
[Please keep the comments section on topic with discussion of today's featured book. Any off-topic discussions should be taken to the prior thread. Please be polite to our guest -- and please join me in welcoming Elizabeth de la Vega. -- CHS]
For our readers who have been following the Traitorgate investigation, a discussion of the machinations of the Bush Administration and all of its neocon allies often comes with few surprises. But even for me, having followed the day to day details of this investigation for so long a time, the sheer scope of the long term, well-planned, malicious mendacity detailed by Elizabeth de la Vega in U.S. v. Bush is shocking.
Betsy begins her book with three goals in mind: (1) To ask whether the President and his team defrauded the country; (2) To examine the facts in a courtroom context, based on facts to be considered outside the usual political spin; and (3) To show just exactly how well-considered and far-reaching in scope and personnel this was within the Bush Administration, to ask the questions that need asking with regard to achieving some measure of accountability. To do this, she uses the vehicle of a presentation of evidence to a grand jury through witness testimony and citations to evidentiary materials -- government documents, public statements, and other publicly available materials.
And the information provided, when it is compiled all in one place and detailed in page after page after page, by a prosecutor with twenty years of experience in laying out a case in a detailed and logical fashion for a jury? Well, it's very effective. And chilling.
As Betsy explains in her introduction, the cost of such fraud is substantial -- in lives, in national reputation, in loss of trust and integrity -- and that there ought to be a steep price paid by persons who would attempt to perpetrate such a fraud on the American public.
Thus far, however, in the case of the vastly broader and more devastating Iraq war fraud orchestrated by the CEO of the United States and his management team, the system has failed. And we are all victims of this fraud. George W. Bush exploited the vulnerability of an entire populace reeling from the September 11, 2001, attacks to manipulate them into supporting a war based on false pretenses. If the cost of the President's fraud is astronomical -- $340 billion in direct war costs alone as of August 2006 -- the human cost is incalculable, and far more profound......I'm calling on Democrats and Republicans to do the right thing. And I'm calling on everyone else to do whatever you can to convince Congress to do the right thing. I am not talking about bringing people to justice in the vengeful sense that President Bush employs. I am talking about effecting justice. I am talking, finally, about holding our highest government officials accountable for a complex and calculated program of false pretense, misleading statements and material omissions -- a criminal betrayal of trust that is strikingly similar to, yet far worse than, the fraud committed by Enron's top officials.
On of the most compelling segments of U.S. v. Bush is the compilation of research that Betsy has done on the membership of the White House Iraq Group (more commonly known as the WHIG), and its integral role in "selling" the Iraq invasion to the American public like a new and improved jar of peanut butter for the supermarket shelves. Except, in this particular case, what was sold was a war based on lies and hollow promises, and without any real plan beyond invasion, and the cost of such a sales job in lives and limbs and minds and hearts has been devastating.
For those who are not familiar with the WHIG, it's members included: Karen Hughes and Karl Rove, who were it's co-chairs; Andrew Card, Mary Matalin, James R. Wilkinson (a GOP political operative and Bush election advisor), Nicholas Calio (the Bush Congressional liaison), Condoleeze Rice, Stephen Hadley, and Scooter Libby. It was formed in July of 2002, and met weekly in the White House Situation Room, convening to plan a strategy for he sale of the Administration's Iraq war plans to the American public.
On pages 184-186 of U.S. v. Bush, there is a discussion of an Elizabeth Bumiller article that sticks in my mind still today from that summer of 2002:
A. Yes. The article also says that the President, Hughes, Card and Rove had begun planning the strategy in July, and "a centerpiece" of it was to use Bush's upcoming speech commemorating the 9/11 attacks to "help Americans toward support of action against Iraq, which could come early next year."Q. In other words, they intended to tie the marketing of the war against Iraq to 9/11, even though they knew the two were unconnected?
A. Yes.
Q. What else does the article reveal about the defendants' intent?
A. It says, "the White House wants a resolution approving the use of force in Iraq to be approved in the next four to five weeks." So despite Bush's earlier promise of "open dialogue," his aides were admitting that they had already decided what they wanted to do about Iraq -- and when they wanted to do it.
It was also clear that Bush and his advisors intended to do whatever they had to do to ram their plan through. The article notes that congressional leaders were skeptical about whether Iraq posed an "imminent threat," but White House officials told the Times they would reveal "higher levels of intelligence" to make their case and, according to an unnamed official, "In the end it will be difficult for someone to vote against it." In other words, the Bush-Cheney administration's deliberate strategy was not just to persuade Congress directly, but to pressure Congress by manipulating the opinions of their constituents.
In U.S. v, Bush, Betsy lays out the entire malignant production, bit by bit, including such interesting pieces of information as the usefulness of knowing the White House website calendar's euphimisms (Did you know that "Welcome" was a stand-in for publicly funded campaign stop that we can fob off as a public appearance?), along with the false premises that members of the WHIG and their principles were vouching on the airwaves and in print, despite knowing that the factual basis for such claims was far from solid and, in some cases, altogether false and misleading to the public:
-- The alleged connection between Saddam Hussein and the attacks of September 11, 2001;
-- The alleged connection between Iraq and al Qaeda;
-- The alleged connection between Saddam Hussein and any terrorists whose primary animus was directed toward the United States;
-- Saddam Hussein's alleged intent to attack the United States in any way;
-- Saddam Hussein's possessionof nuclear weapons and the status of any alleged ongoing nuclear weapons programs;
-- The lack of any reasonable basis for asserting with any certainty that Saddam Hussein was actively manufacturing chemical and biological weapons; and
-- The alleged urgency of any threat posed to the United States by Sadam Hussein.
All of which, as detailed in U.S. v. Bush, was false and was known to be false, and yet was used for a con job on the American public nonetheless.
This entire sorry spectacle, from the ramping up to the mess in Iraq by the WHIG public relations machinations, through to the failure to plan for the occupation of Iraq -- the looting of public buildings on forward to the still-as-yet-barely-functioning power grid in Baghdad, from the Traitorgate investigation borne out of payback for criticizing the lack of integrity of the Vice President through to the more recent revelations of even more information on the Doug Feith-led Intel Chop Shop at the Pentagon. It is all in U.S. v. Bush, in a very readable -- very infuriatingly readable -- format.
The question is, once one has all of this information at hand -- the PNAC involvement, the WHIG con job, the hands on participation of the President and Vice President, the use of war for political purposes -- what exactly does one do with this? Perhaps we should all start by reading the draft indictment that is so conveniently provided in U.S. v. Bush. And then take a moment to contemplate the true meaning of the words in the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
We hold these truths to be self-evident: a President who does not uphold his oath of office, and who fails to respect and follow the rule of law, is no President -- he is a tyrant and an attempted King. And it is well past time for accountability to be demanded for these wrongs to the Constitution and to the laws of this great land.
And with that, I open the discussion, and welcome Elizabeth de la Vega to Firedoglake. Welcome, Betsy!
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Welcome to FDL! I saw you on CSpan last night, Elizabeth, you were great.
Hello Christy and Firedoglakers,
Thanks so much for this opportunity to talk about U.S. v Bush with all of you. Christy has done a fantastic job of introducing the book, so let’s go!
Elizabeth,
Welcome and thanks for stopping by. I thoroughly enjoyed your book and got one for my brother for Christmas too.
My question is this: Why do you think Pelosi said that impeachment is off the table?
Fitz, FDL, Marcy, Elizabeth de la Vega, my heros
Ms. de la Vega, an honor to have you here at FDL. If you find it of interest, I am very interested in any reflections you have about the Bush Administration’s slashing of resources that US Attorneys need to function.
Elizabeth
On Book TV yesterday, you said that you were glad that you hadn’t been arrested. Have you been threatened or intimidated in any way?
Terry Olson @ 2
That is an outstanding question. I have a lot of respect for Nancy Pelosi. She was certainly not in a position –especially given that if Bush and Cheney were ever actually removed from office she would be the President– to spearhead the effort, but I think her word choice was unfortunate. More important, as Molly Ivins says “we are the deciders” and people should continue to speak out for what they believe is right. It appears that we have to lead Congress these days.
Gordon @ 5
Oh, I was only kidding, but thanks for asking.
Saw you on Cspan, watching you now, again on Cspan thank you for all your hard work.
Thanks for appearing and for your book. I’ve written to my two California senators urging impeachment of Bush, Cheney, and the rest of their criminal gang. I was disappointed with Feinstein’s lame reply. Any suggestions on how we might get Congress’ attention sufficient for them to take seriously the growing sentiment in the U.S. for impeachment? It may be our last chance to save our republic, as well as begin to restore our international credibility.
John Casper @ 4
If Waxman does the job I think he will, can impeachment not be the only logical result of his investigations? Will the investigations take too long?
Betsy — It’s so great to have you here to discuss the book. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Elizabeth de la Vega @ 10
What’s of most concern to me about the US Attorneys’ offices is that since the beginning of the Bush administration, the control of the offices has become increasingly centralized in Washington. It appears that budgets for all of the government offices except those relating to the military have been cut drastically. It’s part of the Grover Norquist plan to shrink the federal government.
Just wanted to say Hi, Elizabeth, will rejoin you all here later, but I’m watching a replay of you on Book TV on C-Span 2 right now. Hmmm…watch you on TV or interact on the internet, but without video. It’s a hard decision. But you’re speaking so well and I’m learning so much. On the other hand, I do want you to know what a fan I am of yours. As you told Helen Thomas, I’d like to give you a hug.
What’s your reaction to the dismissal of 7 US Attorneys recently, and the change slipped into the Patriot Act that allows the adminstration to fill those positions with anyone they choose, indefinately? No senate approval necessary.
Ann in AZ @ 14
John at 5 — Funny how so many of those resources have been slashed in areas where a Republican member of Congress or substantial fundraiser happened to be under investigation, isn’t it? (And I specifically refer folks to Jerry Lewis’ district in CA as one very good example of that.)
The late Molly Ivins, probably throwing thunderbolts at the politicians in the afterlife, and having fun doing it.
I have not had the chance to read your book, but have read “The People’s History of the United States” by Howard Zinn, which at least implies that the government has never acted in the interests of the people, but secretly acted on their own interests, while the media mostly watched. What differences, if any, do you see between how the current Bush government has acted and how other U.S. administrations have acted in the past?
You’ve got Mary Matalin mentioned twice, and have left out Michael Gerson as members of WHIG.
You make a compelling argument in the case of fraud. It would have been helpful to show the money trail which seems to be enormous and complicated but perhaps it would strengthen the argument.
But now I need to ask why not expand this to a case of crimes against humanity and war crimes?
Christy at 17,
Lam in San Diego, too-of Cunningham distinction. What’s this I hear about Darrell Issa liking this canning?
Elizabeth de la Vega @ 16
Thanks Ann and to all of you who are so welcoming to me. In answer to the questions about what we can do, I don’t have a magic answer, but I think it is important to keep up the pressure on Congress in every way possible. I also believe that the evidence of the Bush administration’s actions does lead inevitably to the conclusion that impeachment is warranted, but the most important consideration to me is that we get the truth out and not preordain the outcome of any hearings.
Fools on the HIll @ 20
One of the biggest problems I had in writing this book was how to limit it to a manageable size and scope. Just as I would have in any criminal case, I wanted to show the criminal intent as powerfully as possible for this one crime and it makes the cases for the others easier to prove. The Bush Administration has committed many crimes, including those you’ve mentioned.
Somethings at 20 — Ooops — clearly I have Mary Matalin on the brain today. (And how unpleasant is that?!?) Appreciate the heads up that I had her in there twice.
podcat @ 18
Elizabeth de la Vega @ 25
First, I apologize for hitting the submit button prematurely a second ago.
But, the biggest difference I see is that previous administrations at least appeared to accept the rule of law and had the “grace” to violate the law secretly. This admin. is simply blatantly in violation of the law and seems to be saying “so what”?
I hope everyone here is aware that
Artillery launched into Pakistan at the Taliban
[Mod Note; this is a timely and important link, but please remember to keep comments in the Book Salon thread to the subject of the book. Thanks.]
Welcome Elizabeth, thanks for your work.
Do you have any sense that the drive for impeachment is growing across the country? There is a lot going on in that arena, at least on the net and in political organizations, but the politicians–whether local or national–seem to lack the will/courage.
Ms de la Vega,
I’m going to try to be efficient by asking two questions here:
1.) Given the, um, tepid response from federal congresscritters of every stripe, do you think that we should be focusing on getting up state and local initiatives/resolutions for impeachment?
2.) Any idea why Rep Conyers has backed off? There was supposed to be a book, some people paid $ for it and I think that has been quietly shelved (if anyone has knowledge of that pls advise, I googled but came up dry). I hope the Dems are just keeping their powder dry or some such metaphor, but … I worry that we got a bait-and-switch in Nov.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 24
Christy, thanks for the welcome– and Mary Matalin is such a big force in this group, she probably deserves to be in there twice!
I should clarify my remark to say that the media is shown to be actively supporting government, as in the case for the Iraq war, as well as ignoring what would go against government interest.
Mary Matalin is a snake.
Elizabeth? Do you predict more indictments related to the Plame case after the conclusion of the Libby trial?
Betsy at 27 — I think that is one of the things that most appalls me about this entire mess: the brazen in-your-face conduct and the fact that the members of Congress have failed to stand up and act in the way the Constitution mandates that they ought to act. The fact that Bruce Fein gets this, that Bob Barr gets this — and perhaps it is their past work for the DoJ that colors their vision on this — but truly, this has been such a monumental shift in perspective from protecting the long-term rule of law and the solidity of the American foundations of government to the short-term grab at power and to hell with any consequences.
That it is not recognized for the brazen selfish behavior that it is…well, it’s just beyond me. Bt if it is recognized as such, and memebrs of Congress fail to act on that repeatedly, then shame on them. And shame on any of us who tolerate it.
Elizabeth -
I would appreciate your thoughts about this excerpt from something David Kurtz wrote on Josh Marshall’s Talking Points Memo about a week ago:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....012263.php
HotFlash @ 29
This is an answer to BG and Hotflash. If you want to get involved inb impeachment work, go to www.afterdowningst.org and you can find out everything you need to know. My thinking on impeachment has evolved substantially over the past six months and particularly over the past month. Just as a good attorney doesn’t let the opposition define the case, I don’t think the public should let any political party define the agenda. The state and local impeachment resolutions are beginning to get attention and can provide Congress with both the momentum and cover it needs to be agressive.
what are the chances that the House will take up the evidence we are hearing in the Libby trial?
We also saw your BookTV talk yesterday and thought it was very effective, with great detail such as your dog’s interest in those White House press releases. You were very convincing and I wonder is there a way to get copies of that presentation for wider distribution? Particularly your example of the aluminum tubes issue as a proof of fraud.
Great work, Elizabeth! Thank you.
Q: Do you think Libby’s being convicted will make it easier to get impeachment investigations underway?
Any comments, Betsy, on Gerald Ortiz y Pino’s impeachment resolution now in the New Mexico legislature?
Welcome Elizabeth, Your book just got put on my wishlist (b-day next week).
I always keep on wondering … what if…
Like what if the next President and Congress recognises the Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ) in den Hague? Could Bush and his cronies be subject to future prosecution for crimes against humanity?
montag @ 41
Montag, the latest is that the Republicans are vowing to boycott the hearings, which means the committee will have no quorum. We are trying to keep the heat on.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 35
This is wild. It would actually be quite funny that it’s impossible to find out who works in the VP’s office if it weren’t so nightmarish. I can’t even respond to this theory because it is alien to anything I’ve ever heard, but one thing we have all learned by now is that no idea of centralized all-powerful government is too radical for Dick Cheney.
Ms de la Vega:
Thank you so much for your book (and the work that went into it–nice digging).
On a bit of a side issue: How do you think the Libby capper will play out?
bg @ 43
Well, I was asking for opinions of the resolution itself, rather than the progress of it. But, on what you mention, that has the distinct odor of Rod Adair to it, no question.
Yes, Repugs are organized to boycott. I’m sure they will continue in lockstep. The impeachment hearing scheduled for Friday was postponed to next Friday. There are vigils scheduled all week in Santa Fe.
Elizabeth, why do you think our Democratic Senators seem so reluctant to follow the lead of Feingold, both when he suggested censure (which it seemed to me to be the least they could do)and now when he’s advocating using the power of the purse (as opposed to meaningless and teethless gestures)?
It’s more than a little ditressing that we have violated yet another nation’s sovereignty today, by attacking the Taliban in the Waziristan area of Pakistan.
And we have the Mega-Unitary status of the VP now to contend with.
What’s happening in Vt? and how does a resolution from a state trigger a response in the House ?
Christine Harrington @ 37
I think that the evidence that has come out about the Office of the VP and the tidbits that show the President’s knowledge of the overall effort to discredit Wilson by, among other things, selectively leaking misleading information from the NIE should reinforce Levin’s and Conyers’ and others desire to investigate the Iraq invasion fraud.
One of the most frustrating things about this whole situation, and the reason I wrote the book, is that we already know, as Christy suggested as well, far more than we need to know to take action against this administration.
Christine at 38 — I hope neither side of Congress touches anything with the Libby trial until we hear from Fitzgerald himself that the investigation has concoluded. It was Congressional meddling and immunity deals in exchange for public show hearings that sunk the prosecutions for Iran Contra. Whatever may or may not follow from the Libby prosecution, I’d like it to first come out of the courts in order for justice to be served.
Elizabeth de la Vega @ 23
do you think a “truth and reconciliation” process would be helpful here in the usa, as it has been elsewhere?
SteveW @ 33
That is a stumper. I think the undisputed evidence that is already out there makes a darned good case for a conspiracy to cover-up the leak involving at least Cheney and Armitage, as well as Libby, of course, but I can’t predict what will happen on this one.
Ms. de la Vega,
it’s not hard to see that the Administration came up with a composite, scattershot and poorly coherent, set of motives to wage the war. I’m curious, not having seen your book, whether you think there was ever a true bottom line rationale.
At present I’m inclined to think that the driving force was not objective at all, whatever the marketing. It seems almost too easy to encapsulate all of the psychological forces in the one word ‘vanity’, but I’m not coming up with much else.
Answer to Selise #51- I think a truth and reconciliation process would be great, The concern would be finding people who could conduct it a non-partisan way.
Elizabeth, I loved your comment on timelines (from the cspan appearance) and how important it is to lay out what was happening publicly with what was happening behind the scenes at the same time.
We’re seeing that play out now in the Libby trial, and it was used brilliantly in the documentary “The Smartest Guys in the Room” about the Enron debacle.
Your book is next on my reading list!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 51
It would be the end of ironic if Congress, which has done nothing useful so far, managed to screw up the only effective action we’ve seen since the Supreme Court made this whole mess possible.
I cannot wait to buy your book. I think the issues raised here are at the crux of a lot of problems faced by temporary American culture:– the process of selling has become more important than the substance of what is being sold, whether that is a war, a new car or a new brand of perfume. And, in the Bush administration, you have a gang of spindoctors who respect ONLY that process, or rather the tired bread and circus routine that passes for “selling”, laws, morality, truth and substance be darned. It’s kind of like the opposite of McLuhan’s “the medium is the message.” In this case, the message is everything. Everything else is disloyalty.
In their headlines for February 2, 2007, Democracy Now! reported that:
“…Democratic House Judiciary Committee chair John Conyers has announced plans to investigate President Bush’s use of signing statements — through which he claims a right to ignore or not enforce sections of bills that he signs into law. Conyers says the investigation will focus on around 150 of the signing statements Bush has signed into law. Since taking office the president has issued over 800 signing statements – more than all other presidents combined.”
Obviously this is one of the unusual aspects of the current Bush presidency. What is your interpretation of the claim that the president has the power to sign certain laws, but can also ignore or not enforce them?
TheOtherWA at 56 — That’s a great prosecutorial technique that she uses to great advantage in US v. Bush. You will definitely enjoy the read.
jillian @ 53
Jillian, I think that it’s impossible to ascribe one overall motive to each of the players, but what I lay out in the book is kind of a perfect storm of motives that include, on the part of many in the administration, the Project for New American Century principles of global dominance and entitlement to oil in the middle east –things they never really admit, of course– as well as a desire on the part of Bush to be commander-in-chief, a desire to beef up Republicans’ chances in the election, a desire to show people in the Middle East that “we” are tough guys and possibly, Bush’s desire to get revenge for Saddam Hussein’s alleged attack on his father.
Question for Anyone: Why did Libby lie?
TheOtherWA @ 56
Do you have a timeline can share?
Elizabeth de la Vega @ 53
RawStory is saying that the NYT is saying that Cheney will make an appearance, possibly Monday. I don’t know what to make of this.
Blub @ 57
You’re right- and the problem is, as Christy mentioned, we seem to have come to accept it. People find it hard to believe that it is actually illegal for executive branch officials to lie to the public and Congress to get congress to take action. In fact, we have higher standards and expectations for weight loss product advertising!
Part of the perfect storm for Bushco vis a vis Iraq was the side benefit of the outsourcing of the army to contractors and the money dumping into private coffers that went with it.
I really have no doubt that the money used to buy missiles (whatever) to attack the US forces has come from our pockets. That would be a great investigation.
podcat @ 58
I’d love to hear what Christy says on this, but I believe that the signing statements have little, if any, legal effect. What’s most important about them is what they show about Bush’s mindset– he actually wants people to know that he has no regard whatsoever for the law.
SteveW @ 34
My question is similar. It would seem to me that in his investigation, Fitz must have seen a lot of the same stuff you talk about. I’ve read or heard somewhere that several former US Attorneys said that if it were they, based on the evidence we already know about, they would have charged conspiracy, and named Cheney at least an unindicted co-conspirator. What are your thoughts on this?
Terry @62, no I don’t. I’ve just been following the witnesses testimony and then compared it to Libby’s GJ testimony. IMO, Libby’s so busted it’s not even funny. (Yes, we still have to hear the defense side, he’s innocent until proven guilty.) It just looks bad for Libby at this point.
Elizabeth, I’m looking forward to your book. Do you discuss the current US doctrine of unilateral preemptive war and what we can do about it?
I insist on challenging politicians who say “all options are on the table,” but we need to do more than that. Thanks very much.
I agree with your pt of view on the signing statements– this would be a distraction at this time from the BIG show— impeachable offenses.
Elizabeth de la Vega @ 68
Terry Olson @ 62
Oh my goodness-The timelines are really, really long. As I’ve been explaining to people at various book talks, they basically took over my house and there were a few parts that the dog ate! I hope you like the book…
Betsy at 67 — I agree. I think they have no lega effect, but they do say an awful lot about what Bush and Cheney are thinking in terms of their own “unilateral executive” mindset. And about the disrespct that they have for the Legislative and Judiciary branches of government. I keep waiting for someone with standing to challenge one of these multiple signing statements, but thus far have not heard of any solid case being brought. Has anyone else?
Christy, what is your sense of where Fitzgerald is going with the conspirary charge (against Buck et al)?
HotFlash @ 58
As has been noted above, the NY Times will have a story that Cheney will tesitfy at the Libbey trial. What are the questions you would ask him?
Elizabeth, thanks for writing a great book
Have you talked to John Dean about impeachment
efforts… It seems to me that we need to move fast because Iran is just around the corner…
The dots HAVE been connected of fraud,
lying, and inteliigence gerrymandering… (all
high crimes! How high?)
My line of questioning would stay away from his theory of presidental powers and focus on info concerning what happened, when and where.
jeffreyw @ 76
Christine at 74 — I agree with Betsy that there certainly could be a strong circumstantial case made for a conspiracy between a number of the players in this trial, just based solely on testimony and notes and other evidence we’ve heard in the Libby trial alone. And that is only a small fraction of the information that Fitzgerald and his investigative FBI team and lawyers have gone over with the grand jury. I cannot get out of my mind the fact that they were seen going back to the grand jury early in the term with briefcases of information — and I would LOVE to know what was involved in that and why. But there is a reason tha such proceedings are secret, and thus I’m just waiting to see if and when there is any public statement from Fitzgerald or any member of his team on where things go — or do not go — from here.
Dean at #69–There is mention of it in the book. As you obviously agree, I think the doctrine of preemptive war is a clear violation of international law, not to mention that it has never been the policy of this country.
Elizabeth
I just wanted to say it was incredible to hear you in person at the Impeachment Forum at the California State Democratic Convention last year; it was a very valuable resource for those of us sitting in the audience.
My first question that I have I guess is that in reference to Nancy Pelosi “taking impeachment off the table” is how can she be so presumptuous to say this?
OK, probably a loaded question but …. really as Speaker of the House - a constitutional officer (the facilitator of the membership) I don’t think it’s up to her to be the Decider (TM) - it’s for the members themselves as representatives of The People (the Deciders (TM)) in their district to Decide whether or not to impeach.
When they were debating what shape the government would take, they didn’t want an all powerful executive nor an all powerful legislative branch but a tripartite government with the legislative as first among equals answerable to the people (the real Deciders (TM)) as John Locke proposed in his second treatise of government.
Sorry, I’m a constitution geek, but this really turns me off to the Speaker because her role is the same as John Roberts said in his confirmation - just calling balls and strikes.
p.s. there’s audio of the Impeachment Forum here
It doesn’t really get down to business until part 4 and 5, then it gets really good.
Nice to know that the signing statements have no effect.
Does Speedy Gonzales know that?
David at 81 — If he does, I wouldn’t bet on him saying so publicly any time soon.
Oh, I see,the timeline you used for the book. My puppy would never do a thing like that. She’d pee on it!
Hello all,
I loved the US vs. Bush. It really made the case against the administration. It is hard not to support the impeachment of both the pres. and vp after reading. congratulations. Joe
Elizabeth - Have you had any opportunity to discuss your book with any of your former AUSA colleagues or FBI types or the like? I know any current folks wouldn’t really be able to comment in any substantive way, but I’d be interested to know if any retired folks have talked to you about it? Law enforcement types of al stripes tend to take a dim view of fraud on any scale, at least around here, and I’m wondering if it is the same where you are.
Unfortunately Republicans find it easy, Mr. Wilson.
Christine Harrington @ 76
I have to say that I will be absolutely AMAZED if the defense calls Cheney. Even his direct testimony would have the effect of emphasizing the definitely sneaky, if not criminal,actions of the OVP in going after Wilson and in dealing with prewar intelligence in general, which does not help the defense at all. On cross, Fitzgerald can go over all of these points again and make it crystal clear– as if it’s not already– that Cheney and Libby were obsessed with going after Wilson. Not to mention that Cheney would be in the position of committing perjury or taking the fifth and he is one of the most disliked persons in the country. It would certainly be interesting to have him up there, tho.
Amb. Wilson at 84 — Good to see you. Please give my best wishes to your lovely spouse. :)
Welcome Ambassador. You are living in interesting times.
Thanks Betsy, this is a point that is made too little. By blithely talking about “regime change” and “preemptive war,” the Bush Administration drives regimes around the world, especially Iran, to invest heavily in WMD, as a poison pill to a possible invasion and regime change.
Recently NPR reported that unnamed government officials claimed they had evidence Iran was helping Iraq. Do you believe that, given the situation in Iraq, and the resistance to the US forces there, it will be more difficult for the government to make a case for military action against Iran?
Oh how I would love to see Fitz question Cheney!
Elizabeth thanks for the book. Who would you go for first, Bush or Cheney?