
Hearsay is likely to be a HUGE feature of this trial. It is also, IMHO, an area of the Rules of Evidence that requires more creativity and strategic thinking than the others and therefore has always held a fascination for me.
Hearsay is defined by Rule 801 of the Federal Rules of Evidence as a “statement” (which can be oral, written or even nonverbal if intended as an assertion—think of a thumb’s up or an “OK” hand sign, or gang sign for that matter) other than one made by the witness while testifying, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.
In easier terms, it is an out of court declaration offered to prove the truth of itself. So, when Judy says Scooter told her X during their breakfast rendezvous in the hotel, that is an out of court declaration by Scooter. If Scooter said (and I’m making this up just for an example) that Cheney had kidnapped Santa Claus and had him tied up in the bunker in the WH basement and we wanted to offer that to prove 1) that there is a Santa Claus, or 2) that Cheney kidnapped Santa, or 3) that Santa was tied up in the WH bunker; well folks, THAT would be hearsay. Of course, we don’t need Scooter’s say so to prove there is a Santa, we already know there is.
There are some out of court statements that are not hearsay and they will figure prominently in the Fitzmas trial.
The first is prior statements by the witness on the stand. Remember, all or almost all of the witnesses in this case have testified in the grand jury, testified in a deposition or given a statement to the FBI or lawyers for the prosecution. If the prior statement was given under oath and differs from the testimony the witness is now giving in the trial, it may be used to “impeach” the witness’s credibility or show that the witness is now lying. If the statement is consistent with the testimony now being given by the witness at trial it may be used, regardless of whether or not is was taken under oath, to rebut charges that the testimony being offered is a recent fabrication.
So, “prior consistent statements” by, let’s say a reporter to another reporter or to his editor, can be used to prove that the reporter is not making it up are misremembering things two years later.
The second is called in Rule 801 (d)(2) a “admission by party-opponent,” but more often referred to an “admission against party interest”. Last Saturday night I was watching an old Tyrone Powers/Charles Lawton movie called “Witness for the Prosecution”. Marlene Dietrich played the wife of the accused and gets on the stand and testifies that on the night of the murder her husband came home covered in blood and said “I killed the old lady”.
Even though that was an out of court statement and offered by the prosecution to prove that Tyrone Powers was the murderer, it was allowed into evidence to prove that he committed the murder because it was a statement, made by a party to the case against his own interests in the case. The idea being, why would go you around saying something detrimental to your own interests unless it were true? Psychologists reading this know how unreliable that is, but shrinks didn’t write these rules. This exception applies to regular witnesses too, if the admission is against some interest of theirs and they are unavailable to testify at trial.
Some hearsay is allowed into evidence. These types of evidence are called hearsay exceptions (I think admissions against party interest should be classed as a hearsay exception, b/c it so clearly IS hearsay, but I don’t write these rules either). The hearsay exceptions are based on the idea that the circumstances surrounding them are such, that it is unlikely a person would be motivated to lie.
1) Present Sense Impression. That is someone describes to you something they are perceiving with one or more of their five senses as it is happening or immediately thereafter. A good example was a recent drunk driving case in Lawn Guyland. A guy got on a highway here, going the wrong way. People in other cars called up 911 and described, as it was happening, or right after they saw it, the car, the direction it was traveling and the speed and weaving manner it was traveling.
2) Excited Utterance. Similar to above but used to prove the declarant’s then state of mind, emotion, pain, etc.
3) Statements made for the purpose of diagnosis or medical treatment. The idea being that if you want the doctor to be able to help you, you will be motivated by self interest to tell the truth.
4) Statements made in fear of impending death. Deathbed statements are considered reliable b/c you are supposedly not going to lie just before you meet St. Peter.
5) Regularly Recorded records. I’m going to lump a bunch of separately listed hearsay exceptions here because they all operate on a similar principal. If you need to keep records for the purpose of relying on them yourself, business records, public records, religious records (marriage, baptism, etc), records of vital statistics, family records (family bible recording marriages, births etc), records and the statements therein relating to property ownership– all that kind of stuff—the idea is that you would not screw up your own ability to conduct you ordinary life’s business by putting down lies. I know, I know, two sets of books, fabricated evidence …… I hear you. Remember, just because it gets admitted into evidence does not mean you cannot contest its accuracy.
6) Market reports and similar tabulations. Think stock market ticker info, that kind of information. Again, because if it’s not accurate, there’s bigger problems than just one trial.
7) Learned Treatises. Textbooks and peer reviewed articles.
Now, there is class of hearsay that actually ISN’T hearsay, because it does not meet the full definition of hearsay. That is a statement that is not offered for the proof of itself. It is offered merely to prove that it was said. WHAAAAT? You say. What does that mean? Why would you want to offer a statement not to prove the truth of what was said?
Lots of reasons. For example, if I am on the stand and testifying about why I went to the store to buy a quart of milk on Monday, I will be allowed to testify that an hour before another person told me we were out of milk and needed to buy some more. It does not matter IF WE WERE ACTUALLY OUT OF MILK. The other person could have been mistaken or lying to me. The issue is not whether or not we were out of milk, it is why I went to the store to get milk.
Sometimes you offer statement not to prove the truth of itself, but expressly to prove that the out of court statement uttered to the person on the stand is demonstrably FALSE. Gee, can anyone name an upcoming trial where that might happen?? (Many raised hands.. Yes, you in the back—yes, you in the fishbowl. Ned , it it?).
You may also offer a statement to show absence of mistake, prior knowledge, or consciousness of guilt. (See Rule 801(d)(1) for the exact rule on this.)
So, this is a fun set of rules for playing the “anticipate the testimony” game. Who can give examples of testimony we expect during the Fitzmas trial and how the hearsay rules will used to get it in?
I can’t wait to read this thread. This is gonna be fun. I’m going to print his one out and use it as a check off scorecard during the trial!
Related posts:





Spotlight







Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

Fitz!! LHP!!!
I hear say that Looseheadprop is in the house!
I was wondering what had happened to Santa.
Morning all — it’s freezing ass cold here this morning. The birdies are looking fat and sassy on the feeder this morning. It’s something like 13 degrees right now — and that’s warmer thanit was when I woke up this morning. Brrrrrr…hot coffee is good. :P
twolf1 @ 2
bill o’reily was right?! there is a war on christmas!
… thanks lhp… i am soooo looking forward to today’s trial coverage.
Good Morning!!! I promise to not hit the refresh button more than once/hour…. [must.be.strong…]
CHS – how much show did you get?
What time is everything starting this morning? 9? Is Ari the first person up or does Martin have more to say?
epu’ed from previous thread…
in addition to THE trial…. tuesday there is the senate judiciary committee hearing, “Exercising Congress’s Constitutional Power to End a War”
wednesday kissinger and albright testify before the senate foreign relations committee, “Iraq in the Strategic Context, session 1″…. followed by snowcroft and brzezinski on thursday for session 2.
big week!
morning all, i trust we had fun can’t-wait-for-monday-testimony weekends? pach has a terrific post up at huffington, btw.
Thank you to all, Jane (God bless) and the energetic CHS as well as the ever growing crowds of seekers of the truth.
dmg @ 10
May I have a linky please?
Mornin’ Pups.
I have to blow out of hear for a deposition in 1/2 hour. If anybody has any questions that I do not get to this morning, I will answer them when I get back to the toobz at the end of the day. So if you want answers. check back tonight or tomorrow morning.
Christy will be here for the entire thread and can cetainly handle most of it in that state rules of evidence don’t differ that much from the Federal Rules of Evidence, because they originally came from English common law.
Good Morning! I am new here. Was present here since trial began. Looking so forward to today.
Thanks for the great job you all are doing here @FDL!!
Marcy, you were great on CSPAN Sat. morning.!!
Who can give examples of testimony we expect during the Fitzmas trial and how the hearsay rules will used to get it in?
heh – “I was directed to leak *this* portion of the NIE”. (offering cherry-picked portion into evidence).
selise @ 9
looks like I’ll be up late into the night doing what should’ve been done during the day!
raven @ 12
be glad to:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..39838.html
LHP, i’d like to play your hearsay game, but i don’t have the depth of detail which you, Marcy, Christy and all have. We can likely be sure there will be hearsay issues with the Miller and Cooper testimonies and crosses, and perhaps Cathie Martin will be recalled. But i’ll leave it to the experts and commenting detail hounds.
It’s enough to be able to have FDL providing and open window on the trial. Danke, Alle.
twolf1 — we only got about half an inch of snow, but it is underlaid with a bit of ice, so things are very slippery here this morning. No school today, so The Peanut is home and watching Little Einsteins. :)
I also happen to believe that “it was de-classified” shoudn’t be offered for the truth of the matter – just as state of mind.
coffee IS good!
‘morning, all… here we go again!
Crazy Horse @ 18
Ok, how about Ari? What will he be saying that might be 1) an admission of Libby’s?
2) an admission against Ari’s own interest?
3)offered for the fact it was said, rather than to prove the truth of the matter stated?
“I was assured that Ms. Plame was *not* undercover.
jayt @ 20
I don’t know if you can even offer that for state of mind, b/c AFTER is was supposedly insta-declassified by Cheney, Libby is still asking whether that would count. I don’t think Libby was sure in his own mind it WAS declassified.
jayt @ 23
Who said that? I don’t remember that one.
Jane S. at 8 — Libby trial proceedings are set to begin M – Th at 9:30 am ET. That’s the schedule that Judge Walton set at the start of trial and will be the schedule barring any changes and/or extraordinary circumstances that force an earlier start (say for extra motions time or something). The judge is squeezing in matters from other cases (motions, scheduling conferences, probation revocation hearings, etc.) early in the morning, so I would expect him to stick to this schedule as much as he can to keep his docket moving.
Bill Press just reported on his show that scooter took ari to lunch at the WH, after which ari leaked to D Gregory. Is the first part of this new?
HERE IN TEXAS — BUSHLAND NOT — THATS A ROVE INVENTION, WITH BUSH IN TIGHT BLUE JEANS [YOU FOLLOW?] ITS COLDER’N BILLY HELL, BUT WE ARE DRYING OUT FROM THE DRIP OF SEVERAL WEEKS AND MY MONDAYS ARE BRIGHTER BECAUSE YOU FDLers KEEP THE HOME FIRES BURNING. ITS LIKE BEING HOME. THE ANTICIPATION HERE IS PALPABLE. HAVING SEEN SOME OF THE NIXON TAKE DOWN, HAVING HAD A LADY FRIEND IN JAWORSKI’S OFFICE I SEE A LOCK ON BUSH AND CHENEY, LIKE A CHOKEHOLD. I WISH STOMPING THE FLOOR WOULD SPEED IT UP. WE NEED MORE GAS IN THE TANK, HERE COMES FITZ WITH A CAN FULL. GO FITZ. WE HAVE MORE WORK FOR YOU WHEN YOU’VE MOPPPED UP THIS ROOM. BLESS THE FDL HOUSE AND ALL WHO COME HERE.
dmg @ 17
Thanks, that was great!
Marcy has a new post up at Next Hurrah on what she thinks happened.
typo police, please delete this post once correctd;
The idea being, why would go…
should be why would YOU go…
Gang — Bob Geiger has compiled the schedule for the Senate hearings this week. Just FYI — very useful stuff. Thanks, Bob!
See you later. Off the salt mines. have a great day all
thanks, lhp – great post!!
Thanks for the link OldCoastie.
Thanks very much, looseheadprop!! I adore these primers, very, very helpful.
And TIMELY!!
LHP — Have good depositions today. May you have a Perry Mason moment. *g*
Rayne at 36 — We were trying to time this one on Hearsay for Ari’s testimony, figuring it would be very useful to have it fresh on our minds as the trial rolls forward at that point. I have a feeling we’ll be dealing with a lot of hearsay intricacies with Ari.
no doubt you’re right that it’ll be knotted up in legal arguments and niceties, christy, but if there’s anyone i’d like to see smacked around hard on the stand by fitz, it’s ari.
lhp at 24 — I agree — I think Libby asking Addington about what is and is not proper in disclosures of the selective NIE portions is pretty good evidence that he was not at all confident of the declassification as it was told to him. Otherwise, why ask Addington at all if you weren’t worried about CYA on that count? It was an odd step to take, unless he was unsure of his footing.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 26
Thanks Christy. I’d like to play the hearsay game but I thought that I’d get a few things done around the house. (I’ve already loaded the dishwasher so I am VERY impressed with myself.) Freezing here in Richmond, VA.
you see lawyers claiming “goes to state of mind”
if I’m told my child was in a car accident with no ambulance that be used to demonstrate why I might be speeding
Prof. Prop,
sorry I missed you – along with Sister Rayne, I concur these posts are so very helpful – hope you have an FDL day !
Good Morning Firedogs -
My longer comment from yesterday morning didn’t post so I’ll keep this short. Thanks, looseheadprop, for these legal background lessons. Most enlightening and much appreciated.
B&N just informed me the “supplier has changed the release date on the pre-ordered merchandise (Marcy’s book) but expects to ship it soon.” Is this what other bookstores are saying?
Okay – here’s one
If Ari says during the lunch Libby tells him about Plame and says it was hush-hush (what has been reported previously) and then tells Ari to get reporters looking into it because Cheney wants it out. Is that last part hearsay? It is not trying to prove that Cheney really wanted it out, right? Only that Scooter was pushing the story (and so couldn’t have forgotten). So it should be allowed, no? The charges are perjury, not the leak.
EPU’d below – but about other types of “hearsay.”
Richmond @ 153
And, manners (sorry). Before barging in stoked with 2 cuppa’s in the belly I should av wished everyone a Good morning. And, thanks LHP for this terrific piece!
Goooood Morrrnnning FDL!!! Lets Rock. If this trial lasts 6 months I’m going to have this chair fusing to my rear. You folks have a captive. What I really am waiting for is the unknown witness that drops the bomb. Like the unknown guy that exposed Nixon’s secret taping system.
Listening to Big and Rich on Imus this morning at the dedication of the Intrepid rehabilitation center for military at San Antonio.
Intro-ing their song, 8th of November, one of the duo said “We’re all patriots.” And we all care about the men and women serving.
Echo the “We’re all patriots.” And echo Webb’s comments yesterday shaming the rw scam of challenging people’s patriotism as a marketing tool.
Real heroes don’t do that. Cowards and faux cowboys do. What’s happening here today, San Antonio today, Washington this past weekend, is patriotism at its best. Democracy, too.
After LHP pointed out what we might expect from the Fleischer testimony, it makes sense that we’ve had a hearsay review primer.
I have to say again, the more i learn of what we all suspected and what is now coming out at trial, that the respect i have for Joe Wilson (and the counter proliferation “wife”) grows and grows. May we find a thousand Wilsons (and Ellsburgs) blooming, taking back what is ours.
Imus now perpetuating the lie that soldiers were spat on coming back from Vietnam.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit yells Mr. Sunshine from the other room. That’s an urban myth.
looseheadprop @ 25
Oh. I thought we were anticipating.
Sally @ 45: Amazon says my copy is delayed as well. Anyone know what’s going on? Some discussion of this in the last thread.
On Amazon delays. Things happen like this lots in the printing business. But I also remember a big scandal a year or so ago wherein every time you did a search for a book on abortion at Amazon, you came back with something on adoption and rescue. I wouldn’t put it past the lot to be holding back distribution. Marcy’s contacts with the publisher probably would have a clearer story.
Today’s AP Libby story: Press strategy still focus in Libby case
Hahahaha
So Jeralyn Merritt and I were finishing up at security and I nod my head to her to show that Defense team was all loading into the elevator. She disappears! having jumped into the elevator to introduce herself to Libby’s team.
She and Pach will be in the court room today.
OT- Several alternate versions of what happened in Najaf over the weekend from Prof. Juan Cole’s site (very interesting read):
http://www.juancole.com/
Again @ 54
The books shipped from the printer on Wednesday–though they were supposed to ship earlier than that, which may be the delay. I’ll email Will to ask him for an update.
What a great and informative diary. Articulating the unarticulable (I guess there’s a pun in there somewhere). God!! This is such a great “Place.” Thanks!!
emptywheel @ 56
good for jeralyn!!
and great news that both jeralyn and pach will be in the court room! how did that happen – 2 seats?!!!
okay, this is one of those moments where I boldly show my ignorance of many of the details most of you are aware -
mebbe so, but I can’t get away from the narrow scope of the charges - lying
so here in Simpletown don’t see how state of mind or much of anything else would defend against the charges – so many of the informed comments go to the actual outing of Valerie and WH machinations towards same, but this guy is on trial for lying and obstructing justice – and I get that Team Libby will be like an octopus throwing all kinds of shiny objects out there to confuse the jury or engender reasonable doubt, but from the Fitz presser announcing the indictment on – they’ve got him
Phrase o’the Day…so far:
Bureaucratic flackery, courtesy Chris Matthews in exchange with Amy on MSNBC re the WH response to Clinton’s statement that Bush should clean up his own war.
Matthews says some pro forma response by some third or fourth level flunky in the WH is hardly a courageous, manly man response [my paraphrase] from The Man. When Bush responds himself, that’s “the White House.” Meanwhile, it’s just bureaucratic flackery.
EW, do you have any copies left from the signing? How’s the liquor cabinet looking at the Plame house? (nothing like a little bribery for breakfast?)
emptywheel @ 57
If I’m seeing the dynamics in the courtroom right, Jeralyn is now trying to schmooze Comstock. (That Jeralyn, she’s a softie for defense teams.)
Whispers to Again @ 54, I have to say I see Republican conspiracies everywhere, even when the electricity goes off or some such.
Good morning all. Happy to see that there are plenty of front row seats left for the days events.
Christy: Enjoy your snow day with the peanut.
OT – hee hee, Hillary’s statement about shrub being irresponsible for leaving Iraq for the next prez has got Cheney’s shorts in a knot… (via msnbc tv)
Prairie Sunshine @ 52
amen to that. i have never, ever heard any vietnam vet say they personally caught a glob in the face. yet the myth gets repeated by some vets, and many commentators.
there was clearly less enthusiasm for returning vets than from previous wars, but that was as much or more institutional — i.e., no vietnam vet parades thrown by municipalities or veterans groups for years and years — as it was personal. and it wasn’t disdain for the vets that limited public displays, it was shame, or more likely, just embarrassment at losing the war.
Pat_AlexVA @ 64
Yes, I have plenty of copies, so if anyone’s in DC, I can get it to you sooner.
Though the liquor cabinest is holding up nicely.
Sally @66: Whispers back, that’s because there are republican conspiracies everywhere!!
The war will not end unless the media decides to end it. They have more power than our elected officials.
emptywheel @ 65
yeah, but maybe schmoozing will get her some intereting tidbits to share with us…
selise at 73 — I was just thinking the same thing. Comstock wasn’t going to talk with me about ANYTHING. Maybe Jeralyn will have better luck. LOL
ooo – I’m so excited! I can get Talk Left thru the firewall at work! Today I can participate! (well, at least keep up to some extent)
emptywheel @ 70
Well, geez, why didn’t ya say so? When can I pick it up? *g*
I also got the delay message from Amazon for Marcy’s book. Dammit.
Anyone know what the deal is?
emptywheel (65) — hope Jeralyn keeps in mind that the opposition has been surfing these blogs.
Can’t believe that Wells’ office was so [insert modifier here] about this, actually going to patrickfitzgerald.blogspot.com and leaving
his“fingerprints” while doing so.edit: T – scroll up, Marcy’s already answered a question about book delivery timing. More info to come, stay tuned.
I’m across the river, but I’ll be going in. So if there’s another book signing, (or better yet, Plame Happy Hour?), or another event – please do tell.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 74
That’s the idea. She’s contemplating whether or not to look up Luskin while she’s in town. I’m certainly encouraging her to do so.
OldCoastie @ 68
CHECK OUT THIS INTERVIEW
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0128.html
ok, raw story has cheney in interview acually with the nerve to say Iraq will be 4 administrations problemss
that’s 32 years
LET’S REPEAT THAT, THAT’S 32 FUH RIKKING YEARS GA DAMN IT
this should be the lead on everyone’s blog, from;
“I doubt 6 months” that his secretary of defense told us, you know, the guy he clained is the best secretary of defense in history, and his “the last throws”
TO 32 FRIGGIN YEARS
that should be the lead on every blog, since the newspapers won’t do real reporting we need to make clear what needs to be made clear
Schuster on msnbc now.
Morning! Fresh bath, fresh coffee, fresh hells for Libby and BushCo today. Ahhhhhhhh
‘Ere we go
With Ari the way around the hearsay rule is not found in the exceptions, but the rule itself. The important aspect of Ari’s testimony will concern that he was told, not the truth of what he was told. If he testifies X told me on June 6th that Valerie Plame was Joe Wilson’s wife and a CIA operative, the key is that he was told by X on June 6th, not the truth of whether Valerie Plame was Joe Wilson’s wife or a CIA operative. Most simply put, that evidence is not hearsay.
If anyone at the courthouse runs into Mr. Fleischer, could you give him my business card?
Again @ 71, thanks for that!
Good Morning! I am new here. Was present here since trial began. Looking so forward to today.
allow me to direct you to the Donate box at the upper left of the page (right under the Advertize Liberally banner)
many of the new FDL readers here for the Libby trial don’t realize that most of the FDL “correspondents” don’t live in DC, and that FDL is renting an apartment for the duration of the trial — in other words, in addition to the bandwidth being used, there are significant housing, food, and travel expenses that need to be covered for this to work (and AFAIK, everyone involved is volunteering their time and expertise.)
So give early, and give often–and if you want your donation to be used specifically for the Libby trial coverage, add 7 cents to any whole dollar amount (e.g. $50.07 guarantees that the money goes to paying trial coverage expenses, $50.00 can be used to defray overall expenses incurred by FDL) Thank you.
old gold at 84 — That’s going to be quite a bit of it, along with the “present sense impression” issues involved. But I’d bet on a lot of objections to interrupt the train of thought as Ari is testifying. It can get very confusing if you are interrupted quite a bit for bench conferences — and it makes the storyline more difficult for the jury to follow if they hear it in fits and starts. Sometimes, objections can be a strategic as much as a legal thought process from the lawyers involved. Will be interesting to see how this plays out and how Judge Walton deals with it today. I got a definite feeling that Team Libby was not at all excited about Cathie Martin nor Ari Fleischer, which makes me wonder what it is that they thought either witness knew and would say.
So Redd, would the “article” which scared the bejesus out of Ari, would that article be considered hearsay?
everyone have a great day – I’ll catch up tonight!
Pat_AlexVA @ 89
My mother and I had a dispute about this. She still thinks Ari could be the “1″ in 1×2×6. I said that he can’t be the one b/c he reads the article and panics. If he were the source, he wouldn’t panic like that.
Pat at 89 — Yes, but so long as it is not being entered for the “truth of the matters asserted therein” but simply as an exhibit of something that the witness read which caused their own state of mind, then it should be admissible, provided that the probative value outweighs the potential for prejudice against the defendant. Judge Walton has admitted a number of these articles into evidence already.
Jane S. @ 91
1 was also described, in the present tense, as an SAO. Ari no longer worked in the Admin at that point.
EW (93) — agh, that’s it, that’s why I couldn’t make the 1x(3-1)x6 work. It was timing, which as they say is everything.
Now have to go back to the 1×2×6 article.
I am looking forward to Ari’s testimony, to see if I can see the shape of the information that Fitzgerald does not want to come into evidence in this trial.
I’m presently of the opinion that Ari’s immunized testimony was not primarily about Scooter, which is why notes on that testimony are not relevant to Scooter’s defense.
beth at 95 — I’ve been haggling in my own mind whether the bulk of Ari’s testimony had to do with Rove or Cheney or both, neither of which would have to do with Libby’s case at bar at the moment. And wondering what, if anything, Fitzgerald and his team might be planning for that information at some point down the road, depending on what they might get in testimony during this trial.
emptywheel @ 93
Thanks EW. My Mom will definitely trust your take on it! I’ll be asking for your book as a birthday present–my bday is coming up.
Forgive me if I missed this above, but it’s half-past 9, when is the trial starting?
Will the transcription be on this thread or will EW start a new thread. I’m in a panic! Am I missing something.?
I expect that Marcy will start a new thread for the live-blogging. It will probably go up soon. Right now, we’re just waiting for her to put it up.
Libby thread
Something I find fascinating about this is the fact that hearsay is a big part of Bush’s War Tribunals. They want to allow hearsay when trying to prosecute suspected terrorists, but I’m quite sure that Scooter & the Shooter won’t like it too much when it’s used against them.
“Objection, you’re honor – hearsay.”
Objection overulled…..
Attaturk at 98 — The trial starts around 9:30 am ET every day, give or take for when the jury is brought in from the jury room and/or other matters to which the judge has to attend on other cases prior to the start of trial each day.
Marcy will liveblog in a new thread — that’s been our practice every morning — and I’m sure she’ll get one started as soon as there is a reason to do so. Do not panic. *g*
On Deck…
“Ari Fleischer has a unique view of crisis communications. During his time at the White House, he worked through the September 11th attacks, two wars, economic turbulence and the outing a covert CIA operative. His meatless pronouncements on Bush policy were generally in keeping with a White House that keeps a tight lid on the truth. He often professed ignorance about details. These days, he’s leading Ari Fleischer Communications, a firm (he spends his days unshaven and in his boxers) that supplies advice to clients (himself) on how to handle the press and how to strategically develop communication ideas hopefully for really high fees (because he is broke).” – AFC, Inc.
Kids, don’t let this happen to you. Work hard, stay in school, say “No, thank you!” to graft, “Hell no!” to drugs, and most importantly, stay awake during ethics class.
I have experienced opposing counsel trying to destroy the flow of testimony by continuous objections. Normally though, if you have a strong judge, that tactic backfires. The judge signals to the jury that it is inappropriate and it does damage to opposing counsel’s credibility.
old gold at 105 — I’ve had the same thing occur. *g* And it’s never pretty to get a dressing down by the judge right in front of the jury for a tactical backfire.
Christy — will speculate about this here since it’s not related directly to current activity in the courthouse.
Yesterday I speculated at TNH:
“might it not be as simple as Team Libby NOT being entitled to testimony by Fleischer in regards to anything outside Libby’s indictment? If Fleischer testified in regards to violations of IIPA and conspiracy by Libby (or anybody else), this isn’t material to the charges of obstruction, perjury and false statements and therefore need not be turned over per Giglio? Assuming this is the case and Fleischer has not yet testified on the stand in this case about the 5 counts, any other content germaine to the 5 counts against Libby are not yet Jencks?
IANAL, but it seems to me that Fitz extended immunity based on Fleischer’s proffer about other charges and not about Libby — that the pig-in-the-poke is what Fleischer might say about Libby. Open to critique since this is merely speculation.”
New thought from sleepless (read: sleep deprived) consideration: what if Fleischer’s testimony was not only about somebody else’s behavior (and not about Libby), but demonstrated that he was left out? What if it shows he wasn’t in the loop because he has none of the information that others have?
Is non-testimony not required for disclosure under Giglio?
I started reading on the plane on my way home from DC, Marcy. It’s great so far. I’m about up to page 40.
Thanks again for coming to the DU meetup Friday night — everyone really appreciated it.
Hope you had a great time at the march — we sure had a wonderful day for it. And the crowd went wild when they announced that Rove had been subpoenaed — a lot of us hadn’t heard the news yet.
The other problem with non-winning objections is that they can act as a signal to the jury that what is about to be testified to is important. So, you end up drawing attention to your opponent’s most damning evidence.
looseheadprop @
33
More like the gold mines for all of us!
OT–Here’s Cheney deluded in his interview with Richard Wolffe of Newsweek:
Morning everyone.
Oh goodie LHP. I love this sorta stuff.
housekeeping:
-Paragraph 6, line 2 “are” should be “or”?
-4rd Paragraph from the end, next to last word “it” should be “is”?
sorry, picky picky.
NOW back to the play-by-play & thread upstairs, AND the comments there & here, & stuff downstairs. EEEP!
choochmac @
46
Yes, because any statement by Libby to a person testifying as a witness (e.g., Ari Fleisher) is admissible, provided that it’s relevant and not self-serving. This is true whether the statement (1) is offered to prove the matter asserted in the statement, (2) is a statement against his penal interest, or (3) is offered to show his state of mind when he made the statement. Why? Because any statement by a defendant, whether oral, written, or non-verbal conduct, is defined as non-hearsay.
The self-serving statement or declaration, to which I referred, usually is a statement by a defendant denying guilt or claiming innocence. Due to heightened suspicions that a defendant’s denial of guilt could be truthful, court’s exclude such statements on the ground that they are self-serving and, therefore, presumptively unreliable.
Libby is not charged with conspiracy, which requires proof that an agreement existed between two or more people to commit a specific crime (e.g., out Plame). If the grand jury had indicted Rove and superseded Libby’s indictment charging both with conspiracy, then another exception comes into play. Statements made in furtherance of a conspiracy by a member of the conspiracy, whether indicted or not, are admissible against each member of the conspiracy, whether they were present when the statement was made and whether they knew about it or not. I haven’t looked at Libby’s indictment for several months and I can’t recall if it contained any allegations regarding the existence of a conspiracy and if it referred to some of its members as known or unknown to the grand jury. I don’t believe that it did.
Where this hearsay rule might have come into play is if, for example, Fitzgerald were to introduce sufficient evidence that a conspiracy to out Plame existed involving some of the members of the White House Iraq Group (WHIG), such as Hadley, the Office of the Vice President (OVP), such as Cheney, and the Office of Special Plans in the DoD (OSP), such as Douglas Feith, then any statement by any member of that conspiracy made to further the objective of the conspiracy (such as your example of Libby’s statement about Cheney) would be admissible. Your example would demonstrate the point better if Cheney had been indicted, but not Libby. Then, Libby wouldn’t be a defendant so his statement about what Cheney said would be hearsay (if offered to prove the matter asserted), but it would be admissible if Libby, for example, was an unindicted coconspirator and his statement was to Fleisher was made in furtherance o9f the conspiracy.
Had enough? Fun to speculate about, huh?
Its Tyrone Power and Charles Laughton. Jeez, Kids today.