
No matter how cynical and hardened some of us have become in the last six years, there are still times when the next statement from the Vice President just takes your breath away. On Wednesday, the Vice President of the United States spoke to American sailors stationed in the Far East about the need for "honor" in the US policy in Iraq.
"We want to complete the mission, we want to get it done right, and we want to return with honor," said Cheney, who heads on Thursday for Australia to meet Prime Minister John Howard, another staunch supporter of Bush's Iraq policy.
Cheney's comment immediately evoked memories of Nixon's promise to achieve "peace with honor" in Viet Nam. But what struck me was the absurdity that Dick Cheney, the man whose words and actions have brought more dishonor on the United States than almost anyone in our lifetimes, would presume to lecture us on the concept of honor.
Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and their attorneys are responsible for the shameful notion that America's "honor" is loose enough to include this:
. . .as well as this continuing embarassment . . .

To retain our sanity and any sense of moral balance, we need to keep repeating that Dick Cheney is the guy who persistently encouraged and defended the use of torture and the use of information obtained during torture in military tribunals. He's the man with whom John McCain had to negotiate to get any restrictions on the use of torture and evidence derived from torture, and who rolled John McCain and Lindsey Graham, and thus the compliant Republican Congress, into passing a pathetically watered down restriction of torture in the Military Commissions Act. That's the bill that Cheney's and Bush's favorite non-Democrat, Joe Lieberman, voted for.
Dick Cheney is the man who thinks it's okay for the US government to kidnap citizens of other countries, secretly render them to another country where they can be tortured, while transporting them through the countries of our allies, both embarrassing our allies and compromising their own laws; he's thus created the conditions in which two of those countries, Germany and Italy, have indicted nearly two dozen US agents for their roles in this despicable activity.
Dick Cheney is the man who, along with his and DoD's attorneys and the Attorney General, believes it is just fine to set up phony military tribunals to punish anyone, including lawful US residents and US citizens, held indefinitely by the US military at Guantanamo, if there was any suspicion, justified or not, of their being "enemy combatants." Cheney's the guy who, along with these same attorneys, believes that the US courts should not be allowed to determine whether these people have been lawfully seized, or are being lawfully imprisoned, denying a right of habeas corpus that has been the ethical and procedural foundation of US/British law for centuries. Cheney's the guy who thinks the President as Unilateral Executive is not bound by the 4th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States when it conducts surveillance of US citizens.
Dick Cheney is the guy who insisted that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and who insisted that the CIA was unequivocally confirming that Iraq had attempted to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger to further its nuclear weapons program, and who, when the basis of this claim was exposed as a total fabrication, and when it was pointed out that the CIA, State and Defense had serious doubts about this story from the beginning, managed to conceal these doubts from the public but later blamed the CIA for his ignoring and hyping suspect intelligence information. And he's the guy who encouraged Doug Feith into doing a terrific job in his rogue intelligence group, stovepiping the phony information into the President.
Dick Cheney is the guy who, when Joe Wilson at first privately, and then publically challenged the Administration's claims about Iraq seeking uranium yellowcake, directed his Chief of Staff to continue to mislead the press about the WMD story, by leaking and misrepresenting selective portions of the classified National Intelligence Estimate to New York Times reporter Judy Miller, even while other members of the Administration were still attempting to get the NIE formally declassified, but without telling them he had already ordered the leak.
Dick Cheney is the guy who then conspired with and directed Libby to discredit Joe Wilson, including a scheme to recklessly and deliberately leak a CIA agent's employment and position to the media, without considering her classified status or the potential harm and risks this disclosure might have for Valerie Wilson, her CIA unit, their operations, her cover or the safety and lives of those she worked with in the intelligence community.
Dick Cheney is the guy who worked incessantly to convince the American people of a link between those who attacked us on 9/11 and Saddam Hussein's regime. He's the one who assured us, repeatedly, that a top al-Qaeda representative met Saddam's intelligence officials in Prague prior to 9/11. And then when this phony intelligence was exposed as bogus, and with equal assurance, he denied he ever said that.
Dick Cheney is the guy who assured the American people that the Iraq invasion would be easy, that we would be greeted as liberators, that the insurgency was in it's last throes, that we were making enormous progress in Iraq. This week Cheney pushed the fantasy that the British troop reduction in Basra was a sign of success in Iraq, and on and on. Along with George Bush, Dick Cheney is responsible for having recklessless put thousands of people in harms way, but Dick Cheney's response when asked to serve himself was, "I had other priorities."
And Dick Cheney is the guy who, when the President claims that criticism of his policies is not a sign of disloyalty or lack of patriotism, repeatedly links anyone who opposes the Bush/Cheney policy with support for al-Qaeda, both before the elections, and after. And he's still doing it. [Update: Digby has more over over the last two days.]
An honorable nation does not engage in these actions. Honorable people do not do them or endorse them. To Dick Cheney, I say, these are not the actions of an honorable man. If an honorable man suddenly woke up and discovered he had contributed to all of this, he would know exactly what to do:
He would first humbly apologize to the nation and beg for forgiveness.
And then he would resign.
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Mornin Scarecrow! Fitz!!
Saw Road to Guantanamo in Germany this week, the same day as closing arguments. How appropriate. Now to read post.
If Libby’s convicted, will Cheney be forced to resign?
I’m thinkin so. I’m hopin so.
Good morning. Happy Verdict Watch Day.
Cheney speaking about honor reminds me of this quote my dad occasionally used:
The louder he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.
–Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thank you for putting all of this in one place. What is going on is insane and evil, to say the least.
I am angry. So angry. And even more … I’m sad. Very, very sad.
FDL is a lifeline for me and for many. Thanks.
Good Morning Scarecrow! A though provoking post this morning. George Bush is the man who enpowers Cheney, turn him loose on the rest of the world, and is eirther too stupid or doesn’t care enough to understand the consquences of Cheney’s actions. George associates action with manhood so he thinks he is a real stud.
Something to chew on. This business about declassifying the NIE. There are procedures for keeping records of declassification. Obviously if it is crime to leak classifed informetion (and it is crime) you need to keep track of what is and is not classified. There is a showdown brewing with the OVP becasue they claim that DON’T KEEP ANY REORDS OF WHAT THEY DECLASSIFY.
I have never seena document that shows when the NIE was declassified.
I am looking for evidence that such document exists (or doesn’t) anybody have any info on this?
And what man of honor, when tasked with carefully and deliberately finding the best candidate for VP spot, chooses HIMSELF!
From that moment on, Cheney’s use of the word honor would always seem hypocriticalto me.
I wonder if his lip curls upinto that sneer when he says the word “honor.”
Please consider this commentary written by David Kurtz, which appeared in Talking Points Memo on February 4:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....012263.php
Oh, not that I am predicitng or anything, but Fridays are often verdict days, Juries sometimes treat deliberations like a workweek, so on Fridays they feel a little more pressure to finish up.
I did not expect a verdict yesterday, today I am going to start getting obsessive.
looseheadprop @ 7
Here’s a link to Executive Order 13292: http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html
looseheadprop @ 10
Be as obsessive has you like! I think most here are in the same boat on this too!
This reminds me of way back, in 2000, when George asked Dick to interview potential VP candidates for the ticket.
Of course, after interviewing all of them, Dick just couldn’t find anyone suitable for the job and took it upon himself instead.
I’m so glad he did. Can you imagine what shape our country would be in if we’d had an even worse VP?
Thank you for the comprehensive list! During the 2004 campaign, Cheney also authoritatively asserted that if John Kerry were elected that the US would be at increased risk of another terrorist attack
looseheadprop @ 10
I think today will be the day, too. Col. Jack Jacobs predicted - just now on Imus - that Libby would get off. He added, “One way or another”. really. and I guess that’s acceptable to “team Imus”! outrageous!
lisongare @ 14
Considering the scale of vote fraud in Ohio, I guess that means Dick kept his promise.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 11
Steve, Thanks. I know about the EO. What I am looking for is the memo/cover sheet/ diary entry/ check off form/ Whatever
that says on this date, X person authorized these parts of the NIE to be declassified.
I don’t actually think such a document exists publicily or at all. But before I go hog wild on a tin foil hat idea I have, I’m trying to do a little rough due diligence.
quick “topy” cop:
who’s words and actions
Should be whose words
Now back to read the full post. Thanks for this topic!
Good morning everyone. We actually got real snow last night. Not much, but it’s better than the ice we had.
lhp — yeah, that magic wand declassification stuff is just not credible. Lot’s more under that rock.
Stephen Parrish, CPA — thanks for the Kurtz link; fits in nicely.
I think today will be the day, too. Col. Jack Jacobs predicted - just now on Imus - that Libby would get off. He added, “One way or another”. really. and I guess that’s acceptable to “team Imus”! outrageous!
You gathered that right after Imus restated that “everyone knows they are war criminals and liars”?
lisongare @ 14
Where did I read it this morning? This is the problem when you read 5 newspapers and a bunch of blogs one right after the other.
There is an article that saw within the last 2 hours that says deadly terrorist attacks have increased 7 fold since we invided Iraq.
Don’t you feel safer knowng that? Not!
lhp –
I don’t actually think such a document exists publicily or at all. But before I go hog wild on a tin foil hat idea I have, I’m trying to do a little rough due diligence.
I agree. We don’t actually know what Cheney said to Libby; we only know what Libby says Cheney said about the NIE and getting clearance from the Pres. Then we had that curious statement by Cheney in some interview (anyone remember?) in which he said he had the authority himself. The timing of that in relation to what else was going on in the Libby case can now be looked at again in light of the new evidence from the trial.
Scarecrow @ 19
I am becoming very interested in that rock. You may recall that “Mary” spent almost a year trying to get folks to pay attention to abuse of the classification rules.
To say she has been vindicated by the revelations of the Libby Trial would be a huge understatement.
I think it may be time to revisit some of thase citation rich comments of hers.
If only I understood how to search the comment archives.
Scarecrow;
Nice to meet you.
I’m one of those who believe Cheney IS the living symbol of the congressional-military-industrial complex, and it did not take him long to put the wheels of war into motion, once he annointed himself the king behind the brainless puppet prince.
If I were to pick a moment when the neocons’ master plan went into high gear, from the time Sharon stepped onto the Temple Mount, those wheels have been in motion, and Cheney’s no-bid book-cooking bubbas have been profiting ever since.
Saddam’s hanging corpse and multi-national corporate control of all that Iraqi oil were Cheney’s primary lifetime achievements(not necessarily in that order).
That will be the history book’s footnote about Cheney, he’ll be listed tight after that “comma” that Bush called the Iraq War.
There’sll be no record of humane philonathropy, no accolades for making peace between warring nations, no charming tales of heroic sacrifice to make the world a better place for future children.
Cheney’s legacy will be one of unchecked corporate greed and an insatiable hunger for more oil.
I’ve said it before, it is no surprise to many of us, that we DID find a terrible Weapon of Mass Destruction in Iraq.
It’s called OIL. And Richard the Worst wants it all for himself.
“topy” cop again:
its okay for the US government
“it’s okay”
no apostrophe in the possessive its
use apostrophe in the contraction it’s [it is]
Sorry to be so picky, but FDL’s incredible expertise is now being linked all over the blogosphere.
looseheadprop @ 23
Check for Mary 2002 posts at dKos.
Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs -
scarecrow - sterling effort, my oh my
but wait, there’s more -
there is a connection between this Beast and what we have seen out of Bldg 18 this week - uniforms and their families continue to suffer b/c the resources needed to provide them with proper care has gone to Haliburton, Bechtel, & Dyncorp - and we all know who was driving that bus
And this sent me around the bend (clinical term) when I saw it last night
simply unbelievable
Coming back from lunch to my office at the DOJ yesterday around 1:15, I walked right past the man himself — Fitz in the flesh. I was too much in awe to speak, but if I had found the words, this is what I would have said:
“Mr. Fitzgerald, I am an attorney at the Department of Justice. I am actually quite proud of the work I do in my section, and glad to be doing it. But at the same time, it is a rare thing these days for me to turn on the tv news and see something that makes me proud to be a part of the Justice Department. You do, and I just want to thank you for that.”
Excellent post, scarecrow.
I’ve had these same thoughts for years. I could never have articulated them so well. I’m taking this post with me to look at from time to time, so that, in the future, I won’t just stammer and sputter when talking about this evil, evil man.
Fineman just called in to Imus ’cause he can’t stand to be ignored…. his bunny in the stewpot is that Fitz was insufficient so the jury had to call for post-its and pictures to convince a couple hold-out jurors. But Wells was a wonderful attorney, a saint I tell you…and based on Fineman’s vast experience as a juror in DC [one civil case], this is probably the biggest experience of these lowly jurors lives….
Gag me.
Dick Cheney and company are war criminals.
addie loggins @
28
Welcome addie loggins — thanks for your service, and hang in there. The country needs honest people like you in the DoJ.
BTW there was some confirmation at the time from McClellan that as of a press conference on (IIRC) July 23 the NIE had been declassified, but he refused to give the date on which the magic wand had been waved.
As far as the classification system goes, the “TATS” markings on at least one (or more?) Libby trial evidence documents is interesting.
“TATS” (which was said to be “Treat As Top Secret”) is not, as far as I know, part of the U.S. Government classification system.
Does OVP has a separate scheme for classifying documents?
I think an enterprising young reporter who pulled on this thread would find a very interesting sweater falling apart in their hands.
addie loggins,
thank you for your service
don’t know how long you have been reading here, but Christy, lhp, Mary,et al have done a very good job impressing on us that there are ethical, concientious, patriotic folk toiling away on behalf of The People and often in a hostile environment at DOJ - good on ya
Welcome to The Lake !
forget the apology,
JUST RESIGN!
Scarecrow @ 22
SOmething else. ANd I’m gonna do a post about this b/c it has been driving me nuts.
Cheney was in the room when Scooter first learned about Valerie Wilson. Cheney is writitng talking points for Libby to go rebut Joe Wilson.
The shit hits the fan about leaking a NOC. And Libby goes to Cheney and says “My source for learning about Valerie Plame was Tim Russert”
Cheney knows thats not true. Libby knows thats not true.
It was amoung the final pieces of information Pat said tot he jury the other day.
It’s Libby informing Cheney about what their cover story is going to be.
Which is why am trying to find out if we have ANYTHING AT ALL except the “word” of Shrub, Shooter and soon to be adjudged liar Libby to support this Insta-declassification thingy?
I do know there is supposed to have been a conversation where Libby asks (addington?) whether it is true that VP can declassify or whether Pres can insta declassify.
Pat also stressed (as did Wells odddly enough) that when Libby went to leak the NIE to Miller only 3 people in the world knew about this declassification.
The people who actually had a legitiamte reason to know about such declassififcation, say like the Secretaries of State and Defense, the CIA Director, the NAtional Security Advisor–They are not told. Even though they are actively requesting declassification of this very document.
If the ONLY contemporaneous corroboration for the insta declassification is this coversation, I would be very curious to know how firm the proof of the DATE of that conversation actually is, rather than just accepting that those things actually happened as they are saying.
Wowsa, Scarecrow! Focused. Pointed. Fitzian.
We are inspired.
Impeach Shadow President Chee-knee.
And the first act after the swearing-in of Democratic President Edwards-Obama-Clark-Richardson should be the appointment of Fitz as AG, tasked with cleaning out all the rats from Washington. War profiteers, traitors, criminal conspiracy WHIGs, the whole she-bang. No exemptions. And start at the top.
I rarely think of a person as “evil”, but Cheney is evil.
addie loggins @ 28
There are so many good decent people still working in our government and trying to keep doing hte right thing in spite of terrible odds. I hope you are able to wait out this cabal and get back to a time where you are proud, not only of your own good work, but of your agency as an institution.
In some ways, I think our choice of the next Attorney General is almost as important as our choice for our next president.
In fact, I think a very good campaign trail question would be to ask who the candidate has in mind for AG, CIA Director and FBI Director. We have to be very serious about restoring integrity to those agencies from the top. We can’t expect midlevel managers to keep fighting their own bosses to try to do thier jobs correctly
man-oh-man scarecrow… you just keep getting better and better… and this one really hit the spot.
i woke up this morning thinking about honor and what it means today. guess it’s from going to sleep thinking about the libby trial with the fitz vs cheney as almost mythical archetypes.
LHP @ 36, see here for Libby consulting Addington about declassifying NIE
Thanks.
I’m gonna keep at this for a few days. Maybe pick Marcy’s brain a little.
Oops! Wrong link about Addington. Try here. Sorry!
Has anyone any idea about how wide-spread Cheney’s personal “secret service” is? And shouldn’t someone be looking carefully into the crossover confession in Cheney’s placebo employee list? Why would Cheney, other than presiding over the Senate, have “operatives” scattered throughout Capitol Hill? Are they there as civil servants or Cheney’s corporate spies?
Or is this just one of those traditional transparent links between two supposedly separate branches of government, that has never been an issue because the VP has never been so powerful???
Is the office of VP actually a hook-up between branches that we might want to reconsider. Especially considering how Cheney has abused it so fatally?
My concept of congressional protocol may be quite skewed here. But to my untrained brain, a power-mongering VP with unqualified support from his own majority party, might easily be the beginning of a breakdown of the all-important separation of powers.
If we have many more VP’s like Cheney, it might be worth considering removing the VP from The Hill as a permanent fixture.
there will never be a resignation from anyone in this administration who doesn’t want to put some distance between themselves and the crime family.
and of course, cheney is bush’s little stay-out-of-impeachment-free card. cause no one wants to see cheney actually ascend to the top spot.
the point of the talkingpointsmemo post, cited above in comments, is truly apt: cheney has preferred the background, where there is little scrutiny. i have no doubt that he’s been running all the major foreign policy elements of this government. scary, when you think just how bent an individual he is.
to wrap himself in terms of “honor”….no, he doesn’t get to do that.
one last little item for scarecrow’s impeccable checklist. in the first months of the bush administration, after the rudman and hart commission laid out the clear and present danger (let alone richard clark screaming in the halls of the white house), cheney was tasked with running an anti-terrorist policy group. i believe its first meeting was supposedly 9/10/01, but i’m not sure if it met even then.
Scarecrow - another great piece. I hope there is a steady drum beat for his resignation, with or without a Libby conviction (but preferably with).
There is a certain irony that we now have to deal with an administration full of individuals who were part of previous Republican administrations determined to invoke Constitutional crises like Watergate and Iran Contra. With Bush as president they have had free reign to “right” all their perceived wrongs and have taken us to the bring of destroying our democracy - from stealing elections, to lying us into war, to condoning torture, to sitting by and allowing a city to drown.
It is an administration that will live in infamy and I certainly hope the Congress will discharge their Constitutional duty and move to impeach Cheney (if that’s possible). Agnew had to resign when he was indicted for crimes committed when he was Governor of Maryland. How wonderful it would be if the second after Libby is convicted, Fitzgerald announced Cheney’s indictment.
One can dream…
Resign doesn’t do it for me. That kind of person has to be removed from office.
Oh, I forgot, we’re not allowed to do that. Never mind.
lhp –
In fact, I think a very good campaign trail question would be to ask who the candidate has in mind for AG, CIA Director and FBI Director. We have to be very serious about restoring integrity to those agencies from the top. We can’t expect midlevel managers to keep fighting their own bosses to try to do thier jobs correctly.
That’s the best suggestion I’ve seen on what we should be asking these folks in Iowa and New Hamshire. I see an lhp post on that theme.
Scarecrow — maybe you could collaborate with John Dean to draft some articles of impeachment for Cheney? Maybe today some time? ;-) Nice work, thorough.
looseheadprop — the NIE declassification is right there with the declassification of Brewster-Jennings. Somebody in the chain made the assumption that because Plame was outed, that her employer was fair game, too — a form of instant declassification, without any apparent effort to check for damage control before continuing. Bugs the bejabbers out of me.
Anyhow…went surfing for Mary’s comments. Thought she’d made them back in Haloscan days. Here’s one thread in which declassification is discussed; she refers to 3.1(b) in the course of the thread. I’ll keep looking.
dab_from_CT @ 46
this is right on. there has simply not been a republican administration in the last 40 years that has not tried, and in most respects, succeeded in shredding the constitution.
i’d be willing to give ford a pass, except he’s where rummy and cheney got traction.
and bush I, let’s not forget his self-defensive pardoningn of weinberger et al., leaving prosecutor walsh sputtering impotently.
this ought to be a meme that at least gets out among the democratic base. republicans = authoritarians.
I was flabbergasted to hear that Swingin’ Dick had the raisins to go to Japan and assure them that Americans were still big supporters of this ‘war’.
What a lying sack of shit.
lhp,
if you are still here -
I made 2 of my customers (1 Pros., 1 Def.) spew their ice tea on weds. -
imagine asking your hippie waiter her impression of closing arguments - and she sallies forth on failed Gray Mail attempts and the Scottish Defense
after patting themselves dry, they asked me to extend their hardiest commendations to my ‘tutor’
now waving to Armani Boy and UT LAW - told ya this place was the shit ! -
Scarecrow @ 48
yes please! would love to see an lhp post on this subject.
Great post once again, Scarecrow. I agree with you completely; I’m sure we all do.
“imagine asking your hippie waiter her impression of closing arguments - and she sallies forth on failed Gray Mail attempts and the Scottish Defense…”
Give up the waitress work and get into law-school, girl, you are underemployed!
Cheney an honorable man? He’s a Republican. To them, it’s plunder before honor.
lhp — still reading that same thread to which I linked.
Note Stephen Parrish’s comment, offering 18 USC 793 and 18 USC 798
Commenter apodaca also offered some choice tidbits.
Morning all. This ought to go without saying, but I am going to say it anyway: no threats of violence, no discussions of hangings or other violents acts, no comments relating to anything you might like to see or do or what-have-you to Dick Cheney or any other member of the Administration. Period. You can discuss ideas, concepts, politics, and whatever else is pissing you off — but no threats. There is this little group that I like to call the Secret Service, and they tend to frown on that sort of thing — and I would prefer that we don’t have to deal with them on a daily basis. Plus, frankly, it’s just bad form. If you have questions about this, please feel free to e-mail me at ReddHedd AT firedoglake DOT com. But as I have made this clear numerous times in the past, you can expect that I will be enforcing a no tolerance policy on this sort of thing — consider yourselves forewarned. Thanks.
lhp — yes, my first reaction to the Libby GJ testimony that “I heard it from the NBC grapevine” was, “Why is he telling Fitz that he and Cheney discussed a cover story?”
I suppose Libby thought that Cheney would also be testifying, and that Cheney would confirm this conversation, and that would be enough. But it’s very curious. And then to come back later, and tell Cheney, “uh, boss, I made a mistake; you told me.” I don’t think Cheney’s reaction was just a nod of the head!
Where is Alexander Butterfield?
lhp — grabbed my copy of Hubris, to find that there is only one indexed entry to NIE, pg. 70.
Covers Condi Rice and whether she actually read the NIE or not. She’d been asked in July 2003 in regards to the uranium story, but reporters never followed up to insist on an answer.
It’s a month later before she says she’s read it. Bet you dollars to donuts Condi knew the NIE wasn’t declassified as of July 2003 and therefore avoided responding altogether.
The manner in which this is covered in Hubris, folks alleging Condi hasn’t read the NIE and it makes her look bad, suggests to me that they tried to use her as a cut-out and she knew it and side-stepped it.
cbl @ 27 re Chee-knee’s statements on Iran procuring uranium from Tanzania:
Don’t recall where I saw it in hectic yesterday’s readings, but some say that Iran has its own supply of uranium and has no need of importing it from Tanzania or anywhere.
Just another in the pattern of lies-by-Chee-knee? I report, you decide.
lhp–
I’m so glad you are preparing a post on the issue of declassification. No matter what verdict is returned, this is one of the big bombshells to come out ot the trial.
But here’s a point that goes beyond the fact of even whether or not the NIE was actually properly declassified according to (questionable) executive authority and established procedures:
Even IF the NIE was declassified using the proper procedures, such classification or declassification (the statute makes it clear that there is no distinction in how those two are to be treated) is illegal. (I believe it is the National Securities Act of 1947 that lays out the language) if it is used for political purposes. It specifically prohibits classification (and thus declassification) to avoid “embarrasment.” I promise to find the exact language when I get a few minutes. The Act is here:
http://www.intelligence.gov/0-natsecact_1947.shtml
I had it in an earlier commentary, but I can’t find the damn thing right at the moment. anyway, a very important point deserving of Congressional investigation. As I read it, anything classified must be “marked” for classification or declassification, so there must be a “marked” copy of the NIE somewhere.
Stay on this!
Did you watch Ghosts of Abu Ghraib last night? There was a surprisingly casual mention in there that truly shocked me (and I thought I was numb to Abu Ghraib).
There was a women and children’s wing right by the “hard area” where the torture went on. They said that they’d detain a man’s wife and/or kids in order to make him turn himself in. Isn’t that kidnapping? Isn’t that was the other side does? There was a nine year old kid in Abu Ghraib. NINE YEARS OLD.
Let me add my friendly and thankful greetings to you, Addie Loggins. Your pride in your DoJ colleague Patrick Fitzgerald marks you as one of the Good People.
Scarecrow, thanx for yet another post with a notably high pith/byte ratio. You mention what an honorable man would do, after begging forgiveness: resign. This is certainly true.
But in Shooter’s case, I would hope for a forced and highly ignominious resignation. Even when it comes wreathed in the soft camouflage of “health reasons” — as it will in the coming weeks — we will know precisely why he is going, and we will drink deep of the cup of satisfaction. Here’s to your long, healthy and disgraced retirement, Mr. Vise pReznit.
Just a comment on cbl’s last post, I wonder how many new, young and old potential lawyers and legal experts will develop from what you folks at Firedog Lake have done here?
If just ONE cbl gets a fire in her heart for justice, and goes on to become a lawyer or even a legal aide, or a public servant in the legal field, Firedog Lake has accomplished a wonderful thing.
My eldest son is a lawyer, and his teenage experience watching them mercilessly and for purely political reasons, skewer Clinton during the impeachment debacle, helped inspire that hunger for a hand in promoting real justice.
So along with your great reporting and your earnest truth-search, you folks are also an inspiration for many future legal eagles, whose goal is not self benefit, but the public good.
You folks are helping create a future class of honest, public-minded lawyers. And I hope the civics teachers across the land have logged on for their students, and followed your work, too.
They are currently insisting on court proceedings here to address the laws Canadian soldiers may have participated in breaking by handing captured insurgents over to the US for torture and indefinite incarceration.
Military advisers and others involved are insisting that Canadian troops no longer hand over detainees or that if they must, that new guidelines for their care and eventual release be put in place and followed.
It’s a little late for a conscience but Harper’s power is waning fast, so there is some hope.
He’s so desperately trying to force Parliament to reinstate our version of the patriot act and he’s got no 9-11 to beat people over the head with he’s actually trying to use the Lockerbie tragedy as his terrorism example. He actually accused a sitting member of Parliament of terrorist connections because he won’t allow himself or his family to be questioned about Lockerbie. He was six when it happened.
Anyone who doesn’t see shrub’s arm up Harper’s ass is kidding themselves.
Heck, FDL makes me want to be a lawyer, and I don’t even have a college degree!
looseheadprop @ 36
The people who actually had a legitiamte reason to know about such declassififcation, say like the Secretaries of State and Defense, the CIA Director, the NAtional Security Advisor–They are not told. Even though they are actively requesting declassification of this very document.
If the ONLY contemporaneous corroboration for the insta declassification is this coversation, I would be very curious to know how firm the proof of the DATE of that conversation actually is, rather than just accepting that those things actually happened as they are saying.
i hope fitz asked bush about the insta-declasification (of the nie, plame, and brewster jennings) when “Bush spent more than an hour answering questions from special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald“
OT - sort of - since it’s about Lieberman who (in my mind, at least) melds into Cheney. But Howie has a great post up about the Dem’s move in the Senate to revoke war authorization and the speculation that this may be the final nail in the Lieberman coffin. According to Howie, even former supporters are eager for him to jump to the Republican side. I guess even Landreau is tired of his WATB whining.
The graphic is to die for…
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/
Cheney now says Iran seeking uranium from Tanzania? I can’t believe we are having this absolute repeat of the propaganda used for going to with Iraq. How stupid do they think we are!?! More importantly, how stupid is Cheney?
I took “Anatomy of Deceit” with me to a meeting the other night where I sat next to a lawyer. (Lots of waiting at the meeting.) Later he said it looked like some interesting reading. . .I said “FDL,” he was familiar.
Prairie Sunshine, you are after my heart as the Queen of punctuation/apostrophes.
Prairie Sunshine,
yes, we all agreed that Iran has plenty of it’s own uranium -
it was the idea that someone would even attempt this exact same murderous gambit again that sent me ranting
I still want everyone of the unnamed sources, anonymous intel officials, etc. to come out yesterday
wha ? the Beast must have a Drums of War Generator® bookmarked ?
I see this morning that the article is from August and we were all probably so focused on the upcoming election it failed to register
dab_from_CT @ 69
Well we got sick of Joe’s whining during the campaign season. I can’t imagine having to work with the guy.
Alicia @ 67
Go for it…it’s never too late.
A PBS program I commented about a couple days back re the Marines cited their starting a program of study of combat behavior, etc. in ‘99. One guy’s comment was that he took the most pride in teaching the character building segment: ethos. Right vs. wrong.
Isn’t Pace a Marine?
Honor. History. True warriors.
Bush/Chee-knee crowd? None of the above.
Kristof NYT
‘ The basic question for Cheney is whether he directed an effort from the White House to tar the reputations of Joe and Valerie Wilson, blame the C.I.A. for misleading him and leak to favored reporters the fact that Valerie worked for the C.I.A. in the W.M.D. area. It sure appears he did all of these. In addition, since Libby and Cheney shared a limousine to work every day, did they ever discuss the statements that Libby was making to the grand jury that are the subject of the alleged perjury?
If so, did Cheney encourage him to make those statements? One of the blogs that has covered the Libby trial most closely, Fire Dog Lake, has come up with a detailed timeline raising questions about Cheney. I’ve already written that if Cheney won’t address these questions, he should resign. “
…………………
[questions for Dumbya]
“
We just don’t know the answers to these questions, and there’s not much point speculating. But when serious questions are raised about the integrity of the White House, the President and Vice President owe us answers. “
JEP @ 65
Check me out on this, other firepups, but I was appalled to hear that in recent years (prolly since the Reagan era) the teaching of Civics has virtually disappeared from our public schools, to be replaced by “teaching to the test” rote learning.
My old High School Civics teacher was kind enough to attend my Mom’s funeral a couple years back. This fellow had been a dynamic inspiration and of course I thanked him for that — but I also told him I’d rather he hadn’t further honed and informed my patriotic idealism, because had he not, I wouldn’t be in such anguish to see what had become of my country. We commisserated. That was an extra sadness, but a true one. :(
I hope anyone who has access to the House Intel Committee will forward this post. The People want to know.
mui @ 70
Arrogant. Delusional. Cynical. Stupid?
****
dab, that graphic needed a major spew warning!
When people ask me if I’m a lawyer, I ask them not to call me names.
:-}
Any guess who this senior official is? If so, kudos.
lhp — emptywheel on the NIE’s declassification, from 12-FEB-06 in FDL comments.
There’s more in the same thread on the topic. Still looking for more of Mary’s comments.
For others wishing to revisit the NIE, see Jane’s post from April 2006, “Cheney ordered Libby to leak classified information.”
“Anyone who doesn’t see shrub’s arm up Harper’s ass is kidding themselves.”
Another sockpuppet, no doubt? But I would guess it’s Cheney’s third hand you see buried up there, if this trial proves anything, it proves the shrub has always been a little shrub and the VP really holds the keys to power.
I’m starting to get this Hindu mental image of an eight-armed Cheney-demon, with sock-puppets on every hand, including everyone but….
Funny, I couldn’t think of anyone who fit the end of that sentence. Powell, maybe? But no doubt it was Cheney who gave him that little vial of white powder. And while Condi may be playing coy, her sockpuppet it glued to one of Cheney’s many hands.
Any good Hindu artists out there want to make a colorful drawing of that 8-armed Cheney demon? You know, like the ones with Siva, Kali, Krisna and the elephant, what’s his name, Ganesh?
And when you do the Bush sockpuppet, try not to make his face look too much like Hanuman, lets not show that holy monkey any disrespect.
Why wouldn’t Keith Olbermann appear on MSNBC with Michael Savage?
Let Keith explain:
“But I couldn’t appear with him because he’s an insane fascist.”
So succint, so true.
Thanks for having some integrity Keith.
-GSD
dab_from_CT @ 69
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/
ROTFLOL!
He’s already got the beginnings of a uniform — make him an Astronaut and ship him into space!
He’s so holy, let ‘im sing “Nearer My God To Thee!!”
Yeah, thass the ticket!!! :)
A surprisingly even handed profile of Fitz at the WaPo, foreshadowing the coming swiftboating if a guilty verdict is reached.
The reporter even followed a quote trashing Fitz by ex-senator Fred Thomson with his affiliation as a member of the team raising cash for Libbey, rather than as someone with no axe to grind.
This just in:
“The Libby jury has asked for Cheney’s neck size”
[CHS says: Love you. Please see here. And then tell me that you were saying this because Libby wants to outfit Dick with some new Brooks Brothers shirts or something equally innocuous, because I know you weren’t just implying something that could in any way be misconstrued.]
Is that a patriotic pig tatoo on Joe’s arm?
Hilarious, now we have the Pork Party (hey, don’t they all belong to that one?!?)