
No verdict was rendered by the close of court yesterday. Which means the jury will come back in this morning and resume deliberations on the Libby case. And that we all get to sit back and continue to wait.
So many folks have asked about bits and pieces of what it was like watching the trial, about the people involved, about so many aspects of the case. As I was reading back through the comments yesterday — once I got home from DC, got The Peanut settled into bed, and my laptop back out of its travel bag — a couple of comments in particular caught my eye. I think these truly sum up what has been going through my mind through the whole trial, from opening statements all the way through summations.
First, this one from selise, who found an audio link to the press conference that Patrick Fitzgerald gave upon the indictment of Scooter Libby:
here's my (belated) contribution on something to do while waiting for the jury…
while i am extraordinarily grateful to marcy for her liveblogging… i am also sad to know that i will never hear fitz's closing. there's something lost in reading a liveblogging or a transcript of a spoken communication. i love both methods of communication – but they are quite different things, the spoken word and a written communication.
so, i went back and listened to fitz's oct, 28th 2005 press conference when he announced the libby indictment (transcript here).
here's something that stood out for me on this listening:
…the truth is the engine of our judicial system. And if you compromise the truth, the whole process is lost.
gives some extra context to yesterday's (from marcy's liveblog):
He stole the truth of the judicial system. You return guilty you give truth back.
And then there is this comment from Carolyn in Baltimore:
I expect to be out of touch by phone and email all of next week. When I expect the jury may come in. So I totally need to let go.Christy’s remarks hit me – Valerie Plame Wilson is a victim but not THE victim of Scooters lies, at least to the FBI and GJ. Fitz may be a major victim – because his investigation of other crimes was hampered by him.
But the largest victim is all of us – we who who have been told our entire lives to trust our officials – that they may make mistakes but that republicans and democrats alike, our elected officials and their minions are there to protect us and make our government work for the people.
They are our servants and they betrayed us.
That is why I too am waiting anxiously to see that there is some justice left in the USA.
This is what I was getting at the morning of summations — but Carolyn's comments were far more succinct. Thanks so much for that.
And, in case you somehow missed these, Froomkin has been on fire the last couple of days. I got to see Dan at the courthouse on Tuesday — he had come to watch summations as well — and he distilled the "cloud over Cheney" exceptionally well in this column, as well as hits the high points from the openings here. Great stuff.
And Sidney Blumenthal has a great summary of the closing arguments up at Salon. I had the pleasure of sitting with Sidney in court on Tuesday, and during breaks we spent time discussing our impressions of how the jury was or was not buying the various arguments that were made by counsel during their summation presentations. Sidney has such marvelous insight into the political landscape within the Beltway, and he was of the opinion that Fitzgerald's rebuttal, in particular, was going to prove devastating — not just to the jury, but to the shreds of what is left of Dick Cheney's reputation. Based on how fidgety Mrs. Libby became during the rebuttal, I'd say that, on some level anyway, she may have agreed, and that had to be very, very difficult for her to sit through, to be perfectly honest.
Do read Sidney's piece this morning. I hope to have some more thoughts on it later, along with my own regarding the summations and the whole of the trial, because the discussion Sidney has therein regarding the implications and the dismissive tone of Team Libby toward journalists, in particular, ought to serve as a cautionary tale for a whole lot of people. (But that discussion deserves a post all by itself, so it will have to wait until I've had more coffee.)
Finally, I want to give a huge hat tip to reader Raph Levien who took the time to follow-up on the Scott Shane mis-write in the NYTimes piece from the other day. Thanks so much for doing that Raph, because I have not had time to track anything down between all the keeping the site running under heavy traffic, the 24-hour stomach flu that The Peanut had last week, the travel back and forth to DC, and all the post writing — and I really appreciate your efforts to get to the bottom of that, very much. From Raph:
Final closure on the NYT blogger press credentials thing. I heard from one Scott Shane at the NYT, who says that the court official, Sheldon Snook, gave Cox the credentials first, and others later. I appreciate their attention to getting to the truth on this minor point, and am willing to give Cox the benefit of the doubt that maybe he had good reasons for waiting to announce his credentials. I don’t see any reason to flog the issue any more.
So, it turns out that Shane got information from Shelly, the court clerk who is a wonderful person (thanks again to Shelly and Jenna and all of the wonderful court personnel, including the very nice marshalls), and attributed it inaccurately to Bob Cox of the MBA. If you missed Raph's multiple e-mail attempts to track things down in the comments, I wanted to be certain everyone saw what he was able to nail down for all of us. See, a little elbow grease, some questions and a lot of e-mail can sometimes get a good result. Thanks, Raph!
So, what's on your mind this morning? Have that stack of magazines or some Coltrane on the CD player or something else to keep you occupied while we all wait for the verdict?
(Is the jury back yet?)



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Good morning to all, as we virtually pace back and forth…
I’m reminded of the scene in “Moonstruck” when they are sitting around the kitchen table waiting for Cher’s fiance to arrive so she can tell him she is in live with his brother. The tension is high, and they are all sitting there in silence. Finally, the grandfather says “someone tell a joke!”
Good morning everyone. I know Jeralyn is a defense attorney and therefore, she has that built in bias, but her analysis made me nervous. But I do certainly have plenty to keep me busy here and yet somehow I’m still on this computer…
The bottom line is, Fitzgerald had better hope he never, and I mean NEVER, has to go up against Marcy or Christy. They make Wells and Jeffress look like Beavis and Butt-head.
I’ve been thinking about the enormity of what all y’all are doing. I get up each morning and, instead of going to the “news” sites, I head immediately to FDL to get the straight skinny on the Scooter/Shooter trial. And it occurred to me (yesterday, actually) that there ought to be a major national award for what you’re doing. It’s not journalism, because you’re steadfastly telling the truth. It’s not MSM, because you’re not in thrall to Cheney and Bush. Ideas, fellow pups?
Morning all — I accidentally hit publish this morning instead of “save and continue,” so if you’ll refresh your screen, you’ll get the rest of what I was trying to write. Oops. Sorry about that. I’m really tired this morning and have only had half a cuppa coffee at this point.
How is everyone this morning?
Fitz
Good Morning Christy and Firedogs -
apparently we are all pretty geeked up waiting on our 12 fellow citizens –
endured this current state of mind only twice before – the day before my wedding and a certain Tuesday last November
. . .“Oh Captain Butler, the best days are when verdicts come”
listening to everything raucous I can get my hands on – lots of Robert Randolph tubes : )
Fitz’s summation (and Marci’s capture of it) was outstanding. It clearly reviewed the major points and made crystal clear what is at stake.
Fitz and his team also are a reminder that our government is not just the amoral political appointees.
Thanks to everyone involved with these posts. I’ve been reading your work since the scandal and investigation started and I’ve learned a tremendous amount.
barbara — it is journalism, in the strictest sense, perhaps even more so than what the media provides today.
FDL and many other blogs provide a daily journal of events, documented from the perspective of citizens — citizen journalism.
Because they are not beholden to anyone for a paycheck from their work, they are able to be absolutely, devastatingly honest as to what they see and their opinion about it, not worrying about some boss peering over their shoulder or a personnel evaluation. Granted, we all of us are editors; we’re here if we like what we read, we’re pretty brutal at times about grammar, typos, format, content. But it’s this instant feedback process that makes this dynamic, not static. It’s this instant feedback process and the continuous loop of communications between writers and readers that is so damned threatening to the traditional media; their business model can’t handle feedback from readers that is faster than feedback from their corporate owners and their corporate advertising customers.
Too bad for them. And bravo to FireDogLake for being so incredibly fleet and nimble while finding and telling the truth.
Good Morning Christy and All! Tick-tock, tick-tock, the the Time of Justice approaches. If you all think the waiting is tought I woould guess it much tougher for the people directly involved. Think Scooter and Shooter are having upset tummies this morning?
If you pace long enough, it counts as aerobic exercise.
Coffee’s ready, Redd – hold out your cup!
Morning!
It’s gonna be a long day, I think.
egregious — heh. I’m trying to figure out how to mount my laptop on my treadmill even now.
Good morning Christy et al.
I sent out a message to the MA Rootsters proposing a verdict get together. This has been an intense experience for many and no matter the outcome, we need to have others to share it with.
Meanwhile, I went to the library online to try to find a copy of Costa Gavras’ movie Z. I’ve been wanting to see it again for a long time. One of the satellite libraries not far from me has it so I’m going to go over and get it this morning.
selise is right about Fitz and his passion for the truth coming out in his appearances. Had he been a Starr-like prima donna, we might be turned off by repeated flourishes and dramatic appeals for the truth, but because he is not, it makes it real, and important, and essential to the real feelings that most of us want to have about our government. From Fitz it is NOT a clich. That’s what makes it so powerful.
Check out Daniel Henninger’s editorial in today’s WSJ. He says the trial of I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby is the closest version of a Red Queen trial this country has had in a long time. Alice in Wonderland. Cuz you see Valerie was NOT covert. Blah, blah, blah.
I had to read it twice.
But this is actually good news, because it is a sure tip-off that the Bush/Cheney cabal is sure Libby is gonna be found guilty as charged on all counts, and this is the big set up for the pardon.
What ELSE could this drivel be?
Nothing since the live television coverage of the Watergate hearings has been equaled by the Liveblogging done here for illuminating the malfeasance of power gone mad. Truly Magnificently and Historically done by all.
Unfortunatly EPU’d from Madness, Madness, Madness by Scotian @ 182 here: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-515554 There is an addage that comes to mind: “Take great care as to the enemy you choose, you become like them” It looks like Russia got the better end of that emnity. The US got Fascism, Nazism, Stalinism, etc., authoritarianisms all to become like.
Back to the lurk, all the best……
John Palcewski @ 16
push back. They are worried. Yeah!
today, mostly suburban domestic: staying around the house with my kids, who are on winter break. will check back frequently.
one enjoyable diversion yesterday: going to a batting cage and taking batting practice with my son, ahead of his little league tryout. nothing as satisfying as swinging hard and hitting a pitched ball well. and when you think…this one’s scooter (WHAP!), this one’s judy (BAM!), here’s the dickster (CRUNCH!)…well, it’s highly recommended.
Well, IANAL, but folks, chill a bit. This is a five-count indictment with an enormously complex set of facts, assertions and counter-assertions for the jury to deliberate. And if they’re doing their job, they WILL debate all of it. In other words, it’s gonna take a while. To while away the while, I suggest a good book, good music, good food and the Oscar-winners marathon they’re showing on one of the movie channels.
I have an all-day workshop on how to carve an acanthus bracket. So that’s me all settled for the day. :)
Those who are worrying about the jury make-up (too white and too upper class) forget its most important feature: it is very well-educated. An educated jury, some of whose members can still probably remember the quadratic equation from high school, is going to have a much harder time swallowing the “I forgot” defense. It will also be far more receptive to a closing that weaves a detailed review of the evidence together with a careful discussion of the law (which characterizes the prosecution’s closing and its rebuttal). Such a jury will also give careful weight to the reasonable doubt standard. In this case, the jury favors the prosecution, but I have certainly defended criminal cases in which an educated jury was a key to my client’s acquittal. I predict a guilty verdict late Friday or by mid-day on Monday.
Rayne @ 14
The day we were waiting for the little one’s college acceptance/rejection I literally could not stay sitting down. It’s kind of like that now, just not so personal.
Maybe a good day to look at that backlog of work on my desk or if really desperate, housecleaning. [I run the charity from home to save money on an office.]
Put all that excess energy to use.
We could talk about other issues but I doubt that we could focus on much else for long. Maybe worth a try. We could talk about what next, anyway, in the post partum era.
I believe that Barbara Bush said something like “Truth is for little people.”
Oh, and if anyone is looking for interesting and illuminating reading material that’s not too dense, try C S Lewis’ science fiction trilogy. For grown-ups. Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra and esp That Hiddeous Strength. If you are only going to read one right now, THS is a book for situation we are in. Gotta dash.
egregious @ 12
That’s the ticket!
dalloway,
agree, agree, agree, think we will be waiting for a while
so hey Firedogs, why not give your Congresscritter a shout while we wait and ask them just what the hell they are doing about Building 18 -
Contact Your Congresscritter
remember -
Phone calls and faxes carry more weight than e mails. Politely remind them you will be following up and do just that
and how about an LTE to pass the time ?
If we’re really just sitting around, could some kind person explain how to post a graphic on a blog? I follow the directions, only to end up with a red square with a little X.
Unless I was hoping to display a red square with a little X as my graphic, then something is missing.
Thanks in advance.
I’m just hoping that today’s the day for a verdict. I’ll be very disappointed if there are no convictions. Hope nobody was watching Imus this morning. Bob Schieffer was one of my favorite newsmen, but no more. He was sayin’ how he didn’t think this trial should have taken place because of its ill effects on a “free press.” Apparently he can’t tell the difference between a free press and one that has been pressed into the service of the government. Apparently the “free press” feels no shame at the fact that they’ve allowed their talents to be hijacked by politicos who have charmed them, like svengalis, into putting out propaganda. They have demonstrated their willingness, nay, eagerness to be used in an abhorent fashion to lie us into war and to lie to us about how that war was going. They have been prevailed upon not to give reports that were not government approved, not to tell us about illegal secret prisons, that the government (which, in this country, is us) employs torture as a tactic, prisoner abuse and any number of other illegal activities this administration has resorted to in the pursuit of a shadow they like to call international terrorism. They have been threatened with prison if they do not divulge who told them about illegal NSA spying. They are becoming complicit in remaking our country into a police state, but Bob Scheiffer’s concern is that they may lose their access. Too bad he isn’t more concerned that they have already lost their integrity, because I’ll never be able to look at him the same again.
attagirl!
Ann in AZ @ 29
iirc, schieffer’s brother is a member of the bush administration. so as far as his concerns about access..um, please pass the salt…
thank you christy for the
cuppa truth this morning.
laptop in backpack
backpack on bicycle
pedaling from wi fi to wi fi
thankful that the paneras are conveniently spaced
Go Fitz!
Well, once again, I have headed to FDL as soon as I possibly could and read everything from yesterday that I missed, and now this!
This cannot continue. You would not believe the things I am not getting done! However, I do want to once again thank FDL for providing me with the most virtuous way to “waste” time I have ever encountered, I don’t even feel guilty.
Speaking of guilt and lawyers. I think that it is becoming more and more obvious that the Libby defense was overmanaged. I remember being quite nervous when reading the accts of the jury selection, thinking that Fitz was being too passive and that we were going to end up with enough rw nut cases to really gum up the works. I am sure that is what the Libby team was hoping. BOTOH, they assumed that any jury from DC would be predominantly African-American and so that got Wells, and for that reason had to make him the lead attny (though from what I have read, Jeffress would’ve been a better choice). So in their efforts to manage every single detail of the trial, they lost control of it, which is just what happened with the Joe/Valerie Wilson matter.
And that image of Libby taking notes during the Judge’s instruction. Even I would know how bad that looks. There he sits. Focused on Every. little. detail. Would I believe a guy like that just forgets stuff?
No way. And a well educated jury who knows what it is to remember all sorts of details in order to function on a daily basis is not going to buy it either. And if it is indeed a moderately republican jury, then their conservatism will not help Libby either; Bush and esp Cheney is not popular with this old-line, main-line old fashioned kind of republican. Just think what Barry Goldwater would say about all this.
At any rate, I am sorry for the length of this, but I would love to hear more about your impressions of the whole scene around the Defense table (& Christy, were you there the day that Victoria Toensing went up and sat down there?).
Woodhall at 33 — I didn’t see Victoria Toensing any of the days that I was in DC. But then, I wasn’t exactly looking for her, either. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 33
i think you would have smelled her if she was nearby.
On my mind this morn:
Of course, verdict watch. Plenty of online editing work to keep me occupied, though. FDL remains open in the corner on my screen for any updates…
Juan Cole’s blog read daily for all things ME that you don’t get on telly-
http://www.juancole.com/
Pat Lang’s insightful commentary on Walter Reed titled “Bureaucracy’s Cost”-
http://turcopolier.typepad.com…..ys_co.html
btw, gang — Dana Priest will be doing a national security chat today at 12:30 pm ET at the WaPo, incase anyone wants to submit questions in advance.
Ann in AZ @ 29
This is a very interesting topic which deserves to be fleshed out. I have been watching PBS’s Frontline News Wars (the 1st 2 episodes are available for viewing online at PBS) and there are signs that prosecuters around the country are using the subpoenas of Miller and Cooper to go after real investigative journalists, like the ones who broke the Barry Bonds steroid issue. (Another favorite on PBS is AIR–America’s Investigative Reporters.) I think they want to see Fitz loose this case because they are hoping that it will discourage other prosecutors pursuing cases in which journalists are subpoenaed.
What I don’t see is any soul searching as to how they got themselves into this mess, except perhaps on the part of Bill Keller. He did say that he didn’t think that they should’ve gone to bat for Miller because it was not a worthy case (Judy was too contaminated–and it is obvious that was what he was really saying). It is also worth noting that in spite of the Miller fiasco, the NYT did publish the NSA wiretap story, in spite of the fact that Keller and Sulzberg were summoned to the Oval Office and told that they would be ruining an important national security program. They published anyway.
My personal opinion is that what is now known as journalism should be split into two separate professions: The News, which is really info-entertainment, and journalism which is investigative, thoughtful and analytical.
Into the stillness of the waiting pool, I’ve plopped another small PayPal donation. Thanks to all for all the excellent reportage, analysis, and commentary.
Isn’t this also about one branch of the federal government sliming another?
In my opinion this is another putrid manifestation of the executive branch under Bush failing to recognize and respect the legitimacy of the other co-equal branches. They don’t think they owe the truth to the federal judicial system or Congress.
The tragic results of this arrogance fills the news every damn day.
I’m way into believing our media are not bright enough to grasp big pictures. Charlie Gibson reportedly said the Libby indictment is beyond his understanding. Is this true ignorance; i.e., much more than willful ignorance?
Schieffer exemplifies the major network anchors. They get together to discuss whether the media is as bad as some say and at the end agree they are wonderful purveyors of the news, and the viewers are nothing but bumpkins. If they were capable of analyzing the facts, they might be able to deduce people are getting their information from the Internet because the media prima donnas almost without exception are not doing their jobs and haven’t been for quite a long time.
I want to thank all the FDL crew for covering the Libby trial. On more than one occasion I would slip and tell friends that I was watching the trial. The transcripts and descriptions were so vivid that I actually felt that I was there. Thanks again.
why do I hear the Jeopordy theme song in my head?
John Palcewski (16) –
Any chance you have a link to that WSJ op-ed?
‘Cuz WSJ is like Cheney’s right hand; if it’s in WSJ, it’ll give us a pretty strong insight into Cheney’s thought process.
Although I will have to get out the mind bleach, I’m sure.
demit at 39 — Thanks much. Really appreciate it.
Am sitting here this morning with my cuppa coffee, some Mozart on in the background, and watching my feeders as I wait for word from the jury.
To paraphrase Fitz:
Truth is the engine of all humanity. If you compromise Truth, all humanity is lost.
Let’s think about that the next time we tweak the truth to our child, spouse, parent, friend, neighbor, coworker, etc… and to our own self.
I passed some time this morning with my dog. I gave him a nice warm bath with a soothing oatmeal conditioner. Boy was he happy after that! I got a kick out of watching him run from room to room so excited. He’s a Dachshund and man can he run, I think I might enter him in the weiner dog races this spring at the Wurstfest in Herman, Mo.
OldCoastie @ 43
Sorry, I will stop humming it.
Christy, may I recommend a clock for future ‘Not yet’ posts?
The Prague Astronomical Clock is very cool. As is the city.
twolf1 @ 48
thanks, twolf – it was starting to annoy me
;-)
The MSM will never, ever cover this trial as it should be (and is here at FDL) because they themselves are on trial every bit as much as Libby, Cheney and all the rest. Expecting unbiased coverage from them is the same as expecting an unbiased report of the trial from Libby or Cheney.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 45
That sounds heavenly.
Heh — I don’t have to worry about stuff to keep me busy, I have to catch up on all the work I haven’t really been doing the past few weeks, since I can no longer pretend that the task I was assigned is “much more difficult than I expected.”
However, I started feeling rotten yesterday evening, and right now I’m trying to decide if I’m well enough to go to work after sleeping in an extra hour.
Say, does anyone know of some kind of alert service we can subscribe to that will let us know when there’s a verdict, for those of us who can’t check as obsessively as we would like? (Quicker and more specific than RSS.)
cbl @
27
-uh- did that multiple X, during some of the liveblog as a matter of fact. (now THAT’s dedication! I was chasing the EPU’d tail of every thread from then on, puff puff)
Seriously, if I contact the little darlings again this week, I’ll be dumped in the “seriously-disturbed crank” basket for sure. But then, that’s a noble title to wear in these trying times, eh?
Anyway.. Morning Everyone!
How ’bout a Peabody award for FDL? Isn’t that what Jon Stewart got, thereby aggravating all the old fogies in the MSM? I’d like to see the old fogies seriously annoyed again. That was fun!
Hey Bob Scheiffer -
COMPARE
. . . AND CONTRAST
egregious – posted image for you over at my place – simply by following the instructions for posting pics -
Blogger Help
but dear god, have no clue how to post graphic above title
egregious @
28
egregious, are you using the new blogger? I just did it… Insert picture, use the browse to find it, select location (left, right, etc), then upload.
I did have to check a box which indicated terms of service also…
It seems like the MSM has really dialed back its coverage of this trial. Dana Milbank’s comments on KO last night were a real buzzkill. He is of th opinion that after this trial is over, Fitz is done.
you’re gonna LOVE what palosi did to cheney
check this out from think progress, bolds are mine;
you see that bold?
that’s what we have to do, spin these morons on their ear every time they even THINK making claims opposite of reality
they CLAIM they are for our troops when every single thing they’ve done harms our troops, they CLAIM they are protecting national security when every decision they’ve made has brought harm to our national security
create the environment where they are rue to even suggest criticizing the democrats, the REAL patriots and protectors of this great nation
cbl—thanks!
Pat—yes I am on the new Improved! blogger.
twolf1 @ 48
And WHO keeps clicking their pen?? Tick tick tick tick
Oh wait, that’s my clock :)
dalloway @ 20
Yes, I was thinking that it’s unlikely they’ll reach a verdict for several days. Our courtroom observers say the jurors took a lot of notes and seemed to be very attentive, so my guess is that the verdict won’t come in until sometime next week. (Of course, I’m sure many of the jurors would like to wrap it up before the weekend so they can get on with their lives. There probably will be at least one juror who will put pressure on to come to agreement by tomorrow afternoon. The question is: do the jurors feel confident enough with their analysis to wrap it up in two days?)
Question for the lawyers & law experts out there: in a trial like this, with so much detail and high-visibility, would you expect that the verdict would take a while to come down? Also, does a long deliberation period (i.e. five days or more) give you the sense that they’re more likely to acquit on some or all charges? Or, that there is just some deadlock they are trying to break? Just curious what your experience is.
I’m out of coffee – Mr. LOTF guzzled down a lot this morning. Gonna have to make myself a cappuccino. Then, it’s to the work table… though I can check in with FDL often today :)
Rayne @ 14
That is a good one Rayne!
long walk in the French countryside with my dog, huge pot of chicken soup and vegetables brewing…compatriots round the world watch and wait.
egregious @ 61
all u nailbiters out there – yer mom just called… i’m s’posed to tell ya ta stop it…
oops! sorry mods… hope i didn break nothin’
LurkNoMore @ 51
If Libby is convicted, and if Fitz doesn’t make a clear statement that no further investigations are underway or will be conducted, then I think the MSM will jump on it. They will still be a wee bit sheepish, as this trial has exposed how close many in the media are with the admin, and it has demonstrated that journalism & ethics don’t go hand-in-hand. But, I think they’ll be on it if they smell a potential investigation of Cheney… especially if Rove has flipped for Cheney.
Heck, even if Libby’s convicted and Fitz closes the investigations down, I still think this will get decent coverage – there will be a “pardon watch”, I’m sure.
squirrel hiller @ 35
Sulphur, or waaaaay too much perfume? (My guess it might be a combination of both)
Balrog: I’d rather see a Hague clock.
http://www.eurotrib.com/user/uid:241/diary
Marie Roget @ 36
Of course, verdict watch. Plenty of online editing work to keep me occupied, though. FDL remains open in the corner on my screen for any updates…
Yabbut yabbut, FDL — (being a simple blog, unlike whatever is driving HufPo) — just sits there until you explicitly think to Refresh; that’s the only way you’ll learn from here that a verdict impends.
What I do is leave the FDL “gabbly chat” window
open with its “enter/exit” (the two-feet icon at the bottom of the gabbly window) and “new post” (the leetle bell icon next to it) functions turned ON. (Of course, I also leave my computer’s speakers ON and loud enough to hear from elsewhere in my house)…
So, when verdict stuff begins to happen, and in the hopes that “the usual gang” gathers over in GabblyVille, :) (heyo Rayne, Shez, halobeam, cbl, Mr.Murder, Cletus, Pat_AlexVA, Lindy, jeffreyw, Lindy, KestrelBrighteye, LaFourmiRouge, leinie, Neil, TJ, Strategerie, Aaron G Stock, … sorry if I forgot to mention YOU :) ) my computer will begin to beep and boop at me, recruiting my attention. QED, problem solved. I’ll be there if and when the jury returns its verdict! ‘Cause Gabbly is “push-based” rather than “pull-based” as the web normally is.
Gabbly is a fun kinda chat-app. Using it doesn’t burden FDL’s servers at all. It’s a good place to discuss any sort of Libby-related stuff at a far faster pace than is possible in these threads.
Rayne introduced it and imho it’s cool. Sometimes we get harrassed by hackers, in which case we retreat to a private redoubt. Others of us know how to get its URL to you without publishing it here. If you need its URL, please post your request in an FDL comment string.
If you wanna “listen and wait for the news and join in the gabble” when the verdict hits, C U over in chat-land. Remember, because Gabbly runs on a completely other server somewhere on the ‘net, using it takes some of the heavy load off the FDL servers!
Hint: Use two browser windows. Put the above URL in one, and the real FDL (this one) in the other. Position the windows where you can see both the chat about FDL and the real FDL. (Remember to turn Gabbly’s sounds and your computer’s sound on, and loud enough to wake the dead… :) Refresh only the REAL FDL window.
Go jury, give us back the truth! All hail Fitz and the entire (((FDL Crew))), additional best loyal vibes to ((((Jane)))) — and Godspeed to us all.
Some of us took notice in the gabbly chat of the slow (or no) loading during part of the day while in closing arguments, speculation of a DOS attack, then the site began loading at a much improved rate. Anything nefarious? Or was it just normal heavy load behavior? And let me add my thanks for everyone involved, all the talent and the hidden techs. Well done, indeed.
ccmask @ 68
Too vague.
Good morning everybody. “I got to know, I got no expectations,” sung to the Rollings Stones song goin’ round my head. Just plunkin’ in to say thanks, and Marcy, Reddhedd, & Jane you certainly could play yourselfs in this ‘epic movie,”Scooter Meets Anna Nicole.’ w/Woody Allen and Genna Davis in supporting roles.
old gold @ 40
I wish it filled the news every day…
The British have pacified southern Iraq so successfully that they are planning on leaving…..
“An Iraqi security source said Thursday that two British military bases in Basra, which has a predominantly Shiite population, had been
bombarded with rocket-propelled grenades in the past 24 hours.”
So what will the place look like when the last helicopter flies out?
-GSD
“And Sidney Blumenthal has a great summary of the closing arguments up at Salon.”
Just finished reading the article -
a highly readible, sharp two page summation.
Thank you Firedoglake for all the work!
Admirable.
gaspard @ 63
Compatriots round the world- like the ring of that…
In honor of gaspard while we’re all waiting, a photo of the Strasbourg Astronomical Clock (saw it many years ago- it really is impressive):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I….._clock.jpg
> I’ve been thinking about the enormity
> of what all y’all are doing.
Just a pendantic point: that should be “…the enormousness of what…”.
What Libby and Cheney are engaged in is an “enormity”.
Cranky
*ilbo @ 72
Yabbut what’s supporting Geena Davis? :)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 37
thanks much for the heads-up. there’s a MSM reporter who deserves a medal.
A few people have referred to the corporate media as Pravda. While we’re all waiting I think others might like to read a cautionary tale from the New Yorker 1/29/07 article: Kremlin, Inc. by Michael Specter about the dangers of the media becoming agents of government. Very scary stuff, starting with the murder of Anna Politkovskaya, special correspondent for a small liberal newspaper.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/…..ct_specter
This trials’ outcome will pull down this criminal administration or our democracy. Give us back the truth.
It’s worth the read. And thanks FDL for this front row seat into the bowels of power.
After all those interminable sidebars, when the jury was left twiddling its thumbs in the jury room, I have this image of the jury returning the favor.
“OK, last page . . . guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Check. That does it. Now, how long should we sit back here and make them wait for us, like we waited for them?”
I’m trying to recover from the flu and write a white paper – but it’s hard to concentrate on anything other than wondering what’s going on in the jury room.
I would encourage everyone to read the Sidney Blumenthal article that Christy recommends. He provides a great summary of closing arguments and he really hits on the major themes, including BushCo’s absolute contempt for the media – using them as patsies to forward their agenda.
My question to Christy – how could anyone keep a straight face when Wells tried to portray NBC as “not a friendly network” to the Bush admin? I guess he forgot about Matalin’s notes and Cathie Martin’s comments about Meet the Press.
Peterr @ 82
;->
I’ve just been pondering the immediate effect of a Libby acquittal. While it could only plausibly be on burden of proof / reasonable doubt grounds, I can just hear the Cat 5 wingnut shitstorm spin cycle hyperbolic indignation spewing forth (abetted yet again by the MSM) about how it dispositively proves and Libby and Cheney did nothing wrong — that Cheney in particular is now vindicated.
‘Nothin’ else to see here, folks, everybody just move along now…’
That what I dread having to listen to.
_
S.O.S. you should have a stateroots project e-mail waiting for you.
Question for the lawyers & law experts out there: in a trial like this, with so much detail and high-visibility, would you expect that the verdict would take a while to come down? Also, does a long deliberation period (i.e. five days or more) give you the sense that they’re more likely to acquit on some or all charges? Or, that there is just some deadlock they are trying to break? Just curious what your experience is.
I’m out of coffee – Mr. LOTF guzzled down a lot this morning. Gonna have to make myself a cappuccino. Then, it’s to the work table… though I can check in with FDL often today :)
Long deliberations on this case will not be helpful to Libby. At best it will mean an acquittal on some counts and a conviction on the rest. In terms of sentencing, this would be a Pyhrric victory. I still think the verdict will come in late Friday or mid-day Monday. The late Friday scenario assumes that the jurors are in agreement and feel that two and a half days is sufficient time. Monday assumes that they want the weekend to think about it.
Good morning, lots of reading above. So I’m late to the coffee klatch.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but after reading Sidney, it seems to me that the voire dire may actually come back to bite the defense in the ass. You know, all the questions about Cheney, who actually never came up directly until the cloud. Then, boom. Pouring down on everyone all at once.
Why make such a big deal in the voire dire about Cheney? Why use that as a way to dismiss anyone. Unless, well, the cloud.
Peterr @ 81
Please Lord, if it’s a GUILTY verdict, don’t let it hit during the Friday Afternoon News Dump!!!
BobbyG @ 85
‘ere. borrow my paper bag… now – b-r-e-a-t-h-e… – again -
Shooter is getting a very nice greeting by the Aussies. Click on the audio links where he’s called “the war criminal that he actually is”.
Come on jurors…make justice happen!
dab at 83 — It wasn’t easy, but after years of trial work, I’ve learned to keep a straight face in court lest I tick off the presiding judge. *g* It helped knowing that the Cathie Martin quote would come back to haunt Wells in the rebuttal. And it did.
I thought that was “John Coltrane on the stereo, baby
Thoughts on the future (’cause I have trouble taking my own advice to stop thinking about the verdict): If, as Fitz said, this trial is about throwing sand in the umpire’s eyes, then a conviction should lead to further investigation and/or indictments, provided Libby can at last be compelled to tell the truth. If he still stonewalls, will we know about it or will Fitz’s mandate quietly expire with no further comment? If he ‘fesses up, how soon do we think Cheney will be called before the GJ, to testify under oath for the first time?
I think FDL should adopt a new motto: GIVE US BACK THE TRUTH!
Thanks for the reminder, S.O.S. in MA @ 70- I’m actually quite anal about refreshing both FDL & all my other windows :)
Woodhall Hollow at 38 says:
Pretty much, I agree with you. However, many members of the press have gotten fat and lazy and are use to a lifestyle of the rich and famous. Something I failed to address in my comment is how the press’ credibility has been eroded due to their complacency and willing to do the government’s bidding. When it all went south and we all found out much of what the press was spewing forth was untrue (something which certain elements of the government still deny…think Feith, Cheney, et al)they were embarrassed, whether they admit it or not. Many in the free press have a lot to answer for. Unfortunately, due to the law of unintended consequences, good, hard working journalist like Dana Priest, Seymour Hersh, Walter Pincus and even Murray Waas and Dan Froomkin are also likely to be caught in the wrong net. I wish it could be otherwise, but when journalists insist on becoming part of the problem instead of part of the solution, and when they become active participants and accomplices in government crimes, what are you gonna do?
Bobby G the trial by itself opened the door to further investigations by Congress. It also painted the media as spokemen for the administration. The civil trial should also be interesting.
I’m still betting on the lone wingnut holdout, hung jury.
Hey, Adie, I’ve been wanting to tell you that your story about looking for Marcy’s book, searching all around the shop with the salesclerk, gave me such a giggle. Great story!
Hi folks, I had a thought about how to counter some of the right-wing noise on this trial:
It’s not a trial about a defensive lie, or a bad memory, or about outing a (apparently) covert agent, or even about just mishandling classified information. This is a trial about concealing treason.
Sure, the Treason hasn’t been proven in court yet, or even a formal indictment made, but that’s because Fitz has to break thru the concealment first.
But damaging the ability of the CIA to track and counter the spread of WMDs, during a time of ‘war’, is Treason. It doesn’t matter if Plame was formally covert or if her status was classified information, it’s the potential damage to the national security of the US that counts. If you look at the original Libby indictment, it’s clear from the language used that much bigger laws than the IIPA are involved here, and Fitz knows it.
I think this should be our catchphrase for this trial: “Concealing Treason”
Marie Roget @ 95
Ooh, I bet that smarts… :)
The notion I was pushing (pun intended) was that Gabbly is virtually certain do what you’re doing (inform you about when the VERDICT is arriving) without putting any extra-refreshing burden on the FDL servers… But like any web-app, it’s an acquired taste. LOL :)
portia.vz @ 58
Nah, he claimed that Fitz has said there’s no more after this. Since that’s simply untrue, and since other stuff he said about the trial (like whether Libby could make a deal after being convicted) was simply wrong, I’m not too worried about Milbank’s opinion. At best he’s a political reporter who hasn’t bothered to learn anything about legal proceedings, at worst he’s in the tank.
Good Morning, Firepups!
OT, I heard a great interview with Tony Blair this morning on BBC radio. The journalist was a real terrier: he repeatedly asked Blair if Britain and the US didn’t bear responsibility for the chaos in Iraq. Here’s a link to a summary. It was amazing to listen to a journalist doing his/her job, unlike the lapdogs we have in US media.
clock:
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/what.html
resident:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/hist…..dence.html
theme:
http://www.literature.org/auth…..heart.html
Pfifferling @
99
You’re sweet. I do know how to be a pest when necessary. *g* Story was true! Didn’t embellish a bit. If we hadn’t been having such rotten weather lately, I would have gone back to the store long before now to lurk & hope to see a nice big stack of Marcybooks on their most prominent table. ;->
Cranky Observer @ 78
damn,…you really are cranky. I would venture to say that my ginormous grammatical transgressions would nudge you into madnicity.
:-)
bookwoman @ 91
I ran across an annoying/amusing Australian news article yesterday. Annoying because apparently the New South Wales government rushed through a change in their gun laws so that Cheney’s security detail could carry firearms, or else he would have skipped going to Sydney. Funny because they closed out the article with a brief description of how he shot his friend in the face, including a link to the exact weapon used. Since the article was about a gun control law, I can see how that seemed relevant. :-)
“Give him back to me! Give him back!”
(Spelling just slightly off)
RevDeb @
15
Yes Fitz was great!
Wells had been reducing the case to a he said-she said memory mix-up, that it was “crazy, outrageous” for the government to try to ‘ruin a man’s life’ based on a couple of forgettable phone calls. In a new twist on the dominant male thing, Wells had his mom there in a wheel chair right in the middle of the courtroom, seeing her son get all choked up, crying, and then him supposedly not even able to look up from the table during the whole of Fitz’s rebuttal – Some juror might easily think ‘Gosh, right in front of his mom, that man must be really broke up- all because of this silly mis-recollection. Let’s give him a break, and Scooter too.’ (On top of the emotion there was enough of a rational defense to sway Jeralyn too, according to her huffpo post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..41734.html)
So in the break before he was up, Fitzgerald was pacing, mostly alone in the far corner of the court room, pent-up like a guy who knows his team (or his country) is down big points and it’s up to him. When he opened up shouting “Madness? Outrageous?” It was his last chance. He had to go all the way. He directly attacked the defensive framework Wells had constructed point by point. Not he said- she said, it was he said vs. nine he’s and she’s saying.
Wells had characterized the whole memory thing as, you know, you’ve been lying on the beach all summer, and they ask you about something from last spring- who’s gonna remember that?
Fitz – (from Emptywheel’s notes) “If someone brought to your attention, you could get some people killed, that better be important, certainly for the National Security Advisor to the Vice-President in time of war.”
During most of the trial, the war had been missing as both teams worked their way through the day’s legal details, sometimes with friendly joking. Wells was concerned about ruining Libby’s reputation. Fitz said it’s about people dying,
Wells had accused the prosecution of casting a shadow over the OVP? (From Froomkin http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..33_pf.html )
“There IS a cloud over the vice president . . . And that cloud remains because this defendant obstructed justice,” Fitzgerald said.
“There is a cloud over the White House. Don’t you think the FBI and the grand jury and the American people are entitled to straight answers?”
We won’t know until the jury returns if Pat’s run was enough to get a unanimous guilty verdict, but it did refocus the case- he said, she said? No, the investigation of a concerted effort by Cheney and Cheney’s Cheney to stifle criticism they knew was true about a world-scale crime. Like Pat said – they “ stole the truth from the justice system”, and we’re still trying to get it back.
Adie @ 84
I’ll bet the food ain’t all that great either. I notice the judge often asks if they were fed well. Have they had new t-shirts made yet?
RevDeb – how ironic. First of all, that’s one of my all time favorite movies. I remember when it came out in the late 60’s and seeing it in a movie theater in NYC. The soundtrack, by Mikis Theodorakas was amazing.
It’s a fictionalized account of the murder of a political activist in Greece during the period of the military junta (mid 60’s to mid 70’s). The generals had conspired to have the activist murdered and the movie is about the brave prosecutor and his team who unravel the conspiracy (I won’t reveal any more about the plot)
Anyway, I just ordered it from Netflixs – I guess the Libby trial sparked my desire to see it yet again.
VIDEO of Libby Indictment Press Conference
hi – if i might ask your indulgence as i suspect this has been noted previously – is there a link you could send me to get the text of the fitz’s closing? thanks.
Cheney’s toast.
another reason to wish fitz’s closing rebuttal was available to all…. (to inspire us and do what needs to be done to cheney’s rep).
hmmm… even though we can’t have the audio, maybe we can get the official transcript? has any of the trial transcripts been posted yet on pacer yet (i think that’s where you lawyer-types get this?). depending on the cost, i think it would be great (if no other news source is willing to do it) to take a collection to get the transcript and post it for all to read. what do you-all think?
still wish i could hear it, though… maybe some day, decades from now the audio will be made public.
JPL @ 96
Yeah, true (maybe) longer term, but I’m just talking about the immediate wingnut blowback spin.
bookwoman @
91
Hey. That is heartening. Thanks for the headsup ;->
I don’t know who wins the award for biggest sucker: The mainstream media for furthering the administration’s policies, or the administration, for listening to Chalabi/Miller.
ccmask @ 119
The admin wasn’t suckered, they got what they wanted.
ccmask at 118 — I’m going with (b), except we’re all paying the price for it. SIGH
I have questions about what happens next for the lawyers here at the ‘Lake. I’m sure these have been posed before, but I have not been able to read every thread.
Scenario 1: Scooter is convicted, appeals. Can he be compelled to testify in the civil case that has been brought by the Wilsons before his appeal has been decided?
Scenario 2: Scooter is convicted, and is pardoned by Bush. What happens to the civil case?
Scenario 3: Scooter is not convicted. What happens next?
No surprise to anyone here I know,
but, I have just been rolling through as many
tv news stations as I can find; scant mention of the
trial – all of them entirely consumed with the A.N.S. hearing, which borders on insanity to watch.
WHAT are the news orginizations in this country doing?
Amazing.
Sad.
Blog-on Firedoglake!
“Your Honor, if we may beg the indulgence of the court, the jury would like to be polled by showing our new t-shirts.”
(One by one, jurors strip off outershirts to reveal natty black and white shirts saying “GUILTY, All Counts”.)
Interestingly, Jeffers also has a t-shirt on. Says: “I’m With Maudlin”.
Ann in AZ @ 95
I think we are on the same page. The Libby case has exposed so many stinkholes in both the media and the government–so bad it is hard to know who is infecting who. At some point, there has got to be some serious discussion about this. I had high hopes for the Frontline special, and while there have been some good points, so far I have been dissapointed, though I will wait until I see the final two episodes before I judge it. The part has gotten to me is that so far, it seems as though Lowell Bergman can’t let go of the idea that journalists are basically heroes (worth remembering that he was the 60 minutes producer who got fired for his investigation into the tobacco industry and was played by Russell Crowe in that movie that I can’t remember the name of!), perhaps infected at this point by a few bad eggs (he really didn’t like Judy Miller!) or hampered by the corporate hacks who control the puppet strings.
They’ll find him guilty and then maybe he’ll roll on the VP to avoid jail.
Is Shooter emigrating to Australia? This would be the time to do it.
I see that Prince Harry is headed to Iraq to be a troop commander. Followed, I have absolutely no doubt, by Jenna and not-Jenna.
With all the talk yesterday by Clarice and others that the jury contained impressionable girls who swoon in presence of Wells charismatic maleness, I was interested to read in an Associated Press article that some of the girls may actually have some brains:
“The jurors include a former Washington Post reporter, an MIT-trained economist, a retired math teacher, a former museum curator, a law firm accountant, a Web architect and several retired or current federal workers.”
Christy, or other lawyers, can you comment on Libby potentially being used to testify against Cheney, if he were convicted? Wouldn’t the testimony of a convicted perjurer be totally worthless in that situation?
Ah, Dick Cheney, reviled at home, loathed abroad.
“Hostile” reception in Japan, large protests in Australia.
Remember when people used to line the streets just for a chance to see Bill Clinton?
-GSD
Bush and Cheney are the great destroyers. They are leaving a wake of misery and hatred in their path. The only places they can go for a warm reception are military bases where troops are required to behave well.
P.S.
Syrian military is beefing up.
rumi @ 106
I loves ya, Rumi! You’ve got spunkness.
My $0.02 on a verdict….
Walton will not let them hang on all counts. He will demand a verdict on some (if not all). Thus, I don’t see one random wingnut holding up the process forever. (Other jurors [will be upset with that juror otherwise.] [edited by CHS to take ou a reference that probably wasn’t intended to sound the way it did, knowing sonate, and thus I’m fixing it to be certain it can’t be taken the wrong way. E-mail if you have questions.])
If those assumptions are correct, I forecast a guilty verdict on one or two counts of perjury (relating to Scooter’s statements to Ari and his non-converstation with Timmeh), with a not-guilty on the other charges.
A not-guilty verdict on all charges is inconcevable to me. (If Fitz was able to screen-out all wingnuts from the jury pool, a guilty verdict on all charges is possible.)
.
Cheney on Meet The Press:
Videotape, March 16, 2003):
MR. RUSSERT: And even though the International Atomic Energy Agency said he does not have a nuclear program, we disagree.
VICE PRES. CHENEY: I disagree, yes. And you’ll find the CIA, for example, and other key parts of our intelligence community, disagree.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. I think Mr. ElBaradei, frankly, is wrong. And I think if you look at the track record of the International Atomic Energy Agency and this kind of issue, especially where Iraq is concerned, they have consistently underestimated or missed what it was Saddam Hussein was doing. I don’t have any reason to believe they’re any more valid this time than they’ve been in the past.
Regarding Cheney’s frequent trips to the CIA, Russert asks if he applied pressure to achieve a desired intelligence work product:
MR. RUSSERT: No pressure?
VICE PRES. CHENEY: Shouldn’t be any pressure. I can’t think of a single instance. Maybe somebody can produce one. I’m unaware of any where the community changed a judgment that they made because I asked questions.
MR. RUSSERT: If they were wrong, Mr. Vice President, shouldn’t we have a wholesale investigation into the intelligence failure that they predicted…
VICE PRES. CHENEY: What failure?
MR. RUSSERT: That Saddam had biological, chemical and is developing a nuclear program.
VICE PRES. CHENEY: My guess is in the end, they’ll be proven right, Tim.
So I say I’m not willing at all at this point to buy the proposition that somehow Saddam Hussein was innocent and he had no WMD and some guy out at the CIA, because I called him, cooked up a report saying he did.
That’s crazy. That makes no sense. It bears no resemblance to reality whatsoever.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/
frogger at 123 — That ought to have come with a neon-blinking spew warning. (HAHAHAHA “I’m with Maudlin.” You have NO idea how weird that crying jag was at the end of Wells’ summation. Bizarre does not come close to a descriptive term, let alone “cheesy” or “faux.”)
LandOfTheFree @ 62
I generally agree, but I think they’ll try hard to get it done by the weekend. They’ve been away from their lives for three weeks already. IAAL, and I think if they get into next week that will indicate some lack of consensus.
Arnie @ 17
I was in my playpen during Watergate but was working at a law firm in MD during the Iran Contra hearings. One of the lawyers and I camped out in his office watching on his tiny TV what I thought was history being made. And then … it sort of all fizzled out and I was so … shocked that seemingly “no one was paying attention.”
Not so long ago, I read Charles Beard’s Economic Interpretation of the Constitution and was again shocked that “no one was paying attention.”
And now this.
At this point little shocks me but thanks to the great coverage at FLD and the amazing group here in in the comment gallery I have finally found a little virtual home where I can learn from and listen to a whole bunch of people who are paying a great deal of attention.
THANK YOU ALL.
Christy at 133: Do you think Wells got mixed up and thought it was Oscar night instead of summation time? New category: Worst performance by a desperate defense attorney whose client is going to tank!
From what I see, Scooter has been nailed to the barn door wrt Russerts denial.
That one alone should call for a guilty charge.
I’m not greedy, I’ll take even one guilty verdict,then have Fitz start honing the knife for Shooter.
S.O.S. in MA @
79
*raises hand and volunteers*
typo FDL not FLD – sorry
thanks again:)
Woodhall Hollow at 124 says:
Absolutely, we’re on the same page. I watched both segments of the Frontline special and had a similar reaction. Guess that’s what happens when an industry tries to investigate itself. OTOH, I still intend to watch the last segments and reserve most of my judgement until then.
“It is a travesty that the Valerie Plame bump-and-run case brought Lewis Libby to the edge of this cliff.”
From Henninger’s WSJ tripe, apparently he considers treason as a simple “bump and run” situation. His bitterness ozzes from every word, his prejudice more evident with every sentence. I kept expecting to read the words “I’m melting, meelting, melti…” at the end of his piece, but not so lucky.
And this guy is the deputy editor of the WSJ?
His “poor old Scooter will never get his reputation back” whining reeks of good-old-boys, smoke-filled rooms, and private clubs where powerful men wink at each other for their wanton greed and white-collar crimes, All during this no-bid, book cooking administration, the Wall Street boys hung around like a gang of ruffians, standing by cheering on the rapists as they abused our public trust.
So when the public, indignant that they have been patently lied to, turns its irresistable winds against them, they circle their Wall Street wagons and treat us “commoners” like a bunch of wild injuns who are attacking them unfairly.
From villian to victim in one editorial, now the powerful players have become the poor victims.
Poor old Scooter…
Who did he tell?
Was he doing his job,
or just lying like hell…
Sounds like the start of a great blues song, I’ll work on it…
RevDeb @ 15 – will check my email (we’ve had a power outage this am!)… sounds great, but if it’s before next week i’m probably SOL. got strep (again!) and am waiting for the antibiotics to kick in. and, i’ve promised my sister-in-law to i’d take take my nephews for a visit as soon as i feel better.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 37
yesterday’s diane rehme show was very good:
there is an archived audio stream.
LandOfTheFree @ 62
I have tried over 100 criminal jury trials as a prosecutor and defense attorney. This case was a fairly bare bones case…no expert testimony, no scientific testimony. But proof wise, it was spoken testimony and a lot of jurors seem to forget testimony, disagree what was said, and will sometimes request testimony read back from the Court reporter. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see that happen today sometime.
Just wanted to say thank you to Jane, Christy, Emptywheel, Pach and all the others in the core that live blogged recently and helped us all understand this issue over the past 18 months. This issue made FDL my number one read (cumpulsive blog reading here and elsewhere has also managed to do serious damage to my work productivity…so perhaps a mixed blessing :-) )
Sparkatus
Sonate @ 131:
I would hope that if they can convict on the perjury count regarding Russert and possibly the other perjury count regarding what “other reporters” were telling Libby (I have my doubts as to whether they find any statements about the Cooper conversation to be false), then they should convict on the obstruction count too.
To me, the obstruction count is the most important one, as it carries the harshest penalty and it’s sort of the crux of Fitz’s case against Libby: namely that Libby’s obstruction provided a firewall for Cheney.
from: The Economist, “conservative” British journal about Cheney and the Libby trial
http://www.economist.com/world…..id=8706430
….Mr. Cheney started his career as a failed academic, dropping out of Yale after a few terms and never completing his PhD at the University of Wisconsin. But he flourished when he came to Washington: attracting the attention of Donald Rumsfeld, rapidly climbing the greasy pole, and becoming Gerald Ford’s chief of staff at the age of 34. He had found his perfect milieu.
Conspiring and manoeuvring
During his years as an insider he has acquired the typical habits of mind of veteran Washingtonians: an obsession with spin and gossip, including an over-inflated sense of the importance of newspaper articles; a hyper-sensitive nose for threats; and, it would appear, a determination to destroy his enemies by whatever means necessary……
All this still leaves the biggest question unanswered. Where did Mr Cheney get his fervour from? The average Washington insider is a consummate trimmer. Mr Cheney comes across as a man firmly in the grip of an ideology. It will take more than the Scooter Libby trial to explain him fully. But at least Americans have learned a little bit more about the power behind King George’s throne.
If anyone needs help with their arousal system without chemicals check out the http://gop.com/
site and the scrofulous presentation of the “real democratic candidates”. Is there any morality left in attempting to gain public office?
This may have been addressed in the umpteen threads I’ve had to pass up, but…
Wassup with the juror who’s a former (yes?) colleague of Woodward’s? How on earth was he not eliminated during jury selection? And is there anything to stop him writing up an account of the trial and deliberations?
Cheney’s nightmare at 132
Thank you for posting this. I have been trying to discuss Tim Russert’s dilemma to almost no effect. I do not see his questions here as softballs, and I am thankful to see them here at FDL.
I am deeply concerned that painting everyone in the mainstream media with the same brush will undermine the credibility of citizen journalism. There is not one big enemy out there that we can all despise for its ineptitude.
Sorry, Tim did his duty when the FBI interviewed him. He made that decision, apparently immediately (don’t have all the facts there).
The fact that he is part of the discussion of press privilege versus duty is part of getting paid the big bucks.
chaboard @ 138
Doesn’t count. You need to volunteer bofe hands. :)
Hey, we each have our coping mechanisms while we wait for the jury! Chaboard and I are kindred spirits! :) :)
Badwater @ 24 said: I believe that Barbara Bush said “Truth is for the little people”.
She might have, but she just quoting Abraham Lincoln according to Frank Gaffney.
Do we have a pool going on the timing of the verdict? I’ll take friday afternoon if we do.
Bustednuckles @
137
Just a teaser of a related thot, but apparently some of the protestors in Aussieland, tellin’ shooter where he can go ‘n all, are cranked up partly because of the detention of a former kangaroo-skinner in one of those loverly lawlesslockup creations shooter helped create.
http://www.centredaily.com/128/story/22137.html
hm-m-m…
FDL is Teh Best!!
Thanks for everything!
Back to chewing cuticles.
gaspard @ 64
Thanks for sharing that lovely ray of light; while I lurk from my cubicle.
gaspard @
145
Great read. Worth using the link for the cartoon alone- Cheney & his voodoo dolls…
Tic-toc, tic-toc, the Wheels of Justice are grinding on and Scooter and Shooter are getting loose bowels. Scooter probably has a pair of the NASA diapers on.
Qn for someone who has actually seen Fitz:
How tall is he?
In the photo under “Madness, Madness, . . .” yesterday, he appears to be head and shoulders above others pictured. Of course, he’s a giant in all the important ways that have nothing to do with physical height, but I’m curious.
rwcole @ 152
my perennial gripe:
!PULEEZE! NO POOL!!!
Keep the Lake pure and clear, eh?
rwcole @ 152
In a moment of levity a couple nights back, I suggested such a thing. Egregious (I believe it was) replied with the point that since FDL has become such a media cynosure because of its excellent coverage, we should prolly not sully that rep by running something so frivolous about something so serious. I agreed with that and stopped pushing it. FWIW, YMMV …
You were prolly just joshing, rwcole, so perhaps I shouldn’t have repeated my own recent misstep… :)
Reading Blumenthal’s summation of the summations warmed me on a very cold morning in Alaska. Minus 5F with 35-knot winds this AM.
To sort of expand on my previous comment, I would think that if the jury found Russert’s testimony credible, and all the other witnesses from the gov’t credible (Grossman, Grenier, Schmall, etc), then they’d almost have to convict on counts 2 and 4 (false statements and perjury regarding the Russert conversation), because the most important aspect of those counts is the idea that Scooter first learned of Plame from Russert, and used that as his cover story with other journalists.
Given the way Fitz structured the second perjury count (count 5), they may chose to convict based on the answers Libby gave to the GJ questions about how Libby sourced his Plame info to reporters, since none of the reporters that testified who spoke to Libby about Plame suggested that he ever sourced the info back to other reporters. And we know he knew about Plame from gov’t personnel too. The point is, you can chose to believe that the specific statement Libby made to Cooper *could* be true, given the discrepancy in his notes and yet still convict on Count 5 due to the other false statements Libby was alleged to have made in that count.
Finally, I think it logically follows if you convict on Count 4, that you have to believe that Libby is guilty in Count 1, at least in regards to his lies about Russert.
So my prediction is conviction on counts 1,2,4, and possibly 5, and acquittal on count 3, as it wholly relies on conversations with Cooper.
Dru @ 155
Not only Americans living abroad are very worried about the WH madness … just that you are closer to it but the effects are worldwide.
There is a fresh thread to weave.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..d/#respond
Woodhall Hollow @ 124
Great comment. I think that the admin and many “tagged” MSM members were enabling each other. Let’s hope this investigation and trial puts some limits on this type of behavior.
One of my first journalism professors insisted repeatedly that a journalist should never venture into the realm of PR. She pounded into my head the importance of always standing back and looking at your work to ensure you’re not (wittingly or unwittingly) becoming a mouthpiece to one point of view. She warned us that it is very easy to become slightly tarnished due to relationships you build in the business. I hope more journalists take heed at how carefully they must review their own biases toward or against those they befriend in power.
Sidney Blumenthal nails it, and subtly hints at the very ironic reasons for the only traction that Libby’s defence was able to make in the case:
Peterr @
82
LMAO
Christy Hardin Smith @ 6
i hope you also get a chance for a nap.
christy, you’re a hero. thank you for all you do.
Ann in AZ @ 140
I am not so certain that the journalism of the past was all that much better than the journalism of today. Lots of tacit agreements not to cover X, Y or Z; old boy connections and winks/nods; etc. I think that may be what made the Watergate expose so amazing.
That said, one thing that does make me think it’s worse today is the conflation of news and entertainment. When news becomes entertainment and an industry, at that, the ongoing nature of the interaction between news reporter and news maker becomes critical and reporter then slowly slips into stenographer role.
Access and money can make you a star reporter, with associated extra network/paper support and top billing but it’s difficult to for the right article to make you one. These reporter spots are positional as much as anything else. The pulpit holds a lot of the power. The Friedman, Broder, Russert folks have their pulpits and preach. But the Landays and Strobels who got things right are where? Still!
LMAO
Marg @ 158
Haven’t seen him in person, but press reports say he’s 6′2″.
Dr. J @ 147
Some looks photo-shopped to me.
Besides, what would they accomplish by putting up newtie & mitch? -eeewwww-
Dems rule! ;->
gaspard @ 162
Not only Americans living abroad are very worried about the WH madness … just that you are closer to it but the effects are worldwide.
Yes; I know firsthand from my non-American family in Europe and Asia. The madness affects us all.
I have seen him in person, and 6.2 or 6.3 sounds about right.
New thRedd.
Ed*ard Teller @ 161
Ed in Teller..Are you in Teller,Ak?
chatoman @ 142
Thanks – you articulated a very good point. With so much of the evidence being hours of testimony, I would expect that the jury would need to look at the exact words said at key moments of the trial, particularly if they’re hung up on issues. To me, that indicates the deliberations could take longer than in a case where an abundance of clear physical evidence is presented (or conversely, a lack of physical evidence that should be present).
When the jury asks for testimony to be read back, will we learn what specifically they ask to be read back at the time? That might give us a glimpse at what they’re examining.
Question for Marcy: The liveblogging of Fitz’s rebuttal has him saying that Scooter remembers Rove’s conversation with Novak better than Rove does, but the Blumenthal article says better than NOVAK does. Do you know which one is correct?
early lunch break. Redd, you’ve got mail. For everyone else: Yesterday, the jury asked for the following: large flip chart, masking tape, post-it notes. Hmmmm.
carmen @81:
“A few people have referred to the corporate media as Pravda. While we’re all waiting I think others might like to read a cautionary tale from the New Yorker 1/29/07 article: Kremlin, Inc. by Michael Specter about the dangers of the media becoming agents of government. Very scary stuff, starting with the murder of Anna Politkovskaya, special correspondent for a small liberal newspaper.”
WaPravda and NYvestia are corporations that serve the Party. The only solution is to address revenue stream: national advertisers.
Rich @ 127
Actually, all girls have brains. It’s a fact. Not all of us are so lucky, but there are no scarecrows on the jury, IIRC.
Frank at 177 — My memory of that bit jibes with Sidney’s, FWIW. He was talking about Novak’s testimony before the jury versus Libby’s before the G/J, from what I remember.
rwcole @ 151
I’ll take 3:18 p.m. Friday
chatoman @ 181
Viget@165:
Hope you’re right. Convictions on 4 of 5 would be a good “batting average” for Fitz (who had sand thrown in his eyes and couldn’t see!).
Oh…fresh thread up and running for everyone.
Thanks, Sparkles and egregious, for the info on height. I don’t see TV; fdl is where I get my news coverage, and it helps to have images sometimes.
Rayne@14
If you figure out how to mount your laptop on the treadmill please let me know. I’ve been trying to figure out how to do it for weeks. The biggest problem of course, how not to shake its poor innards. I thought maybe mount it to the wall on some kind of moveable arm.
S.O.S. in MA @
70
Yabbut yabbut, FDL — (being a simple blog, unlike whatever is driving HufPo) — just sits there until you explicitly think to Refresh; that’s the only way you’ll learn from here that a verdict impends.
What I do is leave the FDL “gabbly chat” window
open with its “enter/exit” (the two-feet icon at the bottom of the gabbly window) and “new post” (the leetle bell icon next to it) functions turned ON. (Of course, I also leave my computer’s speakers ON and loud enough to hear from elsewhere in my house)…
So, when verdict stuff begins to happen, and in the hopes that “the usual gang” gathers over in GabblyVille, :) (heyo Rayne, Shez, halobeam, cbl, Mr.Murder, Cletus, Pat_AlexVA, Lindy, jeffreyw, Lindy, KestrelBrighteye, LaFourmiRouge, leinie, Neil, TJ, Strategerie, Aaron G Stock, … sorry if I forgot to mention YOU :) ) my computer will begin to beep and boop at me, recruiting my attention. QED, problem solved. I’ll be there if and when the jury returns its verdict! ‘Cause Gabbly is “push-based” rather than “pull-based” as the web normally is.
Gabbly is a fun kinda chat-app. Using it doesn’t burden FDL’s servers at all. It’s a good place to discuss any sort of Libby-related stuff at a far faster pace than is possible in these threads.
Rayne introduced it and imho it’s cool. Sometimes we get harrassed by hackers, in which case we retreat to a private redoubt. Others of us know how to get its URL to you without publishing it here. If you need its URL, please post your request in an FDL comment string.
If you wanna “listen and wait for the news and join in the gabble” when the verdict hits, C U over in chat-land. Remember, because Gabbly runs on a completely other server somewhere on the ‘net, using it takes some of the heavy load off the FDL servers!
Hint: Use two browser windows. Put the above URL in one, and the real FDL (this one) in the other. Position the windows where you can see both the chat about FDL and the real FDL. (Remember to turn Gabbly’s sounds and your computer’s sound on, and loud enough to wake the dead… :) Refresh only the REAL FDL window.
Go jury, give us back the truth! All hail Fitz and the entire (((FDL Crew))), additional best loyal vibes to ((((Jane)))) — and Godspeed to us all.
Um, S.O.S. in MA, No Offense, but could you stop using me as the bad example in your re-post? During the Libby trial live blogging I never posted, to help w/possible bandwidth issues, only refreshed maybe twice an hr. Right now I’m closing FDL window- will get my update elsewhere. Don’t want to be a burden to you all re: bandwidth.
Cranky Observer @ 78
Umm, not to be pedantic, that should be “pedantic” or, better yet, “a pedant’s point.”
Rayne @ 44
Rayne, Re the WSJ editorial by Daniel Henninger. I found it through Memorandum, and read the whole thing, but when I went back it was gone. So I got the WSJ online, clicked. Got this message:
FREE PREVIEW
Scooter Libby and Reputation
By Daniel Henninger
Word Count: 1,063
“There used to be a time when big cases were investigated a different way in this country. Maybe something’s gone horribly wrong.”
– Federal Judge Lewis A. Kaplan, 2006
The trial of I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby is the closest version of a Red Queen trial this country has had in a long time. One says that knowing it might start a stampede from past defendants laying claim to the most upside-down prosecution.
Lewis G. Carroll’s account of the Knave’ s trial before the Red Queen and White Rabbit is famous for the Queen’s dictum, “Sentence first, verdict afterward.” But read …
• THE FULL WSJ.com ARTICLE IS ONLY AVAILABLE TO SUBSCRIBERS.
njprogressive @ 103
Perhaps in the UK journalists are still taught that their job is not limited to asking general questions and writing down whatever answers are given, without follow-up or challenge. How quaint!
queeniesdaughter @ 135
I was in my senior year of high school and my freshman year of college. The summer of the Watergate hearings, my parents and I sat and watched the PBS replay every single night, eating our dinner and discussing the testimony. It’s what made me want to go to law school.
My daughter, the budding political junkie, has been following the trial (mostly through watching Tweety and KO), but most of her friends (16/17 year olds) are oblivious.
Notta at 189: Great catch! LMAO, which isn’t necessarily a bad way to lose it.
Wow, my very first hat tip! I’m honored. What a great way to start off my morning. Not to brag or anything, but I also made some contributions to teh “Press coverage of the trial” section of Scooter’s Wikipedia entry.
The detailed coverage of the trial here has been compelling, dramatic, and historic. It’s something that we absolutely would never have seen relying on the traditional media. I don’t comment as frequently or as insightfully as many others in this community, but it’s truly an honor to be able to contribute. Thanks, Jane and Christy in particular.
Afternoon everyone! This comment is probably going to be EPU’d, but after reading Blumenthal’s Salon article I just had to point this out:
In Jeffress’ portion of the closing arguments, he went on and on about how unreliable journalists are, and how you can’t believe a single thing any of them publish. Then he went on to (rather dramatically) tell the jury that they should acquit Scooter because THEY aren’t journalists!
I think Jeffress forgot something rather important.
One of the members of the jury IS a journalist, and in fact, used to work for a well-known paper, reporting to Bob Woodward.
Do you think he’ll appreciate having one of the attorneys (essentially) call him an unreliable pathalogical liar?
Oops.
LandOfTheFree @ 176
The note should be read to the Defendant in open Court and the Judge will inform the
Defendant of his response. I do not know if the Judge in this case will respond to notes in his Court Room or in Chambers. There must be record made of questions, notes etc. in front of a court reporter and in the precense of Defendant.
And yes these types of notes will really indicate what the jury is thinking….
Joe Wilson – June 14, 2003
“The real agenda in all of this of course, was to redraw the political map of the Middle East. Now that is code, whether you like it or not, but it is code for putting into place the strategy memorandum that was done by Richard Perle and his study group in the mid-90’s which was called, “A Clean Break – A New Strategy for the Realm.” And what it is, cut to the quick, is if you take out some of these countries, some of these governments that are antagonistic to Israel then you provide the Israeli government with greater wherewithal to impose its terms and conditions upon the Palestinian people, whatever those terms and conditions might be. In other words, the road to peace in the Middle East goes through Baghdad and Damascus. Maybe Tehran. And maybe Cairo and maybe Tripoli if these guys actually have their way. Rather than going through Jerusalem.”
19:46: http://next.epic-usa.org/epicd…..son-32.mp3
“On the other ones, the geopolitical situation, I think there are a number of issues at play; there’s a number of competing agendas. One is the remaking of the map of the Middle East for Israeli security, and my fear is that when it becomes increasingly apparent that this was all done to make Sharon’s life easier and that American soldiers are dying in order to enable Sharon to impose his terms upon the Palestinians that people will wonder why it is American boys and girls are dying for Israel and that will undercut a strategic relationship and a moral obligation that we’ve had towards Israel for 55 years. I think it’s a terribly flawed strategy.”
13:33: http://next.epic-usa.org/epicd…..-qa-32.mp3
Rayne @ 14
you should patent that!
chaboard @
138
cebm @
187
I hate laptops so I use an external keyboard, mouse, and screen. How to set up a mouse in this rig is what’s getting me. How am I going to move it around while walking? It’s a chew-gum/pat-my-head thing.
Two Observations which I havenot seen elsewhere on this fantastic blog:
1) Tha accidental hero: Russert quite unexpectedly spilled the beans, Fitz says that because he was reached “At home” and implies that he was off guard. The truth, I think was that Tim thought that he would be CLEARING Scooter not indicting him. He thought that the inquiry was about who leaked Plame’s ID, and of course he knew that Libby had not leaked to him, so Tim, I deduce, was trying to help out the FBI investigator and offered up that he had not been the recipient of a leak so that the FBI wouldn’t have to waste time and resources subpoenaing him.
Obstruction by Pardon: The pardon would be a legal act, but there is no reason that a legal act to silence a witness can not be construed as part of a conspiracy. So even if the President pardons Libby it could actually get worse for the President and the Vice President. Also, once pardoned, Libby would not be entitled to his 5th Amendment right to silence and he could be MADE to testify, that could work out poorly for the Administration.