
Court has finished for the day. And what an experience it has been of watching the arguments and counter-arguments, the objections and arguments thereon. The case has gone to the jury, and it is now in their hands to decide the fate of I. Lewis Libby. And now?
We wait.
I have waited for my share of juries in my lifetime, both as defense counsel and as an assistant prosecutor. I've waited with my clients, with the families of my clients, and with the families of victims of crimes and the police officers who investigated them. Waiting for a jury is incredibly difficult, for everyone involved in a case. But it is especially tough on the family and friends on both sides who know the defendant and/or the victim, because for them -- whatever the verdict -- it is so personal.
How could it not be, touching on something that has crashed into their lives, whichever side of the trial line they may fall on -- and it can be very, very difficult to simply sit back and wait for the jury to make a decision.
Most of the time, the defendant waits either at home or at the offices of his/her attorneys. The prosecutors wait at their offices in the courthouse, sometimes along with the family of the victim (if you are dealing with something like a murder case) and almost always with the investigating officers who were involved in the case. You wait through lunch. You wait through dinner. You wait sleeplessly until morning, and then through breakfast. And you keep on waiting until your phone rings and someone at the judge's office tells you that the jury is back...and then you wait a little more to find out what the fate of your case will be.
Something that you should all know: when the jury does come back with a verdict, we will find out quite a bit in advance that they have reached one. The judge and his staff will notify the lawyers that a verdict has been reached, and they will be given time, along with the press and the public, to return to the courthouse -- usually an hour and sometimes two, depending on the court's habit and practice. So, just because we hear a verdict is reached, it may still be a while -- as in more than an hour -- before we learn what that verdict is.
Once everyone is back at the courthouse, Judge Walton will enter the courtroom and then he will be followed shortly thereafter by the members of the jury. The Judge will ask them on the record if they have reached a verdict, they will say yes, and they will then pass their written verdict form to the judge through a bailiff. The judge will read the verdict to himself, pass it back to the bailiff, and it will be returned to the jury's foreperson -- who will then read the jury's decision on each count individually, running in order as they were indicted initially by the grand jury.
The whole time, just about everyone in the courtroom will have been holding their breath. At least, that is what it always feels like anyway.
But to get to that point, there is an awful lot of waiting. Some juries take only a few hours to render a verdict. I have had to deal with one that deliberated for over a week. Some juries are quick, some are slow -- and you can never tell going into a case and a deliberation period what you are going to have to deal with on the waiting end of things.
So, I'm going to pass along a few of the ways that I've learned to keep myself busy in the meantime -- or shake out the nerves in the privacy of my own home -- while the jury is sifting through the evidence, the testimony and the law.
-- Find some things to read that have nothing whatsoever to do with anything serious. For me, it's always been a pile of gardening magazines or gardening/landscaping books, or books about decorating the house. Or pretty much any fiction -- especially some genre fiction that can transport me into a whole other way of thinking while I wait. Some of my favorite series, luckily, have new books out at the moment (or newish ones if you, like me, haven't gotten close to your "to read" pile in weeks), and I've been saving them up for this verdict week. If you haven't read any David Coe or any George R.R. Martin, it's a good time to introduce yourself to their work -- if you happen to be an SFF reader who likes great characterization and interesting plots in fantasy novels. Great stuff. (Full disclosure here: David Coe is a dear, dear friend of mine, who happens to be one of the most amazing writers that I know. And I did an interview of George Martin a few years ago for a British SFF magazine, and I adore his writing. But I wanted you guys to know up front that I have a personal connection with both of them -- as well as loving their writing styles. I would die happy if I could ever write even half as well as George does on a bad day.) If you have a favorite fiction book that you've been reading lately -- something that you think would make for some great escapist reading while you hit the refresh button waiting for a verdict, please share your suggestions in the comments.
-- Put on some great music -- soothing, new age, kick ass metal, whatever makes you happy at the moment. Dance around the room, and shake out the nerves and the accumulated funk. Of course, this comes with the caveat of "don't try this at the office," unless of course you work at a really open and fun place. Or your boss had a five martini lunch.
-- Pull out a favorite cookbook and make a whole dinner from scratch. Nourish yourself and your family, make something wonderful and have fun as you cook it for the folks that you love -- including for yourself. Go on, you deserve something wonderful and yummy, and made with your own two hands.
-- Or, there is always the old stand-by: catch up on all that work that's been piling up while you've been dealing with the trial. I used to always walk back into my office and find a huge pile in the in-box. Blech. It's not fun, but it is at least productive.
-- Watch some movies. The sillier, the better, in my opinion -- I tend to go for a goofy comedy in this sort of situation. Lots of Monty Python in my practice days. If you have some great fun movies -- or some really diverting tv series (Buffy comes to mind for me -- snark galore.) - please share your favorites in the comments.
How do you handle a long wait? Any suggestions of a good book, a great magazine article, a fun blog or website, some relaxing music, your favorite recipe? Anything at all -- do share in the comments.
(Is the jury back yet?)
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Kazuza
Thanks again to everyone for all your hard work feeding us hungry masses. I am holding my breath…
fitz!
Justice!!
I told my children there would be a lot of times in their lives when they would just have to wait for something important, so they might as well start practicing how to wait patiently.
Christy!
I like to listen to a little Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds.
No verdict yet? It’s been what, half an hour?[/SARCASM]
I’m not much into fantasy novels, Christy, but it looks like I have a couple authors to try.
Anyway, I have a whole bunch of things I should be doing. Guess I’ll check in later.
put on some Tom Waits.
Petty, “The Waiting is the hardest part” or the Stones. “I am Waiting ting ting. . .”
Christy! Can’t we just read you all day? Your words are so beautiful and calming!
Handling a long wait. Not so good at this. I try to remind myself that until the high-tech age, everybody had to wait all the time for everything. Mail took forever, even when trains came along. Travel took forever. When people came to visit, they frequently stayed for weeks, because travel was so difficult…and took forever. In our instantaneous-response universe, it’s hard to remember how slow the pace of human life was until only recently. So I try to remind myself of that fact. And then I can use overdue tasks and long-delayed pleasures (reading, especially, and pulling weeds) to distract myself. Reviving the social life is always good.
It’s official. I’m going to get a dog now so I can name it “Fitz.” I suppose an Irish setter would make sense, but I think a German shepard would be more fitting for the name.
The only dog command I’ll teach it is….
ATTACK!! ATTAAAACKK!! ATTAAAAACCCKKKK!!
For each count that receives a guilty verdict, I recommend one playing of the original Ewok party music from “Return of the Jedi.” (NOT the less fun score from the special edition.)
What is the minimum time it would take a jury to process the questionaire in this case, and do it diligently?
GEORGE RR MARTIN!!! (although I haven’t yet read Feast for Crows, yet).
FITZ!!
Tell us what the girls are going to do in DC while you wait…..DuPont is nice. The Spy Museum? Shop? Its a beautiful day for a walk on the mall. National Cathedral for some quite time? What’s the plan?
Jane, Christy, Marcy: You are blogstars.
Pectopah @ 13
It will take as long as it takes. Chill out. Have a beer.
punaise @ 7
For the next day or so, it’s gonna be…
“Hang on St. Christopher”!
Nice job.
If the weather is nice enough to go for a walk, check out the C&O Canal, which is just west of D.C. You can walk for miles along the old towpath.
heather @ 15
Swing by Walter Reed, I hear it’s all assholes and elbows over there!
Thank you FDL for bringing this trial to the everyday Joe/Joann out there. I’ve been following it from the beginning. And can hardly wait for the verdict.
You have provided an ivaluable service to our country. God bless all of you and your work!
I’m going to wait by making Ferns chicken recipe from Late Night. Sounds great.
punaise @ 7
for no one
EvilDrPuma @ 17
No, seriously. Is it as tedious as applying for a loan, or a straight forward process that takes just minutes or an hour. I realize they need time to discuss the case, but if they are all of the same mind, and get to work on the paper work, does that add a day or two to the process, or is it quick?
Thank you FDL for bringing this trial to the everyday Joe/Joann out there. I’ve been following it from the beginning. And can hardly wait for the verdict.
You have provided an invaluable service to our country. God bless all of you and your work!
bonkers @ 18
“What Are They Building in There?”
I do not wait well. Too high strung.
I think I’ll go wrap my head around a certain Kenworth sitting here with no marker lights.
Chasing down electrical problems will take your mind off of just about anything.
Nail biting, pacing, Hitting the “refresh” over and Over (I know, I know it’s wrong), looking in the fridge again (I know, I know nothing changed in the fridge since last I looked), walked the dog again (I know, I know He knows he was just walked) , I tried to nap again, (I know, I know i’m not really tired). Reread entire transcript and related dairies(I know, I know I almost have them memorized word for word) Well, I guess I’ll start all over again (I know, I know).
Wells’ behavior during the final FitzBlitz (head in hands, not looking up, not objecting to the “outing of NOC” line) sounds dangerously like incompetence. Does his behavior set up the possiblity of appeal on the grounds of incompetent defense (essentially legal malpractice)? Is it possible that Libby and the defense team are simply setting up the possibility of a new trial (after using this one to learn the nature of the government’s case)? If successful, does this not turn Wells (apparent) incompetence into potential genius? His behavior does not “smell right” to me.
Thank you, FDLers, for the most riveting live public event since the Senate Watergate hearings, imho.
-
Pectopah @ 24
I am serious. I don’t know. Nobody knows. It will take as long as it takes.
I couldn’t sleep last night, and wound up in the alternate Libby Trial universe known as “Just One Minute”. Those people are certifiably insane over there…
NP
Dexy’s Midnight Runners’ Projected Passion Review
punaise @ 26
It’s definately not a playhouse for the children…
EPU LINK Did Fitz have Ash Wednesday ashes?
Coe book: ordered.
Martin book: ordered.
Wheeler book: ordered. What, you say that can’t possibly count as escapist fantasy? Hm. My fingers slipped.
Well, I don’t know about all of you, but now that this pesky legal proceeding is in the hands of the jury, I can finally move on to the REAL legalities of the live-video-feed-on-every-news-site Anna Nicole story!! ;)
On second thought…the five martini lunch sounds like a fabulous plan!!
We’ve got practice with Waiting . . . and the jury will finish when the jury will finish.
Meanwhile, hug your kid and laugh a lot. It always works for me.
If Scoots is playing any Tom Waits, I would guess it’s…
“Innocent When You Dream.”
I also love George R.R. Martin, I can’t wait for his next one…
Neil Stephenson’s Cryptonomicom is a great read, too, and long enough to take you away for awhile.
“I don’t want to wait in vain” - Bob Marley
God, I hope they find this bastard guilty!
Neil @ 35
If Fitz was going to receive ashes, I would expect him to do it after his courtroom duties are done for the day, just to avoid disruption. But there is no obligation to receive ashes; it’s really a very minor tradition in the Catholic church, even if a popular one.
IO - No. That is not incompetence - not even close - not even the “i” in incompetence.
February 21, 1975: John N. Mitchell, H. R. Haldeman, and John Ehrlichman were sentenced to prison for obstruction of justice in the Watergate investigation.
I’m just sayin’.
Many, many thanks for all of your hard work on this case. I missed Watergate but I didn’t want to miss this. And you have been there every step of the way. Hats off to you for a very thorough and professional job. You’ve shown the media what true investigative journalism is and should be.
I expect to be out of touch by phone and email all of next week. When I expect the jury may come in. So I totally need to let go.
Christy’s remarks hit me - Valerie Plame Wilson is a victim but not THE victim of Scooters lies, at least to the FBI and GJ. Fitz may be a major victim - because his investigation of other crimes was hampered by him.
But the largest victim is all of us - we who who have been told our entire lives to trust our officials - that they may make mistakes but that republicans and democrats alike, our elected officials and their minions are there to protect us and make our government work for the people.
They are our servants and they betrayed us.
That is why I too am waiting anxiously to see that there is some justice left in the USA.
egregious @ 35
Make sure you start with the first book in the series, not the latest.
I’m going to look into Coe myself now.
I may actually be able to do work now.
i remember covering the courts and sharing time with prosecutors and defense lawyers alike while the jury was out. they all described the waiting as a time when their stomachs hung in some kind of nervous suspension — had they hit all the right notes? made all the right points? people’s lives were at stake.
right now, for me, time to get the car washed, do the shopping, get ready for the kids.
You can’t think about anything but the case. So work on your post-trial motions.
Carolyn in Baltimore @ 46
Exactly true, and I’m grateful to Fitz for saying as much in his closing statement.
So what’s up with Anna Nicole? I have missed it all!
Am working online today like every day, but during lunch later the heebie-jeebies of verdict watch will be soothed by reading a book of classic short stories. First one that caught my eye in the Table of Contents- “The Devil & Daniel Webster.” Oh, yeah…
I alternate between fiction and non-fiction. Right now, I am reading Animals in Translation, by Temple Grandin. My son is autistic, and Grandin is also autistic. She works with animals in her profession, and has come to believe that autistic people have similarities with animals which differ from non-autistic people. Fascinating stuff, not only from my perspective, but for anyone who loves animals. I would heartily recommend to anyone who has a pet, or works with animals.
My “bathroom book” is Pride, by William Wharton. It is one of the few of his books I never got to, and is a wonderful exploration of family. His writing is compact, if not entirely Hemingwayesqe, so it works well for the bathroom.
Finally, my favorite escapist book is
The Royal Road to Romance , by Richard Halliburton. Halliburton was a hugely popular writer in the ’20s and ’30s, who “vagabonded” around the world, and wrote about it. Royal Road was his first book, published in 1925. Royal Road gives a real sense of the optimism of America in the period between the end of WWI and the Depression. Halliburton climbs the Matterhorn, sneaks into Gibraltar, hides in the Taj Majal after closing, and so on. It’s just plain fun. Caveat: the attitudes toward other people than American whites is typical of the period.
For a snack, I melt semi-sweet Ghiradelli chocolate chips, stir in blueberries, and refrigerate, for a simple and awesome sweet dessert.
As for Sci Fi,
I’ve read all of this series. Very complicated and hard to follow if you try and read it fast.
http://www.tor.com/jordan/
Pectopah @ 24
It’s not a quetionaire, its called a jury charge….there are verdict forms attached for each count, guilt or not guilty
Wolverine @ 50
“You put your left foot in; you put your left foot out; you put your left foot in, and you shake it all about…”
Jury has to select a foreperson. If they pick someone skilled at moving and controlling a conversation, it can all roll along relatively quickly- if they don’t it can take forever.
Carolyn in Baltimore @ 46
You are probably better off being out of touch. My vast experience tells me there is very little justice. . .here or any goddamn where else.
Ever since my daughter was sick in the mid 90’s, it seems all I do is endless next-of-kin waiting (nowadays with my ailing revolving-door-patient parents). e.g., as I wrote about Sissy:
I read a lot of books.
_
As for fiction, I just finished Sinclair Lewis’s “It Can’t Happen Here” about a fascist takeover in the U.S. in 1935/36. It was WAY too close to current events for comfort, but that is why I read it.
Probably not a good recommendation for killing time waiting for the Libby jury to reach a verdict……
Carolyn in Baltimore @ 52
Short version: She died. Everybody else is bickering about who gets the money. You and I are supposed to give a damn.
punaise @ 7
niiiice. listening to him last nite. Punaise, you have great taste in tunes. :)
AnnieW @ 47
Thx. Christy’s Coe link takes you to the first in the series, but the Martin is the latest book which is #4.
Guess I need to go back and order #1. Ooooh, new books!
Just a splash of cold water. In my experience, trials are like “The Twilight Zone” - with 12 jurors striving for unanimity any number of things can happen…including hung-juries, acquittals, split decisions, whatever…
I just saw Jerilynn’s most recent piece on Huffington Post. She has a much more dour view of the proceedings. I don’t want to be a bring-down but folks may want to read her recent postings to get a different viewpoint as to what she thinks is the evidence and how the case was handled. Gird your loins, so to speak.
me expecting plea to be comming in soon…if a plea, must be made soon incase of a quick verdict
if no plea, I would tend to believe they have someone on the jury that will hang their decision
If Libby is foung guilty; Bubble Boy will issue a pardon. Libby has nothing to worry about. The show and pony ride is over. Damn shame that Bush and Cheney were not put under oath when they were debriefed by the prosecutor.
EvilDrPuma @ 42
I bet you are correct: he knew he would have time after jury instructions. That said, I think the good Catholic from Brooklyn and Regis High tends to his spirtual responsibilities with dedication. Marcy…signs o fashes to ashes, dust to dust?
for a diversion into something good, something real, and something quick, i would commend to all “about alice,” calvin trillin’s 78-page homage to his wife, who died (of cancer) on 9/11/01.
dude made me laugh and cry out loud, sometimes at the same time.
rwcole @ 58
Good point. We can’t control for variables like that, though…so it does little good to pretend there’s anything to this except the wait.
Guys, we will know when the verdict comes soon enough. I assumes the blogs will be able to send info out first, then the news wires, then the email alerts, etc.
Then, we can all watch as the jury goes through each count and renders its decision.
My only problem is I dont know how to program my TiVO over the Internet yet for the verdict…
I like to go back to the office and settle some really minor case. Reminds me that whatever the outcome downtown, life goes on.
I call it for the prosecution on some but not all counts.
The trial proceedings were Monday through Thursday.
Will the jury deliberations be Monday through Friday? Or will they get a three-day weekend as during the trial itself?
What Jane, Marcy and Christy can do while waiting:
Go to Mt. Vernon and apologize to the spirits of George and Martha for Bush’s sacriligeous speech last week.
Shopping in Georgetown is just okay. I’d visit some of the museums on the mall. I’d suggest the Holocaust Museum, if you haven’t seen it, but it’s probably too intense for the current circumstances.
EvilDrPuma @ 62
also her body is decaying while the wacko judge in Florida auditions for a TV show….
Not one for book clubs or anything, but I must say:
marcy Wheeler’s Anatomy of Deceit is astoundingly well written, informative, well anotated, clear, to the point and builds an strong case of abuse of power by the Executive branch.
In light of what is freely available in the public domain, I can only imagine what Fitz’ office has in its files.
I like to watch 12 Angry Men, and hope there are alot jurors in that room with the same sense of justice that Henry Fonda’s character had.
if libby is issued a pardon fitz will go public with why he thinks a pardon is not appropriate
the whurlizster is blitzing for a pardon and we have to be indignant
mrJJ @ 67
If Bubble Boy issues a pardon, then Libby can be compelled to testify in other hearings and trials. He’s more of a threat to the Bush regime pardoned than imprisoned.
And Shrub certainly won’t pardon him to reward his loyalty. Loyalty is a one-way street.
Carolyn in Baltimore @ 46
Fitz did get some high profile crooks in Illinois during this investigation. He took a “money for driver’s license” scheme all the way up to the governor’s doorstep.
Fitz knows law.
bonkers @ 77
in 12 angry men one of the jurors presented evidence that wasn’t admitted through trial (knife)
It is clear that Libby is guilty as hell and I am confident that the jury will find him guilty on all counts. President Bush will pardon him in the last few minutes of his presidency. Libby’s job is to raise the necessary cash from his Conservative friends and stay out of jail during his appeal. My guess he will do that and will be pardoned before he spends one day in jail. All that is OK because we now know that the VP was neck deep in all this and that we went to war because the chicken hawk NeoCons wanted it. Did any of their family serve?
ok, back to work…hopefully by the time I get back the plea will be made and on every news station across my world of fanstasy
Bustednuckles @ 55
I started this series, and finally ran out of steam. I get tired of authors who refuse to abandon their painstakingly constructed worlds and move on. It’s one of the reasons I love Gene Wolfe; he’s never taken a series beyond four books. Contrast that with Jordan, now up to twelve volumes for the Wheel of Time series, or Ann McCaffrey with twelve volumes for the Dragonrider series.
Love the Martin Ice & Fire series and bought the audiobooks as an incentive to get my Martin fix during long walks. He’s helped me shed some pounds. :)
On Christy’s recommend, will try Coe.
And lovers of history, high adventure, and great writing should try Dorothy Dunnett’s two superb series, The Lymond Chronicles and The House of Niccolo. I reread both of them every couple of years. Yeah, they’re that good.
Interested Observer @ 29
A jury trial is hard on an attorney, not just emotionally, but physically. I used to go into the gym a few weeks before one would start - I found that it helped a lot. Maybe, after Wells was finished, he just crashed (a bit prematurely, but still).
More likely though, I think he was trying to send a subliminal message to the jury of the massive injustice that looms for his client should the jury not do their job correctly (from his perspective). Kind of like - “even the thought that you may be giving credence to Fitz’s argument is simply too much for me to bear”.
‘Course, he could also have been thinking - “boy, did I screw *that* up”.
Nah.
Christy - what’s next w/ Plame house?
I asked this in the last thread, and if it was replied to and I missed it my apologies:
Will all our intrepid FDL reporters be waiting in the Plamehouse for the verdict? Just one or two? Christy, Jane, or Marcy? Combo thereof? :o)
perris @ 78
The reasons why a pardon doesn’t necessarily help the bastards have been rehashed here often enough that I get a little bored when somebody new comes out with the standard “if he’s convicted, Bush pardons him and we lose everything” line. Glad to see you add something new to the process…the Fitz Pardon Rebuttal isn’t something I’d thought about.
Pectopah @ 24
They’ll be done when they are done and not before.
The second jury trial I ever did was a simple left-hand turn car accident. I had the lady turning left and getting broadsided by the oncoming speeding motorhead (a mechanic at a car dealership, testing out a new car). It wasn’t even over the injuries - that had been concluded a long time prior. Rather, it was over the damage to the then-new car - my client’s coverage (on her grey-primered ‘71 Impala) wasn’t big enough to cover that accordion-totaled ‘83 Dodge, so they were coming after her personally.
The trial lasted from about 10 am until shortly after noon.
The jury (6 jurors) was out for the next two and one-half days. Sitting in the courtroom, you could hear them, behind two heavy, closed doors, arguing their brains out (though we couldn’t make out what they were saying, just screaming volume and intensity). At lunch in the courthouse cafeteria, four of them would be sitting at one table, and two at another. Both sides would be glaring at the other.
Ultimately, Friday, after a last government-paid lunch, they came back with what was clearly a “compromise” 5-1 verdict that my lady was 51% at fault (5/6 is OK in civil cases in my state). Which we counted as a victory; it got me lunch or something besides a pat on the back from the senior partner. Anything less than 100% liablity for the lady turning left was counted as a victory. Moreover, I got to bill all the time I sat in the courthouse waiting, drinking coffee, reading newspapers, reorganizing my files, and shooting the bull about baseball, politics, you name it, with all the lawyers I met, and generally killing time. I for one have never been able to drive my attention to another case while waiting on a jury.
Another time, I was third-chair on a 2 month plaintiff’s PI case. The jury was out for eight and one half days on that one. But that’s a case worthy of a book in itself.
Also, will the “e-mail” thingy on FDL cut me an e-mail with a post when the verdict comes in? We need an e-mail tree…
Shooter: unindicted co-conspirator
W: uninspired coked deciderer
BobbyG @
60
Thanks for that, I’m in a similar fix as we speak.
I’d go read Froomkin…. but he’s not up yet. Froomkin, where are you?
Citizenspook applauds Firedoglake and takes a big swing at Jeralyn Merrit accusing her of being a mole for the Bush cabal.
He also discusses Fitz use of the phrase “Time of War” from the live blogging of his closing argument. CS thinks Fitz might go for the death penalty in future prosectuions of Bush cabal.
http://citizenspook.blogspot.com
bonkers @
34
He never has visitors, but he gets a lot of mail.
We actually had a dog named ‘Fitz’. She was named after F Scott Fitzgerald, tho, and was a couch lovin’ Basset Hound. Sad eyes. Stubborn, alpha dog.
Fitz, yeah, good name for a dog.
Go team FDL. Go team Fitz. Do I have time for a shower before the verdict comes in?
OT
Big Lie Alert!
The Gray Lady is treating us to another installment of that long-running Big Lie blaming a single gunman for the assassination of John F. Kennedy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02.....ref=slogin
You see, the bullet holes in the back of JFK’s shirt and jacket are 3 inches below the wound location required by the Single Bullet Theory, which is the foundation of the Lone Assassin Scenario.
According to Posner, new footage shows JFK’s jacket to be “bunched up.”
This is a non sequitur:
1) The Single Bullet Theory requires JFK’s shirt and jacket to have “bunched up” 3 inches each in tandem.
2) Footage taken 90 seconds before the killing shows fabric folds in the top of the jacket.
3) Therefore, JFK’s clothing was elevated 3 inches at the time of the shooting.
If you enlarge the following, note the white
band at the base of JFK’s neck (he’s the figure in the car right under the “Stemmons” sign.)
http://www.geocities.com/quane....._Large.jpg
Is it even remotely possible for JFK’s jacket collar to ride in a normal position at the base of his neck if there were 6 inches of “bunched up” clothing fabric in the same location at the base of his neck?
Can disparate, solid objects occupy the same physical space at the same time?
No, that’s why we have car wrecks.
The NY Times has always pimped this Big Lie — the Mother of All Big Lies.
Nora Ephron is right — we need to get this Kennedy thing straight.
PunchPrincess @ 96
At least one. In fact, we insist.
why are my comments not showing up
The Pardon issue is a part of the game here.
One way of measuring the success of this trial is whether it forces Bush to pardon early.
Best case scenario is:
Libby convicted
Fitz announces conspiracy indictment
Libby indicates he’s ready to roll
Bush pardons to save his own ass and takes the heat for it.
Something good to read and get you mind off the trial?
Get yourself “Outlander”, by Diana Gabaldon. And then get yourself the rest of the Outlander series - you won’t regret it and the story will take you away.
I’ll tell you what;
if fitz gets some guilty verdicts I am hoping he has a speech prepared as to the prospect of a pardon and why it will devastate national security
I would love to see him go on the offensive before then whurlitzer winds up it’s mighty whurlitzer thingy
litigatormom @ 74
I agree–too too intense. However on a recent trip I was struck by how quickly (a matter of weeks) Hitler came to power, and then consolodated power. It reminded me of how precious our democracy is and how it seems Cheney/Bush flirted with aspects of facism in the days and months following 9/11.
Citizenspoo..k has given FDL respect for the liveblogging but he thinks Jeralyn is a Bush mole
and he was right about Fitz saying “time of war” under espionage act, Fitz signalled in closing “time of war”
my comments with the Citizenspoo..k links are being removed
why?
He’s hiding something from
The rest of us…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5t603n7j04
I hope Libby is shaving his head and buying adult diapers for an OJ/Jennifer Wilbanks style getaway.
-GSD
EvilDrPuma @ 99
we double insist…new socks too if you don’t mind
AnnieW @
40
ANything by Stephenson is first-rate (imho). Good idea (wanders towards bookshelf stuffed with NS boox…) :) is the jury back yet?!?!?!???
Unicorn Variations.
Interested Observer @ 29
If you’d watched last night’s PoliticsTV with Redd, Jane and Marcy, you’d have picked up that Wells’ crying jag is a well-worn part of his schtick. Apparently reporters in the courthouse were voting on whether his performance was better or worse than his in other trials, and they all took the position “worse”.
As to any alleged malpractice on his part, the easiest defense (I’ve represented people on both sides of legal malpractice cases) to such a charge is “he was patently guilty and I did the best I or anyone could”. In other words, Wells will turn on his client in a heartbeat if sued. Also remember that if Scooter were to sue Wells, the ethics rules provide that Wells is allowed (through an exception to the attorney-client privilege) to reveal privileged information given to him by Scooter (or on Scooter’s behalf) in order to allow him to defend himself. Scooter won’t go there.
As to “incompetent counsel” as an appeal ground, that won’t fly either. All those death row guys in Texas with sleeping lawyers try that ground, and they go nowhere with it. Wells wasn’t sleeping, by any means.
((((((raven))))))
perris @ 102
I’m not sure it would be such a great idea for Fitz to go pre-emptive over pardons. If he has it in mind to pursue further charges in the Plame business (and I assume that he does), that could make him look too much like he’s confusing his legal duties with political activism. A pardon rebuttal at least lets him cast his indignation as a reaction to high-level obstruction of justice.
What does everyone think the Bush administration will put out as a ‘distracting’ news story once the Libby conviction hits? Will we have thwarted another terrorist cell? Dedicated a war memorial? Captured x number of insurgents?
Fairfax @ 101
Ooooh second that totally.
GSD @ 106
Ya mean he already gots the white SUV? Cool! :)
Jwoods @ 113
autopsy cnfirms anna nichole had a boob job
yea, that’s the ticket
I know one thing not to read - Libby Trial: Missing the Forest From the Trees by Jeralyn Merritt. There’s nothing wrong with her giving her opinion. It’s just a downer. I’d also stay clear of O.J. books…
I’d suggest reading Inherit the Wind or To Kill a Mockingbird - novels where Truth, Justice, and the American Way prevailed. Or maybe even All the President’s Men…
I like to play guessing games. My guess is that the jury will deliver a verdict tomorrow, if not then by Friday. I just don’t see them needing or wanting another weekend doing this.
Incidentally, a huge round of applause to all at FDL who covered this court’s proceedings so thoroughly and delightfully. Bravo!
aravir @
54
Have you read Oliver Sacks’ An Anthropologist on Mars The first essay in the book carries that title, and is about Grandin. There’s also IIRC a couple more autism stories, including one about an all-autistic family, father, mother, two kids.
But the essay on Grandin is worth the price of admission.
Jwoods @ 113
“Hey, Rocky, watch me gun down Al Qaeda’s number two man!”
“But that trick never works!”
“This time for sure!”
You folks probably know this, please tell me!
While the jury deliberation period goes on do they live in an isolated place, like in a hotel without tvs; what about telephones? Do they share rooms? Who decides when and where and how long they ah deliberate? I understand the content but not the form of this process. Can someone tell me/us more about how it works please?
Australia’s John “Ratty” Howard will now have to do some verbal jujitsu in order to avoid calling Tony Blair and the UK military a bunch of cut and run cowards.
-GSD
Triad, if you have more than 3 links it’s probably sitting in moderation, not removed per se. A human has to look at it before posting.
Carolyn (52) –
Even shorter ANS: Dead. Still Dead.
My 13-year-old daughter and I are counting the “Missing White Woman” variants every day. We call ANS variant MWW#407, and Britney variant MWW#408.
Climbers on Mount Hood with dog? MWW#409.
What variant you got today?
Jwoods @ 113
Attacked Iran? (Gawd forbid)
egregious @ 123
I had three links with my pancakes this morning and my posts are showing up just dandy
Jwoods @ 113
Anna Nicole rises from the dead on Easter. The new messiah with have a large silicone rack.
-GSD
Well, I have the day off and I’m working on my 1959 Fender Super Amp clone as soon as some people show up to take a futon we’re giving away.
In case there’s any guitarists reading, here’s a pic of a real ‘59 Super.
I find getting into measuring resistors and stuffing the circuit board is a great escape from corporate bullshit and the stress of waiting out anything.
So if you need something to quell the stress of waiting for he jury, BUILD A GUITAR AMPLIFIER! =:-O
Gawd, I hate to say this, but I’m expecting a hung jury. Say it ain’t so, Christy…
Jane, Christy, Marcy, you superb people have made history, and I’m damn proud of ya whatever verdict (or mistrial) comes forth.
Now, I’m not a praying man (being an atheist) but if I was I’d be on my knees in sackcloth and ashes beseeching for conviction.
Jwoods @ 114
The WaPo took care of that last night. They released a story on Sandy Bergers illegal activites, which, no one even nibbled on except for maybe Faux news!
GSD @ 122
What makes you think he’ll even try to avoid it? Curly Howard hasn’t had any qualms about putting another country’s political foot in his mouth to date.
GSD @ 106
OMG 707
I have a white SUV he can use….
Thanks for the live blog. Have enjoyed the coverage.
Armitage, Rove and the CIA did the damage to Plame in talking with Novak if there was any damage done to Plame at all. After the Novak story was out on the wire on July 11, any damage was already done to Plame.
I don’t think Scooter had criminal intent in what he did. I don’t think he was protecting the VP since the VP did nothing wrong. I don’t think that Scooter feared for his job.
This is a case of people remembering things differently. I will be surprised at a conviction although there may be a hung jury.
I play with my hair and flip through old Illinois Cemetary and Funeral Home Association (”often imitated, never duplicated”) newsletters. I order Thai takeout that others have nourishingly (or not) prepared.
I prefer complete silence, although I don’t necessarily mind the sounds that bald eagles make; there’s a laughing sound “yee-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka” that sounds somewhat like Curley from the Three Stooges, or there’s the deep snorting that is exactly the sound a grandfather makes when you touch his mustache, which bald eagles make when they feel threatened.
I wear a NASA diaper so that I am not caught in the bathroom when the verdict is announced.
The indictment is here:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/.....102005.pdf
This is a pdf document and the list of charges begins on page 11. It is a complicated document. On the obstruction charge in 2 parts, one of these has a sub sub section with 9 elements. Now some of the elements will be repeated in the other counts which should reduce some of the deliberation time. Still there are 5 charges against Scooter: 1 obstruction, 2 lying to the FBI, 2 lying to the Grand Jury. If the jury instructions track the indictment, if jurors wish to discuss each of the elements, and even if they are in broad agreement, I would think it would be reasonable to assume that the process could take 2 days to a week. That’s just my guess, and, of course, with the caveat that IANAL.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 128
guitar player, I have in my proud possession a gibson les paul, american made, signed and played by the one and only les paul himself
with pictures I might add…it’s a root bear zebra grain with mathced grain and it is truly one of the nicest les pauls you will ever lay your eyes apon
As an imigrant froma country with a decent legal and transparent voting system, I am simply hanging by my fingernails for this verdict.
This place really doesn’t feel like a democracy.
Christy:
Thanks as always for the great insights you, Jane and Marcy (et al) have been supplying us with.
I have not had time to work my way through the lengthy but always fascinating streams of comments and cross-talk to these posts. So there is a fair chance this is not new question, but please bear with me.
Can you help us non-legal sorts better understand the options open to jury when it comes to reviewing the myriads of information they have been exposed to? Do they have wide-open opportunity to revisit videos, full transcripts, and all exhibits? Walton’s caution about working from their memory has me thinking there must be some limits. But I think I recall instances in prior cases where juries requested various sorts of follow-up information even while sequestered.
For that matter, insights on any predictable patterns of jury actions in attempt to reach verdict would be of interest, but for obvious reasons that is probably more closely held information.
If you’re monitoring comments as conscientiously as you usually seem to you’re not following your own prescription! But good on you for that.
My suggestions would be Donna Leon series about Guido Brunetti a Venice (as in Italy) police detective. Outstanding.
Distracting news story of the morning:
Mt. Hood survivors. Featured for most of the first half hour of the Today Show. Not a mention of the closing arguments. UK withdrawals from Iraq got a very brief mention. David Gregory, my former fave until he ragged on bloggers over the weekend, noted that the WH is portraying this as a sign of success, although he did allow himself to express a bit of skepticism on this point.
Mickey @ 117
see also comment 80, AtPM is so quaint and civilized compared to this.
But I am reading it again with “new eyes” and seeing a few things alittle differently: the Wallace assassination attempt, Muskie = McCain, etc.
Triad @ 95
I don’t think Jeralyn is a mole - but find that she is often illogical in her conclusions. How can she believe that there was a conspiracy to out Valerie Plame, which Libby was a part of, and still have reasonable doubt that Libby lied to the FBI and grand jury? Libby clearly lied to cover-up the conspiracy.
S.O.S. in MA @
109
_Cryptonomicon_ was great! But I bought the “Baroque Cycle,” and can’t get past the London fire. I love that time period, Stephenson goes a way in humanizing some late 17th century historical figures, but?
trying to close bold for previous post
Pat_AlexVA @ 132
Hermph. C my #115, slowpoke! :)
I’d say that Cheney’s visit to Japan might have brought some headlines, but seems like the reception was less than hospitable.
If you are looking for mindless humor while you await the verdict, look no further than the Jackass films or the Andy Milonakis Show.
I admit that I enjoy them both. There does appear to be a gender divide in appreciation of these programs…
Can someone answer a question here? I’ve been following the trial though not as closely as I would like.
After waiting awhile to see what Document 402 was, I found it on the USDOJ website last night. It’s a newspaper cut out with the SAME Cheney questions as the first newspaper cut out.
What does this mean? Are these both in Cheney’s handwriting? Was this brought up in the trial?
EvilDrPuma @ 120
“Hey, Rocky, watch me pull al Qaeda outta my Iranian hat!”
“Gee Dubya, Bullwinkle…”
“Nothing up muh sleeve…”
“RAAAWWR!!”
Agh, if this had only worked on Iraq…
Quzi @ 25
I so agree!!!
My husband will be so glad for this to be over. Since I’m laid off I send off resumes during the wait times and then scurry back to FDL to see if I’ve missed anything. Hubby comes home every day to see if I’ve found THE job jet. Instead he finds me glued to the monitor and half the housework done and anything cooked made in a crockpot so I don’t have to tend it all day (I think he’s getting sick of the same old recipes :>D ). I’ve become addicted and don’t know how I’ll get by without this enthralling saga. It’s sure better than soaps and a helluva lot more important. Now I’ll be watching to see Cheney put thru the mill (hope, hope, hope). Once again, bless you.
Cyn2 @ 139
If we’re going for mysteries, let me throw in my vote for Ellis Peters’ Cadfael books: oldies now, but very goodies.
S.O.S. in MA @ 143
We’re talking about DC here, not LA - you’ve got to have a full motorcade or no one will notice.
Jwoods @ 114
Ha! Perhaps they’ll stop another plot against the “Liberty Tower” (excuse me, “Library Tower”) in Los Angeles!
punaise @ 105
I looked for the Ken Nordine and Tom Waits version of “a thousand bing bangs” and couldn’t find it, but it is great.
If they’re not eating lunch, the jurors, at this very moment, are discussing Scooter’s guilt.
Of course, they could be discussing his innocence, also. But I prefer the former, since I’m a “glass half full” kinda guy. ;-)
While we’re waiting, I’ll be catching up with the things and people I’ve ignored for the past six weeks.
-S
Sparkles the Iguana @
135
Have you looked at Weird and Haunted Illinois
Weird Illinois
Terry Goodkind’s Sword of Truth is another excellent fantasy series. Highly recommend it.
Unfortunately, there’s no way I can relax right now. Luckily though, I’ve got a ton of house work to do. No clue how it piled up. ;)
Here’s to waiting.
perris @ 137
That’s VERY cool. I’m a Telecaster and Strat guy myself, but a couple good buddies of mine are Paul-pickers. I’ve got a Japanese-made ‘52 reissue Telecaster with some hand-wound pickups that sound *just* like a ‘50 Nocaster. Fender Japan is making great, great stuff these days. Custom Shop quality in terms of necks and bodies, and far truer to the vintage stuff than any American made Fenders.
My Strat, also Fender Japan is signed by Lee Roy Parnell and Sonny Landreth. the Stratocaster is my slide guitar.
re-remembering HTML coding by hand
Rayne @ 149
“Hey, Rocky, watch me pull al Qaeda outta my Iranian hat!”
“Gee Dubya, Bullwinkle…”
“Nothing up muh sleeve…”
“RAAAWWR!!”
Agh, if this had only worked on Iraq…
I think that will be it…another number two man al qaeda caught
or possibly catching someoen trying to flood all of manhatten with a can of hairspray
egregious @ 113
LOVE that series, too. Have you read Louise McMaster Bujold’s Vorkosigan series? Her books have amazing characterization, great plots, but are also deeply psychological as well.
perris @ 81
Hey, I wonder why the defense didn’t raise this issue. If Scooter was out backstabbing people, where was the knife?
I can see Wells pulling a Cochran:
If there is no knife,
You must give me back his life.
Sorry, starting to ramble here.
Hugh @ 136
Ahhh, finally someone answers my question. How long will the paper work take? That gives us our best educated guess on the minimum deliberation time. Thanks Hugh. Perhaps a NOT IANAL could opine.
I know that egregious, Peterr and RGB worked hard over the course of the trial as mods. Let’s have a big hand for them. Were there other unsung, undercover - whether official or NOC - folks who helped Jane, Christy, Marcy, Jeralyn, Swopa, Pach and everybody else, who we don’t know about, but should thank? I’m sorry, if I left somebody out I already knew about. Oh, yeah - Siun & TRex!
I am looking at the WaPo online page and there is not a SINGLE MENTION of this case. WTF? I’m sure it’s inside, somewhere, but WTF? Watched CNN, msnbc, Fox last night and not a SINGLE MENTION of this case. Even Colbert was a repeat. SCREAM.
I am sure hoping the jury comes back all wearing GUILTY T-shirts……
S.O.S. in MA @ 144
Ok, so I’m no Dick Cheney and a little slow on the trigger.
Few things ease tension better for me than a energetic hike in the hills near my house while listening to an amusing audiobook on my iPod. Top of the heap is anything by P.G. Wodehouse, although Michael Palin’s travelogues contend. And out in the woods, only a squirrel or two look askance at my occasional outbursts of laughter. I haven’t yet had the pleasure of meeting a mountain lion during my jaunts — perhaps they’re more into action genres…
Cyn2 @ 140
This is now a made for TV series in Germany. Too, bad you can’t get it here.
EllenBlack @ 166
Or maybe, “Hey, Scooter, Pick Up That Soap?”
perris @ 136
Oooo, time to drag out the old 1962 Fender Jazzmaster from the closet and hook it up to the Fender Bandmaster amp and actually play something after years of neglect.
New Thread upstairs.
Book: “The Mysterious Flame of Queen Loana”, by Umberto Eco
DVD: The “Firefly” TV Series
Food: Home Baked Bread
I give up trying to imagine the situation the jury is in. Going to a movie……..A plus
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 159
Ed*ard Teller @ 142
I shoulda mentioned “Baroque Cycle” as an exception to my love for Stephenson. I truly tried to get into the first of ‘em, can’t remember when I gave up. Hope he isn’t pulling another Steven King. But then I remember I couldn’t grok the wonders of “Master and Commander” (the book) so maybe it’s just me. (and you) :)
the anti-thesis @
161
Man, I use tools. BBedit and Dreamweaver. I can hand-code but I’d be bored in two minutes.
Clive Cussler is one of my all time fav’s. He is fascinating in his own life also, he is an underwater adventurer. He is the one who found the Confederate submersible Hunley. He also collects very rare antique cars.
His Dirk Pitt series with NUMA remains high on my re-read list.
Alas, his latest series seems to have missed it’s mark a bit. He has hired another writer to continue the series and I find it not nearly as imaginative as the earlier works.
One of his books was made into the movie Sahara.
The link is a list of his books.
http://www.cusslermen.com/books.htm
EllenBlack @ 166
HA love it
highly unlikely a decent tv show like that will make it here in the next 25 years. Try finding anything that portrays anything in an authentic mannerthat is anti-US
Not a big SFF fan but two writers I adore
Tanith Lee: Silver Metal Lover (classic)
Angela Carter: I believe it was Robbins that wrote a review of one of her books stating:
“Angela Carter is my favorite illegal drug”
“Infernal Desire Machine of Dr. Hoffman” is my fave, my wife prefers her feminist retelling of fairy tales “The Bloody Chamber”
It’s amazing to me that Hollywood has never made a movie from and AC book.
HELLO JANE!!!!
sofistic @ 173
Woah! NICE! Is it a Tweed Bandmaster or a Blackface? I’m really partial to Tweed Fenders, fixed or cathode biased.
the anti-thesis @ 161
Still do my HTML coding by hand…
what is withat fucking lawyer crying in his closing statements. Ar Americans so fucking stupid that they will actually take that into consideration
OH MI GOD!!!
Raven @20:
May you take a tour of Iraq and Walter Reed.
Your statement is at best offensive and quite uncouth.
They have given their lives getting the shaft from our Govt without the right equipment, no less war strategem THEN get the utlimate and final shaft by getting little to no disability .. your incredibly horrific ‘isn’t it funny’ words are an indicator or
your soul and it certainly is not pretty.
what, we’re not allowing Haliburton to steal enough from the American taxpayer? maybe the folks who are stuck at Walter Reed and yet again mistreated by the Govt should go work there to help line the wallets of Dr Evil and Co?
somebody reassure me pleeeeeese
CatelynK @ 85
Seconded wrt Dorothy Dunnett’s two series! Start with the Lymond Chronicles (6 books). Really picks up steam by book 3.
Ducktape @ 182
In Notepad, I presume. Have you thought about seeking help?
Sparkles the Iguana @ 165
Doesn’t surprise me at all. I’m sure the blog authors might know better, but it seems to me that this case might be getting slighted for several reasons:
1. Informal gag order by Bush admin
2. It’s complex and the importance is somewhat obscure
3. Other ’shiny objects’ in the news could overshadow it (A. Smith, Brittney, etc.).
If (when) Scooter is convicted, it will be big news. The only question is what “news” is Rove/Cheney sitting on that they will spring out when the conviction is announced? I can’t wait to see what the “Snow Job” will be…
CatelynK @ 85
Catelyn, you have excellent taste. Both Dorothy Dunnett and George RR Martin are at the top of my list. And I note that Stephenson gave Dorothy a plug in his forword to his Baroque series, so he feels the same way, I would bet. Have to say that Pawn In Frankincense is one of only two books that have made me cry.
aussie @ 186
aussie, go read this for how that tactic went over.
the anti-thesis @
181
Eleven jurors’ shirts will also have little hearts on them, while the shirt on the twelfth juror will have a hammer and silver spike on it…
Jwoods @ 114
How about a full-scale missile attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities? Busting a bunch of wannabe Bin Ladens in some hideout somewhere in the suburbs of London just won’t be enough this time around.
Plus, once the sand is removed from Fitz’ eyes, a Libby conviction becomes the key to a Cheney indictment, and Cheney’s always been the one with his finger on all the real power buttons.
So, with a heavy heart and a great deal of parental trepidation towards a potential draft, I can only surmise that the Cheney/Bush administration intends to go out with a bang, especially if they feel threatened by their own legal system.
These days, I spend a lot of time hoping I’m wrong.
And as for Cheney moving somewhere “safe”, let us not forget the Hague. He might not be able to find a place anywhere on earth where there isn’t someone who wants to see him facing justice in a court of law.
I know there’s a new thread, but I’m mentally not ready to think about something else yet.
Ed*ard Teller @ 163
I appreciate the thanks, but I’m not a mod, and don’t even play one on TV. I just help out with a post every so often to take up the load when the trial is not in session. I wrote up what has come to be called “Peterr’s rules” as a welcome to newcomers, and also as a “thank you” to the folks who work so hard to keep this place going.
Like RBG.
RBG has been tireless in his work. Or maybe I should say “very tired,” as I can’t tell when he’s ever been asleep in the last couple of weeks.
So, my prediction is for guilty. Scooter clearly was not forthcoming in the GJ, and with the FBI. The jury knows this. The key is that he can rectify this, now, by fessing up and giving Fitz DC. That is why Fitz gave them the “cloud over the vice presidency” image.
This is not like a murder case. Scoots can’t bring someone back to life, so the jury does not have that pressure to get the final answer correct. In this case the jury knows Scooter holds the keys, and they will let him decide whether or not he wants to use them.
Deep into EPU territory, but…
Thanks to everyone who had any part in this incredible ride.
I suspect you will indeed be nicknamed, “The Goddesses” now, Jane, Christy, Marcy.
I’m going to spend some time today hunting down the C-Span interview from this morning with that gal who reportedly gave all sorts’a kudos to FDL posts. Yes, visitors, that’s why we keep coming to the Lake. It’s an absolutely fantastic place.
Jane, Christy, Marcy and mods. I hope you all can take some much overdue time to pamper yourselves for a change. You certainly provided a glorious treat for all of us, and the gifts keep coming.
The lasting record FDL has built up since its inception is absolutely extraordinary. To the news outlets that not only strive for a lesser standard of excellence, accuracy, and even honesty, and then think it wise to erect “firewalls” to protect “their” closely-guarded news and comment…well… where to begin telling them how wrong-headed they are…?!
Can blogs be nominated for Pulitzer’s? Nobel?
…nothin’, just curious ;->
FDLers in DC could go to the National Archives. When I went there last summer it gave me chills to read THE Constitution and THE Declaration of Independence. Also, the Spy Museum was fun. And lunch at Dean & DeLucca’s and dinner at Filomena’s were delish. Tick, tick, tick. Jury, please hurry (but be sure to get it right).
Triad @
105
I see three comments from you, they’re getting through fine. Link works, too. What browser are you using? WordPress is Foxfire friendly but sometimes gags on IE, I hear.
It is at times like this that I am glad I am a bookworm by nature, it is always a useful way to pass the time when there is nothing else to do but wait and why I never go anywhere without at least one book with me. For me, especially when it is over something I really need distracting from there is no better author than David Weber, especially the Honor Harrington series. Which is what I happen to be rereading currently.
One comment re Jordan’s Wheel of Time…by book five I swore that I would not touch that series again until he either died or officially declared that series concluded, it was simply too much of a chore to wait so long between books that by the time the next installment came out I had to reread the prior books before I could really appreciate the contents of the newest one. Which given the density of that particular series just got to be too annoying for me.
I also agree that the LM Bujold Vorkosigan series is a very good read, but then good military SF is a particular favourite subgenre of mine.
Thanks very much, Team FDL!
Thanks for picking up, and running with the ball dropped by the corporate press.
You’ve become the backbone of a reviving democracy.
Am off today, so I’ll await the verdict by fixing the family a dinner of Hungarian Chicken Paprikash, for their return this evening.
Thanks ever so much, again.
Peterr @
197
Sorry, I thought you did a couple of stints as mod too. Maybe confused ’cause you both live in the Seattle area. And your great rules thing. Anyway, a list of people who helped in little-known and unknown ways might be appropriate. Only way I tried to help was to pretty much stay out of the way…
[Mod Note; but then they wouldn’t be Lurking Mods. :)]
What? Peterr and RBG are Pacific Northwesteners?
Too cool!
When I tried cases and had to wait for jury verdicts (in the military) I found that working out helped. A long run or swim, coupled with a weight workout helps clear the mind and get rid of nervous energy.
Being a defense counsel and waiting for the verdict to be read is a truly unique and stressful experience. You might not be the one on the dock, but you feel like it.
Bustednuckles @ 202
Sorry to disappoint on this one, too, but I’m not in Seattle. I’m in the East Bay of San Francisco - a neighbor to punaise and TeddySF, among others.
Triad @ 105
Triad, I see (at least) your comments at #95 (with link), #100 & #105. You may need to refresh or something, because your comments are there.
Peterr @ 205
Thats what I thought , to tell you the truth. Oh well, at least your on the left coast!
David Corn has a great write-up of yesterday’s closing arguments.
Just read the wapo article about the trial…
I think they made a boo boo.
emphasis mine.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00963.html
Dear Jane, Christy, & Marcy,
I’ve been gone for a few days and realized how much I depend on FDL for news, community, and hope.
Thank you so much for all you’ve done, but especially for the midterms and the Libby trial. You’re all just awesome, a force to be reckoned with.
Just dropped a franklin in the tip jar. Have some champagne on me, regardless of the verdict.
Thanks again,
Susan
Until Fitz, I didn’t believe there was one honest Republican left in the world. Now I believe in one, and only one honest Republican. And it isn’t Senator Hagel.
What say we run Fitz as Republican and Webb as Democratic nominees for President? Either way, we end up with an honest President.
Tick tock tick tock.
To do: Clean up the yard a little, go to goodwill, clean litterbox. Vacuum.
Sigh.
Interestedobserver@29
Look for Wells to check into rehab as soon as the Jury returns a guilty verdict. That should cement “incompetant defense”
FYI,
GRRM’s Fire & Ice is coming to HBO
http://www.variety.com/article.....4&cs=1
Since deliberations started I have used the time(including yesterday) calling and e-mailing my Senator and e-mailing Pelosi, Reid and Blogs that have run stories about Walter Reed Hospital. Is everyone in this administration/DOD/Pentagon insane? I watched a 4 star General comment that he should have looked at these places. Where is Eisenhower, Bradley, Marshall and Zinni when you need them? I watched a 2 man crew, wearing dust masks, PATCHING mold infested drywall. They are wearing masks but the troops that live there don’t. Aren’t mold spores airborne? Everything about this situation is f**ked up. When does the insanity stop? Or am I insane believing this sh*t should be otherwise?
jayt @
86
If a lawyer looks like he’s crying, there’s a reason. If the other lawyer is cool and buttoned up and bullet-listed, that’s probably the reason.
Never, ever, ever, would I allow myself to look upset like that in front of a jury, civil or criminal. Or look like I wasn’t paying attention to my adversary.
Passionate is one thing. Rubbing your forehead and and covering your face and not looking up is another.
Juries don’t like rude. And you try to never let them see you sweat.
Perhaps those waiting in court could read “The Apprentice” by Lewis Libby (Amazon.com Sales Rank: #411,682 ) and underline the dirty parts.
Any close observer of the bush/CHENY regime knows that ultimately the whole thing had to come crashing down. Their governing paradigm of hyper-politicizing each and every aspect of the government they could lay their hands on is simply just not a viable way to operate. The only question has been how messy the eventual backlash would become. The coming political windstorm will seize upon this small tear that Libby’s trial represents. The coming weeks and months will see the wholesale unraveling of the bush/Cheny junta.
Personally I like violent weather. (broad smile)
litmom, did you see Marcy’s take?
No matter what the outcome, thanks to all of you for bringing us the day to day live blog. It was the most fascinating thing I have ever followed.
Thank you
BTW - it appears to be a beutiful day in DC today. 53 degrees.
It had been brutally cold until today, with an inch of frozen crud over the area. Rained last night, temperature climbed, partly cloudy.
I bet they’re enjoying the weather.
(addition, I am in DC area, but sequestered in my basement).
YES! Another George R.R. Martin fan. Great advice. Unfortunately, I was introduced to “A Game of Thrones” three days before my bar review course was about to start.
I made it through Game and the second book before the bar exam (and still passed NY and NJ despite the distraction). But the compulsion to read the books instead of my prep materials ultimately resulted in a great deal of extra stress while I was waiting for the results.
If you like fantasy, GRRM will distract you from the trial like nobody’s business. Still have yet to read Fevre Dreams, but I always have an eye open for it in the local used book stores.
Ahh, the waiting game sucks. Let’s play Hungry Hungry Hippos.
dunderhead @ 213
I don’t think Fitz has any formal political affiliations. True, he was appointed by a republican (Peter Fitzgerald, no relation), but I don’t think he can state his party support either way.
With that being said, I would definitely trust him in any public role.
Bong drive-by… I always find that a long wait requires a bit of partaking. Make the time more intersting, if nothing else.
‘ere!!
:-)
pat @193
Thanks
If the account is accurate I feel better!
I can’t do it! I can’t sit and wait.
I’m going to do some work and walk away from the whole thing until there is a verdict…
How about Martin Cruz Smith’s Wolves Eat Dogs? Now that would be a team — Arkady and Fitz!
I have burned way too much time with these live blogs. FDL like crack - Once you get the good shit, it’s hard to go back to MSM. Everything else seems so empty.
BTW keeping the anger and hostility levels to a max by listening to MINISTRY keeps me ready for the outcome. Gotta keep the angry heart burning at all times. If you fall of the bike, get back on. If you stay on the bike, speed up!
EvilDrPuma @152
Favorites of mine too. And if you like historical mysteries, definitely check out Barbara Hambly’s Benjamin January series (in order)–New Orleans, around 1830. Incredible.
Odd coincidence that Libby goes to the jury on the The New Yorker’s anniversary. Founder Harold Ross must be turning over in his grave. Browsing in the Rossosphere: His baby turns 82 today — along with cover guy Eustace Tilley. The New Yorker has given us gritty journalism (Seymour Hersh and Jane Mayer, most recently), as well as pretentious fluff. It has also spawned a host of related blogs. Here’s a look at a few, with topix ranging as far afield as haiku and chiasmus, with links.
Thanks to all of you for your outstanding work.
Surely they have picked a foreperson by now. That is the first order of business.
Yes. I’m cooking and gardening.
Since I live in the North San Fernando Valley, Los Angeles, CA, facing the West…I’ve got pumpkins voluntarily blooming in front of my porch! A far cry from my daughter’s freezing patio in DC.
I’m “in between gigs” and, being at home, am following the best soap in town on firedoglake.
And, you asked what other people are doing during the “WAIT”, …well, I’m checking with my Job Agency, cooking, a little cleaning, gardening AND checking for updates on the Libby Trial.
THANK YOU to Jeralynn, Christy, Marcy and of course, JANE for the virtual connection.
kudos, ladies!
***AND!, while waiting for the next JOB, I Also have the opportunity for some Community Action Work. I’m attending a neighborhood meeting with my mother tonight regarding an Emminent Domain Issue which is invading my childhood neighborhood. A “Re-Developement Project” wants to tear down a small, rustic, historic, horse-zoned community to build an “eco-village”. Meaning a strip-mall. Lots of research to do…will let you know about the meeting tonight.
Dunnett also wrote mysteries involving espionage (the titles are sometimes ‘Johnson and the [..] Bird’, where the kind of bird ties to the plot). I’d also recommend the one-off historical she did called ‘King Hereafter’.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 129
Ahhh, nothing like some creamy tweed tones to get ya through a stressful time ;P I think I’m gonna fire up my Allen Accomlice(Deluxe Reverb Clone) and grab my AV57RI Thin Skin Strat and play me some “Scooters in Prison Blues”
Deborah Moore @ 237
Which horse-zoned community is this? (I know of several in the valley, some in really unlikely places.)
Do you all suppose that, should Libby be convicted, the crazy right will make him into a “hero” (SCOFFFF!!!) ala crooks like Chuck Colson, G. Gorden Liddy and Ollie North?
Will FOX pick him up? Will he go “psycho radio?”
Lot of options for a talent like Libby.
Think of the access he’d have!!
What the …???? I came over here for nothing. I thought for sure the ladies would be liveblogging the jury deliberations ….
(Many kudos to Jane, Christy & Marcy - FDL is time zones ahead the the MSM - :)
Beresford @ 220
That, too, would be very hard to bear…
PJ Evans:
Stonehurst, near Shadow Hills. The meeting is at 7:00 pm at the Stonehurst Park…one of the sites they want to tear down to build condos…oh my God. People in LA reading this…please help.
Deb
Deborah @ 243:
Try bugging them on the zoning master plan. I bet it shows the area zoned for horse (or large) property, and recreational, and they should not be allowed to change that without major hearings. The commission, unfortunately, has a tendency to buy the arguments of developers, and will even allow them to use permits issued for the same property, years earlier, with a different owner, for a different project. (I’m out in Chatsworth, I’ve seen this one.)
There’s also the problem that far too many of the bureaucrats still don’t have a clue that anyone actually lives in the valley - they seem to think it’s all ranches or orchards or something else agricultural. (I’ve described some of these people - Riordan and Hahn among them - as ‘they couldn’t find the valley if you put them on the 405 northbound at Sunset with a map and a driver’.)
punaise @ 26
How about a weekly FireDogLake TV Show? One that concentrates on the “missing news” that the MSM ignores or covers up?
Any sponsors out there willing to consider it? The opening page of the TVshow could look just like the website.
Think about the expertise and talent we already have in front of us; Jane’s the producer, Christy’s the Director and Marcy’s the copywriter. Swopa could be the daily host and Pach could do the hard-hitting, thought provoking editorials. And the rest of the crew could help cover the stories and production.
And punaise could offer some occasional humor, either original or gleaned from othere on the blog…
Invite Arriana now and then for a guest editorial.(Hey, I’d watch it just to see those girls again. True confessions from a recovering dominant male, just don’t tell my wife of thirty years…)
How about this; it starts with “Live, from the campfires of Firedog Lake, we bring you “The Weekly Truth” a television show dedicated to uncovering the secrets and lies of our lawmakers and political leaders.”
We may not be able to sell it to the MSM, but there’s lot of local-access cable and u-tube for now. If the sponsorship was great enough, even one of the MSM outlets might bite on it.
We could even produce a weekly DVD to mail out to anyone who wants to pay the nominal “inter-netflix” fees it might take to send it out.
We could have a “truth and concequenses” game, reading the tripe that the Judiths, Victorias, Babs and others post and cutting it to shreds with simple logic and offsetting facts, much like we did with Juliet Eilperin and Michael Grunwald today about their whitewashing of Tauscher.
Just consider it, at least as an experiment; FireDog Lake, as part of the MSM?
Well, I guess it goes to “if you can’t beat em, join them.”
And then beat them at their own game.
Jane, you must have considered this some time or another, what’s the chances of mixing medias here, making FDL a true multimedia entity, with radio and TV versions, all built on your website model.
Instead of the MSM finally getting onto the blogs (Keith’s “Bloggerman” was one of the first to recognize the potential), we’ll be the blogs finally getting into the MSM.
Look for an email from me. I think this is a good beginning to a plan to open up the truth to more people who, due to MSM billionaire bosses, never hear the truth.
I will be persistent here, I want a personal rejection of some sort from one of you SENIOR FDLers for this idea, I won’t be offended, and anything less would leave me hope that these mighty mediums might merge sooner than later.
If history looks back on this moment, FDL’s entry into the MSM as a “conscience transplant” for a sociopathic mainstream media may well have started with your work this past week.
JEP
thanks PJ. I’ll ask about the zoning. what else?
I just left word at KCRW…see if they want to follow this.
any other suggestions for now?
Deb
For our Jury Watchers and Waiters in DC, If I were there, and it was a nice day, I’d suggest a walk out to the FDR Memorial, which is apparently out beyond the Korean War Memorial which is more or less opposite the Vietnam one on the Mall. It is fairly new, constructed and dedicated during Clinton’s terms. Apparently they have a very good bookstore.
For those who sit home and wait — and cannot quite get away from the court scene, may I suggest another trial, one I believe compares in interesting ways with this one, and that is the two trials in 1951-52 of Alger Hiss. There are yards and yards of books on this one, and you will get yourself all involved with woodstock typewriters and 1920’s typefaces, and at least in the first trial, all the famous New Dealers who stuck with Hiss and appeared as character witnesses. What has been interesting me in recent weeks is recalling how the Republicans ran for office, and built successful political careers on this trial for near 50 years. It was the root of Richard Nixon’s career without question.
Hiss was convicted of two counts of perjury in the second trial, and served much of a 4 year sentence, mostly in the company of mob types. And the debate about his guilt continues to this day — Was or was he not Ales in the Venona decrypts finally declassified in the mid 90’s? The current National Archivist, Alan Weinstein made his career as a ‘political’ Academic on arguments about Woodstocks and eventually the Ales debate.
I actually think a convicted (pardoned or not) Libby could serve the same political purpose for Democrats, if we had message shapers and communicators able to properly boil the case down to the right nuggets.
Ed*ard Teller @ 144
I loved the “Baroque Cycle” myself, but my husband did not.
After finishing the series, I suggested he skip the first 400 pages in Book 1 about Daniel and start with the section about Jack Shaftoe. He did, and promptly devoured the rest of the series. The first 400 pages were not that necessary to follow the plot.
The words I’m waiting to hear:
“Madame foreperson, have you reached a verdict?”
“We have, your Honor.
“We find the defendant guilty on all counts.”
No insights. All I can say is thank you for the coverage that you did on this case, and the trial. Contrary to the Toensing nonsense in the WaPo, this case was NOT a small deal–the outing of Valerie Plame was, at the very least,grotesquely irresponsible and at worst, treasonous. It was not a particularly easy case to follow for someone who does not practice criminal law.
Nonetheless, FDL boiled the legal nuances down in a manner that made them accessible to those of us who don’t have the background. The coverage of this trial (to me) represented the best that the blogs can offer; the authors are eminiently more qualified to opine on what all this “meant” than the stenography that has now been enshrined as political reporting. (Such a shame about the naughty language, tho’ ;-)).
“And now we play the waiting game.”
“Ohhh, the waiting game sucks! Let’s play Parcheesi.”
VICTORY !
The information that came out and the knots that have tied up the Bush/Cheney Administration were worth it all.
Jwoods @
114
My guess is more Iran “intel”
mc @ 251
Don’t we want to have them read each count and give the verdict, like they do on Law and Order? The folks in the audience can gasp? Libby can stand there with a stoic look on his face while Wells cries with each “guilty” pronouncement?
A little imagination here makes the waiting worthwhile.
Fairfax @ 102
Second that- my favorite for years and years of idle re-reads…
Been away from the blog for most of the day, actually most of the past week. Had a weekend-long job interview and now I’m waiting to hear from them. It could take a week or two for them to process everything so this thread is prescient. Now I have to go back up and read the comments!
Pat_AlexVA @
222
Interesting to compare Marcy with Jeralyn takes. It may be optimism but I am with Marcy. Memory may be a strange thing but there really does seem to be a pattern of loss of memory here which hopefully the jury will find odd. They were certainly invited to.
One question; could the evidence in the trial be enough to justify opening the Cheney indictment, if that’s what Sealed v Sealed really is, even if Libby acquitted or there is a mistrial?
Last, unfortunately we Brits aren’t leaving Basra, just reducing numbers, and HRH Harry’s going, it appears.
here’s my (belated) contribution on something to do while waiting for the jury…
while i am extraordinarily grateful to marcy for her liveblogging… i am also sad to know that i will never hear fitz’s closing. there’s something lost in reading a liveblogging or a transcript of a spoken communication. i love both methods of communication - but they are quite different things, the spoken word and a written communication.
so, i went back and listened to fitz’s oct, 28th 2005 press conference when he announced the libby indictment (transcript here).
here’s something that stood out for me on this listening:
gives some extra context to yesterday’s (from marcy’s liveblog):
Somebody needs to update the following wikipedia articles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.....#The_Trial
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_cheney
especially appropriate in the dick cheney article would be a section entitled “Cloud over Cheney” Fitz said in his closing argument for Libby trial that cloud was over Cheney. Cloud is there as result of Libby throwing sand in the face of FBI agent’s eyes, obstructing investigation. Asked jury to bring us back truth.” In previous cases, Fitz used conviction of subordinates to nail principals. Media Speculation is upon conviction, absent pardon, he may go after Cheney.” It would all have to be cited. There is an editor there Auburn Pilot that takes care of Deadeye.
I authored an article about the Pumphead syndrome and Auburn santized refrences to Cheney. There have been comments that he was a pretty conservative guy but he lost his inhibitions upon his bypass operations and became pretty reckless.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumphead_syndrome
DefermentDick @
239
I’m strictly a tweed amp guy, though all mine are clones. Chaqmp, 5E3 Deluxe and now I’m building the Super. I also built the Champ, I’ve had the deluxe for 10 years, built by a guy in Nashville.
Allen makes some great amps, but I’m a builder now. If I want something, I just build it.
Thank you so much FireDogLake for all the live-blogging! It’s been fantastic.
My prediction: Libby walks on all counts.
My father is a federal judge - he’s disgusted by Patrick Fitzgerald. I think Fitzgerald’s a disgrace too. This was a trial in search of evidence. There has never been a perjury case prosecuted like this one, never. No prosecutor would touch this case with a bargepole, except… you guessed it - the Fitz-man.
And what has Fitzgerald done for his star witnesses, the reporters? Fuhgeddabout it. Miller, Russert, all of them cozying up to power in order to… get spinned! This is the low point of American Journalism post WWII, no question about it.
OJ got off, and everybody knew he did it. If Libby gets convicted on any of the counts, who can be sure he’s really guilty? No doubt a lot of the haters who posted here, but really… I believe him over the journalists who testified, no contest…
Thanks again for a terrific blog experience!
Myself would suggest renting a season of 24. While watching the show, you may replace Jack by Fitz and the countless torture victims by your fav characters: Judy, Dick, Scooter, Woodward, Russ. Belive me it will be gr8 fun.
has anyone heard the audio of Libby testifying before the GJ? Wish i could have seen the jurists’ faces while he lied like a cheap carpet.
Great Job team FDL and many thanks. I am officially on holiday, but I can’t help but spend an hour or two every day following the trial.
Three very funny books that will cause any breathing being to laugh out loud are “A Confederacy of Dunces” by John Kennedy Toole and “My Blue Heaven” and “Putting On The Ritz”, both by Joe Keenan. A very different book is “Mother London” by Michael Moorcock where the history of London from about 1939 to the 1980’s is given from the point of view of three long-time friends who meet weekly at an out patient psychiatric clinic. London itself becomes the fourth character and anyone visiting London will find the book invaluable.
EvilDrPuma @ 152
Amen. Totally agree.
NY_Steve @ 263
You can’t parallel this to OJ. The prosecutors in that case had little command of the legal system and how to present evidence to jurors. Plus, you had a lead investigator in the police department take the 5th on the stand.
In this case, Libby lied. Fitz knew he lied. He has corroborating testimonies from multiple witnesses. His own bosses’ notes contradicts Libby’s testimony.
For me, this whole trial is about ensuring that no one is above the law. The administration has acted for the last 7 years as if they not only were above the law, but that they could create reality by manipulating intelligence and the press, and by assassinating the character of any critics.
THAT is why Libby lied. He thought he could get away with it. THAT is why Cheney and folks treated classified info as tools to create their own version of reality and to sell it to the world.
This trial serves as a reality check for us all: the government, the press, and citizentry.
NY_Steve @ 262
And over Cathy Martin Cheney’s Press Secretary at the time, Ari Fleisher the then Press Secretary for the President, an FBI agent, CIA briefer, etc.
Thank you for making it perfectly clear that you are clearly a partisan yourself given your apparent ignorance of the fact that the reporters were not the sole witnesses that showed Libby’s deceptive behaviour but some of his closest professional associates at the time as well.
Nice attempt at a drive by smear, too bad this is a site where the vast majority of the readers here will know that you are simply one more member of the Trolletariat mobilized to protect Bushco, Cheney, and the traitors that outed a covert asset protecting us all from nuclear proliferation. You certainly have shown where *your* real allegiances are, and it is not with truth, reality, or justice.
NY_Steve @ 263
BTW, there has been one perjury case like this one. Remember Ken Starr?
Oh, but that was about sex in the white house. The only thing that outed was Billy’s Willy.
Any lawyers left on this thread?
Didn’t Fitz state that Rove had a different memory of the conversation with Libby than Libby did? If so, did he overstep the evidentiary bounds and what are the consequences?
Will @
261
Our country is run by a dry drunk and a pumphead. Explains a lot.
I have followed this case since its inception and what really bites, is that I have to leave early tomorrow am on a 2 day business trip with limited computer access. CRAP!!! Hope the verdict comes back late today or next week. I don’t want to miss being there blogging with my fellow firedogs!
In my most recent jury trial, I had the ultimate break while the jury was out. I had an emergency appendectomy.
I was on percocet when the jury came back, and my cocounsel called me to tell me we won. I thik I was excited. Can’t remember.
I can see scooter in Monica dress now. And if you peer behind the buffet table, why it is Linda Tripp and Lucienne Goldberg. Heavens!
Heads up everyone– while you’re waiting, if you haven’t found her yet, go visit Jeralyn’s Libby Trial: Missing the Forest From the Trees for a sobering look at what she thinks the verdict is likely to be. You may disagree, but she helps provide some “balance” to the coverage here.
Bob in HI
Speaking of how to pass the time, how much time we talkin”?
Shooter skooted outta town mightyquick a’fore the closing stmts. He gonna find enuf quail on t’other side ‘a the world to last till the jury comes back? or-r-r till…..?
Say. How’s that war-crimes trial talk goin’ in Germany? Any others gearing up?
“The Man Without a Country”(?)
Hm-m-m-m….
NY_Steve @
263
So you believe that Libby could have more of less the same conversation with 9 people and they could all remember it but he couldn’t? So they are all lying and he isn’t?
And you believe that he could have learned something from the VP, then forgot that he knew it, and then learned it again “as if for the first time”?
OK. . .
I’m not a “hater” — I am a realist.
Well, my father isn’t a prosecutor, but my spiritual mother is a judge, and she always says:
” If it doesn’t make sense, it probably isn’t true”
My spiritual aunt who is a judge also might say
“I wouldn’t believe Scooter Libby if his tongue came notarized”
Of course, who knows what the jury will do . . .
GE @ 278
If his tongue was notarized? Do they have forked notary stamps?
NY Steve@263 - I have practiced law for 20 years and have known several Federal judges personally, and practiced in front of to many to count. I find your story about your father extremely hard to believe. In the first place, Federal judges, for the most part, tend to hold US Attorneys in at least a decent regard. Secondly, Pat Fitzgerald is held in almost the highest regard imaginable by nearly everyone who has ever been around him, even his opponents. In this case, Judge Walton made the unprecedented statement that Fitzgerald is the most honest, competent and professional prosecutor he has ever seen. NY Steve, your comment has zero credibility.
Cheney’ strategy for political opponents
If there is an analogy for this trial it might be related to Daniel Ellsberg who turned over the Pentagon papers and his psychiatrist’s office was subsequently broken in and his file stolen. The corporate press was courageous back then (publishing “the papers”)while the performance this time around sure shows the need for an alternative. FireDogLake
Will @
261
I heard Nina Totenberg on NPR give a different reading of that quote– She said a “cloud over THE WHITE HOUSE and Dick Cheney…”
Did Marcy miss those three words, or was Nina imagining them? It can make a big difference, and if Marcy left those words out and they were actually spoken, she will probably be excoriated for leaving them out of such a quotable phrase (yes, we know its not a transcript, but will the MSM let it go?)
This is big, because it is so much like John Dean’s “There’s a cancer on the presidency” phrase.
Bob in HI
Will these court transcripts be released, or requested?
Fantastic book to lose yourself in:
The Fortress of Solitude by Jonathan Lethem
The waiting is the hardest part… Just ask a Clarkie. :/
HappyDays @
271
If counsel doesn’t object to opposing counsel’s jury argument, thus giving trial judge a chance to give curative instruction, then ground for appeal is lost. This matter was addressed in previous post about Jeffereds (sp?) making objection about covert nature of Wilson femme job while Wells had head in his hands. Judge called sidebar. Later gave a curative state of mind instruction.
If you snooze, you lose. Ground not preserved for appeal. Trial court must be given opportunity to address problem.
One thing that is hard to explain to non-legal people. No two juries are the same. Different juries reach different results. No such thing as absolute truth, not when measured by juries. 90% of the trial is over when the jury is chosen. That’s why they have jury selection psychologists and body language experts help pick jurors.
John Edwards used to pre-try his cases in front of dry-run juries and see what worked and what didn’t. Kind of like focus groups. I wonder if Fitz and Wells ran this case in front of focus groups?
I’ve had jury trials that resulted in hung juries on a first trial. Then we retried them with a different jury and it wasn’t even close. Again, Different jury- different result. One of the great lessons in law- learning to live with jury results. The great fun after a trial is talking to jurors- if they talk to you. they definitely will surprise you.
Didn’t Irving Libby write a book?
Ow! Ow! Ow!
Ok. The part of DC that skeeved me was the horrible bombed-out hoodz a few blocks east of the WH/Congress complex. Lately I realized that that’s where all the undergound tunnels & complexes are and they can’t have people digging foundations.
Giant undergound complexes under a swamp. That’s gotta cost.
Dr. Bong @ 228
The good Doctor! ‘ow the ‘ell have you been, eh?
Wow - thanks for writing, Jwoods:
I can parallel this to OJ anytime I want, thanks to FireDogLake! We’ll soon know whether the Libby prosecutors were competent or not. I fear they will be judged somewhat harshly by history, but I could be wrong. Nevertheless a few parallels Libby and OJ share are that
(1) the media is part of the event
(2) judges and prosecutors are grandstanding to see what kind of press they can generate, i.e. types like Judge Ito and Patrick Fitzgerald who put their own personal ambitions and narcissism ahead of any consideration of the justice system. The rules of evidence, legal procedure, etc… are supposed to be applied equally to all. They’re not, of course, but they’re supposed to be. That’s why justice is “blind”, i.e. wearing a blindfold all the time, which leads me to my next point, about whether there’s been another perjury case like the Libby case prosecuted - ever… You say…
The Libby case is an unprecedented high-profile perjury case, period. I have not read of a similar case ever being prosecuted, and I’ve been looking. But since you bring up Clinton/Starr, let’s take a look.
In the Libby case you have people recalling things, some of whom have cut deals with the prosecutor to get immunity, special favors (be able to have attorneys present at grand jury appearances, things like that), etc… You also have a tape of the defendant’s grand jury testimony.
In the Clinton/Ken Starr case, you had people (Clinton and Monica) recalling things too, you had the videotape of Clinton’s deposition (quibbling over the meaning of “is”, etc…), and in those respects the two cases were quite similar. What set the two cases apart is that in the Clinton case, there was a blue dress from the Gap that had Clinton’s semen on it - - proven by DNA testing… And make no mistake - it was the dress that did Clinton in. He would have walked without the dress.
That’s the kind of evidence that was lacking in the Libby case.
As for those (bmaz) who think…
… Yeah Judge Ito used to tell the lawyers how great they all were too, back in the old OJ days. Don’t you remember? But I get your drift - you think Patrick Fitzgerald is the big hero. Check out your compatriot Jeralyn, who deserves serious props for saying that the emperor isn’t wearing any clothes. She basically calls Fitz a coward because he didn’t have the balls to go after Cheney directly, instead putting the torch on Libby, hoping to flip him, because that’s how U.S. Attorneys do. It didn’t work. But yeah, Fitz, nice try, you could have been a Guiliani or Spitzer, you could have been a contender, instead of a… But I digress. Ahem. Memo to bmaz: You say…
… I don’t know too many experienced lawyers who confuse the use of “to” with “too”, but there’s a first time for everything! I’m not blaming you, bmaz - our educational system isn’t what it used to be. Please take note - I’m taking you at your word, bad grammar and all, after you’ve all but accused me of lying in a previous post. Shame on you! Peace!