Okay, so our intrepid courthouse duo, Marcy and Christy, are still getting tanked relaxing after a long day watching the wheels of justice turn, so let's take this opportunity to engage in some open-source Plameology.
Thanks to Marcy/emptywheel's flying fingers, we've been able to read not just summaries of both sides' opening arguments, but paraphrased testimony from the first three witnesses — Rex Marc Grossman, Robert Chenier, and Craig Schmall. What do we know now that we didn't before the day (or the trial) began? Is it possible to tell who's "winning" so far?
Please use this thread to compare notes and hash out your theories, and if Christy and Marcy make bail have the time and energy, we'll see what they have to share later tonight.
(P.S. Thanks to Pach, here's David Corn's take on the day in the courtroom, in case you're interested.)
Related posts:
- What We Learned from the Supplemental: If Obama Wants a Public Plan, the Blue Dogs Will Do It
- Lessons Learned in VA and NJ: Is Rahm Emanuel Orchestrating 2010 Democratic Massacre?
- Things I learned from a teabagger.
- Marcy Wheeler on Torture Prosecutions: Liveblog At NN09
- Christy Hardin Smith: Live on CSPAN
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Kazuza
Omniscience. BAAAABBBBBBBY. (Me, I haven’t read the post yet).
Finally managed not to get EPU’d, eh?
Sorry, I missed everything today. (Work :-( ). More to do still, but maybe later I can get a glass of wine and page through it all. Many, MANY thanks for that opportunity.
Swopa @
3
And now everyone else is automatically EPU’d, while the thread is still in single digits!
First of al can I say how awstruck I am by the Job Christy and Marcy are doing?
Marcy muct have the fastest fingers in Christendom!
This is going to change the way news is covered. More and more folks are going to want their news “straight”. It is hard to put much slant, or bias, ,or spin on the ball when you are typing as fast as you can just to keep up.
I can only imaginf how exhausted they are. Remember ladies, this is a marathon not a sprint. Take care of yourselves.
(((Hugs)))
I don’t care if I am not first, I am just thrilled to be in the first 30 comments. I am always discoverying a great thread just minutes before EPU time.
My opinion, for what it is worth (pennies), is that I sometimes lose why the prosecution puts these 3 men on the witness stand. The defense just seems to be set on talking about how busy they all were. Well, that is their defense, so no wonder. But what the heck did Fitz want to bring forth. I have no clue from his questions.
The fact that I am lost in the weeds here, tells me I would make a terrible juror. And that, Mr. Swopa, is what I have made out of today.
I’ve missed everything today. I’m looking forward to the summaries. I’m at work right now, so I don’t have time to go through all of Marcy’s excellent work. Anyone care to give me a quick overview?
Amazing work by Christy and Marcy. It’s hard work to read in the midst of work and life but nothing like the intensity of what they are doing. Thanks!
Seems like the defense is starting off pretty aggresively, but then I don’t have a lot of experience…true for anyone else?
And what Japanese film is the image at the top of this post from?
TRex @ 8
See the David Corn post.
TRex – you don’t want my summary. All I read was that the three witness were busy but don’t remember much. But they did talk about how Libby was quite anxious about Wilson. Heh, maybe that is why Fitz put them on. Who knows… oh, that’s right. Christy and Marcy know.
GrandmaJ @ 7
If only the OVP would have been as interested in whether or not Iraq had WMDs as they were in discrediting Mr. Wilson…
The impression is that it stretches credulity to Mars and back to think that Rove and Cheney didn’t know precisely what Libby was up to. As if these guys were going to leave the Plame/Wilson sabotage up to Bush. I don’t think so. The Prez in not the ‘Decider’. He’s the great delegator.
crap
i can’t edit my comments anymore since IE7
everything else works OK
my reply to GrandmaJ ended up embedded in the blockquote
O.T. but ultimately part of the same “brew.” The word out there (via Huffington and others) that Murdoch is looking to buy the Chicago Tribune and the L.A. Times takes us back again to the issue of media, facism, non-journalist ideologues etc. Yesterday the Globe put out the word they were closing down 3 international sites with correspondents (Jerusalem among these) because of cost factors. They noted that the NYT (who owns them) and others will take up the flack. The Globe has been much more even handed in covering the Middle East and basically a chunk of that voice will be gone as they rely on other sources. Media is key to all of this mess (Timmy and Judy for example). The Dems need to take this on seriously. Ironically the NYT is blaming the Web for subscription lists being lower. Wrong, if they would put out viable journalism this would not be a problem. Plus I think the key web issue is that more and more people are looking at the web for employment (not the classifieds).
GrandmaJ @ 7
it looks like they conspired to forget or confuse
Mark at 13 – you are so right. Fitz will tie a pretty red bow on the case. And the light bulb will come on for me. Patience …
Yeah, it is possible to tell who is winning. The prosecution is winning. The prosecution is always winning. And I even “believe” in our justice system. The point is that most criminals are convicted – for many reasons, but typically b/c they are guilty, and the laws, rules and regs of Crim Pro favor the prosecution, inter alia.
Again, you can place too much import (or meaning, I think they are synonomous), at least with respect to the actual trial of Scooter for the specific crimes, by parsing it to death.
That’s different from saying you aren’t going to learn interesting facts about the actions of Chimpco as a whole or specific players with respect to the war, lying about the war or the outing of Plame.
A criminal trial (at least one like this), isn’t this great back and forth where one side is up and the other is down and it depends who got to ask questions last. It’s much more linear, and boring, than that.
Swopa – When I want.
Wonder what Olbermann will have to say tonight about the ‘Bush yawn’ (speech) last night?
It looks from here like Fitz is trying to set up a context: These are the expected meetings, the usual channels, the departments involved. This is the material they handle and how they handle and prioritize it. If Libby perjured himself and there’s no simple way to catch him red-handed, the way to differentiate it from mere forgetfulness is to establish a pattern of “mistakes” that suggests a motive. The way to do that is to set a background against which the pattern would stand out as unusual or contradictory in a way that is consistently self-serving.
IANAL, of course, but that’s what I’ve taken away from this so far. Another possibility is that Fitz is calling each witness to verify one or two highly specific pieces of data that he needs to assemble or strengthen his case, and we can expect a lot of seemingly minor testimony from seemingly minor players whose significance isn’t obvious until Fitz starts putting the pieces together.
Fitz is doing what good lawyers do … building a case. Libby isnt charged with having a bad memory. He’s charged with perjury and false statements. No witness will have a ‘perfect’ memory, but at the end of the prosecutions case it will be Libby vs. a cast of a dozen whose impressions, memories, and notes will all tell the same tale.
Wells is doing what good defense lawyers do. He is trying to muddy the waters and say “See they forgot to! Libby just forgot.” But Libby didn’t ‘forget’ – he made up a story. And then when it was proven wrong, he resorted to “I forgot”. That is the key difference.
Kate O’ on “Hardball”. Mute.
My sense, based on contemporaneous read-throughs of marcy’s spectacular work, is that the defense harps on MEMORY a lot. There’s lots of “independent memory” and “recollected memory” questions of prosecution witnesses.
Who, we’re supposed to believe, were also very important and very busy — none so much as Libby, though.
I did like the impact of 1)getting a message slip about a telephone call from the OVP’s office for the first time and 2)getting pulled outta meeting with the DCI to talk to Scooter about Wilson et al. Those are clearly memorable moments, and speak directly to the lack of time Scooter devoted to the Wilsons (NOT).
James Robinson – Your second paragraph is on target. Although, given your post, the purpose might be more obvious then you think.
Was just watching the Wolf Blitzer interview of Darth Cheney, and I have come to the conclusion that the VP is a real friggin’ a**hole. How does he sleep?
I think it clearly shows the initial coverup when the FBI was first investigating this. They all thought at the time that it would get buried and nothing would getr really investigated.
And when it did eventually get really investigated, they had to backtrack and recant their stories.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 25
Do they still allow her to comment on Iraq without mentioning that her husband staffed the CPA with red-blooded young GOP anti-abortionists?
Got EPU’d, but these Alaska soldiers, killed in 2007, didn’t need to be – killed or EPU’d:
2007-01-20: Spc. Jeffrey D. Bisson
2007-01-20: Spc. Toby Olsen
2007-01-20: 1st Lt. Jacob Fritz
2007-01-20: Pvt. Shawn Patrick Falter
2007-01-20: Sgt. Phillip McNeill
2007-01-20: Pvt. Jonathan Millican
2007-01-20: Sgt. Sean Patrick Fennerty
2007-01-20: Bryan Chism
2007-01-15: Spc. Jason J. Corbett
2007-01-05: Spc. Jeremiah J. Johnson
2007-01-04: Staff Sgt. Charles D. Allen
Evil Parallel Universe @ 20
its early i don’t know how much more i can take. the excitement and addiction to live-blog is an adreneline pumper. each fact, clue,personality, surprise, is unbelieveable. i have followed this since i first read wilsons oped and saw him on mtp. finally fitzmas
race on over to salon.com for this. or, not:
I’m cleaning my plate tonite to get ready for Cathie Martin tomorrow.
Looks like (with not enough info) that Murdoch wants Newsday for Long Island to leverage/extend the “footprint” of the Post, with the Chandlers getting the LA Times. Maybe. Lots of questions here—let’s see what the LAT says in the morning…
Got an email today (while Kerry was speaking on the Senate floor) from Ted Kennedy. It had the unfortunate subject line: HE HAD HIS CHANCE, altho it referred to W. Do our MassPups have a sense of who their Senators K&K might support in the Grand Struggle for our party’s presidential nomination?
On the NewsHour just now there was one of those 2 Senators representing the two sides thing. This time, however, the roles were reversed. Joe Lieberman the faux Democrat speaking up for war and Chuck Hagel the Republican speaking against.
Joe blathered on for most of it, but Hagel nailed him when Joe said They should just vote to withhold funds if they are serious about ending the war. Hagel said, That’s just a false choice. I for one am always glad when someone recognizes a strawman for what it is.
Hagel was asked about Cheney’s statement on CNN today that the American public doesn’t have the stomach for the war. Hagel said it was sad that Cheney had so little faith in the American people. He pointed out that Americans have already paid high costs for Iraq.
Lieberman repeated the give war a chance bit on Bush’s latest plan. 4 years of failure and the war party still feels like they deserve more time.
The impression here, is the the ‘loss of memory defense’, barring nullification, will not work. The defense would perhaps be overjoyed if at some point a mistrial were declared or, maybe better, a hung jury.
Cheney on CNN. For once, I am speechless.
Gee judge. That bank I’m charged with robbing last year; I forgot all about that. Not guilty.
Good summary by David Corn.
Someone should tell him is server is eating all comments.
The point is that most criminals are convicted – for many reasons, but typically b/c they are guilty, and the laws, rules and regs of Crim Pro favor the prosecution, inter alia.
If they weren’t convicted they wouldn’t be criminals would they?
LoudounLib @
28
Not sure “how”, but I’m pretty sure the “where” involves a coffin.
Hillary is mad at Obama. The very idea. He’s running, after all. Isn’t he!
Nor Cal John @ 43
ROFL!
Dick’s bipartisan effort:
BLITZER: Do you think Hillary Clinton would make a good president?
CHENEY: No, I don’t.
BLITZER: Why?
CHENEY: Because she’s a Democrat.
Nice.
I agree with annx at 4:40 (24)
Fitz is making his case, which is that Libby lied to the Grand Jury.
Defense is trying to get the jury to forget that the charges are about lying and obstruction and muddy the water with all this “bad memory” stuff.
Bachman pawing The Chimp.
I’m kinda thinkin that Fitz is settin it out there that if, so far the first three witnesses etal, regardless of their own memory issues, were busy collecting info for Scoots, there could be no way that Scoots didn”t remember.
punaise — ugh. Bromwell’s an apologist; that bit smells of sales job. Surprised Salon carried it.
Scooter’s tragic innocence my left arse cheek.
mandrake — wasn’t Wolfie’s interview of the Dark Lord of DeadEye horrific? God, I want to bleach my eyes after that. DeadEye is clearly inhuman save for his weirdly normal paternalism towards his spawn. Makes me wonder if that was the point, though, to make him look more twisted so that he is readily jettisoned with little stress (DeadEye’s choice, mind you, because he’d fight to the bloody nubs otherwise).
FWIW, Fitz seems to be doing a bangup job of showing several things all at once.
–Several gov’t workers told Libby that Valerie was CIA before he ever talked to reporters on the subject. Subcontext to this one is that, so far, no one has testified that Libby tried in any way to find out if she was covert before getting all chatty about her. That’s technically not relevant to the case, but I bet it’s going to strike the jurors as being criminally sloppy.
–It was a topic of great and urgent interest to him, again, before he ever talked with reporters.
–He had a motive to lie about it.
My only concern is that the members of the jury will walk out of the courtroom confused about what they heard. In closing statements Fitz will no doubt be reminding them that they heard all these people say they told Libby about Wilson’s wife being CIA, but the jurors are going to remember hearing a bunch of talk about whether the witnesses remember actually doing that.
Thoughts?
The Hill strategy against Obama according to “Hardball”: Strangle his money supply.
lolo – I’m not saying the trial isn’t interesting AND important – it is both. And I’m not trying to dissuade anyone from spending every waking hour following it.
But with respect to the specific crimes for which Scooter is charged and how that aspect of the trial is giong to play out, it is no different from any other “white collar” federal criminal trial, and the gov’t presents it case the same way and the defense presents it case in the same way, and the person is, 9 times out of 10 (if not more), convicted.
I guess if I have a complaint, beyond the delving in to the lacunae, is that the trial is sort of being presented as a game (pick your sport), and I don’t think they are, at least with respect to federal white collar criminal prosecutions.
Raven – That’s actually not true. People guilty of crimes aren’t always convicted. But the real point is that a jury has to find them guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, which is different from saying they didn’t do it.
Dick Cheney . . . too evil to die.
Just found this interesting PAC website… http://www.bornfighting.com/
Didn’t know about it ’til now.
Oklahoma kiddo @
52
I just heard that. What kind of Democracy buys a Presidency?
Made me wonder if she did start the Madrassa rumor
mandrake @ 48
Bizarre.
Got it.
Evil Parallel Universe @
54
Ed*ard Teller, IIRC there’s an Alaskan reserve group that’s are on extended tours as well as some that were essentially flipped around for another tour. Yes?
I wish every local paper and TV featured every local death and injury on the front page or evening news. First story, headline, above the fold.
INR Memo – June 13, 2003 (Report on Wilson Niger trip)
Keith!
KO making the Bachman/Katherine Harris comparison.
LoudounLib @ 28
http://www.cultnews.com/wp-con…..offin.jpeg
Sorry.. couldn’t resist.
GrandmaJ @ 7
That Libby knew ALLLLLLL about Wilson long before he claims to have learned it from Russert.
he says he forgot it and re-learned it “as if new” from Russert on a Thursday, but had mutiple converstions about it on the Monday and Tuesday of that same week. Oh and lots of worrk on it even before those conversations
Hillary on Olbermann. This is going to be rough on this Demo. Stressful too perhaps.
FWIW
I have a different opinion as to why Well’s dropped a turd in Rover’s punch bowl. To me Rover is the key witness, or non-witness, in Libby’s defense. I still believe that Rove is a cooperating government witness being held back by Fitz for bigger and better things(Cheney).
I think Fitz is sitting back almost daring Scooter to call Turdblossom as a witness. Remember Rover has been before the GJ five different times and you can bet Fitz can tell you where Rover took a shit during the entire time of this investigation. This is information which is not available to Well’s because Fitz has no intention of calling Rove, hence he does not have to provide shit to the defense.
At some point in time Scooter and Well’s will have to decide whether to roll the dice and call Rove, or pass. My gut tells me that if Scooter and his team feel they are in trouble, they will call Rove and unleash a mighty shit storm the likes of which Washington hasn’t seen since Butterfield mentioned a taping system in Nixon’s office.
Just some food for thought.
Blub @ 64
the stakes are high.
Damn, Hagel pointing both fingers at the Repubs.
Webb on!
TeddySanFran @ 36
My sense is Obama. Both are really against the war, and on many things voted very differently than Hillary.
Thanks EPU. I’m glad that I have a pretty good sense of where things are.
WRT “the wife”: It seems that testimony has established not only that Libby heard of Valerie’s employment at CIA through CIA/intel channels before he heard it from any reporter, but pace Larry Johnson that there’s nothing even exceptional about that. At the clearance levels involved here, something like an agent’s undercover status at CIA is “merely” SECRET, not (say) SCI. Which establishes a subtext that lots of people with clearance to know knew this, and somehow it didn’t get out to the press until senior members of the Administration leaked it. That makes their leaks exceptional in character.
I’m trying to figure out where Wells is going, beyond the general strategies of loading a shotgun with narratives and shooting the jury in the face while doing everything possible to make the prosecution’s witnesses look scatterbrained and their testimony nothing more than hearsay.
Specifically, Wells’ team seems to be harping on the idea that someone’s memory or testimony could improve after an FBI interview. How many people have been put on the spot in a situation and then thought of any number of facts and arguments and pithy metaphors that they should have used after it’s all over? This happens on dates, never mind sessions with law enforcement, so I don’t see how the jury will buy this line that it’s so odd that someone would remember something now, after all the trial prep, that didn’t come to mind when they took time off work to sit down with Good Cop and Bad Cop.
The other strategy seems more effective: If Fitz is calling these people up to recall minutiae, then I suppose there’s some logic in fashioning a set of questions to show that the witnesses cannot recall any given minutia(?) on command.
I have to admit that I have no idea what Cline was getting at. He’s obviously on board for a highly specific reason, because his questions–which read more like statements punctuated with pauses for a “yes” or “no” from the erstwhile witness–were particularly targeted and precise, if esoteric enough that I’m not sure what he’s driving at.
At least on Iraq, I like Chuck Hagel. On this issue I much prefer him to Clinton.
Fitzmas @ 61
Thanks, “Fitz.” Looking at the memo, I think the WSG = whole government commentary today was based on a Marcy typo… the acronym appears to be USG (U.S. government).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 52
Interesting because NYT ran a piece today saying that Clinton had a lock on funds, because of NY fundraising (AIPEC-linked?????)
Blub @ 64
Blub, that was great!
If the ‘08 election were held tomorrow and the choice was between Hagel and Clinton, this life long proud Democrat would be sorely tempted for the first time ever, to vote Republican. Now, if Pelosi were running, that would be entirely different.
Swopa @ 73
we got gypped!
Swopa @ 73
Damn, and here I thought it was “whole secret government.”
Anybody got any use for a slightly used tinfoil hat? Anyone?
Hi all,
Richard Wolfe on KO saying that the WH is setting up a constitutional clash. well, duh.
Hagel is getting a lot of focus today. Not a bad thing IMO.
And don’t know if anyone else wrote about it, (it will take me a while to catch up) but the piece that the CNN guy did about the trial a while ago was phoning it in based on the Rove shiny thing. He and Blitzer SO don’t get it—or don’t want to.
Richmond @ 74
That sounds plausible here.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 52
Hillary’s effort to stockpile cash is reminiscent of how Bush got out so far ahead going into the primaries when he first ran for president.
All the biggest donors put their money on Bush – early.
Bush wound up struggling against McCain a bit, but ultimately his huge stash of money and his attendant aura of inevitability helped to carry him to the nomination.
He was also helped by several sleazy whispering campaigns in South Carolina, but that is a story for another day.
raven @ 42
I NEVER thought it was that simple. I worked in law enforcement and public safety for 13 years, sending many people to prison.
Most people indicted for criminal violations are convicted. The less money the indicted person has, the more often this ends up being the case. But many, many people egregiously involved in criminal conduct are never investigated or indicted. Hundreds of “criminals” are protected every day by other crinminals who are law enforcement officers prepared to protect such conduct. Alberto Gonzales comes to mind, for some reason. Abu G is the ultimate “brown-bagging cop on the take.”
The chances of being indicted for illegal conduct is significantly higher if one is Native American, Black or Latino. Any minority receives a significantly longer sentence for a similar violation commited by a white person.
I’ve knowingly broken laws – donating money to organizations loosely affiliated with Hamas, illegally sneaking onto the Hanford Reservation to take accurate radiation leakage readings from places like N Reactor Springs, etc. But I don’t consider such acts to be “criminal” because they are intended to save lives.
Justin Raimondo at antiwar.com has a great article on the bigger picture that links back to the great coverage here:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10384
O K about the money thing and Clinton and Obama, all I could think of while I watched it was hoping we all were excited enough about one “not Hillary” to round up the net roots and go after her. Midday round up on Big Orange has this tidbit:
From his mouth to . . . a progressive in the WH!
annx @ 24
Exactly.
Libby made up a story.
And Libby’s story just so happened to pin the blame for the leak on reporters who he knew would fight to avoid testifying regarding their sources.
The prime witnesses in the case against Libby for the specific individual crimes of perjury are journalists – journalists who Libby expected would be able to avoid testifying. A logical inference is that Libby’s “story” was constructed to take advantage of journalistic source confidentiality constraints.
I hope Fitzgerald finds a way to bring this to the attention of the jury.
I think there is a determined effort underfoot on the part of the Clintonistas to beat the crap out of progressives. Am I being paranoid here?
Teddy in San Fran @ 20 makes the points I think are important.
I wasn’t able to keep up with today’s liveblogging of testimony due to that thing called Work. But I did slog through the thoroughly amazing handiwork of emptywheel’s post.
My impression is that Fitz is establishing (and remember some of this is backed up by documentation-such as the memo from the secretary with Libby’s tel number on it) a series of times Mr. Libby contacted individuals in ways that were out of the ordinary for them…those are memorable for them. Remember these dates and times of the contacts were well before those crucial and disputed July dates that Libby used in his testimony. So in that angle Fitz is establishing a credible interest of Mr. Wilson and the trip by Libby weeks before Joe’s actual op-ed.
On the other side, the tedious nature of the cross examination is dealing with the memory issues, and also establishing the very important jobs strategery(hello Tom Cruise and scientology in Germany are veryyyyy important issues Mr. Libby was dealing with)…but common sense tells me those things are just whitenoise in the ultimate series of events dealing with the key issue. So far 3 witnesses have said Libby inquired about the trip and there are even more to come….there’s a pattern here. And the defense needs to be careful because after a while arguing or disputing the minutae of the exact wording of some details or badgering witnesses about the same thing over and over begins to turn people off (the jury)especially once a pattern clearly is/has been established here. There’s a fine line there and the defense is treading close to it with this strategery. Libby clearly asked several different people here(so far) for info about Wilson’s trip in ways memorable to these witnesses. And in one instance even asked for permission from Grenier/Harlow to tell the press this inquiry came from State and not the OVP. Libby clearly had a keen interest in this issue.
But I’ll keep an open mind and see how the rest of this plays out. That is just my take so far on the trial.
Are trial transcripts going to be released anytime soon, i.e. while the trial is still in progress? Have any been released already?
With all due amazed awe at FDL’s live coverage of the trial, I’m more interested in their interpretation and analysis of what’s going on, including describing the Meaning Of It All in the context of their extensive background knowledge, than in the mere semi-verbatim play-by-play that probably comes across better in the transcripts. Yes the real-time liveblogging is irresistable to junkies who can’t get their info fix soon enough but I think it’s ok to condense it quite a bit and save energy for analysis, especially if transcripts are coming.
I’ll say this for Hill. She’s absolutely ruthless, when necessary.
Coverage today has been so good, I want to hug you all. When I think of how excited I used to be to get the newspaper and read a little tidbit about Watergate…!
Drink up, ladies, and soak your hands. You’ve done a great job.
Light a Candle
RevDeb @ 84
;0)
Hillary coming up soon on Olbermann. I’ve got my seat-belt on.
Off Topic I missed the udate on Jane
Oklahoma kiddo @ 86
No.
As Atrios says, this has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
RevDeb @ 94
Occam’sRodham’s razorClinton talking about finding “common ground” with the GOP. This sort of talk could make me angry.
I live in Michelle Bachmann’s district. UGH. I have received 10 emails from local dems regarding this and that there are several polls out in the field on whether Bachmann went out-of-bounds in her ..ah..enthusiasm.
And at TPM I saw that this is not the first time she has ‘gushed’ When bush was in MN she rode with him in a car. She said that Bush was filled with humility and that the people were enthralled to have him wave back.
UGH.PUKE.CHOKE. What an idiot. This is being picked up by local newscasts and by local papers. This is NOT going away.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 96
I’m with you fellow okie.
My take is that the Schmall testimony was the most effective, as he had taken notes on June 14th, clearly indicating that both Wilsons had been part of the exchange, and therefore less susceptable to the “memory defense” challenges.
GrandmaJ @ 97
Time to design the buttons and the float. Keith and CT Bob will tell you how.
*xyz @
81
That’s pretty much the strategy of the bigwig inside-track candidate every time. Scare people with the war chest. Reagan in 80, Mondale 84. Doesn’t always work, though. Odious TX Sen Phil Gramm raised a titanic amount of money in 96, only to get humiliated in the 1st couple of primaries. I think that could happen to Hillary. Obscure candidate from nowhere–wasn’t even included in some of the early polls–Jimmy Carter did pretty well in 1980. Bill Richardson could be Carter this time. Hell, we’ve got lots of Carters this time.
Has Hill become a facilitator of “the vast right-wing conspiracy”?
GrandmaJ
Keith is going to replay the Bachman hug too. Rub a little salt into it.
steelthing @ 98
;0)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 102
3 words:
Military Indu$trial Complex.
cathy @
29
I agree.
Here’s what I learned — and what I think Fitzgerald is putting out there –
That Libby heard from multiple GOV’T sources — NOT the media — about “the wife.”
And that he learned about “the wife” way, way, way before Novak was putting pen to paper.
Oh, and I also learned that PNAC cult member and compensatory macho-man warmonger, Irving Libby, was really really enamored of meeting Scientology cult member and compensatory macho-man Top Gunner, Tom Cruise.
Those are my two main take-aways today.
Oh and here’s some teensy bit of advice for Marcy and Redd and all other Plame House support staff — when you enjoy your well-deserved grain beverages, be sure to also swallow plenty of Vitamin C tabs (Ester C is great, not acidic, won’t upset the tummy) and other necessary vitamin-mineral supplements. [Well, maybe swallow them with water when having a meal — don’t know if taking supplements with beer is a good idea or not.]
You two are invaluable to us FirePups — please keep your resistance to colds and flu and such up to snuff!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 104
I’m with you too. I didn’t vote for bipartisan hand-holding. I wanted a legislature that would say “hell no” to the ‘Licans when needed. If I want a church social I’ll go to a goddamned church social. Congressional Democrats! You won! You’re a majority! Stop being ashamed! Listen not to the Clintonians!
gonna throw a little cold water down, please forgive
so far this reminds me somewhat of watching a boxing match…whoever I put money on is always winning the fight until I see the score cards…some times the fix was in and I was wrong, but sometimes I was just wrong and my fighter didn’t really win
when it’s my fighter, all his punches that graze look like solid points, some of the solid points from his opponent look like grazes
what I think is blocked, my friend who bet the other way is sure it landed
please beware, k?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 102
yes
RevDeb at 100 – re Bachmann – one email already mentioned a float and buttons. Of course, the following email said we should be careful and not offend. The democrats in our district are just waking up. But I guess not awake enough to speak against Bachmann.
But others will. :)
ember @
14
And with ruthless indifference to the safety of a career CIA officer, her top secret networks and her young children.
Haven’t read anything recently about the Wilson’s civil suit – any news on that front?
RevDeb @ 105
4 words:
Congressional Military Indu$trial Complex.
http://sonyclassics.com/whywefight/main.html
*Ike changed it just before the speech.
Mrs. K8, Just wanted to give you an update on the Richardson/women smear. Tied to the Hilary machine, like prolly the Obama stuff, see related above.
GrandmaJ @ 111
Hi neighbor- Did Bachman win by a wide margin?
Hey, will somebody who knows Keith Olbermann please tell him Jimi Hendrix didn’t die of a heroin overdose?
That, and the disdain in his voice while talking about Jimi, is inexcusable!!
Pat_AlexVA @ 106
Just so I’m clear – do you think that Grenier’s story about his memory recovery is likely to be false – and instead you believe he may have initially lied to investigators and then came forward only when he realized that the investigation was heating up?
newspaperbrat @ 112
It waits in the wings until after the criminal case is over.
none (88) — there are other websites for your purposes. David Corn’s, for example, or TAPPED.
Knock yourself out. Or use a blog reader and skim the posts for the ones that suit you.
We’re supporting the preeminent Plameologists and Plamemaniacs in their need for every nit and gnat here. I, for one, am very eager and extremely grateful for the play-by-play from persons I trust implicitly; they provide this service with color and immediate commentary, where government transcripts are slower and do not come with comments about errors, omissions, etc.
This is my assessment as well. Why didn’t Libby inquire? Why didn’t Fitz press Schmall and Grenier if there was any precedence for such behavior by Libby? No doubt, there is not a single precedent. Was it because Libby did not want to know? Was it because too deep an inquiry by Libby would interfere with the imperatives of the smear campaign? Was it because it would constrain them from pursuing their single-minded fanatical desire to destroy their enemies? This seems to me the points Fitz should be pressing.
She makes me angry for sure. I want to go back to the White House cos I just do…yech
John Lee Hooker 1970, San Francisco
Tantalizing The Blues (MCA 1686)
Look-a here, I’m gon’ tell you a story
About two friends, whom I known
And the whole world know’d ‘em
The one and only, Jimi Hendrix, and Janis Joplin
Who passed on, from the needle
They o.d.’d
Ah what a big loss,
to this wonderful world
’s sad
Dope addicts, dope addicts
You better watch yourself
Dope addicts, dope addicts
You got to watch yourself
You one of these days, one of these days
You might pass on
Stop shootin’ no needle,
and stop swallowin’ that LSD
Stop shootin’ no needles,
and stop swallowin’ in those pills
That needle’s too heavy,
your heart can’t take it none
Hey hey
I know, so many young folks,
they’re hooked, they’re doomed to die
So many young folks,
they’re hooked, they’re doomed to die
You better try and kick it,
but you can’t last long this way
Yeah
Drug addict, drug addict
You better wake up and get wise
Drug addict, drug addict
You better wake up and get wise
Your days are numbered, your days are numbered
Your day you just don’t know
You better try and kick it
You better try and kick it
That needle is too heavy for ya
It’s too heavy
Hey, it’s too heavy
It’s too heavy for your heart, for your heart
Hey hey
It’s too heavy
It’s too heavy
You better kick it right now
I know you better kick it
I know it’s hard
You better suffer and kick it
You better suffer and kick it
You got to suffer some
To kick
Hey, it’s too heavy for you
Dover Bitch @ 116
De-lurking. Thanks to Christy, Marcy and Pach – outstanding coverage! If the rumor is true that Fitzgerald has been given a pink slip as US Attorney, Illinois will be the poorer for it. Thanks, if Team Fitz is reading, for all of your hard work. I disagree with others who think he’s out with Republicans across the board – the creeps associated with this administration, yes, but there are Republicans out there disgusted by this administration, some of them in Congress standing against the president now- and I hope they would consider Fitzgerald and Comey – for positions in the future.
ReneND said
I should know this, but I don’t. I don’t think it was a squeaker. My guess is was between 5 and 10 points. I will check it out and get back to you. Patty Wetterling really fought in the last days, but those calls in the last 2 days (happened many other states), some disparaging Patty, and some pretending to be Patty saying ugly things. It was horrible. She was ahead and then fell quite a bit behind in the last days.
Of course John Lee may have been wrong
raven,
Well John Lee Hooker is dead, so I don’t have to ask him for a correction. But Jimi Hendrix died of asphyxiation after he took a bunch of sleeping pills and drank too much wine.
bg –
Hi there! Thank you.
Did you write about this with some detail in another thread? Or are you about to tell us more?
If what you say is true, then that would seem to reflect in an interesting way on Steve Clemons.
Hmmm.
The comments to Steve’s post with the allegations on Richardson are themselves very, very interesting. I’ll have to go back and see if anyone’s said anything about Hillary since the last time I peeked there.
If you have specifics, please tell!
fdlblog @ 120
I don’t think I agree. The counts against Irving are perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements. The issues about Ms. Wilson’s status would be relevant if they were going for the IIPA or other charges. Remember the sand in the eyes of the umpire. If the sand can be cleared away, who knows, there may be other charges at a later date, but until then, Fitz is making a case for charges he CAN prove.
But hey, INAL so what do I know.
Greg Sargent at TPM:
see original post for link
Elliot
I dare say I like the way you think… as skeptical as I am of Jason Leopold, I want to believe Rove has a role yet undetermined in all this…
I guess my point was that KO wasn’t the first one to have it wrong.
Dover Bitch @ 126
GrandmaJ @
7
Hey GrandmaJ, we’re having some fun with Michelle Bachmann aren’t we.
She’ll never be able to escape this now.
Kiss Float II as soon as the snow melts!
punaise – thank you very much for the link re Bachmann. I should have gotten it – my bad.
Oklahoma kiddo @
72
I did till I saw him paired with liarman tonite (on PBS Lehrman, I think), acting as if the 2 of them agreed on everybloomin’ thing under the sun. Eeeewwwww!
I plan to write to thank Hagel for his vote, but I’ll be pretty specific about just why’s all….
Balrog – I have gotten 10 emails from local dems. Oh yea, locally this is becoming THE story. I love it. KSTP was having a poll earlier today on her. Ummmmm
James Robinson @
71
Hey there
About Cline–that’s exactly what his testimony was like. lots of questions punctuated by the yes or no answer. I think Christy will address the effectiveness of this in the next few days. But I think it might have been particularly effective. Though Schmall pretty much blew it up when he said he just didn’t review this stuff.
Cline is the graymail expert and has been the lead on the CIPA process, so is undoubtedly the lead on the memory defense, which relies on all the CIPA docs. So he’s likely trying early to get his VERY IMPORTANT stuff in the record. But I think he served, instead, to show how banal all this VERY IMPORTANT stuff was in Libby’s (and his briefer’s) life, so he shouldn’t be PARTICULARLY forgetful during this period.
Balrog @ 132
Let me know. I’ll come help.
Was Bachman wearing a blue beret?
-GSD
Libby didn’t even think about her being covert because she was a girl.
So sorry to be late to the party but thought I’d post David Shuster’s piece on the significance of the witnesses produced by Fitz so far – especially the Schmall testimony today – apologize if it’s been posted before:
Lots more…
http://hardblogger.msnbc.msn.c…..41175.aspx
GSD @ 138
No, but we can paper mache one to her noggin.
ccmask @ 139
Not a student of history, I guess.
Ya woulda thought he’d have heard of Mata Hari.
Well… I can’t say Lieberman and Hagel agree on Iraq. Am I wrong on this? ;)
Libby was so very busy with his job. Just like Michael Brown.
GSD @ 138
LOL maybe she was even wearing a thong
GSD @ 138
hmm. Minnesota. wouldn’t that be a Raspberry Beret?
I noticed that TeamWells did not use “the wife” today. Ideas?
She said “He kissed me in Minnesota too.”
Is Minnesota a code name for a coochie in the mid-west?
-GSD
I keep coming back to why did Judith Miller sit in jail? Was she actually being protected? I wonder why she was “anthraxed”?
Wheels are coming off the scooter…
everhopeful –
Thanks for the link.
The part you bolded was precisely what I took away from the day’s events in the courtroom.
Someone near the beginning of the thread said they were confused about what Fitzgerald was trying to accomplish.
THAT is precisely what Fitz wanted to accomplish — and he did it well.
Libby heard about Valerie from multiple GOVERNMENT sources in the course of working on this very important bit of his very important work — and he knew about Val a long, long time before the media played their hoped-for gossipy role.
Glad to see that Shuster sees it that way, too.
Dover Bitch @ 116
DB, is that urban legend? How did he die?
Vanden Heuvel calls Hagel “a profile in courage” on Scarborough.
GSD @ 148
Only if the possessor is frigid, I would think.
“It’s so cold, in Alaska…”
What was the line in the Libby letter to Miller?
“Their rats connect them?”
-GSD
Maybe Libby thought if he asked enough people, one of them would find out on her own that she was undercover?
Lindy @ 151
Scarborough says “God bless Hagel” for Hagel’s statement on Iraq.
I think KO’s disdain was for the misuse of Hendrix’s image for a cheesy beverage, not for the way he died.
-GSD
Swopa @
11
David Corn has a nice, coherent and concise writeup. I tried to follow the action by scanning the liveblogging (amazing flying fingers, Christy and Marcy!!), but as soon as Wells started on the first witness, I quickly lost the thread of his argument.
How can/should jurors deal with these deliberate attempts to confuse them? What mechanism does Team Fitz have to refocus the jury and point out the flaws, non sequiturs and general gorilla dust thrown up by the defense?
Does the judge have a responsibility to ensure that the jurors are not being confused by such tactics?
(This dingo’s kidney is not in the legal profession, obviously.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 157
I said it before, gonna say it again
I like scarbourough, he gets it…the noe cons are not republicans they are fascists and he wants his party back
good on him
Your reporting, and you, are missed. Like many Americans, I admire your principled stand. But like many of your friends and readers, I would welcome you back among the rest of us, doing what you do best – reporting.
You went into jail in the summer. It is fall now. You will have stories to cover – Iraqi elections and suicide bombers, biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program. Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work – and life. Until then, you will remain in my thoughts and prayers.
ReneND @
141
Michelle Bachmann on Intelligent Design:
http://roachblog.blogspot.com/…..hmann.html
GSD @ 158
I don’t think so. He said he wouldn’t buy a drink named for somebody who died of a heroin overdose.
There’s a lot of things Keith could say that I would let slide. But as a dirty hippie, I must defend the honor of Jimi Hendrix.
GSD @ 158
I agree!
Scarborough tells us that “Americans want out of Iraq”.
Wells claimed this is a he said, she said case.
It is really a they said, he said case. One person can have a faulty memory, but not everyone. The jury will consider that.
Wells also claimed all evidence would be testimony, and not physical. So what do you call notes? If I were a juror I would take that part of the opening statement as misleading to borderline dishonest, and I would not trust Wells any further.
OK, NEW SUGGESTION FOR THE LAKE;
we need a link with all firedog lake anecdotes told so we can just post the link when someone asks “what does this mean” and “why do we yell fitz”
me thinks tiz a job for TREX and since this will be epu’d if I fall asleep and can’t suggest it to him I am hoping someone else does it for me
thanx in advance
dingo kidney @ 159
Wells is trying to throw sand in the jurors’ eyes.
Punaise gave the original link, but here is the second one. Another example of Bachmann’s ‘love’ for bush:
Bachmann
Scroll down where there is a Link to where Bachman said “He kissed me in Minnesota too.”
perris @ 167
I am working on this. Be done Monday if anyone wants it.
Dover Bitch @ 163
Hmmmm. Then I guess I didn’t hear correctly. Will need to see a transcript (do they give transcripts for Keith’s show on msnbc website?) to check.
Wouldn’t surprise me if I heard it wrong. I’m not like Marcy who can hear what’s being said further along, while simultaneously typing what she already heard.
Just trying to type a comment here distracts me from what precise words are said on the teevee.
Sigh.
Is this what aging means?
ccmask @ 170
I don’t care if you thought of it before me, I;m gonna make believe I came up with it, so there
punaise @ 168
That much is clear to me, but I wonder what tactics are available to the prosecution to counter the sand throwing. And how much of it the judge will permit before calling the defense on it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 152
Perhaps a profile in the doctrine of “The truth will set you free”. The people who have been caught up in this monstrous government must certainly by now be feeling the pangs of quilt for blind obedience.
Oklahoma kiddo @
152
Katrina is one sharp cookie(yum) pointing out the alternative resolutions put foward on the Iraq quagmire. Including the progressive caucus that speaks for me, you and most common sense folk.
ccmask –
You’re a trooper!
BTW — Are the extortionists at work having the decency to at least look ashamed of themselves? Hope you will keep us informed when this all gets resolved. Am still pulling for you here!!!
There is nothing about KO that comes off as a moralistic wag…..
I think that he felt the marketing of Hendirx image was in poor taste.
Nuff said.
Love is all around.
-GSD
PS.
Just watched Jesus Camp tonight……whoobie doo. That is a tough one to take.
ccmask @
170
cc’s fdl faq? Awesome!
Perris: I’ll email it to you and you can find a place to post it. So there.
GrandmaJ @ 169
Maybe that is why Condi looked so grumpy.
dingo kidney @ 159
Team Fitz gets to ask “re-direct” questions after cross-examination, and they’ve been using those questions for exactly that purpose — concisely reminding the jurors what the point is. Their brevity and high signal/noise ratio by itself communicates who’s trying to clarify matters, and who’s trying to confuse them.
Mrs. K8, MSNBC does do transcripts, but they don’t come out until the next day. Monday, if the show was on Friday. And then their archive is completely impractical.
They’re a superior network to CNN, but they don’t even come close when it comes to their transcripts and archives.
Vanden Heuvel calls Hagel “a profile in courage” on Scarborough.
I’m surprised he didn’t call him a liberal.
Condi was giving off an “Eye of Sauron” aura.
-GSD
P.S. The joint chiefs didn’t look too happy about the Bush Corps proposal…..
Vanden Heuvel: Huge brain.
I screwed up the blockquoting structure badly in comment 171. Wouldn’t be surprised if nobody understood *what* I was saying.
If I confused you, please refresh.
I went back in and fixed the code.
GSD @ 154
No, no. “Their RUTS connect them.”
Dover Bitch @ 182
Thank you, Dover! Good info to know before I go plowing in over there.
Mrs. K8 at 6:19 pm
Yes.. Here’s a link to Keith’s transcripts.
They are about 1/2 way down the page.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3719710/
Oklahoma kiddo @ 185
And really quite attractive! I think her good heart/soul shines through her eyes, enhancing her already good looks.
Is it late enough in the thread to say something completely off topic?
emptywheel @ 136
Hi! Thanks again for all you’re doing! This is great stuff.
I just Googled “graymail” for a definition, and it turns out that Mr. Cline’s work for Oliver North is the example Wikipedia chose to use. Whoa. “Mr. Graymail” indeed.
So the idea is to insinuate that Very Important Things(TM) lurk around every corner in this case (to avoid the explicit blackmail that CIPA is designed to thwart) and Schmall blew it up basically by saying that the VITs essentially amount to background noise? Ha.
Looking forward to Christy’s analysis.
raven @ 156
ccmask @ 170
Great idea. How about having a link to it as one of the Categories in the right sidebar?
joysness @ 189
joysness –
You’re swell! Many thanks, you’ve saved me time.
This FirePup community is the best in every way.
—————————-
And now Mr. K8 just walked in. Need to help him put groceries away and hear all about his day.
See you guys later!
Cripes. Too bad we had to find out about George & Michelle so late in the political game.
Valley Girl @ 191
better wait until #200.
(just kidding)
watchoogot?
Swopa @ 181
Mrs. K8 @ 190
Oh yes. ;0)
VG, I was really disappointed that ‘the wife’ references were missing today.
I taped it and just watched it (had to watch Georgia beat Kentucky!) KO was picking his WPIW and cited this site Hendrix that is liscensing a softdrink with Jimi’s name. KO made a play on Foxy Lady by saying “Scuze me if I don’t buy a drink named after a guy who died of a heroin overdose.” You make the call.
Mrs. K8 @ 171
ccmask @ 179
the email posted is in my link id fake, so I double there you
Reuters has an item up about the big audience shrub had last night 45.5 mil. What they didn’t say was that the audience tuned in to see MADAME SPEAKER and Sen. Webb, not shrub.
Supporting the troops with extended commitments.
-GSD
That’s wacky George!
Raven,
Thanks.
-GSD
oregondave @ 194
That would be great. Then we can add to it as we get more stuff.
punaise @ 197
This is a really sweet video- Cat Stevens “Peace Train”. I found it on YouTube. And, I found it on YouTube, because I found FDL. I am using it in my lecture on the goodness of insects. Insects have a bad rap. But, “they are the little things that turn the world.” And, I am feeling hopeful today, more so than in a long, long time. Peace train…. we need it. And worth a (another) listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6o7WDw_fR8
Thanks, punasise.
ember @ 200
Me too, just because. Where’ve you been? Missed you!
Being a fan of Stargate SG1, i was trying to define the Goaould to a friend. “They’re parasitic. They steal technology. They gain their wealth on the backs of the underclasses and grab control of every good thing that comes from those classes. They are ruthless in obtaining and keeping power. They are always fighting amongst themselves. They are the ultimate drama queens. The closest human analogy would be the NeoCons.”
raven @ 201:
A play on Purple Haze :)
And, I stand by my complaint.
ccmask @ 206
at risk of zuggernut, it’s worth it
hehe…I get to be part of the fac cuz the fac is gonna say how we came to make a fac
I am a pretty happy pup here at firedog lake
ccmask @ 139
Maybe he assumed she was the secretary, there to look decorative and fetch coffee?
I’m reminded of “the husband’s” comments on an earlier thread regarding her facility with an AK-47; she should invite him out to the range sometime. I’m sure he’d find it educational, and he’d be much safer with her than, say, his former boss.
For the record, Valerie Plame Wilson is my hero. Everything I’ve heard about her leaves me in humble awe, not only of her broad and amazing competence but also her courage and strength and values.
Scuze me while I eat this pie.
Humbly,
-GSD
Did I mention to evryone that my Mom is coming to my house for the weekend ? She willbe coming as she normally does with her white glove to check for dust. I haven’t told her that I haven’t done a thing in my house since this trial started.
Can I sue Libby for a messy house and popcorn kernals in my sheets?
New thread by Christy
Lindy @ 187
I thought they were connected by their Rot.
“BLITZER: Do you think Hillary Clinton would make a good president?
CHENEY: No, I don’t.
BLITZER: Why?
CHENEY: Because she’s a Democrat.”
Why the media gives this old battleax airtime is beyond me. He’s wrong about everything. Go back to Wyoming and never be heard from again, please…
Perris: Is that your blog?
ccmask @ 183
Katrina Van could mean that Hagel is courageous for going against his party or going against Bush. Or, she could mean that Hagel is courageous because he is taking a stand against the war. I don’t think she intended to pay a republican a comment that he could use as an endorsement, but hagel will use it as such. Hagel – Katrina Vanden Huevel of The Nation calls him a profile in courage.
We’ve got to be careful about dishing out compliments to the opposition. Where was Hagel before it became politically expedient to be against the war? He helped to enable it and he was on board with it – that’s where he was.
VG…
Thanks for “Peace Train”. Lord I love this song.
kiddo.
Absolutely Hackworth. Timing is everthing.
Valley Girl @
207
Here is another funny youtuber about spiders. Not for the very young. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc
re Schmall’s remark from the live blogging:
“S Noted that the press and pundits talking about Valerie Wilson and her career, People were saying this was no big deal. I thought there was very grave danger to leaking name of CIA officer. Now that Valerie Wilson’s name in press foreign intell in countries she worked have an opportunity to investigation all the people she worked with can be harrassed, lose their jobs, arrested, tortured, or killed.”
WoW. That seems like quite an unsolicited gift. No coaching, just deadly serious caution and concern being expressed that cuts through all the crap. Even as a ‘biased’ observer, I gasped when that came out.
ember @ 14
Ah, but you’re mistaking what they were talking about with what they were actually interested in. They didn’t actually give a damn about WMDs, but they did give as much attention as this to building a public case for invading Iraq. Whether any of it was true or not was another thing they weren’t interested in, of course.
ccmask @ 218
tiz
ccmask
Does your glossary include trexing?
I haven’t seen anybody actually get trexed in a while, but still. I recall the very thread where the term “EPU” was coined. Ah, those were the days…
Swopa @
153
Watch out where the huskies go…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 220
Thanks. Me Too! And, OT, you’ve sure come a long way on the HRC issue!
It
It was a little snarky in tone.
Dover Bitch @ 210
cleter @ 226
re: trexing- ah, that was good while it lasted. But mods are so busy these days, what with all the traffic and all, it’s a charming thing from the low traffic past!
VG, just needed a break. I know that you know how that is…
Valley Girl @
147
Someone at Team Libby lurks.
Valley Girl @ 230
we now refer to his TRexitude, master of the Late Nite domain.
ember @ 231
LOL- I sure do! Welcome back.
HotFlash @ 232
ya. we are definately giving them a heads up
don’t know what to do about that though
Hey gang.
I visited one of our local bookstores today & checked the “new books” sections. Nadda, of course, & they had a friendly helper/searcher gal who wondered if she could help….
Told her about a book that was just out, maybe not even shipped yet, but I really wanted to find it..
…off to the store computer….
THAT’S IT!!! says I calmly, when Marcy’s cover came up in full colour (;->).
We then ran thru the “usual”:
-yeah, it’s in the ‘puter
-yeah, we’ll have it
-not sure when
-should be soon, I think
-what’s it about?
}}}!BINGO!{{{
(why’d you think I went in the 1st place ?! and give her credit; she’d actually heard of the Libby trial ;->)
“Hey. That sounds interesting,” says she, after enduring a bit of tasteful bravado on my part in re Marcy’s [goddess-like knowledge & skills], plus a plug for FDL being in the process of live-blogging the whole trial as we were speaking. (all this from gray- oh heck, white-haired me to the poor, not quite traumatized, but now quite alert young thing)
While she was gathering up her wits, I suggested she might want to order more copies than the paltry 3 their branch store had been alloted, because this book was going to be much in demand. She assured me they at the branch had no control over ordering.
In response to subsequent query, she said no one has actually personally ordered any of the 3 copies they were expecting – yet.
Instead of taking her up on her suggestion that I reserve one, I demurred, saying I still wanted to check around elsewhere to see if I could just buy it right away instead of waiting. But I did ask where it would be filed when the copies come in. “Politics & Gov’t” says she.
“Ahhhh”, says I to meself. To her, I’ll check back and look fwd to when it’s arrived.
Last time I tried this gambit, it was with another nifty book, which started out as a group of 3 hiding back in “Politics & Govt”, and ended up in a big stack on their out-front display. HAH!
Gettin’ older, so one sweet lil salesgurl per trip is my limit, so I grabbed some nice dark green edibles at the local organic-groc.-store & headed home to pack in some vitamins so I can start out again tomorrow.
Marcy, Christy, Pach, Jane, FDLdawgs – prepare yourselves. I think yer toobez is clogged ’cause yer gettin’ BIG! – with all the good things that implies (and some not so terrific, so be forewarned). Now, if the site can just stand everyone from USuhday on thru CN & every bloomin’ other thing discovering yer charms & slapping on a link, oooogh!?!
Techies: brilliant innovation & godspeed!
And everyone, please consider dropping ‘nother penny in the bucket when ya can. FDL is an incredible place, and This.will.be.a.ride……
Make room world, the sea_biscuit of the media is comin’ thru… ;->
{{{{{{JANE}}}}}}
Big thing today that COMPLETELY destroys Libby’s “memory hole” defense.
The June 14th “Tom Cruise” document!
Context: This is a full month before the publication by Novak that “Wilson’s wife” was “behind” her husbands trip to Niger.
Despite all the cross-examination showing that Grenier has a bad memory thes comment shows that Libby was hyped about two things: Tom Cruise/Penelope Cruz’s visit (screw the potential attack by Al Qaida!) and “Joe Wilson/ Valerie Wilson”.
Grenier’s certain that he didn’t know who she was at that point…he had no reason to know…the Press revelations of her identity were coming out much later.
Libby had to give him her name! Libby made a specific inquiry asking Grenier to find out about her! Just one of many it now seems.
ccmask @ 214
Can we make it a class action?
perris @ 235
just think when ya post. i tried to warn yestidie after already overblabbing meownself.
HEY! Watch the CNN interview with MrC. He does that thingie with his thumbs like Christy said ’bout scooter – when a particularly annoying question has to be listened to for longer than his fuse lasts. Kinda cute. Only sayin’ ’cause he already knows about it, apparently. After one particularly impressive fidget-session, he took to clapping ‘is hands together firmly & WILL-ING them to STAY STILL till he finished his little schtick on camera.
still…glad ya noticed, guys. could be important…just take care ;->
fdlblog @ 120
Or perhaps he has some bit of evidence or testimony that suggests that Libby already knew Plame was covert or had classified status. And thus he didn’t need or want to inquire further.
Now remember that the Judge has ruled that her actual status cannot be brought into the case…but what Libby BELIEVED is relevant and can be brought to the fore.
Didn’t Grenier say that he mentioned to Libby that he had said something about Wilson’s wife that he should not have mentioned? That would indicate to Libby that the information passed was not in his “need-to-know” bounds and that HE CERTAINLY should discuss it no further.
Mrs. K8
Here’s something I found from a friend’s link re: stuff discussed earlier:
http://joemonahansnewmexico.bl…..al-in.html
Oklahoma kiddo @ 143
I got the feeling they were each trying to “use” the other, but it seems to be a somewhat uneasy alliance. Lots of looking down & wincing by Hagel at times when joe droning on & “expanding” on the theme…
Valley Girl @ 230
Yes, I have t-rexing. I remember those days lol
perris et al at 211
such friendly, outgoing pups.
any thots of having a certain amt of learning curve of self-taught chaff as price of admission to cool waters, to slow down the troooooools heh?
One word on Hagel as a nebraska. Hagel is my senator. I like his courage on Iraq but PLEASE check out his voting record before you give him too much credit. I suspect he vying for presidency as the Anti war republican. He votes for tax relief for the wealthy. He voted for the act that would allow torture and make it retro to before Bush days. He voted for the line item veto today. He’s not my idea of a great choice other than that he is against the war. Remember he voted for the war but regretted it. He’ll always vote republican first.
cinnamonape @ 237
My take also on the importance of this. Small correction here, though: it was Schmall, not Grenier.
katie Jensen @ 245
Exactly.
Would any of the prosecution’s questions be to obscure the salient point Fitz is after from the defense?
I wonder how much of what has already come out in the testimony was covered/referred to/hinted at in Fitz’s pretrial filings?
In other words, based on a comparison between the two, is Fitz pretty much following the “script” of the case he’s trying to make against Libby? Or maybe it’s just too early to make such a comparison?
mandrake @ 55
Fine. I’d prefer to see Mr. Cheney remain on the planet long enough to answer for his high crimes against humanity. Regarding the public’s need to know: pieces of the puzzle are inevitably lost when the likes of Pinochet, Hussein and Cheney check out too early.
Hegal and Webb are all the rage this week, because they speak passionately and directly about something they believe.
Take note.
*xyz @ 117
Yeah. But I’m not sure whether he lied or not, maybe he “avoided” the question. I readily admit complete speculation here.
But if one felt guilt that he passed on Wilson’s wife and didn’t have to, I think that’d sit with that person. Also, two levels of self preservation here.
1) Internalizing (personally) that it was a mistake to pass Plame’s name.
2) You don’t want to implicate the high level political appointee in an investigation that goes no where. (You don’t wound a king).