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When I was 14, I had a crush on this guy named "Gator". He was probably twenty, twenty-one years old, kind of a redneck. He was dating this guy named J.T. who was friends with my friend Chris Brown, who was Bad News. (You know that friend who your mom never wanted you to hang out with? Why did that make them the only person in the whole world whose company you could tolerate?)
Anyway, Gator was fine, a sweet, slow-talking, boot-wearing, Irish-Italian behemoth who drove a '66 Mustang and liked to fish.
"Why do they call him 'Gator'?" I asked J.T. one Saturday afternoon when he wasn't around.
"Aw, you like him, doncha, honey?" said J.T., who was folding clothes or something if I recall correctly, "Well, when an alligator bites down on something, that's it. It ain't gon' let go for nothing. Well, Gator went through a bad phase where he liked to fight. He was still in the closet and he'd get all liquored up and start a fight and from what I hear, he would get hold of some poor sumbitch and not let go til he'd like to killed him."
Oh.
Glenn Greenwald went buck-wild on Frank Gaffney last night. Just slaughtered him. You can hear the whole three-part interview at Crooks and Liars and it's highly recommended listening. It could be the opening chapter in a long, beautiful book called "How to Utterly Destroy a NeoCon With Things You Probably Have Around the House".
From Greenwald's fancy new Salon digs:
Unlike many of these types of debates, I think this one is really worth listening to. Tough-guy warmongers love to run around spewing the language of Treason against political opponents, or beating their chests and issuing calls for vastly escalated slaughter in the form of sloganeering such as "the U.S. needs to start doing what needs to be done in the Middle East." But when challenged about these views or called upon to say explicitly what they mean, they very frequently lack the courage of their convictions, fearfully running away from the clear meaning of what they said. From the start, because he was aggressively challenged (including by Colmes), that is what Gaffney did.
On several occasions, he lost control of himself, even using profanities. Aside from the entertainment value that provides, it illustrates an important point. Gaffney is a professional right-wing extremist. He has been in the Reagan administration, on every television and radio show for years, and is very well-funded by numerous neoconservative funding sources. The fact that he became so shrill and defensive and even frightened reveals that neocons know that America is turning against them and beginning to realize the destruction they have wrought and the culpability they possess for what they have done to our country.
Well, give yourself some credit, there, Glenn. You bit down and locked your jaw and tore his arm off at the shoulder. Of course he was frightened.
Can I call you "Gator" now?
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How ’bout “Fitz”?
Close, but no Fitz.
Howdy!
Is this thing on?
Coulda had it…
Whaddup TRex?
What’s up w/ your crush on a redneck gator? That can’t be cool.
Not the mention the fact that you live in Athens with the rest of the Dawgs.
Nice takedown, again. Put Hannity in the nutcrusher for us, please.
well, theropad, the lautsprechers here in deutschland seem to be pumping out the alligator bass.
mmmm….the taste of well-marinated neocon flesh….
conniptionfit @ 5
It’s schadenfreudelicious!
ewwww, but then i’ve heard neocon flesh tastes like chickenhawk.
‘an I just have to say TRex, at the risk of sounding like a star-f*cker, I wait with baited breath and un- supressed glee for your every post!
Off, maybe?
Sorry about that that. As I said to an Anglo co-worker today, I work so hard at making my english acceptible that I’ve turned into this annoying smarmy proofchecker. Spank me.
We have so much talent. Occasionally it boggles.
conniptionfit @
9
Aw, that’s so sweet. Well, I have one more to do tonight. And I don’t even know what I’m going to write about yet.
…of course I meant “acceptable”.
phoque.
Gator pride
I have a blogcrush on Glenn Greenwald. Swoon :)
New unit of Measurement: RUSSERTS
That is the number of years Tim Russerts would have to work to equal a sum of money.
For instance, so far $10 Billion is unaccounted for in Iraq. That would equal 2000 Russerts ($5 Million per year).
So Timmeh would have to work the next 2000 years and give all his salary to Uncle Sam to make up for the stolen money. So far.
I absolutely love alligators. I used to live with them in the bayous and swamps of north central Florida. Up around G’ville.
OT- TRex- I thought I heard Rorhbacher call Iraqis “goons” on an NPR report (was driving thru traffic). Did you hear this?
TRex, tonite in a small hip bar in Remscheid, a 19 year old internet junkie comes up to me to kvatsch about amurka. He says that the Bush family is traced back to its roots in a small Rheinische (near the river Rhein) town about 35 km from here. He says when whoever first came to amurka, they dropped the C from Busch. Is there anything to this?
colmes actually challenged someone? Seriously?
(Yes, I left his name uncapitalized in homage to the future Senator from Minnesota)
Could someone please explain why Alan Colmes is such a fucking attack dog here and lies down and plays dead on Faux TV?
Crazy Horse, it’s four in the morning where you are!
Gators drag their prey downto the bottom of the swamp. They snag under a log or roots or soemthing. Then they tear them apart by clamping on and start rolling over to break then to bite-size chunks. They can’t chew, just rip and swallow, rip and swallow, rip and swallow.
I listened to most the interview. Gaffney weren’t nuthin’ but a hunk a meat. Now he is gator poop.
Oh jeez – this is going to take me all night to figure out.
Pectopah @ 20
Yup, Colmes showed some huevos! Gaffney was set up good.
Pectopah @ 22
Yeah, the indian elders always joke that’s it’s not my horse who’s crazy. But when you come back from four hours of scintillating conversation with NRW’s best and brightest, you can’t just gotobed. Especially if you almost never get a chance to participate in one of TRex’s profisnark. Geht’s dir gut?
TRex — Cleanup in aisles #174-179, Flying Monkeys thread.
I do not want to condemn the folks in CT. for how they voted in the last election. I do not see how condemnation serves any purpose.
So, after 4 years of silence, Kristol thinks the Democrats should be silent for another Friedmann. Already been there.
Phoenix Woman @ 27
Yup, Trex she is correct. Get out the bucket and mop, there is crap on the floor. Probably gator poop.
Pectopah @ 16
Hmmm.
“My student loans will set me back less than one-tenth of one Russert including interest.”
You’re right. I feel better now.
Pectopah @ 29
Gawd, I hate the sound of his whinny voice. He is always so predictable that any talk show can just show clips of him from previous shows. He doesn’t need to show up.
Crazy Horse @ 26
Alles gut, aber bei mir es ist nicht so spaet. Gute nacht und schlaft gut, Veruckte Pferd.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 28
My contempt for people who voted for Joe LIEberman knows no bounds.
Does that work for you?
Anything noteworthy in todays Friday News Dump?
Suzanne @ 35
Gotta go check the White House Outhouse.
EvilDrPuma @ 31
And that’s a lot of Russert Watches (no, not a time piece).
We have a gator at work that lives in the pond out back. We feed the fishes bread and then the gator dines.
Bill Maher will be on tonite. I am so ready for that show.
ccmask @ 38
It would probably like a fat, juicy Republican and of those there are no shortages.
Maher Roolz! Just pleez no more Coulter!
Suzanne @ 35
Pope ratzinger today denied that TRex was really a pope, adding that no pope would hang out with gators. several Vatican’t spokespopes hinted that jeezuz never fought with alligators, much less ate them.
Greenwald ! Bring it !!!
I knew he could write. I had no idea he could throw down live with that effect.
Who were the two Democrats that voted against the resolution and why? Did they use their 5 minutes or not.
Crazy Horse Roolz!
Feeding a Coulter to the gator could be consider cruelty to animals. It’s the bones you see, get caught in teh throat.
Not Friday News Dump per se, but I always find it entertaining to see a bozo who couldn’t keep his own p*n*s within the limits of a monogamous partnership tell the rest of us not to fool around at all.
…mmmm..crunchy Coulter…
Suzanne @ 35
Gordon Liddy today announced he is not plea bargaining with the special prosecutor, insisting that he’s a different person.
Crazy Horse @ 42
I’ll take that to mean Steve Irwin won’t be beatified any time soon.
ewww. All Mcain has to do is stand there and let them look at him
conniptionfit @ 48
Only if the gator needs to go on a non-fat diet.
AZ Matt @ 46
A Coulter. Sounds like a new unit of measure. Greenwald’s devasting retorts decimated a Coulter of pundits.
Muzzy @ 43
Yeah! There are many (like Krugman, for example) who are great writers, but think at writing speed, and can’t hold their own in a wingnut fight, sadly. I’m glad to know Glenn is so multitalented.
Pectopah @ 53
Ya, a Coulter is kind of like a cup.
A unit of Coulter= 3.9 lbs of vomit
Speaking of GOP campaign follies…
Well, Newton, if
I were you…
conniptionfit @ 56
It is good to be precise!
AZ Matt @ 40
My coworker is a big gop. But I couldn’t do that to the gator.
AZ Matt @ 55
So you propose a volume of measure. How about the size of a vacuum. Like the voluminous vacuum between her ears.
conniptionfit
Just how did you arrive at 3.9 lbs? Inquiring minds want to know…
ccmask @ 59
CC, You are so kind hearted.
You know what I was thinking about a little while ago? The Lieberman sunset commercial. Remember how funny that was? Very vi*graesque.
Crazy Horse @ 42
Hey, TRex, here ya go.
Pectopah -
That would require a physicist to figure out, someone who know about dark matter.
ccmask @ 63
I thought it was more of a Masengill thing, if you catch my drift.
What is it about neocons and their Pentagon enablers and PowerPoint? Is it the cryptic bullet points that fog the mind and stop rational thought dead in its tracks? The confusing graphic style made up of what Edward Tufte calls “chartjunk”? The appearance of meaningful discourse without any real substance, facilitating groupthink like the mass hypnosis that took us into Iraq? In hands of CentCom, PowerPoint doesn’t do war planning any better than it does rocket science. Tufte’s famous essay, “PowerPoint Does Rocket Science,” makes a strong case that the cognitive style of PowerPoint contributed to NASA’s failure to properly diagnosis what was wrong with space shuttle Columbia before its disastrous reentry. PowerPoint in the hands of Rumsfeld’s military technocrats seems to have had an equally stupefying effect on rational thought.
EvilDrPuma @ 57
Newtie is so transparent. He’s previously hinted that he won’t decide before September, so he’s smugly declaring that everyone who starts earlier than that is “stupid.” Not to mention is “I only run if people are asking me to, hint, hint!“
Man, I hope he runs. All the wingnuts who are disappointed that the frontrunners aren’t “conservative enough” will flock to him, and normal people will all remember what an asshole he was. And he’s the last person before ‘06 that the Democrats successfully made the focus of an election (”Gingrich Republicans.”)
EvilDrPuma @ 66
Yes, I do.
TRex @ 7
World class – fabulous – kudos – incredible – a new concept for the ages.
TRex rules!
There seems to be a glitch in our trying to close out the “flying” thread, and delete those comments. Trying for ~20 mins. NOTED! We are working on it!
From The Raw Story:
http://www.rawstory.com//news/….._0216.html
He should be gator poop.
Suzanne @
35
The Newyorican Times is reporting today that the rift between LimoNaid vice president Chainey and Dogfirelake blogger Jane Hamsher seems to be surging, according to several unnamed unknowns. “I haven’t met with her since Prague, and regarding the reputed trial, she can sit on her f*cking ass,” said the former vice president.
“That’s where i always sit, you (*^%E(&(,” said Ms. Hamsher demurrrly. She added that Tuesday’s site traffic would show the mood of the country, which several observers have described as “righteously pissed.”
AP reports that Ms. Hamsher actually blogs for windcatpond.
AZ Matt @ 72
Seems to me that he’s a fine Republican…an utter sleazebag looking to line his own pockets with no regard for ordinary ethics or basic decency.
The Raw Story has this tidbit too:
http://www.rawstory.com//news/….._0216.html
Rudy “I’m gonna announce I’m running soon” Guilianni still has announced he’s running though, has he? Once he announces he is going to run, I imagine the biggest question on the campaign trail will be
Mr. Prez-elect, “What happened to WTC-7?”
AZ Matt @ 75
It defies reason that I should even be able to ask a question like this with a straight face, but…does anybody in the AG’s office actually know what is contained in federal law?
That is too funny, Crazy Horse. See ya upstairs.
EvilDrPuma @ 77
They don’t care. Evil in the worst way.
I noticed that Gaffney spoke more slowly as the discussion progressed. Trying to run out the clock? Or perhaps he just needed the pauses to mop the sweat streaming from his brow.
Suzanne@61-
pulled it outta my ass, just like coulter!
he fu&^%ng skewered Gaffney…weeeee!
I think we need a unit to describe the situation… one that sort of puts a ratio on the neo-con tendency to inflate themselves and their, ahem, “ideas,” compared to reality.
Say, the “Gaffney” would be on a log scale. One Gaffney would be ten instances of bullshit to one instance of truth. Two Gaffneys would be one hundred parts bullshit to one part truth. Three Gaffneys, a thousand parts BS to one part truth, etc., etc.
5 Gaffneys=1 Lieberman
6 Gaffneys=1 Snow
7 Gaffneys=1 Rove
8 Gaffneys=1 Gingrich
10 Gaffneys=1 Cheney
Etc., etc., etc.
Crazy Horse,
He says that the Bush family is traced back to its roots in a small Rheinische (near the river Rhein) town about 35 km from here. He says when whoever first came to amurka, they dropped the C from Busch.
Check out “Bush family” on Wikipedia. It looks like the immigrant Bush was a Puritan. The first named one shows up around 1700, but they had probably been around for a while. They moved to NY, NJ and OH over the years, a standard Puritan migration pattern. The Puritans were largely from East Anglia, northeast of London. The best source for the culture is “Albion’s Seed” by David Hackett Fisher.
If you read some human population genetics, you’ll see that the paperwork on human ancestry has a high um error rate, so beyond a certain point genealogy is just a form of entertainment or status-seeking.
As a matter of curiosity I checked out some of my family’s ancestry claims on the internet. This is so easy that it probably destroys a lot of the status value of genealogy. Most of them were rednecks in the original Covenenter sense (religious dissidents from the Borderlands who wore a red cloth around their necks). One branch were Virginia gentry and related to some famous people in English history, even some royalty. I was hoping for a connection to Henry II, England’s best King, but came up with Henry III, England’s best Queen.
Umm, suspicions confirmed. ThinkProgress via digby.
You can just picture the closed-door classroom sessions:
“OK, now, fellow Republicans, repeat after me: ‘Em-bold-en.’”
“Embolden.”
“That’s right, ‘em-bold-en.’ Work it into every conversation. Those librulls are emboldenin’ the em-e-ny.”
It’s time for correctly thinking people to point out the fact that four years of war mistakes, misrepresentations, misappropriations and even misrememberings are what has emboldened the enemy. If the administration’s decisions and tactics had been guided by truth and wisdom, we would not be in the position we’re in now.
So, again, no more threatening those brave enough to say “Enough, Mr. President, of your error-filled arrogance.”
It is not those who speak out for a change who should be threatened with the consequences; we are, in fact, already living the consequences.
Roger Bigod,
Henry III was Henry II’s grandson (via ‘good’ King John (heh)). Wassamatta, your geneology ark crashed & burned in the 13th century?
Madison guy 67 WI?
EvilDrPuma @
47
Gosh, I was wondering why they didn’t ask Newt to speak about premarital abstinance and faithfulness in marriage.
When will Giuliani appear?..explaining how his first marriage to his second cousin was annulled because, well……just because.
So kids! Just get them “trial marriages” just like they have in Iran and Saudi Arabia…you CAN switch horses in the middle of the stream (or in Santorum’s case…dogs).
AZ Matt @
46
I think only coprophagous animals would find Coulter edible.
ccmask @
76
There is that, and wondering whether McCain will run commercials of Rudy in drag. That ought to go over real well down south.
John Casey,
I was just quoting the genealogy site. I wanted them to mention Henry II, “the best King tha’ ever wert”, but they had the drama queen, Henry III. But you’re right on the lineage.
My favorite relative was an 18th Cent mercenary who had to get out of Scotland in a hurry because his cousin, an Earl, led the invading force of a Stuart Pretender, after which he was no longer an Earl and the family no longer property owners. The fugitive fought for Spain, then took a better offer from Russia. Then he had to get out of Russia because the Empress got the hots for him and he didn’t like the prospects of being an Imperial boy toy. He wound up as a Field Marshall for Frederick the Great, who paid him the ultimate compliment of letting him choose art for the palace. An exciting life, but not, I think, a good role model.
I’m still trying to parse this bunch of nonsense from Gaffney (aprox quote below) and WHO exactly he’s talking about – Since the folks most undermining and endangering our troops are the bAdmin by STILL Not providing them Body armour and putting them in the middle of a self-perpetuating civil war…and who’s responsible for the “impedance of people who have the responsibilities of guiding our national security from challenging assessments and analyses” but those that cherry-pick info and avoid the unfounded/debunked parts:
“Behavior, not debate, but behavior that I believe is contributing to two things:
One, the impedance of people who have the responsibilities of guiding our national security from challenging assessments and analyses that are now widely regarded to have been wrong on a number of different counts – I think that is a very pernicious step and one that would have grave consequences over time
To the extent that we’re gonna cite Lincoln, it happen that shortly before Gettysburg A Lincoln wrote in a letter, he was talking at some length about the irony of having to punish a soldier who deserts and leaving untouched people who are agitators who are encouraging him to abandon his post. And I think he says that this is a case to silence the agitators and save the boy is not only constitutional but all a great mercy.
Now the truth of the matter is in a time of war we have, and as this great pres put it we have and this sis a direct quote we have – this great pres recognized that those who would weaken the country who would undermine the military should be silenced.”
It’s about time that this chancre of a human being, this Frank Ganfney – prurient pudendum of the reckless right – was publicly castrated. Thanks Glenn for volunteering for this nasty but necessary piece of surgery.
And then he beat Gaffney over the head with it, repeatedly. It was mighty fine listening, I can tell you.
Glenn should be the voice of the Democratic party on MSM from this point forward. He was amazing.
Much as I like Greewald, I have to disagree with you. Colmes did a decent job and Greenwald relied entirely too much on the fact that the public is unhappy with the right-wing. When he did correct Gaffney, he did so rather weakly and unclearly. If he is a gator, I am left unafraid of gators.
Why is it that when Gaffney talks overtop of Greenwald, Gaffney is perfectly audible and Greenwald sounds muted? Is that the way it sounded on air? Gaffney was able to effectively mute Greenwald on several occasions because of this. I am listening on a laptop, but if this is how it sounded over the radio, we need to address it.
Polls do not make a compelling arguement in these debates. In fact they leave you sounding as if the facts are not on your side. The fact that the people don’t believe in one side or the other is not proof that either side is right or wrong. That time would have been better spent repeating an earlier point or better yet, actually refuting Gaffney’s claims.
I listened to the discussion, and Gaffney is given an amazing amount of time to speak – probably 75% of the airspace. In that time, he is allowed to continue to hold specious opinions and quote fake evidence. It certainly cements for me that Gaffney is dangerous, untrustworthy and utterly unamerican. But Gaffney still cited enough unchallenged lies — like what the Duelfer Report claimed about CW and BW capabilities — that there will still be people who share his opinion.
I want to hear a debate with roughly equal time — a truly deep and thorough discussion. The Gaffneys and Feiths of this country need to be completely exposed and never relied upon again. Only then will we be able to come to terms with what we have become in this country.
Listen to the Hadley tape if you want to be driven insane by more lies. Hadley is such a dangerous and compulsive liar. He seriously needs to be locked up before he and Feith do any more hard to any one else. He actually said “Saddam Hussein had WMD program and planned to ramp them up and use them on the U.S.” This guy is insane. The facts just do not matter to the neo-cons, they create their own to fit their agenda. LOCK THEM UP “faster please”
Although he did make one comment that I agreeswith. He said that people should be “held accountable for the consequences” of their actions.
Feith and all of the other participants and liars that created, cherry picked and dessiminated false pre-war intelligence should be held ACCOUNTABLE. Feith did not challenge the CIA’s intelligence he shut down the appropriate intelligence pipeline and created one that fit the regime change agenda of the PNAC and “The Clean (bloody) Break” The New STrategy for Securing the REalm. The agenda of the Likudniks.
They flat out ignored and trumped the normal process for intelligence.
They should be thrown out of government, and thrown into jail. The direct consequence of their actions and lies is that hundreds of thousands of people are dead and injured.
Feith, Hadley. Ledeen, Cheney are very dangerous to our countries National security. They have proven themselves to be enemies of our nation.
Fr33d0m @ 96
Gaffney persisted in talking over Greenwald repeating loudly “you don’t have the facts” several times. At this point the moderator should have told him to shut up. Greenwald did not interrupt him. Gaffney lied through his teeth saying “I,m quoting I,m citing the Duelfer report at this very moment” Gaffney went onto say as if he was reading his statement directly from the report that “Saddam had WMD’s and planned to ramp them up and use them on the U.S.” Gaffeney is so full of shit he is rotting from the inside.
Go read the Duelfer report…there was no evidence what so ever that Iraq was in “active production” of nuclear,biological and chemical weapons.
Hadley should be prosecuted as a war criminal!
Sorry Gaffney well Hadley too!
I’m with #96, #97, and #99.
This is not the first time I’ve seen some cry of tiumphalism for the left in media debate, only to be surprised by the actual content. Colmes let Gaffney control the debate completely, from whining about more time and receiving it, to the length of time he took to make some random point.
Glenn’s call to public opinion is a truth about why these guys keep up the sound bites, and make up quotes, but that’s just one point. And it didn’t bear repeating as the answer to every point Gaffney made.
Left on the table were the allegations about the Darfur report, which should have been addressed as C&L did in their intro to the audio. Left on the table was the false alternative of invasion or Saddam attacks America (leaving out containment, inspection, and the fact that he didn’t have anything under those conditions).
It wasn’t a bad effort, but in this case, I don’t see Gaffney losing the debate.