
Let me start by saying...look, it's Marcy and Jane in the NYTimes. After all of the work we have put into covering the Libby case, it is lovely to see a bit of recognition of the effort, I have to say, from some of the corporate media types we've worked alongside throughout the trial coverage. I know that I enjoyed getting to know a number of the folks in the media room -- and having them realize that not only were we serious about our trial coverage, but that we had done ALL of the work to know the details, the facts, the intricate interrelationships of the players, and that we'd been covering tis story for years before we ever got to the courthouse. (I mean, honestly, Marcy is a human encyclopedia about this case after all the work she did on Anatomy of Deceit, and having her in the courthouse all by itself has been fantastic.)
This bit is my favorite part:
Sheldon L. Snook, the court official in charge of the news media, said the decision to admit bloggers — 5 to 10 of about 100 reporters present on busy trial days — has worked out well.“It seems they can provide legal analysis and a level of detail that might not be of interest to the general public but certainly has an audience,” Mr. Snook said.
Even as they exploit the newest technologies, the Libby trial bloggers are a throwback to a journalistic style of decades ago, when many reporters made no pretense of political neutrality. Compared with the sober, neutral drudges of the establishment press, the bloggers are class clowns and crusaders, satirists and scolds.
For the record, Judge Walton's entire staff and all the folks at the courthouse have been wonderful throughout the entire process. From the first day forward, our whole team of bloggers were treated like every other professional covering the case -- there was no distinction made, no patronizing attitude, just the same treatment for all of us. The amount of work that has gone into covering this case has been astronomical -- the live blogging, the courtroom observations, the late night analysis, all the IMs and phone calls to cross-check details -- you name it. But so worth it, still, to get the entire story out and not just blurbs and bits.
And I cannot thank Judge Walton and his staff enough for giving us this opportunity. Truly.
One correction, though: the MBA did NOT negotiate our media passes. We have been working on getting passes for this trial from the moment Libby was indicted. Jane and I made calls to the courthouse, e-mailed, wrote letters, and worked on getting credentialed from very early on. To emphasize our commitment to doing serious coverage, we enlisted the help of Arianna, whose Huffington Post name was more recognizable than FDL to folks not familiar with how blogs had been covering this investigation. But the gaining of our three media passes? That was OUR work. And it was our consistent work on this case -- for years -- that got us the passes, and not anyone from the outside. I don't want to get into a pissing contest with some other blog group because, frankly, I've got better things to do with my time this morning, but I wanted to be clear on that point -- we worked our butts off to get credentialed for this case, and we were credentialed early. Mr. Shane may have misunderstood on that point, so I wanted to make that perfectly clear.
There was also a great article about Jane earlier in USNews -- some of you may have missed it, so I wanted to link it up this morning. Thought you guys would get a kick out of this.
And now onto the legal minutiae for today...
There will likely be a legal haggle over the various proposed jury instructions in the Libby case today. So I wanted to give everyone a sort of baseline knowledge about just what jury instructions are -- and why the haggle over them is so important to attorneys on both sides of the case.
Essentially a "jury instruction" is just what it sounds like: guidance, in the form of a written instruction, as to the definitions, the law, and the reasoning that a jury must use in looking at all of the testimony, the evidence and the information that has been presented in a particular case. These instructions are a guidebook, of sorts, for the jury in navigating the entire case and in evaluating all of the information that they will have seen and heard from both sides throughout the trial.
Information such as what can or cannot be considered as evidence in the case. For example, direct testimony from a witness about something that witness said or thought is evidence. The fact that the defendant did or did not testify is not.
There is an art to crafting jury instructions -- as a practicing attorney, I found it to be quite an intellectual challenge, actually, to come up with jury instructions that explained the law in lay terms for the jury, and yet somehow enabled me to use the judge to argue my viewpoint of the case when he read off my instruction. Being able to draft good, clear and legally accurate jury instructions which still get your point across to the jury is a tough thing to do -- to be able to do so where you accurately portray the law and yet also get your point across to the jury with your words is even more difficult. (Which, frankly, is why I found working on them and doing them well quite satisfying.)
In this case, both the government and the defense will have already submitted proposed jury instructions to the judge, complete with the draft of the instruction itself as you want it to be read, along with citations to supporting case law of prior cases that serve as the precedents on which your proposed instruction rests.
Judge Walton and his clerks will have read through these proposed instructions, will have gleaned the information out of them that they find persuasive and will have drafted a proposed set of jury instructions of their own that the judge will put forward as his first possibility for the jury to hear. And then the haggling will start from that foundation -- with both sides of the case arguing that their perspective on, say, the definition of "perjury" and the elements required to be proved in order to secure conviction is the true and accurate version of that particular point.
Sure, it sounds incredibly dull -- and the legal wonks in the audience can back me up on this -- jury instructions can make or break your case.
Once the instructions are set by the judge, a final copy will be given to the attorneys. And they will work from that for their summations to the jury. "The judge will tell you _______" is a fairly common phrase that you will hear on something like this. And, once the summations (or closing arguments) have finished, Judge Walton will then read these instructions to the jury and they will be given a copy of these instructions to take with them into the deliberation room while they debate the verdict of the Libby trial.
One of the tricks of writing a decent instruction is to do it in such a way that the intent of the law is clear, but that it is written in such a way that the jurors eyes don't glaze over in the hearing of it. It doesn't help if you put your jury to sleep while they are being instructed. Judge Walton has come across thus far as a fairly no nonsense judge -- and I'm looking forward to seeing how these jury instructions shape out in the final arguments today.
So -- any questions?
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FDL! Big traffic spike today!
F I T Z !!!
EPUed from the last thread, I thought the phrase “citizen journalist” was excellent. My hope is that the MSM learned a thing or two from the FDL dedication and coverage. I have learned everything about this case from here, Last Hurrah, and TalkLeft. I have learned NOTHING from the MSM—it’s all dry summaries with shallow analyses. Nina Totenberg on NPR completely missed how Fitz demolished Hannah with two short questions. So why listen to her?
Time to visit that PayPal button again…
Veritas78 — Thanks much. Appreciate the kind words. :)
I’m also going to post my epu from previous thread, on topic here;
I would like everyone to take specific note that the new york times when talking abut the live blogging of this case pointed out our counter parts think fitz’s case unraveled
I’ve made the point before, when me and my friends are watching a boxing match, no matter who is winning, which ever boxer we picked we thought their punches landed and their opponent’s punches were blocked.
I know we all believe the prosecution did a great job, the other side believes the defense was genius
I cross my fingers our interpretation of what transpired in this case is the more accurate
Nice articles. I’m glad you all are getting the attention you deserve. Keep up the good work.
What Christy does not note is that the story is on the front page, center of the paper, headline above the fold.
btw, gang, I’ll do a reminder in the morning for everyone but I’ll be doing Sam Seder’s show on Air America tomorrow morning at 9:15-ish ET and then doing Peter B. Collins tomorrow evening around 6:15-ish ET. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up, because I got scolded for not giving folks enough notice last week. *g*
jay at 7 — Thanks — I thought mentioning that would be a little too much bragging. *g*
I cross my fingers our interpretation of what transpired in this case is the more accurate
I honestly will not be upset if Libby walks. He lied in order to keep this story from coming out. The trial has brought out the story. The complicity and duplicity of the beltway media may get Libby off, but seeing it all exposed is what has been important.
John’s Neighbor Barbara at 6 — Thanks much! Do tell John “hi” for me if you see him today. :)
g’ morning! imagine that! NY TIMES!!
coffee’s ready…
Christy - Jury instructions are public court documents, right? They have been written probably hundreds or thousands of times in the US court system and Judge Walton’s court has access to those. Judge Walton himself might have written dozens of times. I can see it being 90% boiler plate and 10% customization for this case. Correct?
Great post,
Do you think Well’s explanation of why he didn’t call Libby and Cheney plausible, or just plain bullshit?
Jack
I think Jane and her movie producer friends should get together and buy movie rights to Ms Plame’s upcoming book. Wouldn’t that be a great thrill?
ecoast @ 15
I think they should produce the movie to miss wheels current book
This seems to be the correct address for NYTimes corrections. nytnews@nytimes.com
Cox’s attempt to claim FDL coverage should not be allowed to stand without comment.
ecoast at 13 — That’s correct. A lot of it wil be boilerplate language — that’s “stock” language for the non-legalese folks in the audience. Most judges who have been on the bench for a while have developed a preferred set of standard jury instructions for things like “how to conduct your deliberations” or “how to elect the jury foreperson” and such, and those will be what Judge Walton has in his initial draft. It’s the language on the elements of the charges in the indictment, the proof required, etc., that will be the haggle. As well as limiting instructions in this particular case about how certain pieces of evidence may or may not be considered, and about the classified information and Valerie Plame Wilson’s job status at the CIA, among other things.
Hi,
Just another shout out to you FDL’ers to say Great Job!
I followed everything until after the Timmeh testimoneh when I got mired in work for my yob and lost count of where I go. Would it be possible to have a separate page listing just the links/titles in the order of live blogging in court? I clicked on the link to the right for Libby Trial, but have to sort of wade through each post, latest first. Perhaps it’s something easy for one of your techies to do? Perhaps I don’t know what I’m talking about and should do the wading since you all have done the slogging??
Love to love youse.
Imus saying he’s gotten sucked into the Libby story and obsessing about it now.
So maybe he should come to the wellspring for authoritative facts and timeline!
Kudos to Jane and Christy and Marcy and everyone for your great reporting. Opinions…with the facts to back ‘em up. Gotta love it.
And major thanks to Judge Walton and his staff. Politics should be left outside the courtroom door…the fealty is to the law and the constitution, not political parties. They’ve served the country and this case well.
…or buy the movie rights to “Anatomy of Deceit!” Have Jane’s people call Marcie’s people…
I was on my way here but stopped by the NYT’s to check the headlines .. and there you where! Great story! Part of it does sound like Cox was the one who got you in (which ain’t the case) but other than that, Woo-Hoo! Way to go!
So, now do you suppose the lawyers and the judge have been burning the midnight oil on the instructions?
CHS,
What is the order of closing arguments? Who speaks last before Judge Walton delivers the jury instructions?
Thanks for this post; it’s very helpful.
Hi Christy, and I would like to chime in with everyone else in thanking all of you for a tremendous job well done. You all have good reason to be proud of your work.
My question is whether the haggling over the instructions will be held in open court, or will it go on behind the scenes?
Perris 16 - I like your idea better.
It can be a combo of Plame’s book, Marcy’s and live blog trial coverage from this site.
I can see it already getting into Oscars.
Veritas78 @ 21
Now that’s what I call “people power”.
oops, does that phrase date me?
Veritas78 @ 21
They should meet over coffee and cheese and salami. (the NYT’s photo)
Congrats on the NY Times article!
ecoast @ 25
it will be a trilogy of sorts
start with mrs. wilson’s book, part two will be miss wheeler’s book…someone sugest the epilog
Veritas78 @ 21
Either way, copyright EW and Swpoa’s live blogging lest ABC steal them and cast Brad Pitt as Scootie in a made for TV
mdocu-drama.Christy at 8 -
You may want to put up a box at a top corner of front page for all upcoming media appearances from you and Jane. You can also link to articles like today’s NYT piece, etc.
Easy to miss if you just bury it in the comments. Just a suggestion.
Congratulations to the entire FDL team for outstanding trial coverage.
And as a former PR maven, I must send kudos to Siun for placing that great story in the NY Times. Way to go girl.
dqueue at 23 — The government will present their summation first, then the defense, and then the government has a brief point for rebuttal. My understanding is that Zeidenberg will be doing the initial summation for the government, Wells will be closing for Libby, and then Fitzgerald will do the rebuttal — at least based on representations to the judge yesterday, although tactis are always subject to change between now and Tuesday when the summations will be given.
it will be a trilogy of sorts
start with mrs. wilson’s book, part two will be miss wheeler’s book…someone sugest the epilog
Perhaps Scooter’s book from the slammer could conclude the trilogy.
It’s time for a Pulitzer for blog sites and I nominate FDL.
Everyone - Make sure you e-mail the NYT’s article to someone to get it into the Most-viewed section. Free advertising and to get more people into the story.
It was great to see the NYTimes coverage on your site this morning. Your coverage has been wonderfully comprehensive.
corry342 @ 34
Perhaps Scooter’s book from the slammer could conclude the trilogy.
profits to go toward veterans benefits which have been removed by the people that put him up to exposing our covert assets
Woodhall at 24 — Some of it will be done in open court, because it has to be done on the record with a court reporter recording it for appeal purposes. The attorneys have to be able to present their full arguments on the facts and the law and judges try to do that in as transparent a way possible in open court, where there is any sort of dispute on something like this. And, yes, the jury instructions will be public — I’ll hopefully get a copy of them at some point today and will be able to pick through them and see if there’s anything out of the ordinary.
I gather the room where the press was held was very quiet during testimonies. But was there much conversation during breaks? Did you get any feeling for what the other press persons thought of the defense vs. prosecution?
You have all done a fantastic job. Thanks
WOW….FDL and Jane made the front page of the New York Times I discovered at breakfast when I read the paper. I think the MSM mightbe taking notice that the citizen reportors are doing THEIR job … and rather well.
Good on FDL… you guys are the best.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
when will we find out who are the alternates?
Christy - thank you very much for explaining what to expect here.
Perris - very good point made here. Someone (perhaps you) yesterday made the point that even though many people have complained about Jeralyn’s summary and predictions, we need to remember that we have been privy to a lot more information and legal back-n-forth than the jury has seen. While it seems to us that there is no reasonable doubt of Libby’s guilt in regards to these charges, we know more than the jury, and we are surely biased.
The jury instructions may shed light on how the jurors will need to view the case. We’d be smart to try to put on our impartial hats and see it from their eyes.
Oh, and big congrats to Jane & Marcy on the front page spread! This shows that FDL (everyone at the courthouse and those behind the scenes fact-checking and keeping this place hummin’) have made a huge impact on news as the world knows it.
Nuts, I EPU’d myself…
Rayne @ 284
Christy must have been posting as I was trying to write my comment and field a phone call. ;-)
I know it is nice to be recognized but it looks as if you are seeking validation from the NYT. That is a fools game. You are at least implicitly acknowledging that outlets like the NYT and WashPost are the gatekeepers for legitimate news and commentary. If anything, I had hoped you would have told the Times you did not need their stamp of approval and point out all the ways they have failed to adequately cover the story from the beginning. You are playing right into the hands of the media outlets who have failed so miserbly.
After the endless condescension from the MSM about those undisciplined, wild-eyed, foul-mouthed bloggers, it’s terrific to see the NYT doing a “Golly, those folks did a knock-up job. And they even have [GASP] degrees!”
Guess it was hard not to notice what incredible work you’ve all done. Bigtime congrats!
DMH at 45 — Um…hello?!? I thought it would be a nice read for everyone this morning. I don’t mean to pee on your cheerios or anything, but the work we have done on this stands on its own, thank you very much. It’s the acknowledgement from the corporate media that this is true that is amazing — because publicly they had been doing everything they could to avoid it until the last few days.
Frankly, handing them a carrot for getting their coverage right is as important as beating them upside the head when they get it wrong. So you’ll pardon me if (a) I wanted to give Jane and Marcy some well-earned kudos this morning and (b) if I also wanted to reward the NYTimes and USNews for being honest about some competing coverage since we’ve worked our asses off to get the facts — ALL the facts — into the corporate coverage of this story from the day we started digging into the investigation here at FDL.
DMH @ 45
This is more the NYT catching up to the fact that there are other ways of getting a story out to the public. I don’t see this as FDL asking anyone for validation.
Big OT –
I think I’m going to faint. I just heard Howie Kurtz tell David Burd on Washington Post Radio that Bush’s tale about Iran enabling the insurgents in Iraq and the status of Iran’s nuclear capabilities should all be taken with a huge grain of salt. He said he’s heard it all before, since all the stuff the BS administration told in the runup to the current war sounds similar and was all false, and why shouldn’t we be skeptical now?
Will wonders never cease?
DMH @ 45
Daily circulation for NY Times for 2006 (just print): 1,142,464
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
Any bit of Firedoglake coverage in the former paper of record, which takes away from the administration stenography of Iranian tailfin stencils is simply worth it. Imagine normal people deciding to Pull Up A Chair, and coming away changed. Perhaps wondering whatever happened to democracy in amurka and all.
DMH @ 45
I disagree completely.
The vast majority of people who get the news from traditional media sources think that blogs are simply unknowledgeable kids with an axe to grind. This story, while not 100% accurate, goes a long way to help the general public realize that some bloggers are very well educated, knowledgeable, and have an outstanding work ethic. They are willing to spend a lot of money out of their own pockets to get solid reporting. And, the article clearly acknowledges that FDL has the best coverage of trial details & transcript available, and MSM reporters often go to FDL for information & clarification.
I think this article is great for blogs, particularly FDL. Like it or not, when the NYT has a front page center story on how you’re doing a bang-up job (and lets face it, a lot of us at FDL have not been very kind to the NYT!), it has a huge impact to the general public.
I hope this will bring more traffic and much larger donations to FDL.
And on the heels of that article… better haul some extra bandwidth out of the pantry.
How much do you think the Judge will hamper the defense’s ability to raise the “faulty memory” and “too busy to remember” defenses now that Scooter has not testified through the jury instructions. I was under the impression that the Judge commented earlier that if Scooter did not testify, there would be no faulty memory defense.
The Judge has obviously backed off from that a bit now, but there have to be some limitations placed in the jury instructions so that the jury does not engage in sheer speculation. If I were Fitz, I’d be preparing a motion for a directed verdict on that defense as insufficiently supported by competent and admissible evidence.
Also, will there be instructions designed to blunt the defense’s obvious efforts to appeal for jury nullification? The scapegoat defense is just that now that there is no evidence to support Wells’ statements during Opening.
Finally, while I understand that the 5th Amendment precludes the Govt’ from using Libby’s failure to take the stand as any inference of guilt, why can’t they take promises made by the defense during Opening and show that no such evidence was ever provided by them at trial. It seems a mighty fine line to walk to me, but then again I am only a civil litigator.
FDL front and center coverage in the NYT is a well deserved recognition for the mega effort and dedication of our unique FDL team. Congratulations. I take great satisfaction in knowing MSM reporters lurk here to get the meat of the story. Citizen journalist may be giving journalism its good name back. Bravo.
As a matter of fact, I first discovered FDL a couple of years ago through an article in the NYObserver whose author confessed to be obsessed by Jane and Reddhead’s blog. At the time, it was a more intimate salon which to no one’s surprise just keeps on growing.
Sally @ 35
Couldn’t agree more; along with many others, I’ve been saying this for awhile.
Hey MSM folx, we know you’re reading this. Time to communicate with the Pulitzer Prize Committee… I’ll even make it easier for you to Do The Right Thing: http://www.pulitzer.org/ :)
((CHS & the Whole BlogCrew!!))
and extra hugs for
((((Jane))))
lina (50) — conversely, the NYT may have caught on that FireDogLake has a not-too-shabby daily readership, too. Add the other sponsors that helped to get the FireDogLake bloggers into the Prettyman Courthouse media room (Huffington Post, DailyKos) and there’s an equivalent circulation number that begins to rival NYT.
I read the NYT article as a kind of concession to the power of a few extremely curious, intensely motivated citizens to get to the truth — which a year or two ago would have seemed a highly unlikely outcome given NYT’s continued support of Judith Miller. Perhaps this was a kind of mea culpa…?
The NYT states:
“Even the Web-savvy may ask, Fire dog what? A collective of liberal bloggers, fueled by online donations and a fanatical devotion to the intricacies of the Libby case, Firedoglake has offered intensive trial coverage, using some six contributors in rotation.”
I would like the NYT to be as ‘fanatically devoted to the intricacies’ of many of their reporters’ work. Perhaps the US wouldn’t be in Iraq right now if they had been.
New York Times coverage is fantastic. Congratulations! And really, wouldn’t we all be just amazed if they hadn’t gotten something wrong?
twolf1@30
Copyright inheres with creation. However, FDL cannot copyright the trial transcript, since that is a public domain document, not an independant creation. The FDL commentary, though, yes, is the protected intellectual property of the creator. Or possibly of FDL, since I have not taken the time to notice whether or not Jane has asserted copyright in all original material posted to the site.
Um, you’ve strayed into my area of expertise here.
beth meacham — now that is way cool. I think I have to squirrel that fact away the next time I need to ask a copyright-related question…
I do wonder from time to time whether it would be helpful to have a small database of profiles on the mostly pseudonymous commenters here as to their skill sets, in case a consult on a post might be helpful. I don’t know that I’ve ever run into an FDL commenter who wasn’t eager and willing to provide assistance, and the wealth of resources the commenters/readers possess at this blog has been phenomenal.
HSans @ 58
Hmmm… ‘fanatically devoted to the intricacies’… isn’t this another way of saying, ‘dedicated to getting the facts right’ or ‘deeply concerned with the truth’?
Sure, the word ‘fanatically’ is somewhat perjorative in most contexts, as there are relatively few things that are actually worth being a fanatic about.
I happen to believe that being a fanatic about facts, truth, and ‘intricacies’ is an admirable and moral way to live one’s life.
Thank you firedoglake.
And to all newcomers, welcome! We look forward to getting to know you.
Christy Hardin Smith @
47
Well said, Redd!
OT but interesting:
One of the top stories on MSNBC.com this morning says that in the pre-Iraq war planning, Tommy Franks and others predicted that there would be only about 5,000 US troops in Iraq by December, 2006.
Share this one with your friends.
Iraq Plans forecast 5,000 GIs in 2006
Rayne @ 60
I’ve thought of that too. I truly believe that we can subvert the profit model of “paid experts”, and that might be the most valuable use of our collective talents.
If anything, FDL exemplifies that you can change the world in your “free” time.
perris @
29
“Curses, Foiled Again” Dick Cheney’s bio written from prison.
That’s the first time I read a story on the front page of the NYT that didn’t list “unknown sources” and “senior administration officials”.
Lucky for them. Great for us.
Rayne @ 60
If you build it, many will come! (including me, though prolly irrelevant) :)
PS — tnx again for the gabbly.com/firedoglake.com pointer
Re NYT coverage, it is not just Scott Shane’s article that is interesting. They placed it above fold in the center of page. That means the editors approved its being placed there.
Usually around 3 ot 4PM everyday, all the editors meet to do the layout for the frontpage for next day. Yesterday being a weekday, the full phalanx of editors must have been there and the article passed their approval for front page.
HSans @
58
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
– Upton Sinclair.
Re: the epilogue mentioned upthread…
Remember, we are far from done. The case in front of us, U.S. v. Libby, only addresses the charges under which I. Lewis Libby was indicted, 2 counts each of perjury and false statements, 1 count of obstruction. This case and its crime is not the one that unified many of us, the outing of Valerie Plame.
The real epilogue begins once the crime realized in a serious breach of our nation’s security has been fully prosecuted and the guilty punished. I only hope that the epilogue begins long before November 2008, before another president inherits the war and damages created and supported by this crime.
firedoglakers,
you have done a tremendous job in informing the public about the libby/cheney/media trial … i hope you will consider setting up one link box on your website with all the blogging, analysis, etc in one place so we don’t have to do endless backward searches …
barb in montana
I heard the new one dollar coins are coming out today. I wonder if there will be one for Bush, considering he was never elected?
Pardon the OT, but I just wanted to quickly say that
Christy Hardin Smith @ 47
… is a keeper. ROTFLOL & thx, ReddHedd!
This has been an unforgettable process. As we watched our democracy deteriote into a kingdom run by corporate gurus, democracy was doing what it does right here in a new forum. It has been validation for the truth and validity of democracy…it happens, and those who want control will work against it, but it rears it’s head to tell the truth. It is a natural inclination just as being led like sheep seems to be a natural inclination to the human species.
I am so grateful for this experience for the tireless work of Marcy, Christy, Jane and many others on this topic and many others near and dear to my heart. It is lonely in nebraska (where the aspens turn in October, not september) and really maddening to be surrounded by androids of republican followers. This place has been a respite of sanity for me. I felt that I might have truly gone insane seeing patterns of behavior and not having a way to access the truth, without these blogs. The truth was not easy to find for such a long time on these issues.
Thank you, thank you, the TRUTH is cornerstone to democracy and this site and Marcy have brought it.
OK, I went and looked. FDL does not post a copyright notice, meaning that by default the copyright in the posted material remains with the writer, and copyright in the material posted in the comments remains with the commenter. You own your words, as they say at the Well. This is smart, because it relieves FDL of responsibility for anything idiotic that might be posted.
RE the Placement of the NY Times article on the Front page and above the fold, which is really fantastic: It is worth noting that it comes right on the heels of Bill Keller’s trashing of Judy Judy Judy on Frontline Tuesday night. Speaking of Keller, I was impressed by him in that show in that he was the least defensive of all the big shots they interviewed, and that he didn’t take the stance of a victim re Miller’s bad reporting and the fact that they think that they blew it by going to bat for her re the GJ.
Change is afoot?
Rayne @
44
Shez — you out there this morning? We need to post the links you gave me, the partial directory of Libby-related live blog posts, depending on whether your site is up and ready for traffic or no. Give me a ping, launching my IM now.
ccmask @ 72
It will be made out of lead.
Juan Cole is a good read this morning too.
He’s toying with the question of the role of the black market in weapons in the Middle East.
Today’s sample:
Congratulations Jane, Christy, Marcy, and all the rest who have done such a great job on this trial and on FDL overall. Recognition of your effort by the NYT is just the icing on the cake and well deserved. I am really proud to be one of the fire pups. Thanks for a job superbly done.
AZ Matt (79) — is that a trial balloon?
Heh.
I just wanted to say how proud I am of the folks at FDL. I know the inspiration that you give me every day. I’m so happy to see the positive article in the NYT.
For a bunch of rabid lambs, you sure clean up well.
*xyz @
61
If you don’t mind me going all meta on you for a moment, this is actually a very cool thing. No reporter will ever be able to spend the time on this story that the FDL crew has. Too many stories.
But there will often be people out there who are willing to do so. Blogs then become complements to traditional journalism, as I think became apparent to some of the MSM folks at the trial. Josh Marshall’s work over at the various TPM venues is another example. Both Froomkin and Jay Rosen have pointed this out.
The silly comment above that says that it’s wrong to look to the NYT for validation has it exactly wrong. Nobody is looking for validation. What the left blogosphere is looking for is greater accuracy and depth of reporting in a more transparent environment.
The Libby coverage perfectly exemplifies how the blogosphere can extend and deepen news coverage, and make it more current and complete. No media outlet covered this story better than FDL. That the NYT recognized his is a sign of hope for the future.
Hey, did we see this? I don’t think I’ve seen it, but I was offline last night due to work demands.
Saying He Was Misled by Defense, Judge in Libby Case Puts Some Evidence Off-Limits - New York Times
Wow - great article in the Times. Really, it’s surprisingly good.
Congrats to all and thanks for all the hard work. We lurkers / 3x a day readers really appreciate it.
And the history of the name of this site? Is that true? I’ve always wondered, and I was certain is was some obscure literary reference I just wasn’t getting and was too shy to ask.
Cheers!
Robert Cox = bandwagon-jumper extraordinaire. It might be a bit harsh to call him a parasite, but his attitude in this and a few other episodes deserves it.
Rayne @ 82
He would finally be useful as a fishing weight maybe.
You guys are doing the job the NYT didn’t do. They are playing catch up and will likely try and to try and co-opt this “movement” (for lack of a better word) soon. I’ve seen this move too many times. I bet Donita Sparks knows what I’m getting at. For the cream of the liberal blogospheere now is a really important time. Its similar to the early 90’s when all the major labels came in and gobbled up all the amazing indepented bands and labels. Sometimes it worked out great (Sonic Youth comes to mind) and sometimes and was the end. Tread with care. Its out come the wolves time.
Not trying to be a bummer, you guys deserve the world. The last 2 years following this site has been a godsend. I get kind of protective that’s all! Be mindful!
I’m not too worried Jane and Donita have navigated this type scenario in the movie and music business before. They both did it amazingly well.
–The masters of the NYT’s…. don’t forget that Judy Miller was one. Its not all its cracked up to be (although sometimes its excellent).
As a temporarily unemployed trial lawyer, I have followed with both great appreciation and interest. To underscore the point about jury instructions, I was taught that the *first* thing to do in trial preparation is to draft proposed jury instructions, since my entire effort at trial is geared towards having the jury “answer” all the questions that follow the instructions–those questions would be the “veridct form”–in my favor.
Christy- One question about procedure. I have experience with a few judges who instruct the jury *prior* to closing arguments. (Usually its after) I thinks its a better way, as the jury has some framework for understanding the legal argument, and it allows the lawyers to point to particular instructions, without running afoul of the “only the judge can tell you what the law is” rules. What is Walton doing?
as far as the judges instructions to the jury;
we know the judge allowed evidence which was only admissable if libby was going to testify
can the judge so instuct the jury?
Eric at 90 — I also prefer the instructions prior to closings, frankly. But I’m not certain what Walton’s procedure is going to be — I don’t think he’s said, as yet. (although, to be honest, I was juggling The Peanut and reading the blogging at the end yesterday, so I may have missed that point…need to go back and check.) But I’m certain he’ll be talking about it this afternoon. They’ll start the haggle over jury instructions around 1:30 pm ET today. And I’m certain they’ll also discuss how the proceedings will unfold, because thats just the sort of thing judges like to line out in advance so there are no courtroom surprises at the end of trial.
On proper topic: how much discretion does the judge have to discuss and reiterate which bits of evidence and testimony are relevant as findings of fact, or as indicative only of opinion / state-of-mind?
(Though the English system provides the ancestors of US courtroom practice, they’re somewhat distant cousins now…)
Not at all. The fact that the NYT finds Firedoglake a story (with a very nice pic of Jane, btw) shwos just how desperate they are for relevance.
THE NEW YORK TIMES IS A LOUSEY NEWSPAPER AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
Gore Vidal made this clear eons ago. And does the name “Judith Miller” ring a bell? The NYTs dealings with this sub-par Sidney Falco are proof positive that they’ve learned nothing from their mistakes and have every intention of making them over and over again in the future. But the myth of the “newspapwer of record” goes on and on. So they pick up the salad tongs and gingerly approach Firedoglakers in the manner of first year anthropology students on a field trip to visit the cannibal tribes Tobias Schneebaum used to hang with in the Amazon.
Pinch recently said the whole sick show may not be around much longer in print form.
From his lips. . .
AZ Matt @ 79
It will be unique in several further ways.
1) As stated, this will be the first time that the likeness of an unelected pReznit will appear on the obverse side
2) For the first time, a representation of the United States Constitution (to which all federal officials and military personnel swear fealty before God and the nation) will be shown on the reverse
3) For the first time, the U.S. Mint will use the system first introduced on the Pacific island of Yap (compressed Google search: http://tinyurl.com/ypscqc) to facilitate easy carrying of the heavy new dollar coins… Each coin will sport a hole in the brainal area of the obverse and in the gutted area of the reverse.
Rayne @ 82
Or just a ballooning trial?
Just bought the book. Looking forward to it.
Interesting, I think that in England, as our law now stands,it would be possible to draw an inference from Scooter not testifying, because Team Libby had a go at Russert’s credibility. This may be wrong as my knowledge of trial law is sooo out of date. Of course, if that inference could be drawn, they wouldn’t have done it.
If Libby doesn’t walk, and I think he will, it will be because of Fitz’s questions to Hannah on two hour coffee breaks.
While you are being congratulated for the recognition, the other big difference from the MSM is that it feels as if we actually know you guys after the last couple of weeks. How am I going to live through the small hours when you are gone?
Chetnolian at 96 — Oh, we aren’t going anywhere. So feel free to stick around. There are way too many other avenues of corruption to cover within the Beltway.
I’d like to thank Firedoglake for the wonderful coverage of the Libby trial. Well done! I didn’t have the time to read about the trial line by line, but I craved those end-of-the-day summaries. You deserved that great story in the NYT.
Christy, I know it would be very difficult to be neutral with all of the information that the FireDogLaker’s have in your brains. But if you could be neutral. What did the defense present that would have stirred up questions in your mind if you were a juor about the guilt or innocence of Libby?
Marcy,Jane, this would make a good column. All of the developments in the trial that have gone undereported in the MSM. It has the cachet of Davey v Goliath but it serves to educate all those who want the details.
pseudonymous in nc @ 87
I don’t think that calling him a parasite is at all inappropriate, given that he posted this on the MBA website without correction
Congrats to Jane, Christy, Marcy and all who were involved in getting coverage of the trial to our own little ‘truth’ resort on the lake.
I have been following everyday, reading everything I can find, and found much glee in knowing that the MSM types will come here and ask an anonymous question of our ‘experts’ about the details of the trial.
Great work everyone. Back to my lurking…
S.O.S. in MA @ 67
If you build it, many will come! (including me, though prolly irrelevant) :)
PS — tnx again for the gabbly.com/firedoglake.com pointer
Some of us might be infamous in our irrelevance but we like to add a tweak to the twists that life offers. Gabbly’s a great find Rayne, thanks.
Chetnolian @ 97
It’s a contentious issue in English jurisprudence, but you’re right. It dates from the 1994 Criminal Justice Act. The less contentious element is that if you choose to remain silent or withhold information that you then rely upon at trial, the jury is allowed to draw an inference.
crap… the above @ 102 was coded incorrectly
here is the MBA quote
and here is my commentary
Daglish showed an extreme level of ignorance throughout her WaPo chat about the Libby trial, but the fact that she thinks that Cox was trying to get credetials for two years, when the indictment was handed down less than 18 months ago, shows what an idiot she is.
The fact that Cox engaged in self-promotion on the MBA site without correcting the record shows that he is just a parasite…
Beth Meacham@59
Your comment about intellectual property law caught my eye as I’ve been dragged into a legal wrangling following publication of a photography book about graffiti. I’ve been pretty immersed in the subject. Your area of expertise is truly fascinating especially in this case, where criminal law prosecutes graffiti as vandalism and intellectual property law seems to protect it.
S.O.S. in MA @ 95
It will likely be worthless and easily lost or misplaced. The BushBuck will be continually passed.
FireDogCelt anyone?
Chetnolian (97) — wha…? Are we getting pink-slipped and outsourced? I don’t know about you, but I still plan on being here in the wee and odd hours long after this trial.
There is still so much for us to talk about and to do; the current trial is only one of many topics we have in common here at FDL. Like the Roots Project that will surely be revisited in the near future, and its corollary outreach projects with Crashing the Gates and Rubber Stamps for Congress. Or Blue America, beginning with the Ned Lamont campaign — and surely having a huge impact in the coming election in my own backyard in multiple congressional races. Or the series by Matt Ortega on war profiteering, Jordan Barab and Tula Connell on Labor in America, Donita Spark’s The Spin I’m In, TRex and Pachacutec spanking us with snark and organizational effectiveness.
Or one of my favorites, FDL’s Sunday Book Salons.
And we haven’t really but just started. Heck, I’m still bucking for FireDogLakeTV. And I heard on an NPR program yesterday that there will be FCC auctions of radio bandwidth this spring…maybe FireDogLake-FM? (TRex!! Donita!! Fini FiniToobz!! That one’s for you!!)
Why, I’d bet we will still see new content here on foreign policy, poverty and economic development, race in America, the environment, technology…you’re going to be here for all that, aren’t you? I know I will!
Congratulations to the FDL Team, and especially to the live-blog team led by Jane, Christy, and Marcy (including Swopa and Pach). The NYTimes front-page article specifically mentioning FDL and Jane and Marcy is a big deal if only because the best well-researched US print daily has finally acknowledged the value of bloggers in news coverage, in the new calibration of news gathering, and most importantly, the arrival of new news media.
One final thing: The FDL Team did not seek out an article in the NYTimes. The editors and reporters chose to publish the article on the front page for their readers, which number over a million.
FDL rocks!
New
Just one question: Is that summer sausage and aged vermont chedder on Wheatsworth crackers on the photo at Plame House? PIC HERE
And I didn’t even know about you until I saw the article! Carry on and good show.
Archer @ 114
Welcome!
beth meacham @ 59
IANAL but my husband works in intellectual property and he forces me to read his articles. Since the live blogging really was not a transcript, as they noted every single time, filled with snark and color, haven’t they changed it up to make it something new that they created.
Not much to add here this morning that hasn’t been said already, but I loved the last lines in the NYT’s passable article on fdl’s Libby blogging:
“There’s a snarky, get-under-the-surface-of-things quality to it that’s really me,” Ms. Hamsher said.
Defending the honor of a CIA spy is the unlikely way this blog got going. But it turns out the spy and her husband were the salt of the earth kind of people who hold this country together. fdl, more than any other place in the information arena has helped keep those two people human in the narrative as it has been formed.
But the depth of professionalism at this blog has gone far, far beyond this legal case and its ramifications. Just to name a few -
Blue America and Howie Klein gained their main traction here. fdl commenters have pooled enormous amounts of info on lackluster performances in all aspects of media. GLBT issues have resonated here. and on and on. And ALL this has been done with that “snarky, under-the-surface” wry humor and wisdom Jane alluded to in the NYT quote.
And now fdl and others have launched Vaster Books with a book which can sit proudly on the best of contemporary American History library shelves.
This new paradigm of journalism/research is barely beginning. Great job, folks!
AZ Matt @ 79
I believe the President dollars will come out at the rate of four a year like the state quarters. That means that it will be ten years before the idiot child comes up and by then maybe he’ll be in jail or at least in exile in Paraquay..
Rayne @ 60
Good idea. Rhetoric is fun, but expertise is useful.
Rayne @ circa 110
Absolutely all of that and so much more to discover and share with the intelligent, compassionate community here at FDL. A sarcastic therapod is worth the price of admission alone….but FDL-FM? yeah, that time has come.
I would also like to thank the FireDoglaker’s for all of the incredible insights and information in regard to this trial.
It seems many of the “corporate media” types are threatened by the bloggers. I attended a conference at the Scripps School of Journalism at Ohio Univ that was focused on the web, bloggers and this new territory. Many of the older Professors and Journalist in training expressed disdain and laughed about the revolution in access that was taking place. This reminded me of the response of the AMA during the 60’s and 70’s when many people were questioning the controls that the AMA had over health care. Many were seeking alternatives and accepting more responsibility for their health choices
The AMA was terribly threatened, and then 20 years later many of these institutions were integrating “complementary health care” choices and information about alternatives.
Yes, yes, SO Worth it and we are so grateful for the fine job you all have been doing and the occasional humor with which it is served.
I thank Judge Walton and staff as well, and once again all the folks from FDL for
1. seeing what needed to be done.
2. Doing it
3. doing it so well!
I passionately hope this isn’t the end of investigation/trials resulting from these treasonous acts committed by the Bu$hCo Crime Organization.
masaccio — oh definitely…there were times during the last election cycle when I very much needed a resource to coach through something minor related to progressive activism. This place is chock full of them; so much better to ask people to help progressive efforts from their place of comfort, too.
rumi — can you imagine TRex on radio without having to be a well-mannered, subdued voice of local public radio? Can you imagine the audio snarkfest if the leash was off the therapod? RAWWRRRR!!!
If folks have not contacted NPR’s Diane Rehms show with the idea of having Marcy on as a guest with her new book “Anatomy of Deceit”. May I suggest once again e-mailing drshow@wamu.org or calling the comment line @ 202-885-1231. Or call during the show tomorrow on Friday which is focused on the events of the week 1-800-433-8850.
Diane and her staff are truely open to suggestions and I believe Diane is one of the best mainstream news outlets that we have.
Great articles, though we know you deserve much greater kudos than just bieng listed as the former prosecutor. But, thanks to the recognition in the Times, if FDL wasn’t on the NSA watch list and the Shooter’s shit list before …
For what it’s worth, I find the collections of approved jury instructions a very useful tool for research. In the relevant AJI collection, go the the legal issue you’re researching, the instruction itself will be followed by a string of citations that support the instruction. You can then work through those cases — shepardizing and using Westlaw — to flesh out and polish your research.
You guys have done an amazing job– smart, deep, lucid, informed. Of course, the MSM has taken notice. They’re only a year or two behind, which is both disheartening (oh no, here they come, I hear their hooves like thunder in the distance, don’t let them ruin it) and encouraging (we/you are changing things).
I tivo’d the Plame panel at yearlyK last year and took a look at it last night. From the perspective of this point in time, what struck me most was the distinction Marcy drew between newspapers and blogs. Blogs have the time and space to delve into things that print media cannot, things such as character (ta dum!) and construct a deeper narrative.
That deeper narrative is beginning to affect the quicker, shorter ones, imo, and that’s a great good thing.
Thanks. I’m really proud of the job you’ve done.
This place is so damned “yeasty”! And Scott Shane’s writing is like sun-warmed Bud Light.
I regret to inform you no one at ABC reads Firedoglake. This morning in an interview with Don Imus, Charles Gibson said ABC is not covering the Libby trial because they do not understand the issues.
Too dumb? Too Immoral? Too much of an administration toady?
A question from a peasant. So if one juror decides Libby is innocent? Where does the case go from that point?
Kudos, Brava and Bravo to all!!! Congratulations on what will be a well-earned place in break-through journalism history, not to mention all the rest! Thank you for sharing this wonderful news! Sky’s the limit!
Katherine Graham Cracker @ 129
possible perjury and obstruction related to lies about a blow job—Gibson gives it wall to wall coverage.
possible perjury and obstruction related to lies about the manipulation of intelligence and the outing of a covert CIA operative — Gibson doesn’t understand.
What a maroon.
Remember it:like any organized crime case. Use it!
While waiting for the live Libby blogging to resume, there’s an excellent portion of an interview with the real Watergate journalist, Carl Bernstein, at E&P. It’s about the difference in the lying of the Nixon and Bush administrations, here’s an excerpt:
I think what we’re talking about with the Bush administration is a far different matter in which disinformation, misinformation and unwillingness to tell the truth — a willingness to lie both in the Oval Office, in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, in the office of the vice president, the vice president himself — is something that I have never witnessed before on this scale.
He talks a bit about the MSM failure to point this out as well.
Eric @
90
It will be after. Tuesday is closings. Wednesday is instruction.
Katherine Graham Cracker @ 129
scandalous! Their scurrilous 9-11 distorto-drama might have been a slip-up but, bit by bit, the evidence is piling up.
kathleen @ 124
Will do Kathleen. I’ll write DR an email. See you back at the cornfield, or some alternate reality.
O’Reilly
Neil @ 112
Machts nichts, imho; what MY eye fastened on was the snazzy Mac laptop on the left… just like the one I’m using right now… :)
my guess….a quick as possible retrial in which jurors’ antipathy toward Cheney will not be disqualifying, and in which all the memory defense information that TeamLibby backdoored will be excluded — resulting in a quick conviction.
Let’s get both FDL’s books on the Diane Rehms show. Call or email the show about “U.S. vs. Bush”
p.lukasiak @ 139
Thanks…I sure hope so.
SOS in MA @ 138. Machts nichts? Never tell a German that what’s for snack, does not matter. Ach du lieber Himmel!
So we have two questions, one about the food and one about the Macintosh.
Jane has been amazing through all of this. She’s got a lot on her plate. Has Jane been acting up in the media room? It would be a shame to get sent to the principal’s office because she can’t keep from snarking out loud.
Go, Jane, Go!
Good morning, everyone! What a great article — it’s wonderful to be recognized as a force to be reckoned with by the NYT! Blogging has come of age — I hope this leads to more trials being covered this way.
Another common defense strategy is to submit jury instructions that will win an appeal in the event of a guilty verdict. See State v. Jackowski, 2006 VT 119, involving the arrest of an anti-war protestor, and a bad jury instruction on the issue of intent. Conviction reversed, and on remand the prosecution gave up rather than demanding a re-trial.
I know, I am a bad, bad man for not seeing the NYT story as some sort of breakthrough. The story treats FDL coverage as some sort of exotic novelty, not the kind of coverage that should routinely happen in such an important case. It is a process and personality story, with only passing mention of why FDL and its contributors think the Libby case is so important to our country and why it is worthy of the kind of coverage FDL is devoting to it. Now I would have had a different view of the story had they devoted sufficient column inches for the FDL contributors to lay out their theory of the case, why Libby should not have been the only person indicted, why this case is symptomatic of the illegality of this Administration. I did not intend to denigrate, and in fact did not denigrate, the work done by FDL in this case. But at bottom the story treats FDL as a novelty and gives them a nice pat on the head. FDL doesn’t need this kind of condescension, no matter how flattering it may be in the short run.
Yay for Jane and Marcy! I ran right out and bought a copy for my very own! It’s a pretty good article. I have some questions about this bit with Cox, however. Did Shane speak to Cox about this? Did Cox actually take credit for all Janes’ hard work getting credentials? Or did Shane just lift something that Cox said on his blog about offering to help get Jane on the AP feed out of context that made it sound as if he were our benefactor? And does Cox have the basic honesty and the stones to correct the record?
Isn’t it fascinating that the old habits die so hard? In a story that is about FDL bloggers getting credentialed and providing detailed, on the ground, first hand reporting on an important case for the first time, Shane still feels it necessary to drag in some right wingers opinion about the validity of the proscuction to provide “balance”. Although I must say that at least he didn’t actually give the right wingers ranting space about how well FDL is doing the job!
For some reason I couldn’t edit my comment above — Figures Bob Cox would try to take credit for making all of this happen. He’s a real jerk, from what I know about his old anti-Olbermann site.
Great job all around on the work the FDL team has done covering this trial. I’m glad to see you getting the recognition you deserve.
You’ve got a great primer on jury instructions here, Christy. One further point about jury instructions that you didn’t mention: Well-crafted jury instructions help to set up issues for appeal. One way is by submitting instructions that are correct but the judge rejects, so that you can argue to the appellate court they should have been accepted and read to the jury. Another way is by influencing the wording of the instructions that are actually accepted, so that you can argue to the appellate court the instruction requires evidence of X, but there was insufficient evidence of X presented for a reasonable jury to rule against your client.
dmh @ 146
Agreed. When an outbreak of journalism is treated as a curiosity by the New York Times… Houston, we have a problem.
kathleen @ 140
Kathleen, did you see Liz de la Vega on CSPAN’s book TV? She was excellent.
Ok, I’m off to write two emails to Diane Rehm requesting two guests; Marcy and Liz. Are there some other Fire Pups out there who’d like to hear Marcy and/or Liz on the Diane Rehm show?
Neil aka O’Reilly
SOS in MA, anybody on gabbly.com/firedoglake.com this morning?
I’ve been indexing pleadings and liveblog efforts for some time.
Index to LiveBlog efforts
Index to Trial Pleadings
The index to pleadings includes links to the proposed jury instructions by both sides. A number of issues have been hard-fought from the perspective of jury instructions.
Your site is one I have visited every day for the past two years. Your writing is intelligent and well thought out. And Jane always makes me laugh out loud. She has a knack for snark. Thanks for doing all that you do.
As for the NYT, all I can say is, what rock have they been hiding under? But I’m glad they are waking up and recognizing the fine and important work you have been doing for the last few years.
Off to Paypal.
Neil I did not see her, but will go check it out at C-Span.
Neil @ 151
Nope, just a couple. Maybe more if FDL heats up later … ~9800 visits in the last hour! :)
conniptionfit @
147
I think Marcy had a thing or two to say about Cox the other day. As it turns out, Marcy got credentials for DailyKos. We’re really getting incestuous these days, aren’t we?
thank you *xyz @ 84 -
What we are “… looking for is greater accuracy and depth of reporting in a more transparent environment…”
I’d like to add that we have all learned more about the criminal trial process and how difficult it is to hold government officials accountable. This reporting enables us to appreciate all the efforts supporting it.
This lucid reporting is also a motivating force to pursue legal and journalistic professions. Thank you.
Christy -
Have you looked at any of the new proposed jury instructions filed by Libby’s lawyers? They are on PACER and were filed this week.
I am wondering what tricks and sleight of hand they will try to pull to cover their failure to provide evidence to support their main defense. Also, I wonder what they may try to hide in there to help them argue scapegoating, which imo is not a real defense but an appeal for jury nullification.
Also, have you looked at Fitz’s instructions — any interesting specials proposed?
One can imagine Judith Miller taking her first sip of coffee while opening the NY Times. Front page, center, above the fold. Judith Miller. Picture it, savor it. That image alone is satisfying, but the best part is that FDL is deservedly recognized for their wonderful work. No huge money behind the effort, just the will to tell the story. Fabulous, Fabulous, Fabulous!!
Ya’ll have done an excellent job at covering this trial; Thank You. The commentary and satire has been great (I just got ’shooter’; lmao!) The ironic thing from NYT was their ‘objective journalism’ comparative. What? NYT objective? Or any other MSM? Give me a break! Their pseudo-objectivity makes salmonella look like a delicacy! Objectivity is non-existent in journalism, for the most part. Being that as it may, I much prefer honesty, integrity, and independence. Thank you Firedoglake, and all of the effort you have put forth.
Jane-may your illness be overcome and may you have many years to enjoy your passion.
Lisa
AZ Matt @
48
It is a well known fact that print media (newspapers) are declining in circulation. Just last week Hearst Corp., said that is has lost hundreds of millions since buying the San Francisco Chronicle a few years ago, and is moving to more digital media. The New York Times has to recognize that e-news and blogging is the wave of the future. Why do you think there are so many NYTimes.com pop-up ads? It’s spelled M-O-N-E-Y!!!!
Any regognition of blogging on their front is a way to increase their circulation, influence, and the bottom line. Look at the classified ad links between print media newspapers and electronic classifieds.
I think it’s going to be a more centralized source. The future of news distribution looks to me like a big Google with bloggers getting their stories included.
For a while MainStreamMedia will pay to be on top, but sooner or later the public will demand and pay for on a low-fee/membership subscription basis,unbiased, truthful reporting in real time.
Boudica @ 160
Not to mention Barbara Comstock and all those donors to the Libby defense fund. I suspect this is why the article includes a shout-out to a right-wing blog. Could you imagine the outrage if FDL were the only web address listed? Not only would that enforce the “liberal media” theme, it would send ALL interested NYT readers straight into the arms of the liberal Lake. Next thing you know, Scooter might get on the phone and start complaining to the editors, same as he did to Russert.
Rayne @
60
I’d certainly be wiling to participate (as one of the non-pseudonymous participants here). I am near completing my PhD in Computer Science, and have expertise in document formats among other things. When the Rathergate thing went down, I was following the discussion on kerning with interest, because that’s actually one of my specialties. (see this thread for an example of me being fanatically devoted to an intricacy.)
I’m also amused by the factual error in the NYT piece. It’s emblematic, I think. Above-the-fold front and center NYT pieces simply don’t go through the same kind of rigorous fact-checking as, say, a typical FDL post, and are particularly susceptible to spin by interested parties. Not much news to us, but it’s cool to have such a clear-cut example of this pattern on this day.
The George W. Bush dollar coin…
AZ Matt @ 79
I was thinking mercury.
Because:
It’ll slip through your fingers
It is highly toxic
It changes its form without changing its nature
It is absolutely useless
You start with a dollar and end with a mess
And the number one reason:
Because W thought it would be a good idea
You guys are, quite simply, the best. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I can’t slog through 165 entries to get to my question, so excuse me if it’s been already asked. I read today that Cox takes public credit for ALL of your passes to blog the Libby trial. This is not true, right?
That’s right, heskiastor. It’s not true. Passes were arranged directly, and in conjunction with Arianna and Kos. Cox got a few passes that were for rotating bloggers, but those were not used by FDL’ers.
Christy, This quote below from the USNews article is incorrect, right? No one at Firedoglake is “paid” to blog, right? The article is misleading with that line.
I’ll give the NYT a reluctant nod for this portion, but it would have read better with these corrections:
Speaking of Even as they exploit the newest technologies has there been any information published here about the technology?
Even if it is relatively simple, I think that would be of interest to a lot of viewers, myself included.
For Christy and/or other lawyers:
During closing arguments, can Fitzgerald (or any attorney, for that matter) use visual presentations (a chart(s), a timeline or a power point presentation) to help summarize the case for the jury? Basically, a presentation that would incorporate multiple evidence items and testimony from multiple witnesses?
I would think that a nice graphical timeline would be very helpful as a supplement to the attorney’s spoken words during the closing.
To all the contributors at Firedoglake, great job all around on the Libby trial, from the liveblogging (what a coup!) to the analysis, to the commentary — it was superb, really superb. And historic. I don’t exaggerate by saying that Firedoglake is one of the reasons we are taking our country back.
LOL — I notice that the NYT didn’t mention how many visitors have been flocking to bask in the glow of Clarice’s
insane ramblingsgolden prose…Huge props for firedoglake and the erumpant recognition you deserve! Whether or not the NYT deigns to knight you into their empire, and whether or not they even have that authority, we cannot deny the value of the new media and its contributions of raw truth to the public record. Go dog go!
Ed*ard Teller @ 117
I haven’t read to the end of the thread yet, but I must mention the posting Christy made several months ago about a horrifying incident in her life, and making that posting under her RL name. It took real courage to write about the experience.
FDL, even when we’re laughing, is thought-provoking. The blog challenges its readers to act on the idea that one person, working with others for a common goal, can change our world.
-S
During closing arguments, can Fitzgerald (or any attorney, for that matter) use visual presentations (a chart(s), a timeline or a power point presentation) to help summarize the case for the jury?
It’s done every day, though if you’re going to illustrate each lie with a picture of Pinocchio’s nose getting longer you’d better get permission from the judge first.
My guess is Mr. Shane got this from the NPR reporting. We noted and protested this error back when they first put it up. Perhaps, this is another example of how memes get propagated in the insular world of DC insiders. IIRC, this isn’t the first time Mr. Shane has shown this tendancy.
A fine article, Mr. Shane, nonetheless. Thank you.
I’m glad somebody picked this up. I also recall Marcy saying specifically that she had gotten her pass even independently of huff and fdl on the merits of her having worked on her book. I get a bit outraged when people try to look important by cashing in on other people’s work!
Got this reply to my email to NYT:
SharonRB @ 148
I nearly threw a shoe through the computer screen when I read the bit in the Times article about Cox “securing credentials” for FDL bloggers. [Not a good idea re the shoe, since I was not even at my own computer.]
However, I was pleased to note at the end of the NYT article that a big ‘ole correction had been posted about Cox’s erroneous claims.
What Katie Jensen @74 said: beautifully stated.
Remember some of the old black-and-white movies in which reporters covering a trial rushed to the nearest phone during a break or at the end and called in a report to their copy editor at the newspaper.
This is what the bloggers (like FDL) at the Libby trial remind me of. Except in this modern day version, the reporter/blogger, instead of rushing to a nearby telephone, can instantly report over the internet on what’s happening in the courtroom.
I still like that image, though, from the old movies. How about all of you wearing 1940s-style hats like all the reporters of yore seemed to wear?
(Aw, c’mon. I can imagine the buzz in the courtroom/pressroom if all the bloggers/reporters showed up wearing 1940s-style hats on Tuesday. Heehee. Maybe even with a press/blogger card tucked in the hat brim?)