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	<title>Comments on: Reflecting on What We&#8217;ve Learned (1/24)&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Pat_AlexVA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473422</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat_AlexVA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473422</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-472872&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;*xyz @ 117&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-472860&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Pat_AlexVA @ 106 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-472778&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;cathy @&lt;br /&gt;
                29              &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I think it clearly shows the initial coverup when the FBI was first investigating this. They all thought at the time that it would get buried and nothing would getr really investigated.&lt;br /&gt;
And when it did eventually get really investigated, they had to backtrack and recant their stories.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just so I’m clear - do you think that Grenier’s story about his memory recovery is likely to be false - and instead you believe he may have initially lied to investigators and then came forward only when he realized that the investigation was heating up?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yeah.  But I’m not sure whether he lied or not, maybe he “avoided” the question.  I readily admit complete speculation here.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But if one felt guilt that he passed on Wilson’s wife and didn’t have to, I think that’d sit with that person.  Also, two levels of self preservation here.&lt;br /&gt;
1) Internalizing (personally) that it was a mistake to pass Plame’s name.&lt;br /&gt;
2) You don’t want to implicate the high level political appointee in an investigation that goes no where.  (You don’t wound a king).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-472872"><em>*xyz @ 117</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-472860"><em>Pat_AlexVA @ 106 </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-472778"><em>cathy @<br />
                29              </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I think it clearly shows the initial coverup when the FBI was first investigating this. They all thought at the time that it would get buried and nothing would getr really investigated.<br />
And when it did eventually get really investigated, they had to backtrack and recant their stories.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Just so I’m clear &#8211; do you think that Grenier’s story about his memory recovery is likely to be false &#8211; and instead you believe he may have initially lied to investigators and then came forward only when he realized that the investigation was heating up?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah.  But I’m not sure whether he lied or not, maybe he “avoided” the question.  I readily admit complete speculation here.</p>
<p>But if one felt guilt that he passed on Wilson’s wife and didn’t have to, I think that’d sit with that person.  Also, two levels of self preservation here.<br />
1) Internalizing (personally) that it was a mistake to pass Plame’s name.<br />
2) You don’t want to implicate the high level political appointee in an investigation that goes no where.  (You don’t wound a king).</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473399</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473399</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;Hegal and Webb are all the rage&lt;/b&gt; this week, because they &lt;b&gt;speak passionately&lt;/b&gt; and directly about something &lt;b&gt;they believe&lt;/b&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Take note.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Hegal and Webb are all the rage</b> this week, because they <b>speak passionately</b> and directly about something <b>they believe</b>.</p>
<p>Take note.</p>
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		<title>By: domperro</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473389</link>
		<dc:creator>domperro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473389</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-472805&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;mandrake @ 55 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Dick Cheney . . . too evil to die.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fine. I’d prefer to see Mr. Cheney remain on the planet long enough to answer for his high crimes against humanity. Regarding the public’s need to know: pieces of the puzzle are inevitably lost when the likes of Pinochet, Hussein and Cheney check out too early.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-472805"><em>mandrake @ 55 </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Dick Cheney . . . too evil to die.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Fine. I’d prefer to see Mr. Cheney remain on the planet long enough to answer for his high crimes against humanity. Regarding the public’s need to know: pieces of the puzzle are inevitably lost when the likes of Pinochet, Hussein and Cheney check out too early.</p>
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		<title>By: The Oracle</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473380</link>
		<dc:creator>The Oracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473380</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wonder how much of what has already come out in the testimony was covered/referred to/hinted at in Fitz’s pretrial filings?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In other words, based on a comparison between the two, is Fitz pretty much following the “script” of the case he’s trying to make against Libby? Or maybe it’s just too early to make such a comparison?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how much of what has already come out in the testimony was covered/referred to/hinted at in Fitz’s pretrial filings?</p>
<p>In other words, based on a comparison between the two, is Fitz pretty much following the “script” of the case he’s trying to make against Libby? Or maybe it’s just too early to make such a comparison?</p>
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		<title>By: presque vu</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473184</link>
		<dc:creator>presque vu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473184</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Would any of the prosecution’s questions be to obscure the salient point Fitz is after from the defense?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would any of the prosecution’s questions be to obscure the salient point Fitz is after from the defense?</p>
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		<title>By: oregondave</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473118</link>
		<dc:creator>oregondave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-473105&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;katie Jensen @ 245&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; . . . Hagel . . .  He’ll always vote republican first.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Exactly.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-473105"><em>katie Jensen @ 245</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p> . . . Hagel . . .  He’ll always vote republican first.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: oregondave</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473113</link>
		<dc:creator>oregondave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473113</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-473050&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;cinnamonape @ 237&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Big thing today that COMPLETELY destroys Libby’s “memory hole” defense.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The June 14th “Tom Cruise” document!&lt;br /&gt;
Context: This is a full month before the publication by Novak that “Wilson’s wife” was “behind” her husbands trip to Niger.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Despite all the cross-examination showing that Grenier has a bad memory thes comment shows that Libby was hyped about two things: Tom Cruise/Penelope Cruz’s visit (screw the potential attack by Al Qaida!) and “Joe Wilson/ Valerie Wilson”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My take also on the importance of this. Small correction here, though: it was Schmall, not Grenier.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-473050"><em>cinnamonape @ 237</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Big thing today that COMPLETELY destroys Libby’s “memory hole” defense.</p>
<p>The June 14th “Tom Cruise” document!<br />
Context: This is a full month before the publication by Novak that “Wilson’s wife” was “behind” her husbands trip to Niger.</p>
<p>Despite all the cross-examination showing that Grenier has a bad memory thes comment shows that Libby was hyped about two things: Tom Cruise/Penelope Cruz’s visit (screw the potential attack by Al Qaida!) and “Joe Wilson/ Valerie Wilson”.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>My take also on the importance of this. Small correction here, though: it was Schmall, not Grenier.</p>
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		<title>By: katie Jensen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473105</link>
		<dc:creator>katie Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;One word on Hagel as a nebraska.  Hagel is my senator.  I like his courage on Iraq but PLEASE check out his voting record before you give him too much credit.  I suspect he vying for presidency as the Anti war republican.  He votes for tax relief for the wealthy.  He voted for the act that would allow torture and make it retro to before Bush days.  He voted for the line item veto today.  He’s not my idea of a great choice other than that he is against the war. Remember he voted for the war but regretted it. He’ll always vote republican first.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One word on Hagel as a nebraska.  Hagel is my senator.  I like his courage on Iraq but PLEASE check out his voting record before you give him too much credit.  I suspect he vying for presidency as the Anti war republican.  He votes for tax relief for the wealthy.  He voted for the act that would allow torture and make it retro to before Bush days.  He voted for the line item veto today.  He’s not my idea of a great choice other than that he is against the war. Remember he voted for the war but regretted it. He’ll always vote republican first.</p>
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		<title>By: Adie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473100</link>
		<dc:creator>Adie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473100</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;perris et al at 211&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;such friendly, outgoing pups.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;any thots of having a certain amt of learning curve of self-taught chaff as price of admission to cool waters, to slow down the troooooools heh?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>perris et al at 211</p>
<p>such friendly, outgoing pups.</p>
<p>any thots of having a certain amt of learning curve of self-taught chaff as price of admission to cool waters, to slow down the troooooools heh?</p>
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		<title>By: ccmask</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473092</link>
		<dc:creator>ccmask</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/reflecting-on-what-weve-learned-124/#comment-473092</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-473006&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Valley Girl @ 230 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-472997&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;cleter @ 226&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;ccmask&lt;br /&gt;
Does your glossary include trexing?&lt;br /&gt;
I haven’t seen anybody actually get trexed in a while, but still. I recall the very thread where the term “EPU” was coined. Ah, those were the days…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;re: trexing- ah, that was good while it lasted.  But mods are so busy these days, what with all the traffic and all, it’s a charming thing from the low traffic past!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, I have t-rexing.  I remember those days lol&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-473006"><em>Valley Girl @ 230 </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-472997"><em>cleter @ 226</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>ccmask<br />
Does your glossary include trexing?<br />
I haven’t seen anybody actually get trexed in a while, but still. I recall the very thread where the term “EPU” was coined. Ah, those were the days…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>re: trexing- ah, that was good while it lasted.  But mods are so busy these days, what with all the traffic and all, it’s a charming thing from the low traffic past!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, I have t-rexing.  I remember those days lol</p>
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