Surprise! Welcome to tape-delayed live-blogging. No sooner did Christy's post go up than it turned out we weren't really free for lunch after all — Judge Walton decided to finish off the Libby grand jury testimony, followed by lunch, various minor matters, and then (drumroll) Tim Russert.
By the time you read this, I'll already be at lunch. Enjoy…
NOTES: (1) This is not an official transcript — just a very loose paraphrase, at best — so don't treat it as one. Even exchanges that look like verbatim dialogue are just the gist of each question and each answer, with any key phrases or pauses included as best I can. (2) My own notes will be in parentheses and/or italics. (3) I'll tell you the time at the end of each update; expect about 15-20 minutes before the next one. The hamsters that run the servers will appreciate it if you don't refresh excessively in the meantime. (4) I didn't write the book on the Valerie Plame outing — but you should buy it, if you haven't already. If you're wondering who this "Swopa" character is, my previous writings on Plamemania can be found here.
Following a defense request at the last break, Walton emphasizes to jury that Fitz's GJ questions are NOT evidence any more than the questions in court are, so don't try to read into them.
We're back on the tapes now, still with McClellan and the meat grinder.
F: What do you understand "asked to stick his neck in the meat grinder" to mean?
L: (long pause) don't know specifically, I suppose that I was asked to talk to deal with press on this issue, should have either kept uranium out of SOTU or had it better documented.
F: So your interpretation — knowing that you didn't write this — is that incompetence on SOTU forced you to deal with press, and now you were having to be cleared [of suspicion of leaking]?
L: (agrees, more or less)
F: Does dealing with the press mean you being the spokesperson on July 12, by Cheney's request?
L: Don't know if I'd say that.
F; And perhaps speculation because you had talked to Time on the record on July 12?
L: (concedes, maybe so)
F: Is it still possible that Cheney told you to talk about the wife on July 12?
L: It's not on my cards for what he told me.
F: But Cheney did think trip was curious in June
L: Yes
F: And Cheney was frustrated over Wilson after July 6th
L: Yes
F: And Carney of Time has sent email saying people are pointing fingers at the OVP over uranium mess
L: Yes
F: And Cheney on July 12 wanted to get whole truth out
L: Yes
F: And Cheney told you about CPD in June
L: Yes
F: And Cheney wrote "junket' on Wilson op-ed sometime after July 6th
F: So it's possible, though you don't remember, that he told you to tell reporters about Wilson's wife
L: It's possible, but I don't remember
F: When you spoke to Kessler, and you thought maybe boondoggle but not negative, do you think reporter might have gotten impression you thought it was boondoggle?
L: Perhaps, but maybe he got impression on his own from Wilson op-ed or Novak article
F: Pincus before June 12th, did you tell him about Wilson's wife
L: No
F: Pincus said on WaPo website that he was told. You don't think you told Pincus?
W: No.
(Now there's a very long, painstaking discussion about what Libby understands to be classified, including insta-declassification, whether a leak to the press makes something non-classified — Libby says no, it's still not to be talked about — and whether CIA employees are assumed to be classified. Libby says he knows CIA people socially, he plays softball & football with them, they tell everyone at the game they work for CIA.)
F: But you were told this by the VP of the US, not at a football game.
L: Didn't have a sense that it was classified.
F: So you forgot that you learned this, thought it was new information when Russert told you, didn't remember until you saw note about VP and wife in CPD, but you have a recollection of sensing that it wasn't classified? (someone laughs in press room — um, me actually. Sorry, everybody…)
(Libby excuses himself lamely, and then Fitz rubs his nose in asks him again about conversations with Grossman, Cathie Martin, Fleischer, etc. Libby still doesn't remember them. Walks through the Russert conversation, and the info about Wilson's wife striking him as a newly learned fact.)
F: Did you feel uncomfortable that you had misled Mr. McClellan about talking to reporters?
L: Not at all uncomfortable, I said I wasn't source for Novak, offered to tell VP everything I knew, think I did what I was supposed to. Once investigation started, didn't want to have conversations with other officials about this.
F: Given you didn't want to have conversations, why did you call Russert instead of having lawyer call?
L: Russ doesn't know my lawyer, I didn't go into details.
F: Reached out to any other reporters?
L: I haven't but had conversation with Evan Thomas on other subject and he asked about Wilson stuff, I said not allowed to talk
(The following are questions from grand jurors)
F: How often lunch with Ari?
L: Seldom, was first or second time, he's busy 'cause of gaggle at 1PM
F: Have you seen Ari since he left WH?
L: No — yes. Saw him at a basketball game, some other functions.
F: Have you talked about this investigation?
L: Not that I know of. (awkward pause) Was that a strange answer?
F: Yes.
L: Don't think I talked to him in any detail (oh, that was a lot better, thanks)
F: When did you reach out to russert
L: Think before 1st GJ appearance but not sure
F: Anything that triggered it aside from advice of counsel?
L: no
F: Can you explain the protocol for discussing classified information?
L: Stuff in briefings is clearly classified, stuff on TV/newspaper clearly not, other times person will say "this is just for you." Generally clear from context, only sometimes told specifically
F: Does VP ever ask you not to write things down
L: (slowly) Sometimes, once or twice over a great period time
F: like what
L: Something operational like a war plan
F: Any time VP says it because he doesn't want a permanent record?
L: Dont think hes ever told me that
F: Never told not to write anything down about uranium/Wilson?
L: no, sir
F: If you didn't know info on Wilson's wife to be classified, why so deliberate to make sure reporters were saying it? (this has been published before)
L: Didn't want them to think it was coming from me, and might not be true — I didn't know he had a wife, as I said to Cooper
F: What did VP tell you about conversation with Pres to share NIE (w/Judy Miller)
L: I said, has the pres cleared it? He said, yes Not those words necessarily
F: VP speak to Pres personally, or on phone?
L: I don't know.
F: Was VP in town at the time?
L: Not sure, I think so.
F: Pres in town?
L: Think both were in town
F: Any other details you know of?
L: No, sir
F: Did the VP ask "have they done this sort of thing before"? (referring to his notes on Wilson op-ed)
L: He might have
F: What did you do in response
L: Don't konw if i did anything particular, he may have taken it up with Tenet, he knows I'm not agency person. I may have asked John McLaughlin about it.
F: Did VP tell you he talked with CIA?
L: Not about this specific part
F: What do you know he talked about
L: How trip came about
F: When did you learn this?
L: (pause) Summer… June, July, something like that. He's interested in this subject and doesn't do everything through me, does some stuff himself
F: Ever talk to a person named David Shedd? (paging David Corn!)
L: Have talked to him about a lot of things, but don't recall specifically about Wilson
F: VP ever talk to him about Wilson, Niger, or uranium
L: Don't know, maybe on the margins of a meeting.
… and with that, the grand jury testimony ends. Lunch time! Festivities to resume here between 2:15-2:30 pm ET, unless there are delays…
Related posts:
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
TEAM FDL !!!
It’s FITZMAS all around.
fitz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“..maybe on the margins of a meeting”–interesting turn of phrase..
An order of Swopapillas with extra Jane please.
SWOPA!
thank you Swopa!!!
Go Fitz. Save us from two more years of these moonbats.
I thought Russert and irving had the same attorney at one point?
(PunchPrincess @ 7 — methinx the right term is WingNuts)
Go FDL and Godspeed.
Here’s an invitation. When the server load gets high, as it DEFINITELY will soon — when Timmeh hits the stand — you may wanna join some of us at a live-chat on another server, over at
http://gabbly.com/firedoglake.com
It’s a fun kinda chat-app. We’ve had as many as 35 folx in there at one point earlier today. It’s a good place to discuss off-Libby stuff… Rayne introduced it a few days back and imho it’s cool. Sometimes we get harrassed by hackers, in which case we retreat to a private redoubt. Others of us know how to get its URL to you without publishing it here.
If you wanna join us, C U over in chat-land. Remember, because Gabbly runs on a completely other server somewhere on the ‘net, using it’ll take some of the heavy load off the FDL servers while Timmeh is walking over hot FitzCoals later…
Swopa, can you explain the reference to david corn, please? How does shedd play into this?
Who is David Shedd and how does he fit into this story?
Dandy idea to finish tape, THEN lunch WITH CAFFEINE for jury.
THEN Timmy & his [sore toe?]
Yes Timmy, there is a Fitzmas,
And ya better test the waters with a thermometer instead of yer…. oh dear…. that’s gotta hurt….
Still. Good to be reminded that life is real, not a game, eh Timmy?
This is key because it really limits the time when Bush and Dick supposedly declassified
Plame’s IDthe NIE. Cheney was in Jackson Hole for the July 4 weekend–don’t know where Bush was that weekend (though it’d be on Libby’s calendar). And then Bush left in evening of July 7. Not sure when Cheney came back on July 6 or 7 or 8, but it’s not clear they overlapped in DC during this time period.GOOD JOB SWOPS!!!!!!!!
New visitors to FDL liveblog of Libby Trial, please read
The liveblogging is creating enormous demands on the FDL servers. For that reason, Marcy is updating only every 15 minutes or so, and timestamping each update. Please do not “reload” the page more frequently than that. Also please be judicious in your use of comments (see below), and how often you refresh them, to reduce demands on the servers.
Peterr wrote:
A few reminders to the regulars and words of welcome to newcomers. .
FDL’s comments are moderated, mostly to eliminate the mass spam that flies around the Internet. All comments run first through an automated spam filter, and if caught, are then checked by human moderators, because in addition to spam, the filters also catch regular comments from time to time.
Here’s some info that will keep your comments from landing in moderation or otherwise clog things up and make life difficult for the mods:
1. Size matters. Long posts get automatically put in moderation and require the mods to set them free. If you want to use a post from elsewhere, don’t cut and paste the whole thing; just give us a link and post a snippet. It saves space here, and gives the original author the traffic they deserve on their site.
2. Words matter. Especially those words that appear in email spam. Creative use of asterisks in words like “ins*rance” or “vi*gra” will keep things from getting caught in the filters.
3. Links matter. If you put a comment in with more than two or three links, it will end up in moderation. If you absolutely, positively have to have multiple links, you probably want to split it into multiple comments.
4. Attribution matters. If you are posting a news item, give us a link so we know where it came from, how timely it is, and how credible it is.
5. Preview is your friend. Before you send that post, especially if you’ve used bold, italics, or inserted a link, check it out by clicking the preview button before you submit it. It saves on the cleaning bills.
6. Beware the ziggurat! That is, when you quote a comment that quotes a comment that quotes a comment, etc. the resulting nest can “bust the margins” of the webpage. To correct this, the mods have to go in and mess with the coding . . . it’s no fun, and can easily be avoided if you snip out some of the innermost comments of the nest or simply start a new comment and point back to the original with “Jane @ 25″ or some other referent.
Finally, and most importantly: Do not feed the trolls. It just encourages them, and makes life difficult for the mods.
If your comments do end up in moderation, don’t panic. The mods will see them, and free them up in short order. Comments that get held up in moderation, however, do NOT appear if you simply hit “Refresh Comments.” They come up when the entire page is reloaded using F5 or your browser’s “reload” function. Every so often, it’s worth reloading the page to see what might have been missed.
That’s also how Marcy makes her updates on the action in the courthouse. It keeps all the courtroom action in one place. (If she did it in the comments, her jewels would be scattered among our great questions and snark.) But have mercy on the servers, and don’t keep pounding away at them by reloading the page every 30 seconds to find The Latest New Thing. If she can wait 15 minutes to update, you can wait 15 minutes to reload.
And if you’re able, toss a few $$, euros, sheckles, or other fun currencies into the FDL donation basket up there on the right side of the page. That’s what makes this all possible.
Welcome to the ‘Lake! The water’s warm, so jump right in.
************************
also…. please help defray costs for this liveblogging effort by donating (buttons at top right of page). While FDL people are doing this work gratis, FDL had to rent an apartment for them to stay at, plus there are meals, travel, and other expenses to be covered.
Donations with 7 cents added (i.e. $50.07) are used specifically to support this live blog effort. Other donations will be used to support the site in general (like paying for bandwidth, etc….)
Thanx
SWOPA!!
Special
Weapon
Online
Prevarication
Annihilator
Who wants to speculate on how Timmy potatohead broke his toe/ foot?
I say he was kicking the wall at home in a fit of rage over having to be here today!!!
cathy @ 11
Shedd was CIA working in NSC at the time. He worked with Plame early in career and would know all details.
See here.
Thanks again, twolf1, you beat me to it! Great job!
Tap Duncan @ 17
I say testing the fitzmas waters before diving in.
We had Scooter’s “Draft 2″ schedule yesterday…it noted POTUS location at bottom, page 2. Did we have anything like that for 06, 07, 08-JUL?
Ya really gotta wonder what Darth Cheney’s definition of “incompetence” is—I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have anything to do with like, um, ah, accuracy.
Tap Duncan @
17
He fell in the well again.
Score!
Tap @ 17
Maybe it was running up the same “stairs” that I Lewis broke his foot on at the time he was arraigned.
rxbuxa — it’s not unlike the characterization of Judy Miller as a “responsible journalist”.
PunchPrincess at 7
.. if only …
the most corrupt administration since the 1777;
$12B unaccounted for in Iraq and that’s onlky 10% of the audit trail thus far …
despicable
wonder how Dr Evils’ Haliburton shares are faring; whoops, I meant cream skimming………
Adie & Balrog- You guys killed me!!!
“Lassie, Lassie, where’s Timmy?”
Adie @ 20
I say from kicking at his Tweety-Bozo-the-Clown toy and missing :)
Libby’s answers about the meat grinder metaphor were odd — or at least didn’t make sense to me. I found a reference in “Case for war undergoes renovation” by Terry M. Neal from July 12, 2003 in the Albany Times Union that contains the following paragraph:
“Former Republican National Committee spokesman Clifford May escorted groups of Iraqi exiles to the White House this spring, where they met with President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz. They shared tales of Saddam’s brutality — women being raped as a tool of political intimidation, political dissidents getting their tongues cut out, opponents being fed through meat grinders and dropped in acid vats. So the left’s behavior is particularly perplexing to May.”
So you all may know this, but I didn’t realize that at the time this was a metaphor for Saddam Hussein getting rid of his political enemies. So who was being compared to Saddam in Cheney’s rhetoric? Interesting?
Rayne @ 26
I wish he’d asked him “If Judy Miller is responsible, does that mean all the other journalists are irresponsible? Some of them? Who?”
Has anyone ever noticed when Russert is on the air in the evening he always looks kinda half in-the-bag? He never looks that way on MTP. Just when he has a special night time appearance.
Curious, didn’t Libby have to enter the courtroom on crutches when he was indicted because he too had a broken toe?
Maybe when the aspens turn at at the root they sometimes snap.
Isn’t it nice when your every expectation about someone is not only met but exceeded? Pat Fitzgerald has not let us down!
The GJ tapes will be released to the media, but will they be posted at the OSC website like all the other exhibits? Will people like me, not at the courthouse, be able to download this audio?
S.O.S. from MA @
29
Kick-Boxing the Clown.
ds @
24
Go find the transcript when it comes out and check Fitz’s exact phrasing — it was exquisite in bringing out the Rube Goldberg-esque nature of Libby’s memory. I got a nasty look in the press room for laughing so loudly. (Couldn’t help it, sorry.)
presque vu @ 25
The irony of this is just so bizarre. I remember my dad saying at the time that Libby was just trying to garner sympathy during this gj testimony. Perhaps Punkinhead is doing the same.
But NBC probably just put the screws to him – put his feet in a vise or something.
Swopa @ 37
I would have been right there with you, Swopa – I’m surprised the whole media room wasn’t busting up at that point.
Scoots plays football? What position do you reckon? Linebacker, maybe, plugging those holes?
swopa – you so ROCK! many, many thanks for an awesome job. don’t know how you (and marcy) do it.
I keep thinking about “Stripes” W/ Bill Murray
“Sgt. Hulka, you’re our big toe!”
“Well Winger why don’t you drop and give me 20 before Sgt. Hulka takes his big toe and shoves it up your ass!!”
Great question from a very smart grand juror!
So when Cooper wrote “don’t know if ever” could that have been in regards to Libby saying he didn’t know he “ever had a wife?”
selise @ 41
I second this–while Fitz’s words might have been a thing of beauty, you have conveyed the substance of the whole thing, to great comic effect I might add…
Swopa, did the David Shedd question come from the jurors?
Thanks for all your work.
F: Never told not to write anything down about uranium/Wilson?
L: no, sir
Here, just the word “sir” belies a lie, the addition of an adamant qualifier means he’s covering for Cheney on the most important question in the series.
ooo.. does that mean we’ll be getting mp3 link today/tonight?
Why does this remind me of an episode of M.A.S.H., with Radar sneaking a weekend pass into a stack of documents for Col. Blake to sign?
MarkC @ 30
Okay, here’s a speculation about the meatgrinder context.
Who was opponent? Wilson
Who was being protected? Staffer
Who was “that guy”? Libby? Wilson?
Who was asked to put their neck in the meatgrinder by the Pres? Libby? Wilson? by CIA? by Cheney?
Who is the fall guy in this whole thing?
Libby or Wilson?
Swopa, I laughed out loud reading your comments!Thanks so much for doing this for us.
A gajillion thanks, Swopa, for the gigantic public service. Et al..
-
Holy moly what a masterful fucking examination! A couple of threads ago I was chiding that Fitz (I think during Scooter’s first visit) was being too soft with the questions and letting evasions go without enough follow-up. But here he just pounds little Scooter. Just reading the cold (sort of) transcrript leaves me with the distinct impression that Libby is bullshitting (poorly to boot). I can’t imagine what he actually sounds like, but I bet it ain’t pretty.
Jep- Great observation, I’ll bet there are a lot shrinks annalyzing his testimony.
Tim broke his ankle ten weeks ago when his dog tangled up in his feet while he was carrying papers and dry cleaning up his stairs at home.
At JOM they say it is proof that his testimony will be lame. ;)
yeah, the Scooter as jock thing strikes me as just a bit funny. Also, if all the press people snicker at Scoot’s dissembling, it’s also funny that this doesn’t seem to be reported on so very much. ‘Ceptin here a few lefty blogsites that is. GRRRRRRUUFFFFFFF!!!!!
I thought this was interesting:
Given everything else that Libby didn’t “remember,” does this strike anyone else as a quasi-admission that Cheney DID tell Libby to leak Plame’s identity?
Short Libby – Liar liar pants on fire.
How can you tell someone you don’t remember an earlier conversation, but do remember a non-existent conversation and feel you may be violating IPA but not actually doing it.
emptywheel @ 13
Cheney ought to be sued for what this trial is costing society. Bottom line: the essence of what Wilson said was and still is true. The 16 words should not have been in the SOTU address. If they had just left it at that, then none of this would be necessary, and I would be getting more work done.
“I got a nasty look in the press room for laughing so loudly. (Couldn’t help it, sorry.)”
Laugh or cry, there’s not, much else you can do in this situation.
So who’s next, Russert?
Fabulous coverage – absolutely outstanding! Thanks so much to all you FDL folks for your amazing work on this project.
I tried the gabbly link (several times), and all I get is a window that says loading. I tried selecting login, but nothing. Is there something special I need to do to get beyond loading?
OT-Criminal charges for fraud in Iraq, during the reign of CPA. On CNN. It’s about damn time!
Someone in an earlier comment (I think it was in Installment 7) was asking about the obstruction of justice charge. I think I may have found it: Fitz asks Libby why he called Russert. Since Russert is the only prosecution witness to come that we know of, maybe there is something there.
Jwoods @ 59
I wouldn’t exert too much energy researching this, and not just ’cause I’m lazy. :)
Libby was pretty clearly improvising. I doubt that any such conversation actually took place, or if it did Libby doesn’t know squat about it.
Russert is up, ahhhhh the smell of pumpkin pie.
Who is going to do the examination.
Fitz?
BonAmici?
Thanks FDL. This is fascinating stuff. Keep up the good work.
TJ @ 62
What browser you using? I’m using FireFox on MacOSX and all goes swimmingly. I’ve seen some PC folks there too…
presque vu @ 40
cornerback: cornered, back to the wall
Sorry to be hoggish with the bandwidth, but the following is a great example of what I was referring to in No. 53 above. The answer to the first question is a complete evasion.
Right, here my temptation would have been to say, “I didn’t ask you what was on your fucking cards, you little weasel, but whether Cheney told you to talk about wilson’s wife. Now answer the fucking question I asked.” (Well, maybe with a tad less profanity.) so I was initially appalled that Fitz didn’t do this but instead seemed to shift gears:
But then watch what he does with a stacatto, rat-a-tat series of galing gun questions, bringing him back around to the original question and getting a qualified weasely quasi-admission.
That’s masterful work that is.
Arianna on Libby trial. She is obviously enjoying herself! Plug for FDL and, wow, Marcy, Jane and Pach all on today’s front page!
So did they run Russert’s crutches through the metal detector?
litigatormom – I left a note for you at the end of the last thread.
Meat grinder is the press corps.
“Not going to protect one staffer (Rover) and sacrifice the guy (the Scoots) this pres that was asked to… “
What Libby was telling the grand jury was whatever BS he made up on the spot. So it shoiuldn’t be expected to make any sense what so ever.
Swopa @ 65
I’ve been following this story closely for a couple of years now. If they had just retracted the 16 words (which they did), refute some weak points in Wilson’s op-ed, then this would have been over a long, long time ago. They had to squash the guy. In his book, Wilson tells a story where he was tipped off by a reporter, “They are coming for you.”
The whole reason for the Office of Special Projects was that Cheney didnt trust the CIA. So, when it came out that the CIA sent a guy to investigate a WMD lead, and he makes Cheney look bad, Cheney had to retaliate against him. How dare a CIA agent (or one acting on their behalf) make the pres or vpres look bad on taxpayers’ dollars! Who cares if she is looking into WMD issues in Iran! She is making me look bad!
Is this any way to run a public office?
zig alert!
“Boondoggle” is the word that gets me.
On or after 7/6, Cheney writes this on his copy of Wilson’s op-ed.
On July 12, Libby calls Kessler…and Kessler asks Libby, out of the blue, “Was this a boondoggle?”
It’s a nice word and all, but seriously, that’s quite a remarkable linguistic coincidence. Two people, supposedly out of the blue and without collaboration, each use that word to describe the same trip! And as some wise and/or witty person once said, I believe in coincidences…but I don’t trust in them.
(unless “boondoggle” is a very common word batted about at DC cocktail parties…anyone who has gone to one of those parties who could comment?)
I’m envisioning Bush, Cheney and Rove limping off into the sunset with Scooter and Timmeh tagging along behind.
emptywheel, thanks for the Shedd reference from Corn.
new thread
steelthing — thanks very much to you, once again, for being a patron. This is the most exciting event I can think of in many years, and you’ve help enormously to make it happen.
TJ — have you rebooted recently? the Gabbly app is based in Java, also.
You can understand, even reading Swopa’s paraphrase of Libby’s testimony, why Fitz was so pissed at him. As Fitz said in the indictment, he just lies, repeatedly, without any regard for the fact that he’s under oath.
Rayne @ 81
I’ll echo that acknowledgment. satisfied with your ROI?
“If they had just retracted the 16 words (which they did), refute some weak points in Wilson’s op-ed, then this would have been over a long, long time ago.”
But would the public have been frightened enough, without those heavy words, to allow COngress to give Bush the go-ahead? And would other sources like Wilson, privy to the well-hidden truth, have come forward, had not Dickless and the boys gone after Wilson.
Especially considering the gravity of the threat against Valerie, one might assume that going after her as a way to get Joe made a very clear statement that NO ONE CROSSES CHENEY.
Think about it: Just how important were those 16 words in framing the debate?
Without those words, the war very well might not have happened in the first place.
joel@ 77
yes, and “boondoggle” is what one immediately thinks of when hearing of a trip to … Niger!
L re: Cheney
He’s interested in this subject and doesn’t do everything through me, does some stuff himself
oh really?
If you think the Libby tapes were bad…
Imagine for a moment Rover’s five GJ trips?
Jack
mnlurker @ 85
Indeed, a trip to a the poorest country in sub-Saharan Africa (no mean feat that), the second-poorest country in the world, a landlocked parcel of dust and rock where you can’t travel outside the capital without a four-wheel drive vehicle — a place on which the State Department lavishes four paragraphs of crime warnings — that is my idea of a boondoggle. Fuck Cabo, MasterCard take me away to Niamey!
Notta Flatlander @ 74
Whatever the meat grinder was, using a meat grinder meant a particular thing in the White House, it was associated with Saddam’s treatment of his enemies (see @30). And the original note said “the pres asked to” and “the pres” was replaced with “that was”. It seems to me he’s saying the pres asked Libby to fall on his sword, and used a metaphor that implicitly compared the POTUS to Saddam Hussein. Not big news, but interesting.
I agree Libby was just artfully dodging in front of the Grand Jury — and I also think his interpretation was deliberately obtuse.
joel@77
I thought that Cheney wrote “junket”, not “boondoggle.” However, I understand your point.
(Did he write “boondoggle” elsewhere?)
joel @ 77
Hi. First time commenter here, and from the other side, but I can say something about the currency of the world “boondoggle” in DC. It’s actually very common, but not so much at cocktail parties. It’s more like bureaucrat-ese. My Dad worked at the State Department for years, where the word was used quite broadly to mean any official travel that was pointless/meaningless. It certainly didn’t carry the connotations of nepotism that people on both sides seem to be reading into it. More like somebody going on vacation on the Department’s dime.
As an aside, there used to be a comic strip called “SuperCrat” in State magazine (the in-house mag for department employees), the protagonist of which was a rather dull diplomat character in a Superman outfit. Anyway, his faithful companion was a dog named “Boondoggie”.
Great comments above about boondoggle, meat grinder and Fitz’s questioning style. It’s what I come here for – thanks.
noblejoanie @ 3
The phrase “individuals at the margins” also was used in reference to those asked about what occurred in the CIA briefing for Wilson before he went to Niger. Apparently Ford wasn’t able to directly interview CIA people who were IN the meeting or even his own staffers who attended…and he used “individuals at the marginb” (i.e. hearsay) to reconstruct what happened.
Over a year later Se. Pat Robert’s “investigators” decided to use the same secpndhand memo for the SSIC Report rather than actually, again, asking those actually IN the meeting!
Yes, it was a great observation, Jep – doubtless the “sir” being swiftly added, so it didn’t come out strangulated, as he quietly choked on it in a quavering mumble.
And then have to repeat it.
urban pirate @ 10
Shedd was a former CIA agent with diplomatic cover in Central America…a close associate of Negroponte. He was working in the SC at the time.
Corn believes that he was the source of the actual naming of “Plame”…that he knew who she was and told others…rather than the info coming directly from the CIA.
http://www.boomantribune.com/s…..23847/2172
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0505/050905nj1.htm
http://www.dni.gov/aboutODNI/bios/shedd_bio.htm
It’s interesting that a Grand Juror took this possibility seriously…suggesting that Fitz briefed them on this, or some other witness discussed Shedd…perhaps Shedd himself provided testimony?
Notta Flatlander @ 74
But if the Press Corps was the “meatgrinder” then wasn’t Rove also “sticking his head in the meat-grinder” (talking to the Press)?
Was Rove simply volunteering this information? Perhaps HE was Cheney’s incompetant one?
And if Libby was the one ASKED by the President to put his neck in the meatgrinder…then wasn’t the disclosure of his identity the
“sacrifice” that he willingly accepted?
Was he trying to weasel out of his “martyrdom”?
Maybe the “meatgrinder” relates to some greater risk than simply media exposure…maybe it relates to facing the threat of felony prosecution for leaking classified information?
Libby volunteered but others screwed it up…exposed the the whole caper through negligence, and opened the gateway to bring down the whole conspiracy. Or at least that’s what Libby told Cheney….that he covered his trail well…that Rove screwed it up! Or maybe that ARI screwed up.
The reason Libby’s neck is in the meatgrinder is because everyone else was briefed about the strategy for the cover-up, but the incompetant one (probably resigned/fired/died around the same time) did not brief Libby on tactical plausible deniability.
I almost hate to suggest watching Hardball tonight, but Tweetie and David Shuster are doing a whole hour on the Libby tapes. Might be fun…
Maybe Libby had a hand in organizing the creation of the Niger uranium “yellowcake” forgeries in the first place and potentially faced the legal system meatgrinder for this clearly illegal activity.
Maybe the ‘incompetent’ one was the person who allowed the forgeries to be exposed for what they were/are.
Who that ‘incompetent’ person might be isn’t entirely clear, but someone at the CIA who sent Wilson to Niger or authorized him to investigate or okayed an op-ed by him would be one possibility.
But, keep in mind, there were reports that a ‘report about Saddam trying to buy uranium in Africa’ was also discussed with regard to another country and then quickly dismissed. And, there were two other individuals who were in or went to Niger and investigated the allegation: the US ambassador (hellish job that) and a military colonel (I think) and their report mirrored Wilson’s, that there was no uranium being sold to Saddam.
The key difference is that Wilson wrote the op-ed and that his wife was working on nuclear non-proliferation in the middle-east (Iraq & Iran at least).
It almost seems like the idea that Wilson had to be discredited was as much a cover reason for outing Plame as it was a real desire to punish anyone who opposed them.