
Tristero's post over at my place from earlier today about General Peter Pace's divergence from the administration's talking points may illuminate some of the backchannel infighting going on in the Bush administration over Iran. Here's the nut:
A top U.S. general said Tuesday there was no evidence the Iranian government was supplying Iraqi insurgents with highly lethal roadside bombs, apparently contradicting claims by other U.S. military and administration officials.
Now, we don't know what this really means. It could be that they are playing some sort of elaborate good cop/bad cop routine. (God help us — these people are not very good at complicated tasks.) Or it could be a real revolt of the generals. We can't know for sure. But we do know that as much as a year ago, the administration has been actively planning to attack Iran and the generals have been resisting. Here's Seymour Hersh from April 2006:
There is a growing conviction among members of the United States military, and in the international community, that President Bush’s ultimate goal in the nuclear confrontation with Iran is regime change. Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has challenged the reality of the Holocaust and said that Israel must be “wiped off the map.” Bush and others in the White House view him as a potential Adolf Hitler, a former senior intelligence official said. “That’s the name they’re using. They say, ‘Will Iran get a strategic weapon and threaten another world war?’ ”
A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the Pentagon said that Bush was “absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the bomb” if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do “what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do,” and “that saving Iran is going to be his legacy.”
One former defense official, who still deals with sensitive issues for the Bush Administration, told me that the military planning was premised on a belief that “a sustained bombing campaign in Iran will humiliate the religious leadership and lead the public to rise up and overthrow the government.” He added, “I was shocked when I heard it, and asked myself, ‘What are they smoking?’ ”
I have believed for some time that the Bush administration is intent upon attacking Iran because they believe that their unpopularity will be redeemed by history for having taken great, bold steps to transform the middle east. The more Iraq looks like a cock-up of epic proportions that results in nothing more than chaos and death, the less likely it is that their "vision" will come to pass. And so they rely more and more on the "big" thinkers who set us on this path many years ago: the neoconservatives who cooked up a document for Israeli politician Benjamin Netanyahu years ago. A document called "A Clean Break", which many people, including Ambassador Joseph Wilson, have pointed to as the guiding document that took us first into Iraq — and now maybe Iran.
For those of you who may be foggy on the details, I would highly recommend that you read this very interesting neocon primer by Craig Unger in this month's Vanity Fair. It was, at one time, considered to be crazed moonbat conspiracy mongering to talk about "Clean Break." Today those of us who were writing about it prior to the Iraq invasion have been vidicated by events. We were not being hysterical then and we are not hysterical now:
The neoconservatives have had Iran in their sights for more than a decade. On July 8, 1996, Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's newly elected prime minister and the leader of its right-wing Likud Party, paid a visit to the neoconservative luminary Richard Perle in Washington, D.C. The subject of their meeting was a policy paper that Perle and other analysts had written for an Israeli-American think tank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic Political Studies. Titled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," the paper contained the kernel of a breathtakingly radical vision for a new Middle East. By waging wars against Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, the paper asserted, Israel and the U.S. could stabilize the region. Later, the neoconservatives argued that this policy could democratize the Middle East.
"It was the beginning of thought," says Meyrav Wurmser, an Israeli-American policy expert, who co-signed the paper with her husband, David Wurmser, now a top Middle East adviser to Dick Cheney. Other signers included Perle and Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense for policy during George W. Bush's first term. "It was the seeds of a new vision."
Netanyahu certainly seemed to think so. Two days after meeting with Perle, the prime minister addressed a joint session of Congress with a speech that borrowed from "A Clean Break." He called for the "democratization" of terrorist states in the Middle East and warned that peaceful means might not be sufficient. War might be unavoidable.
Netanyahu also made one significant addition to "A Clean Break." The paper's authors were concerned primarily with Syria and Saddam Hussein's Iraq, but Netanyahu saw a greater threat elsewhere. "The most dangerous of these regimes is Iran," he said.
Ten years later, "A Clean Break" looks like nothing less than a playbook for U.S.-Israeli foreign policy during the Bush-Cheney era. Many of the initiatives outlined in the paper have been implemented-removing Saddam from power, setting aside the "land for peace" formula to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, attacking Hezbollah in Lebanon-all with disastrous results.
Nevertheless, neoconservatives still advocate continuing on the path Netanyahu staked out in his speech and taking the fight to Iran. As they see it, the Iraqi debacle is not the product of their failed policies. Rather, it is the result of America's failure to think big. "It's a mess, isn't it?" says Meyrav Wurmser, who now serves as director of the Center for Middle East Policy at the Hudson Institute. "My argument has always been that this war is senseless if you don't give it a regional context."
That is the argument that's clearly driving Bush and Cheney today. They have nothing else. Cheney is melting down on national television. Bush in his bubble is as detached and oblivious as ever. I believe that we are at a point where the only things standing between us and the order to attack Iran are the generals. (Forget congress — they can't even pass a toothless resolution against the "surge" in less than a couple of months. The "surge" will have already failed by the time they even stage a uselss protest.) And that is about the scariest thing, out of many scary things, I've contemplated since the beginning of the Bush administration. We are now in a Strangelovian bizarroworld where we must count on General Buck Turgidson to refuse to follow orders. Holy Moly.
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Digby in the house!
Yeehaw.
Ugh.
Welcome Digby!
This is very scary. Imagine — the progressives agitating for peaceful solutions finding themselves allied with the warriors.
Digby!
Welcome.
Yo Digby! Great to see ya at the ‘Lake.
Not “A Clean Break?” — no, more like
“A Cancerous Infected Multiply-Fractured Misadventure.“
BushCo: magical thinking only
The truth is not in them. Nor is reason.
Digby said:
Must’ve been a typo. Didn’t you mean to say Holy Molly Ivins?
Digby!
No one says it as well as you do.
But now, what do WE do? It almost seems inevitable.
Whoo-hooo!!
We heart Digby.
Ms Digby, greetings (curtsies).
Welcome Digby!
Here’s what I say to the anonymous “briefers” in Iraq about weapons made in Iran.
Yeah. My neigbor’s car was made in Michigan. Must be Bush is supplying him with transportation.
This Iran thing is seriously scary.
Okay, Digby, the General Buck Turgidson line totally freaked me out, especially after reading the Vanity Fair article earlier today.
What a mess.
See, the problem is that the ‘backchannel infighting’ never seems to have any effect whatsoever on ChimpCo.
Other than perhaps convincing Bush to move ahead in/to spite the fighters.
There needs to be meaningful and binding consequences for bad behavior by Commander Codpiece and his CheneyMail suit.
Wish I knew how.
TeddySanFran @ 3
It’s not really such a far stretch. Many of the people here at the Lake have served their country in various ways, and who better than warriors to know the proper uses and costs of war.
But, seriously, if anyone were to declare martial law or anything here in the US, I think it’d be done by contractors and the cash has already been set aside for the purpose. Neatly wrapped.
TRex @
9
I’ll second that, but with enthusiasm. :~)
These days I keep going back to Josh Marshall’s “Practice to Deceive” written way, way back in April 2003.
“Chaos in the Middle East is not the Bush hawks’ nightmare scenario–it’s their plan. “
http://www.washingtonmonthly.c…..shall.html
Don’t be shocked when military people do the right thing. Think about what some former military men, such as Hagel, Murtha, Webb, Kerry, Kerrey, Al Gore (!) and Max Cleland, have been saying. Remember that General Pace openly contradicted Rumsfeld on camera on a few occasions, and let’s don’t forget that LCDR Charles Swift, of Hamden fame, was a military lawyer (until he was sandbagged by the Navy, but that just underscores how devoted to the ideal of justice Swift was). When my son, a Marine JAG, joined the CT Civil Liberties Union, one of its members asked him how a warrior could also be a civil libertarian. My son’s answer says it all. He said: “I’ve taken an oath to die for the constitution if I have to, how about you?”
If push comes to shove, I can only hope (along with Digby) that some patriotic Naval Officers with conscience and honor, faced with illegal Preznitial orders to launch nuclear cruise missles from their carrier groups against Iran, will find a way to simply refuse. Because if they do NOT refuse, they will be setting off Mutual Assured Destruction. Maybe not that day, maybe not the next, but someday soon.
Digby, one of the things that freaks me out is that congress, as you put it, “can’t even pass a toothless resolution against the “surge” in less than a couple of months’.
Hear, hear! And I cannot see what is holding them up. I don’t think it’s just incompetence. My momma used to say, “Where there’s a will there’s a way.” It seems they can find no way, so I assume they have no will. So, if they aren’t trying to stop the war, what are they trying to do? Any thoughts on this?
Wouldn’t it be great if the Higher Ups in our armed forces refused illegal orders!
I want a footnote for that. *g*
Per CNN, al-Sadr has flown the coop to Iran.
And he thinks he’s safer there?
S.O.S. in MA @
5
Right.
It’s a COMPOUND FRACTURE.
I should probably be clear that my rather ironic trepidations about the generals do not come from the idea that I think generals are bad people. It’s because our system of government is based on the idea of civilian rule.
I’ve never in my life actively hoped that the military fails to follow the civilian leadership. But then I’ve never been in a position where the civilian leadership was certifiably nuts either.
And hi everybody!
Balrog @ 22
Oh jeez, what a crock. So, Iran is so evil they’re supplying all sides with ammo/cash/ieds. (some unnamed sao’s say)
Smells of desperation, doesn’t it? They’ll do anything to sell this pig.
Congress is full of Republicans that are trying to undermine any attempt to reign in Bush. Especially, the Senate is half GOP. Congress is a deliberative body. Nothing they do is ever fast. This is the good and bad of a democracy. Bush is still very powerful and Congress has to challenge Mr Bush in a way that gets the results we want which is out of Iraq. Rash actions could end up giving Bush more rather than less support for his Iraq policy. We already saw the Republicans block debate in the Senate. Pelosi and the House are stepping in to start the process. This was never going to happen overnight. Unloading on the Congressional Dems when it is Bush and the Republicans in Congress that are blocking progress in counterproductive. We should be unloading on the Republicans in Congress for blocking progress.
digby @ 24
Hi back atcha, digby! Thanks for being here, and writing such an urgent message for us.
What was the name of that paper Colin Powell (it was Powell, IIRC) was involved with, presented to the War College, about a coup led by the military to restore constitutional order?
Kathy @ 20
I am sure that every general and admiral in this counry has considered the scenario of a revolt, of mutiny or military coup. It’s done around the world, throughout history as well as in books and movies.. They’d be really dumb if they hadn’t ever considered the situation happening for real. I hope and pray that on that day the generals are like Terry Kindlon’s son.
Speaking of attacking Iran, how are the American people supposed to finance the war machine if they shut the government down for an inch of snow?
A Clean Break?
not one of these warhawks has a clean beak.
urban pirate @
25
Tomorrow’s video of al-Sadr stumbling out of the Baghdad Hard Rock Cafe will receive NO coverage by the MSM.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 29
Ah, but you notice Congress and the lawyers (and the Court) kept on working…
The respective armed services commities of the House and Senate should call the Joint Chiefs and the head of Centcom in front of them. The Generals should be reminded in the strongest possible terms that their oaths are to the Constitution and not the President, that an attack on Iran without Congressional approval would be illegal and that if they carried out illegal orders they would be subject to prosecution not only domestically, but in the Hague.
A clean break! Let’s celebrate by using secret CIA war-on-terruh money to pay for hookers!
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002565.php
oh yeah, THAT should get some cable news airtime.
OT am jumping into thread without reading yet-haven’t caught up yet.
but wanted people to know
charlie rose tonight:
Tuesday, February 13 PBS
Iranian UN ambassador Javad Zarif is interviewed.
digby @ 24
Hearty cheering from 5,358 commenters and lurkers (I checked the site meter)
tejanarusa- Good point.
TerryKindlon @
17
May your son come home whole and soon. We are all grateful for his service and appreciative of your family’s sacrifice…
There is an incredibly powerful diary over at DailyKos about a soldier who was horribly injured and disfigured in Iraq and came home to marry his fiance. Absolutely heartwrenching.
We must do everything we can to end the war in Iraq and prevent war with Iran.
I have included a link to the diary below, but I must strongly warn you that it contains links to images that will shock and haunt you. If you choose to view them, you may regret doing so.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/13/01140/8342
Seven Days in May, where the military are the good guys?
Wow.
What’s funny is that the now-infamous New York Times story read like Mossad disseminated disinformation to me. I know that to assert Israel’s role in American foreign policy is to invite the charge of anti-semitism and anti-Zionism. But I think Mearsheimer and Walt identified it clearly, and I can’t help but think after reading “A Clean Break” and the list of its authors just how deep and deleterious is Israel’s role in shaping American foreign policy.
bob @ 40
Illustrating, I think, that context does, indeed, matter….
Hi, Digby. Thanks for the post, and thanks for being here.
I think this is On Topic:
MUQTADA AL SADR, IRAQ’S MOST POWERFUL MILITIA LEADER, HAS FLED TO IRAN FEARING A U.S. AIR STRIKE, MILITARY OFFICIALS TELL ABC NEWS.
Read the complete story at:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Iraq…..id=2872953
digby @ 24
Hi Digby! Great post. I wish there was a way to create a virtual “safe house” where active duty commanders could vent and assess their options. From what I’ve read, some of these officers love their branch of the service as much as they love their own families. And I suspect they view this administration’s insanity the way we would view someone senselessly putting one of our loved ones in harms way.
Hi Digby!
Nice to see you over here.
I can think of nothing better for us dirty f*cking hippies to do between now and the 2008 elections besides
highspotlighting the similiarties between the rush to lie us into war with Iraq and the rush to lie us into war with Iran.bob @
40
Here’s one – albeit retired – of the good ones
…and BTW she’s a gal!
An Appeal to Conscience to Those Who Would Bomb Iran
US Army Reserves Colonel (Retired) Ann Wright
_____________________________________________________________________________
And Hi Digby! 14 years of commuting by your Ocean Park mail stop – if I’d a known what great work was connected, I’d have waved.
(waving from SF…)
Everythingseemssoneat @ 29
It’s actually sleet and freezing rain. And the Feds made the right decision. Living in Washington, I’ll attest how treacherous this area can be with freezing rain.
Vanity Fair and Digby, a powerful team! I’m afraid that I’ve become a bit more cynical. I don’t actually believe this sort of thing anymore:
I think they can’t let go of all that oil under Iraq and Iran – the “oil corridor.” That’s why they went. That’s why they stayed. That’s why they’re “surging.” That’s the why of Iran. I don’t doubt that what you say is true of the idealogogue neoconservatives in the think-tanks. But I’m talking about the bottom-feeders, Dick Cheney and his pal George W. Bush.
surfk9 @ 33
It is a dilemma for the military. Their oath is to Constitution but the POTUS is the Commander-in-Chief. This is the kernel of the Ehren Watada court martial. And the military side-stepped the issue with the phony mistrial declaration
I am not sure that threatening is the way to go here — I mean, they have guns ;) — but certainly, the legal situation should be made clear. Constitutional lawyers, military lawyers, a ton of lawyers, a joint panel with Congresscritters. So they are clear about their duty wrt Legislative and Executive branches if push comes to shove. Soon would be good.
I just skimmed through the Vanity Fair article. Very depressing, not to mention frightening.
By the end of February, they will have the forces in place to attack Iran, concludes one of the article’s sources.
So we have about two weeks to get Congress/the generals/the people to stop this…
Bush and his friggin’ legacy.
His legacy is already set in stone.
WORST PRESIDENT EVER!
Find a new hobby George. This one is going to bite your whole family in the ass.
Forever.
surfk9 @ 33
Hear, Hear!
The impression here is that Bibi will be the next PM of Israel and there there will be an attack on Iran, by Israel or the Uninted States, or both. The decision, for a variety of reasons, has been made along these lines, at the highest levels.
tejanarusa @
32
… as did the FDL live-bloggers!
digby, your the top. Gracious under fire, fastidious with your facts, and intellectually honest in your presentation.
regards …
digby, I think what you may be suggesting is that war is too important to be left to the politicians… and a thank-you to IMDB:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0057012/quotes
bit of a change of context now, but I sure hope some intelligent generals out there are reaching the same conclusion…
If Cheney and Rove skate, as expected, on this Plame thing, then it’s all Iran.
Not to be a wet blanket, but
I am very uncomfortable with the idea of the military refusing to obey civilian ocntrol.
That being said, they used to regularly tell Bill Clinton that “it couldn’t be done” when he wanted to strike.
Maybe a little labor union type “work to rules” action might be OK
digby @ 24
Hi, Digby, I just had to say, gotta agree with you there. Kathy at 20 said:
and I thought, yeah, it’d be great, but it’d also be illegal and a court martial offense. It’d never hold unless many of them did it in unison, in which case it would be called a coup d’etat. I guess that’s why they call it quagmire.
from Col. Anan Wright’s Appeal:
“While refusal to drop bombs may initially draw punishment and the loss of one’s military career, those who refuse will save their soul, their conscience and will prevent another criminal action in the name of our country by the Bush administration.”
Wow.
Where was this published, Kirk?
And what excuse will the politicians use to go along with the Bush Administration decision to bomb Iran?
scory @ 48
It’s a matter of what your norm is, and response to same. I grew up (allegedly) in D.C. A quarter of an inch of snow would indeed cause the city to freak out.
We got to a level 1 here in Columbus, south of the city was level 2 (level 3 and you can be arrested for driving when only emergency vehicles should be on the road).
So. That is 8 inches of accumulation, and freezing rain (I walked home from work as usual, but couldn’t shut the dumbrella…it had a frozen cap. so I just left it in the hallway to thaw).
Kirk murphy- “14 years of commuting by your Ocean Park mail stop – if I’d a known what great work was connected, I’d have waved.”
That brings back memories, tower 26 off of Ocean Park was my favorite Dogtown surf spot.
looseheadprop @
44
If he was fearing an air strike, wouldn’t he go to Ibiza and not Iran?
though i’m fearing an air strike, and the consequences?
Digby:
Sounds positively third-wordly, doesn’t it?
Oh, for a good palace revolt!
Ministers! To the heli-pad!
(Ahh, but what I wouldn’t give to see a moving van pulling up to the White House, ala 1974… a prison bus would be preferred, though…)
Dodd is telling us on “Hardball” that he’s very skeptical on administration calls to attack Iran.
The ’surge’ was probably always intended as reinforcements, force protection against repurcussens from the pre-ordained attack against Iran.
Protect the supply lines running through Shia dominated southern Iraq, protect the green zone from being overrun,
strafe Sadr city from the air, thats your surge.
Now I thought that referencing “A Clean Break” got one laughed out of the room as a conspiracy theorist, and the moderators got all excited and started purging posts.
Is it ok to mention “The PNAC said what America needed was “a new Pearl Harbor.””
(from Juan Cole, http://www.juancole.com/2005/0…..e-and.html)
I hope they don’t think the need another new Pearl Harbor as pretext for their attack on Iran, and I hope people who recognize the unprecedented evil in power in most other respects like corruption, civil liberties, theft of elections, will take a re-appraisal of the official myths of 9-11.
Senator Chris Dodd on Hardball: I am very skeptical about this drumbeat for war [speaking about the device press-conference briefing in Baghdad, and General Pace’s comments]
more, please, Senators….
looseheadprop @ 57
I hope I’m not being fractious, but under our system no person is above the law, and the officers swear to uphold the Constitution. Article VI ensures that international treaties have the force of law in the US; numerous international treaties bind the US to eschew wars of aggression,
From this perspective, I see the senior military officers as a bulwark against an illegal and unConstitutional order bu the Executive branch, so I’m at peace with the prospect of the military asserting the primacy of the Cosntitution over that of a specific illegal invasion.
But that’s just me, and what do I know about international or military law?
Olbermann is critical of the House on Iraq.
I don’t remember the bloke’s actual name, but I read recently that the most recent or a former UK ambassador to the US was asked what was the over-riding force in US foreign policy, and the fellow said simply “Israel”. At the end of the day, its all about Israel (plus big corporation free trade rights and big oil – my two cents on the subject). It explains Joe Lieberman and how he got re-elected, it explains the Clinton’s tacit support of Lieberman, it explains the neocons, it explains so much.
I really don’t know what to suggest we do. I believe in Israels’ right to exist, but holy Christ, Israel’s intractable hold on American foreign policy may lead to a Dr. Strangelove ending – one big mushroom cloud.
What are we going to do? The longer we wait the more difficult it will be to get out of this mess. Have you seen MONTY PYTHON’S THE MEANING OF LIFE, when the grim reaper is telling the americans at the dinner table that they talk too much? Maybe we need more action and less babble. Lets do something.
The only thing standing between us and possible world war is the Democrats. Somewhat scary perhaps.
tejanarusa @ 59
Merde! I dropped the link – mea culpa.
Col Wright’s article is on truthout.
Hope you guys are ok with the limited info I blogged today. It was an overwhelming experience. I am learning to limit the amount of overwhelm in my life so I can keep what’s left of my mental equilibrium. Back in the saddle tomorrow. Til then,
Love and cookies,
—————-egregious
Not really OT:
Wow again – I just got an email from Ned Lamont (still on the email list from my measly contribution last summer) – urging signing on as a “citizen co-sponsor” of Sen. Dodd’s bill to restore Habeas Corpus.
Or is that just something that would make us feel like we did something, without having any effect? What do y’all firepups think?
Re #76 — Limited, shmimited, Egregious. Nice woik! :)
Lady Bug @ 72
Very persuasive.
kirk murphy- “14 years of commuting by your Ocean Park mail stop – if I’d a known what great work was connected, I’d have waved.”
That brings back memories. Tower 26 off of Ocean Park used to be my surf spot/Dogtown hang out when I lived there.
looseheadprop @ 58
The military should never, never be put in this position. Our president abuses our military by sending them out a ill-equipped to fight an ill-planned and illegal war of aggression. Then we abuse them by expectimg them to rescue us? Last I knew there were still three branches of government. We should be making our elected representatives perform their duties of oversight. BushCo pulls fast one after fast one and Congress is outeverythinged every time. And don’t get me started on the Supreme Court’s dereliction of duty!
That said, I sure hope they rescue us, since it doesn’t appear that Congress is going to arrive in time.
Digby:
Yes, the big thinkers who decided that they had to fix the economy that had three surpluses in a row, by taking the government apart at the seams. And then their big idea was to put America (the world’s only remaining superpower) on the map, by picking on two of the ten poorest nations on Earth, to show everyone how tough we are – an assignment in Hegemony 101 – and succeeded in turning us into a has-been third-world “power”, complete with torture and mock trials.
Nothing like thinking big, huh, boys?
The President Clouseau administration, I presume?
God better not take them in, come the Rapture, because you know what they could do to Heaven, don’t you?
And, oh, what they would do to a wet dream!
egregious @ 76
Sometimes I become concerned about my various cuzzins. Perhaps I am over reacting here?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 66
Skeptical, how? As in bad idea, or as in they won’t do it.
Jonathan Alter reminds me of Charlie Brown.
Oh one more thing about this month’s Vanity Fair. The one article no one is talking about on the blogs is the one about the ex-Hollywood agent Pat Dollard and his creation of a pro-Iraq war documentary. A spell-binding article, it illustrates how fucking-apeshit-voices-in-the-head-muli-personality -disorder-sadisticly-hungry-for-death-and-torture these sick right wing fucks are. A monster raving loony racist drug addict, Dollard is now the favorite child of Roger Ailes of Fox, Ann Coulter and other right wing enablers with money. These people are simply twisted, bits of human beings and the Iraq war has sadly given them a platform to project their hate and neurosis and act on behaviors that normally would put them behind bars or in the loony bin.
I don’t know guys, I don’t put it past these dumb fuckers to take a punch at Iran. If they do however, it will be the end of the Fredo administration and the Republican party for a long long time.
Every Shiite in Iraq will become hostile, and we will lose many lives. It’ll make the Chosin Reservoir look like a stroll in the park.
EPU’d, but relevant. The Iran war pimps have a tough row to hoe.
HotFlash @ 84
Good question. “Won’t do it”. That is the bottom line.
tejanarusa @ 76
Can’t hoit. And if it only takes 3 minutes there’s still lots of time to do whatever else we can, whatever that is.
kirk murphy @ 69
I agree it’s a difficult analysis. But for the entire history of this country, the military has been subordinate to the civilian command.
However, that is not to say they should not speak up. They are Hatch Act employees and are somewhat constrained in the forums and manner in which they can speak, but still they can get their shots in.
The REAL PROBLEM is Congress!
We control freaking Congress and can’t even get a quick and dirty NON BINDING resolution
WTF?
egregious @ 75
Luvin’ you back EG
I don’t think the Bush Administrations arguments for global hegemony stand up to rational scrutiny.
My favorite Gen. Buck Turgidson line is: “Mr. President, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops.”
What is so odd today is that this is the way the civilian leaders are talking to the military ones.
Oh, that’s real winter weather! I grew up in Portland, OR, and every few years we would have what was called as “silver thaw” — which meant everything was covered by between a half and two inches of ice.
The only way you could travel was to have either studded snow tires or chains on all four wheels of your car. Fun stuff.
Washington’s weather hysteria just makes me laugh — and stay out of the way of everyone else.
bowing to the Oracle of Santa Monica . . .
hey Digby, thanks so much for dropping by the lake
per CNN:
until I hear from Gilliard, I’m calling BS! If anyone is in Iran waiting out the surge, it is special WH guest al-Hakim
they really think we’re all 9 year olds dont they ?!? my god , let’s see A guy we haven’t been able to catch in 3 years, a guy who can go anywhere he wants at will, is suddenly afraid of another 10K troops being sent in to Sadr City, pop. approx: 2 million
I don’t know whether to be relieved or even more terrified by the level of desperation this suggests
egregious @ 75
It was *great* ‘Grege, I felt like I was there and totally awestruck.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
For now I am protecting myself. December and January, and June-July are my danger times. Low and high respectively. I have so little available defense then. Shields are worn thru. Weak defense against the world. But now it’s February with lots of lovely sunshine. Just trying to not be overwhelmed by meeting all these great new people and seeing Fitzgerald in action.
Thx for the love and support, cousin.
Forget about Iraq and Iran. The real drama is Obama and Hillary. Is this what the MSM is now peddling?
looseheadprop @ 89
From your keyboard to the Congress’ ears, looseheadprop! :)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 98
And I was the father of Anna Nicole’s baby. Didn’t you see the martini olive in the cradle?
((((egregious!)))
so very happy for you and so very envious
heady stuff gal, glad to see you taking care of yourself
The matter of the military refusing an order deemed to be illegal is a thorny one. This administration, despite Bush saying that he “doesn’t do nuance,” has an even greater capacity for parsing language finely than did Clinton with the meaning of “is.”
That makes it more difficult for commanders to discern the nature of illegality. We’re not in a situation where orders may be given to annihilate half the world on mere whim. There’re tons of paper and evidence to be sorted through to make any evaluation on the need to attack Iran. The ostensible reasons for war offered by the administration are not sufficient justification, to my mind, and in the minds of many others, but where the military is concerned, that the commander-in-chief says that there is evidence is probably justification enough.
Those at the top have few choices, but they do have choices. Any general-staff commanders who have serious reservations have the options to retire or ask for reassignment. Those may seem like unreasonable choices, but they are choices, nevertheless, ones which the enlisted on the ground generally do not have.
What should be defining those choices is the real reason for any attack on Iran. If the attack plans include attempted assassinations of Iranian leadership from the air to effect a regime change by military means, without the approval of the international community, then there should be wholesale resignations or retirements.
However, the experience in Iraq indicates that such is not likely to happen. In both the Gulf War and the most recent invasion, a primary focus of air operations was to assassinate Hussein from the air, without any such international mandate.
All that said, it’s not the military’s job to avert war–after all, they’re trained to fight them. It’s the responsibility of that civilian management–Congress included–to weigh the need for war and to deny the President the freedom to wage war indiscriminately and unwisely. If Congress doesn’t do its job, the military can’t then be blamed for Congress’ inaction or for Congress allowing itself to be stampeded into war because of partisan considerations or political timidity.
As my driver rounded the corner to the courthouse, his newly purchased CD began playing the Prelude from Sleeping Beauty which is like my destiny song. Probably why I work in Russia. What does it mean I have no idea, just honoring the moment. It’s information that will settle somewhere in my soul. No hurry.
Mrs. K8 @ 27
Actually it was a paper by Lt. Colonel Charles Dunlap Jr. USAF who is now a Major General.
The Origins of the Military Coup of 2012
It’s actually an argument against using the military the way the Bushies are using it.
Gotta run
L8r
As we learn more about the manipulation of intelligence, deceit and hidden agendas leading up to the Iraq war, the more we need to expose the Perles, Wolfowitzes, and the neocon superstructure as true betrayers of our country. Tragically, it won’t stop the loss of life which continues daily.
I remember John McClure and Jay Adams were the best SM surfers in those days.
http://images.google.com/imgre…..n&sa=N
[Mod Note; just a heads up that the filters like shorter links and it is wise to link directly to the site, not through the google link to the site. Thanks.]
So, question for Professor Prop:
I can’t see all of Congress doing anything soon enough, but how about something like this? Could a small panel be instituted to discuss the constitutional issues?
HotFlash @
50
Ah, nuts. Certifiable, as Digby says. No matter how you slice it, it is not the military’s duty to revolt, it is Congress’ duty to impeach.
Patrick Cockburn: “Then [4 years ago] President Bush and Tony Blair claimed that Iraqis were technically advanced enough to produce long-range missiles and to be close to producing a nuclear device. Washington is now saying that Iraqis are too backward to produce an effective roadside bomb and must seek Iranian help.”
Brilliant.
speaking of doomsday-ish scenarios, I recommend this captivating piece in the Atlantic, from the summer of 2005.
When General Pace gets back to the U.S. he will say he was misquoted, taken out of context, is a team player, etc. after the Pentaton and White House explain to him what he is supposed to say. We are not going to invade Iran. With three carrier groups present at the end of the month we are going to bomb the hell out of them with the precision weaponry that has worked so well in Iraq. Collateral damage? What collateral damage?
Hey, my comments now await moderation which means I’m considered a radical which I take as a compliment in this day and age.
Oklahoma Kiddo @ 78
and
Ladybug @ 72
Israel -
read this Ray McGovern 1 pager we were all talking about earlier in the day – bet you’ll find it equally illuminating –
Ray McGovern
Scory @ 95
My husband [who grew up in Ohio] and I were out driving in the “Washington weather” today when he observed: “People in DC are scared of the snow/ice, so their reaction is either drive really slow because they are freaked, or drive really fast so you won’t be out in it too long. Neither is good.”
I was under the impression that Abrams, too, was a co-author of “Clean Break.”
The thing that hasn’t gotten any attention in the MSM (or enough in the blog-o-sphere) is the fact that they have set up a new version of the Iraq Group operating under Cheney, this time it’s the Iran Syria Group.
Laura Rozen has done some great reporting on it. Time to shine a light on it.
john in sacramento –
When you get back, I hope you see my thank you for that link to The Origins of the Military Coup in 2012.
All I could think of was “something-something-2012″ and that Colin Powell had SOMETHING to do with it — did he discuss it if he didn’t write it?
No wonder I couldn’t find it.
2012 seems to be a magical year according to the Mayan calendar — the year of the end of life as we know it, or a singularity, whatever the hell that is, or maybe the flying saucers which are increasing in numbers will be landing.
I discovered all that when I tried googling with too little information. Thank you for rescuing me from that.
Although it’s kind of a drag to have to wait until 2012 for all the action. Mr. K8 and I have already determined that if any extra- or ultra-terrestrial vehicles arrive, we’d like to ask to board and GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE.
Sorry for shouting. The notion of attacking Iran (in keeping with the PNAC blueprint I’ve been warning everybody I meet about for several years now) kinda does that to me.
That, and banging my head against the wall.
Excuse me while I go get some ice for my forehead.
Mauimom @ 114
Yup.
People act exactly the same way here in Arizona in the rain.
Which really sucks, because all the oil that drips onto roadways when it’s sunny (97% of the time?) suddenly rises to the surface when the roads get wet, making everything slick as hell.
The best thing to do when surrounded by hundreds of stupid drivers is to stay home in the first place. Too bad that’s not always possible.
Generals….and CIA.
cbl @
113
Per Mr. McGovern, the US-Israel relationships is a bitch for both sides.
Forgive me for jumping in here quickly – I’m on tea interval from teaching.
But where does Putin’s stern warning figure into this? What will the Chinese do should we attack Iran?
Again, apologies if this has been covered. I’ll read the whole thread of comments after class is over.
Or Dick Cheney’s complicity in 9/11…
http://www.fromthewilderness.c…..case.shtml
Or CIA drug smuggling…
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1499
Or CIA involvement in political assassination…
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/t…..Agent.html
Mrs. K8 @ 117
If I can make it to the airport on Thursday [and if the airport is open & planes flying — they’re not tonight], I’ll be coming to AZ, so no rain please only warm sun!
Everythingseemssoneat @ 107
http://tinyurl.com is a great help whenever an overlong URL needs squooshing… HTH
NZ Expat @ 120
Chinese reaction — call in all our worthless paper and trigger economic Armageddon?
OK.. dumb question: What on earth does shrub think that regime change means in Iran? Unless my memory fails me, Ahmadinejad is a populist man-of-the-pepole meat-an’-potatos type of guy who put into office in an electoral upset against more establishment conservative candidates favored by the ruling elites. He wasn’t elected in the cleanest election, but I believe the cheating was most pronounced on the part of his OPPOSITION. OK.. he’s a racist mysogenistic thug.. but then again, so are Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter, and I can only wish that we can regime-change them to, say, Mexico. I’m confused.
Blub @ 122
I think installing the Shah’s son would make Bush and Cheney quite happy….
America is getting that end of empire stench…
-GSD
looseheadprop @
91
Who controls congress ? When AIPAC drafted its document for congress to enable the bombing of the civilian population in Lebanon, what did it pass by, something like 480 to 0.
Nice.
I’m okay with ethnic groups, minority groups, and foreign countries having a lobby in todays cosmopolitan technologically mobile world, but when war crimes of that proportion happen, and a democratic body (congress) is too browbeaten to oppose being forced to enable those war-crimes, something is seriously wrong.
I assume this is snark – but it is something I’ve been turning over and over since Hersh reported on it last year
how could a Military Commander in good conscience do anything so incredibly dangerous to the troops in Iraq ?!?!? my goodness, all but none of us are military scholars and we all know what will happen in Iraq the second they lay a finger on Iran – it just screams dishonor and dereliction of duty knowlingly doing something that will result in the slaughter of 140,000
Mrs. K8 @ 124
Loudly hem and haw and condemn, and otherwise do nothing. Paper tiger. China’s strategic interests are mostly pretend here… as much to antagonize and irritate us as much as anything else… apart from the fact that they’re investing everywhere on the planet where they can fit a drill bit in their quest for oil. They just gain yet another excuse to bash us in the press and at the UN. I’d be much more concerned about the response of the Russian security apparatus. Now that can be interesting.
Well, boys, I reckon this is it. New-q-lure combat, toe-to-toe with the Rooskies.
Blub, Ahmadinejad was considered more hardline than the leading opponant, Hashemi Rafsanjani, who had been a former president and who looks remarkably similar to Curly from the 3 Stooges.
Ahmadinejad was the firebrand, tough talker that the people went with to face down our weenie swinging cowboy Chimp.
-GSD
Mauimom –
We may have a teensy bit of drizzle tonight and very early a.m. tomorrow.
According to the Weather Channel website (which I just checked out for you) it should then be dry until at least Sunday, when there’s a 30% chance of some intermittent showers, then dry again ’til the following Tuesday, with another 30% chance of intermittent showers.
That’s if the weather reports are correct, of course. There are no predictions of big storms or anything in the Greater Phoenix area for the next 10 days.
Which airport is closed — where you are?
scory @
41
Some opinion:
Rafsanjani is one of the old ‘clerical hard-liner’ opportunists the U.S. enabled back in the 80’s.
Well, Russia just sold Iran 29 highly elaborate surface to air missile systems that the Iranians are going to use to protect their nation. They can reportedly target a few dozen planes and missiles at the same time.
The Iranian response to an attack will likely be a little more robust than the Iraqis.
-GSD
good luck with that. let’s see, almost 30 years in a country where anyone loyal to the Peacock Throne fled long ago. . .oh wait, don’t tell me, there’s an Iranian National Congress™, and . . . Congress is set to pass the Iranian Liberation Act 07® . . .
Seems it’s time to force Bush to have some skin in the game. Here’s two ideas:
1. How about legislation that takes away Secret Service protection for Bush and family — forever — if he attacks Iran without Congressional approval?
2. How about legislation that provides we will honor extradition requests to the Hague?
Any others?
NZ Expat @ 120
did you ever play the game of risk? what happens when there is one really strong player.
Blub @ 125
we talk about bringing democracy to iran. they already have democracy.
bakho @ 26
As a DC-area native, I have to agree — if you require quick action from Congress, learn to live with disappointment. It’s not the way the institution and its powers work. If you want to judge members intentions, keep an eye on the funding bills and other legislation that the administration wants to pass. It’s frustrating but unavoidable that a minority is able to frustrate most affirmative measures; they won’t be able to do that, or filibuster, with things they need to get passed.
(And maddeningly, it’s entirely possible that the criminals in the administration may be able to provoke a war with Iran before this can happen, but that still doesn’t give Congress power they don’t have.)
Blub @ 130
Do you mean in the sense of that ancient curse, “May you live in interesting times”?
I could really go for some boring times right about now.
Laura Rozen on the ISOG:
And this from the Globe:
It’s Iraq all over again.
GSD @
132
That sounds about right. So, again… we want to provoke a military confrontation and regime change to liberate the Iranian people from their POPULIST firebrand-of-a-leader, who has a job mainly because his own people felt they needed to elect him to prevent us from regime-changing-them against their will? What a terrific winning strategy, shrub. Shrub to the Iranians: democracy sucks.. you need to bring back the Shah and the SAVAK to torture you because clearly you’re too evil to govern yourselves. Wow.
cbl @ 129
They. Dont. Care.
Its just pieces on the board.
Digby, you made it so logical that Bush would attempt to go to war with Iran. Even though Congress and the People are against this war, Bush will not accede to their demands for restraint. It all started with him getting away with stealing the elections from Gore and Kerry. He learned there that laws do not apply to him and ever since has governed under that maxime.
I am sorry for the generals who really do care about the armed forces and about the morality of a war, but the Bush express will run over them.
We are so slow to learn. The only way that this administration will change its ways is if they are forced to yield power. The sooner they are getting impeached, the better.
I was thinking of the proliferation of military bases that the U.S. has been engaged in over the past couple of decades.
The recent noise over Putin’s ‘cold war talk’ criticizing the U.S., and the U.S. ongoing and un-interrupted cold war actions, got me thinking, that the international debt financing the military empire that is currently expanding under the Boosh administration, is a bit of devious cleverness, namely hooking those countries into holding, or possibly defaulting on massive debt, eliminating their chances of cashing in on all that loot, not only from the debt, but from the cash cow commercial culture of the west.
Debt is a two way bind, for the lender and the borrower after all.
Tactically it is an interesting scenario if it weren’t so horrifically immanent.
New thread upstairs.
Curly Howard.
Hashemi Rafsanjani.
You decide.
-GSD
Riesz Fischer @ 131
I must object in the strongest terms to anyone trying to re-ignite the Cold War. It is OVER. You people need a new enemy, go invent one somewhere else. Russia is trying to recover from the war, that is to say, World War Two. They made a big deal of celebrating the anniversary of the end of the German blockade, January 27, 1944. Talk about your people that are war weary. You think they want to go this route AGAIN? Think again.
There are people who want to create enemies for reasons which I can hardly fathom. I am rather naive here. To extend power. To sell weapons. To keep your people employed if you are a beltway bandit consulting corporation. To satisfy contributors. It’s kind of a perfect storm. Ref Eisenhower.
Sophist @ 128
Is the Israel Lobby Holding Peace Hostage?
AIPAC Diary:
http://www.boomantribune.com/s…..195331/954
Everythingseemssoneat @
85
Yes! It’s the hair. A single squiggle in the middle of his forehead.
Brilliant.
Blub @ 143
Of course, the big joke is that Ahmadinejad has no real power. His position is a figurehead position, kinda like the “President” in Germany (when it’s the Chancellor with all the executive power).
Not that anybody in the corrupt corporate media will bother telling the American public that, or anything.
Blub,
agree about Russia, but slight disagreement on China and I make no pretense of being fully informed
believe they signed long term contracts w/ Iran last year or late 05 and will “not be happy” should there be any delays in delivery of same – plus they have the human and financial resources to f with us all over the globe, which could eventually entail closing The Peoples ATM ;)
GSD @ 132
But he was also a populist. The reason he’s lost popularity is that he was elected primarily on as-yet-unfulfilled promises to make life better for the common people, not antagonizing the international community.
I find it particularly frightening that Bush’s view of Iran is so heavily influenced by Ahmadinejad’s supposed threat toward Israel, which was actually a mistranslation published in the NYT.
Mrs. K8 @
142
Yeah, as GSD just pointed out above, the Russian generals are pretty much openly arming the Iranians with state-of-the-art weapons-systems. The Russians are playing the great game all over again here, and shrub’s too stupid to realize he’s even in a game, much less in it with the weakest of possible hands. The Chinese and others, including probably some of our European “allies”, are happy to tag along for the ride. Interesting times, indeed.
egregious @ 149
I may be wrong, but I got the impression that RF’s post was extending the Dr. Strangelove movie dialogue clips here. In a kinda black humor way, not advocating for such a thing.
cbl @ 153
Oh, I think you’re right, btw. I just think one needs to recognize that China has an extremely week hand in the military-cum-diplomatic game being played in Central Asia right now.. with effectively zero continental force-projection capacity to back up their diplomatic hand. They can only play at all with their checkbook and with Russian muscle. To the extent this becomes a shooting war, it’s Russian hardware and advisors who will be in the trenches with our enemy.. not Chinese bankers. China’s hand is much stronger in Africa, including the Sudan, by the way, but not in Persia, IMO.
Mrs. K8 @ 123
In addition to China, any of America’s other big creditors could pull the plug. As soon as South Korea even discussed reducing dollar reserves, the US dollar fell 1.5%.
Hmm. Japan. China. Russian petro-dollars.
And on the other hand, Shrub -
who thinks the Suez Crisis is going hunting with the wrong pig call.
Sophist @ 128
New legislation to limit the influence of lobbying groups, so called good government, excludes A*PAC and the Aspen Instt. Why.
kirk murphy –
Yes! Thank you for that information.
I’ve been well aware of the fact for quite some time that the holders of dollar reserves are all trying to unobtrusively inch their way toward the exit door, without triggering a mass stampede.
I was only paying half attention, but Joke Line just seemed pretty pro-iraq-war on Scarborough. The “well it might be bad if we left, and we’re there already, and its not my kid’s ass” position that seems to be so popular with those who sit on the fence.
Hi Mrs K8 -
so glad for your good news!
(and – yep – even the blue bloodish old money folk around Pasadena are hauling out their Swiss franc accounts.
Asset protection, not wealth creation. When these folks forego interest, I’m worried.)
egregious @
140
I think the president is actually more than a figurehead relative to the Supreme Leader, who is himself elected and not precisely a dictator (albeit via an electoral college). It’s not just a symbolic position. The supreme leader controls the army, but the president controls the bureaucracy. The supreme leader is elected by an Assembly (electoral college, or something like that) of members who are, in turn, elected by direct popular vote for 8 year terms. The president is elected directly, instead of through the college.
One can debate the usual issues of corruption and undue religious influence.. this is not a perfect democracy by any stretch of the imagination, but I do understand that they basically have the government the plurality of their citizens want.
All of this just goes to show: not all big ideas are good ideas.
Vanity Fair:
“It was the beginning of
paranoid insanity on the part of Israel,thought” says Meyrav Wurmser, an Israeli-American policy expert, who co-signed the paper with her husband, David Wurmser, now a top Middle East adviser to Dick Cheney.The Guardian
Another neo-conservative, Meyrav Wurmser, director of the centre for Middle East policy at the Hudson Institute, also favours supporting Iranian opposition groups. She is disappointed with the response of the Bush administration so far to Iran and said that if the aim of US policy after 9/11 was to make the Middle East safer for
Israelthe US, it was not working because the administration had stopped at Iraq. “There is not enough political will for a strike. There seems to be various notions of what the policy should be.”First of all, WELCOME DIGBY!
Second, it’s important to remember that peaceful or even enraged protest will have no effect upon formed plans to attack Iran. It is Israel’s will to attack Iran, and thus we will attack Iran.
All of our energies should be focused laserlike on this single question: “Should the domestic and international interests of the Unitd States be sacrificed in order to protect the paranoia of the state of Israel?”
All questions, discouragement, bafflement about the insane behavior of this adminstration can be directly linked to its support of Israel. Crazed by the looney idea of “troop surge” in Iraq? That’s to fortify Iraq against Iranian strikes upon our attacking Iran. Mystified by the president’s referral to increasing our oil stockpile in the SOTU address? Likewise related to an attack on Iran, ergo, related to Israel’s paranoid need to bomb any of its neighbors it finds “threatening.”
The question now must not be “Who will stop Cheney?” but “Who will stop the unrelenting influence of the Israel lobby in the United States?”
We can begin by refusing to quote “dual citizens” such as Meyrav Wurmser, whose primary allegiance is to the state of Israel. They live, breathe, and work entirely for the state of Israel, in spite of openly betraying America’s best interests. They must be exposed for their false allegiance, ridiculed for the emptiness of their “thought,” and convincingly silenced so that they can no longer take the United States down the perilous road of endless war in the Middle East to protect Israel, which involves hurling the entire peaceful world into the nightmare nuclear conflict.
kirk murphy @ 161
Thank you, kirk — the support and good thoughts/prayers of you and many others like you is what kept me sane. I’m so glad to be here at the Lake with you and all the Pups!
From what I understand, there is an online bank with a good reputation (no, we don’t have any reason to promote them, we’ve heard about ‘em from others) called Everbank.
They permit “just folks” to open accounts (and I’m pretty sure, if I understood correctly, that the amounts can be small) in all manner of currencies. They’re insured, just like dollar accounts.
Just thought I’d mention it in case there are people who would like to carry a bit of foreign currency but think you have to be one of the “big investors” to do so.
New shiny thing, A Day with Patrick Fitzgerald.
It’s not what you think. It’s what you feel you think. Think about it.
Milt –
To my amazement a few years back a neighbor of mine (who suddenly revealed just how “Christian” fundamentalist she was) accused me of being anti-Semitic for criticizing the Likud Party and policy decisions of the Israeli government.
I figured out how to stump her — and it’s worked for me ever since when I run into these folks.
Intending to use her own religious language I said — you believe that you should always support the decisions of the Israeli gov’t? She said, “yes, of course.”
My reply — “What makes you believe that Israelis are incapable of sin? I thought that you believe that not even Christians [the “not even” was for HER benefit, so she would “get it”] are free from sin.”
She said, “uh…what?”
So I said — “As long as an Israeli is capable of selfishness, and narrow-mindedness, or hard-heartedness — you know, capable of sin, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING — then why can he or she not be criticized?”
She stuttered and stammered and walked away. (She also decided not to talk to me any more, but…oh well!)
This point has stumped every single fundy type who seems to insist on mindless support for the right-wing fanatics in the Israeli gov’t.
I pass this idea along for others who may find themselves in the same rhetorical situation someday.
If General Pace has broken clear of the Bushco message, it can mean one of two things:
-He’s heard recent information regarding Bushco plans which was sufficient to break the voodoo-paste hold on him, which means it’s so insane that he no longer considers PNAC, Bushco or the GOP to be a safe career investment in the cocktail military establishment, or…
-The neocons have decided to try something slightly more clever; assign Pace as the courageous military dissenter, the ‘face’ of doubt. Then have him come around by a carefully orchestrated release of information, whereby he ‘comes around’ and says “I’ve changed my mind about the intel on Iran, so you should too.”
Since I wouldn’t trust him to flush a toilet, my guess is the latter.
Crazy Horse @
65
And if his militias were going to “sit down” or “wait it out” then he wouldn’t leave at all. So I expect, despite the assertions by many that the militias are not going to fight back is very unlikely.
BTW The Iraqi Gov’t has announced a “lockdown” of the borders b/w Syria and Iran for the next 72 hours…
…so that means the “surge” into Sadr City will begin soon. Already I’ve noticed that US casualties are climbing again.
And Washington DC is going to be shut-down. A convenient winter storm that will prevent any action by Congress.
tejanarusa @
77
When I received the email I was deeply moved and immediately signed on. Then I became deeply saddened all over again that my Senator Barbara Boxer shamed her office, her staff and herself by embracing the phony Lieberman and, dare I say it, costing Ned Lamont too many votes.
newspaperbrat @
172
Oooh, Boxer: full-scale embarassment. I was spitting fire when she did that. What a twit.
Wouldn’t it be sweet if Lamont ran over here against her?
Mrs. K8 @ 167
Have I told you lately I love you, Mrs. K8?
I’ve been looking for somewhere to deposit in foreign currencies for a couple of months and never found it! (Well, except for places that were happy to let me as long as it was $250k at a time)
Mrs. K8 @
116
John in Sacramento may be familiar with an excellent Sacramentan/Ox-Cam songwriter named Anton Barbeau who wrote a song about the end of time “When I was 46 in the Year 13″.
http://www.antonbarbeau.com/entry.html
It’s off Anton’s new psychedelic-folk release called “In The Village of The Apple Sun” [recommended!]
Heya Digby-
Nice OP. But there’s a positive trend angle no one’s looking at- at the 24% of the electorate who continue to support the Iraq policy idiocy and are the White House’s and Senate Republicans’ last solid political support. We have these last True Believers feeling isolated, putting up the strongest defenses they can. But trend is against them, they’re exposed and their credibility and dignity is at stake in what they do now.
It’s a long story to justify these numbers, but at present, in all there about 25% or 26% True Believers left in the pollings. That’s what remains due to a fairly constant breakdown rate of 1% of last uncritical fealty to the hardline ideal per month throughout the Bush Presidency.
The next two or three months strike me as containing a final sea change in Republican support as their last solid bloc fights, resists, buckles, cracks, and begins its bleeding out. The breakdown trend breaks into that last bloc. This is an apocalyptic, paranoid, and vengeful bloc…it should be quite deliciously eerie and mindblowing to watch.
Overt conflict with Iran would be the last big gambit by the Bush folk to appease this bloc, given that is what they claim to want in polling…but the Bush record in appeasement of political blocs truly beginning to waver is invariably failure.
fdlurker @
138
Unfortunately he can veto such actions and the Tubthumplicans will prevent the 2/3rd’s override.
We need Congress to CLEARLY STATE that a) invading Iran would be an act of war in violation of their Constitutional Power to Declare War; and b) that the use of US Military forces to suppress a civil war in Iraq EXCEEDS the 1992 War Powers Resolution.
It should be made quite clear that both acts are UNCONSTITUTIONAL (hint, hint Dubya) without obtaining from Congress a NEW War Powers Resolution.
That “Intent of Congress” statement cannot be vetoed and provides LEGAL GROUNDING in any situation where an officer refuses to place his forces in harms way. It would move any such act into the courts as the issue of whether that officer was violating a legal order would be raised.
In addition, it can’t be vetoed.
And it can be used for a basis to IMPEACH if Bush does act to precipitate a War with Iran or ignores Congressional limits.
Here’s info on the 1992 Defense Planning Guidance that Cheney’s office produced while he was SOD,—-same cast of characters driving same policies.
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1571
Professor Foland –
Have I ever told you that I’ve always had a weak spot for professors?
A big smooch to you, sweetie! Happy Valentine’s Day.
And enjoy those kroner, yen, lire, pounds, shekels, dinare, rubles, rupees, etc!
The Prez of Iran may have challenged the validity of the holocaust claim but he never said that Israel should be wiped out per se, he said those words quoting from a speech a Shiite Cleric had made…now that the claims of Iran gov supplying arms to kill US troops has been debuncted now they are saying Sadr has run off to Iran ahead of the planned crack down in Bagdad…another US prop story, we have to wait and see.
Has anyone noticed that Bush thinks exactly like Tim McVeigh?
Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton told AIPAC just after the 2006 elections that Israel’s ’security’ is as important to them as America’s – this is treason, this is why the toothless resolution against the surge cannot be passed.
if the generals start making arrests, they are going to have to arrest these traitors in Congress including AIPAC pelosi and clinton.
cinnamonape @
175
Oh, dear me! I got back here very very late — and see that I somehow missed this post when I was scanning quickly earlier.
Sorry about that, cinnamonape!
In the spirit of “better late than never, I hope” — just want to say thanks for responding to my comment, and giving us all a link to a taste of some off-the-beaten-path music.
It’s always fun to listen something new and different!
If the generals are indeed resisting the drumbeat to war, here’s the link where you can let ‘em know that you’re glad they’re doing their patriotic duty (comment form for the Joint Chiefs of Staff).
http://www.jcs.mil/jcs_comment.html
share @
182
When the Democrats quit kissing Aipac’s and come out solid for a two state solution and then act upon that solution fairly then they will get the rest of our votes. They are dealing with this conflict out of the purse of Aipac.
Today Tony Snow stated that “General Pace is welcome to speak for himself”. The Bush administration is clearly insane.
Last week we had the Pentagons Inspector General tell the world that creating and disseminating false intelligence was “inappropriate”.
I have some news for the Inspector General and the former Republican controlled congress..Lying about a blow job under oath is “inappropriate”. Lying about pre-war intelligence that was used to illegally invade Iraq which has resulted in hundreds of thousands of dead is CRIMINAL. THESE PEOPLE ARE INSANE AND IMMORAL!
why have you shut down the comments on this section. I am sure people have a great deal to say about this important issue. You should open the comments up!
Let’s hope that Senator Rockefeller gets to the bottom of the Office of Special Plans, the Office of Net Assessments and the White House Iraq group. The Pentagons I/G was the VPs and Senator Pat Roberts man. PHASE II OF THE SSCI had better hold those responsible for the false pre-war intelligence accountable or we will know once and for all…THERE IS NO INTEGRITY OR HONESTY TO BE ACCESSED IN OUR CONGRESS!