Well, I'm glad I spent yesterday talking people into coming into Prettyman Courthouse. Because now I have people to hang out with this afternoon, while I'm waiting. Pach is back (he came, I think, to glue down my FDL sign so no cable networks steal our seat again). And my blogmate Kagro X came in, too. So we may be bored, but at least we're bored in good company. Of course anyone who comes has to stay, of course, just on the off chance the jury finishes today.
Unless I completely missed it, the Defense did not eat in the cafeteria today. So I have no idea whether Libby paid for Wells' hamburger today or not. Or whether Libby ate anything more than pretzils. What are we supposed to report on if they don't come eat in the cafeteria.
People have been sneaking outside to enjoy the balmy temperatures (downright hot, this MI girl says!). Spring–and cabin–fever, I guess.
Everyone in the media room is all still wondering WTF the jury note means. I still think that if they had this confusion for the Cooper charge, but not the Russert charge, it's a good sign. But then, we're all talking outtaourarses today.
Jane is wandering around handing out my book to everyone. Good thing to have her here–I'm more of the type away silently type, you know. Plus, she was smart enough to bring her power cord today.
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FITZMAS!
Marcy!
Is it possible I am first? I mean Fitz?
Also: Marcy!
The Waiting or if you prefer: the Original.
Lyrics (Dedicated to Fitz):
Oh baby dont it feel like heaven right now
Dont it feel like somethin from a dream
Yeah Ive never known nothing quite like this
Dont it feel like tonight might never be again
We know better than to try and pretend
Baby no one could have ever told me bout this
The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you see one more card
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part
Well yeah I might have chased a couple of women around
All it ever got me was down
Then there were those that made me feel good
But never as good as I feel right now
Baby youre the only one thats ever known how
To make me wanna live like I wanna live now
The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you see one more ca rd
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part
Dont let it kill you baby, dont let it get to you
Dont let em kill you baby, dont let em get to you
Ill be your breathin heart, Ill be your cryin fool
Dont let this go to far, dont let it get to you
Are we gonna get more details on your Fitz-encounter?
i can wait.
Yayyy!!! Maybe today is it! Go fitz
That is so great that Jane thought to pack a few extra copies to hand out. I am sure you are too humble to show off your excellent work. Good job!!!
Fitz!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:90 to go, right?
Wil @ 10
Yep, 5 pm Eastern.
EPU’d and FYI for any others with the same question:
JGabriel @ 167
How did you meet? Did he say hi first?? Pray tell!
Always interesting to see what the online betting market site Intrade has on the probability of Libby being found guilty. It moved down when the juror was dismissed, but it hasn’t moved in response to today’s developments… it’s still giving odds of about 70-80% chance that Libby gets put away.
We’re all hunched over our laptops waiting anxiously… time to go get some lunch and blow off some of the stress all the waiting is putting in my muscles. I suggest we all take a break, enjoy some fresh air!
Ninety-nine bottles of berr on the wall, ninety-nine bottles of beer, if one of those bottles should happen to fall…
How I spend my time waitng!!!
ew & K-X: party on!
Marcy, did Jane give Fitz a copy of your book? Did she have food in her mouth?
Somebody with credibility here this morning predicted a 3:45 pm EST decision. We’re almost there…
marcy – fabulous book.
today with a verdict would be nice
I CAN’T STAND THIS ANYMORE.
gasp – must.have.verdict
Ed*ard Teller @ 19
6 minutes out, not sure we will make that.
sorry if this was already answered – if it was i totally missed it – sorry
my post from Q part II:
ot (sort of)
have any plans been made for fdl to be back in dc to cover the civil suit? not that this isn’t great – but there’s more to come.
again – thanks to everyone behind the scenes at fdl.
Bad day explanation EPUed on last thread.
pete @
20
I finished it this weeked and agree. What’s coming out next from Vaster? Also, how many copies did Jane hand out?
ok, I definitely want the answer on that one !!!
Can the jury stay beyond 5:00, if with a little extra time they think a verdict can be reached today?
Wil @ 21
Truthfully, I only want a verdict if it is a GOOD verdict.
If it is not a GOOD verdict, I fear the depression will be overwhelming – akin to November 2004 and December 2000.
Fingers crossed that Tweety reads Marcy’s book. Something tells me he’ll give it at least a look, and then get hooked in (or give it to one of his staffers to read & pull out some good quotes).
Wouldn’t it be grand if he/his staffers read it, they saw great info that Marcy unearthed before the trial? Then, after (fingers crossed) Libby is convicted, he has Marcy on Hardball to discuss the details? Oooh, juicy. One word of warning – Marcy might need some ear protection, and possibly even a tarp – something tells me Matthews is both a shouter and a spitter. Hehehe.
OT but sooo deelishioso. I hadn’t seen anything on this until I read it in the Oregonian just a few minutes ago – if it’s been covered to death, forgive me.
I believe the ambassador-wannabe has realized that revenge is best served cold.
You know you have it bad when you are so busy refreshing comments that your french fries get soggy.
yuck.
ohioblue @ 28
Me too.
so true Ohioblue
It’s so strange. To me, anyway. I would have decided on a verdict in a couple of days. Based on the facts presented, and rebut. But then after all, I’m just a ‘kiddo six-pak’. What do I know.
My scrolling finger can’t take much more of this.
I’m from Central OH, and it was very horrible here. I waited for HOURS in the rain to vote, and the morale was so high in Clintonville.
Chady @
27
No! Not without Marcy’s battery power!!!! Please…
Litigatormom #14(last thread)
Thanks for the Clark update. Is it your feeling that he won’t be running?
Chady @
27
No, because then I’d lose power. I can make it to 5, but not much later.
EPU’d from last thread:
Rayne @
174
That’s a deal! Cmon Tweety!
Marcy, I just picked up a copy of your book a couple days ago. B&N had it tucked away in “current events” (I didn’t even know they had a current events section) and I scolded them for hiding it in the stacks when Dinesh D’Souza’s book was right out in front on the recently released table.
Unfortunately(?) they only have one copy left after I bought mine, so they weren’t willing to move it; they’ll wait until they get a new shipment and put that out with new releases.
Jane, you rock! Imagine if all those media types go home tonight, read Marcy’s book, come back tomorrow and start doing some real reporting! (That is, the ones who haven’t been already. David Schuster and Sidney Blumenthal already know what they’re talking about.)
ptrig @ 35
Use your spacebar.
;)
I haven’t left a comment before, but now’s as good a time as any — Just wanted to say thank you to Marcy and everyone else at FDL for the great service they’ve been providing, both during the trial, and in all the preceding procedings. Lurking and loving it.
Nottaflatlander,
The Oregonian?
You around here somewhere?
annx @ 32
me too.
(still taking 10mg lexapro a day going on four years now.)
Schumer fulminating on C-SPAN 2 right now about US Atty firings. Good for him, but hope it leads to something….
jmba @ 8
YES, but I hope she’s selling them – Jane, gotta make money!
This morning there was so much speculation about the attire of the jury. Since cameras are not allowed do you think that it really matters??
The rumor that
I just made upheard was the dismissed juror was found in a broom closet with a pen light in her mouth, a highlighter in one hand and a much dog-eared copy of “Anatomy of Deceit”, the blockbuster Traitorgate manifesto written by the brilliant Marcy Wheeler.I don’t know who starts these rumors, or if they are selling them to the tabloids, forcing the MSM to report on them as well, which might sell some books.
I’m toying with the idea of opening “Mercenary Marketing” as soon as I can figure out how to grow dredlocks on a cueball.
emptywheel:
ShirleySurely someone there has a compatible power supply you could borrow for 30 minutes?neil @
14
I’ve been watching Intrade, too. Glad to see it up around 70-80 betting on at least one guilty verdict.
It’s important to remember that the contract is for at least one guilty. You loose not only for an acquittal, but also for a mistrial (including a hung jury). So it is not surprising that the contract traded as low as 45 momentarily when the art curator was dismissed. Once it was clear that the deliberations were moving forward with 11 jurors, the contract traded back up to about 75, near its all-time high.
Of course, markets like this have a very low trading volume, so don’t take the info too seriously.
emptywheel @ 39
What about Jane’s computer? Can you switch back to it?
JoyB – I’m in Stark County. We were supposed to be the bellwether county for all of Ohio. No Rethug had been elected in 80 years without taking Stark County.
Stark County went for Kerry. I still think the rest of Ohio did too.
CityGirl @ 46
haha. . . schumer do something. funny. good one.
ohioblue @ 28
Nothing will ever match November 2004. It wasn’t the losing. It was that they fell for it again.
Like the sage said, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” [There. I got it right!]
ohioblue @ 53
And I agree. I’m not a natural conspiracy theorist at all, but it was very, very fishy.
Oilfieldguy @ 49
Bald is beautiful!
emptywheel @ 39
And on a less, uh, teleological note — not much. Walton likes to make sure his staff can leave by 5:30, so they can live their lives.
Bustednuckles @ 44
Near NW 23rd & Burnside. Is that “around here?”
LandOfTheFree @
29
He doesn’t spit, just dribbles on his chin like a baby.
Oilfieldguy @
24
Ice storms and downed power lines?
Bad news, no matter what . . .
Since “we’re all talking outtaourarses today,” I thought I’d chime in, too.
If the jury is going to be methodical and come up with their own time-line (a possible explanation for the tape and paper), they might be cross-checking every witness with Scooter’s GJ testimony. I can imagine an entire wall of the deliberation room covered with paper, and them using markers to list the relevant events chronologically. (Since they don’t have the indictment in front of them, making a time-line actually makes good sense — assuming that’s what they’re doing.) And given the centrality of Scooter in all of this, they’re probably re-reading substantial amounts of Libby’s GJ appearance.
In short, maybe yesterday was the first day that they’d actually considering the charges with any specificity. (It would take a couple of days just to re-read Scooter’s GJ appearance, and another couple to recreate a timeline.) I guess I’m making the case that there’s absolutely nothing to read into the jury’s question on Count 3. They might not have decided *any* of the charges at this point.
I actually figured a guilty verdict would be in by now, so I’m trying to explain why in the heck this is taking them so long. Hopefully if he is found guilty, the jurors will come across as knowledgeable and in command of the facts during subsequent media interviews. I sometimes cringe when I hear jurors interviewed on TV after a high-profile case. Even when I agree with them, I sometimes suspect that they didn’t totally understand the case. Hopefully these jurors — assuming a guilty verdict — won’t embarrass themselves.
On the gabbly, we’re setting up scenes and stuff from the movie. It’s madness, madness, madness over there, let me tell you.
One of the funniest scenes so far: Scooter Libby is talking with his lawyers about whether to go on the stand or not. He’s imagining what might happen when Fitz does the cross, how brutal it might be. In the end, he’s sobbing, confessing, “it was me in a bear suit.”
Somebody asked for that as a pic, so I obliged. Hope you enjoy!
Oilfieldguy @ 49
You dont have to grow the dreadlocks, just grow enough hair to attach a dreads weave to your hair.
kml @ 42
Brilliant! Thanks.
What was the denomination to add at the end of a donation to FDL to help support this effort? Was it $0.07.
Hey Marcy, how is your book going over with the media types? I’m ashamed to say I haven’t read it yet, but my understanding is it clobbers the media pretty hard (and they deserve clobbering). So I have to wonder how they’re taking it.
i heart jane @
54
You beat me to it, ihj…
ReneND @ 38
My daughter said that he was coy about it when he was asked by several students. Since I wasn’t there, I don’t know whether he was being Al Gore “coy” (”I have no intention/plans to run”) or “be patient” coy.
He got in late last time, and unlike Gore (who can probably afford to wait until the fall to get in) I think if Clark doesn’t get in soon, he may have a hard time raising money. I don’t know.
I hope, if Clark doesn’t get in, or he gets in and doesn’t get far, that the eventual nominee considers him for a Veep or SecState slot. Can you imagine having a Secretary of State who actually understood world affairs and had balls (figurative, not necessarily physical, balls).
escaped from Middletown Ohio here, not sure how they vote these days, guessing pretty red
See. This is what makes me angry about my party, the Democrats:
Democrats back away from holding war funds
Instead, House leaders hope to embarrass Bush to bring U.S. troops home
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17360370/
Embarrass Bush? The only people embarrassed on this type of thinking are the Democrats.
Damiana @ 41
Don’t publishers pay to get their books on the visible tables? I’m pretty sure they pay to get put on endcaps. In that case, I’m surprised Dinesh was in the Impulse buy section by the registers.
OMG!
I see a future multi millionaire.
This guy is a genius!
Link courtesy of Alternate Brain.
http://alterx.blogspot.com/200…..-next.html
For what it’s worth, Scooter and a gaggle of lawyers were just spotted at the Starbucks at 7th & Indiana, NW. (Just because there seems to have been a question of his culinary activities earlier in the day.)
Notta Flatlander @ 59
I’m in Vancouver.
ptrig @ 65
Oh, good question.
I like to do even numbered donations, so I honestly don’t know.
Jim E. @ 62
A jury this metnodical has already found Libby guilty on the first two counts.
Damiana @ 41
B&N charges publishers for its featured floor space, like advertising.
It would be nice if they actually take your request into consideration and follow through with it, but — to put it politely — I’d be pleasantly surprised.
(Edited to add: I live in NYC. It’s possible the allocation of floor space outside the city is less competitive and Machiavellian than here. Apologies if I’m being unduly cynical.)
Wes Clark should be a lock for the SecDef in any Democratic Administration.
Bill Richardson will be a great Secretary of State, too — assuming they are not the nominee or Veep.
ohioblue @ 18
Still waiting for an answer to these important questions.
Sheldon Whitehouse, new Democratic Senator from RI, and former United States Attorney, is now speaking on the Senate floor about the USAttorney dismissals. Via CSPAN 2 (streaming online):
http://c-span.org/watch/cspan2…..p;Code=CS2
Is that the sound of a jury stirring I hear in the background?
Ed*ard Teller @ 19
Jason Leopold, perchance?
Hey guys.
Still waiting here. Btw, I was too boneheaded to sign my copy of Tweety’s copy of the book. He was right behind me–I thought he was Shuster, who I figured would still be around.
Power cord?
My favorite power chord is the first note of “Won’t Get Fooled Again.”
ck,
As a New Mexican, I pray every night for Richardson to be sec. state. He would be wasted as VP
Oklahoma kiddo @ 70
If they don’t realize by now that Bush and Cheney are both beyond embarrassment, then where on earth have they been hiding for the last six years?
Bustednuckles @ 74
Are you guys getting snow too? The weather is weird up here in the Emerald City today. We just had about 30 seconds of the teensiest hail I’ve ever seen.
How many actual days of testimony were there in this trial?
The note to the judge means at least this: the jury is methodically going through the counts of the indictment, and referring to the jury instructions as they do so. (The question addressed page 74(!) of the instructions, right?) We don’t know how far they are in this process, but it indicates they have some kind of work plan.
Questions are often used by a faction of a jury to persuade another faction that a particular theory or conclusion should be accepted, but this question, I bet, probably was just a point of information.
For sure, it can be seen that this jury wants to be sure what the “rules” are. That would signal that their deliberation is unemotional. Bad omen for the defense.
Dear Marci, over the past few weeks I have become a big fan of you crisp vibrant prose, your trenchant but amusing analysis and the strange reserved power of your u-tube presence. I’m a 54 year old male homosexual and I realize now we are meant to be together. I don’t think I can love anyone else. I hope you feel the same way. As far as the s*x stuff goes, I’m sure the 2 of us can figure something out. Eternally yours.
The Nefarious Leslie @ 86
Exactly.
litigatormom @ 67
We were speculating on this in late night a few nights ago. I said he would make a great National Security Adviser or SecDef. Someone else pointed out a prohibition of former generals being SecDef for ten years after they leave service. No such limit exists for Ntl Sec Adviser though.
He’d be a good Sec of State but I think we have a deep bench of Dems for that particular role. I think Gov Richardson of NM would fit that bill nicely.
swag @ 82
Hey, it was me!!! So what if I was wrong!
litigatormom @ #68,
Clark can’t run and he knows it. He’s tired of jumping through the hoops one has to jump through to make it to the first tier of primary candidates. He’s just too honest and is unwilling to either lie or keep silent about some of his most perceptive observations. He got swatted really bad in January.
JoyB – I think the Secretary of State (Brown) lied/misspoke when he told the Kerry campaign the number of absentee ballots yet to counted in Cuyahoga County. He gave the Kerry campaign a very wrong estimate, Kerry figured all was lost and he conceded.
litigatormom @
68
Wes was interviewed by Amy Goodman last night at 92nd St Y in NYC. Very good interview – this is the report from a Clarkie in attendance:
Wes and Amy at the 92nd St Y
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/11235
Marcy, have you thought of an inscription for the copy of your book to be given to Wells? Perhaps “Madness, Madness, Madness”?
I want Democrats to behave like real Dems. Not like DLC Demos. Damn.
The title of this post put me in the mind of a favorite Talking Heads song from the album Remain in Light:
“Crosseyed and Painless”
——————————
Lost my shape-Trying to act casual!
Can’t stop-I might end up in the hospital
I’m changing my shape-I feel like an accident
They’re back!-To explain their experience
Isn’t it weird/Looks too obscure to me
Wasting away/And that was their policy
I’m ready to leave-I push the fact in front of me
Facts lost-Facts are never what they seem to be
Nothing there!-No information left of any kind
Lifting my head-Looking for danger signs
There was a line/There was a formula
Sharp as a knife/Facts cut a hole in us
There was a line/There was a formula
Sharp as a knife/Facts cut a hole in us
I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…
I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…
I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…
The feeling returns/Whenever we close out eyes
Lifting my head/looking around inside
The island of doubt-It’s like the taste of medicine
Working by hindsight-Got the message from the oxygen
Making a list-Find the cost of opportunity
Doing it right-Facts are useless in emergencies
The feeling returns/Whenever we close out eyes
Lifting my head/Looking around inside.
Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don’t do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don’t stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape
I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…
I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…
I’m still waiting…I’m still waiting…
emptywheel @ 93
Watch it Marcy. You’re in Washington D.C. Admitting wrongness in D.C. isn’t in vogue like it is in a college town…
Shooliganza at 12:58 pm
Maybe you missed the wedding band in the Youtubes?
EW
Right, wrong – it doesn’t matter about the time. I, for one, love you for everything you’ve done over the course of this trial
minnesotamark @ 89
I think their follow-up note, saying they’d answered the question amongst themselves, suggests that your analysis is right.
I’m more interested in Fitz demeanor than what was said. I’m still freaked out at how cheerful Wells was yesterday.
-ck- @ 78
Wes Clark can’t be Secretary of Defense without some kind of special dispensation – the rule is you must be out of the military for 10 years – he got out in 2000. Apparently somebody in the past got this special approval from Congress but I don’t know who it was.
Anyway, Wes is running for POTUS – feel it in my bones – being coy until he jumps in, but most of his supporters are pretty darned near positive he’s running.
ohioblue @ 95
And for that, I am annoyed with Kerry. Honestly, he could have waited.
Damiana @ 87
Just enough to tie up I-5 for the morning commute.
FWIW there’s only two more people still in the verdict pool.
It tried spitting some snow this morning,now just the normal gray drizzle.
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 92
Actually, Richardson would be a nice VP choice as well. Latino Veep with extensive domestic and foreign affairs experience? Sounds muy bueno to me. (PS: Mi familia es de Puerto Rico.)
annx @ 104
Libby’s check cleared.
Okay, never been on a jury so that makes me an expert, right? Here goes:
If anyone on the jury believed that he didn’t lie, time after time, just “misremembered”, they would have said so at the outset of deliberations. And supporting that theory so goes against normal human experiences of normal people that it’s not likely. Remember HL Mencken’s quote: It is hard to believe that a man is telling the truth when you know that you would lie if you were in his place.
I think they are trying to approach the deliberations with the same care and concern as the FBI did with the interviews and Fitz did in bringing the indictments, out of respect for the process that Fitz kept saying was so important to our system.
Therefore, GUILTY as charged!
Wil, is Middletown in Hamilton county? I think the Cincy area is very red. After all they elected Mean Jean Schmidt twice!
The Bush/Cheney defenders continually push the idea that they need to do a better job of explaining, that their detractors simply don’t understand. This always brings me back to the recurring line in the old black and white Perry Mason series, “Oh, I understand, I just disagree.”
It is not about salsemanship. It is about the horrifying realization by a weary nation that somehow the Presidency has fallen into the category of some slow-motion on the job training program.
Each and every policy decision viewed by this administration as a woopsy-daisey has resulted in death and destruction.
We understand, we just disagree. Troops home now.
annx @
104
Wells is probably buoyed by all the people who told him “not to worry” because “he had a lousy hand” to play. His prospects for future employment are, no doubt, his biggest concern. I think he feels now that a loss will not impact him terribly.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 111
The press is there.
It’s about Business. Wells prospective clients want to know he’ll believe them (or at least pretend to) and fight right up until it’s completely over.
A smile of confidence is his publicity.
ohioblue @ 113
Butler County. I am from Middletown.
emptywheel @ 93
First brew’s on you. ;-)
…go check out Blue Dog art while you wait…www.georgerodrigue.com/currentsilkscreens.htm
Oklahoma kiddo @ 70
I guess this is a good enough seque for something I want to insert in the thread …..
Aaron Russo, director of “America: Freedom to Fascism” encourages us to be neither good Democrats nor good Republicans, but rather good Americans.
You should check out his movie! Also check out his endorsement for Presidential candidate, Ron Paul.
ptrig @
107
I thought a butterfly turning right instead of left in central Mexico was enough to screw up Seattle’s I-5 morning commute. #1,112 on my list of reasons for leaving Seattle for Alaska 34 years ago.
Bustedknuckles@72 – Need that device FedExed immediately! Way cool!
egregious @ 117
that is a small, small world. It ls Butler. My Da is Middletown, Mom is from Versailles
All that this “embarassment” business coming out in the House by the Democrats, about a funding cutoff for Iraq, accomplishes, is to tell Cheney, Rove, and the neocons that my party remains intimidated and afraid. I am starting to contemplate being angry at my party. Again.
Wil @
85
hi – NY here – i’m starting to feel strongly about supporting him – do you like him for prez?
Wil @ 102
And in DC, everyone gets to “revise and extend their remarks.”
Unless of course, you’re talking to a grand jury or the FBI. In that case, you better get it right fast.
ptrig @ 107
PDXers: Sun is streaming in my window here on the west side. Just went out for a smoke and it was pretty nice. Was snowing earlier. I can see dark gray clouds over The Coov. (16th floor on Kings Hill – I can see everything)
Scooby-Doo moment. Sen. Clinton has the gavel for the floor speeches (C-SPAN 2). The Senators are calling her “Madame President.”
annx @ 104
Don’t forget, this guy cries on cue.
Wil, do I know you? Teddies 66, Middies 69.
Oh, and BAND. piccolo.
Peterr @ 126
I meant the time of the verdict, but see your point
EDITED BY SITE OWNER
Wil @ 85
I’m not trying to be argumentative – just curious. Since I don’t live in NM, I don’t hear much about Richardson. Why do you think he would make a good Sec of State?
emptywheel @ 93
Well, as long as we’re attacking Marcy, it’s “pretzel.”
Set to an XFiles fan vid, but whatever, the song feels appropriate…
The Devlins- Waiting
Some might remember it from the first episode of Six Feet Under.
Hey emptywheel
Even if you make 70 incorrect predictions about the time the jury’s verdict is coming in your credibility wih me is unassailable.
Let’s try this again.
Ptrig@107 and Damiana@87, we’re in Duvall and have about two inches of snow now. It’s still coming down as well.
-S
Oh, and by the way, Jane referred to me as a “kid” once. Come to find out, we are the same age.
So what do you have to say for yourself young lady? These whippersnappers, I tell ya.
West @ 133
Don’t find out anything that would cause a problem!!!!
Wil my dad was city prosecutor back in the day. That’s pretty much enough to keep me off of juries :)
annx @ 114,
I think Wells may have been happy to exclude the alternate as replacement for the art curator, becuase all reports seem to indicated that at least one of the two alternates appeared quite unsympathetic to the defense.
Also, Wells didn’t get great reviews for his sob routine at the close, and his forehead in hand dejected look.
-ck- @ 78
He can’t be Secretary of Defense until he’s been out of the military for 10 years and that won’t be the case by 2009. I learned that on DU.
Notta Flatlander @ 128
I’ll bet you get some awesome sunset views of Mt. Hood.
egregious @ 131
I don’t think so, I was pretty young
Hey it was worth a shot. Your dad still in town?
Plus, I have an enormous family. Maybe you overlap w them. Or if you ever played football as a kid, you are on one of my dad’s lists :)
West @ 133
No, no, NO. Not a good idea. Leave the jury alone! I am on pins and needles but I can wait.
JoyB @ 106
Repug Kenneth Blackwell Blackwell Blackwell! was the OHsecystate who did that dastardly deed.
Brown, Sherrod Brown (Dem. – GOODGUY!) was in the U.S.House, & is now U.S. Senator from OH, elected 11/06.
What planet are you on?
WASHINGTON — Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke told Congress on Wednesday that the administration and federal regulators are closely monitoring financial markets in the wake of the biggest sell-off in stock prices in more than five years but so far the markets appear to be “working well.”
Working well? I’ll just bet they are. Working well for who, exactly?
Oilfieldguy @ 139
Same age here but I look and feel twenty years older.
West @ 133
West,
I know you mean well, but
please, for the love of Fitz, DON’T. Any publicity regarding a juror’s identity, any public disclosure, could lead to an unfortunate incident and the disqualification of said juror. And that, directly or or eventually, could well mean a mistrial, the very last thing we want. So if you can, stifle your curiousity for a few days longer, and tell us all about her when the verdict comes in.
West @ 133
I wonder if Walton instructed the jurors not to tell people that they were on the jury. The George Ryan jurors were not supposed to, and one of them talked to the guy who ran a coffee kiosk at her train station, and then a guy who had talked to her, called a call-in radio show and talked about her. She got booted, and it nearly caused a mistrial.
Another vantage point …..
“The first month of your year 2007 has seen hyperactivity in many quarters, about which even mainstream media could not fail to inform you. Again, or rather still, the world’s attention is riveted on the United States government as the two major political parties are joining hands across the aisle in opposition to President Bush’s determination to escalate the war in Iraq. As some of you have questioned in emails to my mother, and many millions around the world are questioning as well: Why is Bush insistent on sending more troops when there are national protests and even many in his own party are against him?
Although Bush does agree with the escalation, and despite his saying that he is the decision-maker, it is not his decision—it is the decision of the Illuminati members who are more powerful than he and from whom he takes orders. They cannot de-escalate that war and still follow through with their intended next step, extending the warfront into Iran, and from there to the rest of the Mideast with Israel’s continued assistance. Please note that I said it is their “intended” next step, and it may be that some troops are ordered to make incursions into Iran, but their full-scale war will not happen. On the contrary, this year will see the winding down of international warfare in the Mideast and the withdrawal of combat and occupational troops.
Please remember that often in messages I have stated that any attempt to start a nuclear war will be thwarted by our space family’s technology that has caused the failure of numerous “black ops” major terrorist efforts. Those attempts—they were not meant to be futile!—came right after the “intelligence” that sent the United States into “red alert” status. Perhaps you have noticed that since the “black ops” effort to explode airliners departing from England was so clumsily botched and the fear-filled cover-up story was exposed as scientifically impossible, the rainbow alert system has been quiet. At any rate, along with the assurance that by Creator’s decree, there will be NO nuclear war, the combination of the ever-increasing intensity of the light and the momentum in Earth’s energy field of potential has reached the point of no return, meaning that the Illuminati plans for not only the entire Mideast, but the whole world, are fatally dashed.”
Matthew’s message of Feb. 3, 2007
West @ 133: Jurors need to stay anonymous. Please don’t do any sleuthing or reporting that would jeopardize that.
Mikey @ 134
Former Amb to the UN, respected enought that foreign leaders will come to this hellsole of a state o discuss policy (read the N Korean delegation a while back) He is almost as respected as Carter, from what I’ve read
Shooliganza @ 90
Double wedding! You two and litagatormom and Fitz!
And I do realize these may be fightin’ words. Heh.
Ron Paul had the greatest idea after 9/11 for how to get Bin Laden that got totally ignored. He suggested we place a Letter of Marque and Reprisal on Bin Laden with a bounty of $1 billion. Thats an amount even the most hardened Wahhabist would have to take and grab Bin Laden for us. It also would have saved us billions of dollars fighting the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. And, Letters of Marque and Reprisal are Constitutional methods of dealing with our nation’s enemies.
such as what??
I don’t plan on giving out her name or anything… just curious about her, what she does for a living and so forth.
I’ll just wait till after the verdict
West @ 133
NOOOOOOOO
JURY TAMPERING DON’T DO IT
West @ 133
Is she related to a Bacon?
annx @ 147
EXACTLY
valletta @ 112
He also said: The penalty for laughing in a courtroom is six months in jail; if it were not for this penalty, the jury would never hear the evidence.
The only jury I ever served on was a drug case. By the time we went to deliberate I was sure we all felt the same way. We decided to take a vote right off the bat just to see where we stood. First vote 6-6.
JoyB @ 106
Yes, I was shocked out of my mind when he conceded. My daughter cried for two days.
I would like a “I will not concede in states where the election is still in doubt,” blood oath from the next Dem presidential nominee before I give one red cent to the campaign.
IIRC the Dems had hoards of lawyers in Cleveland just waiting to contest. Then nothing! I don’t ever want to go through that again.
West @ 158
Thanks West. Good on ya.
Oh, man…how long has this thread been up? No wonder there was nothing on III.
Hey, Kagro. Glad you’re there to keep the girls company.
At first flash of eden, we race down to the sea.
Standing there on freedoms shore.
Waiting for the sun
Waiting for the sun
Waiting for the sun
Can you feel it now that spring has come.
And its time to live in the scattered sun.
Waiting for the sun
Waiting…. waiting…. waiting…. waiting….
Waiting for you to – come along
Waiting for you to – hear my song
Waiting for you to – come along
Waiting for you to – tell me what went wrong
This is the strangest life Ive ever known.
Mr. Mojo Risin
educatedplaintiff @ 125
He’s becoming my second choice if Gore really doesn’t run. I think he’s highly qualified and people need to learn more about him. I think he’s the dark horse candidate.
annx @ 147
NO! Please dont even think of it! We can be patient! Even the mere mention of it feeds the trolls!
It’s not the age, it’s the mileage.
jesus…. wish I never mentioned it
mods… delete my posts if you don’t mind
I went to NM as a Boy Scout – I didn’t think it was a “hellhole”. :-)
Thanks, I had forgotten about his tenure at the UN.
egregious @ 146
We’re an ARMCO family, good old fashioned Hungarians. Not sure if family names are appropriate, but my grandma was one of 10 kids
Adie @ 148
I should have corrected that myself, Adie. I’m very aware of Kenneth Blackheart. Adie is right, Kenneth Blackwell.
Bionic @ 156
Gavin Newsom can perform the double wedding.
Strategerie @ 138
Yeesh! I’m only a few miles west and south of you–I work at a Large Software Company–and although we’ve had a bit of snow here and there, nothing is sticking. However, my daughter is just a couple miles north of here at school, and it’s been snowing and sticking there for well over an hour now.
Welcome to the Greater Seattle Area. If you like the weather, wait an hour. If you don’t like the weather, wait an hour.
MODS—is this worth an email to West? We totally don’t want anything to become public about the jury.
SharonRB @ 143
SharonRB @ 143
Sharon, you need to go K&R my Hannity thread on DU.
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 157
I think this is a complete misreading of human beings. Some people cannot be bought.
Doesn’t “The Jury” know Jane wore her verdict dress?
Notta Flatlander @ 167
lol – very bizarre combo – morrison w/ this trial
Leaders of my party: the closer we get to Nov. 2008, the more fire I’m going to breathe.
whew, thanks JoyB! 174
I think this is a complete misreading of human beings. Some people cannot be bought.
But can they be rented?
West @ 158
Good!
stephanie @
153
Sadly, makes as much sense as anything one hears on “Meet the Press,” for example…
Mikey @ 172
living here is a whole different story
I think my keyboard is dying, I actually do know how to type, it’s dropping letters
Hey, Swag! Where is it?
bliekker @ 184
Open the yellow pages — right under Escorts
:-)
Wil @ 173
Mother and grandfather worked at Armco. I mean doesn’t everybody?
I am one of the only people on fdl that have a great story about Hungarians in Middletown.
[ok now that I have your attention :)
My parents’ friend Eileen Weidel Roney was a violinist who tried out for the Cincinnati Symphony during WWII. She was given one familiar piece to play, and one very obscure piece to sightread.
Well, the obscure piece was Hungarian. But she knew a family that was Hungarian and they had shared violin music with her, and she knew the piece very well! So she got the position.
If you are this family I will just faint.
And there is a little more to the story if you are.
mods,
i’m pretty old fashioned, so need you to look at 90, please
Hey, about time to be EPU’d… so do any of you beagle legals care to speculate about how tomorrow’s eclipse of the moon (full, natch) will affect the jury?
Am I alone in thinking that the fact that the jury answered its own question without assistance from the court is a good sign for getting this wrapped up soon? If the Cooper charge is the most difficult one, and if the jury is getting its collective head wrapped around that question today, then they must be close to… something. Probably. Right?
Otherwise, I agree that if the Cooper charge was the last one on the jury’s plate; and if the jury is spending considerable time and effort on that charge; then that is a good sign for the government.
I’M READY FOR FITZMAS, SANTA!
? Wouldn’t you want to Strousroup it at least?
just got my daily cspan –
tomorrow on “washington journal”:
Joe Conason, Author, “It Can Happen Here”
ck your local listings
Bionic @ 156
*laughter*
At this point I think both Marcy and Fitz could have the harem of their choice. And I, for one, would like to state for the record that I share my toys and play well with others. *ahem*
This reminds me of a discussion I had with friends over the proper way to turn “harem” into a verb.
Jane or Marcy,
Would you thank Tweety (yes I said that) for his coverage of this trial – we’ve always been hard on him and I believe his interest is narcissistic, but it is good to have the coverage.
bliekker @ 184
I believe this to be true. You think a poor guy in al quaeda training from Yemen or something if he caught wind of a $1 BILLION bounty for Bin laden wouldn’t turn him in? Or hell, it even becomes cost effective at this level for a wingnut millionaire to hire Blackwater to go get him. Hell, Blackwater would go after him on their own for that bounty.
Joy, if I scared you off of gabbly I wasn’t being personal… I didn’t know either….
I’m expecting a verdict tomorrow. So I, too, want to wear a ‘Let’s Celebrate’ outfit. Just not sure what one would look like.
Adie – sorry I blocked on Blackwell’s name, for good reason. I was not referring to Sherrod Brown. I voted for him – he is one of the most progressive members of the US Senate.
I hope I never see Blackwell’s name on a ballot again as long as I live. I even hope the good Cincy people never elect him to anything but dog catcher again.
Diane @ 197
And then tell him his constant obsession with Bill Clinton’s peenis is sickening, and he should either knock it off or start giving equal slurps to Rudy Giuliani’s wang.
I thought there was already a million dollar reward for Osama?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 70
Agreed. How can you possibly embarrass Bush? If he isn’t embarrassed by himself, then nothing will embarrass him.
The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topt…../laden.htm
egregious @ 190
The family name is so close, it’s scary. My G. Grandma was a concert violinist, but played under her maiden name, Ana Meyer
Wil @ 173
Wasn’t John Havlchek (sp?) from Middletown?
ccmask @ 202
IIRC, 25 million.
SharonRB @ 188
It’s on Greatest (and in GD). It’s puerile, mind you, but sometimes Jesus’ General just makes life seem so much more worthwhile. No, don’t K&R it.
Just really wanted to shout out, and say that I hope we can have a drink again some time soon.
enough with the yelling
Oklahoma Kiddo: It’s the “slow bleed” slander the Republicans are using against Murtha. But still, the Democrats should just ignore the GOP and hold the vote. Make the GOP say, yet again, that they back Bush’s war.
ccmask @ 203
I think Mel Gibson has a $5 million dollar reward. What Ron Paul suggested and that I agree with is a $1 Billion reward. Billion, with a B.
This work thing is trying my patience. Don’t they realize I have other interests?
Back l8ter.
sherrod brown lost me when he voted for the MCA (torture, indefinite detention and kagaroo courts)…. he has a lot of amends to make before i will ever think well of him – let alone contribute to his campaign.
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 198
I’m not entirely convinced that it would be wise to give a billion dollars to anyone in a position to turn in or capture bin Laden. Much as I want the bastard to be served some kind of justice, I have serious concerns about how his betrayer would use the funds.
I mean, a billions dollars, that’s a *lot* of money. One could do some serious damge with that, were one so inclined.
And besides, all your base are belong to us.
Bustednuckles @ 207
There would just be the slight problem of living long enough to collect/spend it. :-(
new thread
ccmask @ 203
25 Million. Actually.
John J. Havlicek (born April 8, 1940 in Martins Ferry, Ohio) is a former professional basketball player who competed for 16 seasons with the Boston Celtics, winning eight NBA titles, half of them coming in his first four seasons. In the NBA, only teammates Bill Russell and Sam Jones won more championship rings during their playing careers. He is considered one of the best NBA players in history, especially on defense, and was inducted as a member of the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1984. He was a three sport star at Bridgeport High School and one of his boyhood friends was Baseball Hall of Fame pitcher Phil Niekro.
West at 158 — You should know that if you go digging for information about individual juror’s identities, and Judge Walton finds out about it, he will absolutely hold your butt in contempt. The judge is not a man who puts up with stuff that happens around the edges — and digging into juror information, unless they, themselves, want it known they were on the jury and, by some overt act (like contacting the press and volunteering themselves for the Today Show or something) put themselves out front. Judges do not like anyone doing anything that smacks of trying to pry into the jury process. FWIW, I’ve seen a judge ream someone out for trying to do something like that. Thought you’d want to know that the jury process is considered off limits, including personal information about the jurors, but just about every judge I’ve ever known. And I can’t imagine that Judge Walton is any different — especially while deliberations are ongoing, because that could be perceived as a threat or an attempt to coerce the decisionmaking process in some way.
So just don’t do it.
Well, it’s getting late, folks. I’m guessing that Jane will have time to go shopping for a new verdict-day dress.
Of course I don’t believe he is alive.
There are some ethnic and religious groups in the world that have been subjected to ruthless (over decades and centuries) racism, religious prejudice, and subjugation. Yet a few of these very same oppressed people end up practicing the same evil. Why?
solai @ 200
Well, since I’ll be at home here in AZ, where “winter” isn’t as cold as elsewhere, and where we have venetian blinds on the house, my notion of a “Let’s Celebrate” outfit is “birthday suit.”
Dancing around the house! Celebrating justice and the oncoming lunar eclipse! Sounds reasonable, no?
While we are waiting…and this is already a long thread, but the defense in its closing referred to Libby as ‘National Security Advisor’, did this strike anybody else as a lie???
First time poster – long time lurker.
Without wishing to count any chickens etc. the common assumption here seems to be that a guilty verdict would then lead to a potential plea-bargaining session, with Fitz using the leverage of a lengthy sentence to prise out incriminatory testimony from Libby. This would be countered on the defence side by the appeals process and the potential for a Presidential pardon down the line, encouraging Libby to keep his lips wide shut.
But is it possible that Fitz doesn’t need Libby to turn States evidence, and that despite the “sand in the eyes” he already has a case ready to make against (we presume) Cheney. He only needs a conviction for perjury against Libby because it undermines any possible defence that Cheney could make which depends on testimony from Libby as a witness.
And if that’s the true he can launch the main event straight away can’t he?
By the way the suggestion at #133 doesn’t sound like a very good idea to me under the current circumstances….
Crazy Horse, The lunar eclipse is on March 3rd; the verdict will be in before then.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 224
They are so damaged that they loose the ability to feel empathy for others. I’ve seen it happen to horrifically abused kids.
Rumor has it Dick Cheney is going through a full range of emotions today awaiting the verdict just like everyone else.
Wil @ 85
I agree! Richardson definitely has a lot to offer.
Notta Flatlander @ 216
Move zig, For Great Justice!
One million is not one billion, not even for large values of one million.
/seriously math geekish humor
swag @ 209
I found it. I can’t believe those pics of Hannity. What a riot!
It would be fun to have a drink again sometime soon. Are you coming to YKos?
Middletown folks – Looks like John Havlicek was not from Middletown. Who was the early 60s OSU star from Middletown?
Damiana @ 176
Or you can just head over the next hill. I work at Large University. Nothing but spit and drizzle here. Maybe Chris Matthews is about town.
Wil maybe its Weidle. I’m just using phonetic spelling. They think the grandmother was related to a high Hungarian family that didn’t choose to acknowledge her existence if you follow my drift.
Fitzmas @ 229
How can you tell? Has anyone been shot in the face?
Adie @ 183
Pat_AlexVA @ 199
Not at all!
ohioblue @ 234
Jerry Lucas?
EllenG @ 204
Couldn’t agree with you more, EllenG.
hope this isn’t absurdly redundant…
but after six years of Cheney/Bush – and exposure to Cheney’s pathology from his Capitol office -
seems Congressional Dems still don’t get it.
Bush/Cheney can’t feel embarrassment – they’re sociopaths.
And Congressional Dem Leaders still demonstrate they don’t comprehend.
What else don’t they comprehend?
Oh, yes – they don’t understand why people don’t vote – or join the Greens – or …..
Crazy Horse @
192
The lunar eclipse you mentioned will occur this Saturday; those of us in the eastern United States will see the eclipse already in progress as the moon rises.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 221
I think he got the message 20 times over. Lighten up guys.
Wil @ 187
Hey! I live here and love it! Sunny days, blue skies, mountains, rivers… cultcha and conscious people in Santa Fe… what’s not to like?
yeah.. dumb move… never should have mentioned it
point taken
JohnDrake (227) — welcome to the Lake, thanks for piping up. I think you’re right, although this trial may have been a fishing expedition for both sides, not just Fitz and not just to impeach Cheney’s firewall. Cheney has a much better idea what cards Fitz is holding.
And Fitz being very cautious and thorough, might still wait for more evidence, or perhaps for the civil suit to shake out more info.
heather at 242 — Sorry, was playing with my three year old for the first time all day today since she got home from preschool, hopped back into the thread to see where we were with verdict watch, and saw the post. Thought I should, as an officer of court, let people know this was a bad idea and a crime in most states. My bad that I didn’t just hang in the thread, ignore my child, and keep my mouth shut before I aided West in making a very big mistake, I suppose.
cc in nm @ 243
crappy economy, shitty public health, racism…
SharonRB @ 233
No, won’t be a YK, but sounds fun. Give a full report, ‘kay?
egregious @ 236
she was a tramp, there are family rumors of illigetimate kids
Notta Flatlander @
232
However, one billion is an ill-defined number:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion
/more math geekism
West at 244 — No problem — most people don’t think about that sort of thing being a problem because they haven’t been around the court system, and have no idea how important an inviolate jury process is. Judges are REALLY touchy about this sort of thing, and I know that folks are reading these threads at the courthouse, so I did not want what you said to be misconstrued in any way — thought I should give you a chance to clarify just in case, so there was no misunderstanding.
for all I know my father could have been bullshitting me
Wil @
85
How about Sec. Interior! Isn’t he the most progressive environmental policy govs in the country? This is based on recall from a few years back. Sooner (hopefully) or later that position will be paramount.
State’s importance is significant in large part because of the extreme foreign policy f-ups of the past 6 years.
Until we get our own house in order (land/resource use and preservation, far-sighted environment protection, preparation for rising sea-levels…) we’ll just be an arrogant superpower. Trust me, I’d love nothing more than for us to regain some love, respect and trust from the rest of the world, but I believe a dynamic and patriotic Interior Secretary could do a lot to shifting priorities among the citizenry from foreign fear and distrust to domestic pride. Richardson seems to be a politician w/ integrity to his politics and values in this regards.
I could easily Google Richardson for some facts to back up my impression of him, but I can’t get away from you awesome people on FDL. Help me. I need a life.
Wil @ 249
Well then, I know several of your cousins :)
chaboard @ 250
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion
/more math geekism
True. But… the ill-defined literal ‘billion’ covers a domain of order two, yes? The statement is true in both cases, yes?
/Aint we got fun?
update: I probably should have looked at the wiki entry to be sure about the order two thing before posting but I'm willing to bet on my memory being good hereAaaand that explains why they were there to share violin music with her……
sorry crew, i’d read that it’s Thurs nite here in Germany, which of course bleeds into Friday as for us it’s from 10pm until 2 or so. i was just trying to lighten the tension, for the decision in this case, as the emotional level of the pups here prove, is so absolutely all-encompassing.
Trust me. When Libby reaches in his pocket to pay for Wells’ lunch burger, all that it means is that Barbara Comstock’s defense fund is not going to get a bill from Wells for the burger…. (which it would, if Wells had reached in his pocket).
Wil you still here? Grandma Weidle lived to be well over 100. I think this is a great story, hope to followup with you.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 246
Need more backup for the principals.
Not for the principles, got that covered :)
Welcome first time poster JohnDrake! Please chime in again soon.
egr, isn’t it amazing that the web is more than just bits and bytes? There’s some kind of human interaction behind it all?
Christy Hardin Smith @
246
I just felt bad for West. That’s all.
heather @ 263
I think it’s Christy you should have “felt bad” for. She’s done a humongous job keeping this site going along with making very insightful and helpful posts. I don’t think anyone should criticize her for anything, frankly. It’s her house.
heather at 263 — Sorry, I took that a step too far with you. Am having a crap day, and I shouldn’t let it seep into the threads. My apologies.
PatVa @
264
Well I didn’t. I felt bad for West–he had apologized four times, admitted that he had made a mistake and even asked the mods to delete his posts. Even after that people kept telling him no no no…so I asked the community to lighten up using Christy’s post as the last straw.
Way down here in EPU land.
Wil, your ancestor wasn’t a tramp. She was an artist way ahead of her time.
I think Jerry Lucas must have been the OSU player from Middletown?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 265
thanks. i appreciate it. you guys are great.
btw, i hope you all noticed that i tried way above with a bit of humor to defuse the juror bruhaha before it happened. i hope all’s resolved. i did think humor would obviate the obvious.