
This case is “about someone to whom Wilson’s wife wasn’t a person but an argument.” — Patrick Fitzgerald in his closing summation Tuesday.
A favorite argument of the apologists for Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby (and critics of Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald) is that the Libby prosecution is not merely a waste of time and money but unfair, since no one has yet been charged with a violation of the IIPA or other security classification statutes. We’ve seen examples of this argument from the editorial boards of the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post, and most recently in Sunday’s prominently displayed (complete with photoshopped mugshots of Fitzgerald and Joe Wilson) op-ed by Victoria Toensing. A major premise of the “no underlying crime” argument is that Valerie Wilson was not a covert agent, and hence there was no classified status to be revealed.
Of course, these advocates have always understood, but never acknowledged, that there were sound reasons why Valerie Plame’s classified status was purposely not “proved” in the Libby trial. The first and most obvious is the fact that since Libby was indicted for lying to the FBI and Grand Jury and obstructing the investigation, it was not necessary for the government to reveal or prove Plame’s status. The second was the dilemma the government faced in not wanting to be forced to prove any CIA employee’s job, status, classification or cover in open court, because having to do so would risk revealing even more classified information (and opening up possibilities for “greymail”). Since a violation of disclosure statutes was not being charged in this trial, and the Libby Court and Fiztgerald fully understood the CIA’s dilemma, they carefully and deliberately avoided any requirement that the government confirm or deny Valerie’s status. Of course, that did not stop Fitzgerald’s detractors from irresponsibly taking advantage of the situation by claiming that Valerie Plame’s status was not classified. Victoria’s dirty little secret is the knowledge that the government was duty bound not to respond to such claims if it did not have to respond. Pachacutec’s post discussed the suspect timing and intent behind the WaPo editors and Toensing op-ed, and ConsortiumNews did a point-by-point critique of Toensing.
In the face of such blatant irresponsibility by the Washington Post, it is not surprising therefore, that past and present employees of the CIA felt compelled to come to Valerie’s defense, lest they and other agents become exposed to the same type of intimidation and outing that Valerie Wilson had to face. It was particularly gratifying to see this Larry Johnson post confirming yet again that Valerie was indeed an undercover agent before her cover was blown and explaining why he knew this was true, even though he understood why the government itself would have been extremely reluctant to “prove” this fact in open court.
Valerie Plame was undercover until the day she was identified in Robert Novak’s column. I entered on duty with Valerie in September of 1985. Every single member of our class–which was comprised of Case Officers, Analysts, Scientists, and Admin folks–were undercover. I was an analyst and Valerie was a case officer. Case officers work in the Directorate of Operations and work overseas recruiting spies and running clandestine operations. Although Valerie started out working under “official cover”–i.e., she declared she worked for the U.S. Government but in something innocuous, like the State Department–she later became a NOC aka non official cover officer. A NOC has no declared relationship with the United States Government. These simple facts apparently are too complicated for someone of Ms. Toensing’s limited intellectual abilities.
Update: Commenter Woodhall Hollow notes that Larry Johnson provides further explanation of Valerie Plame’s covert NOC status today.
While the case was therefore not a prosecution under the IIPA or other security classification statutes, that did not stop the concept of improperly disclosing classified information from playing a major role in the Libby trial. Reading through Marcy’s (emptywheel’s) extraordinary live blogging, I was struck by how much the trial was about the carelessness and indifference with which the Bush Administration in general, and the Office of Vice President in particular, treated classified information. That came through loud and clear in Tuesday’s closing arguments, which provided helpful summaries of what the trial evidence has disclosed.
Over and over again, Cheney and Libby treated classified information like the NIE not as something to be protected and shielded from exposure but rather as a weapon in a propaganda war. It was information to be selectively withheld or disclosed, misrepresented and misused to buttress arguments, confuse the public and punish political enemies. And when it came to the potential classified status of a covert CIA agent, there wasn’t the slightest concern shown by Cheney or Libby for Valerie Plame’s protection during that critical period of 2003. The astonishing thing after three weeks of trial, including over 8 hours of Libby’s Grand Jury testimony, is that not once did these men ask whether disclosing Valerie Plame’s job and status would cause harm to her, to her operation in the CIA or to the efforts and people in the broader intelligence community. Instead, as Fitzgerald noted in his closing argument today, “Wilson’s wife wasn’t a person but an argument.”
The total lack of concern in the OVP (Cathie Martin excepted) is in stark contrast to the concerns expressed by others who testified in the trial. I’ll just note a couple instances captured from Tueday’s closing arguments from Marcy’s live blogging. [Remember these snippets are not transcipts; they are not precise; they're Marcy's best efforts to capture and type the statements live. I've corrected some obvious typos but otherwise the indented portions are from two of Marcy's posts, Lbby Live: Zeidenberg's Prosecution Summation, One and Two.]
From Prosecutor Zeidenberg’s closing summary just after 9:43 and before 11:11 in Marcy’s live blog:
[CIA briefer] Grenier wasn’t sure he had shared the info on Plame. Unsure whether he shared it, but he knew he had gotten it, he wanted to err on side of caution. Now he testified at trial that he was sure. Want to remind you of how he accounted for that. Not memory of conversation, but memory of feeling of discomfort, that he had said too much, that he shouldn’t have shared info about someone who may have been covert. . . .
[Now goes to 10/04 article, with the B&J front, reading from article again] B&J leak. Talks about damage inadvertant disclosure of front company could form. Remember testimony of Schmall, CIA briefer. he told them disclosure is a serious business. People can get harrassed, people can get arrested, people can get killed. Addington testified that Libby asked him how you would know if someone was covert. Remember Addington’s answer: You wouldn’t know. Look at nondiclosure agreement.
[reading from it] Unauthorized disclosure of classified information can cause damage or irreperable injury to US. I understand that if I am uncertain, I am required to confirm that info is unclassified before I disclose it. I’ve been advised that any breach = termination of security clearance. He knows that, you can’t even be negligent.
The defense counsel did their best to prevent Fitzgerald from even talking about the potential damage Plame’s outing and the exposure of her Brewster Jennings cover might have done to the country, insisting that any evidence on that be considered solely for the purpose of indicating Libby’s “state of mind.” And so it does. We now have a trial record full of evidence on the cavalier state of mind of the Administration’s highest officials towards national security.
The evidence shows that Cheney and Libby were not merely negligent; they were reckless in how they treated classified information. That conclusion is inescapable, even though the prosecution made no effort in this trial to prove they were deliberate and intentional in outing Valerie Plame. [To be fair, the defense did not need to disprove intent, for the same reason.] Even Ari Fleischer understood how recklessly he had been used by Libby and the OVP:
Nevertheless, when Ari reads press accounts of criminal investigation, he is mortified, bc he sees that this info appears to have been classified, appears to have involved covert agent. Got a lawyer, got immunity.
The closing summaries recounted evidence showing that Scooter Libby and Karl Rove were also concerned about the possibility of disclosing classified information, but in their cases, and that of the Vice President, the concern was not about how best to protect the information but rather how best to frame and selectively leak it to what they hoped would be cooperative reporters willing to publish it. Judy Miller was an obvious candidate, but Libby’s June 23 and July 8 meetings and later phone call with Judy, authorized by Cheney, were unsuccessful; for once, she didn’t write what she was told, because they did not know (nor did it come out in trial) that Judy’s editors had effectively ruled out further Miller reporting on these topics. But Robert Novak did not have that limitation. He’d print whatever they wanted. Again from the trial evidence, as summarized (part One) Tuesday and live blogged by Marcy:
Next person, Judith Miller, June 23. Ms Miller, NYT reporter. Taking notes, recalls that he was upset, angry with CIA, felt they were backtracking on what they said publicly before the war. Very familiar with Wilson. Said Wilson ruse, irrelevancy, should be ignored, Familiar with Wilson’s trip, familiar with Wilson’s wife. He said she worked in the bureau. From context Miller understood as reference in CIA that deals with non-proliferation. Ms Miller was 6th person that Libby talked to about Wilson’s wife during that short span of time, June 11 to June 23, less than two weeks. [no discussion of Miller's credibility]
What’s next? Ari Fleischer, July 7. An event that stands out in Fleischer’s mind. He was leaving, only time he had had lunch with Libby. Fleischer’s memory of it clear. Future employment plans. Libby thanked him for comment in gaggle. Miami Dolphins. Mr Libby said he had info that was hush hush and on the QT. Wilson wasn’t sent by VP, but by CIA and that Wilson’s wife works in counter-proliferation division, the same diviision that Libby was told about and you saw referred to in note from VP. Mr Fleischer took this as gossip, as info that was passged on, unsual, Libby didn’t share info normally, he was not someone that Ari could get info normally. WHY did Libby choose to share this info with PS on that date. If you think it was because conversation lagged and he had run out ofthings to say, or did he tell him that bc it was Ari’s job to talk to the press, he could spread around without it ever coming back to him. I suggest it’s the latter, gave it to him deliberately hoping Ari would talk to reporters. That’s exactly what did happen. Gregory, Dickerson. Talks to them, tells people about Wilson’s wife.
And Libby understood that when he was talking to Judy Miller, he needed to conceal his identity further. From part One, just after 10:06:
She told you Libby was agitated, angry. She told about NIE, what was in there. Talked about Powell presentation. She told you ground rules changed in middle. First, referred to as SAO. Then rules change, I want to be referred to for this next portion as Former Hill Staffer. Libby didn’t work on Capitol Hill, worked in OVP. Didnt want this next part to be linked with him or his office. Conversation turns to Wilson and Wilson’s wife. He tells Ms Miller that Wilson’s wife works at WINPAC.
And finally, Karl Rove showed his concern for Plame’s possible security status by total indifference. He and Libby discussed their leak week’s efforts on Friday afternoon, but Libby’s GJ testimony on that conversation doesn’t reveal a word on either side expressing concern about whether they might have just exposed a CIA agent or compromised her work. They must have shared a laugh and a thumbs up when Rove said he knew that Novak’s column was coming out. Mission Accomplished. What do you want to bet that Rove had already seen Novak’s column, because it had been given to him by Novak’s and Rove’s Republican lobbyist buddy?
From Patrick Fitzgerald’s closing argument, live blogged here:
DONT YOU THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE ENTITELD TO ANSWERS? If as a result his wife had a job, she worked at CPD, she gets dragged into newspapers. People want to find out was a law broken, when people want to know, who did it. What role did Defendant play? What role did VP play? He told you he may have discussed this with VP. Don’t you think FBI deserves straight answers? When you go in that jury room, your common sense will tell you that he made a gamble. He threw sand in the eyes of the FBI. [When Libby lied,] he stole the truth from the judicial system. You return a guilty [verdict] and you give truth back.
If you missed it, check out last nights amazing video in which Jane, Christy and Marcy summarize yesterday’s closing arguments. It’s a keeper. And emptywheel has another great read on what this all might mean for the Vice President.
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Marcy!! Jane!! Christy!! Everyone at FDL making history by bringing us this level of detail on this story, you totally ROCK!!!
Emptywheel, before I read this post (I’m sure it will be good; it is a Scarecrow post, after all!), I, too, really must commend you for your efforts in live blogging this trial. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be. Thank you so much for your stellar efforts.
Some clown on CSPAN worries that “bloggers” were doing audio taping in the trial.
Good morning gang. Nice day in Cambridge.
Today’s treasure hunt. Who said this?
“The wheels are falling off the Bush Administration. Thousands of young kids are on the ground there. It’s a crazy period.”
“The wheels are falling off the Bush Administration. Thousands of young kids are on the ground there. It’s a crazy period.”
Haha! Ted Wells, he who has been in possession of Scooter Libby for the last month and wants him back!
I’m not sure if this has been discussed before, but I heard the other day on Bill Press’ show that the case started as an investigation into the leak of classified information and that these investigations are started at the request of the ‘wronged’ agency – in this case the CIA.
I know this probably over simplifies the situation, but if the CIA referred this to Justice can’t we take as all but confirmed that Plame’s status as a CIA employee was classified?
And therefore (probably oversimplifying again) it seems that if someone’s employment for the CIA is classified that that’s as good a definition of covert as there is.
Am I missing something obvious? Doesn’t the CIA’s interest in seeing this prosecuted trump everyone’s assumptions about her status?
What I want to know: is that lying skank Toensing compensated by the Libby defense team?
Why was she sitting with the defense yesterday in the courtroom — was this a form of non-monetary compensation for a slime-and-smear job well done?
Different topic, but same mindset of the Hydra that is the Evil Empire Bushco–Imus on a real tear this morning about Bldg. 18. Along with saying all 535 Congresspeople should be frogmarched down to see it…or forced to live in it…he riffs on smug Tony Snow trying to explain it away. Says the problem in the VA is systemic and goes back thru Clinton, the first Bush, too.
As for Bush and Chee-knee…”we all know they’re liars” “war criminals.”
The beauty that is Imus. Yes he has his schtick, but he says he himself didn’t ask questions either when he went thru Ward 57 at Walter Reed. He takes responsibility.
So this morning, I’m saluting the shining lights in the media these days. Our new media heroes, the FDL team that’s blogged and explained so magnificently the past few days.
Dana Priest and Anne Hull. Linda Douglass on last Sunday’s Reliable Sources. And, yep, the cranky bastard in the cowboy hat.
jhe @ 6
It was confirmed in Fitz’s indictment that Plame’s employment was in fact classified. Now I don’t think if we know from the indictment that she is “non-official cover”. Personally, I think she was a NOC and one of the pre-trial briefs (motions) talked about the dire national security consequences.
Prairie Sunshine @ 8
If you folks think that this shit with VA hospitals started with Bush you should watch “Coming Home” with Voight and Fonda. They said the same things back then, “we didn’t anticpate this level of activity”.
Rayne @ 7
I couldn’t read that WaPo Toensing piece b/c I thought that I’d vomit but it has always bugged me that she helped write that law with 14 (?) things you have to prove, making it virtually impossible to prosecute.
raven @ 3
Sure if by audio you mean Marcy listened with both ears.
First I want to thank the folks at this blog for the great coverage of the trial. It is this kind of effort that brings hope to those of us who believe the MSM waters down the information we get to bite sized bits that often miss the point of world events completely all the while trying to get us to buy ever more crap that we don’t need.
This is not a new idea but if I or any of my family or friends had done what Libby did in terms of lying to FBI agents ( never mind the outing of a covert CIA agent ) we would either have been flipped to give up everyone we ever met who ever parked illegally in a handicap parking space or we would be doing serious jail time. We would not have the Vice Presidunce raising money for our defense.
My hope for today is that the jury gets the case and decides in ten minutes that he is guilty of all charges and Fitz starts asking his lawyer if there is anything new the Scooter would like to divulge about White House crimes.
egregious @ 12
I’m sorry, this dope was saying that bloggers and their technolgy may have recorded the trial.
This may sound crazy, but I always thought Miller never wrote a story on the Plame deal is because her & Chalabi were the ones Brewster & Jennings were trying to expose. Scooter called her in the beginning of June and asked her to leak. She was too in shock to leak. She met Scooter twice. The first time he met he told her to use SAO as a source. The second time he met her all agitated asking her why she still hasn’t written the story and to quote him as a Hill Staffer.
jhe (6) — I asked that and went a little further a few days ago when Toensing’s piece of crap article was published.
If Valerie Plame’s employment did not fall within the definitions required by the IIPA, why did not Tenet, Goss, Hayden, McConnell, and Negroponte yank the referral by the CIA?
Any and all of these folks could have and should have asked the status of the Plame referral to DOJ; did they also see the same case that eventually forced Ashcroft to recuse himself?
Come to think of it, if there was no legitimate case, why did Ashcroft recuse himself? Why did Comey seek a special prosecutor? It’s not like either Ashcroft or Comey are rapid partisan lambs of the left…
Toensing knows better, too, having been instrumental in drafting the IIPA. This should make it extremely clear that Toensing is whoring for somebody, for something.
I’m off to work, but I just have to thank you, Christy.
Rayne @ 7
Yeah, been wondering about that one. We need to ask Christy if a prosecutor would normally file a motion with the court, and since Libby’s is also a defendant in the civil case, the plaintiff’s counsel might well object there too. But I haven’t seen a think on this.
jhe — your logic is way to simple for the detractors to grasp.
egregious – The CSPAN caller’s statement was about bloggers and technology in the courtroom. He said something on the order of – don’t be surprised, because of webcams and video on cell phones, if an audio/video recording of some of the trial surfaces at some point. Meek said that if that happened, Walton would most likely haul them in and charge them w/ contempt because they were credentialed and the rules were set at the beginning.
twolf1 @ 19
The slander is the presumption that unidentified bloggers would do this, but no one else would. But the technology is available to everyone.
Good Morning Firedogs,
Prairie – I can see where you’re going, but Don Imus loudly supported Joe Lieberman and called a vocal war critic; Ned Lamont a wimp – and until I hear him acknowledge he enabled the enablers (including all the cocktail weenie guzzlers), he can kiss this hippie’s behind.
Miss Vicky – for those of you familiar with WaPo’s history and the Janet Cooke episode – I wrote and asked them why didn’t they just call Toesuck’s piece Libby’s World ?
twolf1 @ 19
All recording equipment and most cel phones were confiscated at security, which had a metal detector and an x-ray screener like airports, at the entrance to the courthouse. They were particularly keen to see if cel phones had a camera—verboten. Also no laptops were allowed in the courtroom itself, only the media room downstairs, which had the official video feed from the courtroom.
egregious @ 22
Like I said, this guy was obviously a dope. Of course after Sadaam’s video. . .
coupla points;
covert status is usually thought of in terms of “either covert or not”, that’s far from the reality
yes, there are very distinct categories of covert that CIA operatives use, but there are not so distinct as well
there are layers and layers that most people don’t appreciate of covert opps and operatives…there’s an almost endless list of components.
Some cover is real thin and disposable, meaning a person could be enlisted for a particular opp and that’s it, then once the opp is complete, their life continues as though they were never involved.
Other forms of cover are so layered and deep that they even anticipate probing into the operative from every facet of a person’s life, they create childhood, shcooling, friends, lovers, travel.
there are also somethings as thin as “works for the CIA but not undercover” while in fact that is their cover, therefore gaining a degree of confidentiality they couldn’t achieve if it weren’t known they actually do word for the government
once one of these opps are exposed as being under cover, that’s the end of their effectiveness in that capacity and that cover is blown
of course everyone knows about double double and so on, they know you are covert, they flip you, you inform our government of your flip and bing, double double
endless scenarios, not simply “noc or not noc”
‘morning all… just getting caught up this a.m.
excellent, Scarecrow! and the Politicstv with Jane, Redd and Marcy is just fabulous!
coffee anyone?
Scarecrow @ 20
Judging by the depth of their coverage, I had just figured that the MSM was using stone tablets and chisels.
Larry Johnson has a new post up this am, explaining to confused journalists the issues surrounding Valerie Plame’s employment status at the CIA: Was She Covert?
Woodhall Hollow @
5
Ding! Good catch; I missed that in the live blog, but it’s in this a.m.’s NYT, front page left.
Morning Everyone!
Still glowing after yesterday. Did I dream all that? EW’s fingers were smoking!
Fitz came thru, eh?! Still don’t have the finals in, but hard to know how one could ask for more.
He was amazing, and it felt as if we were right there. Thankyou again to EVERYONE involved in accomplishing that near-miracle. You made history. HAH!
Now, back to be a good girl and savor every word.
I really appreciate your careful analyses, Scarecrow! Can’t wait to read this one with my coffee. Ahhhh.
My concern about the jury is that there will be some nut case who wants their 15 minutes of fame by voting not gulity. The nut jobs picture and comments would be all over the papers and the national inquirer . Another troubling thought is that Bush and Co. might have a plant on the jury, we have no reason to trust this administration.
I’m gonna tell you the strategy the democrats and all of us who blog MUST invoke
we MUST be aggresively INDIGNANT that anyone thinks libby should get a pardon, to which the whurlitzer is alreday sending out their trial balloons I might add
when someone even insinuates libby get a pass, call libby the TRAITOR he is, make it CLEAR he protected the TRAITOR that out his personal indignation ahead of our NATIONAL SECURITY, that he committed TREASON, is protecting people who commit TREASON and “if you think this traitor should go free I have NO idea where YOUR loyalty resides, because you are NO friend of America”
man, I would LOVE to see that kind of dialogue from our next presidential candiates
Scarecrow,
thank you for another well written piece, very much appreciate the read, and your helping out the Goddesses
someone posted an essay circa 1970 about the neglect of Viet Nam vets in one of the evening threads – forgot to save it – anyone ?
When Libby is found guilty, how long will it be before sentencing occurs and will he actually do ANY time before the pardon comes down?? Can Fitzy do anything to make sure Libby wears prison garb..I guess my hope is that Libby freaks out @ the idea of serving a month or so and he decides that he’d rather give up ANYONE to avoid that scenario!
Scarecrow @
28
Aw, Wells stole that from a recent thought bubble above Tony Blair’s head ;)
I was talking to an information-challenged friend about this case. She was parrotting the MSM so what line. I deluged her with details. The eureka moment came when she put it together and asked me in incredulous tones, “You mean, it’s like Tony Blair’s secretary outing James Bond?”
Well, I hadn’t thought of it that way, but yes, that’s what it’s like.
Woodhall Hollow @ 27
Ah, Thanks for that link; I’ve added it in an update. Refresh.
Please read what Jesselyn Radack wrote about government failures on the war on terrorism. She also speaks on how the white house goes after the ‘little guys’ (like her, the Wilsons, etc…) to divert attention off their bigger failings.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/21/55646/8246
More about Jesselyn Radack here:
http://jesselyn-radack.dailykos.com/
And like the predictable shill he is, Byron York comes through with the meme:
The Libby Low Point [Byron York]
I have a new story on closing arguments at the Libby trial. It was a bizarre day, reaching a low point when prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald told the jury that Lewis Libby knew that pointing out Valerie Wilson’s role in sending her husband to Africa was “something…that could lead to people being killed.” The defense objected, because the judge had long ago told the jury that there would be no evidence presented about whether Mrs. Wilson’s job status at the CIA was covert, classified, or other, and that jurors could not consider it in their deliberations. But Fitzgerald ignored the judge’s prohibition and plowed ahead
Prairie Sunshine @ 8
Olbermann asked last night, along with much of the WH press corp, where is the outrage? My understanding is the outrage from the right was been at Dana Priest for reporting this and not the VA. They deny there is a problem. Typical.
A KO guest also pointed out that most people think Supporting the Troops is buying a $3 yellow magnet for your SUV made in CHINA.
Hence, I propose a snarky new ribbon magnet: Support Our Overseas Car Magnet Makers.
Drinksforall @ 33
Once he is pardoned he can no longer take the fifth. Then if he does not answer that nice Mr. Fitzgerald’s questions it’s contempt and Scooter gets a timeout in the slammer like JudyJudyJudy. Until he talks.
I believe this would hold true even if he is not pardoned but only convicted and not sentenced, or will that get held up until the appeals are exhausted? Anyone know how that would work?
I’m going to try asking this one more time. If Fitz has plenary powers, why are there only two laws considered for charges in the outing Valerie Plame. I know I’ve read articles like this one that say more should be under consideration. Furthermore, (and this I’ve asked several times, and not gotten an answer for yet) who is responsible for enforcement of SF-312? Could one of the lawyer types that visit this site please take pity on me and tell me how SF-312 gets enforced?
. . .to the astonished delight of those in the media room, Ms. Wheeler ended the session by kneeling in front of her laptop, setting it ablaze, teasing the flames, smiled knowlingly and exited stage left . . .
Rayne @ 5:44 am –
To add to what you mentioned in your comment, let us recall that Judge Tatel and other judges on the Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia are well aware of the gravity of the charges to which you have alluded. Aren’t portions of a pertinent 2004 opinion written by Judge Tatel still redacted?
Scarecrow -
One correction needs to be made in the third paragraph of your post: “Since a violation of disclosure statutes was not being charged in this trial, and the Libby Court and
FiztpatrickFitzgerald fully understood the CIA’s dilemma…”Oh..and sorry for the ‘promo’ but Jesselyn Radack will be on WORT-FM today (1pm est). I believe they are taking callers too.
The interview with Estie Dinur can be streamed and the interviews are usually available later too.
http://www.wort-fm.org/
Scarecrow @ 28
I was following the live blogging avidly yesterday and I thought that Marcy had somehow mistyped that–or abbreviated something — somehow when I first read it. What a shocker to hear Libby’s lawyer say that — and I am betting that Wells surprised Libby as much as he surprised us with that.
someone posted an essay circa 1970 about the neglect of Viet Nam vets in one of the evening threads – forgot to save it – anyone ?
Neglect
Attaturk @ 38
Of course, Fitzgerald did not violate a court warning. As I show in the post, the statement about the danger in exposing an agent came from a government witness, a CIA employee, and that was admissable. So there’s nothing unethical or unlawful about Fitz summarizing that statement. And he introduced the non-disclosure agreement that Libby had signed, indicating that you need to check before blabbing something that might be classified. Fitz never argued that Libby knew Plame’ status. The point was, he didn’t check and wasn’t allowed to guess. So York is totally off base — or at a low point.
I loved Fitz’ sarcasm yesterday when he said, “How would the conversation have happened on July 11, if Rove said, that I just found about Novak. What would libby have said? Oh, I found about it tomorrow from Matt Cooper.”
HotFlash @ 35
I agree, the issue is too complex for most lay people, and easy confused via right wing spin. Despite my knowledge, I too get lost following emptywheel’s and eriposte’s detailed blogs. So imagine the general public. We need a bumper sticker explanation that cuts through the spin.
I had a similar experience explaining it to a republican neighbor. He was so confused after my clear explanation, that he thought the Democrats outed her! So there is a lot of residual slant the needs to be removed before people will get it.
cbl @ 42
sort of like jimi at monterey after he set his guitar on fire.
thank you raven !
dmg,
moneterey was my exact impression of Marcy’s performance yesterday – as my kids would say, She is the shizznet!!!
Stephen Parrish 43: thanks. I do that about half the time and was fixing several last night. Missed that one. It’s fixed.
Scarecrow, thank you for the writing. If I tried to summarize my outrage over this, and the reasons I follow it so closely, it would be nothing but expletives as I struggled to express it.
It’s wrong, on so many levels, what this administration did, but the thing that just makes me see red and sputter incoherently is the absolute cavalier way they simply don’t give a flying f about the consequences, to real people, of what they did.
I about cheered out loud, in the middle of the office, when I read the liveblogging of Fitzgerald bringing it back around to the fact that this was a person, with a life, a career, and to the OVP, she was nothing – an argument.
I already admired Fitz, but that moment, when he so eloquently demonstrated that Fitz got it, was almost magical. I hope the jury did too.
Ann in AZ, Thank you for finding that article!!!!
I have been wondering for sometime whether there are other statutes which may have been violated by the Cheney-Libby team.
One thing which has been allowed to be stated as “fact” in the trial is that Valerie Plame’s employment status (whatever the hell it was) was classified info. Actually, it still is.
So, for that reason, I have always been of the opionion that if high govt officials with security clearance are held to a very high bar as to what they may and may not talk about. Its not simply a matter of “leaking” info to the press, rather it is talking about classified info with people who should not be spoken to, such as Libby’s little hush, hush on the QT with Ari Fleisher.
Dean’s article clears up a lot of confusion I have had in this matter and points in the direction/s in which Fitz is likely contemplating.
Having Libby convicted as a liar and an obstructer of justice would make it easier to bring other kinds of charges.
OT
The British are leaving!
The British are leaving!
– Paul Reverse
If I were to speculate I’d say that Cheney/Libby consulted with Toensing, directly or through a third party (Matalin?), about the possibility of whether Plame was cover.
Toensing’s confident, but wrong, position was what they went with, to their regret.
Ann in AZ @ 41
I’ll take a stab at the first question.
The prosecution’s case was narrowly written to avoid graymail, which is the defense’s request for a blizzard of classified information that then cannot be provided.
Attaturk @ 38
Bwahahahaha Attaturk. From yesterday I happened to note this:
York is such a WATB tool, and I’m curious as to why he didn’t take many notes but then tries to come off as some expert.
oh per-ris, she cooed in her sing song voice . . .
am suddenly superstitious, but we are so talking once the verdict comes in ;)
John Forde – 707 !
HotFlash @ 35
Yeah. Some network muckey-muck (I can’t remember which) recently tried to excuse their non-coverage of the case by asking his questioner, “Explain it in thirty seconds.”
Let’s see… “The chief of staff to the Vice President of the United States is accused of lying to cover up the fact that the administration outed a CIA officer to try to discredit a critic who had exposed their lies about Iraqi WMD.”
(Or the more snarky: “You’re not covering it because you can’t explain it in thirty seconds. Just like Whitewater, right?”)
If I were to speculate I’d say that Cheney/Libby consulted with Toensing, directly or through a third party (Matalin?), about the possibility of whether Plame was undercover.
Toensing’s confident, but wrong, position was what they went with, to their regret.
(correction)
cbl @ 51
Far-called, our navies melt away;
On dune and headland sinks the fire:
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet.
Lest we forget—lest we forget!
RK
egregious @ 58
and that’s the point we HAVE to make when in conversation…the ONLY reason more crimes weren’t charged is because the TRAITORS would try to use classified information to defend themselves and that would not be allowed
bing, A TRAITOR WOULD GO FREE
instead, the government used laws that needed no classified information for defense of said crime
John Forde @ 56
Punaise is in trouble.
York is such a WATB tool, and I’m curious as to why he didn’t take many notes but then tries to come off as some expert.
Because he only wanted to write down points that would help his own arguement. Which were none.
I’ll speculate and say that Cheney/Libby consulted with Toensing, directly or through a third party (Matalin?), about the possibility of whether Plame was undercover, around the same time Libby approached Addington.
Toensing’s confident, but wrong, position was what they went with, to their regret.
kim @ 57
Oh, Kim, wouldn’t that be the supreme irony? That Toensing, she of the weak (yet possibly criminal effort at jury-tampering) WaPo op-ed, might have been the source of the advice that drove Shooter to go over the edge? OmiGAWD wouldn’t that be marvelous??? :) Please someone, prove it…
Aren’t they starting at 9.30?
when does the judge charge the jury?
do we get a script before the charge?
Stephen Parrish (43) — exactly; there were (8) pages of redacted text, if memory serves, in that (88) page document regarding the Miller-Cooper decision.
Put another way, this means that at least two functions within the Executive Branch understood the magnitude of the breach of national security — the CIA demonstrated it, in filing the referral to the DOJ, and the DOJ, in its continued investigation and prosecution of the matter.
And the Judiciary also understood the magnitude of the breach, in its handling of the case.
The Legislative Branch doesn’t have a dog in the race, but nobody in the Legislative Branch to my knowledge is working on new legislation to repeal or modify the IIPA — so maybe the Legislative Branch grasps the magnitude of the security breach, too.
The only government functions that don’t seem to grok the breach are the Executive Office and the Office of the Vice President. Perhaps that cloud hanging overhead has been obsuring their vision…
egregious.
That C-Span caller you’re worried about sounds typical of what the wingnuts try to do to blow smoke if their heros are getting in trouble and, last time I looked (was it only yesterday?!?), their guys are definitely in deep doo doo. I often wonder if rover isn’t feeding the nut-squad callers, but of course rush, hume, kristol, etc. do so constantly, and I’m not sure there’s much we can do about that, unless some of the firepups want to call in also and set things straight.
I think we can take some considerable solace from the fact that blogging, SERIOUS bloggers, have “arrived” in the arena, and have shown their credentials to he honestly won and their behavior to be impeccable, even amazing. Look at Marcy. She’s a star(!), and even had a buncha MSMs trying to kibbitz over her shoulder. No doubt in my mind, they respect her, & they’ve probably quietly ordered their own copies of her book on the sly, heh.
I worried at 1st that blogging might be disallowed, but I don’t see how they can do that. They’ve set up a press room, dang it! And they’ve taken pains to make sure there’s no contact tw’ the pressroom and the jury.
I’ll bet all the MSM guys have their phones, laptops and whatnot in there. How can they exclude someone because she or he’s able to type fast and has an incredible knowledge of the subject matter?
[Anyone who hasn’t yet, BUY MARCY’s BOOK! oh puleeze. It’s a bargain. And even though she’s well on her way to being famous, I’ll bet she’d be sweet enough to sign it for you some day when you meet up ;->]
I am so proud of the whole crew who put together, tended, and mended this trial coverage, I could just pop! Thanks ALL!
this should be hammered home as often as possible, to beat back the core of the right-wing confusion campaign. even after a guilty verdict, they will pound their theme like a drum. “criminalization of politics, prosecutor gone wild, everybody does it” — and as proof for these claims, always fall back on the idea that no one was indicted on charges of outing a covert operative.
even folks inside the beltway — democrats who should know better — buy this argument about “poor libby” and the “weakness” of fitz’s case.
it needs to be explained repeatedly, until it’s understood. fitz and his team were really sharp to go the way they did — and even then they had a tall order, building a case that could withstand a “he said, she said” reasonable doubt defense. after yesterday’s closing statements, who doubts that they made their case?
Asked about Tony Blair’s announcement today that the U.K. will cut troop levels in Iraq by 1,600 — from 7,100 down to 5,500 — Vice President Dick Cheney “said the move was actually good news and a sign of progress in Iraq.” Later in the day, he told a group of U.S. troops, “I want you to know that the American people will not support a policy of retreat.”
That’s right. Remember up is down and left is right.
egregious @ 69
Probably discussions in chambers; the FDL Plame team will check in as soon as things start up. I don’t see anything posted behind the scenes yet.
kim @ 57
I don’t think Toensing’s position is confident, I think it’s BS. That is, I don’t think she cares whether it’s true or not, the purpose is to create an impression, not to arrive at the truth. Her purpose was solely to create the impression that Libby shouldn’t be convicted.
For example, she, like any lawyer, knows that the idea that “if other people weren’t indicted, Libby shouldn’t have been indicted either” has no basis in law or in fact. But it’s convincing to people who want to believe it, so she throws it out there.
She and DiGenova are both professional BS artists; when they appear in the media or in print, their sole purpose is to shill for the right wing. Their answer will always be Republican=innocent, Democrat=guilty; truth has nothing to do with it.
Ann in AZ @ 41
Ann, IANAL but normally breach of a federal law is investigated byby the FBI and prosecuted by DOJ. In this case I’ll warrant that nothing has happened so far because Fitz is the man. Here is the letter appointing him:
Dear Patrick,
By the authority vested in the Attorney General by law, including 28 U. S .C. sections 509, 510, and 515, and in my capacity as Acting Attorney General pursuant to 28 U.S.C. section 508, I hereby delegate to you all the authority of the Attorney General with respect to the Department’s investigation into the alleged unauthorized disclosure of a CIA employee’s identity, and I direct you to exercise that authority as Special Counsel independent of the supervision or control of any officer of the Department.
/s/ James B. Comey James B. Comey Acting Attorney General
(originals of that stuff here)
And the Mr. Scooter case is, as someone called it yesterday, “brush clearing” for the real job. Fitz powers are broad, but he is also playing his cards close to his chest for strategic reasons. We will see what laws Fitz is citing when the next indictment(s) is handed down. Hang on to your hats, this is going to be a wild ride.
(h/t to whoever’s phrase that is/was, great image)
cbl @ 52
props to you for conveying that image. it’s dead on.
I have long suspected that there’s very big elephant in the room that no one’s looking at. Remember all those trips that Cheney made to CIA headquarters, complaining, prodding, demanding that they bring him more and better intelligence about Iraq’s WMD?
Who was the head of the CPD’s Iraq operation? That’s right, Valerie Plame Wilson.
I suspect that Cheney knew that. I suspect that she may have briefed him. She will never say, of course. He certainly was given reports that were produced by her and her group.
I think that Cheney was blind with rage at the CIA, saw Joe Wilson’s OpEd as yet another attack on him and his war by the CIA, and struck back by destroying the CPD network that had so frustrated him for so long.
Blowing Plame’s cover and destroying Brewster Jennings were not an accidental side-effect of trying to discredit Joe Wilson. It was the main event.
beth meacham @ 78
I don’t think cheney had any personal experience of valery
he was too inquisitive in his notes when talking about her
though I would love to believe your scenario, the dots don’t connect for me
John Forde @
56
LOL
but seriously, the Danes are outta there too by August and this is what the shooter sez:
mission impossible and deluded.
http://www.rawstory.com//news/….._0221.html
I don’t know if Cheney knew her, but I think they were sending a clear message to anyone who would cross them.
It wasn’t just about getting BJ, which I think they were after. I think it was about making sure that everybody knew you toed the line, or there would be reprecussions. You would give them what they wanted, and you would keep your mouth shut about it, or something bad could happen to you.
This administration makes the Russian mob look like choir boys.
HotFlash @ 35
Bond (on the electric rack):
Goldfinger (hand on switch):
Bond:
Goldfinger:
(merciful fadeout)
leinie @ 81
only more inept
Scarecrow, thank you for this and for many of your additions to this process. I’ve often found your insight very clarifying.
And from today, this sentence is one I’ll keep handy — it sums it all up better than any single statement I’ve yet heard:
“We now have a trial record full of evidence on the cavalier state of mind of the administration’s highest officials towards national security.”
Yes, folks, THIS is why it matters!
To continue Redshifts great riff above on this, we used to joke: “I’m not conceited I’m confident.” Toensing is conceited. And wrong on everything.
Libby trial actually made it all the way up to page A10 of the L.A. Times this morning.
In an otherwise undistinguished article Times staffers managed to say that Fitzgerald’s summation, after the initial “Madness,Madness” had worn off, put the jurors to sleep & that he talked so fast “it was hard to make out his words.” No mention of Wells choking up & crying, although I notice they quoted his “Think about the madness of this prosecution” & plea that Libby should get a fair shake because “this is a man w/a wife and two children.”
Oh, the wonderful coverage of important news stories we get in the Times now that Tribune has taken it over. Times also now prefers Jonah Goldberg on the Op-Ed Page over Robert Sheer, whom they fired…
Shez,
apparently you didn’t catch my erudite explanation for same in last evening’s threads – the young York frittered away his prized access alternatively fantasizing about hot tub time with the baliffs and ogling all the ladies manolos*g*
dmg @ 73
They convicted Al Capone of tax evasion, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a racketeer.
turned to the hubster on 12/19/00 -
“These beasts will make the Reaganites look amish”
gwen @ 48
man, I wish I wrote that….that breaks me up every time I hear it
I am hoping snl, oberman or stewart pounds that one down
A Raw Story headline about someone who has been involved to some extent with the CIA leak case:
Bolton tell-all memoir to slam State Department …SOON
On This Day In History:
February 21, 1975: John N. Mitchell, H. R. Haldeman, and John Ehrlichman were sentenced to prison for obstruction of justice in the Watergate scandal.
Visualize Scooter frogmarched!
perris @ 80
Perris, the Cheney notes do seem inquisitive, but last night when I was reading over the summation I thought it was not like he was jotting down questions for someone to answer. It was more like he was drafting talking points. If so, he could have known a whole lot about her, and esp what she and the CIA could not do/say to defend her.
Adie @ 6:31 -
[snip]
I’m not sure there’s much we can do about that, unless some of the firepups want to call in also and set things straight. [snip]
Actually, it was another caller to the Washington Journal segment this a.m. who did bring up FDL (& twolf can help me remember correctly here) by saying the Lake was where she was gettin her info on the trial……..her comments sorta started the ball rolling w/the positive remarks that were made about bloggers by James Meek from the NY Daily News.
Ambassador Wilson! Hello, and thank you, to you and your lovely wife.
The Capone comment? Very apt.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 92
bolton?
I can’t believe he would throw anyone under the bus
this I will actually buy if true
good morning, Ambassador.
Hope this is the very beginning of Justice and respect for the rule of law returned to our country.
Joe Wilson @ 89
Great point Joe Wilson, and it is such a treat and an honor to see you here!
beth meacham @ 79
I asked this same question to Joe Wilson last Fall. He does not believe this adminstration is competent enough to have pulled such trick.
cbl — I was away for a while and lost your timestamp, but I do take your point about Imus and J-Lie. Imus is to J-Lie as Russert/MTP was to Matalin.
Useful tool.
Mutual admiration society. Ego-stroked, unquestioned, loyal to a fault on this one.
Phoenix Woman @ 93
I remember it well. I was in 3rd year law school, and California had just instituted a new “ethics” section to the California Bar exam.
beth meacham @ 79
Agreed, with a twist, beth. I thought that Shooter did the outing of Plame and the destruction of BJ because he got three major bennies from it…
(1) He could use “the wife sent him on a junket” to try to discredit Wilson via the press;
(2) He could destroy BJ which was, and had always been, an impediment to selling the war to a snookered American people; and finally
(3) Since blowing BJ very likely caused deaths amongst BJ personnel and their contacts, Shooter could use (2) as what it was: as a DEATH THREAT against anyone in the US Government, saying in effect, “If you go up against me, I will have you killed.”
… of course he never expected it to blowback and cause his indictment and removal from office along with all his neocon spawn, nope nosirree! :)
Oh wait, about that last para. I found about it a couple of months from now, from Patrick Fitzgerald! :)
perris at 67:
bing, A TRAITOR WOULD GO FREE
instead, the government used laws that needed no classified information for defense of said crime
Yes, but my point is, while we’re waiting for the other shoe to drop on Libby, et al, Rove goes on merrily creating more problems, and he should not be in a position to have access to classified information! We already know that he did not comply properly with SF-312, don’t you think? So why shouldn’t he at least be stripped of his ability to access classified information while we wait for the other shoe to drop?
Ambassador Wilson:
I also say hello to you and your very patient (I’m assuming, to put up with all this mess) wife.
The Capone analogy is great. Sometimes, we have the use the weapons we have, not the ones we’d prefer to have!
Pectopah @ 100
LOL! Perhaps true. But I do think they’re mean enough to try it. Or maybe it was Chalabi, Iranian Spy, urging them on.
Joe Wilson @ 89
that’s a great point as a lead, followed by something similar to what I posted previously;
man, I would LOVE to see that kind of dialogue from our next presidential candiates
Good morning, Mr. Ambassador. An honor to have you stop by. Interesting times we live in.
Nola Sue @ 85
AFP (French Press Agency) story carried by Raw Story:
waving wildly to Ambassador Wilson . . .
maybe you could get the lemmings over at WaPo Editorial Board to let you write a short piece -
What I Didn’t Find In Toensing’s Screed
that whole balanced thingy and all*g*
i’ve always thought it was so typical of cheney’s limited corporate imagination that a JUNKET was the worst aspersion he could cast on the niger mission.
as if the ambassador was really itching for a trip to africa, and this was his free ticket there. sweeeet.
Sorry, I shouldn’t have tried editing comments.
Pectopah @ 100
Ambassador Wilson!
If you are in the house, perhaps you should speak for you, instead of me.
FDL’s hot shit right now. When Joe Wilson shows up, we all become giggling schoolgirls! I mean I do.
Ambassador, we all share your wish for justice in this case, and that the inquiry won’t end with the Libby trial.
Scarecrow said:
I was struck more by their overt, intentional and malignant motivations to use classified information, and even the classification process itself, to harm this country and its citizens.
Twas not an inadvertent “slip of the tongue” that betrayed Valerie Plame nor sent us to war in Iraq, but a deliberate and malicious, perhaps even evil, group of souls who still haunt this nation.
Have I missed it? Have the refutations of The Fragant Victoria appeared in any medium of comparable coverage?
The reason the WaPo is so protective of Libby may not be unconnected with The Lobby/PNAC/AIPAC of course………
Hey there.
We’ve already gone to camera this morning, apparently we’ve got an issue with a juror. I’ll post in about 10 minutes.
Pectopah @ 113
I don’t think he’s speaking for you pechtopah [snark]
emptywheel @ 116
Hmmm. Media contamination? One wonders….
emptywheel @ 116
damn it, I was about to get some work done, now I have to hang around to hear this
Scarecrow @
75
I’m imagining Libby back there in chambers begging Fitz to offer him a deal.
A man can dream, can’t he?
perris @ 79
I always regarded Cheney’s notes not as inquisitive, but as an attempt to convey orders while not incriminating himself. As in, do ya suppose? nudge nudge, wink wink.
Obviously, I have no proof, but that’s the probable scenario I thought was strongly implied by more informed suspicious minds than my own, some many months ago in this saga…
So yeah, Beth. I’m seeing that elephant pret-ty clearly in my viewfinder…. uh huh, ohhh yeahhh.
ruh-roh…hope it’s just an itty-bitty issue.
perris @ 117
I just think he can more acurately relects his own views better!
Marie Roget @ 6:43 -
The LATimes used to be on my daily on-line “must read” list to find out what was happening on the west coast……they also turned out some good investigative journalism. You’ve just reminded me that it would be worth the time to trash it from the bookmark list…….they’ve become nothing but another piece of garbage.
it was a sicilian message to anyone even contemplating countering their crap, esp those in the intel community
and btw, these beasts do not do modulation, I believe they would have taken out entire branches or units just as easily as Ms. Plame and BJ, and would have done it to make a minor point
To the Administration, Ambassador Wilson’s wife wasn’t a person and I doubt that Ambassador Wilson was a person. Clearly, none of the people serving in Iraq are ‘persons’ to the Administration. The citizens of the country are not ‘persons’. Didn’t the founders of this nation fight a war to end this kind of rule?
Pectopah @ 123
I was just having fun with your quote, I understood what you were saying
i am honored, sir.
maunga @ 115
-unh- Flagrant Victoria? Malodorous? hm-m-m…
Okay, I’m gonna take one more stab at this and commit to something that’s been in the back of my mind. I really think the reason that SF-312 has not been enforced is that the President has somehow put the kabosh on enforcement of it. I think until Pat Fitzgerald is ready to take on the President, it will not be enforced because Pat has already been given orders that if he steps over that line in the sand, he will get sandbagged. It won’t just be sand in his eyes anymore. Pat is indeed walking a very fine line.
You know I’m trying very hard to understand the psychology of Cheney& Co. & Novack. I have to confess I am at a loss to understand why they felt they had the right to discard and discredit everyone and everything that disproved their “evidence” for going to war. Cheney must have felt his “right” was so absolute that it took precedence over other peoples’ lives. That is very hard-to-understand psychology.
cbl @ 125
my understanding is the mafia does not go after family.
this was cowardice, they attacked Joe’s wife for the act of patriotism Joe undertook.
cowards, attacking wives, like they did with mccain, like they did with kerry
Pectopah @ 113
Much as I too hope that the blogger signing in as Joe Wilson is indeed Ambassador Joe Wilson, American Hero, I cannot be sure. Would that it were so.
Even if not, I do hear that the real Ambassador Wilson (and/or Ms. Plame Wilson) are reading this blog. May I express my sincere gratitude for your brave services to our country. And I don’t care whether you voted (R) in the past; I only know and respect that you voted for TRUTH during your recent tribulations.
Thank you again fellow patriots, and (((FDL/Jane)))
BTW, Hi, Ambassador Wilson! So glad to hear from you here. I loved your comment about Al Capone; it was a point well taken.
To the hardcore Bush believers, their opposition is not human. Only the believers and their family, friends and allies matter.
Imagine the horror of the Bush believers if Mrs. Alito was subjected to the exact same treatment as Mrs. Wilson?
-GSD
mui @ 132
i don’t have the psychology textbooks handy, but it’s truly not that hard to understand psychopathy.
Ann in AZ @ 129
evidence suggesting what you’re saying could be true(?):
Fitz didn’t attack veep directly from the get-go but, instead, essentially ambushed him in the closer yesterday(?)
IANAL by any stretch, so may be way way off base with this. but wondering…
S.O.S. in MA @ 134
Ambassador Wilson himself does occasionally grace us with his presence.
I imagine if it were an impostor the mods would whisk that comment out of here. No sockpuppets permitted, and no use of a real person’s name by someone else, if I understand the rules correctly.
mui @ 130
Actually, its not if you understand that at their core they are bullies.
jhe – I think so – and Larry Johnson’s piece says as much
http://noquarter.typepad.com/m…..overt.html
Adie @ 130
“Malodourous” is a piker compared with my fragrant! I was thinking of the fragrance of a 20 hole open ditch latrine in a desert base camp at midday…… hence the “Fragrant”.
GSD @ 136
How dare they call Alito the B* word in front of his wife and children (/snark).
perris,
of course you are right about the Mafia and their own little code – but Ms Plame was not a Long Island housewife
if you are so inclined, please read this interview , think it’s about 2 pages- and even if we still don’t agree, you will at least see what colors my thinking -
Steve Coll – Cheney & CIA
perris @ 133
it’s the code of keyser soze. THAT’S what they aspire to.
“He lets the last Hungarian go. He waits until his wife and kids are in the ground and then he goes after the rest of the mob. He kills their kids, he kills their wives, he kills their parents and their parents’ friends. He burns down the houses they live in and the stores they work in, he kills people that owe them money. And like that he was gone. Underground. Nobody has ever seen him since. He becomes a myth, a spook story that criminals tell their kids at night. ‘Rat on your pop, and Keyser Soze will get you.’ And no-one ever really believes.”
Hello Ambassador Wilson, if you are reading here.. Robin Kealy is a friend of mine.
Ann in AZ @ 129
Agreed. I am so old that I remember when a government fell b/c some old fart was a regular at a brothel (I am talking abt the Profumo Scandal). But that was also back in the day when a teacher would say, “Stop that!” and everyone would stop everything!
Nothing, *NOTHING*, makes these guys stop. “Yeah, so we lied, we stole, we cheated, we killed, we got your kids killed, so what? And we have gay hookers in the White House. You gonna stop us?”
Well yeah, we are. Thank you, Mr. Fitzpatrick and all the people in government who are working so hard to save America from these shameless pirates. Flowers crack boulders just by keeping up the pressure.
I have wondered that myself and assume there is an automatic filter that blocks imposters, and checks against a validated email address. Can a moderator please comment?
emptywheel has a New Thread upstairs!
SOS in MA –
It’s the real Joe Wilson. Count on it.
egregious @ 139
That’s GREAT to know, thanks egregious. (waves at Ambassador Joe Wilson, mouthing THANKS AGAIN across the ether) :)
(and thanks also to peterr)
==========
Now if we can just hear that all is OK in juror-land I might actually get some woik done today…
Them gals be awesome.
dmg @ 137
O.K. collective psychopathy. Mobbing, bullying. Of course, there’s that tendancy in offices politics, high school etc, mostly without the criminal behavior though.
maunga @ 140
oh yeah. gotcha. jes tryin to translate for Byron hairdoo et al. ;->
And in honor of Ambassador Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson’s continuing heroic struggle to prevail against this criminal administration, I repost a rant from a few days ago:
I would also urge those who have donated so generously to help FDL cover this travesty, to also consider helping Ambassodor Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson defray their enormous expenses in trying to bring these miscreants to court.
The Wilsons are facing a deep-pocketed array of wingnuts whose intent is to roadblock, delay and financially overwhelm the Wilsons and deprive them of their day in court.
You can donate at The Joe and Valerie Wilson Legal Support Trust.
Good people can’t prevail unless other good people stand up!
james gordon meek, new york daily news, on c-span’s washington journal just now… prompted by a caller (and reader of fdl)… called fdl in particular and bloggers in general the “stars of the show” and how fdl is the “must read” coverage.
selise @ 154
someone please save for Marcy’s scrapbook…
[yahoo?!] ;->
mui @ 130
A uaseful analysis of this phenomenon can be found in John Dean’s Conservatives without Conscience.
This is a must-read for us bleedin’-heard liberals. It is very important for us who are congenital ‘nice guys’ to understand that other people act and react differently than we do. It is vital that we understand what they are doing and can accurately predict what they will do.
emptywheel @ 117
Please report if Fitzgerald is wearing ashes on his forehead.
Sadly, Jeralyn is making that argument in her piece at TalkLeft. Actually, I really liked her piece but she thinks that although Fitz showed motive (something she said he hadn’t shown previously) she was somewhat disgusted that he didn’t go ahead and charge conspiracy.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/2/21/23551/6143
perris @ 80
Beth – I think you may be on to something. He had been dealing with Valerie Plame, not Valerie Wilson. It probably never occurred to him that there was a connection, until Wilson did his op ed. You can imagine his fury when he connected the dots.
There is another component to this. Apparently Scowcroft and Bush’s daddy had very high regard for Wilson and Scowcroft was something of a mentor. That really must have gotten under W’s skin (all these rivals for his dad’s esteem – Clinton, Wilson, etc.).
I think both Bush and Cheney were blind with rage about Wilson’s “slap-on-the face” op ed piece. These are not rational thinkers doing things for the greater good. These are criminals fueled by emotion and thirst for revenge.
Unless one has been trained as a court reporter, and has the requisite steno machine, I can’t imagine the skill demonstrated by the Firedoglake team throughout this trial. My hat’s off to you – and I am certainly going to contribute right now.
scarecrow:
your writing on this very fact-sy trial has been excellent. it gives depth of understanding and perspective that i have sorely needed.
thanks
HotFlash @ 158
HotFlash @ 158
I actually bought that book for someone else. Don’t know why I haven’t read it yet.
Yikes. Did not mean to create that ziggurat.
Cant wait till you guys get started on this one! Or maybe they dont rate because they havent done a photo op in Vanity Fair?
The Los Angeles Times boasts that it has identified three CIA pilots who are facing kidnapping charges in Germany over a 2003 counterterrorism operation there:
The names they used were all aliases, but The Times confirmed their real identities from government databases and visited their homes this month after a German court in January ordered the arrest of the three “ghost pilots” and 10 other alleged members of the CIA’s special renditions unit on charges of kidnapping and causing serious bodily harm to Khaled Masri, a German citizen of Lebanese descent, three years ago.
None of the pilots responded to repeated requests for comment left with family members and on their home telephones. The Times is not publishing their real names because they have been charged only under their aliases.