Breaking! Word from one of the (male) journalists: Ari Fleischer is in the bathroom. He uses the bathroom just like anyone else. He doesn't know whether he's going to testify today.
I bet you're glad I told you that…
Wells still up [questioning Martin].
She has a way of setting her mouth to prepare for this. She's looking at lawyers again. Now looks toward Defense table. Back to lawyers. Looking for someone in the audience. Bites her lips.
For some reason both Fitz and Wells wore gray suits today.
She's drinking water.
She moves mike down to her mouth. Unbuttons her jacket.
W May I approach. Miss Martin I want to show you this exhibit. [she's leaning over almost looks fed up] It's an email from me to Libby's assistant, which I assume was going to Libby.
I need to talk to Scooter this afternoon re the Pincus stuff and Niger (with attachments)
W Does that help you place when you talked to Mr. Harlow.
M It helps me make logical sense of when I talked to Harlow. I remember things in pictures, and I don't have a picture of this.
W You still think 6/11 makes sense but you're not there yet.
[shows her the phone slip of the call to Grenier]
M I don't know him, but I know who he is. [says he was #3 at CIA which is incorrect]
W do you know that he was the person on 6/11?
M not before this trial. It would help me make sense in my mind of the probability that I talked to Harlow.
W Based on all of the material you reviewed. If you accept the assumption that 6/11 was the day you talked to Harlow.
M It appears that way.
3:17
[wells writing chronology again]
W it is your recollection that you had this conversation [Wells mispronounces Grenier's name: Gren-ee-eer]
Walton interrupts, that's not what she said.
M I'm just saying I don't have a picture in my head, based on what they're telling me.
W if you accept that Mr Grenier that it was on 6/11.
W after you talked to them you had conversation with Libby and VP and disclosed to both of them that Mrs. Wilson worked at CIA.
[she's got a nervous smile now]
W you first talked to the FBI in October 2003, you hadn't had the benefit of reviewing all these documents and your memory at that time was that you had talked to Mr Libby and VP about Mrs. Wilson working at CIA probably on July 9.
M I don't remember saying that but I do remember that at the beginning I thought everything about it. I knew on MTP that I knew his name so some of it had to have happened before.
W when you went into the FBI you recall you told them you learned about it the week of July 7. Then you went back for 2nd interview on Jan 15 2004 and at that time you continued to say you thought you told him during the week of July 7, not until GJ testimony in April of 2004 you had recollection that it had to be before July 6.
M At some point reviewing the notes and knowing I knew his name on MTP and I had to think about each conversation about when it occurred.
W there was a whole month in which you forgot you knew.
W background: Harvard law, you practiced in DC. You moved to TX and were involved in policy then moved back to DC at commerce as DCOS and WH liaison and then Mary Matalin asked you to be her deputy.
W who is Matalin
M prominent Republican strategist married to Carville,
W when you took the job you were candid you didn't have a lot of experience working with the press. Matalin told you you'd be great.
W Matalin left her positoin December 2003. You assumed her duties in terms of heading public affairs in VP office. At that time you did not have a lot of experience being front and center press spokeman.
M I wasn't the press secretary. I did deal with communication issues on VP messaging.
W Stepping into shoes of Mary Matalin was daunting. She was bigger than life figure.
M Yes. I'm no Mary Matalin.
W People respected her judgement on press.
M Correct. Well the VP did.
W did you have discussions about how you'd do?
M I didn't have discussions with Cheney, I had discussions with Mary about that.
W And Libby?
M I said "I was not Mary, you're not getting Mary."
W Focus on Kristof article. You had been in your job 5-6 months.
M In the head of office job.
W Millerwise Assistant.
M Press secretary.
W Prior to that she was at WH
M explains What this is. We refer to that as a booker.
W she did not have a lot of experience either.
M She'd been a press sectretary on the Hill, but few of us had a lot of experience with this.
W June 6 Edelman left for Ambassador job?
M Don't know about date.
W He used to work with you?
M More hands on with Jennifer.
W Mr Edelman the senior non press person left so he was gone.
W Mr Libby's job was to focus on National Security Issues? He would spend time on issues like homeland security and terrorism and war on Iraq. It was not part of Libby's job to deal directly with press.
M fair comment.
M Edelman pointed out the Kristof article. He had pointed out to Jennifer. Eric, I assumed, was going to be the one who figured out something we could say, because he was a columnist, and attacked the administration fairly regularly, we were just waiting to see what Eric had to say and we didn't feel any urgency to get to Kristof.
W Kristof article. [reading from article]
3:32
Wells is reading the whole damn thing, down to the copyright. Including the lines, After all, "as Ari said…"
W Could you explain how the forged documents fit into Wilson's allegations.
M Documents we got from the French.
M Sorry. The Italians that suggested Iraq was trying to get yellowcake from Niger. At some point these documents were learned to be forgeries.
W did you find out the docts were forgeries after Wilson trip?
Objection/Withdrawn.
M I don't believe we talked about forged documents.
W WRT claim that VP requested the investigation. Did that correspond to the talking points.
M Our talking point was that VP did not know of any former Ambassador sent on this trip.
W and your talking points were true at all times.
M Correct
[Wells keeps reading the article]
W Is it correct that Cheney at no time received a report from CIA or Wilson?
Objection, Sidebar.
3:39
She's looking toward her lawyers. Pouring more water.
Walton: He's upset you put your water up there bc if it falls on our computer, we have no money to replace it, because we have no budget.
W To your understanding, Cheney never received a report from CIA or Wilson on the substance of his trip?
M To my understanding that is correct.
W Let's take the article down. Is it fair to say that the next time that the Wilson allegations was on or around June 8-9-10 when Pincus started calling about an article that was published on June 12.
M I think that's correct.
W puts in Pincus article. It was this article that sharpened the focus on VP's office.
M I beileve Rice is asked about this.
W On June 8
M So it gains prominence THERE.
W Okay, Kristof, June 8, she is confronted with questions, after that it kind of became a big issue. Mr. Pincus on June 12 2003, right after Pincus wrote his article Mr. Kristof wrote a second article.
M I've since seen the second one.
Wells introduces Kristof's second article.
3:52
Wells goes through Kristof's article: starts with Rice, then goes to OVP learning of its role in Wilson's trip from Kristof's article.
M It was either Scooter or me that revealed that to Kristof.
W Your reply wasn't being accepted.
M By Kristof.
W "Kristof was mocking you."
W From your perspective, people just wouldn't listen to you.
M THe media was not reporting what we were saying, and if they were they weren't believing us.
M Some journalists are getting it. Others are not.
W The Tenet statement that was released on July 11, the purpose was to get out certain facts concerning reasons for going to war.
M It was to make it clear how 16 words got into SOTU and by implication Admin believed them to be true when we inserted them in SOTU.
W After Pincus does his second article. The next time things blow up is when Wilson publishes his op-ed. [what about TNR article?] And Wilson goes on MTP.
M Correct.
W On the television show he makes allegations about what VP should have known.
Wells introduces Wilson's oped.
Reading from op-ed.
W after the op-ed you felt it important to prepare talking points.
M Correct
W Can you just talk everyone through your talking points.
M she's just explaining the talking points.
M We weren't told they were sending a former Ambassador to Niger.
M Did not receive a briefing about it. We weren't aware of it. We didn't get a briefing about it. [she's got this very competent tone, but obviously was pissed at Wilson. I think it's a very effective tone.]
M Not aware of his mission.
W Is it your understanding that Ari used your talking points.
M I believe he did.
W is is correct that sometime on July 7 Bush, Rice, Powell and others left for Africa. Did not return until 11th or 12th.
M I believe it was the 12th.
W Also Bartlett, who is he
M Explains–press secretary and top communications person on the plane to Africa.
W when you said everyone was gone did you mean top communication types were gone?
M I believe I meant broader than that, eveyrone was gone. Condi, Powell, everyone who would have had a hand in SOTU was gone.
W "No one could have predicted" that Wilson was going to go public. [Wells went to Condi school apparently]
M when we planned the trip to Africa? No, no one could have planned it.
W Because top comm people are away, VP Cheney, you and Libby are required to become more involved.
M I believe so.
W On July 7 WH admitted for the first time 16 words was a mistake.
W that's the first time, it was a mistake.
M Correct. [she looks bored]
W Instead of that putting to rest this firestorm, it just got bigger.
M The press was pretty intensely focused on this.
W On July 8 as this story "is beginning to mushroom" you're on Capitol Hill meetng with VP. [see, Condi speak!!]
M There are other people, McGrath. Correct, I took the opportunity to steal a few minutes with the VP.
W you incorporated the talking points into the ones Cheney dictated.
Objection/withdrawn
W Libby approved of talking points.
W During this week, you and Mr Libby are working very closely together, especially bc Bartlett etc in Africa.
M Correct absent the time when I was not talking to them.
W On Wednesday the 9th, Matthews on Hardball has some unkind commetns.
M I don't recollect what he was saying but Matthews was saying a lot of things about us for a long period of time, genrally he was saying some outrageous things. It continued, I wouldn't limit it to that week.
W On July 10 you learned that a decision has been made by senior comm team that Tenet will publish statement explaining 16 words.
M I learned from Scooter that Scooter, VP and Hadley (Hadley more directly) were talking through Hadley but I assumed those in Africa were in the loop.
W Fitz asked to take the communciators out of the loop
M That's what Scooter told me
W Your concern about a possible conversation with Mitchell, VP looked you in the eye and told you "don't worry about it."
W You did not know that Libby had been tasked to talk to Mitchell about NIE.
M I did know that he was tasked to talk to Mitchelll and there was some reference to NIE but I did not know at the time it was declassified.
M frowns, Is that what he said.
Walton, that's not in the instruction.
Wells withdraw.
4:11
W Libby told you Hadley said to keep communicators out, he brought you in, but you had to do it in a way w/o Hadley would know about it.
M I don't think he said the last part, but that was the implicatoin.
W When Mayfield asked for the notes back, it was on the draft of the Tenet statement. And that's why they asked for it back. [Boy am I looking forward to comparing the delivered statement with this draft!]
W you worked into the night that night.
W 10 – 11:00 at night.
M I was there late.
W drafting the statement was a contentious issue.
M It seemed like a delicate issue. Hadley was doing the go-between.
M There was mutual understanding, We weren't trying to embarrass Tenet we were trying to set the facts state.
Wells enters Tenet statemnt, reading first paragraph. Does not read the stuff that damns the WH.
W It was your personal position that the Tenet statement didn't go far enough. There was more detail he could have put into it. How close in time they had told the WH that this was still good evidence.
W Were you referring ot the fact that on Jan 24 a doct had been giving to WH setting forth certain information. You thought that should have been referenced.
Some kind of discussion about this.
4:17
W During the period you were aware of the Jan 24, I'm going to show you what, there are a number of redactions, this is the one that has been declassified for purpose of trial. She looks unsure. Asks for something else. He gives her something. She smiles.
W You have seen this.
M I have.
Puts doc up. Huge redaction, most of it [sorry eriposte!].
W This document, where the cover sheet is dated Jan 24, 2003 shows the WH was told Iraq had 550 tons of yellowcake and low-enriched uranium at Tuwaitha which is inspected annually by IAEA. Iraq also started trying to vigurously procure uranium ore and yellowcake; procuring either would shorten the time to produce nuclear weapons. [The document also includes the"early 2001" intell and the Congo and one other Africa one.]
M Neither you nor Libby were succesful at getting Hadley to include it.
Now we're looking at Martin's actual notes on the back of Tenet's statement.
The NIE the highest consensus document in the US intelligence community said that Iraq was vigorously trying to pursue acquire uranium and cited contacts with Niger and two other African countries as evidence. Intelligence community we did not express doubts about Niger claims in NIE. 50 pages later. [ref to footnote]
[Wells interjects that he has problem reading this]
Has her explain NIE.
History 01 What we now about Iraq
- Acquired uranium from niger in the 80s
- We knew they wanted to acquire nuclear weapons we knew
NIE
- Vigorously trying to acquire
- All agree that reconstructing nuclear programs
- As intell community DID NOT EXPRESS doubt
- INR only
January 24 Document
- We reiterated our statement in NIE that Iraq was vigorously pursuing
- That restates language used in October
W You and Libby were taking the position that he should include this.
March 2002 Evidence Joe Wilson trip
September 02 Brit report
October 01 02 NIE
October 7 02 [in different colored ink] Cincinnati Speech
January 24 03 Document restates NIE
Jan 28 03 SOTU
Feb 5 Powell UN
W Wilson's trip occurred before NIE came out, what that says that in spite of Wilson's trip intell community thereafter published NIE that Iraq was trying to obtain uranium.
Sidebar.
4:31
W Documents made while you were working with Mr. Libb
M Correct but I may have been outside.
More discussion of Libby's and Martin's discussoin of this.
M I thought it was based on our agreement of what had gone on.
M It was based on what I thought was public
Martin looking at her lawyers. Looks relieved. Martin cross will finish on Monday.
Walton warning jury against media.
10 minute break then we're going to have a discussion about another witness.
4:37
Lawyers juggling papers. Maybe they're taking Cathie's notes?
J What is the issue regarding Mr. Fleischer cannot represent what Fleischer what he will say. Fleischer got immunity. Alerted this morning that Zeidenberg intends to ask Fleischer why he got immunity, he'd say he read that outing a CIA spy could be a crime. Completely improper to mention it.
J they want to put in 1X2X6 article. Jeffress contends the claims in the article was totally untrue.
Zeidenberg Fleischer's going to testify that he did seek immunity and he would not talk to the govt before he obtained it and he'll explain why he wanted immunity the reason he wanted it the evening of 9/28 he found the story online which indicated a criminal investigation into possible disclosure of covert agent he knew he had conveyed info to reporters that was previously conveyed to him by Libby. He realized your heart goes in your throat. The following day obtained legal counsel begand discussing with attorneys. We're not introducing this article for thetruth of the matter. Mr. Wells showed an article to Ms. Martin that she had never seen, he put and read a lot of it. Court said it could be relevant for state of mind.
Walton; the article will suggest other criminal behavior that could have resulted. If the defense would forgo the fact taht he got immunity, it sees the govt should have some opportunity about why it was sought. Otherwise if the defense brings it out the implication may be that he was willing to talk but it may have a negative impact on his credibility. It would be unfair for the defense to bring it up.
Zeidenberg: Defense already opened, said he has an immunity agreement. Jeffess has said he'll bring it up, at the end they'll argue about immunized witnesses. This exhibit would be relevant not only in connection with this, the gist of this is also encompassed in a October 12 article which Libby underlined and he was specifically questioned about the allegation that two WH officials Libby acknowledged he had the article, it was two days before he testified, it's admissible independently of Fleischer. The FBI agent will testify they were investigating the 1X2X6 allegation, the FBI just like Libby had a copy, the FBI would have been remiss not to be seeking if there's anything behind the allegation. The article is not being offered for the truth. Ari did not believe for a second that he telephoned a reporter…
Walton: [interrupts] Why can't he testify he read an article
Zeidenberg: the article is only relevant
Walton: why not let Ari testify that he read an article. BC of concern about whether it was.
Zeidenberg: if it said that it was a misdemeanor that would be one thing. You could tell them it's not relevant to the person's mindset.
Walton if Libby has an article it reveals he had concerns he may have committed a crime. Even if the article is wrong as it relates to Libby and he's got it underlined, maybe he had a motive to lie. However in reference to Mr. Flesicher. Unless there's some vigorous attack on Ari. He had concerns about Ari.
Zeidenberg: The critical part of the article as far as Fleischer is concerned. Maybe we can negotiate a satisfactory amont of evidence read the very beginning ofthe article and he knew that some Admin officials has passed this on and this was a possible violation of Federal law.
Walton: My concern is that the jury not get the impression that Mr Libby had committed a crime when he read it.
Z He's in a situation that he spoke to reporters and the subject matter may have related to a covert agent.
Walton trying to find a way for Ari to express why he had a concern, but that didn't want to prejudice Libby.
Jeffress I would like to point out this is not something someone reads an article Fleischer is represented by Williams and Connelly.
Walton but his state of mind is that he sought counsel bc of hte article.
J Mr. Fleischer's state of mind doesn't make any difference.
W IF he's going to be placed under attack, then he's got to have some oppty to explain why he sought immunity.
J We'll submit that to you.
J We have requested from the govt under giglio of any proffers with the govt. That we think would be producable under giglio. It has been represented to us that there were no such communications, blind immunity, without any knowledge of what he would say of Mr. Libby.
Z I don't know the reference to blind immunity. We didn't have any proffer, there were no factual proffers thta would qualify. There were no representations.
Walton He didn't say before hand "if you give me immunity this is what I'll say."
J If Flesicher said through his lawyer, I detected some hesitation.
Walton Is that accurate that you didn't know?
Z we got no specifics from his attorney.
Walton Just a general statement that he could provide
Z there was no reference to Mr Libby.
Fitzgerald The notion that we're hiding the ball. There wasn't some representation of what he would say. There wasn't a factual proffer.
Walton do you accept counsel's representations that if his lawyer represented that he could say something about Mr. Libby about this case and he said that before he got immunity, would that qualify in giglio.
Fit What I object to is that we're playing fast and loose to something. They refused to give us a proffer. It wasn't as if someone said "here's what we'll give you" It wasn't something that we had laid out before us. For them to raise the issues as if we're hiding something. Proffers are usually turned over as Jencks.
Walton Mr Fleischer never provided a factual scenario of what he would say
F We were told he had relevant information. Frankly I didn't want to give him immunity, I was buying a pig in a poke. I did not know what we were going to get other than I knew it was going to be relevant to the case. They're asking for things they're not entitled to. It's not fair.
Wells We have a very different view of the law.
Walton–all he can tell you is that Fleischer had info on this case.
Wells I'm not sure that's what they're saying. Let me explain how govt and defense bar deal with these issues. Blind immunity is commonly referrred to as a situation where govt says, can you help me. Once I go beyond "I can help you." the jury has a right to know, that's negotiated testimony. If the lawyer made through oral representations, we have a right to let the jury know that this was bargained-for testimony. If they said it'll help you case…
Walton I assume Fitz didn't stand before me and make a misrepresentation. He knew Fleischer had info about the case.
Wells if the only statement is, he was on the airplane. If the defense lawyer, eventually we'll get to it maybe after the case, if defense lawyer gave some way it would be helpful. If it's truly blind immnunity, there's nothing to say. There was some kind of it'll help you.
Walton maybe lawyers have a reason to be suspect. That's what I quit practiing because I got tired of people saying I had done things that are not true.
Wells Mr Fitz and I have been at this game for a long time.
Wells we have a disagreement about the law.
Fitz I have been at the game long enough to know defense attorneys will say some things so they can learn things they're not entitled to learn.
Walton if Ari said through his lawyer that he had info and it'd be helpful would you be obligaed to disclose that.
Fitz No.
Walton if he said he had something that it'd be helpful.
F if someone says "we're not going to give you anything without immunity." If Fleischer says here's what we get, we don't even get to giglio. Did I know he had relevant information. When he asserted the fifth, I stopped. We understood he had given it out to SOMEONE but I didn't know which reporter. It's not a Jencks obligation. Even though I'm not obligated. I think that's wrong.
Walton if the defense believes given what govt based on what he indicated under the second. He says it doesn't. If defense believes, they can file appropriate motion, I will rule on it.
Somewhere Wells said this would come up after the case–does he think he lost the case and is appealing it?
End of the day. Beer thirty!
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fitz
My sympathies to the jurors – I’ve been following this pretty closely, and I confess I’m lost. Gonna have to paint a timeline on my wall.
Marcie!
2
FITZMAS !!
Well 4….. pretty good these days. I can’t believed I stopped to read (grrr)
My wife is starting to exhibit signs of jealousy towards Emptywheel.
#3 at CIA. Is that like #3 in Al Quaeda? There’s a lot of them!
Been away and catching up with Marcy’s most excellent rendering of the story.
Any hot back story items in the threads that I’ve missed?
I got in again!!! This is so gay- I need to get a life
ask friend…”Does Ari sit down when he pees”?
EPU’d from last thread but relevant here:
Biodun @ 150
poor fitz going to be along weekend. for all of us.
Raw has up that the rush to war with Iran by Cheney, Libby, Wolfie et al goes back to the 90s. Also has up time line. Very shocking stuff.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0123.html
this is like keeping track of 100 baby turtles at a baby turtle race——
‘Please return contestant 4 to Lane 4′
at least for me.
While reading this transcript, I’m listening to “All the President’s Men,” which is showing on AMC. Seems a good and timely omen for Fitz and crew.
FITZ!
Did I make it?
Geez, this is all so creepy. Reminds me of LaCarre novels. Rottenness at the top, seeping through all the veins and capillaries of govt.
lostingeekdom @ 17
Top 20- Better luck next thread- FWIW A lot of us in the Marines would sit down to pee, we were so tired it was like a break!!
Me @ 12:
Whoever in Russia must have logged out. It was there a few minutes ago.
Is Scott Shane still reporting from inside the men’s room?
Sorta on-topic, sorta off: Been reading this story of Scooter’s schoolboy friend about Scooter, fundamentalism and liberalism. Good read.
emtywheel @ 0
Word from one of the (male) journalists: Ari Fleischer is in the bathroom. He uses the bathroom just like anyone else. He doesn’t know whether he’s going to testify today. I bet you’re glad I told you that…
Was Fleuscher #1, #2 or #3 WH press secretary? …Sorry I couldn’t help myself.
Fitzmas @
21
he’s stalling.
I don’t know why Wells is trying to pinpoint the date as June 11. That fact is toxic, because it means
1) On June 11, Martin is told by Harlow that Valerie worked for the CIA. She then goes Cheney’s office and tells Cheney and Libby that Valerie worked for the CIA.
2) According to the indictment, the NEXT day, Cheney tells Libby that Valerie works in the Counter-Proliferation division of Covert Ops. Libby believes that Cheney got this info from the CIA.
In other words, the story is going to be that as soon as Cheney found out about Valerie working for the CIA, he called the agency to find out about her, and by the next day was telling Libby exactly where she worked in the CIA.
That, to me, is pretty damning….
Is Ari a Flusher?
Fitzmas @ 21
Is Scott Shane still reporting from in the men’s room?
Great humor… made a big splash here!
Sorry if this has already been discussed but why is he calling Martin, “Miss” when she is married and she took her husband’s name. Odd.
I’m a little lost on the timeline thing too.
On a much sicker note, I found the Ari/bathroom visual oddly arousing. You can ban me now, I guess. I would.
punaise @ 24
who? Ari Flusher?
p.lukasiak @ 25
I don’t get that either, it also helps prove Grenier’s testimony that he did tell them about Plame, albeit without naming her.
p.lukasiak @ 25
No one knows here either. i thought he was trying to discount Grenier, but it appears not. Maybe just to say “you forgot for a month too?”
p.lukasiak @ 30
hey Ari: urinal the blogs now.
vachon @ 29
707
Man, maybe my bias is showing – but Wells is comin’ off like a real ass to me.
I’m surprised the judge would interrupt him and say “That’s not what she said.”
vachon @ 29
On a much sicker note, I found the Ari/bathroom visual oddly arousing. You can ban me now, I guess. I would.
OMG. so funny.
just trying to erase a bad post
choochmac @ 37
June 11, not July 11.
Rumor has it Ari tagged a stall with IMMUNITY IS IMPUNITY
I don’t get that either, it also helps prove Grenier’s testimony that he did tell them about Plame, albeit without naming her.
actually, it doesn’t confirm Grenier’s testimony that he told Libby about val…..
I think that Grenier told Harlow, and then heard Harlow tell “some woman”….
and the reason Grenier felt nervous was that, while he knew that Libby had clearances up the butt, and that Harlow had clearances up the butt….Grenier did NOT know who Harlow was talking too — all he knew was that it wasn’t Libby. And here’s Harlow blabbing about a CIA employee….
BTAIM… Grenier’s testimony is important because it shows how concerned Libby was with the issue, not that Libby knew about Valerie beforehand..
Wells’ harping on the “sometimes people forget things” meme seems so, ahem…, sophomoric. Maybe he thinks the jury is stoopid. Or maybe it’s all he’s got…?
choochmac @ 37
Then who do we point to then? Cheney, Rove
Sorry EW – I figured that out right after hitting post. Whoops!
is Harlow on the witness list?
Fitzmas @ 39
Rumor has it Ari tagged a stall with IMMUNITY IS IMPUNITY
No shit?
AP update with courtroom drawing. If you feel the need for a visual
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s…..5-14-03-33
I hope Fitz asks Cheney: “Why did you use the term ‘junket’ when you wrote notes on Wilson’s op-ed?” if only to show what an asshole he is.
“What does the term ‘junket’ mean to you?”
“When Hans Blix and David Kay went to Iraq to look for WMD, were those also ‘junkets’?”
Because a junket would be Halliburton sending Pentagon employees to the Caribbean to play golf. Not a government entity sending a former government employee to research WMD issues.
Neil @ 45
a tissue of lies
Sparkles the Iguana @ 47
I want to make this point again;
I don’t think Cheney is a lock to testify, I think only one specific scenarion has him part of this trial
if libby’s case is a lost cause, Cheney will not testify
if libby’s case is a won deal cheney will not testify
if it’s a toss up, or they think cheney can make the differance, that’s the only time he’s called
Btw, I may have gotten the timing of the first Harlow and Martin conversation–it may have been just 30 seconds total. The files should be available tonight.
punaise is off the chain. Get back on the chain !
lol
hey, guess what?
edit now works in ie…KEWL
How does Cathie Martin go back to work? This testimony, yowza. I can’t imagine going back to the office after this.
On MSNBC at very top of 3pm EST hour, they had David Schuster summarizing the trial testimony today.
He reported that the jurors were paying close attention to Martin’s testimony, were on the edge of their seats, and were writing everything down.
perris @ 49
Ed Shultz today asked the question-What if the penguin pleads the fifth?- I’d love to Fitz treat him as a hostile witness!!
Fitz: First off, Wells knows that Cathie Martin is in no position to know if Dick Cheney received a report or not. So, any answer she gives would be hearsay. Secondly, Wells is just wasting time here…. hoping that my next witness who is hanging out in the mens room gets arrested for indecency before he gets called to the stand..
RAW STORY!
Is there a public list of who donated to the Libby defense fund and the amounts they donated? Anybody know?
p.lukasiak @ 56
Secondly, Wells is just wasting time here…. hoping that my next witness who is hanging out in the mens room gets arrested for indecency before he gets called to the stand..
Stop, please… stop.
Fitzmas @
21
punaise @ 24
p.lukasiak @ 30
punaise @ 33
He heard it was the best place for a leak so now he’s in there waiting to see what will dribble out.
SIX PACK.
One of the more astonishing revelations during the first day of the trial was the revelation by Wells that as many as six government witnesses, including Ari Fleischer, who at the time of the Plame leak was White House press secretary, received an immunity deal in exchange for testimony. It was not disclosed whether Fleischer received “transactional” or “blanket” immunity, or “use” immunity, which would allow the government to prosecute a witness using evidence obtained independently of a witness’s immunized testimony. It is rare for the government to provide a witness with transactional immunity. article
If this keeps up the way it has been it will bring new meaning to the old saying,
‘The wheels of justice turn slowly but they grind exceedingly fine’.
I am hoping to see a lot of daylight shone on some seriously rot infested government officials.
Hugh @ 60
p.lukasiak @ 30
punaise @ 33
He heard it was the best place for a leak so now he’s in there waiting to see what will dribble out.
You guys are making me cry.
Bustednuckles @ 62
I think if this is going the way we think it’s going there is going to be a plea kind of sort of real soon
I see no reason why we can’t get some funding from the Iraq war supplemental. Bush got the $79 Billion he requested last year and is getting ready to ask for another $100 Billion to pay for the esclation.
Funny how many of the witnesses appeared to forget the month of June 2003 when the FBI first interviewed them and then when they were called to testify in front of a grand jury lots of memory of the events and conversations was refreshed for them. Imho, appears that they may have thunk at the time of the initial FBI investigations (was Aschcroft still on the case?) that this whole thing was going to blow over.
btw. Huge thanks again to emptywheel and the entire fdl site for performing such an outstanding job of informing the masses on the actions (past and present situation) of our gov’t in real time …it is just amazingly riveting and very much appreciated.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 47
Who “junkets” to Niger? Someone remarking about Wilson’s trip said that it wasn’t a garden spot for a vacation.(paraphrasing)
Jane S. @ 28
I don’t know anything about lawyering, so this is all rank speculation. I noticed that he made a big deal of her being no “Mary Matalin”, IOW inexperienced in her position. He may be trying to impeach her as an inexperienced airhead who didn’t really know what she was doing, ergo can’t be trusted to have a proper recollection of what happened. (On a totally unrelated note, her “remember in pictures” comment is interesting; I wonder if she has Aspie tendencies.) Clearly, the defense needs her testimony to be impeached, since they have no way of claiming that she may have an ax to grind against Cheney or Libby.
Terry Olson @ 58
The VP donated nada according to what he said to Wolf on CNN last night.
actually the bathroom humor is helping the wheels of justice spin a bit faster for me but I’m kind of a ” low-brow”.
emptywheel @ 63
hope we didn’t piss you off…. :~)
perris @ 64
I forget where the quote is, but the judge pretty much made it clear scooters committing suicide if he doesn’t testify
that’s a pretty clear indication he thinks the defense is leaving plenty to be desired
my too sense @ 66
Completely agree. I guess Libby didn’t get the memo to fess up…or he still had
somebodysomething to protect.Neil @ 65
Yeah no shit! I read that and I’m like is that jab at the deficit! I like this judge, but he an appointee by shrub.
Does Cathie Martin look like Dana Bash?
Audj @ 69
everything the vp has said has been the oposite of what came to be reality
so this means the vp surely contributed
hope this is a good time to slip this in:
From Cathie Martin II
M The next day which was Wednesday, as is typical we talk about breaking news since the previous day. Stephen Hadley raised the evening news report by Mitchell and said that there had been suggestions that WH was pushing blame to CIA and that was not helpful. Hadley said Tenet was unhappy, Hadley said we shouldn’t be saying it. About 20-some-odd people, a lot of people were on the trip to Africa. A dozen at the table and a few of us who sit behind–maybe sixteen. Who did Hadley believe was saying this–he turned around and looked at me.
F Had you spoken with Mitchell.
M Libby sitting directly in front of me. He looked down. Mr. Hadley asked me and others from the press office and Michael Anton had him join us as well, to talk about the story and told us again we should not be pointing fingers, this was not the CIA’s fault in any way shape or form. Afterwards I went to see the VP bc I thought the VP should know Hadley thought I had something to do with these reports. Spoke to VP, Scooter was there, thought we had something to do with this.”
Imagine a roomful of the President’s staff all (except for 2) wondering what the heck was going on in the newpapers. How can anyone possibly believe Libby “forgot?”
I can hardly wait for the transcripts, but this was one of the most gripping descriptions of the trial so far. Thanks so much Marcy! Sorry for the long post. Had to set the scene again.
> I think if this is going the way we think it’s
> going there is going to be a plea kind of sort
> of real soon
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t the prosecution controlling the witnesses and sequence at this point? One would expect the defense to be taking a beating with the prosecution at the wicket; if Wells is worth his fee things will look better for Libby when it is his turn.
Cranky
“Thank God for Scooter Libby and toilet seat liners” – overheard in ladies room by Ted Wells wife with her new fur laying around her ankles
I picture Scooter calling Penguin asking for money and Penguin asking “Scooter who?”
On the fourth day of Fitzmas my true love gave to me
Cathie Martin chirping
Scooter Libby sweating,
Memory defense is melting
Cheney spanking Blitzer,
Lame Duck Resolutions,
Swans don’t swim in sewers,
A deputy Director,
A CIA debriefer
And Grossman who was man number three.
Wells: “And your talking points were true at all times?”
Finish up Ari, I’m about to pee my pants laughing…
perris @ 72
From my perspective Scooter doesn’t seem to have a defense against the charges brought against him. Fitz has a parade of witnesses to prove he didn’t learn this info from Russert. Wells seems to be defending against an accusation of leaking Plame’s name to the press. My hope is that they don’t plead out until they finish throwing each other under the bus.
punaise @
33
punaise, there you go again –
note to moderator – can’t we find a spew alert symbol the nanosecond punaise appears? *G*
This is so sad:
The poor woman thinks it’s a BAD thing that she’s no Mary Matalin.
did Scotty McClellan come out of the (water) closet on The Daily Show last night?
From your keyboard to the gods of Karma.
Fitz still must convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime was committed. The jury is tilted towards being sympathetic to Scooter. I think the more Wells can muddy the water and dilute the prosecution’s case, the more it helps Libby. Fitz will need to hit it out of the park at some point, or Scooter gets acquited.
perris @ 76
If so, then the public has no right to access that information. (Cheney wouldn’t lie unless he knew he’d get away with it, or unless the fact of a contribution could be used against to impeach his testimony.) I wonder if contributions in excess of $20,000 per year are taxable under the gift tax. Ignore me. Were is Ari now. Did he evacuate?
emptywheel @ 63
well, I hope FDL is in better financial shape that the Federal Courts, because if your puter gets wet….
((((((((((Marcy)))))))))
(now stop reading the comments, and pay attention to the trial) :)
Cranky Observer @ 78
good point.
I wish that CHS would have been able to stay for all of Ms. Martin’s testimony. Maybe Pach was able to sit in this afternoon (hope).
libby’s defense won’t hold water
hey, newspaperbrat! time for me to crawl back under the work rock.
Tap Duncan @ 80
I don’t know that Cheney is so cavalier about Libby’s predicament. I think Cheney needs Libby to escape the consequences of the truth.
brianb99c @
88
Oh he wouldn’t be there if he couldn’t. We’re talking ’bout Fitz.
Okay, I won’t prattle on about the Columbus school cancellations after this. But for anyone who saw my comments in the old thread, I did find out what happened, and I’ve got a post here.
Linda @ 95
Some say he’s a bad mutha–
Shut your mouth!!
Hey, I ain’t talkin bout Fitz!
Then we can dig it.
Hugh @ 60
p.lukasiak @ 30
punaise @ 33
He heard it was the best place for a leak so now he’s in there waiting to see what will dribble out.
What a piss contest! You guys…
I forget where the quote is, but the judge pretty much made it clear scooters committing suicide if he doesn’t testify
that’s a pretty clear indication he thinks the defense is leaving plenty to be desired
actually, Walton made it clear that its “suicide” because if he doesn’t testify, he can’t use the “memory” defense (not sure why not, unless there was some kind of stipulation that Walton would allow witnesses to be harrassed mercilessly about their memory only because Libby would be testifying that he “forgot”….)
being reminded of Tenet playing the goat brings back all the disgust of this whole sorry tale. That these WH criminals were manipulating him, AND HE TOOK IT, is truly one of the lowest points in the history of the CIA.
for shame.
CNN is still trying to paint the picture that this is about who outed Valerie Plame, rather than perjury and obstruction of justice in the investigation of that other matter that is still under investigation…
emptywheel, can’t begin to thank you enough for this.
emptywheel @ 63
You guys are making me cry.
Caught red handed. He’s the leaker
Did Wells or Marcy mean Cheney or Libby asked to take…
p.lukasiak @
25
There you go.
Seconded.
She’s actually complaing about the press not buying their lies!! Priceless! That’s all that they do is lie, it’s the pot calling the kettle black!!
Is Ari finished leaking yet? Maybe his prostate needs adjusting!!
Mocha Dem @ 83
Wells’ nominal defense may be “no motive to lie” but in truth he may be going for a form of jury nullification here — remember the constant Republican refrain that there was no “underlying crime” so prosecuting him for perjury is tantamount to political persecution. He may be hoping that the jurors take pity on him as a political victim and scapegoat and acquit him despite the evidence of knowing misstatements.
Except so far Scooter doesn’t seem very pitiful, does he? I guess we’ll get the full violin treatment when the defense puts on its case.
punaise @ 93
sweet but too late – mopping up Dr.Pepper spew before the pooches go into sugar coma. :~)
Fwiw, Firedoglake’s Libby Trial coverage is being
trackedviewed by the CIA:need plumbers to fix leak re: hairi flushers
Linda @ 101
CNN has been phoning it in on every report I’ve seen them do. It would seem that they haven’t taken the time or effort to find out what the case is about. That seems par for the course on all of their reporting of late.
Please no more prostate/urinary jokes. I assure all you younger male pups that one day, too, your own bladder will be the size of thimble.
Mad Dogs @ 111
What did you expect in the land of the free and the home of the brave?
FWIW, small WH photo of Cathie Martin
Interesting no mention of Rover in the crafting of Tenet’s speach. I seem to recall him very involved.
RevDeb @ 113
They don’t want the public to know what it’s really about that is for sure…maybe Martin’s replacement is calling Wolfie…I’m sure the CIA is secretly rooting for Fitz as they observe all of this..I’ll be they feel really betrayed.
Tap Duncan @ 108
Get him some of that Flomax they keep advertising on TV. Although, why did they name it Flomax? They should have called it FloMIN.
Tap Duncan @ 115
well where in the hell do you expect them to get the truth????
I’m buying it!
Litigators, add your $.02. I can’t remember when I ever had to make that request.
Oxide
Although, why did they name it Flomax? They should have called it FloMIN.
You’re young. You’ll learn.
John Casper @ 116
“Welcome to “Ask the White House”. This online interactive forum, the first of its kind in politics, allows you to interact with Bush administration officials and friends of the White House.”
Hmm, I have a few questions for the White House.
Anybody else?
Neil @ 104
Later on it sounds like she meant Hadley.
Neil @ 122
who’s flummoxed?
Spooks want to see justice done too! :)
DMad Dogs @ 111
Neil @ 121
Poor little Scooty pooty…remember, defended Mark Rich..he’s a major neocon..there is nothing to pity about any of them..wait until they attack Iran and see how sorry anyone feels for him.
Mad Dogs, imho it’s the NSA using a CIA proxy.
p.lukasiak @ 99
He can’t use it because THE ENTIRE CIPA process was premised on the notion that Libby would testify. THey’ve said the only way–or reason–to introduce the VERY IMPORTANT data is if Libby talks about how it affected his state of mind.
John Casper @ 116
Except for her unfortunate blouse she bears an uncanny resemblence to HRC after her first makeover in Bill’s first presidental primary campaign, n’est ce pas?
Ms. Martin’s hubby is head of the FCC. (!)
Neil @ 122
I’m a woman. I already know, and I don’t even have children.
On topic, is Wells really going for a “pity the poor victim, he HAD to lie” defense? And as for “underlying crime” defense, how did that work out for Clinton? And I agree, the press STILL thinks this is about who did the leaking. And who’s “controlling the message” in the OVP now that the message controller is on the stand?
then why did Tenet take it out of the Cincinatti (or was it Cleveland) speech in Oct. 2003?
Tweety? Being mean? Is this why Scooter called Timmeh to complain?
Ugh, it suddenly occurred to me that Wells is setting this up as a call from Libby to Timmeh to complain about Tweety’s 16 words coverage, and that it was therefore a “natural” mistake for Scooter to “confuse” what Timmeh said to him with some other conversation.
Very much on topic:
EmptyWheel in her local paper. via Markos.
Marcy & Christy, you’re doing great as always. Do you have a sense of whether the MSM reporters in the media room are following what’s going on? Are they well informed about the case background?
jayackroyd @ 135
Cool article. And very much deserved accolades.
John Casper @ 116
Yes, she looks a little like Dana Bash…
If Swopa’s out there–this almost certainly relates to Ari…
punaise @
71
Don’t ROTFLAO and wet your pants.
Question about sidebars….
Are the sidebars dealing with the Libby lawyers trying to introduce classified stuff/stuff they agreed not to enter if Libby doesn’t testify? Or is it some stuff they are talking about where the lawyers are trying to lead the witness/introduce hearsay?
Also EW, does the cross examination of Libby’s lawyers seem pretty weak? It does to me…unless I am missing something.
zeppo @ 137
Hear! Hear! Thanks for the link jayackroyd!
oxide @ 132
Ok. I’m really confused. Older men sometimes have peeing problems, light stream, go frequently. Maybe that’s why Ari spent the afternoon in the bathroom.
you’re an Ari tracked, in fact, shuns.
“Older men sometimes have peeing problems.” For some of us it becomes a second avocation. Sorry for OT. (Great job FDL!)
Dammit, I dont get the AA news anymore, and missed the EW article when it originally published.
RevDeb @ 112
As Howie the Kurtz sez: It’s hard work being a journalist.
Hmm.
I think “somebody” cherrypicked the hundreds of tons of yellowcake from Niger that Iran attempted to buy (1989) and used that wording in the NIE…changing “n” to oops…”q”…
punaise@144: Oy. Oy. Oy.
How long did it take you to assemble that?
I was wondering if we were ever going to learn any more about those forged Niger documents. I hope somebody goes into that a little deeper.
Same picture,but larger
newspaperbrat @ 130
pseudonymous in nc @ 148
The Niger documents were in French.
Neil @ 143
“Ok. I’m really confused. “
Not sure about the stream, but women go frequently all their lives and get mocked for it.
Ugh, I really want to drop this topic. More important stuff to think about. :-)
On a trial note, all this objection/withdrawn is giving me visions of Sam Waterston thundering from the prosecution table.
Linda @ 153
The French colonized Niger?
Neil @ 143
Well, what’s the guy gonna do while he’s in witness limbo? Read a book… have some coffee… whups, what if they call me soon and I’m in there for a couple of hours? Better go pee. Damn, it’s been twenty minutes, I’d better go again. Ah, nothing’s happening, maybe another cup…
He’s probably been in and out of the nearest men’s room and coffee house all day long… um, I didn’t mean to imply that they’ve got a coffee bar in the john, although that would be a time-saver for the serious ‘ffeine addicts.
You think fitz will go back and question her further?
Oxide @ 154 Ugh, I really want to drop this topic. More important stuff to think about. :-)
DEAL!
The documents were in French.
James Robinson @ 150
:~) sorry ’bout the serial homonymity…I’m entering a 12-step program.
In French from Niger…
Niger became a French colony in 1922.
James Robinson @
150
Cranberry juice with that?
Bush, Cheney Et Al Hoodwinked By SPAM..?
It’s official – According to Italian officials, Embassy Of Niger Employees forged the Yellow Cake Uranium document! Sismi and Martino – with the laptop – in the Starbuck’s across the street from their Consul in Rome. refresher on forged docs
Neil @ 161
Niger – former French Colony
http://www.uiowa.edu/~africart…..Niger.html
Shuster on Hardball trying to compete with emptywheel.
“blockbuster” testimony from Cathie Martin.
Yes, the documents were in (bad) French: Amb. Wilson’s African postings covered many of the smaller francophone countries of west Africa, which is one reason why he was qualified to go there. (As I’ve responded to the ‘junket!’ wingnuts, could they please name another member of the American diplomatic corps with experience in both francophone W. Africa and Iraq?)
But I was just musing on whether it was a slip of the tongue.
Schuster first up on Hardballs
I know this could be OT, but the picture of Mrs. Martin, she looks a lot like Scooter?!?!
Nepotism, hmmm, perhaps, FWIW.
Coyoteville @ 162. Nice way to pass the time, researching such minutia due to our natural curiosity while we wait for more Libby Trial developments.
I’d have more coffee but I don’t want to encounter Ari in the men’s room, yet again. His looking at me funny and I don;t won’t to give him the wrong idea. I already switched to decaf but that helps only so much.
Do you think he’d be amused or pissed (he he) if he learned some FDL folks talked about his bathroom habits all afternoon? It’s a dirty job and we all have to do it.
Shuster emphasizing DeadEye’s interest in HARDBALL.
pseudonymous in nc @ 167
The interesting thing is that she said French (which the documents were written in), but she had not seen them..but knew they were from the Italians…go figure
RevDeb @ 168
thank you!… please post highlights for the cable-impaired (many thanks for previous postings)
Shuster is really really into this report.
bg @ 163
I believe you can buy cranberry juice from Libbys, Libbys, Libbys, on the table, table table, you will like it, like it,like it, on your ladle, ladle, ladle….
John Casper @ 171
If Cheney is such a fan of Hardball, I wonder if he watches Countdown at all? And, if so, can he really bite through nails like his pictures suggest?
John Casper @ 170
That should stroke Tweety’s ego!
Shuster was talking like he’d explode if he didn’t get all the words out. Reading the liveblogging, I know how he feels.
p.lukasiak @ 25
Add to it Kathy Martin’s own note of what she believed Harlow said to HER.
“Wells admits some of the notes hands it to her. Putting it up on screen. Her notes, on lined paper. He highlights:
‘Charge in Baghdad.
Married to a CIA agent.’
W When you said “married to a CIA agent” that is not what Harlow said to you, you referred to anyone who worked at CIA as agent. You have no knowledge that Mrs. Wilson’s job status was classified. “
So imagine that Martin tells Libby and Cheney what Harlow has said, but she says what she has written down “Wilson was Charges D’Affaires” in Iraq and his wife is a CIA agent”.
That would send red flags up to both Libby and Cheney. Martin leaves and Cheney says “I’ll look into it”. He then approaches someone in the CIA and finds out that Plame is in the Directorate of Operations, working as an officer in the CPD!
YIKES!
Tithonia @ 26
Did he wash his hands?
Sorry selise, Shuster was a real motor mouth, no way I can live blog it. AFAIK, it’s a decent high level summary of what emptywheel is providing in much greater detail.
Tweety is going to replay his clips from years ago that riled Darth. It will come later in the program.
It’s the Hardball flashback sequence, while Tweets is in… Vegas?
IIRC, Tweety has to be in Vegas to judge the Miss America contest. No, I’m not joking. I’ll try and find a link.
Trump, Miss America Press Releases confirms
M Documents we got from the French.
M Sorry. The Italians that suggested Iraq was trying to get yellowcake from Niger. At some point these documents were learned to be forgeries.
W did you find out the docts were forgeries after Wilson trip?
- – - – - – -
The Italians provided the documents. Did they forge them? Who did?
John Casper @ 181
thanks for summary! that’s all i was looking for… it’s good enough to know that he did a good job…
What are the chances that Cathie Martin is getting an imminent invitation to go hunting with Dead Eye Dick?
Neil @ 105
Or Hadley? Or all of them, but that Kathy would be let in for some things…but Hadley (who apparently believed that Kathie was an inveterate and UNCONTROLLED blabber) had to be kept in the dark.
BTW Recall that at the meeting where Hadley accused someone of talking to the media without permission, and Martin seemed tha he was looking at HER…that she mentioned that Libby boyishly looked down.
I wonder if he was rubbing his thumb???
Tweety said they were going to run clips later in the show from the summer of 03 and the tought questions they were asking people which got the OVP interested and making their own transcripts for Darth to read. SHould be interesting to take a walk down memory lane….Of course it all is a big ol toot of the horn for how ‘on the case’ Tweets was back in the day.
cinnamonape @
179
And, it has been speculated that perhaps her division was disputing the other main story that took us to war, the aluminum tube story (Condi’s story_…don’t know if any of that is true though..
John Casper @ 184 IIRC, Tweety has to be in Vegas to judge the Miss America contest. No, I’m not joking. I’ll try and find a link.
You’re GREAAT!
selise,
you are welcome to come over tonight and see the re-run of Tweety and Keith after it if you wish. Mr. Rev. is out of town and it’s just me and the cats.
aravir @ 68
Prosecution is playing a dangerous game with the ladies. Isn’t the jury mostly female?
RevDeb @ 192
i want to come over too
been an awful long 10 minute break. Hair flying in the judge’s chambers?
James Robinson @ 150
I hope not as long as it took to figure it out! :)
TeddySanFran @ 194
partay chez RevDeb!
TeddySanFran @ 193
Teddy, it’s a little far to come, but you are welcome any time you’re on the right coast.
TeddySanFran @ 194
Ari wants to know if he’s invited and whether you have a bathroom near the den.
RevDeb @ 192
man-o-man would i love to… but as soon as i can tear myself away from the toobz, i gotta figure out my weekend plans – hopefully how i’m getting to DC, how long and where i’m gonna stay…
maybe a rain check? many, many thanks!
These male defense lawyers are absolutely fascinating — e.g. “the wife,” calling Cathie Martin “Miss Martin”. Did they mock-juror this case with a gender-imbalanced jury like the jury they ended up with?
Neil @ 198
we still haven’t had a report as to whether or not he washed his hands. Until then . . . . well . . . .
Linda @ 190
I think it was one guy in CPD who was rah-rah-ing the “tubes were for centrifuges” meme. It was actually knocked down by experts in the DOE and the NRC. That’s why the tubes stuff was in the NIE summary that some in Congress saw, but the NIE summary did not include the negative comments from DOE and NRC–those were relegated to the footnotes of the complete document, which most in Congress did not see.
veslkid @
193
It isn’t the prosecution playing the dangerous game you mentioned, since, if I am not mistaken, Jane S. is referring to Ted Wells.
It’s amazing to consider that outing someone from the CIA didn’t bother Republicans. Yet they were upset beyond comprehension about the allegations surrounding Whitewater.
in other news, Senator Feinstein endorses moving the California primary to February. Wonder which hopeful will benefit by moving our primary up from June?
… i’m so addicted to emptywheel’s liveblogging… i think it’s pathological.
TeddySanFran @ 206
Terry McAuliffeThe Senator from NY.lina @ 133
Because, as Tenet wrote Hadley, the British White Paper was a load of bollocks based on the same mysterious “source” that seemed to lead to nothing for the CIA and the INR. “The President should not be a fact witness to such claims”. He said the same thing to Rice.
Hadley and others kept plugging it back into Bush’s speeches. Tenet had to take the “fall” because he didn’t catch it being smuggled into the SOTU.
Apparently the strategy [”talking points”] was to make it sound as if they were both right about the Niger deal for 500 tons of yellowcake while at the same time saying they were wrong!
Iwonder @ 81
EXCELLENT!
A pundit on MSNBC wonders if Hillary is “Too cold, too elitist” for the mountain west. Duh
Squeeze me!
Mr. and Mrs. Juice
When Vice-President Dick Cheney named Catherine Martin to replace Mary Matalin as his chief spokeswoman on Dec. 13 he made it official: Washington has a new power couple.
Cathie Martin, 34, is married to Kevin Martin, 36, one of five members of the Federal Communications Commission. They met at Harvard Law School–both are class of ‘93–and despite having been in Washington only a few years, have rocketed to the upper echelons of the capital power structure. Cathie gained Cheney’s confidence while accompanying him on political trips before the midterm elections, and Kevin helped vanquish Al Gore in the Florida recount battle.
After a brief stint as deputy chief of staff and White House liaison for Commerce Secretary Donald Evans, Cathie Martin served as Matalin’s No. 2 for the past 18 months. Before that, the University of Texas grad worked for former Texas Attorney General (now Senator-elect) John Cornyn.
Kevin Martin earned his spurs by being on the first flight to Florida from Austin the day after the contested 2000 election. As deputy general counsel to the Bush campaign, he oversaw the legal team working behind the scenes with the Dade and Broward County canvassing boards. His connections came in handy: He had clerked for U.S. District Court Judge William Hoeveler in Miami.
Now, Kevin Martin could hold the balance of power at the FCC, where he may be a swing vote in such crucial issues as deregulation of the Baby Bells. – from 2002
Sorry, I left out “too eastern”
raven @ 211
Fitzmas @ 212
Sorta nice to get a bird’s eye view of the Texas mafia….
Gotta love fdl (and emptywheel). Where else can one get trial blow-by-blow with sides of judiciously-applied snark?
Apparently the strategy [”talking points”] was to make it sound as if they were both right about the Niger deal for 500 tons of yellowcake while at the same time saying they were wrong!
Non-denial denial?
-
There’s an Oncoming Train upstairs.
So outside of any loos ends with Cathie on Monday, it will be Ari, fresh from the can!!
veslkid @ 193
This isn’t Fitzy’s questioning; defense cross is bringing it up. Fits right in with “the wife” and “Miss” Martin.
Sonoma Rus @ 104
Caught red handed. He’s the leaker
As Charmin as this stream can be, I’m beginning to get a little pissed at all this bladdering, even if you are just kidney. It’s yellow journalism and does not cervix us well.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 204
Thanks for the correction.
QuentinCompson @ 216
This is, I’m guessing, part of the power play that was going on between Rummy and the CIA. The NIE is put together by the National Intelligence Council, which is composed of principals from all the intelligence services.
The boys in the Office of Special Plans probably knew the Niger docs were forgeries, but were determined to get it into the NIE, and they could probably insist on that, with Rummy and Cheney badgering the NIC through their emissaries–and that such would be up top in the unclassified summary, and the objections of the CIA buried in the back of the original classified doc.
If Martin’s being truthful, that’s why Cheney and Libby are saying, “hey, this is the truthful version of events–it’s in the NIE.”
More Libby trial on Hardball coming up now.
Fitz????
Neil @ 23
Did you mean to say Flusher? :-?
punaise @
144
Ugh!!!
froggermarch @ 220.
As Charmin as this stream can be, I’m beginning to get a little pissed at all this bladdering, even if you are just kidney. It’s yellow journalism and does not cervix us well.
King of the puns.
Nellieh @ 67
Oh come on Niamey is a great spot to sit by the pool in your hotel and have a bit of tea.
in fact, that’s about the ONLY entertainment in Niamey. Oh that and makinf wagers on when the next sandstorm will sweep through town!
:-)
http://www.awayawhile.com/images/niamey.jpg
http://www.arm.gov/images/plannedsiteinAfrica.jpg
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Badwater @
205
cinnamonape @ 209
The 500 tons of yellowcake was about IRAN (1989)
Apparently CM perjured herself! Cooper testified that Libby spoke to him about Plame on July 12. CM flat out contradicts this. Unless Libby made another call to Cooper July 12, CM is lying. WTF is going on?
I looked up “giglio” in google. It’s a set of rules saying the prosecution has to give the defense any info it has that can be used to impeach a prosecution witness. If I understand correctly, Fitz said he didn’t have any info to hand over usable for impeaching Fleischer, because he knew so little about what Fleischer would testify.
Giglio policy: http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/readingroom/agmemo.htm
EW:
Thanks again so much for all your effort to give us the “blow-by-blow” description. It’s compelliing.
(No witnesses tommorrow, right?)
The sidebar discussion at the end was FANTASTIC. Thx. Thx. Thx. Who won Fitz?
Today, the scatalogical humor helped break the tension. It was fun. Someone check on poor Ari.
Although Ari has immunity, it is still faces a pressure situation. The poor guy has to wait until Monday.
Where?
Last thred, CM says that Libby made no mention of Plame
I’m no plameologist, but IIRC, the point was that Cathie had been frozen out of critical parts of DeadEye’s deception. The fact that Scooter didn’t mention Plame to Cathie is extremely relevant. He was only releasing it to reporters, not to Cathie.
This gets into issues of classified material, which are not the focus of this trial.
Also Fitz did not ask Martin whether she heard Cheney’s instructions to Libby aboard AF2 about what he would say to Cooper and Miller on July 12. Waas says Libby lied to investigators about these instructions. Again WTF is going on?
fdlblog @ 236
I think she also said she was on a different call herself, so she may not have heard Libby’s call.
Question for emptywheel: It’s irrelevant to the trial, but I’m kind of curious. Why DIDN’T the Shooter know about Wilson’s trip? The CIA sent him over there because Defense, State, and the OVP wanted the yellowcake story checked out. He went over, thought the story was bogus, and came back and reported it to the CIA. Condi knew all about it, didn’t she? So how come nobody ever told Cheney? Or anyone else at the OVP, for that matter?
No, read the notes from EW, last thread.CM overheard the call from Libby to Cooper. This is the call in which Cooper says Libby spoke to him about Plame. CM says Libby did not mention Plame. She’s lying.
M says Haldey looked at her when raising the question of who at the WH was talking to the press. Also says that Libby is directly in front of her, but looking down. Hadley could have been directing his gaze to Libby. (Although – this doesn’t make sense that only Martin would get frozen out of the game after that…)
Just an observation.
Fitzmas @ 164
Thanks! This pretty much puts to rest the Neo-Con claims that the two sets of documents were from different sources, one authentic and one forgeries of the authentic ones.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/n….._2,00.html
The same people were behind both the French-obtained documents, passed on to MI6…and the Italian ones that were determined rather quickly to be forgeries in October 2002 by the US Embassy in Rome. The INR did write a report on these and sent it to the CIA, NSA, DIA and the WH Operations Room…but it was roundly ignored (or filtered away).
While I’m ranting, the fact that Ari got immunity is a huge deal. His ability to spin and bullshit is legendary. TDS has nicknamed him “the Master”. But he wouldn’t talk to Fitz without an immunity deal. That’s pretty big news. Especially when we kept hearing about how everyone was cooperating. How come no one in the MSM gets this?
Prosecution is playing a dangerous game with the ladies. Isn’t the jury mostly female?
This isn’t Fitzy’s questioning; defense cross is bringing it up. Fits right in with “the wife” and “Miss” Martin.
And what gets me is that a central point Wells seems to be playing for is portraying Kathie Martin as in over her head.
The WH Press People go abroad and then the Wilson thing explodes (wait a second, wasn’t that minor?) so that Libby has to divert his attention from al Qaida, Iraq, and Tom Cruise/Penelope Cruz in order to handle something so irrelevant that Martin can’t cope with it. “you’re no Mary Matalin, are you?”
Maybe that’s what Wells is attempting to demonstrate…and why Libby just didn’t recall anything about it.
The 500 tons of yellowcake was about IRAN (1989)
Actually it was in a forged memo. There was no deal with Iran formalized with IRAN in 1999…although IRAN did approach Nigerien officials trying to make a deal…information that JOE WILSON was the one to actually ferret out for the CIA.
But the assertion that Niger struck a deal with IRAQ for “500 tons a year” was made in the notorious forged documents picked up by both MI6 (via the French), and then passed through to the US Intelligence Community, and later the Italians. The same quantity was used in all the documents and the same names and dates showed up repeatedly in them all.
BTW Iraq did obtain some smuggled yellowcake from Niger back in the EARLY 1980’s. Interestingly enough someone in the US Embassy brought this to the attention of the IAEA, which then required Niger to institute a pretty tight regimen of regulations and inspections on their mining and production facilities. The Uranium obtrained by Iraq was placed under UN seal after the 1991 Gulf War…seals that remained unbroken until the days of chaos that followed the US occupation of Baghdad.
Perhaps it’s no coincidence that a man named Joe Wilson was serving as a mid-level diplomat in Niger at precisely this time ;-) and was later made Ambassador by Reagan to another Uranium-producing African nation (Gabon) and then evenetually making his way to Iraq.
Welcome to all of the new people and the lurkers. We’ve got quite a community of brilliant people at the Lake.
While you visit, if you appreciate what you are getting from the fabulous Team FDL, please look in the upper right hand corner at the “donate” button below Hillary, and toss some $$ this way. We regulars have pitched in quite a bit of money to help this happen, help finance Marcy’s book, and help fund the very overworked servers, but Jane has footed most of the bill.
While this is a true work of patriotism, it is not underwritten by any think tank, meida outlet (though they are certainly using this resource) or sugar daddy.
Again, welcome. And if you can, contribute.
Thank you.
Neil @ 185
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/n….._2,00.html
They were forged at the initiative of a former Italian SISMI agent who was double-agenting for the French (gone free-lance). He approached two Nigeriens in Rome to obtain appropriate templates and they then photoshopped the fakes, inserting dates, names and the scenario onto real legal documents.
The templates (or items with many of the same “officials”) actually are available on-line from a French archive of Nigerien legal decrees from 1989. The 1989 date was converted to 1999. Many of the Iraqi delegation that supposedly signed the docs are members of the Nigerien Supreme Court in 1988-89. Reference numbers and references to laws are those that were in place in 1988-89…not subsequently.
It was a really bad fake that could have (and should have) been detected back in 2001/02 when it was first revealed to the MI6 , the DIA and the CIA. But they showed very little interest in actually “deconstructing” it and even prosecuting those Nigerien officials supposedly “in on the deal”. If they had they would have realized that the signatories had nothing to do with the later Nigerien government. None of it made sense, from why these officials would seek the permission of the Supreme Court of Niger to undertake a secret deal that violated international law, to how they were going to smuggle out a full 25% of their annual production of yellowcake without detection!
Fitzmas @
152
I believe that is a scarf that you are objecting to.
Neil @
155
And still own = control the uranium mining there.
selise @
207
It’s not an addiction if you don’t need to keep increasing the dosage every day. Oh, wait…
cinnamonape @ 245
Actually it was in a forged memo. There was no deal with Iran formalized with IRAN in 1999…although IRAN did approach Nigerien officials trying to make a deal…information that JOE WILSON was the one to actually ferret out for the CIA.
But the assertion that Niger struck a deal with IRAQ for “500 tons a year” was made in the notorious forged documents picked up by both MI6 (via the French), and then passed through to the US Intelligence Community, and later the Italians. The same quantity was used in all the documents and the same names and dates showed up repeatedly in them all.
BTW Iraq did obtain some smuggled yellowcake from Niger back in the EARLY 1980’s. Interestingly enough someone in the US Embassy brought this to the attention of the IAEA, which then required Niger to institute a pretty tight regimen of regulations and inspections on their mining and production facilities. The Uranium obtrained by Iraq was placed under UN seal after the 1991 Gulf War…seals that remained unbroken until the days of chaos that followed the US occupation of Baghdad.
Perhaps it’s no coincidence that a man named Joe Wilson was serving as a mid-level diplomat in Niger at precisely this time ;-) and was later made Ambassador by Reagan to another Uranium-producing African nation (Gabon) and then evenetually making his way to Iraq.
I’m sure I saw something on the Wilson report that said IRAN had attempted to purchase 400 tons of yellowcake from Niger in 1989 – it also said that Iraq had approached Niger, but that Niger would not sell to rogue nations because of the UN sanctions – in reference to Iraq, it never mentioned any tonnage.
My comment got mixed up with #251 – sorry.
I’m sure I saw something on the Wilson report that said IRAN had attempted to purchase 400 tons of yellowcake from Niger in 1989 – it also said that Iraq had approached Niger, but that Niger would not sell to rogue nations because of the UN sanctions – in reference to Iraq, it never mentioned any tonnage
Thad Beier @
250
LOL
Yes, me too. I am riveted. Thanks, Marcy!
You think he’s that hosed already? That would be some discussion I’d like to see here . . .
For those of us in Europe, perhaps we can start an end of thread phenomenon.
Shitz!
Two to the eighth!!
fdlblog @
240
I don’t know.
Why didn’t her lawyers pick it up?
Linda @ 252
I’m pretty sure that this is a reference to a “1999″ effort by Iran to purchase 400 tons of yellowcake. And the “approach” to Niger is highly ambiguous as to what the contact was about. At the same time Iraqi delegations were approaching several 3rd World nations regarding an upcoming UN vote on renewing the COMMERCIAL sanctions against to regime. Most of the nations approached had no WMD-related materials at all. The approaches were diplomatic in nature, offering the opportunity of the politicians in these countries to “visit and see what the impact of sanctions is having on average Iraqis”.
Here’s a link to the INR Report that Grossman passed on to Libby that has just been declassified for this trial. Remarkably it contains an appendix…a summary of Wilson’s trip report made by the CIA debriefer.
CLEARLY the State Department got a copy of Wilson’s report…after all…it was sent through “normal intelligence channels”. It’s surprising then that it never reached the Office of the Vice President.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..121036/158
Wilson’s conclusions were that:
A) Nigerien gov’t officials he contacted stated that there had been no contracts signed b/w Niger and any rogue states regarding yellowcake from at least 1997.
B)Ibrahim Mayaki (Niger For. Minister 1997-98; PM 1997-99) stated he was unaware of any contracts signed. He did relate that in June 1999 a Nigerien/Algerien businessman named Barka Tefridj, approached him insistant that he meet with a Iraqi business delegation for the purposes of “expanding commercial relations”
[Note: This meeting apparently occurred, not in Niger, but at a trade fair in Algiers. No meeting actually ever took place.]
Mayaki let the matter drop due to the UN commercial sanctions currently in place against Iraq. Mayaki INTERPRETED the reference to “expanding commercial relations” to relate to sales of yellowcake.
[Note: Since there was no actual contact between the delegation and Mayaki Iraq did not broach the subject with Mayaki, it’s simply his surmise].
3) Boucar (Mai Manga) [Nigerien Minister of Mines and Energy from the mid 1980’s - April 1999] stated no sales or contracts with any rogue states had occurred in his tenure. He admitted that a Pakistani delegation made an approach to purchase
“yellowcake” several years earlier, and that a Mr. Blaisher (Director General of SOMAIR and current Director at COGEMA) brought an IRANIAN delegation to him in 1998 to discuss purchasing 400 tons of Uranium ore. No deal was ever signed.
[Thus Mai Manga was forthright about two contacts with two rogue states and even mentioned an individual that was involved….although this may have been information already ferreted out by Wilson back on his prior visit for the CIA in 1999).
4) Mai Manga expressed his understanding that even a single kilogram of missing yellowcake would be detected due to tight inventory controls at the mines, and that it would be difficult if not impossible for a shipment to be smuggled to a pariah state.
Thank you so much for bringing this trial to us. This is a great service to the country. It’s better than being there. Here in Norfolk, I can’t even smell these folks sweating.
Hahahaha.
Many compliments on the narration, emptywheel.
Everybody’s read this one, right? By Joseph Wilson, The Politics of Truth:
http://www.politicsoftruth.com/default.htm
It seems that Libby and Cheney were leaking from both the NIE and the CIA report which included Wilson’s findings…but not Wilson’s name. This is made quite clear in Murray Waas’ reporting. He discusses this in relation to exactly what documents the Vice and Prez ‘declassified’ for the purpose of leaking.
It could be that the ‘wobbly’ communications people were closed out because more classified information than just the NIE was being used for leaks.
Sparkles the Iguana @
47
Niger is the second poorest country in Africa. Paris, it ain’t.