
Is it stating the obvious to conclude that the only way the United States can reach an agreement with a potential adversary is to bypass the Office of Vice President and make sure that none of Dick Cheney’s minions finds out you’re waging peace until after you get the President to sign on? That’s the story we got from this article in Friday’s New York Times.
In a page 3 article somewhat misleadingly entitled, “Rice is said to have speeded North Korea deal,” reporters David E. Sanger and Thom Shanker reveal that Secretary of State Rice helped push the deal to get the North Koreans to suspend further efforts to develop nuclear weapons and allow international inspectors, in exchange for assistance in obtaining fuel oil supplies and other concessions, with further discussions to follow.
To win approval of a deal with North Korea that has been assailed by conservatives inside and outside the administration, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice bypassed layers of government policy review that had derailed past efforts to negotiate an agreement, several senior administration officials said this week.
In lieu of the formal meetings where objections to such accords were usually voiced during the president’s first term, Mr. Hadley “walked it through with concerned people,” a senior administration official said. The official acknowledged that the process was much more informal, and rapid, than usual, although much of Mr. Hill’s work was built upon previous negotiations at the talks that had been widely vetted across the administration.
But this wasn’t just a case of Condi cutting through layers of inefficient bureaucracy. That’s the official view. Instead, the article hints that what was really going on was Rice using Hadley to bypass Vice President Cheney and his neocon loyalists at the Departments of Defense and State. And Rice had good reasons for doing so:
State Department negotiators almost never dealt with the North Koreans without officials from the Defense Department and the vice president’s office coming along, and reporting back. In one instance, Mr. Cheney stepped into the Oval Office to put an end to a discussion under way in Beijing, when he feared an agreement setting out steps for resolving the nuclear standoff lacked the tough language on disarmament that he believed Mr. Bush wanted. Colin L. Powell, then the secretary of state, learned of the decision after a black-tie dinner.
I suppose the first question we should ask is which provision of the Constitution gives the Vice President the power to insist on being present and having a veto power over US negotiating positions and policy? I guess that’s in the “Signing Statements” clause of the “Unilateral Vice-Executive Article,” which seems to be missing from my copy.
But now we know why first John Bolton and then Elliot Abrams and other neocons came off the wall against the agreement with North Korea. It explains why the White House felt a need to hold a few hands and why those who oppose the neocons are fighting back in support of the agreement.
The neocon objections are not just about substance: they’re about the neocons’ fear of losing power and influence. Of all the expressed complaints — that we’re “rewarding bad behavior,” and not obtaining all the concessions we want before we give any, and — heaven forbid — agreeing to proposals like those that Republicans criticized President Clinton for signing in 1994! — I find this objection the most interesting: We hardnose neocons were cut out, and that’s bad government!
But to some, it seemed the usual procedures were cut short — vetting the details though an interagency process that ordinarily would have brought in Vice President Dick Cheney’s office, the Defense Department and aides at the White House and other agencies who had previously objected to rewarding North Korea before it gives up its weapons.
“There was no process here,” said an official who has been deeply involved in the issue. “Nothing. There was no airing of whether this is the way to deal with the North Koreans.”
State Department officials said that Robert Joseph, the under secretary of state for arms control and disarmament, vehemently disagreed with the approach, telling associates privately what Mr. Bolton has said in public: that the new agreement was no better, and perhaps worse, than one signed by President Clinton in 1994. Mr. Joseph, who announced last month that he would resign soon, declined to comment Thursday.
Once she had the President’s approval, Condi Rice was quick to put the dissenters in their place:
“First of all, the U.S. government is the U.S. government,” she said. “And so the decision has been taken. And since people are loyal to decisions that are taken, I think that everybody expects there to be loyalty to this decision.”
Mr. Bush, asked at a news conference on Wednesday about Mr. Bolton’s critique, was succinct: “I strongly disagree — strongly disagree with his assessment.”
Ouch. How deliciously ironic that the Cheney/Rumsfeld neocons, after making a dismal mess of foreign policy and intelligence for the last six years, usually by bypassing and disparaging the intelligence community and the professionals at State, and then creating their own rogue operations to stovepipe bogus intelligence and disastrous policy recommendations directly into the President, now find that Secretary of State Condi Rice can play the cut-out game too.



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ESTEN!
Good on Rice!! Now she can start dealing with Iran!
Cheney screwed up Israeli-Syrian talks, too. That should be next on her platter.
ok, i’ll do down and tell the others.
Hi, kathryn — I think the “handlers” will not be bypassed or shut out when Condi goes to the Palestinian/Israeli meetings this coming week. I fear there are two many interests opposed to reconciliation.
OH, SNAP!
it’s like the irony of Frank Gaffney being outraged that people object to the neocons’ setting up their own ‘alternative’ (read anti-official) intelligence questioning the government’s intel which doesn’t suit them, and in the same breath calling for the hanging of Carl Levin and anyone who questions our involvement in this so-called ‘war’ (which is not a war).
Big heads to hold so many diametrically opposed views and not blow up in the process.
That’s the tragedy of PNAC meddling, prolonging the grief.
Does this mean there is a rift between the Office of the President and the Office of the Vice President?
Alicia@7:
[Gaffney] in the same breath calling for the hanging of Carl Levin and anyone who questions our involvement in this so-called ‘war’…
I heard his discussion of this on the Alan Colmes radio show (it’s on Crooks and Liars) and he says he was “speaking metaphorically”.
LOL!
so it’s absolutely clear cheney is superseding the president and absolutely does not want peace.
the president has to get his Texas manhood challenged, has to be shown the image is that cheney is superseding the president’s wishes
that should get the president to take some kind of proactive steps to make himself look less the puppet
For the benefit of future historians, the pushback against Bolton’s UN nomination [the first time] brought a lot of new people into the political process. Certain insiders started becoming truly alarmed at the way things were going, including the threat of war against Iran, and started getting the word out.
About damn time. Although it is odd to feel pleased that Secretary Rice has gotten her way, after all the times we’ve been dismayed by her actions. Still, if you’re a grownup, half a loaf is better than none, or in this case, facing reality is better than continuing to engage in destructive (not to mention self-destructive) macho posturing.
I’ll repeat my comment from yesterday:
Shouldn’t the focus of the Democratic Congress be to defund the Office of the Vice President? They probably have to pay Cheney’s salary, but at least strip him of his minions.
Take your ‘unique office that is neither a part of the executive branch nor a part of the legislative branch’ and shove it!
And still the best Condi can do is get them to sign essentially the same deal as Clinton. Could it possibly be that they’re beginning to ffigure out that “Any way but Clintons’ ” is not a plan for running foreign policy?
conniptionfit @
15
And it only took six years…
And Condi will make bazillions on the lecture circuit and sitting on various boards after she’s out.
This woman’s toadyism is obscene.
AP – Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told Iraqi government leaders Saturday that the contentious debate in Washington over President Bush’s war strategy reflects U.S. doubts that democracy will prevail over violence.
uncle toby — I once saw an org chart of various offices in the DoD, State, WH, etc, and Cheney’s “minions” were all over. It’s not just in the OVP. It’s like a 2nd government, at least wrt to national security.
Condi even got smacked by NPR’s Daniel Schorr today on Scott Simons Saturday news program. She must be stepping on some “Israeli firster” toes. Schorr has not been very subtle about his attitude towards Iran….basically helping set the stage for a first strike. Go listen to the NPR’s archives of Schorrs comments about this issue…. very telling
uncletoby@14
That won’t do it. The first blow has to be the killing blow…..
Riesz Fischer @ 10
Yep. That’s why he mentioned hanging in practically every other sentence. These chicken-hawks are sickening. Challenge them and they can’t backpedal fast enough.
A ’shadow government’ is what we have.
In this article, Rice tells Iran that they should look to what happened with North Korea as a model. But I suspect her message is aimed as much at US officials as Iranian.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
“Shadow governments” are usually good things, a transparent way for the party out of power to track what’s going on with the government in power and present an alternative agenda. What we have is a hidden, unaccountable government. Star Wars stuff; dark side of the force.
First reaction: Good on Condie Rice (eww, hurts to write that).
Second reaction: Oh, crap. “They” probably set this up to give Condie some cajones cred in order to position her as VP on the upcoming Republican 2008 ticket.
#7 Gaffney as well as many of the other right wing radicals are dangerous and compulsive revisionist. They are a danger to our nation and obviously to Iraq and others in the middle east.
WHY?? How ’bout because Bush and Rice are well known globally as poeple who will say and do anything for the politically correct appearance, and then will screw you til you bleed the minute you turn your back.
so Condi will backtrack with Iran and take up the offer that they presented to Powell three years ago that was also undermined by the neo-cons and Condi ignored.
Check out the New American Foundation website and go listen to what Flynt Leverett has been saying for years.
uncle toby – Is the OVP a completely separate budget? If so, would it take 51 votes to cut of OVP funding in the senate, or more?
Scarecrow – As always, I really enjoy your posts. Thanks
cathy @
9
If so, poor Scooter, no pardon.
“Just as with the official government, the Shadow Government has functional branches. However, unlike the official government, the purpose of the non-executive branches of the Shadow Government is simply to distribute various functions, but not to achieve a system of checks and balances, as was supposed to happen constitutionally between the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the U.S. Government. That is because the Shadow Government is a creature of a powerful elite, who need not fear being dominated by an instrument of their own creation.” ;0)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/secgov.html
When Condi Rice is cast in the role of Responsible Grownup, you *know* you’re looking at the most dysfunctional and insane administration of all time.
Anna @ 19
So now we know where AIPAC stands on the deal with North Korea. It will be interesting to see what AIPAC democrats, such as Hiliary and Lieberman, have to say.
Anna — it’s hard to judge how much learning capability there is in this regime, and this one deal may prove the exception and not the rule. But my hope is that Condi Rice, who must also be concerned about her legacy, never mind Bush’s, must realize that to succeed, she has to function independent of the hardline people who have screwed up foreign policy so badly in the Middle East. Can she escape her own part in that? Everyone says she’s smart; let’s see if she’s shrewd enough.
Hotflash,
That’s why I asked. I have heard before that there may have been a rift for some time now. Most personalities like Bush want to have someone to blame for all of their problems and it wouldn’t surprise me if Bush will try to blame Cheney for all of his. And therefore, yes, poor Scooter.
Scarecrow @ 34
Umm… who is this “everyone” of whom you speak?
Rice is “responsible”, I think. Responsible for not doing her job.
She never looks very smart when she’s sitting on the hot seat.
Eli @
36
I took a survey, but I forgot to call you Eli. ;) But anyone who plays classical piano gets some credit.
Nice to see a so called success by this group make it to page 3.
Condi must understand the spoiled little rich boy needs the illusion of success in order to feed his ego. Cheney can’t feed that without bombing or torturing. It took her long enough but lets hope for a few more wedgie moments from Lauras favorite gal.
Hah!
First thing – looks like Condie wants to plant a big wet one on W.
And second – check out this picture from before the invasion where they were “deciding” whether or not to start the bombing.
I don’t know whether the photo was staged or not – probably was knowing these paranoic goofballs in the WH.
And btw, just to buttress your observations swopa, check out how all the attention is focused on Cheney rather than the pResident.
Anyway, check out this observation in the comments
DiFi Inc.? whodathunk…:
Bush as tool: If you can circumvent Cheney or other power players and get Dubya’s ear first, present an idea and make him think it was his idea, then you have success. This is a paraphrasing of what has been previously revealed inside information. Digby’s got a scenario like this that he put up today.
I am in the camp that says Bush = Empty Suit and Cheney is the power behind the throne. The above situation does not negate this. The Pres, obviously holds authority. Its just that he hasn’t got any ideas of his own.
Remember all that chatter not so long ago about running Rice for prez. Where in the world did that come from?
Now that the OVP knows she can play her own hardball, it will be fun to see who wins overall. You don’t cross Dick (did I just say that? ick)and keep your job. But Rice has a “special” relationship with her husb..err, President. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds in the longer term.
the, uhh, steamed Dr. Rice exhibited won ton disregard for the VP.
Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld AND Rice should be tried one day in the Hague.
john in sacramento — I couldn’t get that link to scroll up to the pic, but I could see the comment you noted.
ahhh punaise springs into a roll…)
I’d love to fry Condi’s rice.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 44
That was generated by the right wing noise machine. Probably Rove. It deflects both GOP racism and sexism in one shot. I’d love to see it happen, but it won’t.
someone let’s it all hang out at DKos:
Rot in Hell, LIEberSCUM!!!
Did you know that as an ardent conservative, the VP supports ’states rice’?
Scarecrow @ 48
Sorry, I meant scarecrow not swopa (doing 5 things at once)
Try this
Here’s the pic
hackworth @ 51
that would never fly below the Mace on Dick’s on lyin’.
punaise @ 52
I would consider it an honor if you would express your views wrt to Joe on one of my threads. Don’t hold back.
I don’t know if this is true, but I think read somewhere that Condi had an oil tanker named after her? I realize this sounds a bit far fetched.
john in sacramento — thanks for that pic; I’ll use that one soon.
Scarecrow @ 56
well then. ahem. *clears throat*: “my contempt for Joe Lieberman will never subside.”
thank you for your attention to this matter.
Has Christy seen this? It was posted over at War and Piece.
The American Bar Assoc. is having a conference on corruption -White Collar Crime in March. The DOJ Att.Gen. Alberto Makeit Gonzo is the featured speaker for the March 1 luncheon. It would be great if someone could attend this. It is in San Diego and Carol Lam will also present.
Ca-native @ 60
Featured speaker??? He should be a fucking *exhibit*.
punaise — I hope RenaRF realizes that her/his prospects for getting a job as Joe’s blog advisor are probably not good.
Clinton Gives War Critics New Answer on ’02 Vote
Yet antiwar anger has festered, and yesterday morning Mrs. Clinton rolled out a new response to those demanding contrition: She said she was willing to lose support from voters rather than make an apology she did not believe in.
“If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from,” Mrs. Clinton told an audience in Dover, N.H., in a veiled reference to two rivals for the nomination, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.
Eli @ 61
he’s going to sing the keynote song: “Let (legal b)Eagles Soar”
Scarecrow @ 62
yeah, a post like that probably doesn’t get you short-listed, eh?
punaise @ 65
Depends on which list you’re talking about.
Senator Clinton is pig-headed. Gore for ‘08!
Depends on which list you’re talking about.
the ship of state is listing.
…Mrs. Clinton … said she was willing to lose support from voters rather than make an apology she did not believe in.
show she’s take a principled stand to avoid taking stand on her unprincipled vote?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 57
Not farfetched at all.
Rice was a member of the Board of Directors of Chevron (which DID name an oil tanker “Condoleezza Rice” after her). It was later dubbed the “Altair Voyager” due to the controversy that related to her being appointed to the Bush WH and associated with an Administration so “tight” with the petrochemical barons. Rice headed Chevron’s Committee on Public Policy (i.e. how much to be paid for lobbying politicians) until she resigned in January 15, 2001 to become National Security Advisor.
Thus throughout the Fall 2000 Campaign she was a Director of Chevron.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
That’s subtle. There are those who didn’t vote and those who voted and regret how they voted. But she failed to mention a third group: those who voted right. And that’s the comparison she’s avoiding. The left will be all over her for another slippery reply.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 67
Sadly, I think that he won’t run.
cinnamonape @ 70
Too much.
Wow, Rice may have actually done something right. If it pissed off Bolton and Cheney there must be something decent in it.
I never thought I’d say this, but good for her.
Christy has a new thread upstairs and may Need your attention.
scarecrow said
Yep, It’s ideal Tweety feed.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 57
Right here
So will Condi be on Cheney’s “fair game” radar now that she’s bypassed the office of the real
VicePresidency? Wonder how much classified info he’s asked for on her for his COS David Addington to dig out now that good ole Scooter is gone? Wonder if he’s clipped and written all over this Sanger article with a big ole Bullseye drawn in red over her name and Hadley’s and put it in his safe? I bet Big Dick is just fuming over someone playing his game and stickin it to him…haha! But he’s been so preoccupied with the War in Iraqn. Can’t let a interdepartmental cat fight end with Condi being victorious now can he. He’s one vengeful spiteful bastard…just wait for the Cheney wrath. Wonder how many things on her and Hadley will be “leaked” and/or selectively declassified by him in order to”get the word out”, I hear Novak is available and comes with a Scooter Libby seal of approval. Oh boy…time to buy some more popcorn.So, how does all this intra-White House feuding impact the “Unitary Executive” thingy they’re always braggin about?
I mean, if America is going to put all of its eggs in one basket (”Unitary Executive”), shouldn’t we at least try to ensure that the eggs don’t roll around, crash into each other and end up all broken? Then we’ve got nuthin.
Then what?????
I mean, I didn’t think this whole tri-parte, checks-and-balances governmnet thing that the ole boys created a couple hundred years ago was really that much of a burden.
Some speculation and wondering aloud…
It looks like some within the admin have read the writing on the wall (which couldn’t be much clearer): Cheney and his cabal have largely hijacked/used junior and the WH from the start; this cabal itself is not only out of control but is itself splintering, and it threatens to sink not just the admin but the entire party (and perhaps even their own nefarious plans, not to mention legacies or egos) for years to come. Look at how Waas’ piece illustrates that Cheney’s plan/plot/strategy wrt leaks effectively brought down his own right hand man.
In the daily news, anyone can see that all paths are pointing to Cheney in Plamegate.
Cheney is routinely caricaturized as a Darth Vader type; no one needs to even explain it anymore.
When even Chris Matthews is catching on that Cheney was the mastermind behind the Wilson smear, the Plame outing, and the whole effort to deceive the country into war – and when he hintingly and sometimes accusingly says as much every day on teevee – the admin must be getting restless.
So “shrewd” admin members are moving their chess pieces and waging their bets against Cheney. Bush included. Right after the week in which Armitage’s testimony reveals “Condi doesn’t like being in the hot spot” – and with David Schuster spelling that out clearly for the viewing public all week long – Condi pulls a little “f-you” on Dick C (and maybe Dick A, too). Junior decides he’d rather make his bed with Condi, so to speak,, and makes the rare chastisement of Bolton (and the Cheney cabal by extension).
Those who may have been terrified to cross Cheney before may have found some leverage in the pounding Cheney’s taken in the Plame trial.
petedownunder @
72
dammit:
to heck with that. draft Gore anyway.
I think Cheney is a puppetmaster, but I really think Bush must be held accountable.
I think his entire plan is like that old SNL episode where Phil Hartman is playing Reagan as a senile old doofus in public but behind the scenes is on top of everything.
He’s cunning that way
Remember how Clinton said he wasn’t stupid? Or something like that.
“my too sense” posted something similar to what I was about to say: if Scarecrow’s analysis is correct, and if the FDL analysis of the VP’s office from the Libby trial is also correct, then the Vice President will not tolerate this. If he can’t sabotage the agreement, he will spend the rest of his term trying to get rid of Secretary Rice, or at least marginalizing her the way Colin Powell was.
And don’t bother speculating about Bush asking for Cheney’s resignation. The VP, like the President, is a constitutional officer elected by the electoral college, and the President cannot “fire” him. He can only be removed from office by his own choice or by impeachment. I have a life-size picture of Mr. Cheney voluntarily giving up the last true power he’ll possess in his lifetime because George W. Bush decided he likes Condi Rice better now.
Mr. Cheney is the VP until he chooses otherwise, or until the Senate removes him from office, or until Jan 20, 2009 – whichever comes first. He’s in the office and if this analysis is all correct, he’s going to use that remaining two years to take revenge upon Sec. Rice and, if necessary and possible, remove her from power that threatens his own.
At the very least? Republican gossip of Condi Rice running for president is now history. The neocons will neither forgive nor forget, and they’re too much of the party base to win without.
john in sac above:
Of course. If I ever allude to Cheney’s control or puppeteering, it is never to absolve Bush of anything, in any way, ever. That’s a given. Bush, Condi, Hadley, Rummy, Powell, Gonzales (and on and on)… all of them have enough blood on their hands that they should all be on trial in the Hague for countless crimes against humanity. But I do think there are varying degrees of control, complicity, and especially intent. With Iran, for instance, it might be Bush’s intent to drum up an invasion based on some messianic, self-delusional outlook that it really is his job to “transform” or “bring democracy” to the middle east (Sy Hersch has reported on this fervor of his more than once); but with Cheney and the neo-cons it seems always about utter imperial hegemonic power and control. Both are catastrophic and criminal, but they are different and reflect different pathologies.
my too sense, Fiyero, Matt — all insightful comments. It’s hard to know what Cheney might do next. My own suspicion is that he can afford to let Condi get a “win” in North Korea, and use it to lift Bush’ ratings, while still holding a tight grip on Middle East policy. The lack of any positive statements by Condi or the WH on the unity government in Palestine is a bad sign, I think. The US keeps making unrealistic, one-sided demands on Hamas. If the test is, you must denounce violence as a state tactic, then Israel and the US itself would be disqualified. But of course we never apply that standard to ourselves.
Scarecrow @
18
Maybe it was this chart at MotherJones?
LindaR @
25
Yeah. Unfortunately, they have earned the second reaction, with loan shark interest. It’s not cynicism when evaluating them, it’s just prudence.
prostratedragon @
86
That’s a very helpful chart for the Feith role; the one I recall was in the NYT?? It was about a year ago that I saw it.
#80 Flyero Chris Matthews (you should watch his show, you would be surprised)has been hammering Cheney and the right wing radicals for a very long time.
I predict Cheney will resign very soon for health reasons…..it is coming
I’d like to propose “Cheney’s Black Government”.
Hidden government is a term used by Sufis to describe how the world works when most people do the right thing.
Fiyero @
84
Yea, I vacillate on W’s reasons for his foreign policy between being just plain avarice or messianic.
Either way it’s frightening
scarecrow 85:
Agreed, especially wrt Cheney and N Korea. From a geopolitical power point of view, I don’t think Cheney’s guys are nearly as invested in N. Korea as they are in the middle east; what upsets them more is not the actual agreement but the end-run around them and the holes it exposed in their vetting process for policy.
As for the larger point about the U.S.’s double-standards (exactly right), well, that’s sort of a big part of the whole problem right there.
That’s a very helpful chart for the Feith role; the one I recall was in the NYT?? It was about a year ago that I saw it.
Hmmm, I recall another one somewhere, too. Will drop it by if I can find it.
Eli @ 32
Condi must swallow
scarecrow @ 85
I agree with you about Cheney being more interested in the ME and perhaps he is willing to give her a pass. NOt saying he won’t assign some underling to muck up the works or follow up on this little “junket” agreement of hers. I agree he won’t forget this little usurpation attempt of hers.
Plus if I am not mistaken didn’t someone recently admit or maybe Condi herself said that NK and Iran were only added as afterthoughts into the axis of evil speeches because they couldn’t just have Iraq as it would be too obvious (as opposed to partly obvious)that 2003 was The Year of Iraq. Plus we all know that from another neocon Cheney prototype in the likes of Mr. Hannah that 2007 is The Year Of Iran…so Cheney definitely has other priorities right now. But after witnessing just how obsessed Cheney is in following the media stories about this administration from Wilson-Plame Libby trial, I say this story most likely is a clip and safe keeper for him and I’m sure some tasks have been assigned to Addington to investigate and get back to him on this.
“It’s hard to know what Cheney might do next.”
I know. He’s coming to Australia this week. If you like we can attack him with cane toads.
So now we gotta like Rice? No effing way.
As others have noted, all she did was redo the Clinton deal they nixed when bush was installed. Ms. Duckman noticed that right off, and she doesn’t do blogs, figured it out just from watching teevee news.
And I agree whole heartedly with euzious’ comment no. 12,
For the benefit of future historians, the pushback against Bolton’s UN nomination [the first time] brought a lot of new people into the political process. Certain insiders started becoming truly alarmed at the way things were going, including the threat of war against Iran, and started getting the word out.
For those who think the Democrats aren’t doing anything if they’re not impeaching bush, this is an example of how it has to work. And this marginilizaytion of Bolton took how long, 3 years? But it worked, didn’t it!
ChristineK @ 96. Is Cheney visiting Queensland ?
It would be equally effective if someone could get Cheney to lick a cane toad.