
(AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)
I'm at the courthouse, and as Christy said in her update, one of the jurors was exposed to media coverage of the trial. Nobody really expected anything early this morning, so everyone is scrambling into the media room to try and figure out what's going on. Both teams are in the courtroom, and Fitzgerald, Wells, Jeffress and the judge are back with the jurors. Lots of finger drumming, toe tapping and leg swinging on the part of those left waiting. I'm sure the message from the judge to come back to court this morning was like a tazer jolt to everyone's already jangled nerves this morning.
What does this all mean? Well I, like everyone else, look to Christy:
They will voir dire the juror in question, as well as all of the members of the jury to see what that juror saw and what, if any, impact it had in deliberations. It could be as innocuous as seeing a headline.
I'm wondering if this is a product of the Toensing nullification argument special in the WaPo, to be perfectly honest.
Once they go through the discussion with the jurors on the record, there will be some determination made as to whether or not there is a substantial impact on the jury deliberations — or whether there is cause for a mistrial. If a mistrial is declared, they will have to retry the whole case.
What is more likely is that the judge will determine that what the juror saw did not have a substantial impact. Judge Walton will then admonish the jury not to have contact with media — period. He may decide to sequester the jury from here on out. He will likely issue a cautionary instruction on how this should or should not enter the jury room. But we'll have to see what the level of exposure was to know what will happen.
And now we wait.
Toensing/WaPo jury tampering article can be found
here.
10:45
Everyone is filing back into court — Wells, Jeffress, Fitzgerald and his poker face.
Walton in the courtroom, calls everyone to the bench.
Walton: One juror has now been dismissed based upon the knowledge of her part that she did have information based on this case. It wasn't intentional, but what she had exposure to disqualifies her from further deliberations of this case, so I need to know what counsel's position is as to how to proceed.
Wells: It is the position of defense that jury deliberation should continue with a jury of 11 and that at this juncture an alternate should not be put onto the jury, because as we understand it if a new juror is appointed they must start deliberations all over again which is something in our opinion would be prejudicial to Mr. Libby. That would be a jury of 11. If we have a situation that for some reason another juror is lost, it is such that we would be left down to 10 and we believe your honor would have the ability to appoint the alternates in, so we're not on the "cliff of a mistrial." Don't want to throw away 2 1/2 days of deliberations when these jurors are obviously making their way through the charges, and would be highly unfair to Mr. Libby.
FitZ: The gov't would prefer 12 jurors. If you're going to replace jurors anew that it's preferable to do it after 2 1/2 days of deliberation. We think there is a preference for 12 jurors and we think there is a risk that if someone gets ill we get into dangerous territory of 11 jurors.
Walton: Don't think there is any reason to believe this jury was irresponsible — info from juror did not taint the others. They have deliberated for 2 1/2 days, don't want to throw away that work. If something does unforseeably happen to another juror then we sill have the option of recalling the alternates. I did tell them before they left they should continue to not let themselves be exposed to this case from outside sources. So rather than throw away the 2 1/2 days devoted to this effort, I will allow them to continue their deliberations.
(jury filed back in)
Walton: The law does now allow you to continue your deliberations with 11 jururs, so that's what I'm going to do. Let me just ask if all of you have kept yourself isolated from any information about this case — if that is so, raise your hand. Okay, everybody raised their hand saying they have not had any outside information, and I ask that you continue to do that. It is imperative — you must decide this case based only on what you heard in this courtroom. With that I ask that you go back and proceed with your deliberations. Thank you.
(recess — 11:01 am)
Related posts:
- Mikva Spins Fitzgerald’s Spinning Lincoln Right Back
- Early Morning Swim: Rupert Murdoch, Louie Gohmert, Glenn Beck Worst Persons in the World
- Breuer’s Claims about Future Investigations Undermined by Cheney’s Claims about the Past
- BREAKING: Madoff Sentenced to Maximum 150 Years
- Breaking: William Jefferson Convicted in Bribery Case
FITZ!
No Fitzmas this time :-(
Assuming that both counsels can question each juror, I expect that we are in for quite a wait (i.e., several hours). Is that a reasonable assumption?
It will be interesting to find out what juror did this, and what the exposure was. If a mistrial is declared, how long till they can retry it?
Jane!
vicky toensing must be salivating…
good to see the creeps are letting justice run its course…
Bollocks.
Jane, you have mail…
MISTRIAL!
A fitting end to a fitting charade.
That’s life in Potus GeBu’s ‘Merikuh.
Jane – glad to hear you made it to the courthouse. Here’s hoping the panic subsides and we can get a real determination of what happened.
Hope you got some R&R this weekend.
Woke up this morning thinking I had loads of time to get to the court (nobody could make it back to DC but me because of the weather, so I was on a late train from CT last night.)
Checked my email and saw they were calling everyone back in at 9:45 and let’s just say a few things got left behind in my haste to get down here.
Who needs underwear, right?
LOL Jane!
Hey Jane, missed you on the Oscars liveblog last night!
Jane Hamsher @ 12
As long as you don’t go all Britney on us. ;)
glad you made it there safe & sound.
Do counsels for the defense and prosecution question the jurors in turn, or is the questioning done with both the defense and prosecution in the same room? Is the judge present during the questioning?
Jane Hamsher @ 11
Be careful!
Brittney got in trouble for that. And stay away from hair clippers…
Any confirmation yet that Little Debbie was caught in the vicinity of the courthouse wearing a Ninja suit?
If you have a pair on, Jane (don’t respond to that!), you’re good to go.
Besides, that’s what Walgreens and Rite-Aid are for.
Sonate at 3 — Yes, this will likely take a bit of time.
My opinion, it’s why the Washington Post printed that op-ed slime.
Why wasn’t this jury sequestered in the first place? This trial was going to be in the media, it involved the media for crying out loud.
Are there any juror alternates that can fill in? Or is this going to mistrial?
If it goes to mistrial do you think Fitz can convince Libby that he’s better off working a deal? The trial was not going Libby’s way…
Fox news reported this around 10:30 and the host asked a guest commentator whether a mistrial would help the defense or the prosecution, and the commentator–doubtless a Republican operative–said usually the defense benefits, but in this case “the prosecution just didn’t make a case, so…”
easy, folks –
i think we just relax, breathe,
and wait patiently, now. . .
no [longer any] need to get our linen in a wad. . .
OT: what to make of James Cameron’s upcoming live news conference at 11AM… re: Jesus was married and had a son…?
Jane@12:
Well, you certainly made me think about something other than this trial!!
But seriously, any lawyer types have any reasonable guesstimate about how long it would take the judge to reach a decision about a mistrial?
Everyone filing back into court now. I’ll be live blogging it upstairs if anything happens.
OMG — how will we all survive? The Van Halen reunion tour with David Lee Roth ahs been postponed indefinitely. *g*
Jane Hamsher @ 25
you go girl~
Who needs underwear, right?
You big tease.
ReddHedd @ 20:
Thanks. Now I can go back to work for a bit.
Y’know, the thought occurs to me that the taint could be the other way. We automatically assume it’s the Steno Post, but it could as easily be a juror channeling one Christie or Jane or T-Rex, or any of us here at the ‘Dog. Just sayin’.
All FireDogs go commando style…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 26
we might as well jump? :-)
OT–
On Fox News on Sunday, Condi Rice compared the Democrats attempt to rewrite the 2002 authorization for force in Iraq to abandoning Germany after an imagined overthrow of Hitler:
Jane Hamsher @ 25
Hmmmm… The judge and the attorneys are all coming back?
That was quite a fast process, if it is truly complete.
John Palcewski @
23
Well duh it’s Faux Opinion, not an actual news source. “Didn’t make a case”??? Was this commentator ever a trial lawyer?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 25
*chirp*
via reuters-
so glad you’re there Jane ! – thought you and Mr. Bana would just be getting home from the Vanity Fair party *g*
Balrog at 35 — I only mention it because MSNBC just reported it as big news. SIGH
I Love Jane Hamsher @ 4
I am wondering in this age of email if it isn’t something like an email from some lefty source … my inbox is full of Truth Out/Media Matters/Move One etc etc.
Late Friday, I was so afraid this would happen but the MSM seemed to be ignoring this trial in favor of the BREAKING NEWS of A N Smith and the Oscars, so I was hoping that that for once the sloppiness of MSM would work in our favor.
Ugh … It’s like when Lucy pulls the football away from Charlie Brown … every time we get close to the truth we get PUNKED.
Sorry to vent … I go back to putting my head on the desk and weeping.
Deacon Blues @
LJ @ 15
Questions are typically done in chambers and are quite limited. All counsel and the judge are there for all questions.
Christy, how is Peanut?
if anyone needs to direct hostile feelings somewhere, there’s always shooter to kick around.
i read a whiled back that his shoe size had increased a few sizes or widths. a sign of congestive heart failure or
maybe the farrier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farrier should pay him a visit and trim his cloven hooves.
Christy Hardin Smith @
41
My cricket was aimed at the news, not your post… :)
Jane Hamsher @
12
Whoo-Hoo! Jane’s going Commando!
Fitzmas at 45 — She’s good — at preschool this morning, so she’s not watching Momma pace around the kitchen.
I just read through the constitution, finding it, as always ambiguous and open to interpretation.
It doesn’t explicitly say that you cannot charge a “civil officer” of the executive with a crime. IT does say that impeachment and removal does not preclude the pressing of criminal charges. I know that, in practice, the idea of charging a president with a crime is not permitted. The route is impeachment and trial. (Although I’d argue that permitting a civil suit against Clinton makes this still more ambiguous.)
But what about everyone else? It’s easy to make the case that the President gets special treatment in this regard. Otherwise you might have political opponents trumping up criminal charges outside the impeachment path. But does this argument hold for the essentially powerless (under the Constitution) Vice Presidency? Can Fitz charge Cheney in a new trial?
This, of course, is why the Toensing article was written, and published by the Post. Leaving aside nefarious plots involving Republican operatives, it’s easy to imagine a case where a friend or relative shoved the article in the juror’s face, saying, “You’re not getting the real story.”
From the Shuster quote over DKos, it sounds like the juror may have been predisposed to acquit, and, losing arguments on what had actually been presented, brought up the nullification arguments.
What a mess this could turn out to be.
raven @ 43
They got a name for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide
Call me Deacon Blues
If the Toensing article has influenced the juror in question, can Toensing be held in contempt and disbarred?
OK, I’m guessing probably not, but it sure is a nice thought.
. . .also nervously pacing and saying my Hail Marshalls
do the alternate jurors attend the deliberations?
Just in case somebody needs, um, stockings in a hurry…
Walgreens 1201 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC
(202) 624-3178
Looks like a convenient 5-6 blocks NW of Prettyman, although a bit nippy for a hike without, um, socks…
/mother-henning
Cheers to the latest FDL nimble-fingered live-blogger!
It could have come from anywhere, gang, even from E. J. Dionne’s bit this morning. We just don’t know.
One step at a time.
Isn’t there a code of ethics for journalists that prevent them from doing things that are essentially illegal? A news reporter can’t publish a report that a “crowded theater is on fire” without some legal recourse, or can they?
Misc – no, but in the event someone purposefully handed that screed to the juror – then that person has some ’splainin’ to do
CNN: per AP, one juror has been dismissed.
drink scotch whiskey all night long
and die behind the wheel
Deacon Blues @ 49
My brother named his first girl Aja, second, Layla Marigold. Poor dude, born in 59 instead of 49 like me. . .he missed the revolution!
apparently they can out an NOC “at a time of war” with impunity
Forgive me if it’s been said, but according to AP, one juror dismissed. Trial will continue with 11.
LandOfTheFree @ 58
they’ll proceed with only 11 jurors!
Did you start using Fitz’s closing argument transcript as a bedtime story yet?
He threw sand in the eyes of the Grand Jury and the FBI investigators. He obstructed justice. He stole the truth from the judicial system. When you return to that jury room, you deliberate, your verdict can give truth back. Please do.
And they found Libby guilty of all counts and Fitz lived happily ever after….
Christy Hardin Smith @ 49
how does this work: with only 11 jurors?
CNN says they believe jury will continue with 11 jurors. Unsure if one alternate will be called in to deliberations.
(just passing along what breaking news they’re giving… hope it helps).
Game on.
Give truth back.
can the judge sequester these 11?
rooney @ 54
No. Sometimes they are kept at the courthouse in a separate room, to be available if one of the regular jurors must be replaced. If this happens, the jury has to begin all their deliberations all over again from scratch, but the case is not re-argued.
In other situations and courtrooms, the alternates are dismissed once the jury gets the case.
I don’t remember what happened to the alternates here.
It probably wasn’t the Toensing op-ed that caused the jury problem this morning, rather the Post Ombudsman’s piece and accompanying graphic.
This jury is taking their responsibilities very seriously, I think.
Live blogging upstairs.
Whew…., I can breath again….
CNN/AP says dismissed juror was a woman.
In the event there is a retrial, I imagine that during jury selection the defense would not be able to shrewdly ask potential jurors about their opinion of Cheney, or if they could trust him, since we now know there is no way in hell he will expose himself to cross under oath.
I guess what stands out overall is the direct and efficient tack that Fitz employed in making his case. From what we’ve observed between the prosecution and defense, the side that stands to lose the most shine in a potential do-over has to be the defense. That’s what could happen when you first rely too heavily on neat tricks and excessive drama – there ain’t much left in the bag for a second go around.
raven @ 62
I named my boy Dylan — middle name, so he doesn’t use it. Of course, if you remember the revolution, you probably weren’t there!
Rayne @ 55
Walgreens 1201 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC
(202) 624-3178
Looks like a convenient 5-6 blocks NW of Prettyman, although a bit nippy for a hike without, um, socks…
/mother-henning
“In other news, Paris Hilton and Jane Hamsher were photographed MOST interestingly this AM, at the PrettyLady Courthouse in DC.”
So wells wants to keep going because of the WAPO juror, I’ll bet.
please watch the zigs. Have pity on the mods.
rooney @ 53
It may not matter. If the material has been introduced, then the whole jury could be tainted.Proceeding with 11 has to be a very bad break for the defense.
thanks for the info peterr
Thank you, as ever, Jane.
And I thought I might get some work done this morning!
Christy: is Pat’s “preference” for 12 jurors (as noted in Jane’s live blogging) typical for a prosecutor…sort of a standard argument? Any comments from the legal perspective? And, any thoughts as to why Wells wouldn’t want them to “start over” with an alternate?
CNN confirms a FEMALE juror has been dismissed. Both attys discussed: Wells said he wants 11 jurors, Fitz said he’s concerned about only 11 because if someone gets sick. Walton rules he’s going with 11 jurors.
Not clear what the dismissed juror heard/read. Not clear exactly how it unfolded. Jury met at 9:00, special meeting w/Judge at 9:45, so the speculate juror heard/read something over the weekend and reported it immediately upon coming to court this morning.
lf @ 61
A 19
Jane Hamsher @ 12
Not me – got my NASA diaper on today.
Misc @
52
Toensing, along with Joltin’ Joe DiGenova are always held in contempt ’round here.
-GSD
This is exactly why I had hoped that the jury would reach a verdict on Friday. Letting them go home for the weekend significantly increased the likelihood of this exposure. Too bad.
Okay, I need coffee.
Exhaling now. Good grief.
Fitzisattva !
queeniesdaughter @
42
I hope the dismissed juror was the one who didn’t wear the heart t-shirt.
What quote of Shuster’s was that. I must have missed it or have a different take. Been to Kos and watching MSNBC and still must have missed it.
If Fitz dissented (or whatever you call it) does that mean it’r really worse for the prosecution or is it some legal manuver?
Jane Hamsher @ 89
making some hot chocolate. It’s still snowing outside so it seems fitting.
Great to have you there for us Jane!!!!! Stay warm.
Nice live blogging Jane!
solai @ 90
i wonder which press outlet will get the FIRST interview with this dismissed juror…
cbl @ 90
Gonna sell my house in town!
Can the juror who was dismissed talk tp the press now?
Deacon Blues @
32
your point being…?
It was the no T-shirt juror!!!!!!!!!!!
Dismissed juror was the museum curator (I believe she might be the non-Tshirt wearer? – can Jane confirm?)
Folks, the onus is on the jurors to avoid the news, not the media (old, new, or otherwise) to shut up and say nothing. Much as Toensing et al. spew their stuff, they have a complete right to do so – just as we can share our wisdom here. The jury has to avoid it.
“Fine for me but not for thee” doesn’t work.
It sounds to me as if the juror did the responsible thing, in reporting the “unintentional” exposure to the media.
> Both attys discussed: Wells said he wants 11
> jurors, Fitz said he’s concerned about only 11
> because if someone gets sick. Walton rules he’s
> going with 11 jurors.
Does that pretty much nix Wells’ use of this incident on appeal? He asked for the jury to continue with 11 rather than either appointing a new one or asking immediately for a mistrial; Fitzgerald asked for a 12th. So it would seem Libby is precluded from raising this?
Or not?
Cranky
LS @ 102
How do you know?
I put 100,000-to-1 odds that the juror in question is a closet wingnut, an “authoritarian follower” such as Robert Altemeyer describes.
The information in question probably was from wingnut sources.
It was the art curator!
msnbc – art curator dismissed
Juror was 70-yr-old white female, museum curator – per CNN.
LS @ 99
LS – she was “the eldery art curator” who didn’t wear the tee shirt.
David Shuster says it was the art historian who wouldn’t wear the t-shirt
PunchPrincess @ 72
You know it was either the lady who wouldn’t wear a Valentine’s shirt or Bob Woodwards daughter in law or whoever she was/is.
Jane’s working on a follow-up post all. Will be up soon.
Maybe we should refer to this as “Jane’s Underwear” thread. Jane’s casual mention of “who needs underwear, right?” kinda tingled everybody’s imagination, it seems.
Condi never ceases to amaze me for someone who is supposedly “educated.” Knock, knock CondomLeeza, uh…Hitler never was overthrown. Plus, he was more “democratically” elected in the beginning than say GeeDub. Then he hung in there almost until the Allies dragged him out of his bunker. Did they change Stanford to a pre-school since I left the Golden State?
CNN announced that the dismissed juror was the 70 yr old retired curator at MOMA>
Well, the elderly curator was the one who didn’t wear the t-shirt, and she’s the one who was dismissed, according to CNN.
LOL – sniped again. :o)
*xyz @ 105
CNN just reported it. Caucasian woman in 70’s – museum curator.
Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure
VI. TRIAL > Rule 23.
Rule 23. Jury or Nonjury Trial
(a) Jury Trial.
If the defendant is entitled to a jury trial, the trial must be by jury unless:
(1) the defendant waives a jury trial in writing;
(2) the government consents; and
(3) the court approves.
(b) Jury Size.
(1) In General.
A jury consists of 12 persons unless this rule provides otherwise.
(2) Stipulation for a Smaller Jury.
At any time before the verdict, the parties may, with the court’s approval, stipulate in writing that:
(A) the jury may consist of fewer than 12 persons; or
(B) a jury of fewer than 12 persons may return a verdict if the court finds it necessary to excuse a juror for good cause after the trial begins.
(3) Court Order for a Jury of 11.
After the jury has retired to deliberate, the court may permit a jury of 11 persons to return a verdict, even without a stipulation by the parties, if the court finds good cause to excuse a juror.
(As amended Feb. 28, 1966, eff. July 1, 1966; July 30, 1977, eff. Oct. 1, 1977; Apr. 28, 1983, eff. Aug. 1, 1983; Apr. 29, 2002, eff. Dec. 1, 2002.)
v o x p o p g i r l @
98
If it’s FOX it could be very telling.
Thank God for Amtrak!!!!
Schuster on MSNBC just said the dismissed juror was the non-Tshirt wearing art curator
Yes!LS @ 102
But . . . but . . . James Cameron found the bones of Jesus!
It’s a sign!
Oh, I see I’m behind the ball here.
Can’t Buy a Shill
Reelin’ In The Fears
Reggie Don’t Lose That Number
OT – James Cameron now giving his live news conference… on jesus’s tomb… on MSNBC
Ooh! Hey, Watertiger!!
Wells wants a verdict with 11 and a person dismissed because (1) the wait kills your client.
(2) If you are losing new #12 is going to go with the flow anyway.
(3) It gives you another grounds for appeal.
OT, only time today, Bhodissatva live, on the reed college jukebox in the poolroom in 1987, with the slurred intro, never stopped playing.
Looks like the judge is going with 23(b)(3). If another juror gets struck, they are going to have redeliberate with the alternate(s).
p.s. my 102 info was from CNN – dismissed juror was a museum curator.
(also breaking, but OT: Gen Pace confirms that due to our being tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan, he’s sent a report to Congress saying we don’t have the troops to handle another military crisis. I assume this means Iran… or anything else that might creep up. He says there is significant risk to our being vulnerable if we get involved in any more military action).
Barb @ 93
That was my inference from this (although it’s moot now):
the way I read that was that the juror was using extra-trial arguments because he or she was having difficulty making his/her case with only the material that came out of the trial.
But the latest reports seem to indicate that the juror may not have spoken to anyone about this. That would make sense, given that they are going to continue.
Stupid to speculate but hard to resist.
Adie @ 101
No real point, other than we were speculating that it might have been due to Toensing, but that it could have just as easily have been something from our side of the fence (that being the truth, of course). Looks like it was from the Toensing side now, though.
This is totally unbelievable.
lf @ 130
Bhodissatva the dog is in the van with his buddy boo boo waiting for the outcome of the surgery! I go play ball with him hourly.
Hey, TRex!!!
Shuster reports: 1) the art curator was dumped from the jury. She’s the one who did not wear the tee shirt. 2) He speculates Well did not wantt to risk one of the alternates getting on, when one fo them pretty clearly seemed dubious of the defense.
All FireDogs go commando style…
why is is called “commando”…. I mean, if I’m under fire, I’d not only be wearing underpants, they be made out of Kevlar! :)
Pachacutec @ 139
I hadn’t heard this last one but it’s plausible too.
G**, I hope none of the remaining jurors are wingnuts.
Great. Jane sans underware. Just how am I supposed to get any work done now?
I liked the no T-shirt juror. That Stepford T-shirt thing creeped me out. If there was anyone on the jury likely to NOT be an authoritarian follower, it was the no-T-shirt juror.
Fitz probably has the jury pretty well scoped out. If he didn’t want to go on with 11, then going on with 11 is bad.
LandOfTheFree @ 133
Members of the Bush family are rested and ready to serve. No doubt, they are eager to serve, coming from such a warrior family.
MSNBC reported it was the Art Historian who didn’t wear the special Valentines T-shirt.
I interpreted Shuster to mean that the former alternate dismissed had body language predisposed against Team Libby. That would fit the facts from this morning.
-
First Jane doesn’t wear underwear, and then a juror doesn’t wear her shirt.
Don’t people want to wear clothes anymore?
Badwater @ 145
they are serving…
…serving beer, wine, etx.
I know it’s far too late, but is speculation at this time considered appropriate posting?
solai @
93
I was wondering exactly the same thing. Isn’t that the juror that is supposed to be the Shooter lover?
lf @ 61
When I die, I want to die like my grandmother who died peacefully in her sleep. Not terrified and screaming like the passengers in her car.
Members of the Bush family are rested and ready to serve. No doubt, they are eager to serve, coming from such a warrior family.
Jenna and NotJenna can’t serve because they’re next in line for the throne.
Oh, wait.
Wrong throne.
No undies? How shrill!
-
none @ 144
Or he thought he had a better chance of getting Scooter to plea out if there was a mistrial…
((((raven & family)))) sneaked in a prayer for y’all in between hyperventilations
p.lukasiak @ 140
When you’re in the wilderness for a long time with no access to a W&D or clean clothes, your groin will fare better with nothing close fitting.
Peterr @ 104
Then following your line of logic, Walton’s mini-fit a few months back over a statement made on Hardball by one of the Wilsons’ attorneys must have been because the statement was made by an officer of the court or because a jury was not yet selected? I see that is the jury’s responsibility to avoid media reports and that the media is free to exercise the right of free speech, but as a non-lawyer I am having a hard time squaring that with this earlier incident.
Any legal types want to enlighten me?
Peterr @ 104
THANK.YOU.PETERR! The voice of reason!
Everybody breathe, and keep blogging!
{{{Jane}}}
You’re our lifeline. Keep yer legs crossed & just keep typing, honey. Ignore the fratboyz.;->
well we’ve been in the wilderness for almost 6 years . . .
queeniesdaughter @ 155
Or he hates creating appeal issues.
I wonder if the dismissed juror perhaps just wanted to do something else this week. Or maybe she thought they would be there much longer and just was tired of doing it. Though that seems unlikely to me, after going all this way, for me anyway.
Fresh thread from Jane.
theExile @ 162
Maybe she hated the sweater they are all going to wear when they announce the verdict?
Attaturk @ 130
How could Wells appeal if he says to go with eleven? And Walton agrees.
rocket scientist – good one ! – hope it isn’t my F5 that gets permanently stuck from spew spray this time . . .
So, to clarify – jury is back deliberating (11 jurors), and all is well. No other jurors are tainted, everything is proceeding.
It sounds like Fitz’ only concern about going with 11 was that if the jury lost another member, they would have to add another juror or two late in deliberations. My gut feeling (IANAL) is that a verdict would most likely be reached sooner with 11 instead of adding a new person to deliberations now. I’m curious what Christy, LHP and other lawywers have to say.
All is well – no major crisis. I hope everyone is breathing. I’m gonna finally take my shower now!
queeniesdaughter @ 155
Or, he figures the more time the jury spends carefully going over the evidence — including a second time, if needed — the better for the prosecution.
Whereas Wells knows that each day spent with the evidence is one day further removed from his “give Scooter back to meeeee” plea.
watertiger @ 153
I thought the next in line was Mary Cheney.
Oh, wait.
Wrong President.
well. . .
i think the odds of a conviction
have just risen, and appreciably so. . .
the contrarian is gone. . .
so, again, we wait for fitz-mas
morning to come. . .
time to let this one rest,
a bit, and just. . .
c h i l l. . .
-your groin will fare better with nothing close-fitting,
-and juries deliberate without news hitting
-and if info’s pure then the verdict’s most fitting
-like the undies would be if the groin weren’t long-sitting
-and scooter is guilty and admin’s most foul
-he gave up his soul, now it’s time for the towel.
theExile @ 115
Since we have not gotten an adult comment from Moe, my guess is that he must have bailed.
> Fitz probably has the jury pretty well scoped
> out. If he didn’t want to go on with 11, then
> going on with 11 is bad.
Or he was trying to force Wells’ hand. As with the dismissed juror, you can argue it either way ;-(
Cranky
Just getting here. Now how come this isn’t one bit surprising? Thank Goddess it was the one no bullshit juror not the one with the journalism connection for instance, and it seems to have stopped first thing.
Pachacutec @ 139
Agree with Shuster. They did WAY LESS due diligence on the alternates than they did with the jurors. So the defense doesn’t want one of the sane people on.
Huffington Post:
the lone juror not wearing red on Valentine’s Day.
Muzzy @ 157
“What are ya wearin’ under yer kilt, Roddie?”
Roddy Piper: “Me boots.”
Badwater @ 145
Any chance Pace might summon the courage to march into the whitehouse & read his report to the preznit, nice – and – slow, TWICE?!? I think the wh is where we need the filibuster.
It appears that the defense did not make a motion for mistrial. They must think they have a very good chance of winning, since second trials usually favor the defense.
raven @ 134
Add my prayers to that list.
My faith in museum curators is shattered.
Attaturk @ 161
*snerk!*
Okay… Orient Lodge crashed due to volume… I’ve been trying to tweak it to keep up… It should be back now, although it may be slow and flakey…
I think I did lose a really good post, however….
I’m reading that the Libby team wanted to proceed with 11 jurors while the prosecution preferred to start the deliberation process from the beginning with a full complement of 12 jurors.
Can we infer from this that the information presented to the jury by the dismissed juror was Libby favorable? It seems the real issue here is not the number of jurors, but the issue of whether deliberations would continue or start anew after tapping an alternate juror to replace the dismissed juror. If the news report(s) that tainted the jury were LIbby favorable I would expect the defense to prefer that deliberations continue, with the hope that the jury proves unable to disregard the tainted information. The prosecution, however, would prefer that deliberations start from the beginning, with the expectation that the impact of the tainted info would be minimized by beginning the process all over.
It’s possible, however, that the LIbby team is simply concerned that extending the deliberations by starting all over will work against their client. Generally, I think the defense would fear extending the deliberations process, because it runs the risk that exhausted and/or impatient jurors would submit to the will of the majority in the jury and thereby deliver a unanimous verdict even though the impatient juror harbored doubts. This hypothesis of course assumes that a distinct majority of the jury favors conviction, a scenario I believe even the Libby team would have to concede is likely. If indeed the LIbby team is counting on hold-outs to prevent the majority from attaining unanimity, then extending the deliberations process would appear counterproductive.
In either scenario – continue deliberations or start anew – Walton will instruct the jury to ignore the tainted information. The issue for the LIbby team is which scenario gives them the most hope that the jury will nonetheless consider the tainted information. If I were Ted Wells, this would lead me to argue for continuation of the deliberations out of a concern that starting deliberations from the beginning would dilute the impact of the tained information and also add a new, 12th juror who would have not be privy to the tainted information.
I think the info was Libby favorable. And I’m willing to bet it was the piece of Toensing filth published by the WaPo that is the problem.
Attaturk @ 164
rofl
theExile @
115
he wasn’t elected. he was appointed. after he banned all of the other political parties he was elected …….
Attaturk @ 130
He has waived the appeal as to 11 jurors. It would be a tough appeal, in any event.
theExile @
115
They dragged Hitler out dead. He had himself shot in there. (Kinda fell on his sword.)
egregious @ 148
Thank God Justice is Blind?!
Paul Wartenberg @ 22
My question exactly. And if they haven’t been yet, what is the problem with immediate sequestration? Not doing it is like having sex without a condom–asking for trouble.
queeniesdaughter @ 155
Or he thought the alternate was a great juror.
Deacon Blues @ 135
heck, MOMA curator/retiree: just as likely she hates silly red t-shirts.
Guess I’ll save my hyperventilating for somethin’ else.
Anyone have a link they’d share to the Toensing article in question? I like to “know” mine enemy, & feel woefully uneducated on her specs, such as they are. Thanks in advance… ;-> oh shoot. just noticed Jane gave it to me! *blush*
Veritas78 @ 181
707
A number of commenters have made the point, with which I agree, that an extension of the deliberation process resulting from starting deliberations de novo would work against the defense – it increases the risk that holdouts will bend to the will of the majority out of sheer exhaustion or impatience. And this indeed may be the primary concern of the LIbby team.
But the LIbby team presumably knows exactly what information was presented to the jury by the dismissed juror. And the information would seem to be of more significance than the “length of deliberations” factor. If favorable to Libby, I would prefer as LIbby’s counsel to keep the deliberations going, and I would oppose adding a new, 12th juror who had not been exposed to the information.
However, if the information was Libby unfavorable, I’d want to start the process anew, hope that beginning all over would dilute the impact of the tainted info, and take comfort in the fact that one of the 12 jurors will never have learned of the tainted information.
Am I out there on this one? Like I said, it could just be the “length of deliberations” concern motivating Wells and the Libby team. But I think it more likely that it is Libby favorable information in the jury that is motivating them to argue for proceeding with 11 jurors.
“The juror who was dismissed was the art curator who wouldn’t wear red on Valentine’s day. Wells is reportedly quite happy with the results, and we hear Mr. Fitzgerald came as close to losing that poker face as he has — he was evidently quite pissed. “
I was pissed because I had a full house and Randall was all in!
This from fitz’s own desk
I keep trying to paste in a quote from fitz’s own desk, but it won’t go through. IF you check, he says he was pissed because quote, I had a full house and Randall was all in, unquote.
[Mod Note; Please refresh the page (not just comments). Your comment was freed from moderation.]
it did get in, late, sorry
hesikastor@188
I realize that Hitler killed himself and Eva Braun in his bunker, what I meant was they would have been dragging him out soon.
farender@186
I’m not an expert in pre-WWII German history, but I always understood that he was elected the first time in the thirties and figured it was because of the politics of division (just like the divider you guys have) and capitalizing on German disaffection due to the onerous Treaty of Versailles. At least then he and Bush are the same in that neither one was actually ever elected. The first time Bush was selected by Ronnie and Daddy’s SCOTUS and the second time they just cheated (ie OHIO).
lf @ 171
Now THAT is lovely. I didn’t think it should pass without comment.