
Originally, I told Christy this post was going to be about post trial motions, and I'm gonna cover some of those as well. However, of the last couple days I have noticed a tension building with respect to two different concepts and I think they deserve some discussion because I don’t want folks to get confused. That includes our good friends in the MSM who have taken to checking in here to check out their own take on the story. So, I want to take a moment to compare and contrast two, sort of, related concepts jury nullification and Judgment Notwithstanding Verdict (a/k/a Judgment NOV—it’s the Latin babay!)
Jury Nullification
Is when the jury when presented with facts that full support every element of the crime charged and fully believing all of the evidence presented by the Prosecution and fully believing that the quality and quantum of evidence submitted by the Prosecution is sufficient to convict on the crimes charged, nonetheless vote to acquit. WHHAATTT??? You say? Acquit! How could they acquit?
It’s like this pups: Sometimes the jury just doesn’t like the charges. It happens all the time in drunk driving cases where no one was injured and no property was destroyed and the driver was on the way home from a wedding or other celebratory occasion. Jurors all either have been there or have a loved one who has and think, it’s just because it was this driver’s bad luck to be pulled over. Even more so, if the guy was charged after he safely navigated home to his own driveway. It’s the no harm no foul jury nullification and, pups, it happens.
Or there is “the prosecutor is a tight assed prick with political ambitions and we just hate him type of jury nullification”, the defense tried that in both the Leona Helmsley and Martha Stewart cases, though without any noticeable success.
There are a couple other versions that I haven’t the space to go into, but the one that has been in play in this case is the “I can’t believe you are calling that a crime” version. I’ll give you an example from another case. In US v. Capasso former Miss America Bess Myerson was accused of giving a job to the bi-polar, otherwise unemployable daughter of the judge in her married lover’s divorce case as bribe to get the judge, who up until then had ruled in favor of Capasso’s wife in several key motions, to reverse course and rule in favor of Andy Cappasso despite the merits favoring the wife.
The government put on multiple layers of testimony proving every element of the crime charged, yet in a decision that stunned everyone in the courtroom that night, the jury unanimously acquitted. Press interviews with the jury members thereafter revealed that many of the jurors felt that trading favors for jobs happens all the time and refused to believe, despite explicated and repeated jury instructions that this should be a crime. In short, the jury confused their role and decided to substitute their judgment of what crimes should be on the books for Congress’s role in deciding what constitutes a crime. It didn’t hurt that the jury forewoman later revealed that she had gotten her government job from a “favor”, or that many jurors in a version of the “we don’t like the prosecutor” form of Jury Nullification did not approve of the Prosecution’s use of the testimony of the daughter in a prosecution of her mother, the judge accused of accepting a bribe in the form of the job for the daughter.
Team Libby has been pounding the “this should not be a crime” theme since day one. We have heard the “no charge on the underlying crime” mantra ever since the indictment press conference. Victoria Toensing and the Wall Street Journal have made a cottage industry out of this canard. Byron York’s latest piece for the Washington Post continues it up to the present time.
Judgment Notwithstanding Verdict
Judgment NOV may be new to all of you. You don’t hear about it in episodes of “Law & Order” and I can’t recall a “Perry Mason” episode ever mentioning it. The theory of Judgment NOV is related to a concept called a “Directed Verdict”. In this motion, the Defense asks the Judge to direct the jury as a matter of law that the evidence submitted by the Prosecution does not make out every element of the crime charged and that they MUST as a matter of law acquit the defendant. At the conclusion of the Summations, expect the defense to make this motion as a matter of form.
If the jury convicts, expect the Defense to make a motion for Judgment of acquittal Notwithstanding Verdict of conviction (a/k/a Judgment N.O.V.). The theory of a Judgment NOV can be the same as that for a directed verdict and/or it can be that the jury did not apply the facts in the manner which the judge instructed them to or that the jury did not apply the law in the manner the judge instructed them to.
This is why there was so much wrangling at the end of last week over the jury instructions and the verdict questionnaire. Not all cases use a verdict questionnaire. Some cases just have a straight up or down vote. In some cases a questionnaire is used so that the court and lawyers will know how the jury did their reasoning.
In this case, there is particular significance because the judge has ruled that one of the allegations in one of the obstruction counts was not proved up with sufficient specificity. Now don’t worry and don’t buy the spin that Babs Comstock is trying to make of this. The count in question had three lies alleged, any single one of which was sufficient standing alone to permit conviction on that count. So, even with the one allegation stricken as to that count, there are still two left; either of which is sufficient by itself.
Remember the total piece of genius misdirection Johnny Cochrane got away with during the Summation at the OJ Simpson trial? Remember “if the glove don’t fit you must acquit”? Horsefeathers! There was plenty of evidence in that case even if the gloves had never existed. Because Judge Ito completely lost control of his own courtroom and just caved and caved every time Cochrane started talking fast, Cochrane more than earned his fee by being able to make that totally unfounded argument.
Why do I bring this up? Because, there was a huge amount of wrangling at the end of the week both about how the jury questionnaire will handle this point and about the jury instructions. Look for the defense to be trying to fashion an instruction to the jury that says “just because the July 12th Judy Miller conversation is not sufficiently proved up, you shouldn’t consider it for count X” coupled with a possible Defense Summation that tried to confuse the jury into believing that if one Judy conversation is out that there is no way they can convict (don’t forget Ted Wells’ strange statement in his Opening that the only way the jury could convict would be if they violate their oath as jurors—I still cannot believe the judge did not ding him for that), to lead to a defense contention that some answer on the jury questionnaire somehow means that they considered verboten evidence or did not follow the judge’s instructions on the law.
I believe, though I have no actual information not in the public domain, that some of THE MOST IMPORTANT legal battles since the greymail/CIPA wars are going on over this holiday weekend. So, while you are off skiing, or going to those President’s Day sales at the mall, spare a moment for the out-manned, overworked, surely physically exhausted men and women of Team Fitz. I think they are sprinting to the finish while we are sleeping in or enjoying our Sunday Morning cuppa. So, here’s a shout out and good wishes to from the hometowners back in NY to Pat and all of Team Fitz.
Ooops. Almost forgot. Some other post trial motions you may want to watch for:
If Libby is convicted the Defense will almost certainly move to have Libby’s bail continued pending the appeal. If that motion is denied, they will then move to allow Libby to “surrender” on a date a couple/few weeks in the future so that he will have time to get his finances, etc organized. Libby has not proven a flight risk, so it is likely one or the other of these motions would be granted.
If the judge does not indicate that the gag order is lifted, one side or the other will probably make a motion to allow them to speak to the press. Cause you gotta know, either way, somebody’s gonna want to speak to the press.
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Nil.
I just gotta fitz!
looseheadprop — typo alert: “That includes are good friends . . ” you probably meant “our” good friends . . .
The “political prosecution” nullification defense worked for Susan McDonald, I think. She wrote about it in her book.
Whoot! Well explicated LHP. Thanks
Never believed that particular claim about the poor, poor gov’t attorneys. Sorry.
lhp, you have a way of translating legalese into regular chat that makes so much sense to this non-lawyer type.
thank you for your well written explanations.
EPU’d, but relevant:
*xyz @ 141
[Mod Note; Please do not “Quote this Comment” again.]
If Libby is convicted the Defense will almost certainly move to have Libby’s bail continued pending the appeal. If that motion is denied, they will then move to allow Libby to “surrender” on a date a couple/few weeks in the future so that he will have time to get his finances, etc organized. Libby has not proven a flight risk, so it is likely one or the other of these motions would be granted.
dammit…I want Libby to do a meet and greet in Leavenworth the night he’s convicted! An indigent criminal would not get this kind of consideration, I bet….
Once, lo-these-many-years-ago, I saw the appeal briefs for DEC v Data General. The original verdict was NOV by the judge, after the jury had found for them (and that after the judge had done everything possible to get a jury that knew zero about computers; I heard one prospective juror was excused because a daughter had taken a keypunch class). It happens, just not often. (Oh yes: DEC won on appeal. ISTR it went all the way up.)
Today in a 2-1 decision by the US Court of Appeals for the District of Coulmbia affirmed the Congress’s right in the Military Commissions Act to deny federal courts habeas corpus review of detainees held at Guantanamo Bay.
The 3 judge panel was comprised of the following:
Raymond Randolph, Bush I appointee, wrote the opinion in this case.
David Sentelle, Reagan appointee, voted to overturn the convictions of Oliver North and John Poindexter. One of the judges responsible for appointing Kenneth Starr to investigate President Bill Clinton. Voted with Randolph in this opinion.
Judith Rogers, Clinton appointee, dissented.
As Judge Randolph framed the issues of the case:
I believe all 3 judges agreed that the MCA applied to the detainees’ habeas petitions and that it was Congress’s intent to deny all such petitions.
With regard to the second point, Randolph argues in the majority opinion that these were aliens detained outside the United States, with no real connection to it or its courts. They therefore never had a habeas right because they were never under an American court’s jurisdiction.
In her dissent, Rogers cited the Supreme Court decision in Rasul:
So the detainees did at some point have a habeas right recognized by the Supreme Court. In such a case, the only way that Congress can suspend habeas is in accordance with Article I, 9, cl.2 of the Constitution which states “The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.”
This is a limitation on the powers of the Congress which were clearly superseded in the MCA. In the absence of a rebellion or invasion, the Congress can not arbitrarily suspend habeas.
The effect of such a move, Rogers captures in the following: (Alexander Hamilton in the Federalist Papers citing William Blackstone)
THE FEDERALIST NO. 84, at 468 (E.H. Scott ed. 1898) (quoting WILLIAM BLACKSTONE, 1 COMMENTARIES *131-32);
In other words, this is the kind of issue for which our forefathers fought a revolution and thought it was worth fighting for, that a government must be answerable for its actions and that those actions are challengeable.
As I see it, Randolph is making the case that detainees never had a habeas right. This would be a defensible legal (if not ultimately Constitutional) position if both the Congress and the Supreme Court had held to it consistently. But they haven’t. The Supreme Court in Rasul acknowledged that habeas existed in such cases, as did the Congress in the Detainee Treatment Act (while trying to place limitations upon it. Habeas is not a sometime thing. Once admitted it can not be finessed or glossed over. As soon as it is accepted however grudgingly, it can not be suspended except under the conditions of rebellion or invasion specified in the Constitution. Randolph’s opinion is specious because it chooses to ignore the judicial and legislative histories of the current habeas controversy, our common law heritage, and the Constitution itself. That’s a lot to overlook even for an appellate judge, except of course one who believes in arbitrary government.
http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov.....-5062b.pdf
While I don’t disagree that it happens, do you really think that the jury could come to that conclusion based on the facts of this trial?
If so, I will be sorely disappointed in this jury, and that would be puttin it mildly.
LA Times had an excellent story about it almost a year ago, IIRC. Unfortunately, it’s behind their firewall now. It’s not so much the salaries, although they are not great, it’s about the resources to take depositions and retain expert testimony, all the things the government needs to win a case against deep pocketed defendants. Add this to the revelations about the DOJ firing of six USA’s, it certainly brings back memories of Grover Norquist’s: “we want to shrink government down so we can drown it in a bathtub.”
spare a moment for the outmanned, overworked, surely physically exhausted men and women of Team Fitz.
We’ve worn out the knees of our pants praying for them.
Jane, Marcy, Christy, Pach, Jeralyn & Co.,
Thanks so much for all your hard work during this trial. It was great being able to follow along in real time, especially today, when I had my heart in my throat! I just sent you another PayPal contribution — money well very well-spent, IMO. Everyone who has benefitted from these live blogs and post-hearing analyses should contribute what they can, even if the amount is small. This has been a real public service.
Speaking of Republican felons not in prison yet, an admittedly large universe, why hasn’t Bob Ney reported to the slammer yet? It’s been weeks since his sentencing. Maybe he’s dealing Rove under the bus, from the Iran thing or something? In which case he may need the witness protection program.
-
I just finished reading Marcy’s live blogging of the Fabulous Fitzgerald and I swear if he walked in this moment, I would stand up and salute, cheer, cry, swoon and generally make a fool of myself. Such a pure and persistent pursuit of the truth is such an amazing thing to “see/hear”.
Thank you Mr. Patrick Fitgerald, I am in awe.
Thanks also to Marcy, Jane, Christy, Pach, Trex, Jeralyn, looseheadprop etc. etc. and to all of the incredibly intelligent (and snarky) bloggers. Right now, I am proud to be an American—which is something I haven’t said or felt these past five years—because I know I share a country with the likes Fitgerald, his crew and all the firedogs. Thank you Mr. Fitzgerald and the community of firedoglake for your service to our country.
(And yes, I just thanked firedoglake with a paypal payment of $50.07, even though I have no idea what the $.07 is for)
I do not like jury null. It goes against the grain of my sensibilities.
what lamujersalvaje said.
Shit, was I supposed to put an .07 on the end?
The $.07 to specifically designate that donation to cover costs of Plame House and trial coverage for the Great Pups
terre #13, don’t get your hopes up too high, darlin’. We’ve all had way too many disappointments to be complacent.
On the other hand, if the jury does acquit, well, all I can say is New Zealand is looking better and better…especially after Bush gives the okey-dokey and the bombs start flying over Tehran.
A cloud over Vice president Cheney……..
A sentence I will treasure forever.
I bet Shooters butt cheeks clenched when he saw that put out for the world to see.
Shout out to all the federal government employees on FDL today - from DOJ (of course), NASA, NIH, Air Force, EPA, DOE, Nat’l Cancer Institute, United Nations (ok, not technically government).
itwasntme @ 21
S’ok, put mine in the male strippers and dog treats fund!
itwasntme @ 21
Aw darn, I didn’t know that. Well FDL, out of all the money you’ve received, $40 of it should have really been $40.14. Next time.
In short, the jury confused their role and decided to substitute their judgment of what crimes should be on the books for Congress’s role in deciding what constitutes a crime.
Without the possibility of jury nullification, why bother having juries?
Jury nullification is neither good nor bad. It is a lawful power of the Jury, it’s kind of dumb to whine about it.
I tend to find that the only people to whine about it are lawyers that would benefit by taking the power from the jury. It’s basically just a hidden power grab.
I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution.
—Thomas Jefferson, 1789 letter to Thomas Paine
Historical examples include American revolutionaries who refused to convict under English law, juries who refuse to convict due to perceived injustice of a law in general, the perceived injustice of the way the law is applied in particular cases, and cases where the juries have refused to convict due to their own prejudices such as the race of one of the parties in the case.
(And yes, I just thanked firedoglake with a paypal payment of $50.07, even though I have no idea what the $.07 is for)
it makes sure that your contribution is used to support the liveblogging effort (hopefully, enough money has now been raised to provide Marcy with long-term medical coverage for treatment of carpal-tunnel)!
From the Chicago Trib politics blog, partial transcript of the media grilling Tony Snow about the conditions at Walter Reed:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribun.....grill.html
Wiki goodness:
Nullification in the United States
John Peter Zenger, a printer in the English colony of New York, was tried for seditious libel in 1734 for publishing a newspaper critical of the governor. The jury acquitted Zenger despite the judge’s instructions; this is perhaps the most famous early instance of jury nullification in the colonies that became the United States.
The use of the jury to act as a protection of last resort was espoused by many influential people surrounding the framing of the U.S. Constitution. For example, John Adams said of jurors: “It is not only his right but also his duty… to find the verdict according to his own best understanding, judgment, and conscience, though in direct opposition to the direction of the court.”
First Chief Justice of the US John Jay wrote: “It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still both objects are within your power of decision… you [juries] have a right to take it upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy”.
It was over time that judicial and legal opinion slowly changed to consider jury nullification only a power and not a right of juries, as courts wanted stricter enforcement of laws that juries nullified.
[edit] Nullification in practice
Nullification has a mixed history in the United States. Jury nullification appeared in the pre-Civil War era when juries occasionally refused to convict for violations of the Fugitive Slave Act. However, during the Civil Rights era, all-white juries were known to refuse to convict white defendants for the murder of African-Americans.[6] During Prohibition, juries often nullified alcohol control laws,[7] possibly as often as 60% of the time.[8]
In the 21st century, many discussions of jury nullification center around drug laws that some consider unjust either in principle or because they are seen to discriminate against African-Americans. A jury nullification advocacy group estimates that 3–4% of all jury trials involve nullification,[8] and a recent rise in hung juries (from an average of 5% to nearly 20% in recent years) is considered additional evidence that juries have begun to consider the validity or fairness of the laws themselves.[9]
[edit] Court rulings
In recent years, courts seem to like jury nullification less and less. While unable to take away the power of nullification, they have done much to prevent its use.
The 1895 decision in Sparf v. U.S. held that a trial judge has no responsibility to inform the jury of the right to nullify laws. This decision, often cited, has led to a common practice in United States courtrooms in which juries are instructed to find guilt or innocence according to the letter of the law. Jurors are likely to be struck from the panel during voir dire if they reveal awareness of the concept of jury nullification.[citation needed]
A 1969 Fourth Circuit decision, U.S. v. Moylan, affirmed the right of jury nullification, but also upheld the power of the court to refuse to permit an instruction to the jury to this effect.
On the other hand, if the jury does acquit, well, all I can say is New Zealand is looking better and better…especially after Bush gives the okey-dokey and the bombs start flying over Tehran.
unless you are rich, forget NZ…. you have to have large amounts of cash to emigrate there.
(anyone know of a low-cost of living english speaking nation that old gay men can emigrate to?….just asking :) )
itwasntme @ 21
…didn’t realize that, but I trust the Great Pups will use the $ as they see best. Hats off to you all and all the great blogging pups. G’night from the old continent.
What has happened since Nixon & Watergate?
Mainly that the MSM have become, in the aggregate (beyond their commercial infotainment focus), Pravda.
Without the work of the likes of the FDL team, emptywheel, Murray Waas et al, the MSM would have been successful in helping sweep this odious dogpile of treasonous criminality under the rug.
Your importance to the fight to preserve the true American ideal simply cannot be overstated.
Don’t let the Suits and their pol lackeys eliminate ‘net neutrality, or Pravda Today will be all we have left.
_
The “political prosecution” nullification defense worked for Susan McDonald [sic, McDougal] I think. She wrote about it in her book.
Mrs. Mehta was such a horrible witness that the prosecution just unraveled (i.e., even if McDougal seemed kind of guilty, the evidence did not support it beyond a reasonable doubt). There was no need for nullification.
_____________
No chance for nullification in this trial — if they think Scooter did it, they will have zero sympathy for him.
QuentinCompson @ # 17. Isn’t Mr. ney in alcohol rehab somewhere?
Also interesting how Ney (a Farsi speaker - news to me) was a go-between in getting the Irani diplomatic cooperation offer in 2003 (that Condi “forgot” she saw) to Rove’s desk back then.
I agree with Suzanne — I am far from a lawyer and understand everything. (I think) LOL
Thanks to LHP and all!
p.lukasiak @ 31
India
merciless - I stopped getting my hopes up after the “no-Rove-indictment” (yet) news. Even so, it’s still hard not to go there.
Bustednuckles @ 24
Cheney as Joe Btfsplk. I like it.
Professor Prop ,
if you were not able to see it in real time today, look through the Wells Summation 2 thread -
you will see a whole herd of non lawyers jumping up and down, pointing at screen, boisterously pointing out -
OMFG ! It’s lhp’s Scottish Defense !!!, It’s lhp’s Scottish defense !!!
and Prof Prop Was Her Name-O !!!
BobbyG @ 34
Beautifully stated - good on you BobbyG!
Thanks for the great info.
Irving’s not a flight risk? Me, I have to wonder if he gleaned some useful intel while representing billionaire ex-fugitive from Justice, Mark Rich. I’m only suggesting Irving has the means and support network to go on the lam. Of course, with his poor memory, he may forget which alias he’s using while running…
I would have a hard time believing that a DC jury would have a lot of sympathy for an elite government official like Libby. Having lived there for 2 years in the Reagan 80s, it is a town which does not particularly identify with the high-rolling gov officials who dominate the landscape in certain neighborhoods.
If the jury believes Libby is guilty, they will convict. The defenses attempt at jury nullification is a huge long-shot and indicative a a) how frightened and desperate they are and b) how totally out of touch they are with the hoi poloi.
The cloud of darkness follows Dick Cheney like the cloud of dirt followed Pigpen.
Cheney has a new name, Darth Syphillis.
-GSD
$.07 and the donation goes to defray plamehouse expenses.
Also, I wonder if the newly reported UK troop withdrawl is Tony Blair’s tell that an Iranian attack is nigh and he’s looking to get out of quicksand central.
-GSD
No chance for nullification in this trial — if they think Scooter did it, they will have zero sympathy for him.
I think its going to come down to the judges instructions in this case….the WhiteHats and TeamLibby provided two different views of how the evidence should be interpreted within the law itself — the judge will tell them which interpretation is correct.
(i.e. TeamLibby argued that because the indictment/charges were based on statements made to Cooper and Russert, that if there is a reasonable doubt regarding their credibility, an acquittal is required. I think the judge will explain that the Fitz version of the law is correct—its not whether Cooper and Russert are absolutely credible, its whether the statements made by Libby vis a vis Cooper and Russert were credible…)
Carol Leonnig’s summary of closing arguments for the PBS News Hour was weak. From her demeanor, you would think she were covering a Food Channel episode. It is hard to get a sense of the strengths and weaknesses of each side, or the stakes in play should there be a conviction, from her presentation. Perhaps she’s too used to working to midnight deadlines in print to deliver her story on live television by six pm.
India
you mean I’d have to give up Big Macs? ;)
Sparkles the Iguana @ 38
I have an “old gay” friend who has been happily retired in China on a modest Social Security income. At the time he became an ex-pate the only second language he had was a self-admitted inadequate tourist Spanish.
GSD @ 47
I think it is serious arm-twisting on the part of a really pissed off labour party. If he doesn’t start getting out now, they will take him out and replace him. What with all the other behind the scenes scandals (Peergate etc), he is pretty weak, and he is much like Bush in that he really thinks that he will be vindicated by history. He is determined to hold on to his position as PM until he leaves when he said he would leave.
Excellent point.
FWIW, all US supplies come through Basra on their way north and it’s our escape route.
But if I understand correctly jury nullification occurs when the jury applies “in the real world that’s how it happens” logic over “The law specifically states”
in that case, this might be the “sacrificial lamb skirmish” and the feast will be the VP.
Fitz gave an opening in his close.
The vice emperor isn’t naked … he’s covered in blood.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king’s horses and all the king’s men
Couldn’t put Humpty together again.
Deadeye can’t seem to get this rhyme out of his mind.
Lindy @ 46
Great, then buy a round of drinks on me! ;) You all certainly deserve them!
I don’t think that Russia, China, Pakistan, India and perhaps others will sit still for an attack by Bush on Iran. And I don’t blame them.
p.lukasiak @
50
Holy cow! (g)
I hear that Belize is very nice, and English is the primary language there.
JNOV: judgment non obstante veredicto. That is, of course, a non-Classical ablative absolute construction using the present participle. By medieval times, it was fairly common.
How about GWBush’s future Presidential Library become our
first Federal Presidential Prison for all convicted felons and those impeached of this current and future administrations? Put it
down there near Waco-Crawford. Bush and Cheney can have
day passes to visit their archives while the Pubic can have access
to the Library as a memorial to a Criminal Presidential Administration
Oft and so boring: danGerstein is on Tucker bloviating re: mccain
GW Bush Memorial Library
“Lest they forget”
mbbsdphil @ 49
She has been on the NewsHour a couple of times already and shown only a general and not very insightful or informed view of the trial.
LHP - FWIW, JNOV was part of a Law & Order episode involving some sort of sex crime, where the judge didn’t believe it was a sex crime (he was a sexist judge), and granted a JNOV after the jury found the defendant guilty.
This from the AP:
“If convicted, Libby faces up to 30 years in prison and $1.25 million in fines. Under federal sentencing guidelines, however, he’d likely get a far lighter sentence.” After all it’s not like he selling crack cocaine or something!
legaleze @ 66
Also, it is worth mentioning that he can try to mitigate his sentence by agreeing to fully cooperate with Fitz. I don’t have a hard time believing that Fitz would be very happy to negotiate this point!
And where are the leders of my party, the Democrats, on stopping an Iran attack?
Terre @ 39
I hear you. My little bit of hope feels like too much, but I can’t help myself.
I’m also disappointed to find out that New Zealand is out of my price range. India, huh? Mmmmm…I’ll have to think on it.
[Jeffress leaning against witness stand.] Wells is kind, he says something about Perry Mason moment, it doesn’t take a Perry Mason moment. We looked at all kinds of notes we found he typed Rs instead of Ns, I guessit’s particularly hard when you’re sprawled out on the bed. What that sentence may well have said, if he recorded it accurately is this.
[Jeffress types up the Libby line., then highlights it in the Libby testimony]
[Lots of “ooohhhs” in the media room]
==========================================
could someone explain what the “ooooohs” were about?????????
will check back in later……….
In some jurisdictions, I believe that you cannot file a motion for Judgment Notwithstanding the Verdict unless you first file a motion for a Directed Verdict at the close of the prosecution’s case. I’m not sure if that applies in Federal criminal prosecutions, but if so, it would then not be possible for the Libby team to file a JNOV.
Oft and so boring: danGerstein is on Tucker bloviating re: mccain
you mean MSNBC didn’t pre-empt Tucker for an Anna Nicole Smith special?
dmbeaster @ 160
As I recall there are now only four charges. One of the charges was dropped. But each charge contains several elements (”lies” that Fitz says Libby told to the FBI and GJ on different dates). Some of the counts have three lies, others have only one. I think one had four. Any single lie, if viewed by the unanimous jury as valid, is enough to convict on that count.
I’m sure the jury will look at the issues fairly fully. I don’t know if they will, however go through each of the distinctive “lies” and discuss them fully if a single lie receives a 12-0 vote for a charge. Maybe they’ll simply discuss that one fully, see if anyone disagrees and then ignore the other two or three additional lies (or take a straw vote on those). And move onto the next charge.
If they do it this way, it could be a pretty quick proceeding. If they opt to debate all the different lies…then it could take awhile. But the foreperson may say it’s unnecessary…once they find Libby guilty on one lie for that count.
p.lukasiak @ 72
No no. That is going on at FOX! Breaking news of the day: Anna Nicole’s Body is deteriorating fast! (true! I saw it-the story, not the body)
Edit: are you sitting down? Shuster is doing a Libby trial update! (oh, I spoke too soon - Tucker is whining about Plame not being covert, so why a trial?)
p.lukasiak @ 29
Not to mention several sessions with a good massage therapist!
What ever happens we can all rest assured that the efforts of FDL have proven invaluable in changing the way we can seek truth and keep citizens informed. I hope all of you that have been living at Plame House are comfortable this evening as we await what surely will be an explosive verdict.
I am pretty certain jefferson believed in jury nullification as one of their responsibilites
The whole thing may very well become moot. Pardon. Libby knows where the skeletons are. Call it blackmail perhaps. I believe the Republicans are still playing my party like a cheap two dollar banjo.
Knowing how Cheney reacts to threaths, knowing that rove stops at nothing to win…
Isn’t it possible that these criminals will find a juror, and get exactly what they want???
OT but for some ghoulishness, perhaps some may find this worthwhile @ 8pm tonight on cspan1. ;)
http://inside.c-spanarchives.o.....hedule.csp
legaleze @ 66
wow
that the ap can actually believe selling crack is more harmfull and more depraved then what libby did
bizarre
Maybe it has to be discussed, but jury nullification really isn’t particularly common.
oh and forgot:
this person is a canadian, live-blogging from the media room..they posted their site this morning in the comments section of thread….i followed both today……was helpful.
http://politblogo.typepad.com
cinnamonape @ 73
No, if I understand correctly, there are still five charges. One of the elements of one of the charges was dropped. There are two remaining elements of that charge, and the jury need only find that he is guilty of one of those elements to find him guilty of the charge.
Did Fitzgeral make a mistake in not charging anyone with leaking?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
I would still love to see Waxman take this window of opportunity to call Libby to the hill to talk about Feith’s activities re intelligence. Let him plead the 5th and see how that plays out…
does anyone know how the concervative blogs have looked at the closing statements?
are they as excited about well’s team as we are fitz’s team?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 85
of a trial was lost due to gray mail defense it would affect this trial
I believe the strategy is get this one in the bank in order to get the others on the books
legaleze @
66
Treason. Not as bad as selling crack.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 85
He could not charge anyone with leaking, because Libby “threw sand in his eyes”. Libby is central, and his untruthful testimony makes it impossible to prove all the elements of an IIPA case.
All the other leaks here have been covered by Junior’s retroactive declassifications.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 82
I don’t think it plays a part here, but I maintain I believe it’s a jury’s obligation to judge law as well as the person charged
Oklahoma kiddo @ 68
From today’s WH press briefing
It is so mean of the press corps to actually ask Snow to provide facts to justify his blather.
Thosemenscareme @
79
You bet your sweet ass it is.
No, if I understand correctly, there are still five charges. One of the elements of one of the charges was dropped. There are two remaining elements of that charge, and the jury need only find that he is guilty of one of those elements to find him guilty of the charge
Beth is correct. Fitz decided to use the July 12 Judy Miller conversation as part of his obstruction charge, and there was insufficient evidence that Libby’s statements to Judy at that time constituted obstruction… but the other two elements of the obstruction charge (statements vis a vis Russert and Cooper) remain.
(Why Fitz used the Miller/Libby July 12 conversation, rather than the July 8 conversation, is a mystery to me….)
perris @ 87
Quick look at freerepublic shows nothing. They are however talking about how upset we are with Lieberman.
By the way, Wells didn’t actually say “democrat party” did he? Isn’t that Bush’s sophomoric phrase for the Democratic Party?
“There’s no great mystery about the motives behind this deliberate misnaming. “Democrat Party” is a slur, or intended to be—a handy way to express contempt.” Hendrik Hertzberg, New Yorker, Talk of the Town. August 7, 2006.
If you wish to review the charges against Libby, they can be found here:
On page 11 of the following pdf:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/.....102005.pdf
I would bet that the conservative blogs are anxiously awaiting their tidbits from Jonah, Tom and Victoria…
blergh.
Well hairboy York’s column today, written before summations, seems to be preparing the faithful for conviction on some counts.
http://article.nationalreview......NkMTJiMDU=
Money quote:
“In the end, it seems hard to believe that Libby will be acquitted on all counts. The jury is, after all, a District of Columbia jury, and it stretches the imagination to believe they would unanimously exonerate Dick Cheney’s chief of staff.”
perris @ 87
I think they’re all crying and saying, Give him back!