It has been quite a week in the Libby trial: testimony from Judy Miller, Matt Cooper and finishing the week with Deborah Bond, one of the lead FBI investigators in this lengthy investigation. One of the more amusing anecdotes to come out of the trial this week was an exchange between Bond and defense counsel, Ted Wells, during cross-examination yesterday. It seems that when Libby was interviewed by the FBI, he played coy with them and refused to tell them his first name without being pressed on it. Here's the liveblogging as Marcy recorded it yesterday:
W Jun 12 2003, Libby had a telephone call during which Cheney disclosed to Libby that Wilson's wife worked in Counter Proliferation. At the very outset of interview, he said to you he had reviewed this exhibit, it had refreshed his recollection, he now recollected that he first learned of Plame from VP.
DB That's what he claimed.
W (mad) That's what he said, that's not what he claimed.
DB He told us that, yes.
W He told us his name was Scooter Libby
DB Yes, it took us a long time to get him to tell us what his first initial stood for.
W He still won't tell me. He also said he was COS to VP.
DB Yes. (emphasis mine)
So, let's see: Libby is being interviewed for a criminal investigation on a national security breach, and he won't play it straight with the FBI about something as simple as his first name. This was deftly done by Bond on cross-examination — because it plants a seed in the jury's mind with a detail that is likely to stick — who in their right mind would go into an interview with the FBI and get cute about their first name? It certainly says a lot about Libby's personality and mindset at the time of the interview and, more importantly, it does raise some questions about his commitment to candor with authorities. As commenter Evil Parallel Universe said yesterday: "He wouldn’t be forthcoming about his given first name, and if he wasn’t forthcoming about that…..it is not difficult to assume that he wasn’t forthcoming about more important facts."
Additionally, during the course of Agent Bond's testimony yesterday, we learned of Libby's version of events for the July 12, 2003, Air Force II flight, on which Libby, Cheney and Cathie Martin discussed how to handle the press inquiries regarding Amb. Wilson. Readers will likely recall that there was a bit of a kabuki dance between Martin and Libby regarding the need for a response to Matt Cooper's inquiries during the flight, that Libby then took the questions to Vice President Cheney, was given specific instructions — handwritten by the Vice President — on how to respond and the marching order that Libby, not his Press Secretary Martin, would place the calls to the media that day. As Fitzgerald summarized this during his opening statement (via my description from day one of the trial):
There was a very interesting new tidbit about the July 12, 2003, flight on Air Force II, on which Scooter Libby and Cathie Martin (Cheney's then press secretary), seated at the back of the plane, discussed some questions that Matt Cooper of Time had for the Vice President about issues of credibility on Iraq. Libby then went to the front of the plane and discussed these issues privately with Cheney, and returned to talk with Cathie Martin with Cheney's handwritten notes on how the Vice President wanted Libby — not Martin — to respond to the press inquiries. That Cheney was directly involved in crafting specific messaging that he then directed his Chief of Staff and National Security Advisor to disseminate to the press is, to say the least, quite unusual and interesting. (And the mechanics in how the discussion occurred are very specific and new details.)
But yesterday, Agent Bond fleshed out another very interesting detail, regarding what Libby had told the FBI during their second interview:
Bond said that during Libby's second FBI interview in his office on Nov. 23, 2003, Libby described flying with Cheney on July 12, 2003, at the height of public controversy over allegations made by Plame Wilson 's husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV .Libby told the FBI he went to the front of the plane to get a statement Cheney wanted released to the press. It denied Wilson's suggestion that Cheney was behind Wilson's trip to Niger in 2002 to investigate a report that Iraq was trying to buy uranium there for nuclear weapons.
Wilson had said on July 6, 2003, that he had debunked the uranium report and that Cheney should have known that long before Bush cited the uranium story in his January 2003 State of Union speech as a justification for war with Iraq.
Bond testified that Libby told the FBI, "There was a discussion whether to report to the press that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA." She added that Libby expressed some doubt.
So, let's see, by my count in testimony and other evidence of which we are aware in the public domain, we have Cheney giving talking points and/or marching orders on the following occasions: (1) To Libby and Martin on Air Force II on July 12, 2003, regarding the response to media inquiries about Wilson, wherein there is discussion about exposing Wilson's wife working for the CIA; (2) On July 7,2003, when Cheney called Martin up to Capitol Hill and dictated notes as to what her media response ought to be and then had her forward those notes to Ari Fleischer; and (3) the infamous Cheney handwritten notes in the margins of the original Wilson op-ed in the NYTimes giving Scooter some marching orders on a Wilson response. And that's just off the top of my head — is it me, or are you seeing a pattern of behavior from Vice President Cheney in having a very strong hand in silencing a critic that, according to Team Libby, was simply "a sliver," according to Ted Wells' opening statement.
That "Libby a firewall for Cheney" theory has a whole lot more bricks in it as of this week, doesn't it? Why do I find the "Wilson story was a sliver" less and less believable the more and more hands-on interest and obsession we hear about Cheney and Libby attaching to the political pushback on the questions about Cheney's credibility?
There were a number of legal arguments to start the day yesterday, most of which dealt with the admissibility or lack thereof of materials that the government had obtained from Libby's office or from other witnesses and/or statements that Libby had made to the grand jury during testimony and other materials. Emptywheel has a summary of what she saw during her liveblogging yesterday, and her concluding paragraph sums up the legal arguments nicely:
Jeffress may well be right that, if this was introduced, "That would be so prejudicial for the defense I don't think we would be able to recover." It would basically show that Libby knew the FBI was already focused on the leaks from early June. Before he met with the FBI and lied his ass off. Which is why, in this case, Fitzgerald is absolutely right that, "They may be prejudicial in that they help us prove our case. But they're not unfairly prejudicial." No wonder Jeffress is desperate to have them excluded.
It is one thing to prevent the admission of unfairly prejudicial information as evidence. But where you have a piece of evidence whose probative value substantially outweighs the prejudicial potential — where the evidence is central to the questions the jury must answer in order to evaluate the case, and not just being thrown into the mix to make the defendant look bad, in other words — the judge must admit that evidence under Rule 403.
The Libby trial will continue on Monday, with Agent Bond still on the stand for the government. She is holding up well thus far under cross-examination, as you would expect from a trained and experienced FBI agent. Having met her while I was in DC covering the trial, she comes across as a no nonsense stickler for the rules, with a dry sense of humor, and I am certain that she enjoyed slipping in the bit about Scooter being less-than-forthcoming about his own first name. Will be interesting to see what more will come out once the government is up again on re-direct, because I just get this feeling that there is so much more that they have…but does it relate to Libby? Or someone else entirely?
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Fitz!
I’m kind of surprised the FBI didn’t already know what the “I” stood for. Hysterically funny that Libby didn’t want to tell them what it represented. Show ‘em a weakness right off the bat, why doncha?
“Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died”L Cohen
well – kazooza then
(polite bow to EPU)
Christy – how forthcoming has he been with his team of defense attorneys?
OT but important: If you have family members in Central Florida, you might try giving them a quick phone call to check on them. Massive storms hit overnight north and east of Tampa. Lake, Volusia, Sumpter and Seminole Counties are the worst hit. Hundreds of homes are destroyed, and there is an estimate of 14 people killed.
I spoke with a family member in Marion County. There were tornadoes in the area, but it appears the damage is not too bad in the Ocala area.
The governor estimates about 20,000 homes are without power, so phone lines are not great (I had no problem calling Ocala for a brief call, but we didn’t want to talk on the phone long, to keep the lines open.
Marcy was great on the Sam Seder Show!!
Or Rufus Wainright’s version
Everybody Knows
Christy! Fitz! Marcy! Jane!
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com
Because when you put a sign on a freeway, people will read it until someone takes it down.
Being interviewed by the FBI can be an intimidating experience, at least for people trying to tell the truth. I was once interviewed with respect to a friend’s employment, and they wanted to know everything back to kindergarten. In detail.
But I guess if you don’t care about the truth, and think your cute little coverup is going to work, then who cares.
JUSTICE!!
Christy -
Please tell us this: what was the surprise to which you alluded in the prior thread and wanted to reveal in this post? I may have inadvertently overlooked something.
Do you suppose that on Monday, Fitz will ask Bond what the “I” stands for, to give the jury a gentle reminder of that exchange?
So how will this go when he’s sworn in as a witness?
I I. Lewis Libby?
harrison
Stephen Parrish, CPA @
4
Excellent question.
And it points to a larger structural issue that has been bugging me through this trial. If a defendant is guilty of a crime and his whole defense depends on successfully lying in court, how does he interact with his defense attorneys? I’m not saying that Libby is necessarily lying. I’m just asking how, structurally, a defense attorney is supposed to get information from his client necessary to defend such client, without becoming part of the lie themselves? Is there an unspoken rule that the defense attorney simply doesn’t ask certain questions of the client? Just curious.
Stephen at 11 — My smart-as link-up of the Cheers theme song. Thought you guys could do with a giggle. *g*
BOO!!!
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Fortunately, the Boston PD has their crack lead investigator on the case.
Christy- great posts. Has anyone at FDL or elsewhere (but I’m loyal to y’all) put together a summary of the trial to date, what’s been established, any big surprises, any complications, implications for Cheney, etc.? I would love that. Thanks so much!
Libby lying? Well he hasn’t testified yet- and may not. It’s possible for him to go through the whole damned trial with a defense of “I forgot” without ever having to say “I forgot”- interesting isn’t it?
If nothing else, this trial has disclosed how wardback and incestuous our nation’s capital has become. It is to the point that the producers of the ‘West Wing’ have decided to revamp the program and call it ‘The Dicks of Hazzard.’
One concern is that it would be terribly unfair and unseemly to compare the current VP with Boss Hogg. So much so that attorneys for Boss Hogg are threatening to sue for defamation of character.
To quote Marcy from her video I just watched from last night,
“This is news because right now it’s a smoking gun,once again,in Vice President Cheney’s hands.”
Knock,knock,knocking on Deadeye’s door.
Oh, yeah,baby,we be looking at you,DICK.
Thanks for pulling all of these strands together, Christy. I don’t often cite David Ignatius, but I guess it’s news when even he can read the tea leaves. Here is his WaPo op-ed today titled “A Failed Cover-Up: What the Libby Trial is Revealing:”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..84_pf.html
–
*xyz — As defense counsel, you cannot put your client on the stand knowing that he will commit perjury and lie. Some defesne counsel like to know everything — including he ultimate questions of culpibility — in order to adequately defend their clients and to evaluate the best course of action in a case. Some defense counsel are adament that their clients not tell them anything with regard to the issue of ultimate guilt or innocence, so that they are free to defend strategically without having to keep their client off the stand during trial. It’s a personal choice on defense counsel’s part. But the rules are very frim that you are NOT allowed to put your client on the stand if you know that he intends to lie to the court and the jury.
LBrowne @
1
All Federal investigators — including background investigations — start off with the review of given names and any known aliases when interviewing a subject, in my experience. And you know, if you have a given name that you may not use, to explain this immediately.
I’m glad the prosecution is presenting this type of testimony to the jury. It shows that throughout the investigation, Libby et. al. have been imperious and less than forthcoming with delivering requested information.
Go Fitz!
Could you explain what prejudicial information is. How does one determine if something is prejudicial and therefore not permitted as evidence?
rwcole @ 18
Didn’t the judge say it’d be suicide for Scooter to not testify, given the basis of his defense?
_
I just don’t understand how anyone can argue that GJ testimony from Libby shouldn’t be introduced. Of course that is the defense’s job, but it still doesn’t make sense – it’s what the guy answered – it came out of his mouth!!
There are a lot more bricks for sure.
Libby is claiming that he forgot Cheney told him. And that reporters all are telling him about Plame and are also telling him that all reporters know about Plame’s CIA affiliation. So what does Libby then discuss with Cheney?
Whether they should leak Plame’s CIA affiliation to reporters.
DING!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 15
oohhhh….. as dozens of firedoggies’ ears go limp, and they skulk back to their doghouses. I was hoping for something like a juicy t-bone.
Never mind. Great job, Christy. How are Fiona’s typing lessons going?
Former Fed @ 25
And consequently “prejudicial.”
LOL!
So, where do we see the information revealed in this trial leading us in the future?
I’m trying to not jump to conclusions, but it seems to me that the Prosecution has a very good chance of proving their case. Although the defense has not yet presented their witnesses, it seems there is a lot of evidence that Scooter lied under oath repeatedly. It didn’t seem to me that the defense was effective in impeaching any of the prosecution witnesses.
So, let’s say that Walton allows a fair amount of the “prejudicial” evidence to be presented, which further supports the prosecution’s case. This, along with other information about Cheney, seems to indicate there was a program in place, directed by Cheney, to leak this information about Plame to reporters, and a coordinated coverup (not sure if it was led by Cheney, Libby, Rove, or if it was an “every man for himself” coverup operation). What other charges are warranted? I’m still unclear on whether there is enough proof that Plame’s identity as a covert operative was intentionally released, or if there is not enough evidence to prove they intentionally revealed her status. Anyone wanna take a stab at that?
EPU’d and OT, but still important: Re:Impeachment. I don’t know if this has been mentioned previously, but last week in our humble state of New Mexico, two state senators introduced a bill to impeach Bush and Cheney (as has been done in 4 or 5 other states). If you are in NM or simply want info about this or wish to offer support, afterdowningstreet has a great page dedicated to it (if this actually comes up as a link, it is thanks to peterr….I think…? If it doesn’t, then it is all MY fault…!) http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/nm
Christy Hardin Smith @ 22
It’s almost beginninng to seem Scooter is pathological. I guess we won’t be seeing him on the stand then?
“Bond testified that Libby told the FBI, “There was a discussion whether to report to the press that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA.” She added that Libby expressed some doubt.”
A question. I think it’s been estalished, but I can’t remember when Libby was informed about Plame’s CPD status. If neither Cheney nor Libby knew about that at the time of this conversation, although odious, the legal ramafications are less severe. If however, either or both knew that Plame was CPD (and therefore undercover), this Cheney/Libby discussion was a contemplation of Treason.
Why was this not pursued further, because it’s not only relevant to whether Cheney/Libby committed treason, but it’s also relevant to the case at hand? How could Libby “forget” that he discussed committing Treason????
I had a great laugh on Wednesday. I was reading the liveblogging, and the doorbell rang. It was a govt investigator, doing a background check on a former neighbor who had moved away several years ago.
After the first few questions, I had this huge deja vu moment. “When did you first meet Mr. Neighbor? . . . How well did you know him? . . . Did he talk about his work much? . . . What was his family life like? . . . Did he travel much? . . . Where? When? . . . ” My answers sounded a lot like some of the stuff we’ve heard at the trial: “Gosh, that was a long time ago . . . I was working on this really important project essential to world peace (OK, it was my dissertation, but finishing was essential to MY world’s peace), and so my recollection of other things is not the best . . . I’d have to check my calendars to see about certain dates . . .” The guy was not a tall man in a rumpled suit, but I couldn’t help but laugh.
I apologized for laughing, and explained I was on the computer following the testimony in the Scooter Libby trial on the internet, and the questions he was asking me as well as my answers sounded somewhat familiar.
Then *he* started to laugh, a lot harder than I had been. “I can’t promise you won’t be subpeonaed,” he said, waving his notebook.
We finished the interview, and for the record: I hope my old neighbor gets the job he’s looking for.
robin andrea at 24 — Prejudicial information would be evidence that was only tangentially related to the charges — so not really all that relevant, and not so much presented for any evidentiary purpose other than to raise doubts about the person on trial. When you evaluate evidence under Rule 40, you have to do a balancing test that weighs how much the information might prejudice the jury unfairly against the defendant (If at all — sometimes you may argue prejudice as an effort to sway the judge from admitting an otherwise permissible piece of evidence because it does make your client look bad…because he or she OUGHT to look bad.) When you are talking about the probabtive value, it relates to how integral the questions raised by the evidence are to the elements of the trial — in this case, the motive and intent of Libby, what he was focused on when he was allegedly lying to the FBI and the G/J, what he was worried about, etc.
I’m with you sonate at 33.
Thanks again to everyone who is making this happen.
I’m pulling the IV now. Til later.
Free Scooter Libby!
Thursday, Feb. 01, 2007 By MICHAEL KINSLEY
http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..99,00.html
Christy…. Thank you for the post… will read it later…. off to my next conference call!
EPU’d
A couple of days ago, in discussing the Libby letter, I noted (with others) that that Aspen may have referenced the Aspen Institute in Colorado, whose Middle East Strategy Group met August 2-7, 2003. Judy met Libby (in cowboy hat) around this time in Colorado, and probably both were at this meeting – at least Judy was. Libby’s comment the “Aspens are turning” I suggested, may have been a reference to people on this supposedly bi-partisan group who were turning away from the neo-con agenda on the war, which until then, they seem to have supported. In short I was seeking to buttress the idea that in the case of Judy and Libby, Wolfowitz, Perle, Kissinger, and many others – the war was always about ideology. There is more to support this too.
Members of the Middle East group are listed on the Aspen web site: http://www.aspeninstitute.org/…..embers.htm
Chairs are Kissinger, Albright, Feinstein, and Hagel.
In 2003 a key focus was Iran. The August 2003 meeting topic indeed was “In Search of an American Grand Strategy for the Middle East” – see:
http://www.aspeninstitute.org/…..y_Date.htm
The paper itself is here: http://www.aspeninstitute.org/atf/cf/{DEB6F227-659B-4EC8-8F84-8DF23CA704F5}/ASPEN_GRANDSTRATEGY1.PDF
This paper is a MUST READ for all Fdl’ers and others. Basically everything is laid out in it in this whole sordid mess.
Judith Miller and Fareed Zakaria are listed among the Aspen Institute – Middle East Policy members – as is magazine billionaire Mortimer Zuckerman (so the aim was to get the press involved from the outset). That Jane Harman (and Sidney Harmon)as well as Diane Feinstein are on this group (means the aim also was to rope in key Dems – who could support their agenda).
When you realize that now BOTH Brownback and Hagel who were central figures here oppose the war with vehemence, you see how much the Aspens HAVE turned. I wonder if their being “taken in” within the forest of Aspens is part of their anger.
My hunch is that for Libby (and Cheney and Rove and Bush) there was no thought that one of their own (including Miller) would ever turn (as in turn on them in court). Their real fear was that others they relied on would turn on them in support of the American war agenda in the Middle East. And that is exactly what happened. No wonder Pelosi was pissed at Harman.
Interestingly the Aspen Institute also is sponsoring something called CALME (Campaign for American Leadersip in the Middle East) and also have on board an Israeli and Palestinian business man. The site mentions that things are especially urgent now in light of the Hamas election in Israel: http://www.aspeninstitute.org/…..Group.htm.
They have a petition you can sign along with a list of some usually quite thoughtful people, such as Ariana Huffington. She and others seem to have been scammed by this. While all of us would love to have peace in the middle east, this thing seems to be a bit of sweet exterior icing on a nasty yellow cake.
> I just don’t understand how anyone can argue
> that GJ testimony from Libby shouldn’t be
> what the guy answered – it came out of his
> mouth!!
I would be curious to see Jeralyn’s response to this. But as a Citizen, this is what I would say: there is a tremendous imbalance of power in the grand jury process. The prosecutor meets with the GJ in secret to present his argument, then again in secret presents his witnesses in the order he prefers and controls the vast majority of questions and evidence [1]. Finally the “suspect” is brought in, in secret, without benefit of counsel, his own witnesses, or cross-examination, and is told he must answer every question asked under penalty of perjury. And again, the prosecutor controls the flow of questions.
You are assuming, as many here are, that this process is _only_ used against Bad Guys and will never be used against, say, you, for some imagined offense or for your political activities. IMHO that is a foolish assumption.
Cranky
[1] Yes, every once in a while you hear about a GJ that jumps in its cars and drives out to a crime scene to poke around. Even in those rare cases the prosecutor still has teams of full-time investigators working for him – the GH and accused don’t.
With respect to Libby’s fatuous demeanor in the first FBI interview, keep in mind that at the time there was no special prosecutor, and Ashcroft was heading Justice. Libby probably assumed he could get a way with being flippant, since as far as he was aware, there was no way Ashcroft would let the investigation go so far as an indictment, much less a conviction. Also, for the same reasons, Libby thought he could play fast and loose with the truth.
Best part of the Time article is this:
But when journalists are threatened, the voices of journalism make no such distinction between good leaks and bad ones. If they did, this one would certainly qualify as a bad leak. The secret it revealed, a U.S. intelligence officer’s identity, should have stayed secret. Nor did anyone ever suggest that New York Times reporter Judy Miller should not qualify for protection because she never used the stuff Scooter leaked to her.
sonate @ #33,
How could Libby “forget” that he discussed committing Treason????
I presume that by showing up for work at Deadeye Darth’s office, day after day, he crossed that bridge long ago. If I have to live to be 100 to see the contents of the Cheney-energy company meetings, I’ll do it.
OT – this might have posted already, but if it has, it bears repeating.
A beautiful eulogy to Molly by Maya Angelou in this days WaPo:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01909.html
On my 39 above. Sam Brownback was also part of the Aspen Institute group. I took out my list of various members to shorten it (and because I linked to it, so you can get the names), but my comments make more sense with Brownback in the Aspen group mix.
sonate @ 33: my guess is that they didn’t have enough evidence (yet?) to prove conclusively that Libby knew that when he revealed information about Plame and her employer, he knew she was a covert agent, and he was therefore committing treason.
My question is, as a result of this trial, are they able to gather more evidence to support this theory? Or, is it just that we’re seeing that Libby (and perhaps others) were negligent in checking out the actual status of Plame before discussing her? My understanding is that treason requires that the person knowingly intends to reveal the classified info. So, there needs to be proof that Scooter knew she was covert when he revealed her status. If he was told “she works for the CIA” but can reasonably claim he didn’t realize that means she was covert, the government may not be able to prove a case based on intent. My understanding is that being ignorant doesn’t meet the burden of proof.
It seems this trial is likely to prove that he was aware she worked for CPD, and he knew CPD officials were often covert, then the government may have a case.
I wonder if Cheney will testify, and if he does, what he will reveal on crossexamination.
LBrowne @ 1
Nothing like pissing off an FBI Agent over something as incredibly simple and basic as “What is your name”. Also demonstrates a high level of contempt for the investigative process by Libby. To say nothing about Libby painting HIMSELF as a lying sack of shit – hell, he can’t even be truthful about his fucking name. To say nothing of covering up the truth and protecting Darth Vader himself. Lies, lies, lies. Does it ever stop????? Good for Agent Bond! (Anyone else noticing that the “chicks” are really tearing up this case?! Bond, emptywheel, CHS, etc.! Add in Pelosi and Boxes…we may have a new “paradigm” in DC politics — “Chicks Rule!” Works for me!) (NOTE: gawd, I hate that word “paradigm”!)
Web sites on both sides of the ideological divide provide moment-by-moment transcripts of the courtroom proceedings, and other sites give moment-by-moment analysis.
Reading these sites every day has a vertigo-inducing effect that probably resembles the suffering of those who have bipolar disorder.
Yesterday, the anti-Libby partisans were thrilled with the first bit of testimony by an FBI agent who interviewed Libby in 2003. “I’m reading and I’m not quite believing it,” said one poster at the Fire Dog Lake site, “but yes, it does seem like Scooter is toast.” Then Libby’s lawyers rose to interview the agent – and the pro-Libby folks instantly rose from the depths of despair to the unshakable sense that their man would be acquitted.
It would be impossible in fewer than a thousand words to explain how Libby’s lawyers made FBI interviewer Deborah Bond look bad, but they did.
And since she was the final witness of the week in the Libby case, one poster at the Just One Minute site crowed: “The jury leaves with the taste and smell of burned Feeb.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02…..horetz.htm
How can this get more TV time?
It’s a producer’s dream:
Oil money
Nuclear annihilation
Sensitive insider/tool
Tarty reporter/tool
Supreme evil
Everyman hero
come on people! I’m giving it up for free!
Richmond @ 39
I couldn’t get the link to work so I created this shorter version
http://tinyurl.com/2gvvxx
LandOfTheFree @ 46
That is one of the burdens of proof for the IIPA.
Now, consider what Libby did in light of the prosecutions under the Espionage Act of Larry Franklin….
Not trying to defend the guy, but if you’re name was Irving, how forthcoming would you be? (Sorry to any Irvings out there.)
Sing it, everyone!
Makin’ your way with George Bush today
Takes everythin’ you got.
Makin’ up lies to torture folks
You’ve thrown in cells to rot.
But sooner or later you must pay –
This time you’re gonna go
And pay the price for all your shame
‘Cuz you lied ’bout outing Plame
You’re gonna pay for all your sins
Karma’s done kicked you in the shins
You’re gonna pay the price for outing Valerie Plame.
Here’s one from NPR:
Bloggers Join Frenzy at Media-Saturated Libby Trial
by Thomas Pierce
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..Id=7115671
I’m not sure if it is part of your list but the day after Cheney and Libby were told about Valerie Plame’s connection to the CIA, Cheney had gotten in touch with someone (Tenant?) at the CIA and was able to fill Scooter in on exactly where she worked.
Richmond @ 45
I missed the contents of your #39 when you first posted it. Very interesting. You really think Huffington was bamboozled and unwittingly attended? I remember reading her article about it when she showed pictures of herself with Miller, and it struck me that she suspected the conference’s real agenda ahead of time, but couldn’t keep herself away for one reason or another.
Way OT, but this caught my eye just now. A stockholder complaint about the management of the NT Times has led Sulzberger Jr. to pull his money from Morgan Stanley, where the complaining fellow works. Same sort of complaint that led to Knight-Ridder breakup. The Times is insulated from shareholder action because the family owns most of the voting shares.
Sulzberger is, of course this fellow:
Thanks brownandserve. Much appreciated! Curious what others are thinking about this Aspen issue. The mix of names is interesting too.
Richmond @39
I still can’t interpret “Aspens turning” as neocon support flagging. I think Libby was a smug little %*&#, and felt common “roots” would make neocons stick together.
So, is the press downplaying the reports of two Iraqi generals alleged in involvment in the US troop abduction/killing in Karbala because the brilliant Petraeus strategy has US troops embedded with Iraqi troops under the leadership of Iraqi generals?
Oh yeah, looks like another helicopter down.
I gotta wonder if the Russians are quietly smiling about this development.
-GSD
So…. what does the ‘I’ stand for?
Cranky @ 40
I have testified before several GJs and the process is basically as you described.
However, I have never lied to a GJ and and you can always answer with the “I can’t remember” line.
Still don’t understand why it is not admissible – my testimony sure was.
I wonder how much perjury Judith Miller just did a few days ago.
raven @ 2
I’ve been listening to this song for the last two weeks…in awe at how prescient L. Cohen was when he came out with this in the mid-80s. He nailed the Chimp and his thugs. How apropos.
Solai @ 61
Irving
‘morning Lakers.
Has this already been discussed?
It’s the Cheney note that was introduced on Tues…
Has to happen today.
Call out to key press saying same thing about Scooter as Karl.
Drum and others are speculating that the reason Fitz didn’t issue any indictments under the Espionage Act (or IIPA) is that the ultimate leaker is the Dim Son.
BC
So if Cheney went to the CIA specifically to seek information about Valerie Wilson, is there any way that they would *not* have told him about her classified status?
Ed*ard Teller @ 56
I can’t speak for Ariana. And that wasn’t my point here really. I think lots of people would like sanity in the Middle East. What better avenue that a bi-partisan, Israeli and Palestinian one. But, I think that the August 2003 paper on an American Grand Scheme in the Middle East, Miller’s (Zuckerman and Zakaria’s) presence on this group – w. key Dem & Rep pols speaks volumes. As do the contents of the paper itself.
Also for this crew the End result (American control of Iraq & Iran) was/is the only thing that mattered (not the means – stealing elections, lieing to FBI agents, outing CIA operatives).
sonate @ 33
Apparently, Libby et al, don’t consider committing Treason to be a big deal.
Think about that for awhile. I mean…REALLY think about that. Then step back and look at the big picture, with their treasonous attitude in mind. Frightening. Just fuckin frightening.
I have to say it’s illuminating to observe the similarity between the Bush Administration’s unwillingness to back up one centimeter in light of its malfeasance and nefarious actions exposed, and the MSM’s unwilligness to cover it. In fact, it seems to me that CPB and CNN are deafer and dumber now than they had been the last year or so, in defiance of the recent elections. CPB broadcast a paean to Kenneth Tomlinson the other day; The News Hour has morphed into the mildest of cheap soap. And when discussing military issues and war strategy, CNN now only interviews Republican Senators and Lieberman. Democratic Senators are reserved for reports of party infighting over 2008 elections.
I guess their superiors have shown them the way to market the whole mess. I know this is nothing new, but sheesh…they refuse to back down in licking the toes of Neocons, no matter how much their complicity is otherwise belching forth.
CHS – It’s been awhile since I made the front page. FWIW, I think the most interesting question and answer concerning Miller was the jury question asked by Walton as to how many notebooks were under her desk, and she said 15-20. Smart question by the jury, and it answers any question in their minds as to why she “forgot;” she had a lot of “reporting” going on and a lot of notes, which goes to the “important” memory point of the other day (Notta Flatlander’s point too). Unlike how they will view the “memory” loss with respect to Scooter, since it has been shown, as you point out, that the Wilson’s were front and center in the VP’s office and they’re black hearts.
And a grammatical note:
“….liveblogging yesterday, and her
conclusoryconcluding paragraph……”mui @ 59
My sense is that – as with outing Plame – there are many things at play at once (putting down Joe, getting rid of the group who could point to the admin lies) there is alot more going on here than meets the eye.
LandOfTheFree @ 46
If Cheney testifies, can he get away with saying “I don’t accept the premise of your question” and “I think you’re out of line with that question”?
Phoenix Woman @ 53
Scene opens in a dusky bar in Georgetown peopled by Washington insiders, media hacks, including Fox News Steve Doocy who is feeding a soft banana to a chimp in a top-hat, Bush cultists, military brass, CIA spooks and a very randy congresswoman looking for George W. Bush…
The bar door opens, all heads turn as a dumpy, balding and bespectacled figure with a trademark sneer works his way towards the bar.
In unison the bars patrons shout out: “DICK!”
-GSD
mui @ 63
Potentially, not that much, since her memory was so bad that it was a wonder she remembered her own name. Luckily, it was written down somewhere.
clueless @ 47
I can feel the agent’s pain. Bond is a women? O.K. well if I thought Scooter was trying to flirt or be cute, during an interview, I’d be really pissed. I’ve noticed that sh*t can be really trying to female cops and there’s always reason to suspect there’s a lack of respect.
So who looks worse, Judy Miller who couldn’t remember a shopping list consisting of milk, eggs and butter or the NYTimes that hired her for her reporting skills?
-GSD
Hugh @ 75
So that’s why she thought her name was Victoria Secret!
BC
Richmond @ 58
Richmond, have you gone back into the FDL archives of the period of time when we first heard about that letter to Judy? I recall we dug up lots of dirt about the Aspen Institute and the main members, there would be a wealth of links in the comments on our research. I still feel the ‘clusters’ in the love letter to Judy pertained to cluster bombs
and arms shipments.Good heavens, the footage from Florida is horrific. Hope anyone who has a friend or relative in the areas hit by these tornadoes gets some good news about their safety today. What a mess…
Mack @ 65
Ingrate.
-GSD
GSD @ 77
And the NYT was completely behind her writing her pieces (pushing aside any established editorial oversight that might cast doubts) to hurry the US into war with Iraq.
Breaking the Code
The Libby Letter to Miller, Sep. 15th, 2005:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/011845.php
In the letter, Libby tells Miller –
1) Fitzgerald has identified every reporter he had spoken to in JULY, including Miller
—–> Don’t talk about the June 23rd meeting
—–> Libby’s ‘story’ is that he first met Miller on this issue in July
2) That Libby did not discuss Plame’s name or identity with any other reporters
—–> Don’t say that Libby discussed Plame’s name or identity
—–> Libby thinks he’s facing an IIPA Felony charge for leaking Valerie’s covert CIA identity
3) Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work – and life.
—–> Stay on the team! Don’t talk about the ‘second’ stream (Mystery Source!) of Intel (the ‘Aspen Cluster’)
—–> Negotiate with Fitz a narrow scope of testimony limited to Libby as a Source
Solai @
61
Irving.
Ya know, I have a first name I can’t stand too. I’ve had a nickname since junior high school, which is what I use still. What’s the big deal?
And what grown man goes around by the name ‘Scooter?’ It’s cute when you’re 2 or maybe even 6, but I’m sorry it’s too, too much…. Lewis.
Shez @ 79
You are right Shez, I haven’t done that (go back to FDL archives). I bet there is alot there. Interesting on “clusters.”
rizbiz @ 49
If only we knew a television producer……………….
clueless @ 86
free and balanced, free and balanced, free and balanced, f&b f&b f&b f&b, fb fb fb fb ffffffbbbbbbfffffffbbbbbbbbffffffffbbbb fb
Just heard Dennis Kucinich on CSPAN, and now Hillary is up. Dennis outshone her – easily.
Shez @ 79
Judy was particularly interested in germ warfare, was she not? And “…come back to work — and life.” Hell, if I got that I’d take it as a death threat. Or the cancellation of a death threat. Maybe Judy went to jail to be safe, a self-imposed protective custody?
John LeCarre may write fiction, but he’s not making it up.
Solai @ 61
IMPEACH!
Tithonia @ 67
Pathetic to quote my own question, but:
And if there were such a meeting with the CIA wouldn’t there be a record of the date and what exactly was discussed; in other words, wouldn’t it be provable in court what Cheney did or not know about her classified status, and when?
Wordsmith @ 84
If he garners any jail time, I have a feeling he’ll be dropping the nickname in a NY minute.
Tithonia @ 91
Yes but you & I &Fitz can’t see it.
GSD @ 74
On Wednesday, Larry Johnson gave a shout-out to some folks with an updated Beach Boys’ hit that Bush may be singing in the White House:
Bomb Bomb Bomb
Bomb Bomb Iran . . .
Tithonia @
67
How many people outside the CIA normally have access to any information listing the names of CIA agents with covert status?
OT Chuck Schumer was on Charlie Rose last night flogging his new book (which probably explains why he has missed the last few votes in the Senate). It’s all about Mr. and Mrs. Average Joe American. It seems that they have the political consciousness of congealed grease. They sort of kind of have some non-specific concerns about how the country is going but nothing major, nothing like the worst President in our history.
I couldn’t force myself to watch all of it but Schumer is a reminder that it is not just Republicans who are dragging the country down. It’s people like Schumer who, despite being wrong about virtually everything, continue to be the go to commentators for the mainstream media about what is “really” going on in the country.
Unfortunately behind the NYT firewall, but a great op-ed, “Missing Molly Ivins” from Paul Krugman today:
http://select.nytimes.com/2007…..an.html?hp
Richmond — think your general premise about the importance of the Apsen Institute and the Apsen Strategy Group is correct; there were a number of us who’d speculated the same thing back when Scooter’s Aspen Letter was first made public. The folks who frequent these two groups are very much an overlap of the PNAC, and a number of centrist Dems. (Karl Rove had been a speaker at one of the Aspen Institute’s events; I just couldn’t find enough information to suggest he’d met key folks there at the right time to validate my suspicions about a pointed event for collusion).
But I’m with mui, too; I do think that Libby had been counting on the PNAC members and supporters to stick to their guns and circle the wagons. With Francis Fukuyama jumping off, though, fairly early in the war, it’s clear the roots they shared were not enough.
As I am so often reminded in business, it’s all about execution. Had the war gone as they billed it, because they actually did all the work required to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis inside the first 6-9 months of the war, we probably wouldn’t be having this exchange, oui?
Hugh — I think Judy counts on getting reminded frequently on the stand on a regular basis as to what her name is.
Note to noone in particular — jeepers, two visits to my site from DoJ yesterday. Gives me the willies…
Richmond @ 93:
Would it not be within the scope of the original leak investigation?
Tithonia, I feel that the neocons and Cheney have known exactly who Valerie was and what she did FOR YEARS. They’ve had the whole damn keyring to everything for far too long. They had to disable Brewster Jennings, period, any way possible.
Why couldn’t Bond have recorded the interviews with Libby? Is there a restriction on that? Relying on written notes alone seems odd.
Everybody seems to wonder
What it’s like down here
I gotta get away from this day-to-day running around,
Everybody knows this is nowhere.
Everybody, everybody knows
Everybody knows.
(Neil Young)
I think Cheney SHOULD say these things. In fact, I ENCOURAGE him to say this stuff. If at all possible, I would like to sit on the floor right behind the witness stand and continually poke him with a stick to ensure he says these things.
Wonder how Fitz would handle this situation in court?
LandOfTheFree @ 46
radiofreewill — sorry, dear, but I refuse to give powerline any traffic. Do you have another source besides powerline?
Hugh — OT as well; you did see that bit where Schumer wants employment ID cards with retinal scanning? What, blue-ink ID numbers tatooed on our forearms won’t work, I wonder?
They are just checking to make sure their notes are correct!
Hugh @ 96
He was also on ‘The Colbert Report’ just caught the tail end of that. I’m along the same line as you. To me, it’s more dastardly when you’re “with us” and you’re our public face, and doing nothing (really) to uphold our country.
Oh, hell….Hillary is getting much more noise than Dennis.
Rayne @ 98
Rayne, your site is a great Fitz cheat-sheet, why wouldn’t they want to have a look? I’ll bet USA’s from all over are watching this one. Also, IIRC, looseheadprop is DoJ?
IRVING !
The GSD Casting Agency has been searching furiously for a lead actor to play I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby in the upcoming tv drama As the Aspens Turn.
Here’s one top tier candidate.
-GSD
oh yea
punaise @
102
Rayne, I was checking out your updated list early this morning,
wee hoursit’s looking great! Outstanding job on what you’ve put together already.GSD @ 109
I must now clean my keyboard, as soon as the shock wears off. GSD, that one shoulda come with a warning.
THe GSD Casting Agency proudly presents candidate number two in the lead role as Scooter Libby.
Dick’s Number Two?
-GSD
robin andrea at 24 — Smith at 35’s answer was good but still a little theoretical. Take this example from the Libby trial — Libby’s note in which he wrote down “Wilson is a snake” (or something like that) which allegedly was his recording a comment by Matalin. Or was it? The conversation with Matalin and the note has some relevance to the case, but the phrase “Wilson is a snake” on Libby’s note is inflammatory, plus it is uncertain whether this is Libby’s own thoughts or his recording of Matalin’s thoughts. Should this be let in without very clear evidence that it was Libby’s own thoughts? Should the judge permit more evidence to try to show it was Libby’s own thought? (Such as having Matalin testify on this point?) I guarantee you that Fitz would be pushing for this if he thought he had clear evidence to link the note to Libby’s own thoughts (i.e., Matalin said it as part of an agreement with Libby bringing up the comment).
What makes it prejudicial is that the jury is going to be emotionally influenced by it, and how is it fair as part of the case? If it was clear that Libby was recording his own subjective feelings, it would come in because it would be strong evidence of motive. If it’s not clear, should it be allowed in at all?
The uncertainty as to whose intent is shown by the note and the sideshow such evidence generates is why the judge may exclude it as “prejudicial impact outweighs probative value.”
Another example from the trial are the newspaper articles found in Libby’s desk which talk about the criminal investigation — even though the jury is told not to be influenced by the articles as fact (they are relevant to his state of mind to then lie), they are prejudicial because jurors are going to read them and to some degree think of them as fact. I think they are in because they have been linked to Libby pretty clearly and are strong evidence of why he would have a concern to lie. Probative value outweighs prejudicial impact.
BobbyG @ 25
I’m starting to think that Libby never intended to testify, which is why Wells led off his opening statement with the line, “My name is Ted Wells, and I speak for Scooter Libby!“
Since the “faulty memory” defense is completely inconsistent with the “being scapegoated” defense, I’m thinking that the Libby team has been faking the memory defense all along, and only sprung the “being scapegoated” defense at the last minute, so that Fitz wouldn’t be as prepared to counter it!
Fitz has pretty much wiped out the memory defense already, and I have to think that the Libby team expected as much. Their only hope was to come up with a defense so unexpected (ie: something not in the GJ testimony) that the government’s case would leave room for reasonable doubt, even without Libby’s testimony!
Christy @ 80: yes, I hope people get good news about their relatives like I did. I can’t believe the devastation within 20 miles of my mom’s home – towns nearly flattened. My mom’s best friend has family in the most devastated area, and they have no way to reach him to see if everyone is okay.
Apparently, many of the towns there do not have tornado sirens. WTF?
Also, many people have propane tanks in the area, and apparently some are damaged and leaking. This is a pretty horrific storm.
Rayne @ 104
Schumer is awful. I started to dutifully watch Meet the Press (last Sunday?). At any rate, Schumer started saying Dems had no platform, blah, blah, blah. Unbearable, so I had to turn it off. What he’s really saying is the Dems don’t have a platform that *he* likes.
a firewall made of “splinters” is combustible
Christy – Anyway to break the he said/he said between Ari and Dickerson? There were 2 other people with them when Ari claims he said Wilson’s wife sent Wilson. Hopefully, David Gregory and Tamara Lippert both will support Ari’s contention.
Ann Coulter puts it all in perspective for us…
robin andrea @ 24
If they wanted to intorduce evidence that Libby beats his wife, tortures kittens and doesn’t pay his taxes, that would be prejudicial in that it would tend to make the jury dislike Libby, but it would not eb relevant to the crimes charged in this case.
So regardless of whether or not it was true (and I made up those examples, I have no reson to believe they are true)the evidence would not go in.
Rayne @ 98
Scary on the site visits! On the Aspens, I wasn’t claiming that link per se was new. And there is definitely the PNAC issue. But when he writes the “Aspens are turning” my hunch is that he was especially referencing the “bi-partisan” group of the Aspen Institute. The political will of the country was turning, and that was a threat to their ability to move forward.
By the way, how in hell do we stop Hillary – with her pro-Iran war lingo?
seenos @ 115
Well, “being scapegoated” has been quickly blown out of the water as well. Dude got no game. Guilty.
harrison @
13
I I., Captain.
Bush and Blair. A couple of crooks and liars if ever there was. Oh the arrogance and petulance of these two men.
LONDON, England (CNN) — British Prime Minister Tony Blair has refused to step down before police finish a political corruption probe into his party, despite fears the investigation is damaging his party.
“You’ll have to put up with me for a bit longer,” Blair said in a BBC Radio interview broadcast Friday.
Blair’s comments came after it was revealed police questioned him last week in connection with allegations that his ruling Labour Party promised honors — including seats in the upper House of Lords and knighthoods — in return for loans to help a 2005 general election campaign.
The prime minister, who has also come under heavy criticism for his support of military action in Iraq, brushed off claims that voters now saw him as fundamentally dishonest.
“I’m not going to beg for my character in front of anyone. I am not going to get into the situation where I am pleading for my integrity, not even in front of the British people.”
Tithonia @ 91
I have a feeling what Cheney & Libby will try to argue is that Cheney knew Plame was covert, Cheney assumed Libby understood she was covert, and he claims he didn’t realize she was covert. Cheney claims he didn’t know Scooter was telling people that “the wife” was directly involved. Therefore, no one intentionally revealed a covert agent.
If there is nothing in writing and no present witnesses who will “flip” against Cheney/Libby to prove knowledge that a covert agent’s ID is being revealed, Cheney is okay and Scooter is okay regarding knowingly outing an agent.
(take into account that I’m not a lawyer or a government security specialist. This is just the line of reasoning that seems logical to me.)
Rayne, you’re missing
Jeffress. Lawyer, Team Libby.
If my first name were Irving, I wouldn’t want to admit to it either.
GSD @ 109, 113: those should have come with puke warnings! I’m nauseous. Now I’ll have to postpone lunch.
mui @ 76
and there’s always reason to suspect there’s a lack of respect.
and not just from the perps. When I worked in public safety my three best bosses were women who found promotions far harder to come by than for less qualified men, one of whom was a lot bigger jerk than the “Scooter.” But at least this guy wasn’t a f*cking traitor.
Rayne #98,
What gets me about Francis Fukuyama is that he talks about neocons now like he was never one of them and that he never championed the Iraq invasion. He talks about neocon miscalculations in Iraq but not how he bought into those miscalculations (at least until they started going bad). It’s nice that he now espouses a measured approach to Iran but then so do most of us here. And that is perhaps the problem, that what we take to be ordinary common sense is taken as special insight when applied to the likes of Francis Fukuyama.
mui @ 117
The R’s have been hijacked. And hello, the Dems have been hijacked. Why is this concept so difficult to grasp? And if we rely on current Dem ‘leadership’ we will continue to see the DCCC’s approach of targetted softball candidates in unimportant districts, non-binding resolutions a la Biden, and general shucking and jiving until the 2008 elections, at which point the voting machines will return control to the R’s.
Blue Dido @
128
I better not post the pictures of Mason Reese on steroids then.
-GSD
editing my #126:
have a feeling what Cheney & Libby will try to argue is that Cheney knew Plame was covert, Cheney assumed Libby understood she was covert, and he (Libby) claims he didn’t realize she was covert. Cheney claims he didn’t know Scooter was telling people that “the wife” was directly involved. Therefore, no one intentionally revealed a covert agent.
If there is nothing in writing and no present witnesses who will “flip” against Cheney/Libby to prove knowledge that a covert agent’s ID is being revealed, Cheney is okay and Scooter is okay regarding knowingly outing an agent.
(take into account that I’m not a lawyer or a government security specialist. This is just the line of reasoning that seems logical to me.)
p.s. why does “edit comment” just create a new response?
Fitzmas above sketches a really scary scenario:
The idea of a part of my body that I kinda like anywhere near the foul mouth of Mann Coulter makes me shiver.
seenos @ 115
I’m starting to think that Libby never intended to testify, which is why Wells led off his opening statement with the line, “My name is Ted Wells, and I speak for Scooter Libby!“
Fitz has pretty much wiped out the memory defense already, and I have to think that the Libby team expected as much. Their only hope was to come up with a defense so unexpected (ie: something not in the GJ testimony) that the government’s case would leave room for reasonable doubt, even without Libby’s testimony!
IANAL, but when did, “I’m being made a scapegoat!” become a legal defense for perjury and obstruction of justice charges?
On a different topic, Mrs BC and I were talking about the trial, and where it’s headed. She’s convinced that Scooter’s not going to serve a day, because he’ll stay out the slam on appeal, and sometime around midnight of January 19, 2009 the Dim Son will issue a paper blizzard of pardons.
I’m not so sure. The Dim Son is nothing if not self-centered. He’s certainly not shown a lot of noblesse oblige to his minions. If you want proof of that, look at the departures of “Heckofajob” Brownie, “WMD in Iraq” Colin Powell, and even “Youfightthewarwitthearmyyouhave” Rumsfeld. If I were Irving, I’d be wondering if the Dim Son isn’t smart enough to know that a paper blizzard would make his presidency postively Nixonian.
Life in the Federal slam with a name like Scooter just doesn’t bear contemplation.
BC
GSD @ 132
Definitely not. I have to log off now, anyway, but I don’t want to check back in and find that. Spare us!
quoting Christie’s piece: ” Having met her [agent Bond] while I was in DC covering the trial…I am certain that she enjoyed slipping in the bit about Scooter being less-than-forthcoming about his own first name.”
This is the very tidbit that struck me yesterday. Only it missed my funny bone and went straight for a quick flick of rage. I mean, the arrogance of it! The playful expression of his own position, power, aristocratic entitlement, whatever you want to call it. There he is, being investigated for releasing the name of a secret agent to the international press, destroying an entire, hitherto effective, anti-proliferation organization– which must have cost us a fortune to set up–not to mention putting God knows how many people in jeopardy, all for the sake of punishing someone who dared to speak against his “boss”– & he ever so winningly won’t tell the FBI his very own name.
It’s a giant fuck you to everybody ‘beneath’ him, however playfully voiced, however unconscious. Man oh man, the vainglorious conceit just slays me. Dear little preppy with the pompous first initial: “I” (iow, me me me)
Reminds me of my favorite haiku in a contest on dK a while back (in the dark days of national consensus):
Madame Lafarge knits
So many republicans
So few guillotines
Fitzmas @ 120
Let’s see, Ann. Committing treason or getting a blow job? Hmm. Treason or blow job? Hmmm. Seems to me that both are pretty memorable. I don’t think I could forget either.
So what’s your point?
Bargain Countertenor @ 136
IANAL, but when did, “I’m being made a scapegoat!” become a legal defense for perjury and obstruction of justice charges?
The OJ trial?
Get the jury to believe there is a conspiracy against your client. That creates sympathy, and therefore doubt of his guilt. It also adds layers of complexity that might distract the jury from clear-cut evidence. Then, hold your breath and bet that the jury will be swayed enough to swap “beyond a reasonable doubt” with “beyond a shadow of a doubt”, and your client is found not guilty.
IANAL, too. Bullshit guessing on my part.
Bargain Countertenor @ 134
Well, that shit was all part of the poignant “everyone’s lying but me, I’m just guilty of innocently erratic memory” canard.
Checkmate draws nigh.
_
I remember stumbling across a Web site where someone was arguing that the “Aspen” in Libby’s Aspen letter was a reference to Les Aspin, who apparently was Judy Miller’s live-in boyfriend at one time.
I didn’t find the argument very persuasive. But it was interesting.
Bargain Countertenor @ 135
I agree with both points. Scapegoating is irrelevant to Scooter’s lying and Bush has never shown any interest in anyone who has left his Administration once they’re gone.
Christy!
MarcyMarcyMARCY!
I have THE book in my hot little hand – yahoo!
But it took some doing.
One of our local bookstores, a very popular Borders that was allotted only 3 cc, & hadn’t a clue last week before they arrived…
I marched in today & started looking. As expected, it had not been put up front on the “NEW BOOKS” table. So I started a fruitless search of Politics & Gov’t section, & finally headed for the usually very grumpy-looking lady who’s worked there for years. She kindly offered to help find the elusive book.
To the computer for details & “search image” (a hat tip to all ethologists out there). Yeah, it was supposed to have arrived, & non of their 3 measily copies had been sold. So-o-o, back to the stacks. Then she to the back room to paw thru boxes of new arrivals, thence to questioning other employees, all of whom hadn’t a clue… So, back to the stacks.
The whole time we were peering high & low, behind & beneath, she learned more & more about the book from yours truly, and I could see her level of steam rising. I apologized for the bother, but remained determined, & quickly came to realize she was not mad at me. She was mad over THE.WHOLE.SYSTEM & how it’s been “taken over” by “them”, starting wayyy back (been to countless marches, etc.; frustrated ’cause “they just don’t DO that around here; they don’t understand.” etc., etc.).
Man-o-man, this lady was gonna find that little book or tear the whole store apart trying.
Well. She did find the 3 little copies(!), bless her. And she smiled for the 1st time I’ve ever seen her do so, in all the years she’s worked there – as she handed me my little book and wished me good reading.
I told her and the younger gal I’d talked with last week about how fast this little book was moving up the charts, and suggested they put the other copies up front, as well as trying to order more. I have no doubt they will. ;->
Congrats Marcy. You sold one whole book in Montrose, Ohio. Heck. It’s a start. This is a hard area to crack. I’ll try to check back & see how they’re doing later. I’m looking fwd to seeing one-a those stand-alone FEATURED BOOK rack deals, heh.
I hope you guys can get some much-needed rest this weekend. You’re incredible!
NOW. To read…..
Hugh @ 141
Only those with the capacity to provide smoking guns. They get Medals of Freedom.
_
Rich @ 138
Let’s see, Ann. Committing treason or getting a blow job? Hmm. Treason or blow job? Hmmm. Seems to me that both are pretty memorable. I don’t think I could forget either.
So what’s your point?
Ummm. Depending on your age, a blow job may not that memorable. As Bill Snyder said to the K-State Wildcats, “We’re all pleased when you score. But please, act like you’ve been there before.”
BC
I hate to even acknowledge the writings of Ann Coulter, but I want to respond. I don’t remember a liberal consensus (during the Clinton investigation) that it was reasonable that Clinton forgot about getting blown.
I remember people arguing vehemently that it wasn’t the government’s business who he was diddling with.
And, I remember a lot of people (like me) who were pissed that he lied, but didn’t believe it warranted impeachment.
That said, Clinton has nothing to do with this trial… unless Ms. Coulter believes this is the first step toward impeachment of the VP. Perhaps the rabid supporters of Bush and Cheney protests indicate where they fear the Libby trial is heading ;0
Rich @ 138
Ah, the classic Limbaugh/Coulter false dichotomy. Only one choice can be right. Both choices cannot be wrong, nor can both choices be correct. The premise of both deductions must be accepted as fact. The false dichotomy trick fools the mouth breathers every time.
hackworth @ 146
I love that.
You are obviously for the terrorists.
_
MSNBC Graphic:
followed by story with headline “UN report on Global Warming Released”. “Human activities have influenced climate”.
Unfortunately, they’re interviewing a former Bush 41 lackey to discuss it.
LandoftheFree @ 134
You’re using Windows, yes?
‘Edit comment’ doesn’t work with IE.
P J Evans — oh nuts!! Thanks, I think when I cut and pasted an earlier version’s rows into the old version, I pasted over Jeffress and then never noticed!!
I’ve also lost the rest of the SF-312 description (NO idea how that happened) and a letter “z” in “Fitz”. Anybody see anything else missing, feel free to shout. Oh, yeah, I should add IIRC to the acronym list, too. ;-)
Will also be posting later today a list of the live blog posts along with related prologue/summary from each day. Don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m finding it difficult to go back and look for a key phrase or sentence in the right post without a list of the entries. I’m about half done, but I need to work on housecleaning in advance of a gaggle of teenage girls showing up for a party here this evening. [sigh] Would much rather work on the Fitz List.
Hugh — you know, you make me think a table of cross-references to help with deciphering political winds might be in order, starting with the one you mentioned.
“[Party name here] doesn’t have an agenda” =
“They won’t do it my way, waaaah!!”
“Trust me” =
“F*ck you, and your little dog too”
“My esteemed colleague” =
“Don’t turn your back on that *sshole”
Anybody else got one?
Oh yeah, and now from I. Lewis:
“What is your full legal name, sir?” =
“I want you to lie to me; I love it when you lie to me!”
newish thread
new threadage upstairs
Thanks again FDL for getting the truth out. I hope everyone has a great week-end. Peace.
P J Evans @ 149
IE sux.
Christy Hardin Smith @
35
Christy, thank you so much for that explanation. This helps me better understand the exchange wrt the McClellan tape.
I still don’t understand how the GJ testimony could be even remotely prejudicial. As FormerFed said, it’s LIBBY’s OWN TESTIMONY? How could that possibly be prejudicial?
Sing it with me . . .
http://lyricsplayground.com/al…..ving.shtml
BobbyG @ 156
In agreement on both comments. I’m trying out IE7. Not sure if I’m gaga over it.
PJ – thanks for letting me know. Yet another reason to dump IE.
brownandserve @
50
OMG, I read this a while back, not realizing WHO the “Aspen Institute” consisted of!!!
I do remember thinking that the authors were largely people I didn’t have much (if any) respect for in terms of their objectivity or analytical skills.
I love reading your write-ups about the case, so I hate to nit-pick, but this is, to my mind, fairly important: you said, regarding Rule 403, “where you have a piece of evidence whose probative value substantially outweighs the prejudicial potential,” the jury is entitled to the evidence. That misstates the legal standard, which is that the jury is entitled to evidence unless the probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger unfair prejudice.
The way you’ve formulated the test, the judge must determine the evidence is substantially more probative than prejudicial; in reality, he need merely conclude it’s not substantially more prejudicial than probative. Some trial judges view these as flip sides of the same coin, but they’re not: if it’s a close call, or the value is exactly balanced either way, the rule favors admission rather than exclusion.
Where Everybody Knows You’re Plame?
ccmask @ 37
Unfriggin believable.
Rayne@104 – I went to your site, which is the most comprehensive of the Libby Trial fact sites I’ve been to, but couldn’t find images of the Libby-Miller letter.
Here’s the same comment with a link to the New York Times for a copy of the letter:
Breaking the Code
The Libby Letter to Miller, Sep. 15th, 2005:
http://www.nytimes.com/package…..051001.pdf
In the letter, Libby tells Miller –
1) Fitzgerald has identified every reporter he had spoken to in JULY, including Miller
—–> Don’t talk about the June 23rd meeting
—–> Libby’s ‘story’ is that he first met Miller on this issue in July
2) That Libby did not discuss Plame’s name or identity with any other reporters
—–> Don’t say that Libby discussed Plame’s name or identity
—–> Libby thinks he’s facing an IIPA Felony charge for leaking Valerie’s covert CIA identity
3) Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work – and life.
—–> Stay on the team! Don’t talk about the ‘second’ stream (Mystery Source!) of Intel (the ‘Aspen Cluster’)
—–> Negotiate with Fitz a narrow scope of testimony limited to Libby as a Source
LandOfTheFree @ 30:
My take, from this site and Isakoff, is this: Cheney is the only other person who could potentially be indicted, but that would depend on whether Libby pleads or is found guilty, and whether his testimony as a convicted purjeror would hold any weight with a jury. I’m not holding my breath.
It’s a hard case to show that bright, clear line from Plame’s status being covert to being public, all due to Armitage’s two leaks prior to Libby.
Had Armitage kept his trap shut, I do think Libby and Rove were well on the way to leaking in a more clear-cut fashion. They tried to blur the line a bit by getting bits and pieces of the information into the public domain through gossip channels, but the journalists weren’t biting. I think within another week, they would have found a way to make the leak more explicit. Armitage’s flappy mouth rushed this strategy a bit.
Remember, Rove was a confirmation source for Novak, and Libby was a confirmation source for Cooper. Neither was the first to divulge the information, and that seems to be a pressing point for Fitz on the IIPA charge. Espionage charges are known to be out because Fitz does not want to chill all future national security reporting. It might serve justice for this administration, but more diplomacy-minded administrations or noble whistleblowers would be adversely impacted. (It’s a tried-and-true and successful method of diplomacy to “send a message” to a foreign country through press accounts when official channels break down. We would want to keep those options open for future governments. And, of course, we do want for the next “Pentagon Papers” to be able to be disclosed when in the public interest).
And since I’ve criticised Armitage’s flappy lips, I should also definitely add that if Libby and Rove had kept their own traps shut, Ms. Wilson would still be doing great service to our country by gathering evidence on WMD production across the globe and none of us would even know who she was.
I’m just going to leave this in the EPU….
Bill Clinton never claimed to have forgotten getting blow jobs from Monica. Never. He said they didn’t have sexual relations, which is defined as intercourse — it’s the Newt Gingrich definition of “sex”.
So Coulter is not only making a stupid comparison between consensual sex between adults, and treason, but she’s lying to do it.
Somehow all of this trial reminds me of Ian Anderson’s “Thick as a Brick”
http://tinyurl.com/cczk
radiofreewill — thanks for the “improved” link, will post it as “Aspen Letter” in one of the tables.
Ugh, that letter is so positively drippy. Gives me gooseflesh reading it.
I just got a new machine, still have to load all the software that I use onto it. It came with WinXP Pro and IE7 preloaded. So far, I can get IE7 to co-operate, but I haven’t given it a really good workout yet. (Step 1: install the modem and dialler software, so that when I put Office Basic on it, it can call home. And so the anti-virus/firewall software will stop complaining that it’s out of date.)
clb72 @ 17
That’d be the sequel to Marcy’s book. I trust she’s working on it right now.
adie @144: Where’s Montrose?
What is very interesting about the first name issue is that this tidbit was brought out on cross by Irving’s attorney. He specifically asked Bond about Irving telling her his name. What an idiotic question! Any criminal defense attorney will tell you that you don’t ask FBI agents ANYTHING that you don’t know the answer to.
Pete @
27
Is DB’S testimony that Libby claimed Plame CIA
from reporters, than recanted and remembered that
Cheney told him?
Must commend you girls you are doing a grand reportage from the Libby court site . Regarding the FBI as a New York City detective I worked with their Queens Office for many years on John Gotti and the Organisied Crime Family’s and yes radical black Muslim groups who liked to stickup banks .Must inform you they are even better then you write in your bloggs here .They are very bright and full of tremendous drive . Second point Fitz comes out of a first generation Irish New York City background as I do . We were products of the Catholic school system so we had three years of French ,Latin and no doubt in Fitz’s case no doubt Greek too . Fitz attended the number one Catholic brain school in America Regis H.S. New York City .Me not bright enough no way for Regis so attended All Hallows H.S.about the second top Catholic H.S. along with Molloy .A tip for you highly educated Catholic first generation Irish from New York City tend to be very moral and very literal about morality .We are especially even more unforgiving with our own about immorality But not hypocritically we know we are sinners too .So with his first generation Irish working class background and his Regis H.S .background Libby has run into the wrong prosecutor for him .Fitz will not say to Libby as St.Augustine stated ” Hate the sin but forgive the sinner “.Know the first generation Irish Catholic educated and we are more like Shakespeare ” We do not suffer fools gladly “.
Hail from Airstrip 1 (check your George Owell)
I’m loving this, Here on the little island we’re wasting time on a mini version about money for being made a lord (trivial but it might just get Blair!).
Sorry if this has been EPUd (see I have been reading) but do we know who actually sent Joe Wilson?
The Insanity Defense…
Clarice Feldman’s “live blogging” is certifiable.
A small sampling of clips/highlights from our favorite American Thunker holding court yesterday at JustOneMinute.
Were you at the trial today?
No–there was a spot available but I figured it would be boring today and I still have to figure out what keeps knocking out my wireless connection.
Dishing on fellow bloggers and NPR:
Jeralyn Merritt has been hands-down the most conflicted person covering this case, since she is both a Bush-bashing progressive and a defense lawyer with no natural affinity to prosecutors.
Jeralyn is a very pleasant, good natured person used to hearing 2 sides of things.
EW has to me the determined mien of an old time prohibitionist. I appreciate her stenography..the rest not so much.
On my cab ride home from the court last night I heard Nina’s report. I couldn’t believe we’d sat in the same trial.
You do understand these “names” run in and out–grab a quickie snippet and go on the air.
Impossible to do justice to such a complex trial that way. NPR’s coverage of the case generally is appalling though.
(Nina is an old friend. Decades ago when we were all young and foolish I fixed her up with Elliott Abrams. LOL I have a pic of them together which I sometimes threaten to make public.) so much more
Two items, one somewhat OT:
First, the Feds knew what the Scoots first name was long before they walked in the door. Don’t misread agent Bond’s testimony to mean they didn’t know it was “Oyving”, they did a LOT of research on him before talking to him. The point is that that he wouldn’t open up to them at all, not even on so minor a thing.
Second, to everyone – do yourself and the world a favor: don’t use IE, EVER. Firefox is great , I myself use and love Opera. They’re both free, easier to use than IE and far far more secure. And while you’re at it, don’t even think about paying for Office which is little more than an invtaiton to be hacked. OpenOffice does pretty much everything Office does, and more. It’s free, works with just about any document or file that ever existed, and FAR less likely to worm its way into your system. Don’t even think about using Outlook. *shudder*
obDisclaimer: IANAL, I am a computer scientist.
drowsy @ 101
You don’t want to create too much of a record, IF you have any hope that this guy is going to be helpful and be YOUR witness. You would have to give over those recordings as 3500/Jencks material. You only want good records of what the bad guys say.
karen allen @
171
Oops! sorry. Around here it’s a notorious example of rampant suburbansprawl, & yet it’s probably not even on a lotta maps.
Area at junction of I 77 and SRte 18 barely west of Fairlawn, west of Akron, in northeast OH.
Fitzmas @ 120
Thanks Ann. What’s really going to stand out is 3,000 dead soldiers and scores of thousands permanently injured as a result of a bogus war based on the lie that Wilson was calling the administration on.
egregious @
170
I was quietly hoping the same. ;->
noota Flatlander @ 178
I use those too, but there are some things you really need MSOffice for. (Most of a BS in CompSci. You wanna buy a Turing machine? Only one owner, great shape….)
Rayne @ 152
Rayne I just went to your site and saw the “cheat sheet” which I prefer to think of as the Playbill. I was surprised and honored to find myself inlcuded. That was so nice of you.
Fitzmas @
120
Note that Coulter had to make sure her readers were reminded that BILL CLINTON GOT HUMMERS FROM A JEWISH CHICK.
Tony @ 174: Is DB’S testimony that Libby claimed Plame CIA from reporters, than ecanted and remembered that Cheney told him?
It’s clear they all learned everything they knew from the British Government.
re: scooter’s note to judy
Am I the only person who thinks Scooter was just talking about the actual Aspen trees turning yellow in the Fall? Furthermore, that he imagines himself a romantic poetical type when in fact he is a fatuous nitwit. (Irving the Cowboy?)
The message in his tree root metaphor can be interpreted as a request for Judy to lie for him as is the part about how everyone who is free to speak is exonerating him, so putting that in writing just makes him a double (triple, quadruple?) idiot.
The downside of putting him on the stand in his own defense will be that everyone will see him for the idiot he is as soon as he opens his mouth.
What was the “second stream” referred to in JM’s testimony?
Libby’s sister, Sandra Libby, is married to John Rendon. He runs the Rendon Group, a public relations firm that played a major role in leading the U.S. into war through its work for Ahmed Chalabi and his Iraqi National Congress. Could the “second stream” have been referring to Feith, the OSP, Chalabi, the INC, etc? The channel the CIA was being shut out of the loop from?
Methinks Libby is sensitive about having the first name “Irving”.
Its not Irving its Irve.
Love the Cheers intro!
ccmask @
48
I read the NY Post article written by Mr. Podhoretz. As a result I asked if he was actually at the trial. He responded he is not. It’s a source issue. Cher
Does anyone else remember the album, When You’re in Love the Whole World is Jewish? Valerie–the woman who played Rhoda on tv–was one of the cast members. Good ol’ Jewish vaudeville stuff. Came out mid-60s. Had a song on there that got some airplay about “Irving–the 152d Fastest Gun in the West?” One of the lines was ‘even on the range he used two sets of dishes.’
I’m wondering if Scooter’s sensitivity to his first name was heightened by that little ditty.
Cher @ 192
Thank you for the reference to this link. I read the NY Post article written by J. Podhoretz. I then emailed him and asked if he was actually at the trial. He responded he was not. It’s a source issue.
Cher @ 195
say what?I have followed the Bond testimony and this ones way way off…she hammered a few nails in “the scooter’s” coffin I think…
after reveiwing his “writeing”…Its clear now…he is a pod…
moe99 @ 193
I have a copy of that song on a Dr. Demento CD! His favorite picks or something. Also had the most hysterical spoof on Star Trek I ever heard, as wll as a short story that was nothing but fish-puns, as funny as it was painful.
Forgive the digresion.
BobbyG @
29
This discussion of “prejudicial” reminds me of the 2000 Bush v. Gore Supreme Court case. In that there was expressed that it would be prejudicial to the rights of Bush for the votes of Floridians to actually be discerned, counted and tallied. But, the catch, as in this Libby case, is that prejudicial isn’t always UNFAIR.
It wasn’t fair for Floridians to have their votes ignored and it’s not always unfair for a defendant to have prejudicial evidence presented against them. After all, without prejudicial evidence you’d never be able to convict anyone by showing they had actually done something criminal.
Funny how the whole Bush admin. doesn’t like ‘prejudicial’ things in the same way they don’t like ‘reality-based’ things. Anything which might contradict what Dubya wants or feels becomes a problem. He’s just a little tyrant and that’s even reflected in this defense argument in the Libby trial.
I can’t wait for VP Cheney to testify that Dubya told him to ‘take care of Wilson’ or somesuch.
First FDL post!
I wonder if there weren’t actually two separate instances of leaks against the Wilson’s. Robert Novak went further in his attacks on Plame, the second time speaking on CNN and actually revealing Brewster Jennings by name. Was that in the INR? I don’t think so, and it doesn’t appear in any of the testimony.
How did he know this? How did he dig up where she worked? Anyone know? Is it possible that after Novak’s column, Rove or Libby actually went back to Novak and leaked again, knowing what a shit storm they’d just kicked up?
Willing treason for political expediency.
What if there were TWO reasons for outing Valerie Plame?
The MSM cites a vindictive vendetta by the bush administration because her husband debunked bush’s main justification for attacking Iraq. We already know that’s true.
But maybe there’s another reason.
Maybe bush wanted to destroy the deep cover CIA operation that would certainly debunk the false claims being made now about Iran’s so-called nuclear weapons program.
Our best estimate is that Iran is at least a decade away from producing a nuclear weapon.
If the neocons infesting the bush administration want to attack Iran too, for WMD’s that don’t exist, what could be better than nuking the CIA’s program to track WMD’s?
It wasn’t just a single NOC operative destroyed by the bush administration, but rather an entire international operation dedicated to preventing a WMD attack in the USA.
So did bush destroy the career of a single person just because he was annoyed with her husband, or did he destroy a secret worldwide CIA program to eliminate the possibility of the truth about Iran’s primitive nuclear program being known in the USA?
Did bush destroy the CIA Brewster Jennings operation for the express purpose of falsely claiming that Iran is less than a decade away from viable nuclear weapons because he intends to attack Iran soon?
I think it was both!