Unlike many of her rivals for the Democratic nomination for president, Hillary refuses to say her clear support for the Iraq invasion was a mistake:
“It is a gnawing, painful sore,” she said of Iraq. “People are beside themselves with frustration, and I understand that completely. We are trying in the Senate to set forth a strategy that has the best hope of getting the president’s attention.”[snip]Mark Penn, Mrs. Clinton’s chief strategist, said in an interview: “It’s important for all Democrats to keep the word ‘mistake’ firmly on the Republicans and on President Bush. Senator Clinton has been very clear that we, as a party, should keep the focus on Bush — these were his mistakes. Ultimately that’s very important, not just for her, but for the entire Democratic party.”
So, talk about Bush, but not Iraq. Who else doesn't want to talk about Iraq? Guess.
We heard this same crap from Emanuel and Schumer in the runup to '06, before Ned opened a can of whupass on the party and changed the whole national conversation.
Hey, DC Dems: this is not your party. It's our party. Our house. We get out the vote, and our vote is not for sale.
Thwap!
Say somethin' else smart to me!
(Update in response to a question: That’s Tyler Perry as his character Madea in one of his stage plays. There were a couple of movies based on the plays, such as Madea’s Family Reunion. Funny stuff. )
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PACH! FDL!
Lurkin’……..in between shovelin’ episodes. HRC? Big disappointment.
Nil! Fitz! Pach! Jane! Christy! Et. al!
William Jefferson Clinton was a sport of nature, not the resurrection of the Democratic Party — in fact, he was far from it. The DLC was and remains a profoundly anti-progressive group which in effect made Democratic candidates into Republicans without the vitriol.
IMHO, HRC has the potential to be a good Senator for NY, if she would channel her inner Daniel Patrick Moynihan (minus, of course, the eyebrows and the alcohol consumption). But HRC simply does not have the leadership qualities that make a good President. Her comments on Iraq only serve to reinforce my opinion.
Methinx we need to complain to the USG not only about Donohue, but also that HRC is violating the law against influencing political campaigns from the OUTside. Because she’s goin’ more there with each passing day. It’s too bad Hills, but you seem to have triangulated yourself to a really obtuse position ‘WAY outside the Democratic body politic.
Good Morning Pachacutec and Firedogs,
and on a related note -
Gilliard
bing…in a nutshell…nicely done
By the way, that neoconman Feith is telling lies in the Washington Post today.
The Clinton Party just about destroyed the Democratic Party throughout the country. States like ND only now are starting to rebuild on encouraging gains in ‘06. The infrastructure was obliterated to serve the Clinton Party. Enough.
And, Bush is holding a press conference this morning so he can smug about NKorea. S’pose any real reporters will be there to ask him when he’s firing and denouncing the Plame leakers/treasoners? Or will it be the usual bunch of mutton?
perris @ 7
Kind of like how Madea said it’s her house in the video slug.
Ya Pach @10, what WAS that nasty show? Never seen it (color me old) :)
Pachacutec @ 9
I think I’d like to slap Emanuel most of all. Of course, it was the Bill Clinton campaign that started him off.
That’s Tyler Perry as his character Madea in one of his stage plays. There were a couple of movies based on the plays, such as Madea’s Family Reunion. Funny shit.
ifthethunderdontgetya @
8
Thunder, great catch!
Please, everyone, if you have a chance, read the comments that WaPo readers are pasting onto Douggie Feith. Just go to the bottom of his
self-serving sloparticle and click on “View Comments.”Tnx Pach @ 13.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 8
I have no doubt that Feith’s in bigtime CYA mode. If you/anyone would like to detail the lies I’d be grateful; I can’t bear to read him anymore. TIA :)
=====
Ooh John Casper @14, of course — the comments! That should be fun. Forget I asked; I’ll let the blogosphere flay him over there. TTFN :)
Dear Hillary, this is a very serious mistake! When the head of the IAEA Mr. El Baradei and UN’s Kofi Anan came out before the invasion and told the world that the Niger Documents were false. When Un inspector Scott Ritter told the world that Iraq did not have WMD’s, when CIA analyst (on the Diane Rehms show and Talk of the Nation) came out and told the world that the intelligence had been created cherry picked, and then dessiminated in highly questionable ways ,by individuals with a regime change agenda in the middle east. When hundreds of thousands (millions accumutlatively) marched against the invasion based on what we were hearing on the BBC, NPR, and alternative sources of info. When a Soccer mom (me)living in Athens OHio could hear expert after expert question the rationale, ligitimacy and wisdom of the invasion, and our representatives did not listen to these experts. YOUR TIME IS UP SISTER, FOR COMING CLEAN!
We have heard former Senator Edwards, Senator Dodd and a few others take “some” responsibility for their decision to vote for the war resolution. If you do not come out and clearly explain just why you voted for the war resolution (did you receive some other intelligence that the public was not privy to?) you will be up against a wall of the American public who was against that war before it started! I kid you not, we will stand against you! The MSM did not really show the world who was at those anti-invasion marches (surprised?)
Come Clean tell us why you voted for the resolution. We know you will clean up the health care system(this is where you have my vote) Stand against an attack on Iran, make a clear statement about the Israeli Palestinian conflict that is fair and balanced, address our addiction (oil) in a serious way. AND YOU WILL WIN!
THESE ARE NOT LIBERAL STANCES THEY ARE CONSERVATIVE STANCES! CONSERVE OUR AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIVES CONSERVE THE U.S. STNADING IN THE WORLD! CONSERVE!
Once a Goldwater Girl, always a Goldwater Girl.
But I think even Goldwater would have difficulty with a triangulator that doesn’t have the moxie to own up to a mistake and say they learned something from it.
Fortunately, what he said:
F*ckin’ A, man. This Party is OURS, we put OUR man Howard in the seat, we’re building our posse with a new DCCC chair, and we’re going to continue to kick some ass and take names. This is the Party of True Representative Democracy and if you can’t represent us, get the hell out of the way.
Speaking of Bush & N Korea (Prairie Sunshine @521a), and tying it in w/ our favorite obsession, the trial, Michael Hirsh points out the full 180 nature of the Korea reversal in Newsweek, and chalks some of it up to Shooter’s being distracted by Scooter’s trial.
So, there’s another benefit to Fitz’ good work: keeping Dick so busy he forgets to drive us closer to nuclear holocaust!
What the hell is with NBC News’s smug, old parents with rich fucking kids week?
Rayne @ 17
Amen!
Libby trial info:
Washington is a bit dazed from an ice storm. We are waiting to hear if our trial will be on today or not. The schedule was documents to be filed no later than 9:30 for the judge; legal arguments at 11:30; jury to sit at 1:30.
The jury was told they don’t have to come in Thursday. Friday the court handles matters other than this trial. [What? There are other matters??] Monday is a holiday. Tuesday is supposed to be closing arguments, but I don’t see how they can do that if the jury doesn’t get what they need today.
Stay safe on the ice, eg.
In court they are arguing whether, in light of Libby’s decision not to take the stand, the 3 CIA briefers should still be permitted to
scare the living daylights out of the poor juryexplain in detail that Libby was handling Very Big Important Scary Matters regarding ScaryRealTerrorist Threats to the Nation and had no time to think about Wilson. Except for all the documented time, now in court evidence, that he DID work on destroying Wilson.Good morning everyone. Nice post. Yesterday the WaPo’s Richard Cohen (whom I normally can NOT stand) wrote a well-argued piece that Clinton’s tortured response on this is unacceptable. My favorite bit was this line, which to me, sums Sen. Clinton up:
“In Clinton’s case, she is dead center in American public opinion, foursquare for what’s popular and courageously opposed to what’s not.”
Pachacutec @ 22
I lived in Boston for 17 years. This kind of weather wouldn’t raise an eyebrow up there. I doubt they would even call up the snowplows, as it’s less than four inches of stuff on the roads. Not to mention the weather in Russia. So it’s a bit baffling.
Once Fairfax County closed the schools when it rained. They thot it might snow and panicked. Sigh.
Jane S. @ 24
Well, Cohen was wrong about that. She’s for what’s popular in DC among the elites. But in the counntry, “get the hell out now” is most popular.
She lives in a Davos bubble of her own choosing. Actually, her people, including Mark Penn, know the poll numbers. Her choice to hew to the right can only be taken as a sign of her beliefs and her character. Hillary likes war.
Out of town people arrived safely.
“Right here, right now…can you tell us…”
“A hum-a-na..hum-a-na…”
Ever the politician, that Hillary. She needs to grow a pair and fess up…she was for the invasion before she was agin it.
I’ve got people scattered, am sending text messages about the trial to Paris—Mother, India—mrEgr, California—egDau, Dominican Republic—egDau, and a well known northeastern unitersity—the young one. Doesn’t anybody stay home anymore? I personally never travel. :D
morning, all… there’s coffee…
and Happy Valentines Day, by the way….
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 8
Wow, I just checked the comments on the Feith piece — already up to 9 pages and growing fast! :) Go denounce! I posted:
What bugs ME is that Feith and his ilk are published in the dead-tree edition of the WaPo, and those of us in the blogosphere are relegated to electrons. How often does the paper WaPo publish our furious denunciations where John Q. Offline can read and heed them? Not nearly enough, if at all! Come ON, WaPo, open the e-Ghetto doors and show the printed world more of what We, the People really think of CYA puff-pieces like this reprehensible unpatriotic blood-drenched tripe!
OldCoastie @ 30
Shhh! I did a pre-Valenrtine’s post Saturday Nite that seemed to give everyone the blues. Not my intention, but it included another Tyler Perry clip I thought was funny as hell. But no one remarked on it.
scory @
20
And when will Dean and the rest of the Aipac ass kissing Democrats (including Hillary) take a more balanced and fair stand on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. There are more people than they imagine who want this ass kissing to stop.
Pachacutec @ 26
No attempt to defend Hillary but rhetoric against the war only started to come out of her mouth when a majority of Americans were against the war. I don’t know who this woman is–is she a hawk or is she only a hawk when it is politically expedient? All I know is she is a liar like our current President and I think this country needs a truth teller.
Keep beatiung up Hillary! Do the Right’s work for them! Skewer your front runner! Cripple Her! Make her say those wonderful words, “I was for it, then I was against it, I lied!” Think of the mileage the Repugs will get out of those words in their upcoming attack ads! It will all be worth it it at President McCain’s 2008 Inauguration. Good job!
egregious @ 20
E.G. it is still snowing in Columbus…I’d expect that you will getting more trouble, unless it tracks to the north of D.C.
oops!
well, there’s coffee anyway…
The question I would ask Ms. Clinton, is whether she or her staff read the classified NIE report before she cast her vote. If not, why not.
My understanding is that it was made available to all Senators in a classified area, but few took up the opportunity. One staffer on the intelligence committee read the report and pleaded with others to read it because it contradicted the public version, but was told, “forget it, that train has left.”
How can we have a person for President that makes an important decision without even reading a report about it. I would ask Edwards the same question, since he was on the intelligence committee at the time.
Mornin’ all doggies! Grrrrrrreat Libby trial coverage this week, again, and wish I could’ve kept up with it live but had to work. Grrrr.
I actually don’t mind my ‘oh-so-close to big money’ Senator Clinton not admitting her whopper of a mistake vote for WAR!!! (hey there Marshall Wittman, DLC neo-con mole extraordinaire!) It’ll probably prevent her from becoming the party’s nominee for president, since it makes her look so, erm, CRAVEN. Or BEHOLDEN. And, as the country becomes more and more horrified and sickened by non-accountability and Machiavellian politics, it’s all piling up on her head like a big lump of doo-doo.
Luigi @ 35
We are Democrats. We don’t have to all agree.
Aaron Russo – The most important interview of our time:
http://video.google.com/videop…..mp;q=aaron russo rockefeller&hl=en
You MUST watch this and share it with EVERYONE.
A shorter version is here:
http://video.google.com/videop…..mp;q=aaron russo rockefeller&hl=en
The Council On Foreign Relations DID 9/11
The Rockefellers DID 9/11.
The “War On Terror” does not exist.
“Bin Laden” does not exist.
If you don’t STOP – and take the time to watch this, you cannot ridicule those who risk their own personal security to tell the truth.
If you do watch it, and love America, you’ll never again ridicule a TRUTHTELLER.
STOP what you are doing.
WATCH THIS INTERVIEW.
Then share it with EVERYONE.
Google Video Search: Historic Interview With Aaron Russo
Hillary, are you reading this? Ok, babe, here’s the bottom line: you *must* say your vote was a mistake. And the reason why you must say it is because it was a mistake. Whatever your political calculations were at the time, they backfired spectacularly if you are defending your vote now. You would have been much better off politically without the AIPAC money.
And BTW, Hillary, it was not a mistake of Bush to go to war and screw it up. He did it intentionally. The error was that of the Congresscriters and Senators who gave him the OK to do it in the first place. They might have been afraid of losing their seats at the time but public perception is formed by your actions, not by your failure to act. Who knows what might have taken place on election day 2002 if you guys had stood up en masse and said “No!”. We will never know what might have happened if you had done the right thing. But don’t think you can weasel out of it now. You must admit to your mistake now or forget about the Oval office.
Sincerely,
A former Bill and Hillary voter.
Jane S. @ 40
What I like about Democrats is that we debate and disagree. Unlike the Republic autobots, that wait for talking points, and lack the capacity for critical thinking. That is a STRENGTH of the Democrats, not a weakness.
I don’t think we can have any honesty in our govt til someone calls the Iraq invasion what it is – a crime. Hillary and the rest of them can say they were conned but it was and is illegal, immoral and wrong. Us trying to “fix it” or win is not possible. Kinda like sending an arsonist home invader back to the scene to make it all right. Of course admitting they were conned would make them look gullible and weak, but they can take comfort in having lots of company. (nobody I’d want to hang around with either, *g*)
Yesterday’s Libby trial wrapup. Hope we have court today, I’ve been up and dressed since 6.
People here [real life here] are asking me what my own small blog is about. Best I can think to reply is the intersection of political rants and mental illness. It’s not a complete overlap, I would still be sick even with an honest government.
Without a vote cast
Luigi declares a winner!
HRC has some issues, and she needs to address them.
oh look, the CA State Senate is opposing the escalation… now, if they would just bring home all the CA National Guard troops too.
defrosting the mouse finger enough to point out some delightful and rather discreet color commentary from Prettyman
egregious ♥’s patrick
and I swear to goodness, if this html thingy doesn’t work . . .
Egregious, I read your post and really liked it. It is nice to know that people like Pat Fitzgerald are in the world, smart and on the side of justice.
kathleen — I’m going to take serious issue with your comment.
Dean got HAMMERED for saying we needed to be even-handed in the Palestinian-Israeli mess. I don’t think Dean in any way is an AIPAC-kisser; it’s my own line in the sand, I’m sensitive to it. (Hell, if Dean had gotten any real money from AIPAC-supporters during his primary run, real political support from them, we’d be listening to Repukes bitching about President Dean.)
Take it up with Hillary, who’s taken enormous amounts of money from AIPAC supporters, who gave a rather nuanced amount of support to Lamont because it threatened her AIPAC base. And while you’re at it, take it up with Dean’s backstabbers Chuck Schumer and Rahm Emmanuel, both of whom f*cked our chances for a solid majority in the Senate and a veto-proof majority in the House because they are bought and paid for by Likudniks.
One of the things that absolutely must stop is the death-grip control that one small country’s ultra-conservative political party has over our foreign policy. In an effort to continue to appease this minority of a foreign country, we have systematically pissed off a block of people larger than the population of the United States, one that has dramatically influenced our welfare for the last 6 years.
I hope like hell that Waxman and Conyers and the DOJ are able to get into this matter more pointedly; this ultra-conservative political party has actually infiltrated our government, taken state secrets, and nothing of much substance has happened for it. The stupidest man alive, Doug Feith, should be answering a lot of questions about this very matter along with many of his peeps in the former OSP.
cbl @ 48
I changed yr link, it was going just to the comment page. Hey read the post first, otherwise the comments don’t make any sense!
Cheney’s Nightmare @ 41
Good Lord, CN, when you want to post a huge URL, recall that the FDL SW isn’t very long-URL-friendly. That’s why we have http://tinyurl.com . There are those who are reluctant to click on tinyurls lest they be redirected to unpleasant or virus-laden pages; so considerate tinyurl posters often say what the tinyurl is going to expand to. (IIRC, there’s even a way to have tinyurl pause in mid-expand and allow a user decision on whether or not to go forward. I just looked for it on tinyurl.com but couldn’t find it)
As for me, I haven’t yet listened to the “most important interview of our time” and I’m not sure I will, in light of this compressed Google search on “Aaron Russo” — http://tinyurl.com/3a7qvr
G-morning! Ned Lamont action.
Rayne, at #50: Yes. You are so on the mark.
thanks eg – a few more minutes of sunshine may have made the difference in my torpid state
FYI, Ohio is frozen.
This makes 5 days of school cancellation this month for my kids.
I was cracking up about some of the wording in the weather forecasts. Yesterday there was the promise of a “wintery mix”–which made me think of, I don’t know, a sort of chocolate Chex mix dusted with powdered sugar.
Then they talked about icy glaze on the roads. They’re making me hungry!
Pachacutec @
32
i guess we’re all down with the surge and the potential for havoc in that other i country…
we really should make some efforts to get out a bit more!
but not on the icy roads,
maybe just make an effort to look at the cornices, the light fixtures overhead… my eyelids have become heavy and looking up takes conscious efforts these days.
Please! primary season anyone? It’s called democracy.
Let’s admit it. Without Bill, Hillary is nothing. If she did not have him to boost her up, she would not even be running. She appears to be a good Senator. Great, leave her there. Every single Clinton hater from 20 years ago, will be out dragging every one they know to the polls next year to vote against her. The RNC will do a job on her and bring up Bill’s infidelities, Whitewater, etal to smear her. I will pull a handle for her if she ends up on the ballot, but reluctently.
There is no mystery as to why Hillary Clinton voted in support of the Iraq invasion. She was simply doing what her AIPAC/NeoCon supporters were telling her to do. It’s another reminder that we have the best politicians that money can buy.
Rayne; I have a lot of respect for your opinion, but Dean himself has in the past indicated a certain simpatico with AIPAC…
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0226-04.htm
“When asked by the Jewish newspaper Forward late last year as to whether he supported APN’s (Americans for Peace Now) perspective, Governor Dean replied “No, my view is closer to AIPAC’s view.”
Lots more…
Just to be sure no one misses the message in the post: this is not only about Hillary. It’s about Mark Penn and all the other members of the DC/K Street Elites in the Democratic Party who think they own the party, who, in so believing, seek to manipulate and disenfranchise the very people outside of DC who comprise the party.
I’m trying to read the Feith piece in the Post but I’m afraid I won’t be able to keep my breakfast down.
Renee — oh nuts. I warned my spouse about that as he took off this morning for Detroit. He’s supposed to head for the greater Dayton area after Detroit. Having lived in a suburb of Columbus as a kid, I know you folks don’t do snow there, not well at all. Used to have school called off if we got 3 inches of the white stuff, used to p*ss my Yooper mother off. (As a kid, she remembers school in the Marquette area being called off only when she couldn’t see the neighbor’s house a mere 20 feet away.)
Guess I’ll have to send him that link you furnished and remind him it’s not the road conditions, it’s the nuts out on them that are most dangerous. Thanks.
Pachacutec @ 62
I think HRC might be the domino that knocks them down. Democrats and Americans in general have had it with political calculation and tortured excuses. Will people really be able to stomach Hillary the 100th time she argues that she didn’t make a mistake? And when she inevitably flips to “Yes I made a mistake”, she will look bad too because she’ll be a dollar short and a day late after doing nothing to stop the escalation.
nice icey precipitaton we’re getting in the N.E. Hope this doesn’t mean downed power lines.
The road conditions have been pretty freaking bad, though, Rayne. Yesterday, before the icing had even started, I lost control of my car a couple times. I was going slowly, being extra careful, but it’s like the car would momentarily get a mind of its own. Thankfully, I got home okay. In the month before Christmas, *both* of our cars were in minor accidents, neither of which was our fault. So I’m extra careful.
But I do hear you about how little snow they will close school for. I grew up in Chicago.
Glorfindel @ 54
I agree about this too. As citizens of this country, we ought to be very aggressive about understanding by who and why our domestic and foreign policies are being influenced. Stifling debate by saying someone is anti-semitic or anti-catholic or in favor of abandoning our soldiers or helping our enemies is no longer acceptable.
I’ll just say that I’m realizing that we can’t trust even one single thing our own government is saying right now. And I don’t think the organized political parties are much better, they may even be worse.
mui @ 66
Yes, I’ve seen articles about that. One 9 year old girl in Cincinnati was killed when a branch fell on her. :(
Luigi @ 35
Then what’s the point of the primary process? Why don’t we just give her the nomination because Chris Matthews has declared her the front runner? Jeez Lou-eez. Get a grip. Are we sheep?
time to get up and at ‘em… it is going to be a very strange day without our Fitz fix…
lina @ 70
I for one do not want Chris Matthews to pick the Democratic nominee.
I sometimes think Hillary’s being hyped because the nut-wingers have been planning their attacks for years, books and everything. Why waste good money?
If it’s all on Bush, how does Hillary explain her support for the war? She supported the war! How can that not be a mistake? Let’s face it, the Democrats, including and especially Hillary, let us all down when they authorized Bush to go to war. They were afraid to stand up to Bush after 9/11. They were afraid to stand up for their true principles because they thought they would look soft on terrorism. Or maybe Hillary and her ilk have no principles, except for political expediency. In any event the Dems appeared fearful and cowardly.
Dru — that article from Common Dreams you cited is from February 2003.
It’s damned hard to pick the one and only quote he gave from that article and pin him down on it. You’ll also note that the author also said, “There are indications, however, that Dean’s position on Israel and Palestine is not firm.” IN 2003.
Isn’t it at all possible that AIPAC helped tank Dean because his position was fluid?
I hope someone at this mornings pc asks Cluster*uck about Scooter’s GJ testimony, that DeadEye and Cluster*uck ordered him to leak the classified identify of a CIA agent.
Luigi @ 35
I don’t believe we can win if hillary is our candidate.
best to air the laundry and harden her camapaign now so she’s prepared if she does win the nomination
Our Mideast policy is an egregious disaster (sorry eg).
The war is the most visible piece of the disaster, but not the defining feature.
The damage goes deeper.
Anyone who cannot clearly annunciate and repudiate the mistakes of the past has no place in the decisions of the future.
Luigi @
35
She wants to be a Dem president, so isn’t it her job to represent us, and not our job to represent her?
Based on the sentiments in this thread and elsewhere, I think it’s clear that the biggest single issue we need to tackle isn’t winning the White House.
It’s winning a veto-proof majority in both houses of Congress, so that no matter the occupant in the White House, we are able to continue to fix the disasters of the Bush years and make progress on helping our nation regain its footing.
from Raw Story.
Al Gore still thinking about a run
http://www.rawstory.com//news/….._0214.html
Now Im one who would love to see Al run. Anyone but Hillary.
We’ve had enough Dynasties
HotFlash @ 78
Oh, that’s just crazy talk! Jump aboard the celebrity personality media train and abandon all individual thought!
my apologies for being late to the party…please excuse me for not having read all the comments yet… but wanted to add this very much on-topic bit…. ‘cuz HRC’s position wrt iran and nukes is worse than i thought.
just got this afsc article via a friend who sent it out to the local peace listserv. there’s no link, so here’s the whole thing (copyright is not an issue):
note — bolding is mine for emphasis.
#82 Selise–Thanks for that piece. Truly disturbing.
Rayne @
74
I’m with you on this, and how this tracks back to Pach’s premise that Emmanuel, Schumer, and the Democratic Cool Kids don’t represent what’s going on outside the Beltway. Governor Dean’s tenure as DNC chair has been a direct rebuff to the DLC and their centralized control of candidate selection and management.
The different question of the influence of AIPAC is one that really, really needs to be addressed. Your comment at 50 gets it right.
Rayne @ 79
Bingo, General Rayne.
ok, trying to be good, but just can no longer resist -
o/t
al-Sadr’s “fled” to Iran meme
compare these 2 w/ the drivel you heard on the teevee this morning -
Tet for tat
Nancy Drew and The Missing Cleric
scory (84) — I’m going to stick my neck out and say that I’m not certain Dean didn’t have a “minder” in 2003-2004. Dean’s spouse Dr. Judy attracted their attention because he might be sympathetic, but when he couldn’t be “managed”, they trashed and bailed on him.
Sad. I know he would have done the right thing.
Re 82:
I think it is a bit disingenous to imply that “No options are off the table.” leads to “threatening nuclear genocide”.
The right does it to us all the time: lowering the budget deficit options? “No options are off the table.” leads to “They want to raise your taxes.”
Hillary doesn’t want to be caught in a John Kerry ‘voted for/against the war’ moment, so she’s not saying her vote was a mistake. She doesn’t understand that she’ll lose more support by not admitting her mistake.
mack @ 77
Seriously I WANT you guys to use this word. That’s the whole point.
Mike @ 87
The ‘nuclear option’ should be off the table. Period. If she does not say that she does not get my vote, it’s that simple.
For the record I never post under my real name.
egregious @ 91
Are you telling us that in confidence?
“It is a gnawing, painful sore,” she said of Iraq. “People are beside themselves with frustration, and I understand that completely.
That cuts it. A “gnawing painful sore” doesn’t begin to describe the hell she has helped unleash in Iraq. And frustrating? That’s the standard descriptor Bush is always using to describe people’s freakin OUTRAGE at what’s happening with our tax dollars.
Show me the OUTRAGE, woman. But then, you can’t even admit you made a MISTAKE.
Don’t waste our time!
Rayne @ 74
Yes it is possible. Just pointing out that he has expressed support for that org. which shall land me in moderation. And I’m aware of the date; that is when he was campaigning :)
How can she expect to hold this administration accountable, when she won’t be held accountable herself?
This country is gasping for some bold, honest leadership and Clinton is just more of the same old crap.
A grand opportunity awaits us in 2008 and if we get more of this god damned inside-the-beltway myopic leadership…. sigh
I don’t know about smart, but how about true: Lamont lost. The Clintons have a proven track record of winning elections.
This wasn’t clear enough?
TILTON (2/10/07): I want to know if right here, right now, once and for all, without nuance, you can say that that war authorization vote was a mistake…The reason I ask personally is because I, and I think a lot of other Democratic primary voters, until we hear you say that, we’re not going to hear all these other great things you’re saying.
CLINTON: Well, I have said, and I will repeat it, that, knowing what I know now, I would never have voted for it. [audience applause] But I also—and, I mean, obviously you have to weigh everything as you make your decision. I have taken responsibility for my vote. The mistakes were made by this president, who misled this country and this Congress into a war that should not have been waged.
What she is saying is correct, IMHO. Obama has plenty of non-progressive ghosts in his closet, too. It works to the wingers advantage when dumb dems use the rightwing abuse tactics on eachother.
Far more serious is her neo-con saber rattling with Iran. She’s as bad as Lie-berman. HRC was asked if she thought it would be fair to subject Iranian women and children to nuclear warfare and she replied that all options must be kept on the table. Contrast that!
kennyp
kennethp @ 98
The question is not what she knows now, but what she could have known then. If she read the classified NIE before the vote, she would have known then what she knows now. She needs to be explain her lack of due diligence on such an important vote.
CLINTON: Well, I have said, and I will repeat it, that, knowing what I know now, I would never have voted for it.
kennyp asks: This wasn’t clear enough?
Anyone dumb enough to trust Bush to begin with should be running for a Darwin Award, not the presidency.
All snark aside, let’s grant that she was as aware as the 22 other Dem Senators who voted against the war authorization that the evidence didn’t add up. But instead made a calculated political move with an eye to her 2008 run for the presidency, though one that has turned out to be wrong.
What that tells me is that she recognizes that the Big Boys will never support anyone for President who doesn’t reserve the unconstitutional power of the President to take the country to war protect their investments in a pinch, without the bother of a Congressional debate and approval. Her husband would have taught her that. Even Kerry argued for that power when running in ‘04.
This also explains why she won’t admit her vote was a mistake, since it would undermine that position.
Restoring the constitutional power of Congress to declare war is becoming something of a sine qua non for me in supporting a presidential candidate.
Prairie Sunshine @
9
Woah! The Democratic Party was doing the “let’s focus on just the races we think we can win” thing LONG before Bill Clinton came along. He was only in the WH 2 years when that strategy fell through the floor in ‘94. Just because he was in the WH when it happened, don’t blame him. He was in Arkansas 95% of the time that was developing, having no influence at all upon DC politics. Dont’ go blaming him for what the DLC was doing for decades, letting the Party rot except in their strongholds. THAT was why the GOP was able to get traction in ‘94. Clinton didn’t do anything to change direction, but neither did any of his predecessors.
Why are you heaping all that on his shoulders? Got a rash against Hillary, do we?
Bill was the most effective President we’ve had in my lifetime. I was never a fan of his, nor an enemy. Later I saw how much he did to balance the damned budget, military and non-military, and after the 12 years of Reagan-Bush spending sprees, that was maybe the biggest Presidential accomplishment in the 20th century. Even during Lewinsky-gate and the impeachment, his popularity was sky high.
His coattail is still strong 8 years later. ANY Dem in ‘08 will kick the GOP’s ass, but which candidate will govern best? There will be 8 years of doofus-f*ck-brain sheit to undo, and just any old Dem won’t do: THIS one will have to FIX the government. That will take some huge nads, and Hillary has ones as big as any.
Would I vote for her? Yep. Obama? Yep. Edwards? You bet. But which one will have the steel ones to get the job done?
In general, why should HRC point at herself and say SHE f*cked up, when it was Bush who lied. Whay should ANY of the candidates say, “Aw, shucks, Folks! I screwed up by believing that the information the President had was better than I had, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.”
When you’ve been victimized by the patriotic BS extortion that was going then – as the whole country was – why should you say, “I am sorry I was a victim”?
NO.
The issue is Bush and the lies, not who was victimized by those lies.
Pectopah @
99
SteveGinIL @
102
Leaders take responsibility. If she wants to say she’s a victim, she should go on Oprah and write a personal memior, and stop pretending to be a leader.