
As a lawyer, your most valuable commodity in terms of courtroom and professional currency is your reputation for honesty, integrity and sticking to the agreed upon rules and the law, whatever the stakes of your case at bar. This morning, that question came running headlong like an oncoming train into the legal team representing Scooter Libby.
To set the scene, prior to the testimony of Craig Schmall, the CIA briefer for Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby, there had been a series of hearings and motions filed by the government, led by Patrick Fitzgerald, and Libby's legal team, primarily led in these matters by John Cline and Ted Wells, over the last few months preceding the trial. Judge Walton heard arguments on these matters under the CIPA rules and regulations, and then issued orders and memoranda laying out the procedures by which any of this information — relating to highly classified national security documents and intelligence — could be admitted, if at all, in the course of these legal proceedings.
In order to introduce the "memory defense" that Libby's legal team wants to use to defend Libby — the "my difficult job made me lie and forget" defense — Mr. Libby himself will have to take the stand because it is ultimately his memories which are at issue in terms of his state of mind and his alleged falsehoods to the FBI and the grand jury. During Mr. Schmall's testimony, the Libby defense team is trying to slip that memory defense and the national security information which has already been ruled, in part, to be very limitedly admissible, if at all, into the minds of the jury through a back door and a completely unrelated witness.
In effect, as prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald argued this morning, to "bootstrap" the evidence and the arguments into the case.
I can certainly understand wanting to defend your client with every legal weapon in your arsenal. I can also understand feeling constrained in terms of your defense because national security considerations require you to be circumspect in how you can or cannot introduce certain evidence into the trial proceedings. But the CIPA hearings in this matter occurred over a series of weeks, months even, and the Libby legal team has had quite some time ot work out their witness questions and other strategies to overcome this obstacle.
In fact, Judge Walton has bent over backward in a number of his rulings, pressing the government repeatedly for more expansive summary information to be provided as evidence for the jury's consideration — so much so that Fitzgerald and his team, and attorneys from the CIA had to start from scratch and re-draft and re-redact documents in order to fulfill the judge's orders.
To pull this sort of stunt during trial is a slap at the authority of the court and its very detailed, very specific orders — and the judge's very careful and thorough consideration of the defendant's rights to this very closely guarded, very difficult to obtain information regarding some highly classified national security matters. Judge Walton was clearly not happy, but was still leaning toward a ruling that left the information somewhat on the table for Team Libby until Wells could not stop himself from "gilding the lily" — Wells started arguing that CIA witnesses "should not be believed" because of their biases toward the Vice President's office, and that he should be able to argue that to the jury based on Schmall's briefing notes. Judge Walton informed Libby's legal team that he would not permit an argument on a memory defense at closing absent testimony from Libby, because otherwise the memory defense was not relevant to the proceedings…and that ended the argument, and the judge agreed to issue a terse cautionary instruction on the CIPA information and questions that Mr. Cline had asked, and we went on to the next legal argument.
Which was a mistake for Libby's legal team.
Ted Wells, lead trial counsel for Libby, completely overstepped in making an argument regarding some handwritten notes of the government's witness, Cathie Martin. Libby's trial team had been given copies of these notes a year or more ago, but just got around to asking to see the originals of the notes this past Saturday. Wells was arguing that the copies given by the government were illegible (Fitzgerald countered that they were not and that, were there problems reading any pages, Wells' team had had a year to notify the government and request a better copy, and had failed to do so until last Saturday). Wells then argued that they had not had enough time to read the notes, due to the number of documents which needed review — Wells made a big deal about the sheer volume of documents.
Huge error.
As it turned out, the sum total of all of Cathie Martin's handwritten notes in their original form totaled less than an inch of paper, most of which were not relevant to the proceedings at all. Those documents which corresponded with the government's intended exhibit proffer were a grand total of six pages. In making an argument which was built on a foundation of very hot air, Wells lost credibility with the judge, with the government, and worse for his client, with those in the media and public gallery.
In a town where reputation and power is everything, Libby's entire legal team was diminished in a matter of minutes with this one, petty, groundless and unnecessary stunt.
All of these arguments were done outside the view and hearing of the jury, which was sequestered in the jury room at the time the motions took place. So there is no question that this misstep has prejudiced the jury in any way, since they will not hear of it from any of the members of the court. But, in all honesty, irritating a Federal judge this early in a high profile trial by stating something completely unfounded and conflating a tiny misstep (that likely was a result of some lack of preparation issue on the part of some segment of Libby's trial team) is a huge error.
And the entire episode led to Judge Walton saying this on the record in open court about Patrick Fitzgerald: you are "one of the most scrupulous prosecutors I have ever had appear before me," in response to the judge having to deal with the, by comparison, unnecessary conduct that Wells pulled over Cathie Martin's notes.
Watching this occur from the gallery was painful, even for someone like myself who is hoping for a government win in this trial — because you could see the train coming for miles as this got going, and Wells built his trial persona up and up into a conflated opinion argument before the judge, only to have reality crash in on top. I sat watching, feeling this need to scream out, "Stop, you are going too far." but you just do not do so from the gallery of a federal courtroom while the judge is in session. And so all any of us in the audience could do was watch.
This sort of hubris, after sitting through the opening hour and a half of testimony from Cathie Martin, Vice President Cheney's former public relations assistant, is exactly what started this entire mess in the first place. And so much of the facts on this will continue to spill out in the days ahead. Before I left the courthouse today to catch my flight home, I heard that Ari Fleischer was also in the building. With Cathie Martin still on the stand, and Ari Fleischer standing in the wings, this trial promises to keep heating up in the days and weeks ahead.
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CHS!
Fitz!
Marvelous work. Thank you.
Oh, my — a zed?
Great analysis, Christy. Big-firm lawyers very often trip over their egos when they actually have to try a case as opposed to bargaining them away or (ideally) negotiating deferred prosecution agreements.
HI CHRISTY
Christy,
Thanks to you and Marcie for your amazing work. I can’t believe I am reading pretty darn good transcript summaries so quickly after the witnesses have testifed!
Fitz!
Christy!
Thanks Christy.
I’m trying to understand if the defense team is soley focused on their client or would they sacrifice him knowing he will be pardoned?
could someone clue this non-lawyer into what “giglio” means?
Marcy (actually Fitz and Wells) used it a lot at the end of the last thread.
I wonder if the bill-payers (Comstock, Mrs. Carville, Tucker’s dad, et al.) will be upset at this error on Wells’ part.
Although out of the jury’s earshot, do you think jurors will pick up on Walton’s displeasure at this stunt?
Indeed, thank you for all your hard work.
Shuster up
I’m just a giglio and everywhere I go…….
-GSD
I’ll miss you at the trial site. Do you have any plans to return?
Thanks so much for the commentary.
No one can Out-Fitz Fitz!!
Nothing quite like being an eyewitness to a train wreck,eh?
Popcorn anyone?
Christy!! Team FDL!!
Umm, train, rain, pain, his mama, jail or inadequate counsel?
raven @ 8
There’s no question that there will be many pardons, but the testimony is very damaging to the Administration anyway. It’s damaging to Republicans in general because they were so upset about Whitewater and hardly upset about this one.
Does anyone expect fresh indictments to come as a result of this Libby business?
There’s no question that there will be many pardons, but the testimony is very damaging to the Administration anyway. It’s damaging to Republicans in general because they were so upset about Whitewater and hardly upset about this one.
But this administration couldn’t give a shit less and Republicans are like rats jumping. . .well you know.
Tweety is on the case!
Wells likewise risks his credibility with the jury if he is not able to show, through evidence, animosity toward the OVP and Libby from the CIA and any evidence of the WH trying to scapegoat Libby as he promised in his opening.
Great bit of commenting here. I am not a lawyer, but I thought I caught this drift from the live blogging. You folks are a national asset. For her work over over the past several days, please give EW major kudos on the wonderful job she is doing.
You’ve got readers in Greece besides me.
Does anyone know whether Wells was ever an AUSA?I know a number of white-collar defense lawyers who were former AUSAs, and I can’t imagine any of them trying to pull anything like what Wells has tried to pull here.
raven @ 22
He repeatedly asks questions and then leaves no time for answers. Did it to Schuster again tonight. Talk about ego!!!!
EPU from Cathie 3: Giglio is a set of rules saying prosecutors have to turn over to the defense any info they have that can be used to impeach a prosecution witness, e.g. Fleischer.
http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/readingroom/agmemo.htm
Matthews is going to talk about “centrist Democrats”. What are they (cent. Demos) exactly?
I have been glued to the computer all day! You’re killing me, keep it up.
I know, it’s maddening, but then he says things that are really to the point. Argggggh
RevDeb @ 25
Is tomorrow an off day? As Ernie Banks said
“Let’s play two”
We have to wait until Monday for more explosions?
How much impact will this have, long run, without the jury to witness it?
Great job again on the liveblogging. I missed out again today because of work, damned work. Catch up time for this firepup.
David Shuster had another excellent piece on Hardball a few minutes ago. He was in a darkening blizzard waiting to say more but CM wouldn’t stop talking long enough for him to finish….ha! Matthews is being vindicated for some of the earliest claims and questions.
Thanks so much Christy (and EW). This is truly an historic event!
Welcome to all of the new people and the lurkers. We’ve got quite a community of brilliant people at the Lake.
While you visit, if you appreciate what you are getting from the fabulous Team FDL, please look in the upper right hand corner and toss some $$ this way. We regulars have pitched in quite a bit of money to help this happen, help finance Marcy’s book, and help fund the very overworked servers, but Jane has footed most of the bill.
While this is a true work of patriotism, it is not underwritten by any think tank, meida outlet (though they are certainly using this resource) or sugar daddy.
Again, welcome. And if you can, contribute.
Thank you.
Thanks, Redd and EW and the whole gang.
I’m getting the impression that Libby might do better to get off in a room with Fitz and cut himself a deal …
BC
Harold Ford likes the DLC on “Hardball”. Ford tells us that the DLC is responsible for ‘creating’ Progressives.
I detest the DLC.
Bay State Librul @ 31
Ernie used to say, It’s a beautiful day for baseball, Let’s play two.
He was my hero (I was a Cubs fan from the age of 10) until he came out and supported shrub. Sad.
RevDeb @ 34
Just for clarity, not the FAR upper right, correct? Also, there was a plea to click through the ads earlier today. Does FDL get some scratch if we got to Amazon through here?
thx
OfT: Milbank funny today on Biden’s longwindedness.
According to him, God isn’t through with Harold Ford Jr., but I sure as hell am.
-GSD
Amazon does toss FDL some coin when you click from here to there.
You guys are really doing tremendous work.
I once had a lawyer on the other side go well past the point of no return with a Federal Judge and receive an incredible beatdown.
Even though it was to my benefit, I still sort of cringed for the guy.
TeddySanFran @ 42
coolio
raven @ 40
The donate button. Yes it does get some scratch, but far from enough to run the engine beyond idle.
RevDeb @ 35
Longtime lurker here, fairly recent poster. Thanks, RevDeb, for your gentle push – I have just contributed to FDL. I believe in you all and the fine, fine work you are doing.
Given that Team Libby is supposed to have presumption of innocence on their side, a properly conducted trial is theirs to lose. I get the impression that they want to lose.
There is a struggle going on for the heart and soul of my party (the Dems).
Bullseye Christy! Wow, I completely missed this. Thank you.
Riveting analysis.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 28
You know, Republicans with bad pancake makeup.
CHS,
Awesome story of the story of the lawyer play at the meta level.
Will you guys post on the impact of the testimony and evidence today?
Many thanks. Regards to peanut.
Can I just give a shout-out to Judge Walton here?
From what I’ve seen so far, he seems to have gone out of his way to be fair in this trial, and he seemingly puts up with Team Libby’s shenanigans with great aplomb, and even compliments the prosecutor in open court! In fact when the lawyers are talking so fast that Marcy seems to have trouble keeping up, I often only know what they’re talking about because Judge Walton so eloquently restates the dispute in a common-sense manner.
Kudos to the judge, and I really hope that if the verdict is appealed, the Appellate Circuit will see that Walton really did all he could to ensure a fair trial.
Attaturk @ 44
Never feel sorry for an idiot who insists on proving his status.
BC
EvilDrP @ 48
Well, if you win, you can’t get a pardon. Or something like that. (Have they actually thought this through, or are they just going through the, um, motions?)
On the whole, I’d rather not have Walton mad at me.
369 votes.
New Ruling: Dem Jennings Moves Forward In Push For Congressional Seat Held By GOP’s Buchanan…
Democrat Christine Jennings has new reason to hope she may still be seated in the 110th Congress after a Florida court ruled in her favor yesterday, denying a motion that would have ended her appeal for a new election in Katherine Harris’s old district in Sarasota.
But the race — and Jennings’s legal case — is far from decided.
Her appeal is based on widespread complaints that electronic voting machines in Sarasota County failed to record thousands of votes in the race. The official count shows Jennings losing to her Republican opponent, Vern Buchanan, who has been sworn in provisionally, by 369 votes.
I love this! And I can’t quite help feeling a little subversive, almost like I’m listening in on the government, rather than the other way around, which has been the case for Christ knows how long. Thanks, Christie, emptywheel (good luck with your new book–probably couldn’t ask for a better temporal context within which to launch it. hmmm. coincidence? I don’t think so!). Get well quick, Jane. Fuck Libby, Rove, Cheney, and the motorcade they drove in on!
Is it time to go? I don’t want to go.
Thanks Christy,
Your ability to sort through the layers of intrigue in this case and report it to us non-legal types is remarkable and much appreciated.
Christy….
to me, the question is why did wells pull that stupid stunt about the Martin notes.
Now, i’ve gone through the indictment again, and I could find nothing that suggested that Martin would testify that she had told both Libby and Cheney about Valerie.
Could this have come as a surprise to Wells and Co? — and explain why they were so desperate to delay the trial that they pulled that crap?
(I’ve already posted it twice, but I think that Martin’s testimony—that she told Libby and Cheney about Valerie the day before Cheney told Libby that Valerie worked for the CPD is going to be extremely damaging — and its the only reason I can come up with that explains Well’s idiocy at that point in the trial)
Sorry Rev, Hillary’s ad takes you right to a donate page and I wanted to make sure no one got bamboozled!
Cub fan huh? Sweet Swingin Billy Williams, Pizza Ron Santo and of course the real voice of the Cubs, Jack Brickhouse!
thx
The donate button. Yes it does get some scratch, but far from enough to run the engine beyond idle.
viget @ 53
He compliments the prosecutor in open court because he is pissed off at the defense counsel’s shenanigans.
BC
They are going to do an update on the the trial on News Hour (Lehrer). We’ll see how PBS does with it.
I know Christy had to run, but does anyone else know if this incident was the one that prompted Judge Walton to exclaim that “if Libby didn’t testify it’d be suicide.”??? Seems like it was, but I just wanted to make sure.
I remember way back after the indictments first came down, Byron York had a piece on the Corner relaying impressions from a criminal lawyer friend of his that the case against Libby looked to be very strong, especially if the focus could be narrowed just to Scooter’s testimony and the issues around what-he-knew and when-he-knew-it.
Looks like Wells might have inadvertently helped to narrow things down. Not sounding very good for Scooter.
BTW: Great work all around by Marcy & Christy and the rest of the gang! Thanks so much.
P J Evans @ 55
A pardon comes with a price as well (loss of 5th Amendment immunity), and losing the criminal case can’t be a good thing for the civil case even if the conviction was later overturned on appeal. It seems to me, two days into the trial proper, that Team Libby can at best score an O.J. Simpson victory that destroys all public credibility of the participants. It’s hard to tell whether winning or losing would have the worse repercussions at this point.
RevDeb @
39
Kessinger, Beckert, to Banks…with Santo at 3rd.
I had the impression that Wells spent the day trying to run out the clock. I think they’re REALLY worried about Ari.
Christy,
So would I be right in thinking that the wire reporting coming off the transom over the past couple of days, which simplistically talks about the dodgy memories of witnesses, has swallowed Wells’ premature introduction of a generic ‘memory defence’ hook, line and sinker? (In which case, let’s hope that the jury is good at following instructions on avoiding press coverage.)
Or are they introducing a Libby-specific memory defence before he takes the stand? Or in lieu of his taking the stand, which, as Judge Walton rightly said, is a no-go?
Bargain Countertenor @ 62
That’s half of it. The other half is that Fitzgerald is, per his reputation, doing his best to present an unimpeachable case within the strict confines of procedure. If I were a judge, Fitz would be my pet too.
raven @ 61
Yes. Yes, and Yes. Brickhouse was such a gentleman and a great sportscaster. I could NEVER stand Harry Carey.
I cried the day Ken Hubbs’ plane went down and crashed. Santo’s pizza was OK but not great.
And no, I did not mean to have people click on Hillary. I haven’t done it myself! I’d rather give directly to FDL than infect my cookie cache with Hillary.
Once again, great work!
The main thing that struck me about “Miss Martin’s” (well, at least she wasn’t “the other wife” or “Miss Cathie”) testimony is the political undertow. She was obviously a trooper, neither happy about getting scapegoated nor happy to be on the stand for the prosecution, nor happy about the very likely result of her testifying for the prosecution. Even the glimpses of body language and expression that I got through the blog posts were vivid, as was her account of being picked out as an irresponsible leaker by a look from Steve Hadley while Scooter looked down. I don’t know what to make of it all, and I don’t think I have enough information to make anything concrete of it, but just this glimpse into the scheming and maneuvering at those levels is fascinating.
Tomorrow should be something else if not even Fitz knows what Ari’s going to say beyond the obvious (that he participated in the leak campaign). I suspect that we’ll get a lot more specifics about who wanted what leaked and who was going to do the leaking. Should be a more vivid picture than Cathie’s just because of Ari’s status and role.
The Administration’s obsession with the Wilsons is really creepy.
Frank Probst @ 67
He’d better not be planning to travel in light aircraft over the weekend.
Christy, thanks for your excellent and lawyerly view about what is going on.
And Marcy’s work is stellar and riveting.
p.lukasiak @ 60
And Martin’s ill-at-ease manner at points, casting of glances to someone(s) in the gallery, etc. Knowing what she was going to be testifying to here.
All this stuff coming from Libby directed toward Rove. Why didn’t Libby tell Fitzgerald about this before he (Libby) was indicted?
EvilDrPuma @ 65
A win-win for us patriots.
pseudonymous in nc @ 72
From the sidebar at the end:
Thanks for playing, Mr. Libby. There will be no lovely parting gifts.
totally rad
Hopefully Ari is through pissin himself long enough to dish more dirt monday.
Ms. Martin had a few clarifying moments today.
Let’s see what else we can find out about these nefarious MF’rs.
CHS, Cathie Martin flat out contradicts Cooper’s testimony about the conversation betweeen Libby and Cooper on July 12. Can she be charged with perjury?
Professor Foland @ 77
There will be for us.
EvilDrP @ 65
I understand what happens if Libby loses and gets a (still theoretical) pardon (and it might be a good idea for him to avoid light planes in that case). It’s what happens if they actually win that has me wondering. Not that they’ll do that, the way they’re playing so far.
James Robinson @
71
I think Fitz was saying that he had to offer Ari immunity initially before he would come and talk to the investigation, the grand jury, etc. But that’s all in the past, so Fitz knows what his testimony is now. It should still be very interesting, though. (And I believe we’re still on the four-day schedule for the trial, so it’ll be Monday before we hear from Ari.)
Linguistically, I think “backdoor” the evidence makes more sense than “bootstrap,” but if Fitz used “bootstrap” I guess you had to.
CHS – A point of clarification. Twice in your post you use the word “conflate.” I’m not sure I got exactly what arguments Wells was conflating – the CIA can’t be trusted with the “voluminous” notes? or the CIA can’t be trusted with the memory defense?
I agree on the disadvantages of conviction but in this case, perjury and obstruction isn’t also conviction of outing Ms (Agent)Mrs Plame Wilson….I never know how to say it. Don’t get me wrong, I think the entire sordid mess is a terrible attack on that family of dedicated Americans and I hope justice is found. I’d like to see the whole crew frogmarched.
The rationale for taking this case to ciurt doesn’t make sense. I’ve followed it, loudly, from the beginning and already the trial is worse for the BushCo admin and Libby than I expected. There has to be another reason buried somewhere. I still think it has evolved into an opportunity for the Cheneygang to assert and affirm extraordinary power they’ve claimed and been granted by Congress. I sure I hope I’m wrong on that but it would explain the ‘losing a battle but winning the war’ decision of taking this to trial.
Great job by everyone on covering the trail
Thanks keep up the good work
fdlblog @ 80
Is that the conversation that Wells kept emphasizing Martin missed part of, because she was on another call herself? If so, her distraction is her defense against perjury – she just didn’t hear the key moments – and that potentially lets the defense reduce it to Cooper’s and Libby’s accounts, with no corroboration. Plain old he-said he-said, which is about the best they can hope for here. Everybody’s confused, everybody forgets, who can say for sure?
Echoing viget @ 53, I commend Judge Walton for the way he is handling the jurors so far in this trial (although I pitied them for the public grilling they were each subjected to on the witness stand, pre-trial). It’s fantastic that Walton is letting them ask questions of the witnesses (through him), and he has clearly made careful provision for some creature comforts when the jury is on idle outside the courtroom, including providing ‘redacted’ newspapers for them to read, and providing them plenty of food and beverages.
This is a long, stressful haul for the jurors, and it’s easy for the Judge to overlook them when they are not in his presence, or when opposing counsel are going at it in front of him, but Judge Walton seems to be keeping them very much in mind.
RBG @ 66
Worse trade ever, June 15, 1964
Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio….
jack
EvilDrPuma @ 69
Well, yeah. Walton wouldn’t complete Fitz if Fitz was also pulling cheap lawyer tricks like Libby’s shower is doing.
BC
YEP
Dear Christy,
Your writing is so easy to read and understand that even I get what the big deal with Wells was.
It’s been a while since I’ve told you how fabulous you are. So consider this an offical (and belated) “You are fabulous!”
vachon
Nolan Ryan, et al, for Jim Fergosi.
Trial update now on NewsHour. Carol Leonnig from the WaPo.
They’re doing a crappy job.
With Cathie Martin’s testimony we are to believe that she could get national security classified information but Libby couldn’t. Libby has memory lost because he was so busy with the planning the invasion of Iraq, but he clearly remembered Tom Cruise visit and his son’s birthday let’s not forget the soccer game. Seems to me if the jurors give Libby a get out of jail card he’ll get his memory back and start working at the White House again as Bush makes plans to invade Iran next. Also I noticed that the White House used most of NBC journalist to spread the lies of the White House. Fox news, ABC or CBS get tricked or sucked in to the scam. Now we know NBC has the most watched and trusted journalist so by giving them the leak information like these journalist have national security access. I guess that means that all the other stations are working with the White House and NBC isn’t. No wonder NBC has more viewers.
I thought a ‘giglio’ is one of those structures they carry in an Italian religious procession. Usually has an effigy of the saint & sometimes there’s money & messages (prayers) attached.
So now the Libby defense is basically ‘I forgot’, ‘I’m being set up’ and ‘I misspoke’. Wonderful.
This site is incredible…totally riveting stuff…
Superb daily post-mortem work by Ms. Hardin-Smith…
Mebbe I can hire the FDL crew to assist me in my next big Canadian trial?….j/k
Man I can’t wait to hear what the Fleischman has to say and what kinda immunity deal he got…
fdlblog @ 80
no she doesn’t. What she said is that she heard no discussion of Valerie Wilson on Libby’s end of the conversation. Cooper’s testimony is that Libby confirmed what Rove had told him about Valerie working for the CIA and being involved in sending him on the trip. Libby didn’t need to discuss Valerie to confirm a story for Cooper. More critically, while Libby acknowledges that he did talk about Valerie and the CIA to Cooper, it was only within the context of “what he’d heard from other journalists”. Cooper said that never happened….and Martin’s testimony backed that up 100%
(in other words, please pay more attention or….
GO AWAY)
I can’t find this passage from Well’s. Do you have a reference?
Worse trade ever, June 15, 1964
Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio….
jack
OMG, some things we can never forget!
TeddySanFran @
11
et al includes Steve Forbes and Jack Kemp according to CNN on 1/15/07. No law requires disclosure of donors according to the article.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
This has been on my mind too. Speculation> RevDeb @ 10
YES and also a “Jenck” (sp) and “proffer” LHP we need you . . .
This is false. Cooper’s testimony is that Libby was the one who brought up Plame.
jbilger @ 96
No, no, no, it was a movie with Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck.
raven @
101
OMG, some things we can never forget!
Sorry, not the worse trade ever. Worse trade ever is …Manhattan for $24 worth of wampum. But I digress…that was another kind of sport, called Fuck the Indians.
FDL Blog wrote:
Dude, don’t screw with me. From the Libby Indictment
Oklahoma kiddo @ 97
All of which equals a great, big, whining, “It’s not my fault!!!” Can’t imagine that going over really well with the jury, but quien sabe.
Amazing work and thank you. I want to bring up what someone said the other day about Christy’s bio at Huffington Post, “former attorney.” I think we really need to get on her about that, for what she is doing here is as attorney as attorney can be. She is teaching, elucidating, and playing a big part in this incredible trial. She needs to change that bio and change the idea in her head, (especially since there is a huge theme about women as represented in the world here) , with all respect and admiration for what’s she’s doing for readers around the world, your lurking fdler.
If I recall correctly (IIRC), there was also a film with Richard Gere “American Giglio”.
I just wiki-ed this. Richard Gere’s middle name is Tiffany? What’s up with that? Not saying anything is wrong with that, I’m just surprised.
The Lopez-Affleck film was “Gigli,” NOT “Giglio.”
I just wiki-ed this. Richard Gere’s middle name is Tiffany? What’s up with that? Not saying anything is wrong with that, I’m just surprised.
that’s okay. Ben Affleck’s middle name is “Cubic Zirconium”
RevDeb @ 63
Since Ari wouldn’t confirm or deny that he washes his hands after using the WC (unless I granted him blanket immunity) we decided to watch The NewsHour here.
I thought Carol Leoning was was good with the question she was asked. I thought Jeffrey’s questions were less than inspired. The whole coverage was rather vague except for the defense surprise – Bush and Rove threw Libby under the bus – and the mischacterization of how Fitz is making his case.
Anybody else see it?
Christy, we’re not worthy! But don’t let that stop you!
And a HUGE thanks to the Peanut for sharing your fabulous, beautiful, smart and savvy mom with us.
fdlblog @ 80
She did nothing of the sort. I can see one reason why Wells was pushing her to say it was the 11th, however.
I can also see the benefit of TeamLibby trying to imply that, here and elsewhere.
Are you new here, fdlblog? Interesting handle, btw.
Shopgirlove @ 32
I see the Judge’s compliment to Fitzgerald as a backhanded warning to Wells. More like “……I’ve got your number buddy and not much more of this will fly.” I guess we’ll have to see whether Wells even caught it or whether he has any intentions of complying. If not this could get a lot nastier. Beating up on female witnesses, or trying to make them look inexperienced or incompetent in front of a jury with nine women doesn’t bode well for the defense either. Then again this is just the beginning of the prosecutions case and when it comes to juries there something to be said for that old adage about counting chickens.
fdlblog @
100
From EW’s liveblog, the “Cathie Martin, Part Two” thread, the very beginning of Wells’s cross:
W: do you recall the statement, “whether all the reporters know.” [Wells is asking a different question than the one Fitz asked]
Sidebar.
W Fitz asked you whether you heard anything about what “other reporters are saying.”
W You were not there for the whole conversation
M received a phone call from my press ecretary, did have it on beach, she could go back to the house.
W you were not present to overhear the entire conversation bc Millerwise called you during the call
M I was physically present, but on the phone for part of it
W You did not hear the entire conversation. You’ve been very clear about that. You made clear to the FBI that you did not overhear the entire call and you went to talk to Millerwise.
M I don’t specifically recall making that clear to FBI.
W when you say you did not hear Mr Libby that is just wrt the portion of his conversation with Cooper that you were present for. Common practice wrt what you should have been doing while Libby was having that call you would have been on a speaker phone or on another extension.
M if we were in Wh, yes.
W that wasn’t possible bc you were on a phone at Edwards AFB Just pure happenstance at very moment that you were listening to Libby’s conversation with Cooper but for that happenstance, you woul dhave been able to tell the jury what he said, you know he had never spoken to Cooper and you know that Libby was trying to get hom.
Whew! Finally caught up with all threads (not all comments, though).
One teensy proofreading question — instead of the word “conflate,” could you possibly mean “INFLATE”? Conflate = to meld 2 or more things together that normally wouldn’t/shouldn’t go together. That doesn’t make sense here — but “inflate” does make sense, at least to me. :-)
So many folks here have made great comments already about the sad state of the defense, and the train wreck of today’s events.
So let me point out something else — I absolutely LOVE the fact that we are getting a look at that slimy under-the-rock, creepy-crawly detail concerning how the White House works the refs (i.e., the press) — and how the press complies!
THAT is a big benefit coming from this trial, regardless of the verdict.
Of course it will be up to US to broadcast these slimy details (of how the VP’s office goes about “shaping thinking” etc).
You hardly think the PRESS will report these sordid matters as told in open court, do you???
BTW — I thought it a good omen that the night before the trial started, TCM broadcast “A Man for All Seasons,” about Thomas More and his unshakable integrity in the face of nasty (and ultimately fatal) threats coming from the most corrupt executive Henry VIII. — And for those raised Catholic (like Fitz), you’ll know that Thomas More is the patron saint of the legal profession, i.e. SAINT Thomas More, martyred for refusing to lie and thereby betray his own values/beliefs.
Just last night, another good omen (or at least a good thing to have viewed by teevee watchers across the nation) — AMC started replaying that nail-biter flick on Watergate, “All the President’s Men.” It’ll be repeating a few more times during the month, I think.
neil @ 113
Yeah, I had the same thoughts. They really didn’t get into the meat of the testimony very well. They have a few weeks to get into the story, so maybe they will improve.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 93
Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas et. al.
Wouldn’t it be so cool if Fitzgerald went into private law before the civil trial and the Wilsons could hire him as their attorney???
Terry Olson @ 121
I just heard Scooters sphincter pucker……
And in Other News… is available upstairs.
Lol, Say that 3 times fast.
I think tweety (am) has it wrong, it really wasn’t the OVP that sent Wilson. And so it’s actually not surprising they were all trying to get that out, as an explanation for why they supposedly also never saw any report back from the cia debunking the Niger story from wilson’s viewpoint. That ~may~ all be true, even if they tripped over the line by outing Plame in the process.
What intrigues me more is how mushroom clouds became part of the sell job even after Niger was pulled from the Cinci speech. It’s almost as if the decision about how to sell the war was one taken way above the naiive heads of people like Martin.
Who pushed so hard to keep it in the SOTU, was it Hadley, Rove, ? And the biggest question: Did they already know the Niger docs from Italy were forgeries at the time they were doing it?
Therein lies the rub but it seems unlikely any of that will be discovered in this particular trial.
One can only hope that once the ump can see all things clearly, then perhaps he will pursue it to the depth it deserves.
Bustednuckles @ 124
Sounds like another good drinking game for when Dear Leader overtakes the teevee airwaves again.
Since I am a lifelong Met fan, that means the Mets are at the center of the baseball universe, which means that the Mets’ worst trade is THE worst trade in baseball history. And remember, I’m omnciscient.
MrsK8 – You might be on to something there. My question about conflate was a serious one. Not that it detracts from the excellent reportage – more a point of clarification.
p.lukasiak @ 112
Penn Gillette (of Penn & Teller) gave his daughter the legal middle name of “Crimefighter”
Evil Parallel Universe @ 127
How can we forget, when you keep reminding us?
;-)
EvilDrPuma @ 65
the truth will be enough. we have that at least from fitz.
Great work Christy and Marcy!! You are a great assets to our understanding of the proceedings. Thanks for all you have done.
This whole thing is clearly getting under Cheney’s lizard scales as evidenced by his surly Blitzer interview.
I certainly hope that Babs Comstock keeps pouring money down this miserable dark hole of deceit and ultimate conviction.
I’m really curious about Marcy’s last sentence:
This referring to issues around Fleischer’s immunity and how it came about. You think he’s (Wells) that hosed already? That would be some discussion I’d like to see here . . .
Leslie @ 83: Thanks for that clarification. I thought it was uncharacteristic of Fitz to let a loose cannon in on his side. Should have thought harder. :-)
So I’ll just join everyone else in wondering why Wells pulled that stunt in front of the judge today. Maybe he didn’t think that Fitz could call his bluff in real time? As I read it, and as Christy explained it, it makes no sense.
Someone upthread wondered if he’s trying to lose, and I’m beginning to wonder if he isn’t. Maybe it’s a sort of mutually assured destruction? It’s hard to say. It’ll be interesting to read the defense’s questioning of its own witnesses, especially Libby himself.
RevDeb @ 94
Ah, so it wasn’t just me – couldn’t believe how the reporter droned on signifying well, nothing. Surely the News Hour can do better than that little lady from the WaPo. How I miss the old McNeil-Lehr Newshour’s pride of excellence.
A few more pics of Cathie Martin and even one of her hub w/ Gore. Hmmmmmmm…
James Robinson @ 133
As someone else started to speculate on an earlier thread, it might have just been a stalling technique so that her and Ari’s testimony wouldn’t be the last thing the jury heard before the long weekend. Just a guess.
James Robinson @ 133
This becomes especially interesting in light of Fitz’s repeated suggestions that the defense is trying to weasel out of having Libby testify after all.
That, combined with the shenanigans today, doesn’t make me think Wells is trying to lose – I can’t imagine that would do much for his long-term professional success – but it does make me think he might be running scared, and making careless mistakes because of it. Or else he’s just arrogant enough to think he can get away with it.
Terry Olson @ 121
I don’t think that will happen voluntarily. Fitz loves his job. He has given one interview, count it, one interview since he indicted Scooter. The interview was with his high school (Regis) newspaper (The Owl). He loves his job.
Your question however, makes me wonder what he’d do if Bush ordered LapDog Gonzo to give him the axe.
You’ve read the stories. They’re axeing US Attorneys around the country and replacing them, bypassing Senate consent, using a provision passed in
PatriotTerrorist Act.The whole is being played close to the vest. Gonzo said he’d explain the reasons to the Judiciary Commoittee in private attributing the secrecy to personnnel issues and not explaining AT ALL why Bush and he will not submit the replacement candidates to the Senate for consent.
Fitz did the private law gig before he prosecuted in the Manhattan DA’s office. I wonder what kind of law he’d want to practice if he had to make a choice.
Thanks Christy and Emptywheel.
The Prosecution took the risk of agreeing to immunize Ari before it knew what Ari could proffer. Therefore, to those who take the risks go the rewards, right? Even the Republican Party chants this kind of mantra — at least publically (who can list what backroom deals the Republican Party has participated in that subvert competition?).
But who are the Defense kidding with this claim for giglio material? Regardless of whether the law sides with Fitz, Defense already has a handle on what Ari knows–that’s if Libby is allowed to demonstrate his excellent memory in the privacy of his counsels’ offices.
Teller gave his child the middle name “”
MrsK8 – You would be surprised how often I have to remind people. It surprises me ;-p
Terry Olson @ 121
I like the way you think! And after Fitz triumphs for the Wilsons he’ll have time for a vacation to Ireland to rest up before President re-elect Gore appoints him Attorney General. (G)
neil @ 138
As I understand it, he only did so for three years, in order to pay off his school loans, so he could go be a public servant without crippling debt. And even then it was a litigation firm. You’re right, he won’t leave his job willingly.
stingray @ 125
I think Tweety did correct himself today – would have to see the transcript but I believe he ended up saying that OVP tasked the CIA with answering the question – was Iraq looking for uranium in Niger? – so Joe Wilson was indirectly sent by the OVP.
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I think when the CIA sent Ambassador Wilson they told him it was to fulfill the request that had come from the OVP for the information. And if Joe Wilson said he was sent at the request of the OVP he was right.
Cheney probably put the question to the CIA expecting nothing more than a “yes, Boss” and I’ll bet he was surprised as heck when he found out the CIA actually did something real to answer the question – of course he got burned by the fact that it had all started with him.
neil –
You hit the nail on the head about Fitz’s character.
Fitzgerald HATES public corruption. He hates it when folks take an oath to do their duty to the constitution for the sake of the people they serve — and then violate that duty by serving THEMSELVES.
And he loves getting to be part of giving them justice — even though he seems to believe there will someday be an eternal rendering of justice before a more important Judge — he thinks there should be justice done here on earth, too.
My guess is, if he absolutely HAD to go into the private sector, he would somehow want to work for the victims of people who have abused their power. (Like maybe for whistleblowers, and the like.) JMO.
fdlblog @
80
She doesn’t.
Cooper’s testimony is that he asked Libby if he had heard that Wilson’s wife worked at CIA. And Libby said, “I’ve heard that too.”
What Martin said was that he heard no mention of Plame (plus, she missed part of the conversation while she was on the phone with J Millerwise).
Those aren’t contradictory statements.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 142
LOL!!!
Thanks for my first out-loud laugh of the day.
Evil Parallel Universe @
93
Tom Seaver for Steve Henderson, et al was way worse. Ryan had the best arm ever but Seaver was a way better pitcher and had put the Mets on the map. Besides I barely remember the Ryan trade.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 141
Wait – how can the omniscient be surprised by anything? ;)
everhopeful @ 145
everhopeful –
You have a good memory. That’s how it went down.
I’ve always thought this was a stupid argument on the part of OVP, a matter of playing semantics (no we didn’t SEND him — meaning: no we didn’t send HIM, i.e. we didn’t pick the person out ourselves).
But then this trial is starting to reveal to the whole world how they want to “shape thinking” — so semantics (rhetoric) is all they have.
The Nefarious Leslie @ 149
they fake it for the edification of those of us who live in the Good Universe
Lawnguylander – Seaver was a way better pitcher, but I still think the Ryan trade was worse. At least we got most of Seaver’s best years – though not the no-hitter.
Nefarious Leslie – What would other’s ignorance have to do with my omniscience? ;-)
MrsK8 – Happy I can make you laugh. I don’t know if you saw my post above asking CHS about the word conflate.
The Nefarious Leslie @ 150
Uh-oh –
Now we’re getting into that age-old theological debate, reconciling the free will of creatures with the omniscience (predetermination) of the Creator.
Are you up for some Scholasticism with a big scoop of Reformation?
Mrs. K8 –
It has also always bugged me how the talking points kept mentioning how he went on his own dime (CIA didn’t pay for it) but at the same time putting out the idea that it was a junket for Plame’s husband. Seems mutually exclusive to me.
p.lukasiak – Jealous? Don’t hate me b/c I’m omniscient. There is nothing fake about it. And what makes you think your in the “good” universe even if mine’s named evil? I’ve never answered the great epistimelogical question of which universe is truly evil. I always thought that was a gimme, but perhaps not.
EPU –
Yes, I saw it! I just assumed, while reading the post, that the real intended word was “inflate” — Wells was stupidly “inflating” his argument, puffing himself and his objection up, ever more absurdly, until the good judge stuck a pin in it. Whooosh!
We all know the only One who can legitimately “inflate” is the EP Universe, right?
And I’ve seriously needed some out-loud laughter for a while — of course, being who You are, I’m sure You knew that!
;-)
MrsK8 – I’m hoping CHS responds. Maybe Well’s was conflating two arguments; though your “inflate” analysis works well if he wasn’t.
choochmac @ 155
Yes! And I was ALWAYS convinced that Joe Wilson was being very, very smart in refusing to get paid for the trip. I suspect he always knew instinctively what a viper’s nest the OVP is. It pisses them off no end when they’re reminded that the “junket” meme has no legitimacy whatsoever.
I mean, doesn’t EVERYBODY want to go to Niger on vacation, or at least a “cushy” bidness trip? Sheesh.
Terry Olson @ 121
This, as others have mentioned, is unlikely. I heard Fitzgerald speak at Northern Illinois Univ.’s law school last year and he was pretty clear about the benefits of public sector advocacy (which he views as “doing the right thing”) v. having to do what a client would want you to do as a private atty. I think the only other job that would interest him is head of the FBI. He might bide his time with a professorship until the FBI slot opened. Even being the AG (or a Deputy) has too many lap dog qualities to it (ask Comey).
And being a former attorney is often a step up the occupational ladder, particularly if you are doing legal analysis like Christy is. I have many “former attorney” friends who teach at law schools or who were never technically attys (i.e. never took the bar) who are doing far more interesting work than they ever could have as a practicing attorney. We are often defined far more accurately by what we won’t do than by what we will.
badwater said above: “It’s damaging to Republicans in general because they were so upset about Whitewater and hardly upset about this one.”
your first and second clauses are unrelated statements. however, one cannot consider any of this damaging to republicans “in general” at this point because republicans do not acknowledge that libby did anything wrong — in unison they declare, he didn’t lie, he didn’t remember!
some people, whatever their political stripe, may recognize the hypocrisy between republican attitudes toward the libby trial and whitewater/lewinski but “true” republicans certainly don’t/won’t.
EPU wrote:
p.lukasiak – Jealous?
you have to ask?
Don’t hate me b/c I’m omniscient. There is nothing fake about it. And what makes you think your in the “good” universe even if mine’s named evil? I’ve never answered the great epistimelogical question of which universe is truly evil. I always thought that was a gimme, but perhaps not.
I’m rubber and you’re glue…whatever you say bounces off of me and stick to you! :P
Pax et Bonum @ 160
And I can well imagine Fitzgerald teaching law at a Jesuit law school.
Although I’d rather seem him heading the FBI.
He’d certainly be the Anti-Hoover.
Everhopeful said:
Cheney probably put the question to the CIA expecting nothing more than a “yes, Boss” and I’ll bet he was surprised as heck when he found out the CIA actually did something real to answer the question – of course he got burned by the fact that it had all started with him.
Bingo. And it may that OVP only found out about the trip, and about a possible rebuttal of the Niger story, after Wilson began making calls – which was long after the SOTU and the commencement of the war.
But, again: What evil geniuses insisted on the 16 words in the SOTU. They ~must~ have known the CIA could not support it, or they would not have pulled the devious tactic of attributing it to “the British government.”
In effect they created a false dichotomy: Do you want to support Bush’s war, or do you want to get nuked? That’s an easy choice to make if you are the American public, or Congress. But it it is a FALSE one, then isn’t it also tantamount to treason?
As you know, they ended up retracting it after the Wilson piece hit, saying “those sixteen words should not have been included.”
But that’s not enough for me. They may have taken us into a freaking war over an intentional falsity. If that happened then it needs to come out or I will forever lose faith in more than just the Justice system.
In the meantime, this a superb start and I’m ever hopeful too that more may spiral from it.
Go Fitz!
p.lukasiak – It was rhetorical. Nahnah, na, nahnah. :-)
Mrs. K8 @ 162
…I think the only other job that would interest him is head of the FBI. …
My druthers, as someone said upthread, would be Attorney General in the Gore administration… :)
urban pirate @ 115
BTW fdlblog I too was wondering if you are rather new here cause when I first saw your handle I flashed on a certain standard poodle with the initial K making mischief for his mistress.
stingray –
No doubt about it. Tenet had already stripped the African uranium allegation from a speech of Georgie’s in Cincinnati the previous October. Because it couldn’t be supported by any evidence.
They knew exactly what they were doing.
And that’s proved by them “retracting” the 16 words, something they otherwise never, ever have done.
Even if they still have their wingnut welfare minions out there STILL trying to say there was an effort to get African uranium.
This while Iraq had, within its borders, tons upon tons of its OWN uranium.
They’re shameless.
And evil.
S.O.S. from MA @ 166
Me, too! I was just responding to the idea that even the A.G. position would be something too political to suit his taste.
In that case, I’d rather see him as the Anti-Hoover (and even the Anti-Mueller) at FBI than teaching law.
There’s always time to teach law later. (Or at least that’s how I’d argue the idea to Fitz, if he wanted MY opinion. — As if!!! Sigh.)
Rev Deb
Dont know if anyone answered you from #10.
Giglio sounds like a case that set a precedent for the issue they were arguing about. When they say “under Giglio” they are refering to the court’s decision in that case as a way of making their current argument.
anyone else think that team scooter is;
has been trying for a mistrial
has started to look for ways of having a mistrial today?
has realized the exu has to pardon everyone by tomorrow, as Ari appears to be fingering them tomorrow
am I missing something?
is Walton’s comment about Fitzgerald’s character going to prejudice the case for appeal or mistrial?
Here you go:
Giglio v. United States
Pax et Bonum @
159
But wouldn’t it SO be doing the right thing in this case? So much more could come out. Right?
Ok KIDDO:
Matthews is going to talk about “centrist Democrats”. What are they (cent. Demos) exactly?
According to Matthews? Webb.
It makes you wonder how none of Tip O’Neils politics rubbed off on tweety.
Here’s a better link, but it is a PDF:
Giglio v. United States
Forget the last post. Here it is, and its not a PDF:
Giglio v. United States
so much for omniscience….
TeddySF – In what sense? That I didn’t know what Giglio referred to in the world of law? Or that I was led astray by Yahoo? Be careful.
neil @ 173
Clearly the only thing Tweety learned from Tip O’Neil was the glorious taste of fine aged Irish whiskey.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 177
Don’t you already know the answer to this?
“… the CIPA information and questions that Mr. Cline had asked, and we went on to the next legal argument.
Which was a mistake for Libby’s legal team.”
this mirrors the mistake made by Hadley.
see Cincinnatti in previous.
Tenant had been clearing the sixteen words from all administration speeches, but Hadley used them again in his Cincinnati speech. He got away with it and the sixteen words then appeared in the [2003] SOTU.
Tenant had been gamed… and went down quietly, promised the gold medal on a chain.
I believe Libby’s legal team expected the same roll over from Judge Walton in this exchange. I believe Walton is bucking the trend here. He’s calling bullshit.
This is from the Waas article, which proves that CM might have perjured herself:
During both of those conversations, according to the federal grand jury testimony of both Cooper and Miller, Libby said virtually nothing at all about the March 8, 2002 CIA debriefing report regarding Wilson. [Editor’s note: This sentence is worded differently than in the original version posted on January 12, 2007.]
Instead, both testified that Libby discussed the fact that Valerie Plame was a CIA officer, and that she had been responsible for sending her husband on his mission to Niger. The discussion between Libby and Cooper was the first that the then-vice presidential chief of staff and the Time correspondent spoke of Plame.
Terry Olson @ 172 says:
But wouldn’t it SO be doing the right thing in this case? So much more could come out. Right?
**************************
I get what you’re saying (and hoping for!), but I think that would create a bunch of ethical problems for Fitzgerald.
Pax et Bonum @
182
Gotcha…
KO on deck here in PST land!
Stingray and Mrs. K8:
It just fries me that Cheney would have gotten away with ALL OF IT had it not been for Joe Wilson. The 16 words would never have been questioned publicly – I mean who was going to do it, Tenet? Uh uh…nobody but Joe Wilson.
Cheney put it back in the SOTU, even after Tenet had taken it out earlier, because HE KNEW he could get away with it. Of course, at the time he didn’t know about Joe’s trip – ha ha!
But when you’re OMNIPOTENT and UNTOUCHABLE, as he was no doubt feeling then, on the verge of leading your own fascist empire, of being able to wage endless war, of having a permanent majority and permanent power, and having the media all set up as nothing but a propaganda machine, why worry about getting caught with “16 little words?”
TeddySanFran @
11
Libby’s team passed on all the folks who might have picked up on this… but there is always jury nullification to think about.
More generally, the folks you wonder about above… contributors… so far each night there is wonderment on this blog… are the contributors to the Libby Defense Fund happy with what they are seeing on each days reports?
my question: can this be a real defense by these dudes, or do they have something up their sleeves???
can they possibly be this well paid and this inept?
Good luck with that. Cline was hired as the greymail specialist. Wells complaining about the volume of documents after trying his best to apply a greymail strategy seems like something that would really stick in a judge’s craw.
Bay State Librul @ 89
I woulf prefer to think the worst trade ever would be the samy sosa trade…ummm…right around the time our comander in chief owned the team
uhyup
Oklahoma kiddo @
20
Surely your tongue is in cheek-
perris @
187
He never “owned the team” he had 10% of the team, but did not invest any money at all. It was a way to give he money.
186; good possibility that these fellows have been paid enough to retire to save a lot of very wealthy people from IIPA, perjury, conspiracy for both, and several other potential crimes. I think statements like Martin’s today are going to put WHIG in conspiracy. She mentioned 12 to 16 on a conversation that it seemed as though the participants knew certain information as given. it is hard to imagine their getting the papers on Saturday last that would inflict gaping wounds in their case. were they just inept?
is getting this delayed by whatever means necessary, the main goal?
Bargain Countertenor @ 62
He compliments the prosecutor in open court because he is pissed off at the defense counsel’s shenanigans.
No one likes to be lied to. Wells was lying and was caught in a lie by Walton. Fitz pushed back on Wells assertions long and hard enough, until the truthiness of Wells assertions were laid bare. Everyone, including Wells, hates to be played as a fool. Wells was trying to get an advantage for a purpose I don’t quite understand. So I’ll take Fitz’s word for it.
raven @
22
Thank the flying spaghetti monster… last I heard Tweety was adding blonde extensions and hovering over the Great Codpiece.
I’m without cable tv now… has Tweety progressed beyond Mission Accomplished?
p.lukasiak @ 99
Cooper hasn’t been called to testify yet.
J. Thomason @
23
I strongly disagree… Wells does NOT have to “show through evidence” there is any animosity… etc
Prosecution must PROVE beyond…
defense only needs to confuse.
fdlblog, where is you’re apology to pluk? Did that hurt when he quoted from the indictment?
Among many other things, you confuse “proof” with “evidence.”
Hugh says @ 100
If I recall correctly (IIRC)
Thank Hugh.
Why should I apaologize? I was correct and he was wrong. He insulted me, I did nothing of the sort. I made a little mistake in pointing out that Libby might have brought it up first. It does seem clear that CM is open to perjury charges
Thank you, thank you, firedoglake team.
To be able to read what is really going on, instead of hearing it through the MSM filter, is an incredible gift. An amazing feat. It restores my faith. Thank you.
Pax et Bonum @ 160
Fitz’s freshman year college roomate liked to talk about working for the FBI. What a pair! One from Brooklyn, one from the Bronx, two law and order guys, both smart as hell.
Great work, Christy! You’ve earned some quality time with the peanut.
Haralambos @
24
This American was on live video cam FIRST in a pub at the foot of Mt Olympus (cell phones and cam corders were big in all of Europe before they became essentials in US) and had our first Ouzo there (in the live broadcast, all floors of the pub) I’m so glad they let me return the second bottle I’d ordered.
Drinks and hot breads were in great supply, but local maps (or bus schedules), not so much.
This American knew the US was in denial when backpacking, we were offered a ride by a Greek sheepherder (driving a Nisson pickup) who spoke six languages. Since we spoke no Greek he offered a little English or his father’s preference for German. He told us of a shortcut (as it turned out, across the military reservation and we were greeted by machine guns and tanks. But, even though the guards knew less English than the sheepherder, we diverted around the big guns and progressed to bakery carts and bank holidays.
We loved Greece, but it may be too much like America… or too little…
RevDeb @
26
caution rev/deb
it’s not ego
he talks so fast we first think it’s ego, but the long term pattern is more sinister
I don’t have the analogy yet, but he’s really dangerous
I thought a couple of years ago that he might be listening to Shuster, but NO… he’s resisting at the same time trying to appear receptive…
Shuster is GREAT, Matthews is… well undefined as yet.
but again, hugs to RevDeb
I’m blown away by how FDL has orchestrated this so far – both by the honchos and the community. I couldn’t go any less than the next 3 days to organize my life until the next wave.
njr @ 195
I am looking at it from the perspective of a juror. If Wells indicates this is what he is going to show in a defining statement to the jury and doesn’t deliver, how could a reasonable juror differentiate anything Wells might represent as being worthy of consideration. Its a matter of establishing a bond of trustworthiness. You may buy shuck and jive but it runs against the common sense I beleive a reasonable juror would want to see and tying arguments to proof strikes me as foundational in this respect. In other words reasonable doubt arises of fact not bluster. Common sense insists.
Thanks so much to Christy and Marcy and TeamFDL for doing a fantastic job! Special congrats to Marcy as well for the big write-up in the Ann Arbor News. As a Michigan grad myself, what can I say but GO BLUE!
Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we endeavor to deceive! Let’s play Plamegate Chess! I’ve been a bit anxious about this whole thing because Fitzgerald has been Spec Pros for more than 3 years now, with no convictions, but it only took team Cox/Jaworski 16 months to get Nixon to resign. Why has Fitz taken so long?
Furthermore, what’s the deal with Fitzgerald and Rove? Some commentors have already pilloried Jason Leopold, but I don’t think that chapter is really closed –yet.
Here’s the best sense I can make of this. By this time, Fitz has spoken with everyone he needs to. I think he’s figured out that once one starts pulling at the end of the lose yarn in Libby’s story, a whole lot comes unraveled.
Who’s posterior parts are going to be in the fire after the testimony is all said and done?
1. Surely Cheney. Libby apparently has called on Cheney, presumably as a character witness. But if Cheney takes the stand, Fitz can cross, right? And I’ll bet that will result in at least one defensive use of executive privilege, which Fitz could appeal, like Jaworski did with the tapes to the Supreme Court, and won (quickly, too). Cheney must face some exposure.
2. Rove. His name has already been mentioned, and surely not for the last time. Wells wants to throw him under the bus to protect Libby. Rove’s probably counting on an Executive Privilege shield, too. But remember that little agreement with Fitz? I think he has at least one key bit of info that Fitz wants him to reveal, and if he doesn’t, Rove will be in the slammer soon.
I love Swopa’s suggestion that Well’s attempt to throw Rove under the bus during his opening was really only a head fake. Was it? or not?
3. Ari Fleischer. Why was he first to demand immunity– and get it? He must know something that is Very Important
Ford was able to pardon Nixon because Ford was obviously not part of the conspiracy, and he was cleaning up afterwards. Can Bush pardon someone with whom he was involved in a criminal conspiracy?
One of the things that made Nixon’s exit go so fast was indirect collaboration between the Special Prosecutors and congressional committees that were investigating a number of things. Each provided information the other could use. Well, time to get on with it, Congress. Let the Congressional investigations begin!!!
Bob in HI
p.lukasiak @ 60
Exactly…If Cathy Martin told Libby/Cheney what was in her NOTES of her conversation with Harlow/Grenier (i.e. that Wilson’s wife was “a CIA AGENT!!!)…then that would have really gotten Cheney concerned. So he may have gone to another contact in or close to the CIA (Addison??? Someone in loan from WINPAC???) to find out what it was that Plame actually did.
Thus Libby learns the next day from Cheney that Plame is an officer in the Counter Proliferation Division of the Directorate of Operations. She ain’t no analyst and certainly isn’t a desk-jockey. He leaves a note…with this info on it that Fitz later discovers saying Cheney got the infor from the CIA!
What’s odd is that somehow Mr. Novak also obtained precisely the same information about Plame’s position.
According to Novak’s first article he said she was “an OPERATIVE in COUNTERPROLIFERATION OF WMD’s”.
[Just a note: The Analytical side of the CIA regarding nukes and other WMD’s is in the Directorate of Intelligence…the Weapons Intelligence, Nonproliferation, and Arms Control (WINPAC)]
Thus two lineages appear to have known about Plame’s employment activities…do these converge to one source?
rumi @
33
Matthews was a Codpiece worshiper and deserves no vindication whatsoever.
Matthews was a Tom Delay worshiper…
Matthews is a has been. He should take his wealth and retire… a new generation of news reporters (not spinmeisters) needs to be trained up for a new America
I sat watching, feeling this need to scream out, “Stop, you are going too far.”
I think this is how a lot of us have been feeling over the last few years.
Hence the catchy nom de plume.
fdlblog @ 104
Nope. Cooper, after speaking with Rove calls up Libby and asks him if he knew that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA.
According to Cooper’s recapitulation of his testimony, Libby replied “Yeah, I’ve heard that too.”
http://www.time.com/time/press…..78,00.html
Cathy Martin would not have noticed such a statement as being about Valerie Wilson at all.
The fact that she heard nothing where Libby states that he heard about Wilson’s wife from “other reporters” (she would have known that such a claim would have been a lie…since SHE told him about Wilson’s wife working for the CIA) absolutely supports both Cooper’s testimony, as well as the charges.
Cooper’s and Martin’s testimony intermesh!
Please read the Waas artcle and update yourself.
fdlblog @ 181
I’m not sure what your quibble is. If you read Waas’ words closely, he doesn’t specify any directionality to the information flow, he only speaks to the content. Plame was discussed between Cooper and Libby for the first time that day, but that doesn’t speak to what Cooper already knew.
Well, “Libby discussed” seems to be pretty precise to me. Waas does not have a reputation for imprecision of language. Anyway, if Cooper contradicts CM, will she be charged with perjury?
This is you fdlblog:”This is false. Cooper’s testimony is that Libby was the one who brought up Plame.“
When pluk told you, you asked for a link. When he linked to the indictment, you come back with a context-less quote from Waas and no link. Where was pluk wrong?
If you’d dial back your tone, you’d be more than welcome here. It’s your tone, not the content, that’s causing most of your problems. Don’t compound it with more pluk is “wrong” nonsense.
flblog-
That’s more like it.
Now take the next step.
Does “discuss” mean a minimum number of syllables has to be uttered, or can it also relate to a point of understanding being mutally acknowledged with as many or as few words by one or the other as it takes for that understanding to occur ?
everhopeful @ 144
Why don’t you take take it at its plain meaning instead of splitting hairs?
> Fitz’s freshman year college roomate
> liked to talk about working for the
> FBI. What a pair! One from Brooklyn,
> one from the Bronx, two law and order
> guys, both smart as hell.
I personally wonder whether Mr. Fitzgerald is 100% convinced on the need for those annoying “civil liberties” things that get in the way of prosecutions. A person such as Fitzgerald is a 2-edged sword – something it might be well to keep in mind.
Cranky
He was plainly wrong and insulting. He didn’t bother to get the full information that was out there and he shot his mouth off. You should be upbraiding him not me.
flblog – I am taking it at plain meaning. Waas’ statements are inherently non-specific related to directionality. Now compare that to the information that p.luk referenced and you will reconize that it is entirely consistent.
You’re attributing directionality that doesn’t exist in Waas’ report.
Bob Schacht @ 206
Agreed that Fleischer probably has something very important, indeed. But that conclusion doesn’t follow from the fact that he was given immunity. The prosecution was adamant that Fleischer did not come to them claiming to have information valuable to them and therefore deserved immunity. It was “a pig in a poke.” No quid pro quo. The day ended with both sides wrangling this out with Walton in great length.
Keep doing that
Jason Leopoldfdlblog. Keep ignoring the arguments and calling people “wrong.“No you are splitting hairs. Waas obviously had access to more of the testimony.
I posted the evidence that he was wrong from the Waas article. If you can’t understand it, that’s not my problem.
Sure it is
Jason,fdlblog, people such as emptywheel and pluk are always willing to help out others who know less than they do.Dr. “Bones” McCoy:
“That thread’s dead, Jim.”
cinnamonape @
207
My money is on Bolton as the source (perhaps via Fleitz) for Cheney’s info about Plame’s status in Counterproliferation. After Cathie Martin told Libby and Cheney about Plame, Cheney then went to Bolton to get more information on her.
I have been convinced for quite some time that it was Bolton. Novak and Judy both relied heavily on Bolton as a source in their reporting on WMDs in the run-up to the war. Shit, Bolton even visited Judy in jail.
Bolton was likely also tasked by Cheney to pour over raw intelligence on Iran’s nuclear programs which would then be stovepiped through the intelligence channels in their efforts to wage war in Iran. Guess who was gathering intelligence on Iran at this time as a consultant with Brewster Jennings, a CIA cover firm? Valerie Plame.
It’s my hope that once Fitz gets Libby convicted, he can lay it all out for us in an IIPA case against Cheney and Libby. I don’t know that he has the evidence right now (although Turdblossom might very well have given it too him in exchange for no indictment–another one of my growing hunches), but if Libby faces a treason charge he will be a lot more likely to provide that evidence to the prosecutor.
fdlblog @ 211
I wasn’t aware that Waas was an official Court Record. His statement is unclear regarding precisely what was said between Cooper and Libby.
Cooper’s OWN recapitualation of his Grand Jury testimony is quite precise on this point. It was COOPER who raised the subject of the CIA employment of “Wilson’s wife” (because he wanted confirmation of Rove’s earlier statement), and that all Libby stated was “Yeah, I’ve heard that too.”
I would think that Cooper would be the one most cognizant of what he said…unless somehow Waas has illegally obtained actual Grand Jury documents.
Where do you think Waas obtained the information about what Cooper testified?
That’s enough. It’s only the end of week one. There’s lots more trial to live blog and lots more comments to make…but not like the one I just moderated.
RevDeb @ 35
I know I’m certainly getting my money’s worth.
fdlblog @ 223
Where did he obtain the secret Grand Jury testimony???
Cooper was the only one in the Courtroom legally allowed to speak publicly about his own testimony before the Grand Jury.
Here is what Cooper wrote in his Time Magazine article about his testimony.
“This was actually my second testimony for the special prosecutor. In August 2004, I gave limited testimony about my conversations with Scooter Libby. Libby had also given me a specific waiver, and I gave a deposition in the office of my attorney. I have never discussed that conversation until now. In that testimony, I recounted an on-the-record conversation with Libby that MOVED TO background. On the record, he denied that Cheney knew about or played any role in the Wilson trip to Niger. ON BACKGROUND, I ASKED Libby if he had heard anything about Wilson’s wife sending her husband to Niger. Libby replied, “Yeah, I’ve heard that too,” or words to that effect.
Like Rove, Libby never used Valerie Plame’s name or indicated that her status was covert, and he never told me that he had heard about Plame from other reporters, as some press accounts have indicated.”
So if Cooper was the one that initiated the question about “Wilson’s wife” and Libby merely replied “Yeah, I’ve heard that too,” or words to that effect.” then Kathy Martin would not have even had a reason to think that Mrs. Wilson’s identity had been discussed.
As Cooper says, Libby never even used her name.
So where does Martin face a perjury charge again?
Great coverage, thanks FDL for keeping us informed.
God knows we don’t trust what the corporate media says…FDL is keeping them honest, at least on the Leak case.
I must have been a real bad day for Cathie Martin!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01736.html
I would love to be a fly on the wall at the Martin mansion, tonight ;-)
“Honey, I don’t WANT to hear about how bad YOPUR DAY was…I’ve been through hell, too!”
Why don’t you take take it at its plain meaning instead of splitting hairs?
I’m convinced that fdlblog is a troll.
Murray Waas is a fine reporter — and is basing his use of the word “discuss” on the grand jury testimony. The indictment itself (as previously cited) delineates the precise nature and limits of the “discussion”, i.e.
case closed.
Cinnamonape — thanks for the extended quote from Cooper’s own description of his testimony. (I tried to find it but couldn’t…could you include a link next time?)
*****************
My money is on Bolton as the source (perhaps via Fleitz) for Cheney’s info about Plame’s status in Counterproliferation. After Cathie Martin told Libby and Cheney about Plame, Cheney then went to Bolton to get more information on her.
as much as I wish that were true, neither name is on the list of names that (I believe) was provided to potential jurors (to see if they knew anyone who would/might be involved in the trial) — so i don’t have much hope.
I did – at post 210.
And I think I also did on the earlier topic where he fdlblog first raised his assertion (Cathie Testimony #3?)
Actually it was post #152 on “Cathie Martin Testimony #2″ but likely so late up that no one noticed it…though it followed closely on his first assertion that Martin had purjured herself.
That should read post #162 (”Cathy Martin’s Testimony #2) that has Cooper’s recapitulation of his GJ testimony.
I’m on the Left Coast and can’t really catch the ongoing live discussion/blog very easily.
Totally off topic: It’s probably just me getting overly excited about this but this quote made me wonder…:
…can anyone in the Bush Admin own stocks…and if they can…do youse think a majority of them have bought up NBC (Westinghouse?) stocks? Friends of W outside of the White House?
Reading these threads and posts has me as excited as I was back when I was a purple-haired secretary (temporary and on my way to Amsterdam…where I ate tons of Leonidas chocolates), and was listening to the Iran-Contra hearings on NPR. I will never forget Oliver North’s affected-adolescent voice warble about “the good, the bad, and the ugly”.
If History rhymes, what rhymes with ugly?
Sonoma Rus @
103
Giglio is part of the name of a case decided by the US Supreme Court in 1972. The Court held that a promise made by one Assistant US Attorney (not to prosecute a prosecution witness in exchange for the witness’s agreement to testify against a defendant) must be disclosed to the defendant’s lawyer because the benefit to the witness constitutes exculpatory evidence. That is, witness receiving the benefit may be lying in order to receive the benefit, rather than testifying truthfully. In Giglio the AUSA who tried the defendant’s case didn’t know, or claimed that he didn’t know about the promise made by the previous AUSA. Therefore, he didn’t disclose the promise. The Supremes didn’t buy it thereby imposing a duty on prosecutors in future cases to find out and disclose whether any benefits have been promised to prosecution witnesses in exchange for testimony. Giglio is one of four principal cases decided by the Supremes that flesh out a prosecutor’s duty to disclose exculpatory evidence to the defense. The first case was Brady v. Maryland, followed by Giglio v. US, then US v. Bagley, and Kyles v. Whitely.
The legal principle is that a defendant cannot get a fair trial if the prosecution hides exculpatory evidence from the defense.
Jencks material refers to investigatory reports by law enforcement officers and all oral, written, or recorded statements by witnesses whom the prosecution intends to call at trial. Such material is referred to as Jencks material because the Jencks Act, a law passed by Congress in the thirties I believe, provided that federal prosecutors don’t have to disclose the identities of their witnesses or provide any of their reports or statements until after the witness testifies on direct examination. In practice, however, Jencks material is turned over no later than the Friday before the Monday that a federal trial commences.
The primary purpose of the Jencks Act is to prevent defendants from dissuading witnesses against them from testifying (think Mob trials). Of course, protecting witnesses from retaliation by defendants is rarely a legitimate concern and many states have rejected the trial-by-ambush approach encouraged by the Jencks Act and replaced it with open discovery rules.
Needless to say, federal prosecutors enjoy an enormous advantage over federal defendants since they can investigate and charge through secret grand jury proceedings and not disclose who their witnesses are until just before trial. Whether you believe that’s good or bad depends on whether you’re pulling for the prosecutor or the defendant to win.
Now, you too can sagely remark, “Sounds like a Giglio violation, to me,” as you chow down on a cocktail weenie at your next Inside-the-Beltway party. Or, you might say, “Libby’s toast because his lawyer will be stepping all over his dick when he crosses Fleisher next week, but at least he bought himself some time by running out the clock so he has the weekend to review Fleisher’s Jencks material, not that it’ll do him much good because Scooter’s boat is going down and Scooter-baby cain’t swim.” [Insert appropriate know-it-all chuckle]
Welcome to that exceedingly peculiar lingo called lawyer-speak. But don’t forget, you’ll blow your cover if you say gigolo instead of giglio.
A proffer is a statement by a witness made to a federal prosecutor regarding what he or she would testify about. Proffers are usually given by witnesses who are represented by counsel seeking benefits in exchange for their client’s testimony.