
(This image via The Illustrated Daily Scribble.)
In the Los Angeles Times this morning, media critic Tim Rutten offers some deliciously snarky daydreaming:
Libby's notes reveal that, in fact, he was told of Plame's connection to the CIA by Cheney himself and that their conversation occurred a full month before the alleged exchange with Russert. For their part, Libby and his attorneys insist that he simply was a busy man with a poor memory, and, if he had access to his notes when he was interviewed by the FBI agents, he would not have misled them.
Now that's interesting.
. . . let's wonder just how often Libby confused things Cheney told him with things reporters told him. Given the vice president's extraordinary influence over administration policy, if it happened with any frequency, it might explain a great deal about what's happened over the last six years.
Maybe we all should be grateful that Libby was talking to the relatively harmless Russert, whose primary fault seems to be a career-enhancing excess of affability.
Where might we be if Libby had confused Cheney's instructions with those of, say, Pat Buchanan or Ann Coulter or, God help us, Bill Kristol?
Lucky break there.
Both emptywheel and David Corn say the safe bet at this point is that Big Dick won't testify (despite the promise by Libby's attorneys) to tell us exactly what he thought of his chief of staff's crappy memory, since there are too many awkward questions the Veep isn't likely to relish having to answer under oath. But a contrary theory is put forward by the Washington Post's legal correspondent:
Witness after witness, several of them eminently credible, have come forward to tell jurors that Libby knew about Valerie Plame Wilson, the covert CIA agent, before the time frame he later disclosed to grand jurors and federal investigators. If jurors have to choose only between Libby's statements at face value and the testimony of all those other witnesses, Libby will lose and be convicted. But if jurors come to believe that Libby merely made a mistake, he has a chance.
. . . special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is doing a masterful job of introducing evidence, through testimony, that paints Libby in a shoddy light. Prosecution witnesses, taken together, have characaterized him as a slimy bureaucratic operative who was more interested in his own political survival than the good of the nation. Libby's lawyers will have to counter this when their witnesses take the stand– one reason why Vice President Dick Cheney is still expected to be a prime defense witness.
Really, when you think about it, who else on planet Earth would be willing to serve as a character witness for Scooter Libby? Can't be a terribly large pool to choose from.




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FITZ
Nice query, Swopa. Are you excited about tomorrow and live blogging? I know I can’t wait!!
DeadEye could probably find somebody in the mouth-breathing 16% down in the basement of his JAR. But then they’re probably complete whackjobs and are capable of nearly anything outrageously irrational.
conversely, who would want Crazy Dick to vouch for their character?
Swopa – how amusing and also tragic – who would want this Vice President of the United States as a character witness?
Mark Steyn could send Irving some Barbara Striesand records couldn’t he?
‘ Memories?’
Help pass the time at Club Fed.
No way Dick will sacrifice himself for Scooter.
G’morning Swopa & Rayne…
Following the live blogging has as much fun as watching the Repugs getting tromped on Nov 7th.
I know that my view is different from the average Joe six pack. Does anyone know what they are hearing about this trial?
Maybe he can cut a deal to get into the witless relocation program.
Dick Cheney, vouching for someone’s character?
Ha!
there’s always this guy ;)
Swopa,
belated props on your Iraq post last night – your posits on Medhi vs Sunni were spot on Francona and the other clowns must keep Swopa voodoo dolls right next to their Gilliard’s
I think if Dick Cheney was my best chance at a character witness I’d ask him to shoot me in the face.
Is Irving’s momma still alive? Would she even be able to testify to her spawn’s character?
Rutten’s commentary is delicious. Scary, but delicious.
EPU’d from last thread – meta question:
Question for Mods: – When I quote a comment that contains nested subcomments, I’ll often pull out some of the subcomments that are unnecessary. Every now and then, it looks kinda weird, like comment 107 in this thread:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…../#comments
(sorry, I haven’t figured out how to link to an actual post in a thread yet. Any help would be appreciated on that!)
The quote is not in a box, and is instead separated by my response by a squiggly line. No italicised text. I’ve noticed it in preview, but didn’t see an open HTML tag. Did I miss one, or did I miss something else that made it look weird?
Just curious – if that type of post is a headache for you, I’ll make sure to review the HTML tags more carefully.
I find it hard to believe that Deadeye Dick Cheney will be willing to testify under oath. Too many real questions which he must answer. Won’t happen, will it?
What’s incredibly sad, though, is that while we are poking fun at the bizarre spectacle of the seemingly malignant Cheney as a potential “character” witness, Cheney Co. is robbing us blind.
He is a reflection upon our inability as a nation to select and elect persons of character to represent us and our needs; he is a reflection of the basest of our own character, elevated for the world to see while we as a nation deny the existence of such evil within us.
He has his entire life had “other priorities“, although unexpressed, clearly not in sync with the greater good. Truth be told now: it has been this way with America due to its perception of exceptionalism. We have had “other priorities”, too; if only we can recover and redeem ourselves in time, and perhaps by starting with changing Cheney’s “other priorities.”
Rayne @15: “seemingly” malignant Cheney?
Good Morning Folks,
Sorry for sleeping in. Have some fun.
Good point Rayne. BushCo and the rest of the gangsters are perpetrating the classic “bust-out”
Sound familiar?
karen allen @ 14
Karen, I think the answer to your question depends directly on the size of Dick’s ego.
Agree, Dick will not sacrifice himself. But he’ll try something and it’ll backfire completely and that will be even better. Oh please let Deadeye take the stand!
BTW, Tim Rutten appears every Sat morning in the LA Times and is almost always excellent. I’ve wondered for awhile that he’s still at the LAT, considering how he criticizes the press in general and the political press specifically. Seems a bit out there for the Tribune Company.
Here’s what joe six pack is hearing about the Libby trial.
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/w……html?8dpc
Apparently, Libby’s memory defense is made more ‘plausible’ by the fact that the prosecution’s witnesses don’t have perfect memories either. I call bullshit.
I’m watching “Late Edition with Wolfie”, and he has Vilsack on. Wolfie just showed a clip of Linsday Graham saying “it is not in the US best interest to have a Shia/Sunni bloodbath in Iraq”.
Um, why didn’t you mention that in 2002 or 2003, Senator Graham? Don’t pretend that you didn’t realize this could have been a very likely outcome from Georgie’s War.
Oh, and don’t even pretend you don’t know about what’s happening in Turkey – how they’ve amassed large numbers of troops on the border with Northern Iraq/Kurdistan, and are threatening to invade. Oh, I suppose that had never occurred to you as something that might happen if we invade Iraq and remove all military, police, and government and have no plan to secure the country.
Stupid idjit. Even someone like me had more than an inkling that if we invaded Iraq, we could end up creating a mess for decades to come. And I’m not that well educated on world politics or the middle east. I also don’t get PAID to do a little research and come up with educated assessments of the pros and cons of illegally overthrowing governments. You do get paid to do that kinda stuff.
/rant off
BTW, am I the only one who cannot see Tom Vilsack without expecting the Aflac duck to pop up out of the corner of the TV screen? Damn you, Jon Stewart! :)
Twisted Martini @ 18
It does, and it is why they need to be removed from power. I’m happy to see Nancy Pelosi is making some noise about Iran, but I want to see impeachment brought up. Start with Alberto, maybe, but there’s no point in pretending the administration is suddenly going to start playing by the rules.
Of course it is Bullsh*t. (Have you read the book on Bullsh*t? Parses the sh*t, for sure.)
Of course everyone has memory lapses. But on the substance, each witness either has the documents to support the main time line, or has enough memory to establish the sequence.
JudyJudyJudy is not a good liar. She really is not good at the cover up. She does have some secrets to spill, but so far, she has held those secrets we do not know while we totally know that she knows somethings she does not want to admit.
The known knowns. The known unknowns. The unknown unknowns.
Where have we heard that?
Judy at 159, my response got EPU’d but I feel the need to re-post. You said it was not nice for me to call Lindsey a Graham Cracker. I just can’t be sorry about that:
Sorry, but he’s my Senator and I was born and raised in a cracker state so I feel it is my prerogative to criticize my own peeps. I make no apology for calling them names, I have been called so many names by Northerners just because I’m from SC. And they know nothing about me or my beliefs. I’ve been called a cracker. I think I have a perfect right to call my Senator, who is helping to pimp this war, a cracker if I so choose.
Josh over at TPM has a story about Cheney not revealing who works for him in OVP -doesn’t have to. Now, why doesn’t the freedom of information act apply to him?
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002427.php
Character witness for Libby? Hell, the White House is full of really believable folks. Kearl Rove comes to mind. No doubt we would all like him on the stand. Tom Delay would be really fine too! Cheney, ya, he would be good as long as you don’t ask about his daughter Mary. Condi Rice would be good as long as she doesn’t over-dress, she needs to keep it tasteful. GW would be good but you would probably need to submit the questions ahead of time. It wouldn’t look good for the defense if the prez couldn’t answer in English.
ReneND @ 26
I think it would be safe to say it is because being the Supreme Dark Force of the Universe means nobody dares to f&#k with you. That includes Wolf Blitzer.
Can anyone here speculate on why Cheney wasn’t on the list of witnesses for the prosecution?
LandOfTheFree @
22
That was in response to Vilsack saying Congress should cut off funding. At least he understands what the real lever is, unlike Joe “nonbinding resolution” Biden. Vilsack sometimes has an “eat-your-spinach” kind of charisma, but he’s a bright, able guy.
•
Scooter’s defense may want to take the following into account ( h/t to Digby, http://digbysblog.blogspot.com…..7960598882 )
If this is the kind of reception Bush, the President of the United States of America, is receiving in Peoria, IL, what kind of reception do Libby’s lawyers think Dick Cheney will get in a Washington, DC, courtroom?
Do Wells, Jeffress, et. al., seriously think Cheney has any credibility left with anyone of sound mind?
I suspect Cheney won’t be called to testify in Libby’s defense, in part to avoid awkward questions, but more importantly because, either way, it won’t do Scooter any damn good.
•
SubwaySerenade @ 28
Because they want people who are at least capable of telling the truth?
Susan in Iowa @ 29
You know, I feel like I’d catch a bunch of crap from my Dem friends (the very few I have) for saying this out loud, but I am very turned off by these Dems who keep blaming the Iraqis, which is exactly what Vilsack did on The Daily Show. If they’ve got some good ideas for the war, thank you, thank you very much, but shut yer trap about how ungrateful and uncooperative these poor people are, these people who asked for none of this.
I don’t know how much of that I can overlook, because it turns my stomach. But I know if I am to be a good little Dem and take my medicine, I must behave and let it pass because no one seems to be criticizing them for this.
Here’s what the conclusion will be: Libby will indeed be convicted. Everyone will let out the huge breath they’ve been holding and realize the balloon is now out of air. It’s over.
He’ll get a slap on the wrist–something rather less than Ney got. He’ll announce his appeal; perhaps the President will step in at that point “for the good of the nation” and pardon him, but it’s not necessary that he be pardoned.
The appeal will take place in months or years, and the whole affair will develop a crust of ubiquity and tedium and process detail and eventual irrelevance, until it’s “Libby who?” and then, “who cares?”
The ring of waves will spread, spread, and eventually die away, and the CheneyCo Five Year Plan will march on.
If Abu Ghraib and Gitmo can still exist, and they do, and this administration can still be in power, and it is, then this trial is just a hush puppy thrown to the barking dogs, with no regime-changing power whatsoever.
They don’t care how they look. They don’t care if you find out their designs. By the time everyone knows, the big darkness will have already arrived on the doorstep.
Sorry to be so cynical and pessimistic.
oh JGabriel -
thanks so much for the link – too Fitzerpated to hear about it let alone Digby’s take – luscious
bwaahaaahaaaa!
I have this little daydream where Cheney testifies, where Walton allows, and Fitzgerald shows all those clips from MTP and elsewhere where Cheney is seen making the connection between al Qaeda, 911, and Saddam Hussein. “Mr. Vice President you said this on such and such a date. It was immediately disproved by among others your own intelligence agencies. You repeated it again here. Again it was disproved.” Multiply this scenario times the 10 or 12 times Cheney went through this charade over the course of the last 4 years.
Walton of course would never admit this but as I said it is a daydream and it sure goes to the issue of Cheney’s credibility.
Mandrake @ 32
I think your brush is too broad. I saw that show, and I understood him to be talking about the Iraqi leadership, as distinguished from the Iraqi people generally. And I think it’s a fair point. There is a power struggle going on in Iraq that is directly in opposition to the best interests of the Iraqi people. One view is that we are enabling it by propping up the current government, and picking sides.
I am not a Vilsack partisan, and do not yet support any of the Dem ‘08 candidates. But I think he is a serious person, and worth listening to.
You’re crossing the line there, Swopa.
Seriously, can’t wait till you and Jane are live blogging tomorrow.
Throughout the last six years of Cheney’s presidency, he has always told the media that he wouldn’t testify or give up any information that might be required by him. The 9/11 Commission, the energy companies on the consultant payroll, etc.
Now, he says publicly that of course he’ll testify for his good, good friend Scooter Libby. It’s all too convenient. The defense will make some excuse as to why it’s not necessary for him to testify. He’s not goin’ do it.
OT – If I may return to the subject of closing tags that people were having trouble with last thread — I wonder if I, too, was doing the ‘quote’ thing wrong.
For the first time this a.m., I saw a comment, clicked on the “quote this” button, and it took the comment and placed it at the bottom in the open comment section, ready for me to write something to go along with it.
I did however preview and it looked fine. Does preview always prevent any mistake here? I thought it worked really ‘nifty’, and had hoped to use it again.
Sorry, back to programming.
msauna @
19
First question: Do you swear to tell the truth?
People like me are “intellectually dishonest”. What does this mean?
WASHINGTON – The top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee sought to weaken support for a resolution opposing President Bush’s Iraq war strategy, saying Sunday that supporters are intellectually dishonest.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..co/us_iraq
SubwaySerenade @
29
Because a prosecutor never puts someone on the stand if there’s a possibility they’ll be indicted in the case. Can you say “unindicted co-conspirator”? Sure, I knew you could. ;)
Bush’s Truman Show
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16…../newsweek/
Cheney will never go to jail. He’ll never really be held accountable for his misdeeds in his lifetime.
Rayne @ #2,
Re Cheney’s 16% job approval rating. Has anybody seen a poll which contrasts Cheney’s popularity or lack thereof with approval ratings here and in their native countries for people like Hugo Chavez, (Bolivian president) Evo Morales, Daniel Ortega, (Chilean president) Michelle Bachelet Jeria, Fidel Castro, etc? I know in Alaska, last fall – after he had donated at cost a couple milliion gallons of heating fuel to rural Alaskan communities, Chavez had a popularity spike here in the high 20s.
Our media seems to relish demonizing all these Latino Americano leaders, with the possible exception of Bachelet (give them time, eh?). But I wonder how unpopular Deadeye Darth is in our country compared to some foreign leaders who are generally characterized in negative terms.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Hi Kiddo. Lessee, here’s a quote.
Kiddo, I don’t think he’s talking about you. Looks to me like he’s talking about Hilly and Biden and the rest of the tap-on-wrist crew. And I have to agree with him on this.
How about holding Henry Kissinger accountable? And to think… this criminal is still advising a U.S. prez. And making millions to boot.
Frank Rich via Raw Story:
Susan in Iowa @ 37
That’s good to know. I hear the same stuff mandrake is talking about, and it bothers me as well.
Re Vanna @34 : “Here’s what the conclusion will be: Libby will indeed be convicted. Everyone will let out the huge breath they’ve been holding and realize the balloon is now out of air. It’s over.”
Your take is one of several possibilities. If no other indictments occur in the wake of a Libby conviction, I think what you imagine is more probable. After all, much of the revealing information being brought to light in this case has been out there for a year and a half so a conviction on ‘technical’ crimes without someone being indicted for an ‘underlying crime’ likely won’t change public perception much from what it already is (which is subfreezing for BushCo anyway).
Now if an indictment of another person(s) is announced, or there are superceding indictments for Libby piggy-backed on a conviction in this trial, I think we’re looking at an entirely different playing field. There will be a more concerted effort by the public to ‘get it’ and, with a Libby conviction locked down, the spotlight will be on bad actors in the WH and not on a would be ‘renegade prosecutor’.
Based on what has yet to be completed, an awful lot can still happen.
.
Hillary? Biden? OMG.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
I believe it means that their stated reasons are not their real reasons. He probably means “they say they’re doing this because they think the policy is bad, but they’re actually doing it because they’re cowardly and trying to disassociate themselves for political gain.” (If he was talking about Democrats, it would mean that they’re only doing it because they hate Bush, for no reason.)
In my book, it’s kinda hard to complain about people being intellectually dishonest when you’re supporting people who are just plain dishonest.
Dan Eggen at the WaPo is looking into the US Attorney purge today (h/t Truthout).
Doing the math: 7 ‘resignations’ in the Christmas purge, 11 other vacancies, that’s 18 appointments w/o congressional approval and for an indefinite term. Ladies and gents, there are only 47 US atty’s — we’re getting up to half of them as good old GOP operatives.
This is another bomb in the Patriot Act. How about we get that sucker repealed?
AZ Matt @ 50
What I can’t figure is why anybody thinks Cheney will turn a hair at perjury?
Cheney can be indicted for perjury.
I want Lieberman held to account almost more than I do Cheney.
LandOfTheFree @ 22
The wingnuts endlessly trot out arguments that it will be a disaster if we leave, and every one of them is a much better argument that we should never have gone in the first place.
Tithonia @ 57
It’s gotta be prosecuted and proven. See my #55.
Dinesh D’Souza is the largest human scrotum on the planet, someone get Guinness on the phone.
-GSD
Swopa @ 50. I think it would be unfair to blame “the American people” for the excesses of the Bush Administration. But just as people abroad might talk about what oafs “the Americans” are, when they mean our government, I think some of our politicians use “the Iraqis” as shorthand for Maliki and the parliament, whose performance leaves room for improvement.
We should call them on being sloppy with language, when they are. But I do not think any of the Democratic candidates are lacking in compassion for the Iraqi people, who have suffered 1000 deaths just last week.
OT Part of this Friday’s news dump which went unnoticed was a meeting of the Quartet on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Condoleezza Rice presided and she said that they had agreed to a commitment to a process that would lead to a return to the Roadmap which in turn is supposed to lead to a final settlement. Do you notice how many removes this is to actually doing anything, especially since not only the general outline but most of the details for a final settlement have been known for at least 20 years?
What I found telling during the press conference accompanying the Quartet’s meeting was that all questioners directed their queries to either Rice and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov or to Lavrov alone. This is because no one expects anything but pap from Rice but Lavrov is the one minister most likely to be at odds with the official position and so gives the best indication of how much latitude there is among the Quartet’s members on its announced positions.
An episode like this also goes to show how our standing in the world has been diminished by the Bush Administration when the world’s press feels more comfortable going to the Foreign Minister of an increasingly dictatorial Russia for real answers to real questions.
HotFlash @ 54
If a candidate wants to take a bold position, how about declaring their intention to repeal everything that has been passed since Bush took office? I could get behind that in a big way. The parts that are actually necessary we could do over again, and do them right.
Imagine waking up to the headlines after the Nov. elections in 2008: ‘Hillary wins!’
HotFlash @ 47
What he’s doing is encouraging the stop-funding crowd to fight with the nonbinding-resolution crowd, since that split serves Republican interests.
People who want to do more than a nonbinding resolution need to support the nonbinding resolution, get it out of the way, then come back the very next day (or hour) and push for taking the next step.
Passing the nonbinding resolution gets former war supporters on the slippery slope toward forcing a withdrawal, just as passing the AUMF in 2002 trapped its supporters into backing the invasion six months later.
That was a cute scribble atop this posting. I looked but didn’t find any evidence of Cheney dragging Scooter into position where he’d be taking that bullet. But ah do bleev that Scooter was drug.
I keep imagining Cheney on the witness stand, trying the “You’re out of line with that question, Mr. Fitzgerald” defense. Now THAT would be Schweet!
TheOtherWA @
43
This makes no sense. I do admit that Fitz is doing a marvelous job, and perhaps he doesn’t need Cheney to get Libby’s conviction. I just can’t see the VP being any help to the defense.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
Intellectually dishonest here means that you are more wedded to facts than good solid beliefs. Why, oh why, do you and so many others here at FDL continue to put such credence in your own lying eyes?
Hagel: McCain’s Iraq Plan “Intellectually Dishonest”
ABC News Posted February 4, 2007 10:31 AM
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
HotFlash @ 47
Swopa @ 66
Sure hope we have time for all of this.
Hugh @ 68
I don’t know. There’s just no accounting for myself. ;0)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 45
His pacemaker has an “off” switch. Poppy Bush keeps it in his desk, just in case. Just like Batman has a chunk of Kryptonite laying around in case Kal El goes berserk.
S.O.S. from MA @
66
One of the most infuriating things about Cheney in the Wolfie interview was his Big Swinging **** attitude. His interruptions of questions, patronizing put-downs, refusals to answer. I would consider going to DC just to watch Fitz ask him questions and the judge make him answer. Which he would have to do, or be in legal contempt, as opposed to the contempt of 80% of the American people.
Swopa @ 65
The obverse of this is also true. It is a vehicle to mark those yahoos who continue to support Bush in ‘08 and beyond.
Redshift @ 63
I’ve written to Sen. Murkowski on these Patriot Act DoJ appointments.
Alaskans are perhaps the most suspicious state population in the country about the act. She’s made campaign and post-campaign statements to address those concerns, and I’m asking her to step up to the plate.
In the period November 2005 – March 2006, she joined with Sen. Specter in seeking some changes for the act’s reauthorization:
Our group identified four areas of concern where we sought improvement: 1) the standard to obtain a Section 215 order for production of business records should more closely follow Senate-passed language requiring a statement of facts to show the records sought pertain to foreign intelligence information, rather than the presumed relevance standard of the conference report. We also wanted to provide the recipient of a Section 215 order with the ability to challenge the disclosure gag order; 2) provide meaningful judicial review of a National Security Letter (NSL) gag order; 3) reduce the sunset time frame for those provisions not permanently authorized from seven years to four years; and 4) reduce the timeframe under a delayed notification order (sneak and peek) for when the government must notify the target of their search.
and they worked on that, and on sunset provisions, but the U.S. Attorney replacement issue wasn’t on many radar screens at the time. I’m hoping Murkowski and Specter can make some headway with their party on this.
Susan in Iowa @ 36
That struggle would not be taking place on the scale that it is now if we had not invaded. These people did not ask us to come into their country and destroy their infrastructure and it is irresponsible to blame them for the chaos that has ensued. We need someone to admit our mistakes and the impact they have had on the lives of those in the Middle East. It should not be too difficult to understand the moral imperative of doing this. I really haven’t seen any evidence of this in Vilsack’s position or that of any Dem candidates currently running.
Iraqi leadership is caught between a Bush and a hard place named Moqtada. How anyone can blame them for being right where we put them is not something I am unable to understand. Again, this was my read on his position and I’m sure others read it differently as well.
Hugh @ 75
My gut tells me we have only until 2008. They will have recalibrated the voting machines by then, the courts will be stacked with zombie judges and prosecutors, and the K Street Money Machine will be back in biz.
What with some good luck (Enron and Foley and Howard Dean’s 50 state plan), we managed to get the gun away from the bad guy. We’re holding it on him but the safety is still on. He knows it, we don’t. And you thought Nov 2007 was a train wreck.
Mandrage @ 76
EPUd, but I think you are wrong about Vilsack. He has been talking about this. However, he obviously needs to do a better job of explaining himself if this is your impression. Maybe we get more coverage in Iowa because of who he is.
karen allen (16) — sorry to be so long in reply.
I meant that Cheney seems malignant on the surface.
In truth he is far, far worse.
Wish I could share research I am doing for a project right now; the numbers support a “bust-out” as mentioned above.
And it’s got Cheney’s fingerprints all over it. I don’t know what it’s going to take for the American public to finally snap and deal with this thing masquerading as a human.
Hugh @ 67
I never heard this term until Stephen Colbert used it when talking about Rush Limbaugh. Now it’s everywhere. Maybe it was before and I just didn’t notice. Regardless, it certainly represents the Republican party as a whole and it is quite ironic for them to be using the term. Still, figures.
ReneND @
26
The presumption is that executive privilege applies to OVP, as well (that privilege exempts the WH from FOIA). If they say, however, that they are not part of the Executive, then that claim to privilege should be questioned.
M’self, the issue of the purse ought to be applied here, as well. When Cheney’s office outspent its travel budget by almost double, Congress just looked the other way.
Now, they could solve the problem of Richard Bruce Cheney usurping power by defunding his office to the minimum required by the Constitution, i.e., pay his salary and nothing else. No staff, no travel, nothing. We could probably save immense trouble for the nation by simply cutting off his phones.
Susan in Iowa @ 77
Well, I’m really not thinking about it too much. The only reason I think about it at all is because we are being inundated with presidential candidates from every which way and I really wish it would just stop. As someone who has been against this war from the very beginning, campaigned for an anti-war candidate (back when it was taboo to criticize the war) and saw my candidate eviscerated by the media, I have little internal patience for the entire presidential-hopeful media obsessions that are going on now. There is no one besides perhaps Edwards (and that’s stretching it) that I would even remotely think about.
Libby doesn’t have a real defense. He has just decided to take Cheney, Rove and possibly Bush down with him, maybe hoping for a pardon, but probably because he is bitter and feels used.
“First question: Do you swear to tell the truth?”
“F*CK YEAH!”
(not so good for a character witness. no way they put him on the stand)
Rayne @ 80
Rayne, how do we ‘deal with’ him? Our most effective action seems to be to stamp our feet and whistle. They have insulated themselves against all of the lawful avenues of influence available to the people. I am not advocating unlawful avanues, I am simply noting that they have set up a really good defense, it has been tested over the years and constantly improved. (see my 55)
Public protests don’t work, writing to ‘our’ congresscritters is an exercise in perusing their auto-generated responses, often irrelevant to the original subject. Popularity? Hey, “we don’t govern by polls”, and elections are, well, disappointing. We have even seen lawful activities ‘chilled’ by aggressive private prosecution, eg, Spocko and Disney. 50 years ago a scandal might have brought a government down, but now we have a scandal or a dozen every day. Ho hum. How about those Colts?
mandrake @ 76
Muqtada al Sadr is part of the Iraqi leadership. It took 175 days for the Iraqi leadership to come up with the weak, corrupt excuse of a government it now has. The Parliament seldom meets because it can’t achieve a quorum because so many of its members live outside the country.
I don’t understand why just because we have a failed political leadership that this is somehow an argument that the Iraqis don’t have a failed one as well. It actually is fairly accurate to describe Maliki as a second string player from a second string party. This and the institutionally and constitutionally weak nature of the national government explain why leaders like Maliki dither while their country burns.
Swopa @ 65
That’s pretty much what I was arguing when I was trying to suss out Webb’s position the other night. I was nervous from the descriptions I’d read of Warner’s resolution that it talked about maintaining funding for the troops, which could be used to argue that supporters had committed to not using the power of the purse to end the war. However, the actual text doesn’t seem to say that. It says:
which doesn’t say supporters aren’t going to do that, just that this resolution doesn’t do it, and senators who don’t support withdrawal can vote for it.
I’d rather have a binding withdrawal resolution, of course, but strategically, anything that gets Republicans on record directly opposing the president (without precluding other options) seems like a good thing.
steve ex-expat @ 84
When you work for guys like this it’s like the Secret Service. You know that one day you may have to take the bullet. Scooter is covering up as best he can for something *really* big. They didn’t know to begin with what Fitz knew so coverup was clumsy at first. I think they probably know everything Fitz knows now. If Scooter were not being a good minion he would be dead. He also has a wife and child who, presumably, mean something to him. If/when convicted he will have soft time, early parole, then nice think-tank jobs ’til the end of his days. If his bosses are trustworthy and he has a dead-man switch for insurance somewhere.
…it was a dark and undisclosed location.
DC – Irving, it appears that the fate of civilization now rests entirely on our shoulders. Make no mistake that a dangerous and deadly enemy awaits us on the other side of that door.
Scoots – Wilson? …and please don’t call me Irving.
DC – nahhh…I was talking about the SEC but now that you mentioned Wilson first…I,…erh,..I mean, we, the executive authority of this great country have a job for you and only you are capable of handling this.
Scoots – You’re not sending me on to represent Rich again, are you because I caught a lot of shit for that back in 2000 and I’d rathe
DC – This one is a bit easier. The laws you’ll use have never even been challenged in court.
Scoots – That has an odd ring to it. What will the people say if it all comes out? Does it mean you made these laws up?
DC – Well, technically, the people don’t have the stomach for what we have to do. Quite frankly, I reject the premise of your question and I think you or anyone else would be out of line to ask where this law comes from.
Scoots – …and if this all collapses, then what? The Democrats would can us faster than a cling peach.
DC – naww…just tell ‘em I said it was alright to do it.
HotFlash @ 77
I don’t see any way that if the present administration finishes the term, that Vice especially would allow any Democrat to take his place as they are ‘not up to the job’ as he implied in that interview.
Susan in Iowa @
73
I disagree with this. The courts have consistently given a lot of weight to claims of state secrets privilege and executive authority ‘perks’. I think Vice would testify just to get these things on the record. The DoJ has already been public against releasing the visitor logs, for instance.
mandrake @ 25
A cracker is a white racist, no?
I don’t have any point of reference regarding Lindsey Graham’s ethnic and racial attitudes but I’ve watched him on the floor of the Senate, in the judiciary committee and a variety of other forums and I find him to be a wrong-minded enabler of a criminally irresponsible president. He’s wrong on torture, NSA wiretapping, escalation in Iraq, tax breaks for the rich, and federal budget. He’s wrong of social policies too.
If he’s a racist to boot, that’s another good reason to find him objectionable.
jeff @ 91
cracker, from wikipedia. Not necessarily racist.
HotFlash @ 88
Look at what it did for Ollie North and the others…patriots – according to many,… not by me.
Y’all know there is a new thread?
Hi Rayne,
Wondering if you managed to finish your list of links for the trial you were working on?
If not I have a nifty little Notepad for you starting back with looseheadprop’s primers. I may convert it into an HTML page for uploading. I pulled up Marcy’s archives a few minutes ago to pinpoint her extra postings since the trial started to add to the list.
mandrake @
33
Au contraire. I brought this up in an online chat a couple of months ago and people almost skewered me for it. Oddly enough, if I am talking about it in person, the discussion is quite amicable.
The first question I have to ask, once people actually allow themselves to listen, is this:
Who, in their right frigging mind, would want another nation to come in and bomb the bejeepus out of them? More to the point, who would expect those same people to be GRATEFUL for it? Yet, we are expected to swallow it hook, line and sinker?
Talk about lack of reality.
Shez!! You must have caught my vibe, was thinking of you. Have to step out, but I would like to catch up with you, including on the links you have. I’ve got a revision to put up but been so busy on an investigative project that I haven’t gotten to it yet; maybe we can merge what you have with mine. Also need to pick your brains about a training opportunity in MI and about a Native American-related issue. Will look for you in couple of hours via Yahoo IM (4pm MI local time or so).
Muzzy @ 51
And we can also then ask…if it’s “over” then why hasn’t Fitz excused his second Grand Jury?
Why waste their time?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
If I gave you a thoughtful and educated answer, you wouldn’t be able to believe my opinion, would you? After all, I would also be intellectually dishonest – so I’d apparently be lying.
;)
Rayne,
You got it, and indeed I’ve been logged in. I’ll keep working on the list until you get back. Odd, but tribal and Native American-related issues have been on my mind strongly for a few days now so I’m all ears.
I asked Senator Webb to say a few words in his reply to the SOTU about the misery we have visited on the Iraqi people. I do this as often as I can whenever I can because I don’t think the word gets to the Iraqis that some of us are horrified at what has been inflicted on them by our thugs.
They did not invite us in, did not ask for our help, preferred the devil they knew, had no way to oust Saddam just as we cannot/will not oust Bush until his deadly term is over.
Much harm has been done to our country because of the neocons’ perversion, but more horrors have occured in Iraq to their country and their innocent civilians. Why can’t we say it often, and again and again?
As for presidential candidates, this country’s survival depends on getting it right and the election should be entered into with all the seriousness and soul-searching each of us can muster. It’s tempting to throw out witticisms about the candidates, but over time that can prove disastrous. My hope is we can elect someone who will uphold the Constitution while satisfying most of us we have the right person in the Oval Office.
cinnamonape: “And we can also then ask…if it’s “over” then why hasn’t Fitz excused his second Grand Jury?”
A GJ is impanelled to hear evidence in whatever cases are being investigated during the period of its empanelling, not generally for specific cases.
So Fitz hasn’t excused the second GJ because they aren’t there for the Libby case only, but for other ongoing investigations and prosecutors as well.
Redshift @ 58
So, perhaps it’s the war cheerleaders (with their constantly “evolving” theories as to why it was wise to overthrow a sovereign government) who are the intellectually dishonest ones, huh?
No, I must be mistaken. It’s those of us who use facts, reason, historical precidents, and common sense to form opinions.
About Vilsack’s TDS appearance: I must not have been watching closely enough to hear him say that he thinks the Iraqis are not grateful enough for what we’ve done to, ahem, FOR them. I’m repulsed by that argument, which I’ve heard from many-a-neocon, including The Unilateral Decider and his sidekick, DeadEye Cheney. Whenever I discuss the Iraqi quagmire with people who claim the Iraqis who are fighting us are all “terrorists”, I give them this theoretical scenario:
Imagine your modest country was invaded by one of the most powerful militaries in the world. They quickly overthrow your goverment, dismantle the military and fire or arrest the police. Rather than focusing on protecting the people, the occupiers instead let the cities and villages fall into anarchy, focusing their attention on taking control of your country’s riches. Would you just sit back and watch? Wouldn’t you be somewhat upset and concerned for your safety and future?
The occupiers arrest and detain thousands of people, putting some in local prisons to suffer torture and humiliation. Some of your neighbors disappear, and you find out they’ve been sent halfway across the world. Many disappear without a trace.
Wouldn’t you get a gun and try to protect yourself and your family? Wouldn’t you feel somewhat compelled to try and fight for your freedom, to fight for your country, to fight for your survival?
Personally, I have no idea what I would do. It is such an incredible scenario, I can’t imagine it happening to me, in my country, in my city.
I can imagine, however, that if these things happened to me, I would not be “grateful” to the occupiers. I would not feel free to express my anger and my fears, because I wouldn’t be in a democracy, would I? I would be living in fear of the occupying force that is controlling my country and my freedom. That, my friends, is what we’ve brought to Iraq.
How dare anyone say the Iraqis should be grateful.
JGabriel @ 101
I’m curious about this…because I thought that Fitz empanelled the second GJ to deal specifically with the issues relating to his charge in the Washington DC District?
Are you saying that this Grand Jury also has to deal with OTHER CASES brought before it by Prosecutors dealing with everything from Internet Spam and Contractor Embezzlement of Federal Contracts…to Organized Crime and Terrorism? That they have to hear testimony on all of those cases? And keep them straight when there are breaks and intervening testimony in other cases?
For two years?
How much are these people getting paid?
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