FITZ!!!

Damn. Thought I might get it.

Ari!!

Dinner!!

Popcorn, peanuts, red hots, cold beer?

Firepups–

Remember, if you appreciate the liveblogging (and I know you do!), remember, the Plame House is not free. The servers are not free. Let’s keep Jane and company focussed on doing their work, and not on worrying about the funds. I sent $100 this weekend (may the snail mail gods send it with all speed!), which was roughly my annual Sunday NY Times budget before I stopped reading dead trees. What can you give?

Hit the paypal link in the upper right, or snail mail

The Fire Dog Lake Company
8033 Sunset Blvd. #966
Los Angeles, CA 90046

Go Fitzie and Team!!!

Did Libby say anything to you to make you think the info was classified or protected.

Just curious — did Ari respond to this one before he described trip?

Tried to watch live feed of today’s Snowjob presser. It kept cutting off, but I did hear someone ask Snowjob (1)was the WH following the trial, and (2) was he glad he wasn’t press secretary in 2003! Snowjob’s answer to the first question was that “we’re not all atwitter about it all the time,” and he just laughed in response to the second.

I’ll bet he thanks the gods every day.

So many allusions to hogs in the last week:
hog wash; pig in a poke; when pigs fly; and, lipstick on a pig.
For future reference here are some unused ones: as worthless as as tits on a boar; as independent as a hog on ice; as common as pig tracks; even a blind sow finds an acorn every once in a while; and, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear

Personally, I wish someone would call Scott McClellan, just for the comic relief aspect. I don’t think he has any knowledge of anything here that would be useful to anyone, but it sure would be fun to see him try to explain… anything.

I love this from Ari:
“Like a lot of things i said to the press it had no impact.”

What do you expect when you offer distortions and spin? The only impact is the splat of poop on the wall…

fnord.

The trial is going well so far, everything but the squeal…soon, very soon.

Pach is off to the Court Room. He said the juror who is gone is the white 30s female who laughs a lot, a travel agent. I’m fairly certain she was one of the jurors, not an alternate. Don’t know who was the first alternate, but I think all the alternates were from the last day of voir dire.

I take it this is probably a good thing since it seemed that Judge Walton was a little tougher on the Defense during the last day of voir dire.

Oops, Ari said “covert officer.” Gonna be awfully hard to unring that bell. My guess is that this is going to be a longish sidebar.

Peterr first posted this…but it needs to be posted each thread…

********************

Given the expected traffic here during the Libby trial, a few reminders to the regulars and words of welcome to newcomers might be in order. FDL’s comments are moderated, mostly to eliminate the mass spam that flies around the Internet. All comments run first through an automated spam filter, and if caught, are then checked by human moderators, because in addition to spam, the filters also catch regular comments from time to time.

To make newcomers feel a bit more at ease, here’s some info that will keep your comments from landing in moderation or otherwise clog things up and make life difficult for the mods:

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5. Preview is your friend. Before you send that post, especially if you’ve used bold, italics, or inserted a link, check it out by clicking the preview button before you submit it. It saves on the cleaning bills.

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Finally, and most importantly: Do not feed the trolls. It just encourages them, and makes life difficult for the mods.

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Welcome to the ‘Lake! The water’s warm, so jump right in.

***************

also… marcy timestamps her updates, and only updates every 15 minutes or so. In order to reduce demand on the servers, wait at least about 15 minutes after the previous update before “refreshing”

This is captivating stuff.

Thanks again, FDL for liveblogging and for giving us non-lawyers the rundown of what is happening.

Do I understand the prefixes for who is talking correctly?
P = Prosecution team member
W = Wells (Defense lawyer)
dunno how you indicate the judge
Fl = Ari Fleischer
M = Cathie Martin (Cheney’s former press secy)
Timmeh = Tim Russert, both before and after castration

Anybody else I’m missing for the tip sheet of who is who?

(Suggestion: it could be helpful to post the code prefixes at the top of each new thread. Unfortunately, some of us can only tune in once or twice a day, and it’s hard to keep up on who is who)

MSNBC story is a good rundown of precisely everything blogged on FDL today. For some reason, they didn’t mention Shuster’s phone going off (ha!) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16864142/

Christy Hardin Smith @ 13

Oops, Ari said “covert officer.” Gonna be awfully hard to unring that bell. My guess is that this is going to be a longish sidebar.

Why? Explain pleeze – and mucho thanks!

old gold @ 8

So many allusions to hogs in the last week:
hog wash; pig in a poke; when pigs fly; and, lipstick on a pig.
For future reference here are some unused ones: as worthless as as tits on a boar; as independent as a hog on ice; as common as pig tracks; even a blind sow finds an acorn every once in a while; and, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear

don’t forget this one: the defense arguments are hogwash.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 13

Oops, Ari said “covert officer.” Gonna be awfully hard to unring that bell. My guess is that this is going to be a longish sidebar.

Why is “covert officer” significant?

old gold @
8

So many allusions to hogs in the last week:
hog wash; pig in a poke; when pigs fly; and, lipstick on a pig.
For future reference here are some unused ones: as worthless as as tits on a boar; as independent as a hog on ice; as common as pig tracks; even a blind sow finds an acorn every once in a while; and, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear

Only appropriate, given that we’re coming up on the Year of the Pig.

Fl Like a lot of things i said to the press it had no impact.

I think it was all the lying and non-answers, Ari.

B/Richmond @ 16

Christy Hardin Smith @ 13

Oops, Ari said “covert officer.” Gonna be awfully hard to unring that bell. My guess is that this is going to be a longish sidebar.

Why? Explain pleeze – and mucho thanks!

B/c he is being tried for perjury and not outing a NOC so they don’t want the jury to know her covert status.

P Your last day at the WH was when

Fl July 14, 2003

Fl The next I started my own business. Do you want to buy some Amway products?

Jane S. @ 21

B/Richmond @ 16

Christy Hardin Smith @ 13

Oops, Ari said “covert officer.” Gonna be awfully hard to unring that bell. My guess is that this is going to be a longish sidebar.

Why? Explain pleeze – and mucho thanks!

B/c he is being tried for perjury and not outing a NOC so they don’t want the jury to know her covert status.

Thanks.

Re covert officer questions:

Because it is a federal crime to knowingly “out” a covert officer. The crux of the matter, if you will. They were playing games with the life of a covert officer for political purposes. (Christy’s answer will be better…)

M.

Fl I never would have thought this was classified. never in my wildest dreams believed this involved, as I’ve read since, this involved a covert officer.

Sorry; didn’t he just state before lunch that Libby told him Plame’s name and CIA office of employment and said “hush hush”? It doesn’t take “wildest dreams” to make classified connection, you don’t just make an off-the-cuff decision to “spread”. Something stinks.

Idiot or Slime? Vote now on our new reality show…

There’s Arguments.disagreements of whether she’s actually covert- I think teh consensus is that she was in a classified position, translating from covert to ‘regular’ CIA…
If she was covert, it opens up the IIPA aspect-”did they knowingly out a covert agent”, if so that ups the ante considerably…

Great stuff at the link wrt President George W. Bush’s trip to Senegal, South Africa, Botswana, Uganda, Nigeria, July 7-12, 2003

audio-pics-speeches, etc.

Schedule
Senegal – July 8
South Africa – July 8-9
Botswana – July 10
Uganda – July 11
Nigeria – July 11-12

http://www-sul.stanford.edu/af…..p2003.html

Here’s a quote for the pigology, one that sadly references the spirit of politics:

“Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig.”

It sends frissons of -well- pleasure through my body to realize that this arrogant, lieing, goebbel-ian prick is in a position where he has to testify in fear of perjury. All those gaggles…the humanity…

steve @ 26

There’s Arguments.disagreements of whether she’s actually covert- I think teh consensus is that she was in a classified position, translating from covert to ‘regular’ CIA…
If she was covert, it opens up the IIPA aspect-”did they knowingly out a covert agent”, if so that ups the ante considerably…

I think because this trial is about perjury and obstruction, parameters were laid out about what could be said about Plame’s status. The defense lawyers are trying to keep out that Plame was a NOC b/c it might prejudice the jury that their client committed treason in addition to perjury.

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds — especially piggybacked onto the testimony that Craig Schmalls (the CIA briefer) gave on what he told both Libby and Cheney about the detrimental effects that outing a covert agent could have on that agent, her network and the assets that agent was running in the field.

Very interesting that Ari says he mentioned Plame (or, at least, “Wilson’s wife”) to John Dickerson, since Dickerson said Ari didn’t go that far — just suggesting that reporters look into who from the CIA sent Wilson.

Fitzmas @
22

P Your last day at the WH was when

Fl July 14, 2003

Fl The next I started my own business. Do you want to buy some Amway products?

Somehow, that “life coaching” thing didn’t work out, did it.

Here’s John Dickerson bloviating about the CIA leak investigation, hinting that he was an early Plame leakee, and complaining that he wasn’t called as a witness:

http://www.slate.com/id/2135554/

Why wasn’t Dickerson called? In part, perhaps, because Fitz didn’t want to tip everyone in the media to Ari’s deal.

Ari admits Scooter told him VP was CPD…so why wouldn’t it occur to him in his “wildest dreams” she could be covert?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 31

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds — especially piggybacked onto the testimony that Craig Schmalls (the CIA briefer) gave on what he told both Libby and Cheney about the detrimental effects that outing a covert agent could have on that agent, her network and the assets that agent was running in the field.

This won’t help defense with an appeal, will it?

Swopa @ 32

Very interesting that Ari says he mentioned Plame (or, at least, “Wilson’s wife”) to John Dickerson, since Dickerson said Ari didn’t go that far — just suggesting that reporters look into who from the CIA sent Wilson.

There must be signed orders, requisitions, air reservations, receipts. WIll they allow that out? Probably not.

We gotta get our VP’s straight. Sometimes it’s Darth ans sometimes it’s Mrs Wilson!

lobstakilla @ 35

Ari admits Scooter told him VP was CPD…so why wouldn’t it occur to him in his “wildest dreams” she could be covert?

lobstakilla @ 35

Ari admits Scooter told him VP was CPD…so why wouldn’t it occur to him in his “wildest dreams” she could be covert?

Because he said he didn’t know what CPD meant?

lobstakilla @ 35

Ari admits Scooter told him VP was CPD…so why wouldn’t it occur to him in his “wildest dreams” she could be covert?

The congenital lack of imagination that affects everyone in this Adminstration? No one could possibly conceive using airplanes as weapons. No one could possibly conceive that the levees might not hold?

Jane S. at 36 — Not likely. Judge Walton wil give a cuationary instruction and the defense counsel will have more than ample time to C/E Ari on the fact that he only read this in the papers and didn’thear it directly from Libby (unless, of course, he DID, in which case we’ll be having a REALLY long sidebar…)

The next day I started my own business in case anybody’s looking for a schmuck.

Darn , no inside scoop on any other aspects of the smear. I love that Fitz is keeping the case tight so he can win, but I would have liked a little extra. I guess his strategy is not to open the door for further testimony that he has regarding others. I remember Christy or LHP saying that on cross you can explore subjects brought up on direct, so I guess Fitz is keeping his secrets (at least for now) and guarding that testimony.

Sorry; didn’t he just state before lunch that Libby told him Plame’s name and CIA office of employment and said “hush hush”? It doesn’t take “wildest dreams” to make classified connection, you don’t just make an off-the-cuff decision to “spread”. Something stinks.

unlike Libby, who was initimately involved in National Security issues (including making visits to the CIA), there is no reason to assume that Ari understood the distinction that CPD represented in terms of classified employment.

As Ari explained in his earlier testimony, when he was told classified information, he was told that it was classified and he’d been cleared to know it. Because Libby didn’t say to Ari that Valerie’s position was classified, he had no reason to assume it was….

That being said, it remains difficult to believe that Ari had spent the weeks after the Novak article under a rock, and had no clue that Valerie’s “outing” had become controversial…..even if he wasn’t working in the WH any longer.

Nothing to add but wanted to say
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This is such a hoot. I’m having the time of my life! ac

“sidle” is nice.

So one day Scooter is telling Ari that Plame works in Counter-Proliferation, but that this information is “hush hush” and “on the QT” and the next day, after listening to Bartlett venting, he decides it’s no big deal to mention casually to three reporters because he’s now heard two SAOs talk about it?

Is he saying that when an SAO says “this is hush hush, superdoubleplusgood secret,” it means he’s supposed to tell the press about it as soon as he hears another SAO refer to the same info?

I find it hard to believe that Ari had no clue about Plame’s covert status when Libby discloses she’s with CPD. Hadn’t Ari “been around the block” at all???

lobstakilla @ 35

Ari admits Scooter told him VP was CPD…so why wouldn’t it occur to him in his “wildest dreams” she could be covert?

He thought she was Ms Moneypenny, rather than James Bond.

Christy Hardin Smith @
31

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds — especially piggybacked onto the testimony that Craig Schmalls (the CIA briefer) gave on what he told both Libby and Cheney about the detrimental effects that outing a covert agent could have on that agent, her network and the assets that agent was running in the field.

Thanks!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 31

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds..

That’s the point, isn’t it? They all can dance around the issue – but don’t you think the jurors are going to want to know about this? Isn’t it the Elephant in the room, no matter what the judge says? This information is out there – even if they don’t allow any witnesses to talk about it.

raven @ 38

We gotta get our VP’s straight. Sometimes it’s Darth ans sometimes it’s Mrs Wilson!

lobstakilla @ 35

Ari admits Scooter told him VP was CPD…so why wouldn’t it occur to him in his “wildest dreams” she could be covert?

Yeah I know, sorry, I realized how it looked right afterward.
I also missed if/where Ari said he didn’t know what CPD meant.

Just a reminder of what Rice said at that gaggle:

DR. RICE: The IAEA reported it I believe in March. But I will tell you that, for instance, on Ambassador Wilson’s going out to Niger, I learned of that when I was sitting on whatever TV show it was, because that mission was not known to anybody in the White House. And you should ask the Agency at what level it was known in the Agency.

Q When was that TV show, when you learned about it?

DR. RICE: A month ago, about a month ago.

Q Can I ask you about something else?

DR. RICE: Yes. Are you sure you’re through with this?

Can we google gaggle?

jeffreyw:
He thought she was Ms Moneypenny, rather than James Bond.

707!

Here’s the gaggle at the WH site.

[S.O.S. conjures up image of Senator Sam Ervin’s raised, bushy and wiggly eyebrows]

I guess if it’s the worst thing that happens today. . .no biggie!

lobstakilla @ 52

raven @ 38

We gotta get our VP’s straight. Sometimes it’s Darth ans sometimes it’s Mrs Wilson!

lobstakilla @ 35

Ari admits Scooter told him VP was CPD…so why wouldn’t it occur to him in his “wildest dreams” she could be covert?

Yeah I know, sorry, I realized how it looked right afterward.
I also missed if/where Ari said he didn’t know what CPD meant.

Any speculation, Swopa, on what Bartlett told Fitz and the grand jury? Does this blow his barn door down?

Re covert officer issue:

Fl I never would have thought this was classified. never in my wildest dreams believed this involved, as I’ve read since, this involved a covert officer.

My bold. Doesn’t the bold get him off the hook? Also, Plame has already left the CIA, so “covert officer” at this point in time doesn’t matter to the jury. No?

Who else was within ear shot when Bartlett vented out loud about Plame sending Wilson and her being CIA? B..Bu..?

My $0.02 speculation about Ari….He knew Plame was covert when Libby disclosed Plame’s CPD status. However, he’s just been asked to lunch for the first time ever by the #2 person in OVP. He takes his marching orders, helps out Plame thinking that the administration will “fix” things. When CIA yelps and a quasi-independent criminal investigation starts, Ari gets wet feet and wants to claim that he didn’t know what CPD stood for!

QuickSilver @ 59

Any speculation, Swopa, on what Bartlett told Fitz and the grand jury? Does this blow his barn door down?

Probably not. He was reading the same memo that Armitage read, and (unlike Armitage) talking to another WH official.

Marksb @ 25

Sorry; didn’t he just state before lunch that Libby told him Plame’s name and CIA office of employment and said “hush hush”? It doesn’t take “wildest dreams” to make classified connection, you don’t just make an off-the-cuff decision to “spread”. Something stinks.

I agree completely. Maybe this will get clarified in cross, but it seems that Ari wants us to believe that since Libby didn’t follow the usual “this is secret, don’t use” and instead just said “hush hush” , that he was completely ignorant of Plame’s status. I don’t buy it either. He’s asking us to believe that he’s some thick/dull yokel who don’t know nuthin about no secret agents. Please. I’m thinking Wells is going to be not very nice to Mr. F.

tillie630 @ 51

Christy Hardin Smith @ 31

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds..

That’s the point, isn’t it? They all can dance around the issue – but don’t you think the jurors are going to want to know about this? Isn’t it the Elephant in the room, no matter what the judge says? This information is out there – even if they don’t allow any witnesses to talk about it.

Goes simply to motive to lie, does it not?
_

CHS
(Or anybody else that can answer it)
Why does teh defense keep bringing up that the witnesses didn’t meet with them? Isn’t this the 2nd or 3rd time it’s come up?

If there some tactical advantage to them doing it? Strategic advantage? And if not, why keep doing it?

(and wouldn’t it be great if Ari answered ‘Well, you’re client Lying made me go out have to get a lawyer, cost me thousands of dolalrs, etc etc all so you can deny he did something we all know he did)

Name That Tune: “Something in the air”

A. Phil Collins
B. ABBA
C. Tom Petty
D. Thunderclap Newman
E. Canary in Cold Mind i.e Harri Flushers

Is there any evidence that the OVP requested the trip that Wilson made?

BobbyG @ 65

Goes simply to motive to lie, does it not?

I think Fitz crafted the case to define motive that is non-classified, in an effort to avoid the graymail issues raised by Libby’s defense…

John Eaton @ 68

Is there any evidence that the OVP requested the trip that Wilson made?

Interesting. Though counter-intuitive, it does go to the heart of their strategy to put out there vigoriously the opposite of what is true.

steve @ 66

CHS
(Or anybody else that can answer it)
Why does teh defense keep bringing up that the witnesses didn’t meet with them? Isn’t this the 2nd or 3rd time it’s come up?

If there some tactical advantage to them doing it? Strategic advantage? And if not, why keep doing it?

(and wouldn’t it be great if Ari answered ‘Well, you’re client Lying made me go out have to get a lawyer, cost me thousands of dolalrs, etc etc all so you can deny he did something we all know he did)

Christy will know better than I but I think that it is an effort to impeach the witness. You didn’t talk to us; you have something to hide. I wonder if they did talk to defense, does he not ask. He didn’t ask Martin so I am assuming that she cooperated. My husband is an attorney, I asked him (he is a former litigator who represented some white collar criminals) if the counsel of the witness would advise against it. He said that he wouldn’t have a problem with it.

Is it just me, or are the prosecution lawyers in the Plame-Wilson civil trial stockpiling ammunition as we speak?

I am curious, do you think Cathie Martin returned to work this afternoon after testifying?

And where do the Bush twins fit into this whole mess?

P Did you hear someone on AF1 make another reference to Wilson’s wife.

Fl Staff cabin, Dan Bartlett, Comm Dir, reading a different document. He said, “I can’t believe he or they are saying that the VP sent Amb Wilson to Niger, his wife sent him, she works at CIA. He said this in front of me.

P Would you characterize this as a conversation?

Fl Dan was venting. That became the second reference I learned, I overheard. I don’t recall who was there.

I call a little bit of bullshit on PJF, not in a bad way – but he’s making points for further prosecution, and cutting through later Grand Jury time and effort, by putting this on the record here, where it’s mostly irrelevant to the Scoots case.

lobstakilla @
35

Ari admits Scooter told him VP was CPD…so why wouldn’t it occur to him in his “wildest dreams” she could be covert?

yeah, that one hurt Ari’s credibility.

dqueue @ 69

BobbyG @ 65

Goes simply to motive to lie, does it not?

I think Fitz crafted the case to define motive that is non-classified, in an effort to avoid the graymail issues raised by Libby’s defense…

Yeah but now that it is out there, it certainly can’t hurt his case with the jurors in finding cause to lie.

Re my # 60:

Walton’s instructions to the jury:

Walton, In reference to the Witness’ testimony about what he read in the newspaper. That testimony is only relevant as it relates to his state of mind was. It has no relevance to this case. I don’t know based on what has been presented to me, what her status was. It’s totally irrelevant to this case.

John Eaton at 68 — Yes — during one of the briefings from the CIA, either at the VP’s morning briefing or during a CIA meeting at Langley that the Veep attended, there was a question posed by the Veep about finding evidence and/or information on any attempts of Iraq to purchase yellowcake in Niger or elsewhere in Afica. That, as I understand it, was the genesis of the need to find an answer for Cheney…and the subsequent set-up of the trip. Cathie Martin testified briefly about that, as did Grenier, as I recall from last week. The DoD and also the Dept. of State asked questions about tis issue as well, but there were definitely questions that came from the VP’s office on it.

He’s asking us to believe that he’s some thick/dull yokel who don’t know nuthin about no secret agents..

But wasn’t Ari a loaner in 2000 from some other campaign? I seem to remember he was working for someone else, ended up going to work for the GWB campaign, ended up as PS. So why i don’t think he’s a dull yokel, it’s also possible that he wasn’t an ‘old hand’. Maybe the Scooter’s, Wolfowitz’s, etc, who’s spent all their careers on teh fringes of the DOD, CIA, NSA, etc might know offhand what CPD was, and the classified aspects of that…
But it’s entirely possible that Ari wasn’t evil, just stupid…

John Eaton at 68: the story is that the OVP went back to the CIA and said, is there a problem with this yellowcake intel? So the CIA sent Wilson to Niger to check it out. OVP claims that they didn’t know that CIA had responded to its inquiry by sending Wilson to Niger, and that OVP never got a copy of Wilson’s report. Schmall’s testimony suggested that in fact the OVP DID get a copy of the Wilson’s report back in 2002, but it wasn’t clear. It would in fact be odd if the CIA sent Wilson to Niger in response to an inquiry by OVP, and then never told OVP the results of the trip.

I too find this “oops” testimony hard to believe. Is Ari blinking at all. Does he have on a straight face?

John Eaton @ 68

Is there any evidence that the OVP requested the trip that Wilson made?

Yes! Matter of fact there is in the defense exhibits:

Via defense exhibit 421

“Cheney had read the 12 June Pinkus article, which claimed the ambassador’s trip was done at the request of theVice President. Cheney did not recall this at all. He also couldn’t recall if he had requested a memo on this issue. Research revealed that Cheney did ask and received a memo in early 2002. The agents had copies of some faxes I had sent (in June) to Scooter Libby’s then chief of staff, ERic Edelman, containing an early 2002 and an early 2003 memo on the Iraq/Niger/Uranium issue doen for Cheney and Rumsfeld, respectively. I was asked serveral times by Cheney and LIbby during this time frame if I knew anything about such a trip. I had not been infomred of the trip, nor had any notes or memos done by the DI mentioning the trip — so I pleaded ignorance to the principals. I told the FBI that I first heard about trip was around the Novak article was published from _______ who relayed what she had heard from the DDCI.

I mentioned also to the agents that LIbby was in charge within the administration (or at least the White House side) for producing papers arguing the case for Iraqi WMD and ties between Iraq and al-Qa’ida, which explains LIbby’s and the Vice President’s interest in the Iraq/Niger/Uranium case.

This is from Craig Schmall’s e-mail after first being questioned by the FBI.

Something In The Air was a UK #1 single for three weeks in July 1969 for Thunderclap Newman.

It was in “The Magic Christian” and was played when the businessmen in bowlers and briefcases waded into the pool of shit and blood to fish out money. . .hmm is that relevant to this case?? Seems so!

beaugus kridderz @ 67

Name That Tune: “Something in the air”

A. Phil Collins
B. ABBA
C. Tom Petty
D. Thunderclap Newman
E. Canary in Cold Mind i.e Harri Flushers

“Plame” pronunced plah-may? unliklely. Plamet or Plamait or Plamais, sure.

dqueue @ 69

BobbyG @ 65

Goes simply to motive to lie, does it not?

I think Fitz crafted the case to define motive that is non-classified, in an effort to avoid the graymail issues raised by Libby’s defense…

Agreed, but, it’s implictly out there in the ether among the jurors (and the public at large). No gettin’ around it. When you’re having to subjectively give weight to someone’s cred, the huge implication that these dudes were playin’ around fast and loose with someone’s radioactive status is ineradicable.

Like commanding “Don’t dare even think about about Cheney’s snarl.” Impossible, once stated.
_

litigatormom @ 47

So one day Scooter is telling Ari that Plame works in Counter-Proliferation, but that this information is “hush hush” and “on the QT” and the next day, after listening to Bartlett venting, he decides it’s no big deal to mention casually to three reporters because he’s now heard two SAOs talk about it?

Is he saying that when an SAO says “this is hush hush, superdoubleplusgood secret,” it means he’s supposed to tell the press about it as soon as he hears another SAO refer to the same info?

In this administration, it would not surprise me at all to see a mindset of “well, everyone seems to know about it, so it can’t be that secret.” They certainly didn’t seem to have any appreciation of why you don’t casually pass around classified information internally, even if you’re a Really Important Person. Maybe in addition to the remedial ethics training they supposedly got a while back, they could all be strapped in and forced to watch the WWII Private Snafu cartoon about how loose lips sink ships.

J Did you have a gaggle.

Fl Dr Rice came to the back. I believe that Dr Rice came to the back of the airplane prior to Bartlett said that.

So! Bartlett says Wilson’s wife sent him, and Condi walks to the back of the plane and says “And you should ask the Agency at what level it was known in the Agency.”

She’s something else.

It’s disorienting to see Ari Fleischer answer this many qustions in a row without dodging, weaving, fogging or lying. Bizarre indeed!

LOL! Me too, Pach — I keep expecting Ari to say, “Now David, you know it’s our policy not to comment on an ongoing investigation.”

Btw, Dickerson is upstairs in the court room, everyone wants to know why this is different than what he reported.

And why he was dumb enough to show up at the courtroom the day he was going to be exposed. ;)

Unless this is really Ari’s attempt to bail out Libby by claiming (like Scooter) to have leaked when he really didn’t!

punaise @ 83

“Plame” pronunced plah-may? unliklely. Plamet or Plamait or Plamais, sure.

Perhaps he wasn’t sure about the pronounciation because he registered for his wedding gifts at “Tar-zhay.”

Christy Hardin Smith @ 77

John Eaton at 68 — Yes — during one of the briefings from the CIA, either at the VP’s morning briefing or during a CIA meeting at Langley that the Veep attended, there was a question posed by the Veep about finding evidence and/or information on any attempts of Iraq to purchase yellowcake in Niger or elsewhere in Afica. That, as I understand it, was the genesis of the need to find an answer for Cheney…and the subsequent set-up of the trip. Cathie Martin testified briefly about that, as did Grenier, as I recall from last week. The DoD and also the Dept. of State asked questions about tis issue as well, but there were definitely questions that came from the VP’s office on it.

So, it seems they sent the wrong guy. A Toady was desperately needed for that investigative trip to Niger. If only Wilson were a Toady – he was perfect for the job – all that Niger experience and connections. It would have been a slam dunk.

P Coverage about Africa, what it had hoped for?

Fl Whole trip mired in controversy

Just like that.

BTW-

“Hi” to our NSA surveillers. Your idiot coward megalomaniac boss still sucks.
_

CPD=Chicago police dept.Cheney’s a cop?More pigspeak-it’s like giving champagne to a pig

BobbyG @ 92

BTW-

“Hi” to our NSA surveillers. Your idiot coward megalomaniac boss still sucks.
_

Oh, they probably know that better than anyone else already.

BobbyG is such an introvert – sigh.

Richmond @ 75

Yeah but now that it is out there, it certainly can’t hurt his case with the jurors in finding cause to lie.

BobbyG @ 84

…
When you’re having to subjectively give weight to someone’s cred, the huge implication that these dudes were playin’ around fast and loose with someone’s radioactive status is ineradicable.

Like commanding “Don’t dare even think about about Cheney’s snarl.” Impossible, once stated.

Definitely, a good point by both. Was Fitz planning on this? I don’t know. Libby’s defense worked hard to keep it irrelevant to the charges at hand. I presume it’s going to raise, at least, some yellow flags with the jury, especially since it’s coming up via multiple witnesses. Oopsie.

Ummmm, OK, I’m finding some of Ari’s testimoney a little hard to fathom. Right after the Plame Affair hit the airwaves, Rice was on all of the talkingheads programs on a Sunday and looked mucho tense. There was all kinds of wild speculation that whoever leaked the name was in big trouble. But for some reason, Ari doesn’t get nervous until September? Between July and September he is not nervous at all. He pays no attention to the media talking about this case. He just goes on vacation and doesn’t even think about it until September?
Does that seem a little far fetched? If Rice was visibly nervous at the beginning, why wasn’t Ari? Is it possible he’s a bit dense?

What’s the nugget? This other thing? What’s he holding back? This is fantastic! Finally, a witness with a memory.

Perhaps he wasn’t sure about the pronounciation because he registered for his wedding gifts at “Tar-zhay.”

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 77

John Eaton at 68 — Yes — during one of the briefings from the CIA, either at the VP’s morning briefing or during a CIA meeting at Langley that the Veep attended, there was a question posed by the Veep about finding evidence and/or information on any attempts of Iraq to purchase yellowcake in Niger or elsewhere in Afica. That, as I understand it, was the genesis of the need to find an answer for Cheney…and the subsequent set-up of the trip. Cathie Martin testified briefly about that, as did Grenier, as I recall from last week. The DoD and also the Dept. of State asked questions about tis issue as well, but there were definitely questions that came from the VP’s office on it.

Yeah, it’s a classic Bush Administration lie — loudly claim that the VP’s office wasn’t responsible for Wilson’s trip as disinformation against the fact that it was in response to their request for information, and nobody ever said they were responsible for sending him.

From Wilson’s op-ed:

In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake — a form of lightly processed ore — by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990’s. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.

What BobbyG says.

Also, on June 10, 2003, in a response to Grossman about his questions to the INR about whether there was a trip involving an ambassador and did they send him, there is this in Defense Exhibit 71

Tab 4: CIA Account of Ambassador Wilson’s Trip Findings: “WP/Nuclear Weapons: Nigerian Denial of Uranium Yellowcake Sales to Rogue States”

The contents of Tab 4 are also included in this defense exhibit from the first day of trial! Check them out. I believe this is proof that they knew about the trip, and they knew they knew even if they chose to have forgotten!

All exhbits — prosecution and defense both are found here.

I’m waiting to find out what that “other event” was that Ari referred to. Anybody know? Guesses?

Do we know how Bartlett came to know about Plame?

Fl Rice was asked if she could declassify this information. Show us the reason why.

I’m *still* waiting for someone to show me how the Veep can de-classify – especially without the consent of the agency involved.

That’s one that’s been let sail through way too easily, imo

On Ari, I can’t remember the timing on this, but didn’t he change his POV after lunch (now more hesitant on the covert business? After someone spoke with him perhaps.

J The first newspaper story that came out with her name in it was Novak’s column. It had had her name as Plame. If you had read that, it would be natural you might mispronounce. Some might pronounce Plamay and some Plame?

Wild speculation, but I wonder if that’s the reason why Judy Miller’s notes had ‘Valerie Flame’: ‘Plame as in flame’, not ‘Plam as in… um, Plam-ay’?

If I were writing it as a play, I’d be afraid I’m telegraphing the “nugget” and “other thing” way too much. I get the sense he’s baiting Wells. Is it an area he’s afraid to get into?

portia.vz @97 asks about Ari:

Is it possible he’s a bit dense?

My initial reaction is: is it possible that he’s not dense? This is, after all, a man who served in the Bush White House.

Also, what struck me above was Rice in Africa saying to the reporters (on the 16 words etc): “Are you sure your done with this subject.” It is like she had prepared to reveal a particular prepared statement on this, and they weren’t asking the key follow up questions.

Christy Hardin Smith @
31

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds — especially piggybacked onto the testimony that Craig Schmalls (the CIA briefer) gave on what he told both Libby and Cheney about the detrimental effects that outing a covert agent could have on that agent, her network and the assets that agent was running in the field.

And so by this slip, it seems obvious that they all DID know she was a covert agent?

jayt @
105

I’m *still* waiting for someone to show me how the Veep can de-classify – especially without the consent of the agency involved.

That’s one that’s been let sail through way too easily, imo

Bush altered an executive order in March 2003 (interesting date, no?) and it’s that which Cheney cited when claiming he had authority to declassify.

Christie H-S
Ah .. for whatever reason, the light bulb has {finally} come on.

Cheney inquires about Niger buying the cake, CIA sets up trip. HOWEVER, limited number of people to send, hmmmmm?

So in fact Cheney did know a certain pool of people to be sent but has decided to dispell any knowledge it was in fact Wilson?

OR did Cheney through a meeting with Tenet at some point know it was already WILSON and has decided to play ‘dumb’ and play the public [and for that matter, the entire WHIG group of idiots]?

Zeppo @ 9

Remember, McClellan is the one that said Rove and Libby had nothing to do with the leak. A bald face lie. And SOMEONE or SOMEONES had to tell him to knowingly lie. It may not be evidence but it speaks to the credibility of those at the top involved.

nice!

jayt @ 95

BobbyG is such an introvert – sigh.

Yeah, LOL, my “privacy horse” is SO outa the barn. Why, I’m even doin’ the (faintly ridiculous for my incipient geriatric ass) MySpace thingy now.
_

Ummm… “Nuclear football guy”? That’s the terminology? I haven’t heard that one before.

Re the CPD (operatives) vs. WINPAC (analysts) distinction:

At some point this will have to be explained to the jury, IMO, because Judy Miller’s notes from her date(s) with Libby say that Libby told her Plame worked for WINPAC:

In her account, Miller made clear that while she could not recall if Libby had ever identified Wilson’s wife by name, he did in fact tell her in a two-hour breakfast meeting on July 8, 2003—six days before columnist Novak disclosed to the world Plame’s name and her role as an operative at the agency—that Wilson’s wife worked at WINPAC, which stands for Weapons Intelligence, Non-Proliferation and Arms Control, a CIA unit that tracks unconventional weapons. Miller testified that she assumed that meant Wilson’s wife worked as an analyst, not as an undercover operative.

http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..13,00.html

This is Pach on EW’s comp:

We’re in a bit of a break. It’s really hot in here so EW stepped out to the hall for some fresh air.

Lots of hot air here in the media room. . .

So now Wells is trying to make Ari look like he was sandbagging Bartlett by not telling him that “the wife” sent Wilson to Niger?

Even though Wells has tried to get every witness to agree that “the wife” aspect was unimportant? Even though Libby’s whole defense is that “the wife” was so unimportant that he plumb forgot that he told Ari about it BEFORE he learned about it from Timmeh?

zeppo @ 117

Ummm… “Nuclear football guy”? That’s the terminology? I haven’t heard that one before.

God these guys are A-Hs. Like starting nuclear war is simply a fumble. God spare us soon.

Richmond @ 109

Also, what struck me above was Rice in Africa saying to the reporters (on the 16 words etc): “Are you sure your done with this subject.” It is like she had prepared to reveal a particular prepared statement on this, and they weren’t asking the key follow up questions.

I’ve always believed that the press did Rice a big favor by changing the subject. She really wanted to push this issue. She’s the one who brought Wilson into the gaggle and she changed the subject from the IAEA to him in order to do so.

I’d really like to know if she was lying about the fact that she learned of Wilson’s trip on George Stephanopoulos’ show. I find it hard to believe that her assistant, Hadley, was digging around to find out about Wilson’s trip in May, when Kristof’s column went to press, but that Rice didn’t know anything about it until Stephanopoulos asked her about it on June 8.

Ari is pretty amazing witness. He is so practiced at fielding questions, he hsas very little confusion about where the question is leading and he’s good clarifying his answer so his next is not a trap.

While I’m enjoying Fitz and Jeffress questioning Ari, I’m REALLY hoping we get to see “a Dick in a box.”

BobbyG @ 116

jayt @ 95

BobbyG is such an introvert – sigh.

Yeah, LOL, my “privacy horse” is SO outa the barn. Why, I’m even doin’ the (faintly ridiculous for my incipient geriatric ass) MySpace thingy now.
_

Dude, I got a feelin’ that *all* of our ‘privacy horses’ are out of the barn.

So be it.

Thanks Pach — thus far, it sounds as thought Wells has backed things down a couple of notches. Does it seem that way in person in terms of his courtroom demeanor?

litigatormom @ 120

So now Wells is trying to make Ari look like he was sandbagging Bartlett by not telling him that “the wife” sent Wilson to Niger?

Even though Wells has tried to get every witness to agree that “the wife” aspect was unimportant? Even though Libby’s whole defense is that “the wife” was so unimportant that he plumb forgot that he told Ari about it BEFORE he learned about it from Timmeh?

Pach here: Jeffress is doing the questioning. I have not decided exactly where he’s going. Really, since they did not interview Ari before this time on the stand, I think they’re fishing as best they can, looking for a slip on recollection to impeach his credibility.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 118

Re the CPD (operatives) vs. WINPAC (analysts) distinction:

At some point this will have to be explained to the jury, IMO, because Judy Miller’s notes from her date(s) with Libby say that Libby told her Plame worked for WINPAC:

In her account, Miller made clear that while she could not recall if Libby had ever identified Wilson’s wife by name, he did in fact tell her in a two-hour breakfast meeting on July 8, 2003—six days before columnist Novak disclosed to the world Plame’s name and her role as an operative at the agency—that Wilson’s wife worked at WINPAC, which stands for Weapons Intelligence, Non-Proliferation and Arms Control, a CIA unit that tracks unconventional weapons. Miller testified that she assumed that meant Wilson’s wife worked as an analyst, not as an undercover operative.

http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..13,00.html

Is WINPAC subsumed by CPD?

Kim @ 104

On the flight to Africa an official at the CIA e-mailed/faxed a report/memo(?)at Powell’s request to AF1 This is the document that had a mark in the margin to indicate Valerie Plame’s secret status. I don’t remember the exact wording but they all were aware of what it meant.

6 miles @113 – I like your plan A (Cheney sought someone in CIA, but didn’t nec know the name. Remember Africa doesn’t matter to them (except here to start war in Iraq).

Dover B – good points

Pach @ 119 “Lots of hot air here in the media room. . . “

Is Shuster one of those guys that wants EVERYONE to know when he gets a phone call. For god’s sakes, put it on vibrate.

Since you’re dishing, who are the top three blowhards?

Off topic – from Juan Williams interview earlier today with W, from Williams’s talk of the nation segment – essentially, W stated he feels very strongly he has the authority to make war on Iran without any further involvement of the U.S. Congress./

On Topic – Am I incorrect in thinking Fleischer is on the stand mostly for where this case might lead beyond Libby, rather than mostly re the Libby trial itself?

Pach here: Wells was a bit. . . scatty?. . . this morning. Seemed always to be shuffling papers, half phrasing then restarting his questions. The Cathie Martin cross seemd not to do anything of substance, and the inference they wanted to create for the jury was torpedoed fast by Fitz on redirect.

He basically showed she was not in the loop on lots of press strategy going on in OVP, thought Wells was trying to use her lack of knowledge of Plame press strategy, and lack of Plame in the talking points she created, to imply there was no interest in Plame.

Richmond @ 106

On Ari, I can’t remember the timing on this, but didn’t he change his POV after lunch (now more hesitant on the covert business? After someone spoke with him perhaps.

Great observation which reminds us … Please
DON’T FEED THE TROLLS

Neil @ 129

Pach @ 119 “Lots of hot air here in the media room. . . “

Is Shuster one of those guys that wants EVERYONE to know when he gets a phone call. For god’s sakes, put it on vibrate.

Since you’re dishing, who are the top three blowhards?

Pach here: Not really anyone that I would put in that category, but then again, there’s not a whole lot of free flowing chatter: everyone is so focused on details and testimony. But I have not been in the media room much lately.

I’d better get back upstairs. Laterz!

Christy Hardin Smith says:

January 29th, 2007 at 11:03 am

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds — especially piggybacked onto the testimony that Craig Schmalls (the CIA briefer) gave on what he told both Libby and Cheney about the detrimental effects that outing a covert agent could have on that agent, her network and the assets that agent was running in the field.

*

I don’t get that, Redd.

Doesn’t Plame’s NOC status go to motive — the great big 800-lb gorilla in the room motive — for Irving to commit perjury & obstruction? That these dimwits KNEW they where outing a NOC & did it anyway, and then Libby lied & obstructed in an attempt to cover it up & protect Cheney & the WH?

Why would Fitz accede to being constrained on on weaving Plame’s NOC status into explaining Irving’s motive?

Anyone interested in a friendly wager that it will be a much longer break than 10 minutes… sounds like the heat is being turned up in more than one way:>

emptywheel @ 132 “the inference they wanted to create for the jury was torpedoed fast by Fitz on redirect.”

Nice bit of lawyering that. FITZ!

The Pig will sing

a) How, could Judy [sleeping with Cheney] Miller not know that Plame was covert;
b) He was set up by Cheney and Libby to do their dirty work
c) that greater than 15 of the original diabolical 22 WHIGS are no longer with the Administration over their sloppiness as identified above on classified material ..

:) fabulous.

Richmond @ 121

zeppo @ 117

Ummm… “Nuclear football guy”? That’s the terminology? I haven’t heard that one before.

God these guys are A-Hs. Like starting nuclear war is simply a fumble. God spare us soon.

It IS called the nuclear football. He gave the guy’s title, then said, “he’s the guy who carries the nuclear football.”

emptywheel @ 119

This is Pach on EW’s comp:

We’re in a bit of a break. It’s really hot in here so EW stepped out to the hall for some fresh air.

Lots of hot air here in the media room. . .

ahhh, slipped out for a beer and a smoke, did she? well-deserved! you guys so rock this — hello to all TradMed! THIS is how it’s done….

Ed*ard Teller @ 131

Off topic – from Juan Williams interview earlier today with W, from Williams’s talk of the nation segment – essentially, W stated he feels very strongly he has the authority to make war on Iran without any further involvement of the U.S. Congress./

On Topic – Am I incorrect in thinking Fleischer is on the stand mostly for where this case might lead beyond Libby, rather than mostly re the Libby trial itself?

If W means Bush, and he was willing to talk with Juan on NPR, it means just how much NPR has declined in terms of “fair and balanced” of late and how “trustable” it now is to the Admin. Ditto for Juan.

hackworth @ 90:
So, it seems they sent the wrong guy. A Toady was desperately needed for that investigative trip to Niger. If only Wilson were a Toady – he was perfect for the job – all that Niger experience and connections. It would have been a slam dunk.

The story was also discounted by the local US Ambassador to Niger, as well as by the local 4 star general for that region who looked into it. It was not just Wilson, although he’s apparently the only one who heard the SOTU and said basically “Hey wait a minute, if this is what I think it’s about then we are being lied to.”

Thing is, Libby and Cheney were trying to build a case for war, and everybody knew it, and so it’s possible they didn’t ever send information that ran contrary to the coolaid, because speaking truth to power would have been a CLM.

zeppo @ 116

Ummm… “Nuclear football guy”? That’s the terminology? I haven’t heard that one before.

Actually I have heard the term before. It’s a term many administrations have used. I don’t who started it, but it may have orginiated as the Secret Service code word for the nuclear suitcase.

Neil @ 129

Pach @ 119 “Lots of hot air here in the media room. . . “

Is Shuster one of those guys that wants EVERYONE to know when he gets a phone call. For god’s sakes, put it on vibrate.

Since you’re dishing, who are the top three blowhards?

Don’t forget — Pach is co-opted, to use his own words, by having to be nice to these people (hi people!!)

emptywheel @ 139

Richmond @ 121

zeppo @ 117

Ummm… “Nuclear football guy”? That’s the terminology? I haven’t heard that one before.

God these guys are A-Hs. Like starting nuclear war is simply a fumble. God spare us soon.

It IS called the nuclear football. He gave the guy’s title, then said, “he’s the guy who carries the nuclear football.”

Thanks. I’m curious who gave this item this title. A little like Reagan’s “peace maker missles.”

Dover Bitch @ 122

I’d really like to know if she was lying about the fact that she learned of Wilson’s trip on George Stephanopoulos’ show. I find it hard to believe that her assistant, Hadley, was digging around to find out about Wilson’s trip in May, when Kristof’s column went to press, but that Rice didn’t know anything about it until Stephanopoulos asked her about it on June 8.

I agree about the Hadley connection but then Condi really is extremely incompetent and clueless so you never know.

portia.vz @ 97

Ummmm, OK, I’m finding some of Ari’s testimoney a little hard to fathom. Right after the Plame Affair hit the airwaves, Rice was on all of the talkingheads programs on a Sunday and looked mucho tense. There was all kinds of wild speculation that whoever leaked the name was in big trouble. But for some reason, Ari doesn’t get nervous until September? Between July and September he is not nervous at all. He pays no attention to the media talking about this case. He just goes on vacation and doesn’t even think about it until September?
Does that seem a little far fetched? If Rice was visibly nervous at the beginning, why wasn’t Ari? Is it possible he’s a bit dense?

Ari is beginning to strike me as dense. I can’t help but recall his appearances on tv before the war talking about bombing like he had a heart of ice. It strikes me that his skull may not absorb a lot as well.

Why would Fitz accede to being constrained on on weaving Plame’s NOC status into explaining Irving’s motive?

while Fitz has ceded establishing the FACT that Valerie was covered by IIPA, he plans to argue that one of Libby’s motive’s for lying was based on his belief that Val’s job was/may have been classified information. (”state of mind” is what is critical in establishing motive, i.e not the facts themselves, but what the Defendant perceives the facts to be.) That’s why Fitz wants to get the 312’s admitted.

keep’emhungry @ 133

Richmond @ 106

On Ari, I can’t remember the timing on this, but didn’t he change his POV after lunch (now more hesitant on the covert business? After someone spoke with him perhaps.

Great observation which reminds us … Please
DON’T FEED THE TROLLS

Dammit – edit

If you’re impying that Richmond is a troll, you’re mistaken. If you’re not, then *I’m* mistaken.

Main point is valid however.

Ten minute break. This whole biulding is boiling hot. Here and the court room.

2:47

Scott Shane overheard singing in Men’s room:
Its gettin hot in here (so hot)
So take off all your clothes
I am gettin so hot,
I wanna take my clothes off
Ooow
Its gettin hot in here (so hot)
So take off all your clothes
I am gettin so hot,
I wanna take my clothes off

Richmond @ #141,

Yeah on both – Juan Williams interviewed Bush this morning. I’m not sure when the whole interview will play, but he discussed it for a 5-minute segment on TotN. A lot of softballs, but Bush was adamant about his perception he has all the authority he needs to make whatever war he deems necessary on Iran.

mui @ 147

portia.vz @ 97

Ummmm, OK, I’m finding some of Ari’s testimoney a little hard to fathom. Right after the Plame Affair hit the airwaves, Rice was on all of the talkingheads programs on a Sunday and looked mucho tense. There was all kinds of wild speculation that whoever leaked the name was in big trouble. But for some reason, Ari doesn’t get nervous until September? Between July and September he is not nervous at all. He pays no attention to the media talking about this case. He just goes on vacation and doesn’t even think about it until September?
Does that seem a little far fetched? If Rice was visibly nervous at the beginning, why wasn’t Ari? Is it possible he’s a bit dense?

Ari is beginning to strike me as dense. I can’t help but recall his appearances on tv before the war talking about bombing like he had a heart of ice. It strikes me that his skull may not absorb a lot as well.

I imagine if you lie all the time for a long period of time, it really messes up the hard wiring, and it is difficult to think without adding a subversion. After a while you begin to believe your own lies. (I bet there is scientific evidence for this!)

Hugh @ 145

Dover Bitch @ 122
I agree about the Hadley connection but then Condi really is extremely incompetent and clueless so you never know.

I think as as NSA or SOS, you are correct. But I also think she’s diabolically talented at dissembling. She would have made a terrific PS.

Redshift @ 100

Christy Hardin Smith @ 77

John Eaton at 68 — Yes — during one of the briefings from the CIA, either at the VP’s morning briefing or during a CIA meeting at Langley that the Veep attended, there was a question posed by the Veep about finding evidence and/or information on any attempts of Iraq to purchase yellowcake in Niger or elsewhere in Afica. That, as I understand it, was the genesis of the need to find an answer for Cheney…and the subsequent set-up of the trip. Cathie Martin testified briefly about that, as did Grenier, as I recall from last week. The DoD and also the Dept. of State asked questions about tis issue as well, but there were definitely questions that came from the VP’s office on it.

Yeah, it’s a classic Bush Administration lie — loudly claim that the VP’s office wasn’t responsible for Wilson’s trip as disinformation against the fact that it was in response to their request for information, and nobody ever said they were responsible for sending him.

From Wilson’s op-ed:

In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake — a form of lightly processed ore — by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990’s. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.

Here’s the document of the meeting asking Wilson to go: Tab 1 on defense exhibit 71

The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office Tab 1

um, the suitcase with the nuclear launcher is kinda shaped like a football. not lots of fotos of it, but you’ll know it next time you see it….

Dover Bitch @ 153

Hugh @ 145

Dover Bitch @ 122
I agree about the Hadley connection but then Condi really is extremely incompetent and clueless so you never know.

I think as as NSA or SOS, you are correct. But I also think she’s diabolically talented at dissembling. She would have made a terrific PS.

POS.

-GSD

Good one.

gosh, I can’t believe I’m wasting bandwith to contradict Marcy, but it’s called The Football period, no nuke-u-lar, just “the football”

Richmond -

(I bet there is scientific evidence for this!)

go to any of the myriad of fact based toobz sites for the 10 Major Personality Disorders – and you’ll find a motherlode of evidence

Ref: Richmond 145 “Nuclear Football”

The briefcase contains the authorization codes that the Pres would use to authorize release of nuclear weapons. The military officer who carries it was never referred to as the “nuclear football guy”; however, since well back to the 80s the briefcase was referred to as “the football.”

with a handle like zeppo, I thought you might be older. the nukular football is the case that a guy carries around with the “button” – ie launch codes for the Prez. ok, now I’m going to have those nightmares again.

Thanks for the info wrt “the nuclear football guy”. It just surprised me, as that term seems so…. frivilous for what it is actually referring to.

Like referring to Love Canal as “the kiddy playpool”.

Did I read it right? Did Condi really go to the back of the plane and pitch in on what questions the press should be asking in regards to Valerie Plame?

Richmond 152

Congnitive dissonance.

carries the nuclear football.”

Thanks. I’m curious who gave this item this title.

It’s smallish (bigger than a daytimer, smaller than a breifcase) and has all the nuke codes in it…And since you usally see the military aide carrying it around under his arm (if not cuffed to it) the nickname is kind of a no-brainer…

Jeffress seems to be focusing a lot of David Gregory. Even shows a photo of him. Will we be seeing his photo on the post office “Most Wanted” list soon?

I imagine if you lie all the time for a long period of time, it really messes up the hard wiring, and it is difficult to think without adding a subversion. After a while you begin to believe your own lies. (I bet there is scientific evidence for this!)

Ummm…. I’ve got an ex-wife who would be immensensely helpful in proving these theories.
She’s not scientific proof, but one hell of a little bundle of evidence!

The direct quote from Ari was the title, then, “he’s the guy who carries the nuclear football.”

Don’t beat up on me if it’s incorrect–I’m just the liveblogger.

TiredFed @ 160

with a handle like zeppo, I thought you might be older. the nukular football is the case that a guy carries around with the “button” – ie launch codes for the Prez. ok, now I’m going to have those nightmares again.

Older than what? Moses? Oh, I know full well what it was referring to, but like I said earlier, I was surprised at the term.

You wanna swap Grouchoism? Probably not the correct forum, tho.

zeppo @ 161

Thanks for the info wrt “the nuclear football guy”. It just surprised me, as that term seems so…. frivilous for what it is actually referring to.

Like referring to Love Canal as “the kiddy playpool”.

Although it is usually handcuffed to the SS or whatever guy carrying it, I’ve heard it has a unique shape so it isn’t confused with other briefcases around the POTUS.

Liberal-at-large @ 135 Why would Fitz accede to being constrained on on weaving Plame’s NOC status into explaining Irving’s motive?

Bit by bit, piece by piece. Thus indctment is narrowly defined. All Fitz needs is what is necessary for a conviction here. If Fitz gets his conviction, we’ll see where it takes him.

Thanks everyone on the football. Of course – a brief case can take any number of forms, and this can be changed over time (from blue faux croc to patent leather, from rectangular to stream lined). Why it was given the shape of a football, not germaine here, but I can’t imagine it was to try to hide what it really was. Just a funny, strange tidbit in all this. Reminds me of Huizinga’s Homo Luden’s – play is VERY serious business.

emptywheel @
167

The direct quote from Ari was the title, then, “he’s the guy who carries the nuclear football.”

Don’t beat up on me if it’s incorrect–I’m just the liveblogger.

and one helluva liveblogger you are, feeding our need!!

Ref zeppo’s 160

Probably derived from the military black humor — other examples —

Old SAC motto “Peace is our profession.”
Nuclearr tipped missile — peacemaker
F-104 fighter (prone to crashes) — “widow maker”

emptywheel @ 167

Don’t beat up on me if it’s incorrect–I’m just the liveblogger.

marcy…you’re more in danger of being hugged to death than beat up on!

((((((((((((((((Marcy))))))))))))))

Thank you for your tireless efforts EW!

How do you folks sit for so long? My butt is beginning to numb out.

Gonna have to switch to the drafting table just to stand.

kristinejoy @ 163

Richmond 152

Congnitive dissonance.

Yes. You are right. And is Ari’s seeming style of speaking – short, jagged, abrupt, shifting – in keeping with this?

Edward @ 159

Ref: Richmond 145 “Nuclear Football”

The briefcase contains the authorization codes that the Pres would use to authorize release of nuclear weapons. The military officer who carries it was never referred to as the “nuclear football guy”; however, since well back to the 80s the briefcase was referred to as “the football.”

Am I the only one who is reminded of Dr. Strangelove?

That is the correct title for it – the briefcase with the nuclear launch codes follows the CnC wherever he goes. I assume it is referred to as a football because it is handed off to 3 guys on 8 hour shifts. Non-issue.

emptywheel @ 167

The direct quote from Ari was the title, then, “he’s the guy who carries the nuclear football.”

Don’t beat up on me if it’s incorrect–I’m just the liveblogger.

we got the ball, so let’s go let’s go
we got the ball, so …..let’s go!

The whole building is boiling hot? Hmmmmm, must be roast pork steamin’ all the way from the Nav*l Absurdity residence….

’cause if you haven’t read it, you gotta check out Froomkin–back and he brought his A game…

Unraveling U-No-Whooooooooooo

6 Miles from Ovalus Corruptous @ 138

The Pig will sing

a) How, could Judy [sleeping with Cheney] Miller not know that Plame was covert;
b) He was set up by Cheney and Libby to do their dirty work
c) that greater than 15 of the original diabolical 22 WHIGS are no longer with the Administration over their sloppiness as identified above on classified material ..

:) fabulous.

Which Cheney was she fucking,Dick,lynn or Mary?

Don’t beat up on me if it’s incorrect–I’m just the liveblogger

Empty -
should have done this before trial started -

allow me now to go on record with request for pre emptive apology for any of the stupid ass/malinformed shit that shows up here under my name.

you are doing the Lord’s work gal – and I have a dirty house, starving family/cat, and dearth of clean laundry to prove it !:)

Seems like WaPo got it right:


Fleischer Tells Jury That Libby Told Him About Plame

Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer told a jury today that Vice President Cheney’s former chief of staff was the first person to disclose the identity of an undercover CIA officer to him in July 2003. Valerie Plame’s identity was revealed in the press days later.

Wordsmith @ 176

How do you folks sit for so long? My butt is beginning to numb out.

Gonna have to switch to the drafting table just to stand.

You need this: Ergopod 500, Surf the Internet in Bed.

TeddySanFran @ 172

emptywheel @
167

The direct quote from Ari was the title, then, “he’s the guy who carries the nuclear football.”

Don’t beat up on me if it’s incorrect–I’m just the liveblogger.

and one helluva liveblogger you are, feeding our need!!

Please, PLEASE EW – I wasn’t beating up on you. You are brilliant with this. But I was commenting on a government system that would call the nuclear code book container a “football.” Sounds like the beginning of an (old style) Woodie Allen movie, complete with cheer leaders in short skirts humping the key players.

TiredFed @
160

ok, now I’m going to have those nightmares again.

What’s your best one? And how close were you before you woke?

the term goes back to the 60s IIRC (yes, I’m that old).

Nuclear football.

Richmond @
37

Swopa @ 32

Very interesting that Ari says he mentioned Plame (or, at least, “Wilson’s wife”) to John Dickerson, since Dickerson said Ari didn’t go that far — just suggesting that reporters look into who from the CIA sent Wilson.

There must be signed orders, requisitions, air reservations, receipts. WIll they allow that out? Probably not.

IIRC, Ambassador Wilson went on his own money, pro bono. It looked like a visit to old friends/colleagues. It was ideal cover and also the action of a good citizen. Therefore, no tracks.

And think of this: further discussion of Mrs Wilson’s status may prejudice further court cases or allow defense to prepare for the trial of someone who is not involved in this case. So Wells may be fishing for infor o help his *next* client.

Richmond:

Yes. He doesn’t want to talk about why, or reconstruct his motivations. Too painful, perhaps? Just enough of a dilemma to cause cognitive dissonance….one of the most misused terms in psychology, IMHO.

A tiny bit of housekeeping: this post is currently tagged as Uncategorized and should probably be Libby Live-Blog. Fixing it will ease the job of those who later go back to try to piece together the story.

Boy, am I REALLY sorry that I asked about that nookular football thing.

My humble apologies to all.

Now, let me get back to revitalizing my precious bodily fluids…..

He basically showed she was not in the loop on lots of press strategy going on in OVP, thought Wells was trying to use her lack of knowledge of Plame press strategy, and lack of Plame in the talking points she created, to imply there was no interest in Plame.

Wells seemingly created the opportunity for Fitz to leave the jury, after redirect, with a very clear impression that Cathie Martin was in charge of the official media strategy vs. Amb. Wilson while Scooter and Cheney handled the dirty work. I don’t think that was his intention.

Und zen, see, we’ll use zee missle silohs for underground survival camps. Of course, all of us vill be included. And zee women, they will be the most biologically correct specimens…

Amazon sent me an email this morning notifying me they are shipping my order,which includes one copy of Anatomy of Deceit: How the Bush Administration Used the Media to Sell the War and Smear a Critic, tomorrow. Now, I’ll have an excuse to ignore my responsibiliites from 5 PM EST when court recesses until 9 AM EST when the jury comes back from their steak and egg breakfast.

Any chance Marcy is up for a Book Salon thread after all the evididence is heard and while the Jury is deliberating?

IIRC, Ambassador Wilson went on his own money, pro bono. It looked like a visit to old friends/colleagues. It was ideal cover and also the action of a good citizen. Therefore, no tracks.

the government paid his expenses, but Wilson was not paid for his services. IIRC Wilson travelled officially as an envoy of the state department, and told all of his contacts that he was gathering info for the government…he had “no cover”

Christy & Jane – FDL loading verrryyyyyy slowly this pm. I just kicked in some $$$ (paypal). Use it towards bandwidth, DC, or whatever else you need. Thanks for all the great work by the entire FDL Community!

hackworth @ 90

Christy Hardin Smith @ 77

John Eaton at 68 — Yes — during one of the briefings from the CIA, either at the VP’s morning briefing or during a CIA meeting at Langley that the Veep attended, there was a question posed by the Veep about finding evidence and/or information on any attempts of Iraq to purchase yellowcake in Niger or elsewhere in Afica. That, as I understand it, was the genesis of the need to find an answer for Cheney…and the subsequent set-up of the trip. Cathie Martin testified briefly about that, as did Grenier, as I recall from last week. The DoD and also the Dept. of State asked questions about tis issue as well, but there were definitely questions that came from the VP’s office on it.

So, it seems they sent the wrong guy. A Toady was desperately needed for that investigative trip to Niger. If only Wilson were a Toady – he was perfect for the job – all that Niger experience and connections. It would have been a slam dunk.

Exactly BushCo M.O. Recall Rice’s congressional testimony concerning Richard Clarke’s book: “Mr Clarke seems to think he was more important than he was…” Rice is too much of an idiot to pull that shit off.

p.lukasiak @ 197

IIRC, Ambassador Wilson went on his own money, pro bono. It looked like a visit to old friends/colleagues. It was ideal cover and also the action of a good citizen. Therefore, no tracks.

the government paid his expenses, but Wilson was not paid for his services. IIRC Wilson travelled officially as an envoy of the state department, and told all of his contacts that he was gathering info for the government…he had “no cover”

This sounds more like it.

Interesting how Jeffress asked Ari is ‘one other person was in ‘ear shot’ of Bartlett’s venting instead of asking, was ‘one other person “there” (Bush) Ari can’t attest to the former but probably could to the latter.

hackworth @ 178
No, it is very Dr. Strangelovish. It’s really creepy thinking some guy in Chimpy’s entourage clutching a nukular suitcase to his chest to be used at Chimpy’s “discretion.”

hahaha. tomorrow is Dick Cheney’s birthday! Happy Birthday, Dick, from Scooter and Ari!

Excellent coverage, Marcy. Thank you very much for your work here.

clueless at 198:

I suspect the DOS villians are at it again – like last week.

Fleischer: yessir, there was something in the air that spring.

He really likes saying that, doesn’t he.

zeppo @ 117
Ummm… “Nuclear football guy”? That’s the terminology? I haven’t heard that one before.
————
Richmond @ 121
God these guys are A-Hs. Like starting nuclear war is simply a fumble. God spare us soon.
————
emptywheel @ 139
It IS called the nuclear football. He gave the guy’s title, then said, “he’s the guy who carries the nuclear football.”
————
Richmond @145
Thanks. I’m curious who gave this item this title. A little like Reagan’s “peace maker missles.”

Did Fleischer play football in college?

[Mod Note; Please be careful with the zigs, no more than two nested quotes.]

Wow, this “10 minute break” is taking on Grateful Dead proportions (”Will the crowd make room for the narcan delivery so the band can resume playing? Thanks for you patience and cooperation.”).

hackworth @
178

Edward @ 159

Ref: Richmond 145 “Nuclear Football”

The briefcase contains the authorization codes that the Pres would use to authorize release of nuclear weapons. The military officer who carries it was never referred to as the “nuclear football guy”; however, since well back to the 80s the briefcase was referred to as “the football.”

Am I the only one who is reminded of Dr. Strangelove?

Every time I see Dick Cheney, I think just that, though it is always difficult for a producer or director to contemplate a re-make of one of the greatest films of all time….

cbl @
183

and I have a dirty house, starving family/cat, and dearth of clean laundry to prove it !:)

Dearth Evader

Sparkles the Iguana @
206

Fleischer: yessir, there was something in the air that spring.

He really likes saying that, doesn’t he.

Twas the season of Treason…

mui @ 202

hackworth @ 178
No, it is very Dr. Strangelovish. It’s really creepy thinking some guy in Chimpy’s entourage clutching a nukular suitcase to his chest to be used at Chimpy’s “discretion.”

I’m sure the rest of the world sees a similar metaphor.

clueless @ 198 Christy & Jane – FDL loading verrryyyyyy slowly this pm. I just kicked in some $$$ (paypal). Use it towards bandwidth, DC, or whatever else you need. Thanks for all the great work by the entire FDL Community!

Most likely a result of DOS attack or servers being hammered by refresh – CPU and NIC congestion.

Richmond @ 200

p.lukasiak @ 197

IIRC, Ambassador Wilson went on his own money, pro bono. It looked like a visit to old friends/colleagues. It was ideal cover and also the action of a good citizen. Therefore, no tracks.

the government paid his expenses, but Wilson was not paid for his services. IIRC Wilson travelled officially as an envoy of the state department, and told all of his contacts that he was gathering info for the government…he had “no cover”

This sounds more like it.

He didn’t need a cover IMHO. Niger is a small country and everyone knows everyone anyway, & he knew Niger officials and they knew him, or at least that’s the impression I got from joe Wilson’s book.

It’s really creepy thinking some guy in Chimpy’s entourage clutching a nukular suitcase to his chest to be used at Chimpy’s “discretion.”

Every president does this, just like they have a pohtog with them in case they keel over and die.

TiredFed @ 203

hahaha. tomorrow is Dick Cheney’s birthday! Happy Birthday, Dick, from Scooter and Ari!

The evil side of Aquarius.

Mine is Wednesday, the good side of Aquarius. ( Sorta)
Lol.

cbl @ 183

Don’t beat up on me if it’s incorrect–I’m just the liveblogger

you are doing the Lord’s work gal – and I have a dirty house, starving family/cat, and dearth of clean laundry to prove it !:)

(holds hand up)
Guilty as charged. The housework is going to have to wait, FDL’s liveblogging from Prettyman!

-S

p.s. I can just buy more clean underwear, can’t I?

…maybe he (flushers i.e. something in the air) was earning extra money writing for Phil Collins instedd of locking helmets on the nuclear gridiron during school

Check out these hit rates here at the lake. LINK

Btw, we’re in a sidebar.

punaise @ 210

cbl @
183

and I have a dirty house, starving family/cat, and dearth of clean laundry to prove it !:)

Dearth Evader

Pour a can of tuna on your chest, call the cat over, and be done with it.

In referring to Dick Cheney, Bush claims Cheney is a “glass is half-full” kind of guy.

Seeing that the last thing in the world Dick Cheney would appear to be is an optimist just what is the glass half full of:

1) Scotch and water

2) Blood and Iron

3) Vi*gra and P*xil

4) Shattered lives and flowing blood

5) Shit

-GSD

Btw, we’re in a sidebar.

double gray goose apple, shaken not stirred please

Fitzmas @ 73

I am curious, do you think Cathie Martin returned to work this afternoon after testifying?

And where do the Bush twins fit into this whole mess?

I think Cathie Martin went to get some spa treatments and rejuvenate. And exfoliate.

(The Bush twins did the same, even though they are not following the trial at all.)

joe @ 215

It’s really creepy thinking some guy in Chimpy’s entourage clutching a nukular suitcase to his chest to be used at Chimpy’s “discretion.”

Every president does this, just like they have a pohtog with them in case they keel over and die.

I’ve heard, but don’t get me cussing the Supreme Court now.

Strategerie @ 217

p.s. I can just buy more clean underwear, can’t I?

be charitable and pick up a few pair for Libby.

I received EW’s book today & someone asked on the previous thread my date of order. Answer 1/15. Mine came from Amazon’s warehouse in Lexington, KY. I’m about 40 minutes south of Lex.- so I guess that’s why I have mine already.

Upstairs;

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…../#comments

Re: Slow loading….

I came back from the kitchen and it wasn’t loading at all. It’s sad…..I was about into full panic mode.

For your listening pleasure, this dedication to Attys Wells and Jeffress from Firedogs everywhere.

Welcome Mr Sting and the Police!

Thought you might like this one, Christy.

Going back to when Fl used the word “covert.”

Isn’t that word pretty significant. There’s a big difference in telling who she was being unauthorized release of classified info versus outing her as a covert agent. I think the penalty for the latter is much greater than the former.

Regardless of Scooter’s outcome — someone out there is still guilty of outing a covert agent. And if that’s Cheney isn’t that an impeachable offense?

..TeddySanFran @ 184

Seems like WaPo got it right:


Fleischer Tells Jury That Libby Told Him About Plame

Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer told a jury today that Vice President Cheney’s former chief of staff was the first person to disclose the identity of an undercover CIA officer to him in July 2003. Valerie Plame’s identity was revealed in the press days later.

Froomkin today:

“Fleischer’s testimony is critical to Fitzgerald’s case: as the prosecutor laid out this week in his opening statement, Fleischer has said that Libby told him over a White House lunch on July 7, 2003, that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA and made a point of describing this information as ‘hush and hush.’ Fitzgerald used that account to undercut Libby’s grand-jury assertion that he was surprised and ‘taken aback’ just three or four days later when, he claims, Russert told him about Wilson’s wife. ‘You can’t learn something startling on Thursday that you’re giving out Monday and Tuesday of the same week,’ Fitzgerald said.”

Game, set, ma…?

J Did you and Bartlett have a discussion about reaching out to reporters. We talked about that CBS report. We should find out who else is writing this story. I said we should get this out to everyone we talk to about Tenet.

Fl I called Pincus at WaPo, I think I called someone at NYT. I can’t recall what Bartlett did.

J Is it a fact that you and Bartlett agreed to contact several print and media journalists. Ari NYT and Wapo and Bartlett the Sunday talk shows.

[. . .]

J Did you tell Pincus that Wilson’s wife worked at CIA.

Fl nossir. I would have remembered it if it happened.

(*sound of Swopa’s head exploding*)

It must have been Bartlett who leaked to Pincus, then.

punaise @ 225

be charitable and pick up a few pair for Libby.

Ah, he must have loving ladies to do that, e.g. the wife, Judy Miller, (any other takers among the ladies?)

Please forgive OT. Hoping it’s o.k. since Marcy’s currently continuing on new thread upstairs.

Breaking sad news for horseyfolk:
Barbaro is gone. Euthanized today.
Details at Huff.Po.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..NlYwNtdHM-

p.lukasiak says:

January 29th, 2007 at 12:01 pm

Thanks!

Oh-oh; it’s happening again.

Shit! I got the day off

I recall I said to these reporters, If you want to know who sent Amb Wilson to Niger, it was his wife, she works there. Tamara Lippert Newsweek, David Gregory and John Dickerson, Time Magazine.

So THIS is where the whole “Plame sent Wilson” originated.

Can someone please help me clarify something (and I think this is a very important point that doesn’t seem to be highlighted)?

My understanding is this:

1 – VP’s office sends a request to the CIA to look more closely into the matter.

2 – The meeting at the CIA discussing the issue, which Plame was not present at, it was mentioned that Plame’s Husband, Wilson might be a good candidate to go

3 – CIA asks, informally, of Plame if her husband would be willing to go. Plame passes on the request to Wilson.

Thus we see how:
1. Wilson would say Cheney sent him.
2. VP’s office would deny sending “him.”
3. Why Ari would say that “His wife sent him.”

This has always driven me nutz.

Fl I recall one the day before, after Dr Rice “shivved” Tenet, I filled him in, knowing the press would start calling him. I called him to let him know what Dr. Rice said. On July 12, did I talk to Harlow? I don’t recall.

Ari actually said, ’shivved’?

Thanks again FDL for providing this incredible blog.

Ref:

Simp”s 238

… that’s the only time line that makes sense.

lina @ 205

clueless at 198:

I suspect the DOS villians are at it again – like last week.

That’s OK – I still wanted to give some $$$ to FDL, whatever the use. The slow load just gave me an excuse to do it NOW!

Wordsmith @ 176

How do you folks sit for so long? My butt is beginning to numb out.

Gonna have to switch to the drafting table just to stand.

Hmmm….do you also go by the name Donald Rumsfeld?

Rummy work(ed) standing up, dontcha know.

Jane S. @ 127

Is WINPAC subsumed by CPD?

I don’t know, sorry.

steeelthing @ 239

Thanks again FDL for providing this incredible blog.

And thanks again steeelthing, for being a major FDL angel. All Americans are in your debt, especially those of us reading here.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 244

Jane S. @ 127

Is WINPAC subsumed by CPD?

I don’t know, sorry.

No. Winpac is the analysis counterpart to CPD (which is in operations).

>It’s disorienting to see Ari Fleischer answer this many qustions in a row without dodging, weaving, fogging or lying. Bizarre indeed!

See what happens when you put ‘em under oath.
Cheney, Rove, and Novak next, please.

zeppo @ 117 “Nuclear football guy” –
The “nuclear football” is actually a briefcase containing all the top secret codes for launching nuclear attacks. For obvious reasons, it is always kept only a few steps away from the President, even when he travels on Air Force One. It is carried by a military aide (Fleischer’s “football guy”). In fact, the aide is probably handcuffed to it for security purposes, hence holding it like a football is probably the most comfortable way to carry it.

Richmond @ 106

Dammit – edit

If you’re impying that Richmond is a troll, you’re mistaken. If you’re not, then *I’m* mistaken.

not at all implying that Richmond is a troll. sorry if I offended. I am learning so much here (thank you to all!) that I worry that others are too. There is no precedent for this type of thing … I guess I’m just a worrier.

tillie630 @
51

Christy Hardin Smith @ 31

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds..

That’s the point, isn’t it? They all can dance around the issue – but don’t you think the jurors are going to want to know about this? Isn’t it the Elephant in the room, no matter what the judge says? This information is out there – even if they don’t allow any witnesses to talk about it.

Could defense use this as grounds for a mistrial?

Bob in HI

Pax et Bonum @ 28

Here’s a quote for the pigology, one that sadly references the spirit of politics:

“Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig.”

But in this case the “pig in the poke” has been taught to sing! :-)

Amazing what those Irish accordion players can do!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 31

Rich at 18 — Because Judge Walton already ruled on pretrial motions that Valerie Plame Wilson’s status is not relevent to the charges for which Libby was indicted — obstruction, false statements, and perjury. Its outside the scope of the charges. But having it come out of the mouth of the witness unasked, it’s going tobe hard for the jury to put that fact out of their minds — especially piggybacked onto the testimony that Craig Schmalls (the CIA briefer) gave on what he told both Libby and Cheney about the detrimental effects that outing a covert agent could have on that agent, her network and the assets that agent was running in the field.

As Walton said the statement can only go to the state of mind of this witness (and I imagine others). It might seem to a juror that if Fleisher drew the conclusion that Plame was “covert” that others with even more information may have had reason to CONCEAL their leak or (rather than ask for immunity) obstruct the search for justice.

As they always say in those TV dramas…”Goes to motive, yer honor!”

But I can also see that Ari’s testimony might raise issues as to whether it might be reasonably construed that those who were aware of Plame’s status in the Counter-Proliferation Division (i.e. those more familiar with National Security issues) would reasonably have inferred that Plame was COVERT or in a highly protected classified status.

pseudonymous in nc @
107

J The first newspaper story that came out with her name in it was Novak’s column. It had had her name as Plame. If you had read that, it would be natural you might mispronounce. Some might pronounce Plamay and some Plame?

Wild speculation, but I wonder if that’s the reason why Judy Miller’s notes had ‘Valerie Flame’: ‘Plame as in flame’, not ‘Plam� as in… um, Plam-ay’?

I’m only at 107 so far, but the most logical conclusion to draw from the mispronunciation “Plamay” is that he heard someone pronounce it like that. But, who? Someone oughta ask him.

Bob in HI

Jane S. @ 127

Sparkles the Iguana @ 118

Re the CPD (operatives) vs. WINPAC (analysts) distinction:

At some point this will have to be explained to the jury, IMO, because Judy Miller’s notes from her date(s) with Libby say that Libby told her Plame worked for WINPAC:

In her account, Miller made clear that while she could not recall if Libby had ever identified Wilson’s wife by name, he did in fact tell her in a two-hour breakfast meeting on July 8, 2003—six days before columnist Novak disclosed to the world Plame’s name and her role as an operative at the agency—that Wilson’s wife worked at WINPAC, which stands for Weapons Intelligence, Non-Proliferation and Arms Control, a CIA unit that tracks unconventional weapons. Miller testified that she assumed that meant Wilson’s wife worked as an analyst, not as an undercover operative.

http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..13,00.html

Is WINPAC subsumed by CPD?

No, very different animals. On occassion the CPD (which is in the Directorate of Operations) will acquire FIELD INTELLIGENCE that would be passed on in reports to WINPAC.

But the Directorate of Intelligence is not involved in Field Collection of Intelligence. They evaluate it, integrate it with other data, and make judgments regarding validity.
THEY ARE ANALYTICAL.

The Directorate of Operations are th “spooks”…those that make contact with sources in the field, spy, or are involved in operations that interrupt or infiltrate the activities of “bad guys”.

The COUNTER-Proliferation Division would be involved in gathering the raw information on WMD’s, particularly as they relate to the spread of nukes, biological and chemical weaponry to rogue nations and terrorists. They would also be involved in Operations to stop the flow of materials or information to these groups, working sometimes with other Operations groups of allied foreign powers.

The interception of the boat of centrifuge and other highly tooled machine parts from Malaysia, via Pakistan, to Libya was a CPD operation.

The two Divisions may interact, usually by meetings or at the behest of the Director CIA or other Sr. CIA Officers. For example, after Cheney told his CIA briefer that the CIA needed to look further into the reports of 500 tons of yellowcake that were rumored to have been sold by Niger to Iraq, the briefer requested that the CPD and WINPAC provide more specific info. that might verify this. Both Divisions thought that the agency could obtain more info. if the Agency sent someone with contacts in govt at the time of the reported “deal”.

Here is where I get a bit confused, though. I think that in WINPAC there are non-CIA analysts as well. There are folks in it from the INR (State Department Intelligence)…so it’s somewhat of a multi-agency group.

Someone in the CPD requested that Plame approach her husband to undertake a mission similar to one he had done in 1999, where he was sent to Niger to investigate another rumor that IRANIAN officials had contacted Nigerien Gov’t Officials about obtaining “yellowcake”. On that occassion Wilson actually established an actual contact. In addition he discovered that PAKISTAN had also approached Niger about smuggling in Uranium. So apparently, Wilson, and his sources had some level of credibility with people in the CPD and CIA analysts in WINPAC.

Wilson was escorted to his “meeting” by Plame (who didn’t stick around…but a second-hand INR report said she “convened” the meeting). There seems to have been some fairly Senior folks in the Directorate of Operations, there, such as the head of Africa Operations, perhaps McLaughlin, and several WINSPAC representatives.

At Wilson’s briefing/interview there was debate and discussion about the benefit of the mission with the INR folks in WINPAC stating that Wilson’s trip would be redundant (with what the State Department could already find out from Nigerien officials), and because the Nigeriens would likely be unlikely to reveal information if they were themselves involved, or conversely would want to curry favor with the US and say what they felt the US Administration might want to hear.

Basically it was agreed that Wilson would go, and meet his contacts from PREVIOUS NIGERIEN GOVERNMENTS, but only (at Wilson’s request…obviously a man unwilling to step on diplomats toes) if the US Ambassador in Niger agreed.

So while WINSPAC interacts with the CPD the latter is by no stretch of the imagination a subordinate to the analytical wing. The CPD is very much under the auspices of the Directorate of Operations.

BTW Given that Plame was the one to actually INITIATE the first mission by he husband back in 1999, some have speculated that means that she was either involved in CPD interdiction or intelligence gathering in either IRAN or PAKISTAN.

Muzzy @ 201

Interesting how Jeffress asked Ari is ‘one other person was in ‘ear shot’ of Bartlett’s venting instead of asking, was ‘one other person “there” (Bush) Ari can’t attest to the former but probably could to the latter.

Yes, exactly who was sitting in the cabin within earshot of Bartlett’s shout?

Bush, Rice (who then goes and says to reporters that they should look into who sent Wilson), and others?

Dickerson has posted his observations from the trail for Monday here:

http://www.slate.com/id/2158157/entry/2158492/

He says Ari did not tell him that Wilson’s wife worked at CIA and that he learned it from Matt Cooper later in the day. Reputedly Matt learned it from Karl Rove–this would fit nicely into the Libby contention that he is being set up…or not.

In any case, I think that Dickerson will be called by the defense since he has come up in testimony and may be able to bolster the defenses theory that Libby is being setup…which doesn’t, however, explain why memory lapse was the earlier defense…oops.