
Arthur Schlesinger passed away last night at the age of 89. He was a superb historian, with an amazing command of language, and, more than that, a substantial force in liberal thought over decades of writing and discussion. His work with the Kennedy Administration was highly influential, and his analysis of all of the political machinations since then has opened any number of doors for questioning the wisdom of the status quo in American politics and the philosophies and mores on which it rests.
The WaPo and the NYTimes have vignettes about Schlesinger today — both of which miss any substantial discussion of what, I think at least, was one of Schlesinger's seminal works, The Imperial Presidency. So, for that, I turn to John Dean:
Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.'s The Imperial Presidency gave the term its currency. He traces its growth from George Washington to Richard Nixon, showing how a presidency never contemplated by the founders has evolved. As a basis for their authority, presidents typically cited their role as commander-in-chief — an undefined constitutional term — and "inherited powers" other presidents had used before them.
After Nixon pushed the presidential powers even further than past presidents had, both the Congress and Supreme Court acted to curtail his activities. In the name of protecting national security, Nixon wanted to be able to wiretap without the approval of a judge. The authority for this power? Before the Court of Appeals, Nixon relied on a vague "historical power of the sovereign to preserve itself" and "the inherent power of the President to safeguard the security of the nation."
Later, arguing the issue before the Supreme Court, the government got even more vague — just loosely using the national security contention. In the end, the Court — in the ironically named case United States v. United States Court for the Eastern District of Michigan (which became known as the Keith Case) — said no. Joining the opinion were all of Nixon's own appointees — except William Rehnquist, who recused himself….
Not inaccurately, the Bush presidency has been called imperial, in Schlesinger's sense. The evidence? Its "preemptive" and "preventive" military policy, its contentions that it can go to war regardless of whether Congress approves, its policies calling for American world domination, and its unprecedented blending of national security policy and domestic law enforcement. In my view, these policies and positions not only easily establish the Bush presidency as imperial, they also rank it beyond anything in the annals of the modern American presidency. This may be the most imperial Presidency our history has yet seen.
I've spoken with Arthur Schlesinger about it — asking him if he thought the Bush presidency fit his description of an imperial presidency. In response, he chuckled, and said, "I'd certainly say this is an imperial presidency."
Arthur Schlesinger's wit and wisdom will certainly be missed. The insights that he provided over a lifetime of historical scholarship will continue to illuminate the dark corners of the halls of power. And in that, he will certainly continue for generations to come.



200 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Hello, anybody there?
Hi Christy!
Fitz! Christy!
Hury up jury!!!!
Witty Comic: A Nation Distracted
Oops, I meant “hurry”, I guess I was rushed.
RIP, Art.
this waiting is getting dangerous.
Just wondering how this Supreme Court, in light of Bush v. Gore, would rule in such a case as Keith.
I do not feel comforted when I think about it.
OT, but it totally made me giddy to see my Boris and Natasha graphic on the front page again this morning. Giggling like a (somewhat effeminate) schoolboy.
OnT, we need more like him, that’s for sure.
Interested Observer @ 5
That’s excellent!
“The Age of Jackson” is one of the best and most influential mass-market history books ever written.
Thanks Arthur.
Meanwhile, the George Bush Avoid African Americans in Mississippi Count has reached 23
Alicia @
8
Is there a sudden outbreak of carpal tunnel? Maybe a humorectomy?
Why was Valerie Plame really outed?
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com…..egate.html
it’s ridiculous. My doggie threw up on the carpet in the sun room, but where am I?
here
I wonder of the decision will be today?
I think today is a full moon. Anyone in the courtroom acting extra jumpy?
I lament the passing of Mr. Schlesinger. First Molly, and now Arthur. I’m sad. Again.
Alicia @ 8
The waiting is the hardest part.
- Tom Petty
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 13
Apparently so. Tempers are fraying!
bdu @
10
Thanks for that bdu.
I thought Marcinkowski’s piece deserved the full treatment.
from Christy’s post:
It certainly agree
Alicia @ 8
This is not helpig my OCD. I haven’t gotten dressed in 2 days
I remember on Sunday night some wise commenter mentioned that we could still be waiting for the verdict, having the same conversations, next Sunday.
Just a reminder: we should be on our best behavior for FDLs sake. See late post in the previous thread. We’re all antsy and jumpy – let’s try to be nice to one another and behave in a relatively respectful manner for FDL. WE have a lot of new readers, and we should behave appropriately. I’d hate to see FDL being a target for a MSM hit job like Howie did to HuffPo. Jane, Christy and the whole FDL gang deserve better.
/off soapbox
Lunch is over, where’s the damn verdict?
Personally, I think the jury is using their fancy Post It flip chart to play “Win, Lose or Draw”. Bet they’ll finish up tomorrow, but having learned about the Friday news dump from Cathie Martin will wait until Monday to announce…
Wil @ 25
You’re gonna hyperventilate man, you need to chill a little bit. Breath in deeply, exhale slowly. Inhaaaaaaale. Exhaaaaaaale. Repeat a few more times.
Hey Wil – go get yourself a nice, hot shower. You’ll have at least 15-20 minutes to do it without missing a verdict delivery. I did this earlier – did a nice shower, exfoliated & put on a lot of moisturizer & got dressed in 20 minutes… checked FDL, then dried my hair. Didn’t miss a thing, but I sure feel a lot better!
*xyz @ 23
that’s pure evil, man, pure evil
From AP:
My bold. He won Pulitzers back when they still counted for something. Now Pulitzers are awarded to yellow–and third-rate–journalists.
OT-EPU’D-but it was such a catchy phrase that I want it repeated for all.
Oilfieldguy (#110 previous thread) called the Bush/Cheney Doctrine a Terrorist Multiplier.
I think that 2 word phrase is an apt description and one that should catch on.
I know that I will be working it into any argument that I can.
TERRORIST MULTIPLIER
I have to say that I am getting a tinsy bit concerned about a hung jury. And if this turns out to be the case, the conclusion of the next Libby trial, assuming a refiling, might take us to the end, or perhaps beyond the Bush term.
Did Schlesinger ever comment on the extent to which the Kennedy/Johnson escalation of the war in Viet Nam was “Imperial”?
The Atlanta area is under a Tornado Watch so I visions that the verdict will come in later this afternoon at the same time the sirens go off. After sitting in front of a computer for hours on end, I won’t be happy if I have to head to the basement and leave my computer. Should have fixed my laptop.
My idea is to get behind a Demo nominee who wants peace, environmental focus and who can defeat the conservatives and their neocon offshoots.
LandOftheFree @ 24:
Seconded. Some stuff in the last thread was awful. This waiting is driving everyone batty. As Pach would say: Chill. Take a deep breath. And I would add: Watch silly movies. Play video games. Drink red wine. Have a long leisurely lunch. Make love if you can. If you’re on thread and angry: Don’t click Submit Comment. (I would say: Read a book. But it might be tough to concentrate.)
Maybe so, but Schlesinger disgraced himself in his later years with the disgusing “Disuniting of America.” See my comments here, which are too long for this space.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 34
What’s not to like!
LandOfTheFree @ 28
I went to the community center this morning and did some Pilates, loosened up a bit.
On chilling out while waiting for the jury:
If you don’t want a Hammer of Justice, try this one.
Whiskey Tango-Foxtrot
1 1/2 oz rye whiskey
1/2 oz Aguardiente Cristal
1/2 tsp bar syrup
Three dashes of orange bitters
Juice of one tangelo
Combine ingredients and pour over crushed ice. Garnish with mango.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 32
I think those of us who have been obsessing on this case need to be reminded that while we know the details of this case in and out and have already convicted Libby in our minds, this jury has not been exposed to the details until the last few weeks. They must compress into their deliberations the same info we have had two years to discuss, without the benefit of outside experts to discuss this with them, except those that appeared in the witness stand.
Its a very complex case that must be carefully deliberated. It would be wise to have a modicum of respect for the complexity of the job they have before them. It took me months of reading FDL to wrap my brain around the case and I like to think I have a decent amount of intelligence and can deliberate facts rather quickly. I am encouraged that it is taking a while for these 11 jurors to discuss and suss out the timeline. It makes me think theyre doing exactly what the comment section of FDL has been doing all along. We just got to be cool and wait.
‘It’s Scooter Libby Time, It’s Scooter Libby Time…’
;>)
JPL_ Just so long as you DO head to the basement if the sirens go…Don’t worry, Libby will still be guilty when you get back!
Christy – Thank you for your recognition of Schlesinger; his books and essays on the Kennedys in the late 60’s and early 70’s were a profound influence on me while I was growing up. Also, his work on Jackson (my great to some degree direct uncle; Stonewall is my great to some degree grandfather) is outstanding is still perhaps the best record of that period. At any rate, I think Schlesinger had a far more significant impact on progressive liberalism, of the type that many here subscribe to, than is realized. An important and good man. RIP.
Hah! Thanks for the shout out on my Hammer of Justice!!!
Jeralyn is on MSNBC right now talking about special license plates to identify sex offenders
They are just waiting until Friday so they can do a final happy hour together. Think how much we will all enjoy happy hour if the verdict comes back guilty on Friday.
darkblack @ 41
come to think of it, there is a dash of Clarabelle in Cheney
Jeralyn currently on MSNBC debating some shouting jackass on sex offender spotlighting.
dorothy @
46
They get Fridays off, don’t they?
Schlesinger wrote a very insightful piece for the New York Review of Books, published 23 October 2003, entitled Eyeless in Iraq, in which took apart the so-called “Bush Doctrine” that underpinned the Iraq War. Schesinger carefully distinguished between “preemptive war,” based on an imminent threat, i.e., one involving an attack at any moment, and a “preventive war,” i.e., one predicated on some possible future theat of attack. The first he said was justified under the UN Charter; the second is a war crime. Iraq was of the second variety.
The article is behind a subscription wall now. I remember reading it when it came out. Too bad this clear distinction seems to have largely escaped the Washington establishment, both before and since the war. The fuzzing of this distinction in the public mind was the key propaganda tactic of the pro-war crowd, again, before and since the launch of the Mess-in-Potamia.
Pat @ 49
Nope, not while deliberating.
They had salads for lunch.
I’m still not clear on the wisdom of deliberately selecting jury members who are as ignorant of current events as you can get them. Doesn’t this inevitably lead to the fate of the country being decided by the least interested/educated amoung us?
dorothy @ 46
True but I’d be much happier if they did the big deed today cause a Friday afternoon breaking story doesn’t get the print media’s attention it deserves.
darkblack @
41
Mr. Bob!!
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 40
I’m always pleased when I am pointed in the correct direction. ;0)
Is there a point when the judge will check in to see what’s taking them so long?
I hope the jury fell in love with Fitz not Wells.
Anybody know when Scooter’s birthday is? Maybe we should check his horoscope. The lunar eclipse on Saturday and all… Where’s Mercury these days? I used to have an office mate who knew all this stuff. Now I just sit at home in my pajamas and hit refresh.
Scooter is doody of the unhowdy kind.
-
Awesome, awesome, awesome! Glad to be wrong on this one.
Elliott @ 47
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo! Clarabelle was Bob Keeshan, Captain Kangaroo.
Elliott @ 47
Thet thar’s Scooty Dooty’s best pard, Cowboy Dick.
‘Yee Haw’
;>)
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @40
I like the way you think. That’s good advice.
Christy,
Great post. Sorry to see Mr. Schlesinger pass. He was an intellectual on the national scene that we don’t see many of anymore.
I apologize for getting a little heated on the last thread. I’ll try and do better this time.
Keep up the wonderful work!
Garbo @ 58
see Late Nite thread for spiderpaws comments, starting here
Chady at 56 — Well, since they haven’t even been deliberating for an entire week as yet — on a cae that took multiple weeks to present, we are not even remotely there yet. Patience folks. As I told you guys last week, waiting for a jury can be exhausting…but they have to have time to satisfy themselves that their verdict is just and based on solid evidence and facts. And they shouldn’t be rushed in doing so, no matter how much easier our lives would be if they were.
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 40
Well said. It’s also worth remembering that we’ve been able to take in the implications of this case at our leisure while the jury has more or less been force-fed a lot of details on a fairly compressed schedule. I, personally, am a better learner when I can read, discuss, and interact with materials and get the new information in small doses; data dumps can provoke mental indigestion. Perhaps the same is true for some of the jury. So the case that seems so clear-cut to those of us who have been following the details might be akin to a rather large rat inside a boa constrictor. Its digestion is inevitable, but seems maddeningly slow to us.
My idea is to get behind a Demo nominee who wants peace,: at what cost? Is ‘peace’ worth 10, 20, 100 or 100,000 American lives?
environmental focus: at what cost? To the extent that it cripples the US competetive advantage worldwide, to the extent that it drives up the unemployment rate and costs jobs or to the extent that other concers like the economy, health care and civil rights are compromised?
and who can defeat the conservatives and their neocon offshoots.: of course, unless the necon, conservative proposed the same platforms. Obviously, everyone longs for peace. However, there are different methods of achieving peace. You can appease your enemy, you can kill your enemy or you can align with your enemy. All approaches reach the same goal but in different manners. It is impossible to disagree with your goals as stated, much like it is impossible to disagree with the notion of ‘universal healthcare’; it is just the means of achieving it where there is disagreement.
Garbo @ 58
August 22, 1950
cervantes @ 36:
From the NYTimes obit:
My bold. This contemporary debate is still raging in academia among postcolonial theorists, poststructuralists, postmodernists, literary critics, critical theorists, ethnographers, anthropologists, what have you.
The value of Afrocentrism is also still highly contested in the black academic community.
In the space of ten months we’ve lost John Kenneth Galbraith and now Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
Our Gross National Intelligence has taken a serious hit.
For someone my age (64) this represents the sad passing of an era. An era when intellectual giants were indeed giants and when the public good was actually, on occasion, a considered element in making public policy; due in part to the influence of people like Galbraith and Schlesinger.
Conniptionfit @52 – No, thats a good thing; that way they decide the case only on the evidence presented, which is essential to a constitutionally guaranteed fair trial.
http://online.wsj.com/public/a…..?mod=blogs
Mehlman was the former head of the RNC. He was also an unrelenting apologist for every Bush-Cheney disaster. Why is it that Republicans like Mehlman in office think civility is for chumps but once out of power they bemoan its loss?
LandOfTheFree @ 28
Wonderful advice, I feel much calmer now
Christy @ 65- Thanks for the answer.
I’m worried about the backlash against Fitz. Whatever the verdict, someone will hold him personally responsible for the outcome. The right who loved him when he was first charged with this case now read his rebuttal out of context and have misinterpreted his actions as a personal vendetta against the administration (yes Byron York — I’m talking to you!) It just makes me sick that a dedicated public servant must be subjected to this. He could be making millions at a large firm while working less than 1/2 the hours he puts in now but he chooses to do this work. No wonder people don’t want to go into public service!
HotFlash @
68
Thanks to you and to Punaise@65, I just hit refresh and got my answer. It’s like my very own Easy Button. I may never leave home again.
punaise-Have you ever tried the ‘puns’ down at your local Farmer’s Market? I hear they have great local honey too.
conniptionfit @ 52: ditto. Can’t imagine how anyone could be so disinterested in the world around them…oh! never mind…fearless leader sets the example.
HotFlash @ 68
One day and one year after mine!
Libby’s a Leo..
http://www.hollywoodlegends.com/bert-lahr.html
FiniFiniToobz is right. I’m dying for a verdict, but I do not think we are in hung jury territory. There would be more signs of discord, I think.
cal @ 69
On the shoulders of giants etc. … true dat.
Only I don’t see much actually standing around now, certainly not in comparison.
-
LBrowne @ 67
I like that anology. It could easily take them longer to digest this rat than it did to swallow it. I’ll so do something else for a while. See you guys around 5:00.
But if anything REALLY interesting happens, could you bang on the screen real hard? You know, if I figured I could just go and the news would come over the radio, I’d not feel so tied to the screen. But really, even here in Canada I don’t think they’d say, maybe not eve on the 6 0′clock news half-hour. They did give the ANS verdict while I was driving yesterday. Yuck, I listened to Talk Radio for that?
To Any Of The Courtroom Monitors – Are all the principal lawyers there and what are they doing vis a vis the court staff? Anything?
Semiot @ 50
Oh, but don’t you remember? The threat WAS imminent — and we couldn’t wait for the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.
That’s why the WMD lie was so pernicious. It completely distracted (some) people from the fact that WE were the aggressors.
SharonRB @ 79
spiderpaws had a lot to say about such stuff, much of which I did not understand. If you go top the latenight thread and do a ’search on this page’ for spiderpaws you should get all of it by F3-ing doen.
darkblack @
41
Does Dick have splinters?
The general weekly forecast from astrologer Jonathan Cainer (http:www.cainer.com):
Your Week Ahead
Saturn moves slowly through the sky. It takes around 28 years to complete one cycle of the zodiac. Compared to Neptune, though, it is Speedy Gonzales. This distant outer-planet measures its progress in centuries. Every 36 years or so, the two align in opposition. Whenever they do, structures start to crumble. Established governments lose influence and popularity. Authority figures are called into question. People, meanwhile, become intoxicated by new, wildly idealistic ideas and beliefs. Saturn and Neptune are opposed right now, this very week, and will create this alignment one more time in late June. These are powerful times. History is being made all around us.
Sounds about right to me, no?
LBrowne @ 67
It seems slow to us because we have had the benefit of Christy and Jane, Jerilyn, emptywheel and so many others who have devoted large chunks of their lives to this case for the last couple of years analyzing every micro detail related to the Plame affair. It’s easy for us to lose sight of the fact that the MSM did not devote NEARLY as much time to this case as the blogs have. Any previous exposure the jurors had to the case if any is colored by that lack of exposure to it.
Your slow digestion theory of why it is taking so long for the jury to reach a verdict is the best answer I can endorse for this. If that is the case, then it is in our favor for them to keep deliberating slowly. They can come to only one conclusion if they are being methodical in deliberating this, which with their office supply requests seems to be the case.
Christy, Schlesinger was a great figure. Thank you for remembering him.
Re: jury deliberations. It’s very hard to guess from the outside what’s going on, but I take heart from the language of the jury’s second note from yesterday morning:
“After further discussion, we are clear on what we need to do. No further clarification needed. Thank you. We apologize.”
To me, that just doesn’t sound like a hung jury talking. I’m thinking tomorrow will be a jury in spiffy clothes, Jane in her best good-luck verdict outfit, and happy FDLers.
–
BREAKING: The head of Walter Reed Medical Facility relieved of duty
darkblack @ 42
Apropos of that, DB, I am reminded of another little ditty set to the same tune:
“Ta ra ra boom dee ay
Did you get yours today?
I got mine yesterday,
That’s why I walk this way.”
nyff @ 76
Well, I read his rebuttal in the context of all the closing statements and it seemed to me much more a political diatribe than a legal summation. And on the other hand, I grant, his reputation before all this started was non-partisan. So, if you can do so without getting angry or feeling attacked, can you explain what context you think Fitz’s rebuttal should be taken in?
It’s SUPERFITZ!
(I created both this and the comic at 5). Permission is hereby granted to any and all to use the images in any way you see fit.
Anyone want to bet me a nickel Hotflash wont be able to make it until 5 before checking back?
*S*
What a stormy early morning we had! Eureka almost ended up in Kansas with Toto.
Thanks Christy, It is always nice to get John Deans take on our times and people who lived in the thick of it.
I have not read Schlesinger…maybe someday. RIP
Looks like we are back to slavery. Truthout references this story in the LATimes.
Story here
Hard snow and lightning here in Toronto. Hope power stays on through coming ice storm.
Wil @
25
Wil, I heard (on KO, I think) that this jury likes each other, gets along well.
I’ve never been called to do jury duty, but I would want to do a thorough, good job of it if I were. Maybe they feel the same way. And maybe they like the whole process..they are important. They are a jury of his peers.
Maybe they even think it’s such an obvious GUILTY that if they don’t putz around awhile, they’ll look bad. Who knows!
Darkblack, that’s one for the ages!
solai @ 93
Where? Link?
New Froomkin column up at WaPo if ya’ll need a little distraction. Mostly Korea and Cheney, with a little Scoots. http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..11_pf.html
OT–but quite related:
From AP: Bob Ney reports to federal prison:
We know who might also be reporting to prison at some point soon. I wonder what his inmate No. will be.
Wil @ 100
Walter Reed general loses his command
Its reported on the ABC news site as just a headline:
COMMANDING GENERAL AT WALTER REED ARMY MEDICAL CENTER FIRED AFTER REPORTS OF SUBSTANDARD CARE AND LIVING CONDITIONS
Oilfieldguy @ 87
moe99 @ 92
I’d be a ‘dummy’ to not draw the inferences together here
;>)
MSNBC has it up, but almost no details
Arthur Schlesinger meet Aweful Shitslinger.
-GSD
Joe and Valerie Wilson moving to Santa Fe, reports Politico gossip columnist.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/anneschroeder/
(Maybe they got tired of living in the same neighborhood as Karl Rove?)
Sad to read Schlesinger is dead. Where are the philosophers and thinkers today. There are so few and they never get the merit they deserve. The MSM has brainwashed us to accept mediocracy.
By the way big thank you to EW, Jane, Swapo, Trex, Peterr and all the rest of the FDL regulars. As an “Auslander” I get all my US news from here, Huffpo, C&L and Dependable Renegade (you need at lleast on smile a day). In Berlin we only get CNN International Edition – basic crap!
[Sec of Def] Gates’ comments:
“I endorse the decision by Secretary of the Army Fran Harvey to relieve the Commander of the Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
“The care and welfare of our wounded men and women in uniform demand the highest standard of excellence and commitment that we can muster as a government. When this standard is not met, I will insist on swift and direct corrective action and, where appropriate, accountability up the chain of command.” http://www.defenselink.mil/Rel…..seID=10564
John McCave apologizes for his “wasted” remark on Letterman:
Translation from an oil filter:
The Republican on the job training program for President of The United States has floundered in the shallow end of the gene pool. But eventually we’ll get it right.
Warning: Senator Lieberman on cspan2.. His voice is now more difficult on my ear than fingernails on a chalkboard..
(enter punaise lieber-mantra here)
GSD @ 108
lol
Margot says, “putz around awhile”. Putz around awhile?? This jury has at least one bean counting, anally fixated nit picker. They could have rebuilt the Washington Obelisk in less time. Let’s face it, someone’s got a problem with something. Maybe a couple of the issues went down fast but…..
When oh when will the outrage for this imcompetence lead to a dismissal of those at the very top of the dung heap?
-GSD
Sparkles the Iguana @ 108
Wow, that’s the kind of thing that counts as reasonable gossip at this point? I do believe that was announced abotu 10 weeks ago.
To those waiting glued to their computer screen–If you want to go do other things, you can sign up for Google Alerts with search term “Libby verdict”. I figure when the verdict comes in there will be mad pinging noises from my inbox mail.
Sure sitting here you’ll read the news there’s a verdict at the very first. (Thank you faithful FDL bloggers staffing the trial!) But at least the alert will tell me when to come here and read.
I’ve had a few false alarms from the alert in the middle of some days–there’s usually one or two items daily discussing the lack of verdict so far, or what items the jurors have asked for.
http://www.google.com/alerts?hl=en&t=1
emptywheel @ 117
The Politico’s right on top of things, eh not?
I keep reading all these articles as Cheney trying to talk about his trip as a senior edmin official, and I am not seeing anyone state the obvious reason he did this.
He is so friggin unpopular, and so reviled by most sane people, that he thought that there would be more of a chance that people might pay attention if he spoke as some anonymous functionary.
In other words, the game is that the press and the admin think that people have more confidence in what nameless faceless SAOs say than properly attributed quotes.
Elliott @ 118
In other breaking news, Dangerstein is still shilling for Lieberman.
Wil and others: I think we all have to make a deal to ensure we all take care of ourselves while we’re waiting for the jury to come back. We need to:
- eat regular meals at regular times,
- drink lots of water,
- get away from the computer for a 15 minute time period at least once per hour (stretch our muscles, look down a long hallway or focus our eyes far away to help our vision), and
- take a shower & get into normal clothes by 10am each day.
Any other suggestions?
Margot @ 99
Re: Juror relationships
I don’t have any hard evidence that the jury gets along well, but the fact that they all wore the same T-Shirts on Valentines day, while distasteful, seems to indicate that they have a “team attitude”. Let’s assume that they do.
The jury’s “team attitude” would be significant for at least two reasons:
1. It may explain why the deliberations have gone on so long. If the jurors truly like each other and have a team attitude, then the process of deliberation may be enjoyable for them, or at least not painful. Accordingly, the jury would be less likely to feel compelled to wrap things up quickly and get the heck out of there.
2. It reduces the likelihood of a hung jury. No individual juror is going to want to let down the “team” or their “friends” by disagreeing with the final consensus.
Just my WAG…
cgreen @ 118
Heavens! Who would want to do anything else?!
LandOfTheFree @ 122
Break out the Cuervo at 2:00?
LandOfTheFREE@122, From personal experience may I suggest that there is such a thing as too much popcorn.
Some serious observations about humor.
All most all jokes make fun of an individual or a group. Light-bulb jokes can be used to make fun of almost all groups. Since the FDL community is so large and somewhat diverse, almost all attempts at humor here have a high level of probability of offending someone.
OTOH if it is really funny, even the target of the joke will laugh at the joke. By way of example, I have a dumb-blonde joke ( just 1 ) that even blondes laugh at it. Most jokes lean heavily on the delivery which also makes attempts at blog humor difficult.
Nevertheless, it is worth noting that humor can be used to make the audience think about a serious political topic. Colbert and Stewart are masters at doing this. Virtually no else is in their league.
Instead of amateur jokes here, I recommend spending some of our time waiting by watching Comedy Central videos. A great example is the interviews of Colbert and O’Reilly. Here is one:
http://www.comedycentral.com/m…..large=true
LandOfTheFree @ 122
Jack Daniels and Vali*m?
jk, I took a walk, a much better
conniptionfit @ 53
Or it could lead to a juror being a Christian Fundy, who only reveres the Faux News…
Elliott @ 125
I’m a Jack Daniels man, myself
Emptywheel
What’s going on in the media room?
Wil @ 130
You must not get any colds then.
LandOfTheFree @ 120
Sex.
With or without a partner.
Wil,
Ever tried George Dickel Black label?
Way smoother than Jack.
Warmest thoughts and wishes to Joe and Valerie Wilson, who are probably checking this thread, and are much more concerned with the outcome than any of us.
Oilfieldguy @ 133
I assume you mean for those not at the courthouse! :-)
Bustednuckles @ 134
Ever tried George Dickel Black label?
Way smoother than Jack.
Gets no better than Wild Turkey 101
Bustednuckles @ 133
Ever tried George Dickel Black label?
Way smoother than Jack.
Never seen it, and I used to be a bartender. Will keep an eye out for it, but I usually hang around in pretty scuzzy bars
Folks, we know how to wait — take a deep breath, and relax. From a thread back in January, on waiting for something much different:
* * *
It seems like we’ve been told to wait our entire lives . . .
* Wait until I’m off the phone.
* Wait until that cutie calls you (after you gave out your number at the party last night).
* Wait until the flash goes off on the camera.
* Wait until your mother gets home.
* Wait until the glue dries.
* Wait until you are older.
* Wait until after graduation.
* Wait until you retire.
* Wait until the end of the third month of the pregnancy.
* Wait until the kids are off to college.
* Wait until you are living in your own place.
* Wait until the divorce is final.
* Wait until the airplane comes to a complete stop and the pilot turns off the “fasten seat belts” sign.
* Wait until the end of the month. The end of the quarter. The end of the fiscal year.
* Wait until the hostess raises her fork before you dig into your dessert.
* Wait until you are married.
* Wait until you make partner.
* Wait until you get tenure.
* Wait until next year. (Go Cubs!)
* Wait until all the ballots are counted.
* Wait until the jury returns its verdict.
* Wait until the appeals are exhausted.
* Wait eight hours, until the brisket has finished smoking on the grill. (At least eight hours. Trust me.)
* Wait three months, until the tomatoes are completely ripe.
* Wait ten years, until that that bottle of wine is ready to be opened.
Face it — we do a lot of waiting.
Whiskey must be a guy thaang.
bleecchh
solai @ 93
Temporarily taking charge, is Lt. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley – US Army Surgeon General. According to Dana Priest at the WaPo:
Typical of this Repug Administration to “promote” the guilty. Must be the Repug criteria for getting ahead.
Hugh@72
Because they can. And the fawning media NEVER call them on it.
cgreen @ 116
Thank you!
Peterr @ 139
I’ve been waiting to die my whole life
LandOfTheFree @ 120
- Vali*m is your friend, use it if available
- drink lots of red wine or the alcoholic beverage of your choice
- caffeine is a wonderful substance in moderation, dont overdo it
- unclench your sphincter and relax. This jury is taking its own sweet time and we have for the first time in history gone so far as to have representatves of a virtual, Internet community ACTUALLY SITTING IN THE COURTHOUSE so as to give us a heads up when the verdict comes back. They will have a 15 minute warning given to the other journalists. We will know a verdict is coming 15 minutes later when Jane reports it. Chill out until then.
This is a drive by, so I don’yknow if this has been posted yet
COMMANDING GENERAL AT WALTER REED ARMY MEDICAL CENTER FIRED AFTER REPORTS OF SUBSTANDARD CARE AND LIVING CONDITIONS
http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396
GSD @ 108:
From your amazon link:
Birds of the same feather fly together, as the saying goes.
alright folks, I’m off to a job interview. Would it be wrong to say that I can’t start until the verdict is in?
Mad Dogs @ 140
If you promote the truly guilty, they have a stake in making sure nobody important takes the blame for the wrongdoing.
It’s a despicable practice, but it works.
Okay, I’m finished with work meetings and I’m now ready for the verdict. Someone please pass a note to the jury that it’s okay, now; they don’t need to hold up just for me. They can just do it.
Thanks for waiting, everyone.
The Vast Left Wing Conspiracy: The Untold Story of How Democratic Operatives, Eccentric Billionaires, Liberal Activists, and Assorted Celebrities Tried to Bring Down a President–and Why They’ll Try Even Harder Next Time by Byron York
Alas poor York, we knew he’d shill.
-GSD
Oilfieldguy @ 133
Speaking of sex without partner….I heard Stephanie Miller this AM play clips of Bill O’Liely getting fooled on some letters he got. He actually said the names, “This from Jack Mehoffer….” and “Dick Pinch writes in to say…” They kept playing the clips over and over and I was suprised at how funny that was to me. Guess that teenage boy will be in me no matter how old I get. Ha!
LOL Wil!
Good luck. I hope you have a great interview.
Sunny & blue skies here in L.A. Gonna take the kids somewhere outdoors to burn off some energy (theirs & mine). Hope to come back later and see a party going on…
GSD @ 150
These people have no shame
My birthday is on Saturday :/
Boy, Ann Coulter fans are going to be shocked when they read Marcy’s book. LOL
I normally wouldn’t post this, but y’all have been nice to me and deserve a laugh. Enjoy!
[from Bongo News]
LOS ANGELES — In a rare imposition of an electoral college vote, Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth Academy Awards “victory” for best documentary was downplayed to a “nice try” by judges who instead awarded the Best Documentary to George Bush for his political film, Mounting Mr. Cheney.
The 2000 Popular Vote President was livid about the revised tally after he was declared the winner by most news services. His overheated reaction had a downside however as the planet’s temperature elevated slightly, causing a flock of penguins, already Oscar night partying to Nellie’s “It’s Getting Hot in Here,” to drop dead of heat stroke.
“Me gusta Senor Cheney sin ropa” (I like Mr. Cheney without clothes) was the cry from the late-reporting state of Florida, where Academy Awards Cuban-American judges allowed few African-American voters to influence them.
“We no believe in global warming. We love Ricardo’s global warring and when Senor George takes that piggyback ride on Ricardo in el movie,” added Katrina Harista, Director of the Florida Academy Awards contingent.
Gore, for his part, again acted with equanimity, seeking “to calm the country during this time of strife and climate chaos.”
The World Leader in Carbon Dioxide Loathing said, “My temperature is rising in anger, but Tipper iced me down by tossing me into a snowdrift in the latest Northeast storm. I am now penning my concession speech. Though I despise its non-environmental message, I acknowledge defeat to Mounting Mr. Cheney.”
Upon hearing the Gore announcement, the Bush Administration celebrated by nuking Iran while kidnapping Ahmadinejad so he can star in their new documentary An Inconvenient Idiot.
Wil @ 146
Good luck! I hire people for a living so…I would phrase it simply and businesslike as “I will be available to start two weeks from the date of offer.”
That should give them enough time…
Folks,
How about a nice bottle of red – either Napa or Bordeaux?
Spottswoode or B&H from Napa or Palmer from Margaux!!!
And some fresh grapes and cheese!!
bonkers @ 151
ROTFLMAO
The Politico is still-born: dead on arrival. All those guys who quit WashPo and Time will be looking for jobs soon. They have a sugar-daddy who will soon pull the plug.
Elliott @ 142
I used to do that too. Until I figured out that I actually prefer living my life, depressive wrinkles and all. Near death experiences do wonders for depression. You have to place value on living your life to enjoy it. Until death stares you in the face good and hard you sometimes lose sight of how valuable a heartbeat and pulse really are.
tLandOfTheFree @ 24
This is a great and really important comment. It has already been seconded, but it’s worthy of even more attention and discussion. We’re all here for all sorts of different reasons, but the fact is that this is an extraordinary moment for the truth, the country, the media, citizen journalism, and FDL not only deserves our thanks but also our respect. They’ve been forceful and courageous in order to help all of us, and we’re all in it together, and that doesn’t mention the fact that they’ve been working their asses off.
Like many of us, I’ve had the luxury of taking long breaks while we wait this thing out, and I haven’t read the comments for a couple of days, but I was watching the Lowell Bergman Frontline on journalism over the last couple of nights, and it was obvious that the big thing he missed and the next chapter of the story is what happened on FDL over the last couple of weeks and what’s going on at this very moment. This is where the news has been, live and instantaneous, along with expert and comprehensive commentary.
And in a world where Al Gore’s electric bill turns into a wingnut story after he wins an Oscar, believe me, there will be a day of reckoning with the other side and their machine.
So yeah, why not put the best foot forward? Can’t we huddle up, accept that it’s crunch time, and go out and play our best game when it matters most? It’s winning time!
Idle Speculation #346: They set out to methodically go through the charges, using their fancy post-it method, but got hung up on charge 1 because of the art curator, who tried to bring in the bogus Toensing article to make her case. Once she was gone, they got through the first two charges, but then started to ask questions about charge 3, before figuring it out. Charges 4 & 5 required more art supplies and they’re currently in the process of dealing with those as they did the others.
How complex are 4 & 5 vs 1 & 2?
OrdinaryVanity @ 156
So is mine!
May we call Politico by their real name.
Poltic-ho.
-GSD
Scarecrow @ 150
LOL!
looseheadprop @
146
Whoa! Thanks for some good news, prop.
Kinda makes you wonder, though, if someone higher up the chain of command didn’t tell him, “Quit bugging us about conditions at WR. There’s a war on.”
Politic-ho.
-GSD
Peterr @ 139:
I was also waiting to get to the end of your long line of waits…*g*
Thank you mods for the backup – I always forget to do that star thingy when using the dread V word the spam filter hates.
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 163
I’ll cheer up when the verdict comes back
Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty
I’ll take a bottle of Tattingers, Rose, please.
AZ Matt @ 163
And mine is in 28 days.
obsessed @ 162
Had the exact same thought (sans the Toensing article part). I still find that “sort-of question” they had and then answered themselves as a very encouraging sign. They’re likely going one charge at time. Of course, this could be completely wrong. Funny thing about time…it tells all!
Afternoon project:
Write a nice letter to Bill O. under the nomme de pun “Ms. Faye L. Ophal”
GSD @ 165
ain’t that the truth
My birthday is seven months from today!
What a great time to be self-employed! I’ve been averaging 4-5 hours day at FDL for some time now.
Politico should be referred here as to the link that never gets linked here.
AnnieW @ 156
uh, Ann Coulter fans would have to be “shocked” or tortured in some way before they’d read Marcy’s book.
All-Star Lineup Of Journalists To Champion Sunshine Week ‘07
Tom Brokaw, Ben Bradlee and Judy Woodruff will make the case for open government in public service announcements produced by the Radio & Television News Directors Foundation for Sunshine Week, March 11-17.
Christy,
Thanks for this tribute, and for focusing on Schlesinger’s masterpiece, The Imperial Presidency. I think this book should be required reading for every member of Congress.
Bob in HI
If her fans know how to read.
new thread up top…
GSD @ 151:
That’s a f*cking long title for Byron York’s book, ain’t it?
I’ll be able to call Jane “kid” for a few months anyways.
AnnieW @ 155
Ann Coulter fans can read? Who knew?
Oilfieldguy @ 174
A . . . very merry unbirthday, to you, and you . . .
Woodhall Hollow @ 119
I thought it was as simple as being unable to find anyone willing to say nice things about him. If you read his transcripts, he spends a lot of time praising “Vice President Cheney.” Which makes it really hilarious when he starts slipping back into the first person.
AnnieW @
157
What does Marcy’s book say?
Anything about the fact that knowingly voting in a wrong precinct is a third-degree felony?
To the list of qualifiers for “Imperial Presidency” one must certainly add, “…unprecedented levels of secrecy.”
Who recently asked,”If the government has nothing to hide, why is it hiding everything?”
I’m appalled that Scooter is as old as I am (just a week apart). How could he have gone through the same era and be such a right wing enabler? the Cuban Missile crisis, JFK, MLK and RFK assasinations, the Chicago convention, Kent State, My Lai, Watergate – How could he experience those crisises as a child and young adult and be part of this administration? I assume he didn’t join the military (his draft number was 339), but he had to be worried about the draft like everyone else I knew.
now this is a coincidence 2 b sure..in five years my birthday will be on a saturday TOO!!!
how coincidental is THAT?
Interested Observer @ 96
I like it. I know just where to post it.
Farewell, Mr S. He was a little too dry for me– David Halberstam, Neil Sheehan, those guys put more oomph into it– they were reporters, after all. But A Thousand Days ain’t bad.
creeper @ 169
Whoa! Thanks for some good news, prop.
Kinda makes you wonder, though, if someone higher up the chain of command didn’t tell him, “Quit bugging us about conditions at WR. There’s a war on.”
Considering the Army knowing about the conditions our injured soliders were being housed in dates back to 2003, I guess it’s better late than never. These people really deserve a special place in hell.
Strangely, PBS’s Newshour this evening also failed to mention Schlesingre’s The Imperial Presidency.
No self-censorship there.
Schlesinger was a great writer of fiction.