Christy! Fitz! Is it over yet?

;AGGh! My dear Cindy Sheehan was sent to Cuba thanks to Faux News in January. Indeed, It makes one wonder at their “generosity.”

USA Today uncovered perhaps the worst quote of the year in Iraq.

Ahmed Abdullah, 29, a Sunni from Zaiona, had doubts. “I don’t believe that Iraqis will rape a woman. We don’t have such a culture. We might kill, behead or do torture, but rape — I don’t think so,” he said.

Back to Scooter:

Did anyone else think Scooter’s entire defense exhibited (pun intended) a sort of “Battered Wife Syndrome”? Why would Team Libby go after Karl Rove and the President – the only man who can pardon Libby – in the defense opening, while protecting Dick Cheney, who can’t pardon or help Libby at all. Sure, Dick has the President’s ear, but that’s not gonna help Libby if he’s already burned that bridge.

Just seems kind of bizarre, protecting the guy who got you into this mess and can’t help you by attacking the only guy who can help you if you are convicted.

On a related note, I’m a little worried about something in Fitz’s closing. I think we all agree that implicating Cheney was largely a good thing, but I’m concerned that it might influence the jury adversely — specifically, my concern is that the jury might return a ‘not guilty’ verdict on the basis that Libby was just doing the job assigned to him by Cheney, and that it’s Cheney who should be on trial instead.

Does anyone else think that might be a problem, or am I just being overly worrisome? Christy? Jane? Marcy?

EPU’d from last thread:

In response to solicitation from the George Bush Presidential Library Foundation:

139 Biodun says:

February 22nd, 2007 at 9:50 am

Christy @ 130:

You should send them a copy of your book after it’s published. Which brings me to something I’d been meaning to ask/tell you:

If you haven’t considered this already, you should transform all your brilliant postings leading to the Libby trial, and during the trial, into a book manuscript and publish it. A readership wider than FDL’s deserves to read it.

Hmm. Lieberman playing “political footsie”

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/a…..1003548744

‘Cue the Fox News Laugh Track‘…’All komedy, all the time’

;>)

just posted in last thread, and there’s a new one, so, am reposting:

there’s something that noone has mentioned yet that nags at the back of my brain——and am wondering why noone else noticed it, the visual stuck in my brain when wells said it, and then when fitgerald said it back, it rang a bell…….and i said ‘uh oh’ to myself when i heard it come from fitzgerald…..

so, i went back over summations and rebuttal, to verify, to see who said it first—the cloud over the VP’s office—……i know it’s not a transcript, but remembered that i thought it was WELLS who first brought up the ‘cloud over the VP’s office’ analogy…….and that is what i think really bit him back, because then Fitzgerald used it back on him…….i think it first came from wells and that is why he looked to disguted and defeated, because that is now the quote everyone is using for fitzgerald as one of the best points of his rebuttal…….i’d be depressed, too……..must have killed him, he threw the softball, and fitzgerald hit it out of the park………

from live-blog:

Wells #3

under 3:06 heading

Govt tried to put cloud over VP Cheney. During questioning of Ms Martin. We’ll you weren’t with Mr. Libby all the time. Somethings could have happened while you weren’t there. The clear implication was that there was skullduggery. That’s unfair on teh facts of this case. Scooter Libby wasn’t out pushing stories on the wife. Look at output side.

and here is where fitzgerald first uses it-
fitzgerald #1

under 4:31 heading

There is a cloud over the VP. He wrote those columns, he had those meetings, He sent Libby off to the meeting with Judy. Where Plame was discussed. That cloud remains because the denfendant obstructed justice.  That cloud was there. That cloud is something that we just can’t pretend isn’t there.
============================

Re: the Dems:

The Hillary Clinton-Barack Obama spat will lead to both of these identity politics (Hillary: gender; Obama: race) candidates short-circuiting each other. Edwards will be the beneficiary. Now a John Edwards-Barack Obama presidential ticket might be a winner for the Dems in 2008.

Jesus General has his troops assembled and is reay to move out – far out!! He has great questions.

JGabriel @ 4

Back to Scooter…
…On a related note, I’m a little worried about something in Fitz’s closing. I think we all agree that implicating Cheney was largely a good thing, but I’m concerned that it might influence the jury adversely — specifically, my concern is that the jury might return a ‘not guilty’ verdict on the basis that Libby was just doing the job assigned to him by Cheney, and that it’s Cheney who should be on trial instead.

Does anyone else think that might be a problem, or am I just being overly worrisome? Christy? Jane? Marcy?

It’s Cheney who should be on trial instead AS WELL (and may yet be). I think the jury would be able to understand that. “Just following orders” doesn’t exonerate Scooter from the charges brought in this trial.
_

Marty Kaplan also gets it right over @Huffington Post. MSM & Blogs. Wow, think of the trees that are left standing when just the NYT Sunday edition is stuffed.

This post is TRex inspired:

Once long ago I was working in an airport gift shop. I considered part of my job was to talk with nervous customers. One day a very jumpy guy wanted to know if Richard Chamberlain (who was on the cover of some gossip mag) was gay or not. I didn’t think so, but I thought I ought to reassure this afraid to fly gay seeming guy. So I said “Maybe –but I kinda hope not cause I’d run away with him.”

“Ah…” said the fellow. “Desired by both men and women…”

And that’s TRex — the secret love dream off all sexes! When I see his pic I just grrowlll!

TRex – something fishy going on (via Raw Story):

“KFC asks for papal approval of new fish sandwich”

EPU’d (with a couple edits) from a thread a couple back this AM:

… Many of us pups are anxiously awaiting the return of the jury. To keep informed and not miss a trick, they’re periodically refreshing the FDL blog in hopes not to miss the Big Moment.

My earlier response went like this:

Yabbut yabbut, FDL — (being a simple blog, unlike whatever is driving HufPo) — just sits there until you explicitly think to Refresh; that’s the only way you’ll learn from here that a verdict impends.

Here’s a solution that will (I believe) only work for those who, like me, have the luxury of an “always-on” net connection, like via cable or DSL or other advanced protocol than old-style dialup.

What I do is leave the FDL “gabbly chat” window

http://gabbly.com/firedoglake.com

open with its “enter/exit” (the two-feet icon at the bottom of the gabbly window) and “new post” (the leetle bell icon next to it) functions turned ON. (Of course, I also leave my computer’s speakers ON and loud enough to hear from elsewhere in my house)…

So, when verdict stuff begins to happen, and in the hopes that “the usual gang” gathers over in GabblyVille, :) (heyo Rayne, Shez, halobeam, cbl, Mr.Murder, Cletus, Pat_AlexVA, Lindy, jeffreyw, Lindy, KestrelBrighteye, LaFourmiRouge, leinie, Neil, TJ, Strategerie, Aaron G Stock, … sorry if I forgot to mention YOU :) ) my computer will begin to beep and boop at me, recruiting my attention. QED, problem solved. I’ll be there if and when the jury returns its verdict! ‘Cause Gabbly is “push-based” rather than “pull-based” as the web normally is.

Naturally all this depends on the continuation of the amazing trial coverage that the sterling FDL crew has provided for us… so TIA for that, in spades!!! :)

If you wanna “listen and wait for the news and join in the gabble” when the verdict hits, C U over in chat-land. Remember, because Gabbly runs on a completely other server somewhere on the ‘net, using it takes some of the heavy load off the FDL servers!

Hint: Use two browser windows. Put the above URL in one, and the real FDL (this one) in the other. Position the windows where you can see both the chat about FDL and the real FDL. (Remember to turn Gabbly’s sounds and your computer’s sound on, and loud enough to wake the dead… :) Refresh only the REAL FDL window.

Go jury, give us back the truth! All hail Fitz and the entire (((FDL Crew))), additional best loyal vibes to ((((Jane)))) — and Godspeed to us all.

“If you haven’t considered this already, you should transform all your brilliant postings leading to the Libby trial, and during the trial, into a book manuscript and publish it. A readership wider than FDL’s deserves to read it.”

How about publishing the entire blog as a book, from start to finish of the Libby trial? Each posting would constitute a chapter, with the comments on the following pages.

Include all of our comments, and some bios of you and your crew on the book cover?

Just a thought…

Anybody else think that the flip-charts, tape, post-it notes, photos, etc. are probably not good news for the jury nullification proponents? Victoria, are you out there?

JEP @ 15

“If you haven’t considered this already, you should transform all your brilliant postings leading to the Libby trial, and during the trial, into a book manuscript and publish it. A readership wider than FDL’s deserves to read it.”

How about publishing the entire blog as a book, from start to finish of the Libby trial? Each posting would constitute a chapter, with the comments on the following pages.

Include all of our comments, and some bios of you and your crew on the book cover?

Just a thought…

LMAO.

You’d have to have a forklift to pick it up!

Marcy/Christy,

Any thoughts about what the Jury has been asking for?
Just found out about it on a court TV feed.

GARY @ 18

Marcy/Christy,

Any thoughts about what the Jury has been asking for?
Just found out about it on a court TV feed.

They are probably playing Hangman! *g*

I just signed a petition at MoveOn calling on The Democratic Party of Nevada to drop Fox as it’s partner for the debate.

That book would be heavier than Clinton’s.

JEP @ 16

… Include all of our comments …

OhPleaseNooo, not ALL of ‘em… be judicious, I beg of thee :)

I have been, shall we say, a little bit naughty at times…

GARY at 18 — Thus far, it’s post-its, a flip chart, some masking tape and an exhibit with pictures of the witnesses. Sounds to me as though they will methodially go over the evidence and testimony. Which is exactly what you want a jury to do in evaluating a case.

And, if you are a defendant who is trying to claim inadvertant memory lapses because your hard job made you lie and are hoping for jury nullification? Well, it just got that much harder to pull it off if the entire jury is working together on combing through the entire pile of materials. I think this is good news for the government — this jury is going to pull out every piece of evidence and look it squarely in the face instead of going with the emotional appeal from Team Libby.

I wish we could give the jury Marcy’s book.
At least the time line.

On flip charts, post-its, and waiting: my guess now is that the jury will bring a verdict on Friday afternoon. Not because that will muffle the media noise (that’s an unfortunate side effect), but just because of juror psychology. They have a relatively complicated case with numerous counts, exhibits, and testimony, and the request for school supplies is great in the sense that they’re going over everything carefully. But I was just on a jury (in a boring, meaningless trial) and the desire to wrap things up and get back to your life is extremely powerful. So I think they had all day yesterday, they’re getting better organized today, and they’ll try to finish it up some time tomorrow, with added pressure as the morning bleeds into the afternoon.

They’re going to want this to be over before the weekend, even if it’s at 430 on Friday.

From E&P article linked by ReneD @ 6:

Lieberman calls jumping to the Republican side, and tilting the Senate, “a remote possibility,” which means there’s at least a chance of that. Time seems to push Lieberman in this direction, as the article concludes: “Lieberman’s GOP flirtation has its risks–and a time limit….The longer he waits to capitalize on his moment, the greater the danger that he’ll be tagged as one of those politicians for whom having power is more important than using it.”

Crikey. Lieberman would be a frickin’ idiot to jump to the Republic side of the aisle at this point, and I wish someone would call him on it — something like:

“Hey, Joe, go ahead, jump. And when the Democrats increase their margin in the Senate by 5-10 seats in the next election, we’ll just smile while you wander in woods, hangdog Diggity Dog, who can’t get anyone’s attention anymore. Or any legislation passed or considered.”

Fuckwit.

That said, I wonder how much it would hurt if Joe really did switch sides. I don’t think it would much matter.

It would split power in the Senate, yes. Dems and Republicers would have to either have equal representation in the committees, or split the committees they control, or some combination thereof. Which would make some things more difficult.

But they’re already difficult, as shown by the Republic Party’s succesful block of debate on Iraq. Joe’s obviously not helping there, and he doesn’t really help on any of the other issues to concern of Democrats. And where he is useful, he’s not that likely to switch positions just because he switched party.

Frankly, he might be of more use to us as moderate Republicer than a neocon Dem: it would force the Pugs to move centerward a little bit, on some issues, if they want to retain his seat — and let’s face it, the Republicers are not going to be in any position to risk seats for at least the next two elections.

I say we should let him go, and punish him after the next elections. ‘Cause he really ain’t helping us now anyway.

Ok, so the jury is asking for stuff. Sounds like they aren’t going to reach a verdict for at least a few days.

GChristy Hardin Smith @
23

GARY at 18 — Thus far, it’s post-its, a flip chart, some masking tape and an exhibit with pictures of the witnesses. Sounds to me as though they will methodially go over the evidence and testimony. Which is exactly what you want a jury to do in evaluating a case.

And, if you are a defendant who is trying to claim inadvertant memory lapses because your hard job made you lie and are hoping for jury nullification? Well, it just got that much harder to pull it off if the entire jury is working together on combing through the entire pile of materials. I think this is good news for the government — this jury is going to pull out every piece of evidence and look it squarely in the face instead of going with the emotional appeal from Team Libby.

Glad to hear you say that….
Thanks

my contempt for Joe Lieberman is as abundant as ever.

1. “You’d have to have a forklift to pick it up!”

2.”OhPleaseNooo, not ALL of ‘em… be judicious, I beg of thee :) I have been, shall we say, a little bit naughty at times…”

Maybe if we can sort out the funny stuff and stick to the legal dialogue, we’d need a smaller forklift!

But that would lose some readership, no doubt. Punaise alone is worth every post.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 23

GARY at 18 — Thus far, it’s post-its, a flip chart, some masking tape and an exhibit with pictures of the witnesses. Sounds to me as though they will methodially go over the evidence and testimony. Which is exactly what you want a jury to do in evaluating a case.

And, if you are a defendant who is trying to claim inadvertant memory lapses because your hard job made you lie and are hoping for jury nullification? Well, it just got that much harder to pull it off if the entire jury is working together on combing through the entire pile of materials. I think this is good news for the government — this jury is going to pull out every piece of evidence and look it squarely in the face instead of going with the emotional appeal from Team Libby.

what? no scissors?

Honestly, I am delighted to hear they do indeed sound not only serious but organized and probably methodical. Would things like this make it any harder to gain traction for a possible appeal, Christy?

everhopeful @ 16

Anybody else think that the flip-charts, tape, post-it notes, photos, etc. are probably not good news for the jury nullification proponents? Victoria, are you out there?

Oh I think they decided within the first 10 minutes.

They just want that stuff for the scrapbooking project they’re doing before they all split up and go home.

Marcy’s got a new one up:

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c……html#more

At any time during the trial, did Valerie or Joe Wilson’s picture come up?

egregious @
33

everhopeful @ 16

Anybody else think that the flip-charts, tape, post-it notes, photos, etc. are probably not good news for the jury nullification proponents? Victoria, are you out there?

Oh I think they decided within the first 10 minutes.

They just want that stuff for the scrapbooking project they’re doing before they all split up and go home.

Maybe they are making cute little matching signs to walk into the courtroom with.

You know, like an arts and crafts project!

Morning all, from down here. Grabbed the chance for a day off. But, I’ll run a counter philosophy. I’m going to wander off for a long walk along the lake on a sweet summer day, on the idea that the watched pot won’t boil. I’ll get going shortly….just as soon as I scan, oh, about 400 comments and refresh to see if there is a new post and……..

ccmask at 33 — Amb. Wilson’s photograph was used in one of the defense exhibits, I think, but Valerie’s photo was never used that I can recall. Oh, excuse me, “the wife” never had her photo used. *g*

JEP @ 30

2.”OhPleaseNooo, not ALL of ‘em… be judicious, I beg of thee :) I have been, shall we say, a little bit naughty at times…”

So-o-o JEP, you’re volunteering to proofread?

NZ Expat @ 36

Morning all, from down here. Grabbed the chance for a day off. But, I’ll run a counter philosophy. I’m going to wander off for a long walk along the lake on a sweet summer day, on the idea that the watched pot won’t boil. I’ll get going shortly….just as soon as I scan, oh, about 400 comments and refresh to see if there is a new post and……..

I once stood in front of a pot of cold water and watched until it boiled.
Yes, the heat was on :)

Just on principle.

Hey NZ how are you.

the wife” never had her photo used. *g*

Ouch.
I can’t believe them dumbas*es kept saying that.

My contempt for “J. Low” Lieberman is now bearing fruit.

Did the defense team have any women?
Beyond the people that brought documents back and forth?

Note to JEP:

Please see my response at the end of the last thread regarding your attack on my comments and motives.

And, by the way, I also have followed this case on FDL since the beginning of it. Just because I didn’t post hardly ever until after Jane’s illness was announced doesn’t mean I’m an idiot or a troll (which seems to be what you were implying).

egregious at 43 — Yes, several, including a very pregnant associate. I kept hoping every day for her that her water was not going to break while we were in court. (That happened once to a client of mine when I was in private practice, and it was NOT fun.)

FoxNews would be so proud. When it comes to lobbing word-bombs, it would be hard to beat this person’s question to Dana Priest on this morning’s live chat:

Michigan City, Ind.: Hi Dana. If the anti-war liberal Democrats are able at some time (after Mr. Murtha’s “slow bleed” of our troops) to totally get us to cut and run from Iraq, and “The Pol Potting” gets into full swing in Iraq, what timeframe might we expect a movie like, “The Killing Sands” to be put in “the can”? Maybe Mr. Geffen would like a crack at that filming project, with Jane Fonda’s offical okie-dokie, of course … sigh.

and ya gotta love her reply:

Dana Priest: You managed to tuck in more loaded nouns and verbs than the highly-partisans usually can fit in one question, so I’m passing this along for those interested in this tradecraft. (And to repeat that those who are, you will probably get more relief from your affliction in the blogisphere).

tradecraft. :-) dana rules.

Bustednuckles @ 40

the wife” never had her photo used. *g*

Ouch.
I can’t believe them dumbas*es kept saying that.

Indeed! Just be thankful for small favors, and never refuse the large ones either. And never bother a bozo when he’s busy shooting himself in the foot, heh.
Christy and Jane. It must have been so-o-o hard to keep a straight face in the courtroom at times. Bravo for that too!

Adie @ 38

JEP @ 30

2.”OhPleaseNooo, not ALL of ‘em… be judicious, I beg of thee :) I have been, shall we say, a little bit naughty at times…”

So-o-o JEP, you’re volunteering to proofread?

Proofread? That would ruin the whole project!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 24

GARY at 18 — Thus far, it’s post-its, a flip chart, some masking tape and an exhibit with pictures of the witnesses. Sounds to me as though they will methodially go over the evidence and testimony. Which is exactly what you want a jury to do in evaluating a case.

And, if you are a defendant who is trying to claim inadvertant memory lapses because your hard job made you lie and are hoping for jury nullification? Well, it just got that much harder to pull it off if the entire jury is working together on combing through the entire pile of materials. I think this is good news for the government — this jury is going to pull out every piece of evidence and look it squarely in the face instead of going with the emotional appeal from Team Libby.

Exactly. It might take a bit of time for a decision to be reached, but it seems the jury wants to review the timeline. Can’t see how that could be good for the defense.

Question (posted late in an earlier thread): if the jury asks for any testimony to be read back, will we be privy to what specific sections of testimony they ask for?

from Christy at 23:

“And, if you are a defendant who is trying to claim inadvertant memory lapses because your hard job made you lie and are hoping for jury nullification? Well, it just got that much harder to pull it off if the entire jury is working together on combing through the entire pile of materials. I think this is good news for the government — this jury is going to pull out every piece of evidence and look it squarely in the face instead of going with the emotional appeal from Team Libby.”

Yes! Yes! Jumping up and down w/ fingers crossed.
Also jumping up and down because I’ve got my FDL fix back— my computer crashed Saturday, and couldn’t get it fixed and working and internet reinstalled until 3:00 a.m. this morning. Required wiping out the hard drive and starting over. (sigh. all my bookmarks, including exhibits from the trial, various references, etc.)
I was going nuts not being able to follow the closing arguments. OTOH, I got a lot of cleaning and sorting of clutter to get rid of, since I couldn’t sit at the computer, obsessively refreshing as usual.

It sure does sound like the teacher may be in charge of the jury what with the flip charts etc.

Does any one else remember a bit that Marcy blogged during the trial saying that when the pics of the witnesses were shown they didn’t have pics for FED agents only the bureau logos?

Marcy said that it seemed to reinforce the idea that their jobs (and Vals) were sensitive and their identities were being protected for that reason… are there actual pics for these folks or will the fed agents pics be represented (again) by the bureau logo?

I looked but couldn’t find Marcy’s comment in the live blogs. Also – when I put up this question earlier I wrote “defendant” not “witness” – my bad … my boss keeps sneaking up on me when ever I try to post!

benbarba @ 13

This post is TRex inspired:

Once long ago I was working in an airport gift shop. I considered part of my job was to talk with nervous customers. One day a very jumpy guy wanted to know if Richard Chamberlain (who was on the cover of some gossip mag) was gay or not. I didn’t think so, but I thought I ought to reassure this afraid to fly gay seeming guy. So I said “Maybe –but I kinda hope not cause I’d run away with him.”

“Ah…” said the fellow. “Desired by both men and women…”

And that’s TRex — the secret love dream off all sexes! When I see his pic I just grrowlll!

Three Stars Will Shine Tonight

It would be so nice if they had a pic of Val and the twins on the top of the flow chart.

i liked the idea best of a previous poster. The flipchart, tape, and post it notes are not for analyzing evidence.

They are for keeping track for the group consensus on different charges and keeping the discussion going. Somebody has experience in group facilitation. Verdict by the Weekend.

JEP @ 47

Adie @ 38

JEP @ 30

2.”OhPleaseNooo, not ALL of ‘em… be judicious, I beg of thee :) I have been, shall we say, a little bit naughty at times…”

So-o-o JEP, you’re volunteering to proofread?

Proofread? That would ruin the whole project!

Dang you, whippersnapper! You smoked that one PDQ.

dmac @ 7:

there’s something that noone has mentioned yet that nags at the back of my brain […] the visual stuck in my brain when wells said it, and then when fitgerald said it back, it rang a bell […]

i went back over summations and rebuttal, to verify, to see who said it first—the cloud over the VP’s office […] i thought it was WELLS who first brought up the ‘cloud over the VP’s office’ analogy……. and that is what i think really bit him, because Fitzgerald used it back on him……. it first came from wells and that is why he looked so disguted and defeated, because that’s now the quote everyone is using for fitzgerald as one of the best points of his rebuttal…….i’d be depressed, too……..must have killed him, he threw the softball, and fitzgerald hit it out of the park………

from live-blog:

Wells #3

under 3:06 heading

Govt tried to put cloud over VP Cheney. During questioning of Ms Martin. We’ll you weren’t with Mr. Libby all the time. Somethings could have happened while you weren’t there. The clear implication was that there was skullduggery. That’s unfair on teh facts of this case. Scooter Libby wasn’t out pushing stories on the wife.

Whoa. Nice catch, dmac.

egregious:

I once stood in front of a pot of cold water and watched until it boiled.
Yes, the heat was on :)

Just on principle.

How contrarian of you! Love it.

During the waiting period it’s interesting to see the way the story of Fitz’ dramatic “cloud over the OVP” (apparently borrowed from Wells!) is slowly moving out into the world. Froomkin’s great work was the first big effort, but it was filed at 230, almost a full day later. On Tuesday night the only place to find anything was FDL–and the absence of course includes MSM news shows. The momentum of truth and possible consequences has been picking up pretty nicely, but it’s still way off the radar for most of America.

All of the things that are occupying us in the interim, including foolish Feb 07 spats in the 08 Dem presidential race, really don’t amount to anything: why couldn’t David Geffen say “I’ll have a lot to say about the Clintons in a month or two, but right now I’m fascinated by the fact that Patrick Fitzgerald brought out new details about the OVP and tied Libby’s obstruction to Cheney’s carefully calculated effort to go after Wilson, so I really want to hear this verdict and then see if Fitz might be using the information from this first trial to go after the VP. We could end up with Condi Rice as the new VP before we know it.” I know things don’t work that way, but it would be nice.

Just copy, cut and paste, no cover-ups here… Typos be damned, full speed ahead.

Off-topic, AGAIN but are there any Mac wizards out there?

I recently had a Java update on my OS X 10.4.8 running Safari 2.0.4 and now I can’t see any of the video from Politics TV. I go there and the whole page is blank.

Any other Mac OS X users having trouble seeing the video from the “Alfie” post last night? I just see a white space where it should be.

Thanks for any help.

Elliott @ 51

benbarba @ 13

Three Stars Will Shine Tonight

You are so dating yourself! LOL. I can hear the tune in my head.

Hey, gang – I just want to take a moment to thank all involved for a history-making effort here at FDL. Christie, Marcy, Jane, Swopa, and the techs behind the scene (Rayne?) – you have become giants by dint of your [obsessive] effort, and we are all the better for it.

Also, to the genuine wealth of commenters I shout out a hearty “Merci Beaucoup!” for the parsing and insight and even the flights of fancy. Huzzah! This has been the political education of a lifetime, and I lived through both the Kennedy assassination AND the Long Election Night.

SOS – what a great idea, to set up a Gabble window as a “verdict alarm” – I think I will do the same so as to be at ringside for the grand finale.

chart, post-its, tape, pics

CPTP

It’s the ole’ CPTP Trick! –Maxwell Smart

Joe Wilson is to Bush as x is to y. Closest thing I’ve found is a line from a Nick Cave song:
“You’re one microscopic cog in his catastrophic plan; designed and directed by his red right hand.”

Will @ 53

i liked the idea best of a previous poster. The flipchart, tape, and post it notes are not for analyzing evidence.

They are for keeping track for the group consensus on different charges and keeping the discussion going. Somebody has experience in group facilitation. Verdict by the Weekend.

Can you, would you, elaborate on how group facilitation works, please?

Jacqrat @
60

Off-topic, AGAIN but are there any Mac wizards out there?

I recently had a Java update on my OS X 10.4.8 running Safari 2.0.4 and now I can’t see any of the video from Politics TV. I go there and the whole page is blank.

Any other Mac OS X users having trouble seeing the video from the “Alfie” post last night? I just see a white space where it should be.

Thanks for any help.

Same here. I was wondering also.

JEP @ 58

Just copy, cut and paste, no cover-ups here… Typos be damned, full speed ahead.

;->

egregious @
33

everhopeful @ 16

Anybody else think that the flip-charts, tape, post-it notes, photos, etc. are probably not good news for the jury nullification proponents? Victoria, are you out there?

Oh I think they decided within the first 10 minutes.

They just want that stuff for the scrapbooking project they’re doing before they all split up and go home.

Brilliant, as usual, egregious! You and punaise never fail to restore hope and my sense of humor. Now if I could just overcome my pattern of EPU. ;)

tejanarusa @ 61

Elliott @ 51

benbarba @ 13

Three Stars Will Shine Tonight

You are so dating yourself! LOL. I can hear the tune in my head.

*sigh*

uh, newspaperbrat 68 -

Mebbe there’s no such thing as EPU when we’re waiting for the jury & trying to stay sane(?)

Please mods, can’t we keep all the toys out on the floor till playtime’s over?

Not wishing to give the right some publicity, just wanted to show what the other side is saying. (”Keep your enemies closer.”)

David Henninger, deputy editor of the WSJ editorial page (we know what this means), reads the Libby trial through the prism of a fairy tale:

“There used to be a time when big cases were investigated a different way in this country. Maybe something’s gone horribly wrong.”–Federal Judge Lewis A. Kaplan, 2006

The trial of I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby is the closest version of a Red Queen trial this country has had in a long time. One says that knowing it might start a stampede from past defendants laying claim to the most upside-down prosecution.

Lewis G. Carroll’s account of the Knave’ s trial before the Red Queen and White Rabbit is famous for the Queen’s dictum, “Sentence first, verdict afterward.” But read the full transcript of the mock trial and one will see that the real subject is not justice, but the humiliation of the defendant.

The trial of Scooter Libby in Washington, the national capital of illogic, has been exemplary.

(snip)

The humiliation of the defendant? I wonder where he got that from.

ccmask @ 63

‘…Would you believe the old “crash the government and loot the treasury” trick?’

;>)

ReneND @ 67

Jacqrat @
60

Off-topic, AGAIN but are there any Mac wizards out there?

I recently had a Java update on my OS X 10.4.8 running Safari 2.0.4 and now I can’t see any of the video from Politics TV. I go there and the whole page is blank.

Any other Mac OS X users having trouble seeing the video from the “Alfie” post last night? I just see a white space where it should be.

Thanks for any help.

Same here. I was wondering also.

Your best beat is to stop using Safari all together and download Firefox. It is more stable and functional. You can import all of your bookmarks, etc.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 45

egregious at 43 — Yes, several, including a very pregnant associate. I kept hoping every day for her that her water was not going to break while we were in court. (That happened once to a client of mine when I was in private practice, and it was NOT fun.)

Gracious. Yes I saw the women on the side. What I wondered was did the defense have any women who spoke in court? In theory it shouldn’t make a difference, but if I was one of the many female jurors it might.

“In theory, there’s no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is.”

Sorry no idea who first said that.

LaFourmiRouge @ 62:

Great handle, Red Ant.

Will @ 54

i liked the idea best of a previous poster. The flipchart, tape, and post it notes are not for analyzing evidence.

They are for keeping track for the group consensus on different charges and keeping the discussion going. Somebody has experience in group facilitation. Verdict by the Weekend.

Interesting idea, and possibly true. Though, the request for pictures of people who testified might also indicate that they’re lining up testimony and notes with the faces of the people who said things. The pics might be a good memory jogger.

I guess we’ll have a better idea if the jury asks for testimony to be read back (and even better idea if we know what they want read back).

@Adie

I was on a city council for six years. we used to go on retreats with professional facilitators. we would work together so well for about two or three months after those retreats. A lot of flip charts.

Learning to say things like. “Excellent point, let me build on what you said.” i may disagree with your position, but I identify with your interest and we can address it in a different way that can satisfy both of us.”

One example sticks in my mind. One guy gave an example of an open window. One person wants it open b/c of fresh air. Another hates it b/c it blows his papers all around . They have different positions. But if they close the bottom sash and open the top one, they accommodate both their interests.

That’s my take on it. There’s a juror that’s a facilitator or has had his share of those sessions. I went to about 4 of them plus the obligatory junket to the Institute of Government course after every election. That was for bonding with the newbies.

Mary McCurnin @ 74

ReneND @ 67

Jacqrat @
60

Off-topic, AGAIN but are there any Mac wizards out there?

I recently had a Java update on my OS X 10.4.8 running Safari 2.0.4 and now I can’t see any of the video from Politics TV. I go there and the whole page is blank.

Any other Mac OS X users having trouble seeing the video from the “Alfie” post last night? I just see a white space where it should be.

Thanks for any help.

Same here. I was wondering also.

Your best beat is to stop using Safari all together and download Firefox. It is more stable and functional. You can import all of your bookmarks, etc.

Actually, I’m on firefox. Not there either.

JEP @ 16

“If you haven’t considered this already, you should transform all your brilliant postings leading to the Libby trial, and during the trial, into a book manuscript and publish it. A readership wider than FDL’s deserves to read it.”

How about publishing the entire blog as a book, from start to finish of the Libby trial? Each posting would constitute a chapter, with the comments on the following pages.

Include all of our comments, and some bios of you and your crew on the book cover?

Just a thought…

I have not seen any references to this, but I hope there is some video being recorded of FDL’s journey too.

With all the personal color, the trials and tribulations, the cross country trips, Plame House, there may be some very rich people-context surrounding this effort beyond even the legal issues of the trial.

Flip charts, masking tape and post its.

Sounds to me like they have put up a chart for each count – using the masking tape to stick to the walls of the jury room – and have put up other charts for evidence both pro and con and are using the post its to put a reference to a piece of evidence on a count chart.

Then they will see where they are after the first pass through the evidence and go from there.

Much like decomposing a request for proposal or any other complex endeavor.

From the composition of some of the jury I would expect an organized approach like this.

In my opinion this is the way a jury should approach a case – and I can’t believe there will be any verdict but guilty on several of the counts.

Christy Hardin Smith @
45

egregious at 43 — Yes, several, including a very pregnant associate. I kept hoping every day for her that her water was not going to break while we were in court. (That happened once to a client of mine when I was in private practice, and it was NOT fun.)

OT, but I remember reading (while very pregnant) not to worry about that [water breaking] happening because it rarely happens to women out in public.My thoughts were, “well, rarely doesn’t mean never so it really could happen.” Actually, that would make a fun OT thread (funny stories about things that happened to FDLers and spouses while pregnant/giving birth).

I have to go grade papers and stop checking the comments/topics every 5 seconds…

I’m confused about all this cloud business.

Is the cloud above the VP in the shape of a smoking gun? Or Richard Nixon’s head? Or a pedophilic bear?

Is the cloud permanently located above Shooter’s physical office? Or is it always over Shooter, regardless of where he is (just as the dirt cloud always encircles Pig Pen)?

Is the cloud toxic? Would Hugo Chavez say it smells of sulphur?

Could it be that Shooter intends to create several tactical-sized mushroom clouds over Iran in order to distract people’s attention from the cloud over his head?

I’m not very good at science. Perhaps someone can help me figure this all out.

Christy, If you have a chance to look at the end of TRex last night, I’d be interested in your thoughts about my thoughts of Tim Russert. It’s somewhere between comments 300 to 400. Thanks.
This is a sincere request.

Would Novak be held as culpable in a treason conspiracy as Cheney and Rove and Libby, if it is proven that they ALL knowingly revealed the identity of a classified agent?

And if it can be proven (still a mystery, I know that), but if it CAN be proven they were all aware of her covert status, doesn’t that also constitute a conspiracy to commit treason, with Novak as the ultimate outlet?

Also from Mr. Murder’s Gabbly post about Andrew Johnson’s impeachment charges, (“unmindful of the harmony and courtesies which ought to exist and be maintained between the executive and legislative branches,”) does that not sound very familiar and could we use those charges again to stack up on top of the WMD lies the 16 words, the mushroom clouds and the engineered nie’s, to impeach the lot of them?

ccmask- another for your list on the last thread;

Keith Olbermann- “There‘s no crying in perjury trials!!!”

jacqurat: @60

Off-topic, AGAIN but are there any Mac wizards out there?

I recently had a Java update on my OS X 10.4.8 running Safari 2.0.4 and now I can’t see any of the video from Politics TV. I go there and the whole page is blank.

PC, not MAC wizard. That said, I’d recommend reinstalling the video codec.

It sounds like the Java upgrade wrote over the settings that call the codec. Re-installing should fix it, and at worst won’t hurt anything.

Wolverine @ 83

I’m confused about all this cloud business.

Is the cloud above the VP in the shape of a smoking gun? Or Richard Nixon’s head? Or a pedophilic bear?

Is the cloud permanently located above Shooter’s physical office? Or is it always over Shooter, regardless of where he is (just as the dirt cloud always encircles Pig Pen)?

Is the cloud toxic? Would Hugo Chavez say it smells of sulphur?

Could it be that Shooter intends to create several tactical-sized mushroom clouds over Iran in order to distract people’s attention from the cloud over his head?

I’m not very good at science. Perhaps someone can help me figure this all out.

I like to think of it like this: The only nuclear weapon threatening us was the Big Lie about uranium from Niger. Cheney launched that weapon but it backfired and that’s why the mushroom cloud sits over his own head now.

darkblack @ 73

ccmask @ 63

‘…Would you believe the old “crash the government and loot the treasury” trick?’

;>)

Good one–Max is my favorite!

JGabriel @
56

dmac @ 7:

there’s something that noone has mentioned yet that nags at the back of my brain […] the visual stuck in my brain when wells said it, and then when fitgerald said it back, it rang a bell […]

i went back over summations and rebuttal, to verify, to see who said it first—the cloud over the VP’s office […] i thought it was WELLS who first brought up the ‘cloud over the VP’s office’ analogy……. and that is what i think really bit him, because Fitzgerald used it back on him……. it first came from wells and that is why he looked so disguted and defeated, because that’s now the quote everyone is using for fitzgerald as one of the best points of his rebuttal…….i’d be depressed, too……..must have killed him, he threw the softball, and fitzgerald hit it out of the park………

from live-blog:

Wells #3

under 3:06 heading

Govt tried to put cloud over VP Cheney. During questioning of Ms Martin. We’ll you weren’t with Mr. Libby all the time. Somethings could have happened while you weren’t there. The clear implication was that there was skullduggery. That’s unfair on teh facts of this case. Scooter Libby wasn’t out pushing stories on the wife.

Whoa. Nice catch, dmac.

Seconded.

Dru @ 86

ccmask- another for your list on the last thread;

Keith Olbermann- “There‘s no crying in perjury trials!!!”

Thanks Dru. I meediately thought of this statement when Marcy told us Well’s cried.

JGabriel @ 27

From E&P article linked by ReneD @ 6:

Lieberman calls jumping to the Republican side, and tilting the Senate, “a remote possibility,” which means there’s at least a chance of that.

That said, I wonder how much it would hurt if Joe really did switch sides. I don’t think it would much matter.

It would split power in the Senate, yes. Dems and Republicers would have to either have equal representation in the committees, or split the committees they control, or some combination thereof. Which would make some things more difficult.

Yes but no. The committee chairs were settled on at the start of the session and are locked in for the duration, even if there’s a change in majority. Sure, the repubs could try to undo that agreement but it’d take 60 votes and you’d have the nuclear option brought up again. Think Cheney and his cronies in the Senate could get away with that in this political environment?

So if Joe did flip, the chairs would still be dems, the power would still bge in the dem’s hands and Lie-berman would be SOL. He’d lose all seniority, lose pretty much any power he might now have AND when those 5-10 seats flip dem in 2008, well, his career is pretty much over. Even more over than it is now.

Thanks Dru at 11:24 am for catching the great one from Keith.

“There’s no crying in perjury trials.”

JEP @ 85

Would Novak be held as culpable in a treason conspiracy as Cheney and Rove and Libby, if it is proven that they ALL knowingly revealed the identity of a classified agent?

IANAL, but I think that, once classified info is out, the press cannot be criminally charged for publishing it. Pentagon Papers precedent holds here, IIRC. Criminal liability extends only to those in government with lawful access to classified info.

I could be wrong, but I think that’s how it stands. Novakula doesn’t hold security clearance and never signed any confidentiality papers, puke that he is notwithstanding.
_

egregious at 39 asks how NZ Expat is doing:

All is well here. Trying to get ready for reentry into the US (sometime in April), which should mean cleaning, sorting, storing, relocating husband into smaller rental here during my absence.

What it really means is trying to tramp all the good spots I haven’t seen yet before summer ends. We’ll go walk the Queen Charlotte track on the South Island (about four or five days of walking) in a week or so.

Would so love to come back to the US and see some Cheney indictments being read out by Fitz in that complete, bs-less voice. My dad was a carpenter and Fitz reminds me of the very practical, clear sort of step by step builder. You know you have a solid foundation when he is done.

Biodun @ 76

LaFourmiRouge @ 62:

Great handle, Red Ant.

An homage to my favorite bar in all of France – La Fourmi Rouge, on place Colbert, Lyon, on “Les Pentes de la Croix Rousse” (The Slopes of Croix Rousse). Great people, cheap beer, good whiskey, and a magnificent playlist – Coltrane, Curtis Mayfield, Marley – all the greats and a plethora of hot French rap and hip-hop groups.

And a view to die for – on a clear day one can see Les Alpes to the east – ALL of them, all at once!

JGabriel @
87

jacqurat: @60

Off-topic, AGAIN but are there any Mac wizards out there?

I recently had a Java update on my OS X 10.4.8 running Safari 2.0.4 and now I can’t see any of the video from Politics TV. I go there and the whole page is blank.

PC, not MAC wizard. That said, I’d recommend reinstalling the video codec.

It sounds like the Java upgrade wrote over the settings that call the codec. Re-installing should fix it, and at worst won’t hurt anything.

So, re-install Java? I don’t have a clue what “Codec” is. ;)

Adie @ 70

uh, newspaperbrat 68 -

Mebbe there’s no such thing as EPU when we’re waiting for the jury & trying to stay sane(?)

Please mods, can’t we keep all the toys out on the floor till playtime’s over?

oh – and OT? Which topic would that be??? or not??? to be … pounced upon by rabid mods.

I shall hazard a wild guess that they don’t care, just so long as we’re playing quietly and not throwing toys, after this past week.
My GOODNESS we behaved ourselves for a long long time, didn’t we gang?!
Pat yerselves on the back, I sez.

Jane. I wanna see a picture of that Peabody Award one of these days, gal. ;->

Jacqrat @ 97

I don’t have a clue what “Codec” is. ;)

COder/DECoder.

Oh man Jacqrat. We are on the same page. My Mac wizard just left on a 4 day trip. I won’t be watching some videos til then.

I recently had a Java update on my OS X 10.4.8 running Safari 2.0.4 and now I can’t see any of the video from Politics TV. I go there and the whole page is blank.

Same problem. Mac, Firefox, couldn’t see the videos yesterday. Upgraded to Firefox 2.0, but I still can’t see them. I can see the video with the “Unscripted” thread posted today, but not the “What’s it all about, Alfie” thread. Weird.

We were damn good.

Isikoff and Hosenball continue to bust their chops in behalf of going-to-war propaganda on offer from AIPAC and the IRAN Directorate over on the Pen and Sword blog.

Briefers keep tripping over prepared remarks and mixing up unknown sources.

JGabriel @ 56

Whoa. Nice catch, dmac.

thanks JG!!!!-hard playin’ frisbee on a windy day………

but you cut off fitzgerald’s response in my quote which is my favorite part—–emphasis mine-where fitzgerald says “there IS a cloud…”

this just SCREAMS important to me as a HUGE wish-i-could-take-it-back-moment for wells…………see original comment @ 8, cuz i really DO want to know what people thought about this……..

from live-blog:

Wells #3

under 3:06 heading

Govt tried to put cloud over VP Cheney. During questioning of Ms Martin. We’ll you weren’t with Mr. Libby all the time. Somethings could have happened while you weren’t there. The clear implication was that there was skullduggery. That’s unfair on teh facts of this case. Scooter Libby wasn’t out pushing stories on the wife. Look at output side.

and here is where fitzgerald first uses it-
fitzgerald #1

under 4:31 heading

There IS a cloud over the VP. He wrote those columns, he had those meetings, He sent Libby off to the meeting with Judy. Where Plame was discussed. That cloud remains because the denfendant obstructed justice.  That cloud was there. That cloud is something that we just can’t pretend isn’t there.
============================

I recently had a Java update on my OS X 10.4.8 running Safari 2.0.4…

happened to me once at work so I threw it out of my windows and drank some port and had a hard drive home.

Excellent catch, dmac. Team USA was ready for everything Team Libby served them, and smashed it back in their faces. Yahhh!

(1) What happens to the flip-charts, etc., after jury deliberation?

(2) It’s hard for me to keep all the Plamology in my little head, but during summation, didn’t the Defense attempt to wittle down the whole case to two conversations (Russert and Cooper)? Whereas didn’t the Prosecution try to get the jury to consider the long list of he-saids and she-saids? Therefore, my guess at reading the tea leaves is that the jury is doing what the Prosecution wants, going through each witness, one at a time, with a photo of each, to help the jurors remember and identify each during their discussion.

LaFourmiRouge at 95: Place Colbert? As in Stephen Colbert?

Pregnancy and break water story: When I was a teenage “candystriper” I was taking a woman up to labor and delivery when we got stuck in an elevator. Just the two of us. Her water broke (I had no clue as to what that meant; I was a sheltered little Mennonite girl).

Thankfully, we got rescued before there were the three of us there. You know it is pathetic when a woman frantically looks to a 14 year old in a funny uniform for help.

New thread.

IIRC, a main component of the Libby defense strategy was obfuscation. They endeavored to confuse and inhibit the jury’s comprehension of the case and the important timeline of events.

As such, I believe that the office supplies that the jury requested are to be used to diagram and clarify the timeline and cast of characters. This is what the prosecution did. Therefore, I am compelled to view this development as a good sign for the prosecution.

I said three days and guilty and I’m sticking with it. Three days are yesterday, today and tomorrow.

LaFourmiRouge @ 96:

Bar sounds formidable! I’ve lived in France but never actually been to Lyon. Just passed through on the train from Paris to Aix. I did see some of the Alps you mentioned.

Wolverine @ 83:

Is the cloud above the VP in the shape of a smoking gun?

New talking point point for the White House:

We don’t want the smoking gun to be a Scanners-like cloud over the VP’s exploded head.

ReneND @ 100

Oh man Jacqrat. We are on the same page. My Mac wizard just left on a 4 day trip. I won’t be watching some videos til then.

Maybe Patrick Rex or another mac head will appear to lead us “mac idiots” out of the forest. I will wait patiently (sorta) and dream of hugging Marcy and Jane and Christy to thank them, someday. That’ll hold me a while!

Place named after Jean-Baptiste Colbert, 17th-Century French finance minister under Louis XIV, the Sun King.

“once classified info is out, the press cannot be criminally charged for publishing it.”

But until it hit Novak, it was still classified because only “classified” operatives knew it, and leaking it to Novak made him a part of the conspiracy?

I’m all for protecting journalists who blow th whistle on “evildoers” and crooked politicians, but outing an agent for her husband’s independent observations doesn’t quite get down under that limbo bar.

Since when is treason a reason to protect confidential sources?

jacqurat et. al.

PC/Linux guy here but…

I occasionally have trouble with embedded u-toobz with Opera on XP AND various browsers under Linux. I can usually see them without difficulty by going directly to you-tube and watching them there. The alfie video at you-tube.

FYI, COder/DECoder is the software that converts the video from one format to another. Aint nothing you really need to know aboutexcept if you need to reinstall one. I dunno if that’s done like it used to be in macland, by dropping it in the system folder.

Jacqrat/ReneND – Installing the latest version of the Flash Player plugin may solve your problem.

Let me know if it fixes it or not. You may also try repairing permissions.

egregious @ 75

Christy Hardin Smith @ 45

egregious at 43 — Yes, several, including a very pregnant associate. I kept hoping every day for her that her water was not going to break while we were in court. (That happened once to a client of mine when I was in private practice, and it was NOT fun.)

Gracious. Yes I saw the women on the side. What I wondered was did the defense have any women who spoke in court? In theory it shouldn’t make a difference, but if I was one of the many female jurors it might.

“In theory, there’s no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is.”

Sorry no idea who first said that.

I believe this is a Yogi Berra quote.

NZ Expat @ 108

LaFourmiRouge at 95: Place Colbert? As in Stephen Colbert?

Pregnancy and break water story: When I was a teenage “candystriper” I was taking a woman up to labor and delivery when we got stuck in an elevator. Just the two of us. Her water broke (I had no clue as to what that meant; I was a sheltered little Mennonite girl).

Thankfully, we got rescued before there were the three of us there. You know it is pathetic when a woman frantically looks to a 14 year old in a funny uniform for help.

What a story. I did candystriping work all thru high school, one of those people that finds hospitals, especially ICU’s, endlessly fascinating. Guess I’m in the right profession.

twolf1 @
117

Jacqrat/ReneND – Installing the latest version of the Flash Player plugin may solve your problem.

Let me know if it fixes it or not. You may also try repairing permissions.

Newer ibook-which flashplayer? pc-somethin’?

Notta Flatlander @ 92:

The committee chairs were settled on at the start of the session and are locked in for the duration, even if there’s a change in majority. […]

So if Joe did flip, the chairs would still be dems, the power would still be in the Dem’s hands and Lie-berman would be SOL. He’d lose all seniority, lose pretty much any power he might now have AND when those 5-10 seats flip Dem in 2008, well, his career is pretty much over. Even more over than it is now.

Thanks, Notta. That pretty much makes my point even stronger: Joe’s a fuckwit, lose him.

It’s time. It’ll hurt him more than the Dems, and if he wants to keep threatening that he might abandon the party, then call him on it.

ReneND – If you are unsure whether your Macintosh is Intel-based or PowerPC-based, click on the Apple menu and select “About this Mac”. The Processor field will mention Intel or PowerPC.

twolf1 @ 122

ReneND – If you are unsure whether your Macintosh is Intel-based or PowerPC-based, click on the Apple menu and select “About this Mac”. The Processor field will mention Intel or PowerPC.

Yes-power pc , thanks

“In theory there’s no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.”

Commenter above thot this was Yogi Berra, wiki thinks originally from scientist Jan L. A. van de Snepscheut.

Obligatory extra words to see if I closed my tags.

JEP @ 85

Would Novak be held as culpable in a treason conspiracy as Cheney and Rove and Libby, if it is proven that they ALL knowingly revealed the identity of a classified agent?

And if it can be proven (still a mystery, I know that), but if it CAN be proven they were all aware of her covert status, doesn’t that also constitute a conspiracy to commit treason, with Novak as the ultimate outlet?

Treason, as a legal charge rather than its colloquial usage, pretty much requires motive and intenet to help the enemy. Stupidity, arrogance, and self-interest are not enough.

I know it’s easy to forget that with all the Republicer trash talk, but no one is going to be charged with treason in these circumstances. Whether or not they should be is a different matter (probably not, though I agree they *deserve* it).

That said, there was definitely a conspiracy, in the colloquial sense – to out Valerie Plame, by Rove, Libby, Cheney, maybe Fleischer, maybe Armitage.

However, I think only Cheney and Libby knew she was covert. Possibly Rove, but if he got the info from Libby, as seems likely, there wouldn’t have been any reason for Libby to also pass on Plame’s covert status. A lot of reason not to, actually, since that might complicate the use Rove would make of it.

I can’t remember if conspiracy, legally, requires two or three actors. If two (which I think is correct), then Cheney and Libby could probably be indicted on conspiracy to violate IIPA or, more likely given the discovery problems inherent in an IIPA charge, to disseminate classified information.

I’m not sure you could get Rove, Fleischer, or Armitage even indicted, much less convicted, on such a charge since there seems to be little evidence they knew Plame’s status was classsified – though, arguably Rove and Armitage *should* have known, or at least suspected it was a possibility and kept quiet.

Novak, definitely not. Even though he was warned by Harlow not to publish Plame’s CIA employment, he signed no classification agreements, appears to have broken no law (just common sense morality), and has a First Amendment reporters privilege to back him up.

Jaqrat — running same system, did the Java update, have no trouble seeing Alfie. so at least with some hardware, the update did not affect previous codec.

jacqurat @ 97:

So, re-install Java? I don’t have a clue what “Codec” is. ;)

No, no, no. No! Do not re-install java.

Video Codec, as noted above, is Video Coder/Decoder.

As I’m a PC, not MAC, expert, I can’t direct you to the proper Codec to reinstall for your system.

Sorry, guys. I tried to help, in lieu of a MAC expert jumping in, but if you don’t know what codec you’re using then you’re gonna need that MAC expert to help you.

Alternately, you might look for the codec in the MAC Control Panel (or whatever it’s called these days). If you can identify it in there, then you might be able to figure out where on the internet to get a new copy for re-installing.

Will at 78

Thanks for the explanation. Common sense stuff that just isn’t as common as it ought to be these days. Good reason for “retreats” & such.

Lots of good stuff to chew on here today. ;->

Jacqrat
Sometimes quitting the application > then traveling to the Home library preferences folder where you will find plist’s . In my little Home preference folder I spied three Java plist’s , as well as the Safari plist . Removing these and placing them on the desktop in a named folder will provide you with the security of NOT changing anything . After you have done this restart your computer . You will want to do a permission repair . After these exercises you may try the question of your java (no flash plists) with the web site you found unresponsive . If you see no change in the play of the file you may consider re-placing the “old” plist’s back in the Home preferences folder . This will restore any changes you had made in the Safari Application . There is one more good thing to do . Restore the pram . This is a simple chore . Shut down the computer.
I recommend holding that for four chimes theinformation comes from the Apple web site . Good luck . Oh Libby is going to get beaned .

Jacqrat
I knew I would forget to say something . You will be told that the plist’s already exist when you place the old ones back in the Home libraries preference folder (they will be recreated when the Safari application is restarted) . Just say OK and the new ones or re-created will be made to lose their identity and disappeared .

Was this debate that Fox wants to host for the DEMs part of the Murdock contribution to Hillary????

She thinks Bill has given her some problems, she hasn’t seen anything until she gets in bed with Murdock.

From E&P, http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp…..1003548744 :

Lieberman calls jumping to the Republican side, and tilting the Senate, “a remote possibility,” which means there’s at least a chance of that. Time seems to push Lieberman in this direction, as the article concludes: “Lieberman’s GOP flirtation has its risks–and a time limit….The longer he waits to capitalize on his moment, the greater the danger that he’ll be tagged as one of those politicians for whom having power is more important than using it.”

Crikey. Lieberman would be a frickin’ idiot to jump to the Republic side of the aisle at this point, and I wish someone would call him on it — something like:

“Hey, Joe, go ahead, jump. And when the Democrats increase their margin in the Senate by 5-10 seats in the next election, we’ll just smile while you wander in woods, hangdog Diggity Dog, who can’t get anyone’s attention anymore. Or any legislation passed or considered.”

Fuckwit.

That said, I wonder how much it would hurt if Joe really did switch sides. I don’t think it would much matter.

It would split power in the Senate, yes. Dems and Republicers would have to either have equal representation in the committees, or split the committees they control, or some combination thereof. Which would make some things more difficult.

But they’re already difficult, as shown by the Republic Party’s succesful block of debate on Iraq. Joe’s obviously not helping there, and he doesn’t really help on any of the other issues to concern of Democrats. And where he is useful, he’s not that likely to switch positions just because he switched party.

Frankly, he might be of more use to us as moderate Republicer than a neocon Dem: it would force the Pugs to move centerward a little bit, on some issues, if they want to retain his seat — and let’s face it, the Republicers are not going to be in any position to risk seats for at least the next two elections.

I say we should let him go, and punish him after the next elections. ‘Cause he really ain’t helping us now anyway.

Addendum: Notta Flatlander noted in an earlier thread that, in fact, the committee seatings and power balance wouldn’t change even if Lieberman switched, because the organizing resolutions have already passed, and would require a 60 vote majority to overturn at this point. Which only makes my point stronger.

My letters to to Teresa Benitez, First Vice Chair of the NV Democratic Party are here, and here.

I am desperately trying to hold my snark about Miss America contestants, because Ms. Benitez has been involved with NV politics for a long time, and seems to have a good record as a progressive. But it is very hard when I receive letters that do such a bad job of defending the indefensible.