Valley Girl @ 45

Eli #38- obviously not as well as might be expected, but the discussion at the end of today, Walton report tomorrow, made me wonder if they hadn’t managed a minor sleight of hand.

I doubt that Fitz’s resources were particularly overextended, but “sleight of hand” is probably more accurate – the whole thing sounded like it was some kind of feint so that Fitz would assume that Libby would take the stand, and strategize accordingly (and incorrectly).

No, the CIPA hearings were an incredible amount of work for Team Fitz and the relvant agency lawyers. For every hour of work Team Irving did for those hearings. Team Fitz and the agency lawyers probaly did 20 0r 30 hours.

This was just a pure greymail ploy

In the search for who is culpable for outing a NOC CIA agent the issue most discussed in this thread is who KNEW she was a NOC, rather than just an analyst whom ‘everybody knew’ worked for the CIA.

Of course, Cheney found out somewhere along the way she was involved in sending Joe Wilson to Niger. I’d suppose he found out she was NOC at that time too.

When did others in the White House learn she was NOC? What did they know and when did they know it?

Is it possible Cheney would’ve found out and NOT told the other leakers or “The Prez”?

There’s probably some kind of paper trail involved here, but some would just be personal notes (like the op-ed with notes written on it) which indicated a conversation. It could be hard to pin down specifically when (or if) one person told another one she was NOC and that it wouldn’t be wise ot leak her identity after learning that.

There is also the more-or-less objective testimony of those to whom it was leaked. If they say they were specifically told she worked at the CIA it’s one thing, but if they were told she was covert, then there’s a case. And, if they were told she was covert, then one could expect Fitz to be questioning the leaker as to when and how they first learned she was covert. The loose thread ends could be followed back to the ‘leaker-in-chief’.

I am going to have 2 MAJOR withdrawl problems next week:

#1 No more end of the trial day videos summing up, so perfectly, what happened. I don’t know how you do it without very extensive editing.

#2 Al Franken leaving Air America. I listen to him every day while repeating over and over, “Do NOT hit F5 yet, do NOT hit F5 yet” for the latest trial update.

What I am really going to miss about the loss of Franken is his very intelligent interviews with the experts that I so highly respect. Where will we hear Oliphant now? or Ornstein? I am really depressed about this.

Anybody else?

I agree with you absolutely. Plus Joe Conason and Lawrence O’Donnell. I have enjoyed hearing voices that were so authentically honest sounding. The difference between Joe Conason and a Judy Miller or a Timmeh is so stark. The thing I enjoyed about O’Donnell is his insider’s knowledge of how Congress actually works.

The Live Blogging is so addictive. How on earth will I feed that craving next week? Oh dear, oh dear. ;-)

Funnier yet to think they spent millions on this, and on Babs Comstock as part of the deal. What’s the ROI on Babs anyhow?

But funniest yet to think that Jane scared the bejabbers out of Scooter-n-Shooter, to the point where they won’t testify.

I think Tenet’s right-hand man McLaughlin may have given away the store (Mrs. Wilson’s status) to a bombastic Cheney. Sad to even think that.

After parsing through the trial comment threads from the last few weeks, my suspicion is that there are a commentor or two from the Agency and/or close to the prosecution. Possibly using a cut-out of course. I wish i had the time to go back and pick up the examples as cites, but i do have daily responsibilities and probably can’t. I should have done it as i went along, but this realization dawned slowly on me. (Perhaps i’m dense, or way off base.)

anyway, pow wow @ 102 stimulated some thoughts:
The two and a half months of unrelenting, brutal, detailed drudgery that made up the CIPA process, was all about the graymail effort to avoid going to trial, by trying to force a dismissal over classified evidence. Obviously, however, that graymail effort failed completely to reach its goal (though it was nip and tuck for awhile). The con about Libby testifying was vital to that graymail effort, and Libby and Co. played it for all it was worth, and Judge Walton indeed bent over backward to accommodate them. Nevertheless, all the defense money and all the defense lawyers failed in their year-long effort to derail this trial, and we have an extremely dedicated Intelligence Community declassification team and Special Counsel team to thank for that very significant achievement.

Bingo! Then comes a belief that this case was as much about defending Cheney. Then this:

Jane – I really appreciated your take yesterday in the wrap-up video about the rehearsed, unnatural impression Novak’s testimony gave, which you’ve also mentioned in this post. I know I wanted Fitzgerald to just light into that guy on the stand, six ways from Sunday, but realize that that would have been tangential to the charges at hand. Unlike EW, I have to believe that Fitzgerald is not counting on Bob Novak to be a prosecution witness in future – Novak is impossible to believe on anything of substance in this investigation, and would be thoroughly discredited in any intense cross-examination, but I do hope he will somehow yet get publicly exposed and humiliated for the craven political operator and liar that he is.

I’d like to believe that an overarching part of this trial is the court of public opinion, of which the Agency has some familiarity. While i personally believe there is more to come from Team Fitz, possibly because i WANT there to be more to come, i’ll wait to see where this is going.

I think it’s clear to suppose that our counter-proliferation efforts were seriously damaged by the Plame leak, and that it’s not just the mother of twins who’s pissed. I suspect there are incredible battles going on behind the scenes, and we are witnessing only the tip of the iceberg. I only hope it’s the one that will take down Cheney’s Titanic.

I’m biased, because i believe amurka is already “in the last throes” of dying empire, but if there’s to be a chance for a Phoenix to turn it’s piercing eye here, Impeachment and Treason and Prison have to be back on the table.

So many nasty things have been done by the Agency in my lifetime in my name, i would never have thought i would be egging them on to hit the dinger and drive amurka back to life. But then we’ve never faced an enemy of such vile deceit. And they, or at least the faction Amb. Wilson’s wife represents, represent one of our last bastions of hope for a return to freedom and democracy.

Take it to the bank that Congressmen Waxman and Conyers are not operating in a vacuum. And Team Fitz, even if i’m an idiot and you’re acting on your own, please don’t stop here. To have my faith in democracy restored, i need to see some bad people squirm.

We are all now part of this tapistry…However My deep fear is the wheels of gov.are moveing too slow to stop the group of neocon/facist who,if not stopped, will destroy our country
Fitz is doing his part ,as only a truly rightous man can do…and their are many,now, who have the power to put the brakes to the powerfull forces bush and cheny have unleashed.But it takes time,and time I fear is something in short supply.I’ll say it again,We hit Iran,life as we have known it in America will be finished.Bush and cheny are so full of hubris it would be absurd theater if it wasnt tragic reality.My fear is a power grab,martial law,and a end to the world we know.This will end badly,if we dont see a LOT of bad people squirm

anyway, pow wow @ 102 stimulated some thoughts:
The two and a half months of unrelenting, brutal, detailed drudgery that made up the CIPA process, was all about the graymail effort to avoid going to trial, by trying to force a dismissal over classified evidence. Obviously, however, that graymail effort failed completely to reach its goal (though it was nip and tuck for awhile). The con about Libby testifying was vital to that graymail effort, and Libby and Co. played it for all it was worth, and Judge Walton indeed bent over backward to accommodate them. Nevertheless, all the defense money and all the defense lawyers failed in their year-long effort to derail this trial, and we have an extremely dedicated Intelligence Community declassification team and Special Counsel team to thank for that very significant achievement.

Bingo! Then comes a belief that this case was as much about defending Cheney. Then this:

Jane – I really appreciated your take yesterday in the wrap-up video about the rehearsed, unnatural impression Novak’s testimony gave, which you’ve also mentioned in this post. I know I wanted Fitzgerald to just light into that guy on the stand, six ways from Sunday, but realize that that would have been tangential to the charges at hand. Unlike EW, I have to believe that Fitzgerald is not counting on Bob Novak to be a prosecution witness in future – Novak is impossible to believe on anything of substance in this investigation, and would be thoroughly discredited in any intense cross-examination, but I do hope he will somehow yet get publicly exposed and humiliated for the craven political operator and liar that he is.

I’d like to believe that an overarching part of this trial is the court of public opinion, of which the Agency has some familiarity. While i personally believe there is more to come from Team Fitz, possibly because i WANT there to be more to come, i’ll wait to see where this is going.

I think it’s clear to suppose that our counter-proliferation efforts were seriously damaged by the Plame leak, and that it’s not just the mother of twins who’s pissed. I suspect there are incredible battles going on behind the scenes, and we are witnessing only the tip of the iceberg. I only hope it’s the one that will take down Cheney’s Titanic.

I’m biased, because i believe amurka is already “in the last throes” of dying empire, but if there’s to be a chance for a Phoenix to turn it’s piercing eye here, Impeachment and Treason and Prison have to be back on the table.

So many nasty things have been done by the Agency in my lifetime in my name, i would never have thought i would be egging them on to hit the dinger and drive amurka back to life. But then we’ve never faced an enemy of such vile deceit. And they, or at least the faction Amb. Wilson’s wife represents, represent one of our last bastions of hope for a return to freedom and democracy.

Take it to the bank that Congressmen Waxman and Conyers are not operating in a vacuum. And Team Fitz, even if i’m an idiot and you’re acting on your own, please don’t stop here. To have my faith in democracy restored, i need to see some bad people squirm.