
No, Monisignor Tim has not invited us on the Sunday morning show. As if! Do you want to see all of insider Washington clutching their pacemakers at once? Er. . . don't answer that.
Actually, allow me to roll back the snark, because I want to speak in the same spirit of basic human respect and dialogue that has informally developed as I have gotten to know at least a handful of the big reporters in the Libby media room. In good faith, let me address some of the standard defenses offered of the criticisms we in the blogosphere typically make of the establishment media. These are some of the establishment's standard criticisms of our criticisms, followed by my responses. Let me be clear: I'm not suggesting anyone has made these arguments to me this week. I'm just reprising some old standards.
Here they are, in no particular order:
Rashomon: This argument says different people see different things watching the same thing. The best a reporter can do is be accurate about the facts of what they hear and see so the public can sort out the rest.
I have some sympathy with this argument, to a point. I am, after all, a psychology guy, and a social scientist. I get the ways perception and selective attention, cognition and emotion all mix together to bring about different points of view. On the other hand, I'm not a relativist. There is such a thing as truth, and in science, we don't just rely on one study to establish a pattern, but we also do meta-analysis to determine persistent, enduring trends and verifiable effect sizes of the interactions of different variables as they emerge repeatedly over time.
Editors: This argument says bloggers lack accuracy because they lack supervision: they lack editors who can support fact checking of what they do.
Not too many bloggers see themselves as reporters, though some do, and others do occasional reporting on specific stories. Most lack the resources to assign people to the places where news stories are breaking. Occasionally, bloggers bring their video cameras to the site of potential news events and break news by recording what happens, as George Allen knows all too well. Jason Leopold did atrocious, unsupported and unsupportable "reporting" on the Plame story, and sites like this one never linked to his work because we never trusted it, much to the consternation of some of our readers. But the whole argument about editors misses a larger point.
For sites that allow commenters, our readers are our editors. It's true, we miss a lot of typos, and frankly, we often don't care. We care more about getting the facts and the story right, and we embed hyperlinks so as to "show our work." Commenters let us know when we've screwed up, and even if our home communities don't, people elsewhere in the blogosphere take shots at us if we get something factually wrong. Those of us who care about accuracy and truth make corrections or respond (facts, as we all know, have a well known liberal bias). On the other hand, many people commonly thought of as bloggers, mostly on the conservative side of the political spectrum, don't allow commenters on their sites. Howie Kurtz's frequent guest on Reliable Sources, Glenn Reynolds, comes to mind. Instapundit has no relation to reality or truth in his writing, and he could I suppose benefit from an editor. He's just a propagandist and a fabulist.
This argument about editors misses the point that many of us operate from an open source model of editorial control, rather than a top down one. I have thousands of editors when I write, at least. What's more, editors also, in the establishment media, assign stories and coverage. We bloggers write what we choose to write, but we make choices based not only on our own interests and judgments, but also informed by the interests and continuous, interactive feedback and suggestions coming from our online communities. . . for those of us who respond to and promote community interaction.
Conspiracy: Members of the establishment media may at times implicitly concede some of our criticisms of their failures on specific stories, but they hasten to argue there is no conspiracy to favor one side or the other in national or political coverage.
My good friend Digby wonders if there can possibly be a group of less self-aware people than the members of our Washington press corps and pundit class. I don't get the sense, based on my direct experience this week, that the people I met are any more or less self-aware as a group than anyone else, on a personal level. I do however think that elite Washington in general lacks systemic or institutional self-awareness on many levels, but that's another matter, one more of systems and institutions than of individual reporters.
When establishment media figures say, as they still do, that no one was against the war before the decision to invade Iraq (save perhaps Scott Ritter), they really mean and believe it, because their whole world view of who comprises "everyone" inhabits the media-governmental class of DC. They just don't see any further. It's a remarkable thing, a cultural bubble. There's no conscious conspiracy in that, in my view, but it is a bubble sustained by conscious institutional choices and incentive systems.
Punditry is populated by former reporters who make their bones and gain credibility within this DC insider class. Opinion columns are doled out as rewards for years of reporting things up close in Washington. The result is a kind of hothouse garden of carefully selected rare flora carefully cultivated to see the world from within a beltway perspective. Republicans have been consciously conspiring to take advantage of this dynamic since the Goldwater era, so on that level, the feeding of consistently toxic disinformation into the DC media swamp is in fact a conspiracy, but it's not always one in which reporters are consciously complicit: they just operate from within the world as it exists for them.
Editors are selected by the corporate, business side of our media outlets so as not to assign or propel stories that will radically challenge the reigning status quo, because pro-big business politics that eschew the media fairness doctrine and which support media consolidation are good for the quarterly bottom line. Is that a conspiracy? On the level of many, even most, individual reporters, it is not. On the level of the creation and maintenance of our current media, governmental, institutional status quo, the answer is far more complex, and depends on whom you're discussing. Some media figures are in on the con, and some are not.
On another level, the process of watching and participating in reporting of Libby's voir dire this week showed me something in real time that I had not fully comprehended before. Watching the closed circuit feed of the process in a room with the media helped me see how collegiality and professional courtesy allow reporters to help each other catch quotes accurately for the sake of their reporting. People can ask questions and check their impressions with each other, through the same kind of community review process we so value in the online community. This is a good thing.
There's also a drawback to this, though, and it's subtle: people watching the same thing in the same room organically influence each other. If one person has a spontaneous reaction to whatever happens, others are exposed to it. It may simply be laughter, or surprise, or a quick hypothesis of what may be happening during a sidebar conversation. The result is we all shape each other's emerging interpretations of what we are seeing, and what it all means. This tends to support a consensus point of view, a uniformity of understanding.
In other words, this is the process of the creation of DC conventional wisdom in real time. I found it took a conscious effort each night when I did my evening wrap up of the day's events not simply to relay the emerging consensus view of the day as presented so well by my new colleagues, but instead to think differently and independently, from my own point of view, using my own voice. Were I to become a regular member of this little social/professional group, I expect this would only become more difficult. I'm a people person, and I am known for my ability to empathize with and understand those close to me, which is another way of saying I can absorb the perspectives of those around me rather well. That's not a matter of conspiracy: it's a human matter of empathy. This actually is true of all people: we are, after all, a social species.
Competency: This argument says that bloggers who know nothing of reporting, or what's involved in it, lack the competence to criticize that which they do not understand.
Here's the general metaphor: if a surgeon begins surgery, finds something unexpected and changes the procedure, yielding results afterward that are unexpected, the patient may feel inclined to criticize, but the patient lacks the competence to judge the choices made by the surgeon, unless he or she is also a trained surgeon. You can spin out a similar metaphor on a more mundane level, say, using a car mechanic as an example.
Let me first present the most sympathetic response to this argument. Bloggers and consumers of information on the Internet on a daily basis have access to a much larger universe of diverse perspectives and sources than the reporter on the scene can find and absorb. While I was live blogging Libby, I could not at all keep up with everything else happening in the news or the world, and could barely even keep up with what the other reporters in the room were writing and saying about the same trial process. Being on an email list or getting news clippings sent to you can help, but without the time to read and review all this information, you just can't digest it all.
In that sense, many bloggers don't understand the level of incompatibility between doing first rate, primary source reporting and simultaneously keeping up with everything else. The reporters in the room with me are better at capturing quotes and checking facts on quick turnaround than I am: they're trained to do it. I do have some sympathy for the argument that many bloggers don't fully understand, on a visceral level, the complexity of the demands placed on reporters in this position, who, through all this, must produce columns on deadline and also occasionally fight with editors for placement of their work.
But there's also a problem: this argument is one that can logically be applied to say that no one can criticize the work of a car mechanic or a surgeon, or for that matter, a reporter, unless they share the same professional training or at least, exposure. In other words, this is fundamentally an elitist protection argument, a unilateral declaration of blanket immunity from outsider criticism. When there's a claim against the work of a professional, it must be subject to adjudication on the merits, perhaps with the help of other experts.
We who are offering bracing criticism are the readers, the people formerly known as the audience, the public, and our calls for reform are legitimate. We want our establishment media outlets to report the truth in the service of the public interest, and we've been calling the establishment to account for repeatedly failing to do so. That's a valid criticism that the establishment press not only should not resist, but should welcome and seek out. Defensiveness is human, and reporters feel already under siege as news outlets continue to cut staff and cut budgets: livelihoods in the Internet age are at risk. However, while establishment media defensiveness may be understandable, the competency argument against the criticisms we in the public offer is fundamentally illegitimate.
I mentioned the other day that we in the blogosphere benefit structurally from the lack of deadlines. We can take a little longer on stories that capture our interest, do research, publishing when we choose. This allows us to do more connecting of the dots on the meta level that a reporter covering the story of the day typically cannot. We can do more to comprehend context, see how today's events connect to yesterday's events, decipher trends, and so on. Moreover, we can take as much space as we like, as much as our readers can patiently bear.
Not only is all that hard or impossible to do when reporting breaking news on deadline every day, it's hard for the on-the-ground reporter to sort out what potential meta-trends or arguments are real, based on solid, longitudinal reporting and examination of events, and which are just spin, hype or cant. As it turns out, a belief that the Bush administration or the Republican establishment is lying on any number of fronts is a rational, reasonable view based on the preponderance of evidence available (and was in 2001 as well). A belief that liberal views are extreme or in the small minority does not hold up to empirical national polling (and did not in 2001), though these views are certainly "extreme" in the protected world of DC's conventional wisdom.
No matter the popular view or the historical trend, here's the reporter's dilemma: being a reporter means dancing a difficult dance of applied skepticism that must take as its responsibility to doubt even the prevailing empirical point of view when seeking to interpret new events (and all reporting is also interpretation). Even granting the extreme de facto favoritism of DC insider conservatism over the last few decades in the media, it's possible, in other words, that tomorrow a member of the current Republican establishment can tell the truth! Reporters must remain open to all possibilities, to the best of their abilities.
Most of our media establishment has yet to come to terms, not only with the prevailing systemic favoritism of conservative frames of reference and disinformation of recent decades, but also with the newly emergent paradigm shift whereby Republicans are in fact quite wrong, empirically, about any number of issues (social security, health care, foriegn policy, etc.). The media establishment as a group has not yet comprehended that the modern GOP establishment has habitually been purposely, consciously lying to and manipulating members of the media for, literally, decades. Most reporters who have come of age professionally since 1980 have not yet grasped that their professional incubation has included systemic and ideological influences that have warped their interpretations of events, even their choices about what events are relevant to report. This includes those reporters who think of themselves, privately, as generally "liberal" people.
Fundamentally, the establishment media has not come to terms with the open source model of the understanding of events, which incorporates perspectives from outside of the DC social bubble. To many reporters and pundits, we outsiders represent an undifferentiated, threatening mass, a horde who shrieks critique and whose collective work also threatens their livelihoods. There I was, blogging the trial by their side without being paid for it. How would you feel about someone showing up at your place of work to do more or less what you do, for free? What's more, to many in the media, TPM, Instapundit, MyDD, LittleGreenFootballs, Hullabaloo, Matt Drudge, Eschaton or Firedoglake are all more or less alike, when in fact they are all extremely different on several levels.
Conclusion: I think we outsiders are better positioned, structurally, to do meta-analysis of stories and trends in political news. In many respects, relative to reporters, we have more time and more people available to do it. I think the selection of members of the punditocracy more or less exclusively from the right wing media spectrum, right wing funded think tanks, and exclusive of liberals from outside the DC media establishment structurally perverts our understanding of public life. The results, over time, manifest themselves in successively more colossal failures in communal life and public policy paid for in blood and breath, so that responsibility for fiascoes like Katrina and the occupation and invasion of Iraq rests partly on the shoulders of our elite media establishments, our pundits, their editors and editorial boards. Any news panel that expects a reporter/media figure like Andrea Mitchell to function as a stand in and counterweight to Bill Kristol is not a balanced panel. Try instead Duncan Black, if he's willing to do it.
There are things our establishment reporters and media establishments do that we in the blogosphere do not do as well, and which we lack the resources to do consistently well. But there are also things we do better than our establishment media outlets and reporters do. There seems to me to be some room for complimentarity here, and business models must sort themselves out as they will. Keith Olbermann, after all, seems to be helping MSNBC's bottom line.
I'll end where I began: we bloggers don't expect to be invited on Meet the Press anytime soon, though Mike Stark was a guest on Reliable Sources this week, so who knows? Collectively, we're in new, uncharted territory, and as one among a "posse" (not a "pool") of bloggers covering the Libby trial, I'm just glad to have some small part in sorting out what the best model for the future will be, in the service of the public interest.



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twolf1
Did I miss some announcement about the trial? Has the Court adjourned? If so, when it is expected to reconvene?
FITZ!!
Tomorrow and forever.
FITZ Rules!
Speaking of Russert, someone made this comment at my blog yesterday.
Ya think? I’ve been saying that for months now.
Okay, so I haven’t been saying it on television. But still, um, “duh”…
And speaking as one of your thousand editors, you might omit the
stuff. :)
Pach, here’s another for you.
At times, the criticisms coming from the blogosphere are aimed at reporters, when in reality the true target may be editors. If an editor spikes a story, or has the reporter alter a lead, or shift an emphasis in a way that screws up the story, that’s the editor’s fault and not the reporter. The criticism, however, points the finger at “that stupid reporter who says . . .”
The problem with trying to address this critique from the MSM is that their model of news delivery is all carried out behind the scenes. When we find fault, we don’t know which errors belong to the editor, which to the reporter, and which to both. Our alternatives are basically to (a) use a blanket “The MSM Gazette says” which attributes the problem to everyone at the media outlet indiscriminately, or (b) use a specific reporter’s name, since that’s the one attached to the story.
eg: stuff?
The objective realists in the MSM recognize that the paradigm shift has already occurred in the delivery of contemporaneous and accurate political news. They also recognize that a tectonic shift is happening in the very delivery of information. They must maintain their “position” to maintain any footing they mistakenly perceive they have which is not connected in reality. Open source collection and delivery of information will sweep the cobwebs from the MSM or they will not survive in their current state in the coming years.
Absolutely. johnSwifty and I had lunch last Friday. Among other things, we talked about how many members of the FDL community are highly accomplished professionals: Ph.Ds, ABDs, psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, lawyers, techies, artists, writers, designers, community activists, and so on, who are superb and sharp editors, and whose excellent work as editors is plain for all to see in the various threads that spin out everyday on this site.
Those same reporters are making a salary that affords them entree into the tonier parts of town, and further removes them from everyday Americans.
Once you’re in the country club, you are adverse to risking your situation. Easier to go with the flow.
Everybody knows which lines not to cross on the job. MSM reporters aren’t about to bite the hand that feeds them.
Just one reason for the group think Pach describes.
That was a cool article, Pach. Glad you had the opportunity to put the DC establishment media on the couch. I’m even more glad that you stuck ‘em with this truth:
Way to extend the olive branch and swat ‘em in the ass with it!
I know this is a long one, folks. Sorry. If I flatter myself, I’ll call this digbyesque long form.
We decided to give the toobz something meaty that was not liveblogging, before we get back to that bidnesss.
Another difficulty the MSM has with bloggers is that we are often acting not as reporters but as editors – or more properly, as “shadow editors” (akin to the British “shadow cabinet” model.)
Our coverage of an issue, like this trial, often carries with it the criticism that goes like this. If the editors at the MSM Gazette knew their jobs, these are the stories they’d assign. . . If the editors at the MSM Gazette knew their jobs, these are the errors they would have spotted in the reporter’s story. . . If the editors at the MSM Gazette knew their jobs, these are the contradictions they would have noticed in the White House version of events, and these are the questions they would have asked. . .
Having that kind of shadow editorial board looking over your shoulder can make a person nervous. Of course, that goes with the territory.
When I preach a sermon, I’ve got a room full of folks who listen, digest, and pass judgement on what I’ve said. I want them to do that – that’s part of the purpose of preaching, just as it’s part of the purpose of news reporting. But if that’s the case, neither I nor the editors and reporters can very well get upset when folks actually listen, and take what we say seriously enough to check it out and see if it makes sense.
Can I just ask something here? Does everyone here pretty much have a lot of faith in Fitzgerald? It appears so, but I was wondering if there are any skeptics here.
Pachacutec @ 8
There’s some html left hanging as viewed through an IE browser.
I’m sorta fascinated by your views on reporters’ self-awareness. I believe the opposite to be true for most – that they are extremely self-aware, and it is that self-awareness that makes them suck at reporting.
Now, what would they be self-aware of? Their places in the DC establishment (that’s the ticket), and it is that awareness that keeps them from doing their jobs properly – in that way they are very much like the vast majority of lobbyists: going along to get along so they keep their “access,” still get invited to the right parties, get a paycheck, etc.
So, the vast majority are very self-aware – just in ways that don’t server the needs of journalism or the expectations of the public.
Peterr,
Thinking for ourselves?
That may wind you up in Gitmo!
Plus, that’s as succinct an explanation for the right/left divide in this country as there is.
Thinking for yourself vs. outsourcing it.
Hey Pach –
Just wanted to thank you and all the other FDL pups covering this trial. This is what brought me to the lake to begin with! (Jane via Huffington Post) Personally I believe that the the blogosphere is the future of news. All the news sources who are honestly interested in true journalism are moving in that direction anyway. The immediacy of fact checking and full spectrum of critique are ultimately going to eliminate the jealously protected cliques that make up the MSM as it stands today…
Very well thought out and written.
Now that you have been baptised by fire, so to speak, you can get a better sense of what goes on behind the scenes that we do not see.
I still find great annoyance that there is no sense of introspection.Being on a deadline and dealing with editors does not give one the excuse not to step back in retrospection occasionally, to look at what you have wriiten, or reported, and do a little self critiqueing.
This ’spin ‘ has gotten progressively worse and has gotten to the point of basically parroting the wishes of the administration.
IMO, it’s a good thing to be looking over their shoulder and pointing out reality.
Renee in Ohio @ 5
Me, too. I’m sick of hearing about Obama & Hillary and all the useless waste-of-oxygen, celebrity-worship speculation.
I want to savor my damn hearings first!
mandrake @ 15
Past performance is no guarantee of future results, but his past performances have been a sight to see. He tries his cases in court, not in the press. If he can prove the crime, he charges the crime. If he can’t he doesn’t – but keeps looking.
His pursuit of corruption in government, within the bounds of the legal system, puts to shame not only the folks he holds accountable, but also many of those who have gone before him as prosecutors in highly charged political cases.
And yes – I’m talking about Ken Starr.
This is a realy great “meta” piece. The most important part is that people do this for free. Considering labor costs in this world, it is truly amazing what you can do if instead if charging $15, $50 or $100/hr you can inspire people to do it for free.
You guys lead by example: We can change the world in our free time.
About judging professionals while not being their colleague: My father used to say (in Yiddish) that you don’t need to be a horse (”ferd”) in order to be a judge (”mayvn”) of horses. That has some added bite because “ferd” could also be used to mean “idiot”.
I can’t see the loose html. Can any mods help out?
Only had time to skim, Pach, but caught a typo you’ll want to fix (add an “n” to “know”) Will have a closer look tonight.
This deserves to be widely read, and probably will be. Good work. As usual.
Sounds very much like Chomsky and Herman
Pach, the Open Source meme seems to sum it all up. I use Firefox and Thunderbird simply because it works better. It is free, but I wouldn’t say it was cobbled together by a bunch of hacks.
In the same way, this blog, and many others, have a collection of specialists often not available to MSM reporters who can give near-instant feedback, corrections, explanations of complex subjects, and insights that would not generally be available to a working reporter.
OT:
Warner leads effort on second resolution criticizing Bush’s Iraq plan
Excellent piece, Pach.
Another thing that happens in the blogosphere that has a hard time in the MSM is collaboration on the fly.
As we have seen in the Plame case, but also exists with other topics, there are many people working on different pieces of the puzzle. They develop an amazing level of knowledge about a small slice. When another piece appears that they can connect to their own, they are on to it and share it with others.
This has happened not only within a story but in exposing the spider web of connections that aren’t in plain sight.
For the MSM, they are limited because of the competitive nature of the business. Reporters from different organizations cannot collaborate beyond professional courtesy or they’ll lose their jobs.
And as mentioned above, the level of expertise that the blogging world can bring to all the different pieces is truly awesome.
IMO the MSM keeps conflating the kind of blogging you see here and at Kos and other kindred sites with MySpace personal blogs because they want the general public to distrust bloggers.
If you read some blogs they are embarrassing or pointless drivel and not the sort of thing you want if you are looking for an alternative to the MSM spin.
Personally, I think that what we are witnessing with you all covering the trial directly is a new phase in media. As more people look to get news off the web, they will uncover more and more the way to blogs like this one which will lead to other blogs on other topics which will lead to other blogs on other topics . . . which will inevitably lead to more bloggers being asked by the MSM to comment on what is happening in the world.
got the weird Html out … off to check on the typo
off site team on the job Pach!
Great post!
Loved your analysis,
Bloggers then are the fifth estate?
I’m curious as to the differences in the social and political outlook between editors and reporters. How much “off the job” interaction is there? Same circles? Do the editors sort stories as to the marketability of the story? Seems as if that would be difficult to parse.
Since this is a media meta, if anyone wants to spotlight to media, I won’t dissuade them!
I’d add one thing to what Pach said (and I’m sure I’ll expound on it at some length at some point).
I see what I do to be a very different genre than what reporters do. Liveblogging is one thing–the idea is to give as much context as possible, not to filter.
But then a lot of my Plame posts are about asking questions, not about telling you what happened. By asking questions–and having the luxury of speculating (with clear indication that’s what I’m doing) or simply leaving a question open–I can approach a story with a more open mind about what it means. I don’t have to stick with a well-defined narrative.
kristinejoy @ 23
Gotta remember that one!
This is an excellent post – and comment by Peterr. It brings up something I mentioned this morning about Neil Lewis’ piece on the trial this morning in the NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01…..press.html -(Thanks to citygirl for the linky).
Here I pointed out at the end that Lewis misses the mark (intentionally it seems). The issue of the Libby case for many of us mere readers/citizens is not reporter confidentiality, but the egregious ways in which journalists such as Judith Miller (and her NYT upper echelon cheerleaders) used her/their positions to push lies furnished by corrupt upper level people in the U.S. government who wanted to press for war at all costs.
I don’t remember this sort of blatant ideology driven journalism in the actual writing of events of war (or war lead up) in the past over such a sustained period. Yes there was some, and there was lots that never got written, but the tightly engineered (controlled) almost fascist link-up between a corrupt war pushing administration and key segments of the media (also including TV and radio) was new both in its degree and in its tone with this event. And remember how shocked we were when TV people and journalists did actual reporting of people on the ground during Katrina? It was then that the glass first began to crack in MSM, and we saw what actually could be done. The field of journalism has alot to atone for in covering this war (not the least of which is their not speaking out against the rebel rousing Fox ideologies who claim the same jouralist label). Sadly, indeed tragically, more journalists have killed in this war than many before it, alas some seemingly intentionally by our or our allies side. (Remember also the UN people documenting events on the ground who were bombed in the recent Lebanon invasion despite repeted calls to desist).
Pach, fabulous post. I want to add that as a consumer of information, and to state the obvious, the breadth and depth of information offered by blogs is far more valuable to me than the narrowly focused, limited information offered by MSM. Obvious, I know, but worth repeating.
Pachacutec @ 25
Pach: This is visible after the long blockquote in the post:
!–[if !supportEmptyParas]–>
There’s one thing that I think demonstrably proves that the press today is biased–although the reasons may have less to do with the individual reporter and more to do with the system you describe, Pach.
That is the way the press, generally, from the AP on down to the WaPo to the East Podunk Hog-Caller, treats different government scandals. In 1973, the larger papers were actually competing with each other to dig out a real Watergate story that approximated what was really going on, rather than the bullshit Haldeman and Mitchell were passing around.
By 1986, the press was doing its best to dance around Iran-Contra without doing damage to a “popular” President (popular with whom, the papers never explained). The investigation pretty much died before the full involvement of the White House was known.
By 1992, the major press took everything the so-called Arkansas Project handed them and reported it breathlessly as proof of the unfitness of Clinton. That did not cease for eight years. The majors were competing with each other to turn their front pages into tabloid scandal sheets and as a consequence, were willing to publish any leak from Ken Starr’s bunch. It took two small-publication reporters, Gene Lyons and Joe Conason, to finally set the record straight.
Then, when Bush arrived, the press did the equivalent of “thank you, sir, may I have another” when all the Bushies started treating them like syphilitic lepers. It started with Bush’s snotty, preppy nicknames and went downhill from there. When Bush started banging the gong for war, the major papers were even more breathless–in concentrating on Bush, instead of the people who had strong opinions and experience suggesting it was either a lie, wrong-headed, or just plain stupid. That the goddamned “paper of record” let Judy, Judy, Judy behave like a tart at a frat party any time she got near someone in the White House. That the papers were blatantly for the stupidest of wars and for the White House ramming it down the throats of the public. That they reported all those idiotic photo-ops with the endlessly repeated slogans in the background as if they were real news, instead of what they really were–the most manipulative of propaganda. That, seemingly, everyone in the news business conceived of balance as accurately reporting outright lies with the same credulousness as they did verifiable facts. Getting at the truth of a particular matter was, mostly, irrelevant.
It’s a systemic problem, from top to bottom. And, it is bias of the most pernicious kind. Many people have died because of it.
ew: that’s a good point.
Do you also think it’s true that default metanarratives exist whether we choose to have them or not? It seems to me this is inevitable, which is why the open source review process is so powerful: more powerful than the tradional, more circumscribed process of editorial review.
one more small typo:
“Being on an email list or getting news clippings sent to you can help, but without the time to read and review all this information, you just can’t digest it all it.” [in?]
(3rd graph under ‘Competency:’)
Excellent post Pach.
Sorta OT They Work For Us
Speaking of Weenies, Frank Luntz weighs in at HuffPo. Scale barely moves.
Oh, now he’s a practioner. He even admits his own malpractive: (My emphases.)
This makes alot more sense to me:
Long live bloggers, antibodies to the ignorati.
How would you feel about someone showing up at your place of work to do more or less what you do, for free?
This is at the heart of the problem. Keep in mind that if we destroy the business model of reporting, then there won’t be any reporters Blogs are complementary to reporters, not competitive, which is the point you’re making wrt meta-stories, connecting the dots and thinking longitudinally. Perhaps it is not a good thing for bloggers to be in press rooms.
Any news panel that expects a reporter/media figure like Andrea Mitchell to function as a stand in and counterweight to Bill Kristol is not a balanced panel. Try instead Duncan Black, if he’s willing to do it.
I raised this question over at Cliff Schecter’s blog. There are also plenty of people who can stand up to Bill Kristol who aren’t primarily bloggers. Eric Alterman was my example. He mentioned Rachael Sklar.
What I find most weird about the choice of milquetoast lefties on the pundit shows is that it makes for bad television. Cliff provides much better television than Donna Brazile. It’s sharper, funnier and has more conflict. It lends credence to conspiracy theories.
Thanks, Pach. I’m sure you don’t mean to be too hard on the David Shuster’s of the journalism world. (He does an excellent job, BTW) We are unlike the right wing bloggers in that we do not want to suffocate the press. We just want them to do a better job reporting the truth. As you have just found out, that’s not as easy as it sounds.
I think sending the psychologist to cover jury selection was a stroke of genius. You have unique perspective that was oddly compatable with the proceedings. Superb!
There’s a guy named Bill James, who became famous among baseball fans about a quarter of a century ago. He was (and is) a baseball writer, but not in the usual sense. He didn’t work for a daily paper or for a weekly sports magazine. Instead, he wrote about questions about baseball, like how big the effects of different ballparks are on batting averages, and whether the sac bunt is a useful offensive tool.
He said that not interviewing players and coaches before and after the games – in fact, not being part of that world at all – enabled him to see a lot of things they didn’t. Maybe there were some things he missed by not talking to them, but then a lot of people were already doing regular sports reporting.
Blogging seems to be like that. Bloggers are outside the conventional media culture. Bloggers don’t interview Senator Soandso, or go to Georgetown cocktail parties to rub shoulders with the political and media elite. And being outside that culture enables bloggers to see things that Broder and Will simply cannot see.
Pachacutec @
13
While some of Pach’s points have been discussed elsewhere, I have never seen such a cogent (and pointed) summation. Brilliant, Pachacutec! Even more on point is the way the post gets subtly into the psyche of MSM journalists, enhanced (and likely stimulated) by his week in the fishbowl.
That post was worth every word, and should be a starting point for journalism courses globally. But then this is FDL.
Great stuff.
montag @ 40
Amen…
You craft a winning synopsis.
Jack
Nice work, Pach. Reading your comment in real time about the “bubble” this past week was incredible; it validated suspicions, while providing a subtle meta-commentary about the trial preparation conducted before you and that same bubble gathered next to you.
Look the lives of all the people who reported for and went through voir dire — they are all interwoven, and are likely only a couple of degrees of separation apart by virtue of living in Washington D.C. But this isn’t like any small town in America, where that kind of intimacy is normal and to be expected; we’re talking about people who are only 2 to 4 degrees removed from the Vice President of the United States.
Nor are the witnesses very far apart, friendly or hostile.
And the folks in that bubble next to you are also no more than a couple of degrees apart from ALL the players, no matter where they sit in the courtroom or media room.
How can we reasonably expect to get fair and informative coverage in this kind of case without a highly active effort to remain removed or at least disclose the lack of distance between the observers and the observed?
Hence the importance of bloggers to us, the reading community — and why journalism and justice from inside the Beltway has become so suspect.
did someone say Digby ?
(yup, still rooting around FDL archives and enjoying the hell out of it !)
http://firedoglake.blogspot.co…..-link.html
o/t
released Inspector General report vindicates CREW and their version of events surrounding Foley e mails
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/1/22/125056/138
RT: I was a high school “sabermetrician.” Heh.
Pachacutec @ 41
Who is the “we” you’re referring to in this statement? I mean, we have a bit of metanarrative, too, one that’s very different from the MSM one. But I think ours is subjected to more challenges. At the very least, I’m going to have to defend what I say to Maguire, which will form a corrective if I get too far out on the lefty barge.
I don’t quite understand the dispute here since bloggers don’t- as a rule- report the news (this gig at court being a notable exeption- and reporters don’t offer their opinions on the news..
These are two totally different universes- what goes on at most blogs takes the stories that have been reported in the major newspapers as a starting place- and then explores em..
There are a few blogs (eg drudge) who do some first hand reporting- and his track record for accuracy is pretty stinky- but by and large there is very little reporting in the blogosphere.
Montag@40. AMEN Amen again!
It is not difficult to imagine a segment of D.C. reporters who view information in a way completely seperate from idealogy. Use of information to curry favor of the reporters own career/status. Reporting something they know is to further the source’s agenda in return for advancement of the reporters’s career.
The notion of being part of the D.C. cocktail party circut is more important than idealogy.
Pach,
Such a good post, so well thought out. We all have so much to learn.
Thank you for giving of your time.
Trouble brewing in Republicanville. John Warner is off the reservation on the Bush/McCain troop massacre/sacrifice.
I guess John Warner can now be called “unserious” by Bloody Bill Kristol.
-GSD
RT @ 47
In the political world, that was I.F. Stone. He delighted in using the official documents of Washington to ferret out some incredible lies and general stupidity. Did it all through subscriptions to a newsletter. He didn’t party with the people he wrote about, and like bloggers, he and his readers were his editors. If Izzy Stone were alive today, he’d be a blogger–and a good one.
Mmmm, meta analysis and effect sizes. Good times. Brings back grad school to me. Thanks for the shout out to psychology as a science (I wish more universities would put it in the natural sciences instead of social, but hey its a broad field.)
Josh Marshall wrote last year:
Let me say, as someone with a former journalist wife, this squares with what I have seen.
One imagines that all stories, at all levels, due to reporter bias, outlet bias, perception bias, time pressure, whatever–have many biases of all sorts. Even a “neutral” media outlet is likely to produce stories and assertions all over the map.
If you take sure an outlet, and systematically erase one sort of bias, you will perforce create a bias in the other direction. (A set of numbers, which average to 0, will average to a negative number if you remove all the positive ones–that’s just math.)
It doesn’t take conspiracy, or even an outright, explicit, rightwing bias to create a right-biased media. All it takes is a systematic attempt to remove all possible left-leaning biases.
1970cs @ 57
Sorry, I just don’t buy this. We all have to take responsibility for what we do. If they know they are publishing garbage (and here of course far worse) just for career “highs” they should be run out of the business. Where are the journalism boards? Its much worse, of course, because the owners of some of these papers are pimping in the same cause. If a pharmaceutial company had done as bad a job on a particular medication over this period of time, with as much death and mayhem and cost, even it would have come under some scrutiny by now.
GSD @ 58
Don’t forget “irresponsible.”
I find myself critiquing the New York Times a lot recently. Perhaps it is because it is the newspaper of record or maybe it’s because it is so easy. Consider this part of an ongoing series.
Libby Trial to Display Changed Reporter-Source Relations by Niel Lewis
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01…..press.html
The NYT continues to have difficulties in covering its own relations with Judith Miller who is, of course, one of those reporters involved in the Libby Trial. What I find odd in this article is all the dogs that didn’t bark in it. The events surrounding Miller’s incarceration for refusing to divulge her source Scooter Libby are described but not the involvement of the Times in turning her case into a cause celebre in defense of the First Amendment, which blew up on them.
Rodney A. Smolla, the dean of the University of Richmond Law School whom the Times cites as an authority on the First Amendment is quoted as saying:
This is as close as the article comes to invoking First Amendment concerns and for that matter shield laws.
Instead the article seems to be laying out the New York Times position on confidentiality. Bill Keller the executive editor whom we all remember so well lays it out this way in the following “hypothetical”:
Libby Trial to Display Changed Reporter-Source Relations? Oh, no. It isn’t the Libby trial that will display this change. It is articles like this one that indicate that the New York Times has already changed its confidentiality policy and is simply using the cover of the Libby trial to announce it. This is a really major backdown dressed up as something else.
Nor does it discuss the problem of editors like Keller who get in bed metaphorically with their sources (the Administration) or reporters like Miller who do so literally (see DC phone book).
Nor is there even a passing mention that no First Amendment protection or shield law (if there were one in federal cases) would privilege the reporter-source relation where the reporter was a witness or party to the commission of a crime (disclosure of classified information) or where national security was concerned (the identity of an NOC CIA agent).
The last of the many mute puppies in this article is an admission by the New York Times that its own misguided and foolish defense of Judith Miller participated greatly in the weakening of confidentiality. The NYT fought to protect those who used national security to engage in political payback. In doing so, it has put at risk those reporters (some of them from the Times) who have written on this Administration’s many classified, extra-Constitutional programs. What can I say but thanks, New York Times.
Bill Moyers recently gave an address to the National Conference for Media, Memphis, Tennessee. Here’s a link to the two-part video followed by the transcript:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011807B.shtml
Pachacutec @ 53
They had baseball in Cuzco?
Pachacutec @ 53
Take two and hit to right.
James became an advisor to the Sox in 2002…
Assistant GM Theo Epstein (at the time) said, “I think he’s going to be most valuable in the areas where we do a good job of keeping him up to speed with current information. For instance, we might point out to him that there is a certain opportunity for a trade, or a certain way we can use a player. Then he comes back with an initial reaction based on a quick study. Next, we might play the devil’s advocate by giving a traditional baseball response to his commentary, or asking if there’s a general rule that we can take from this conclusion. And then he goes off and does a tremendous amount of research, after which we may end up with something very useful that we didn’t know before.”
You can be the next Blog Doctor?
Beisbol.
Reporters have become extremely lazy. While Tiger Woods was hot, all golf stories were framed as “Will Tiger Win?,” “Tiger Wins,” “Tiger Loses” or “Why did Tiger Lose?” Saves time over writing a real story.
Hugh:Yes, Yes and Yes. These days, the Boston Globe is a far better paper (more honest assessment, more provocative issues, better coverage) on the war than the NYT (though both are owned by the same company. There was an awesome piece this weekend (Saturday maybe – sorry no linky – the Globe had something about the huge problems US private contractors in Iraq are having getting Halliburton etc to pay for their promised medical coverage for amputations and other things in the war. Staggering. Now at first I wasn’t feeling bad these guys (in comparison to our military who are getting shafted), but in essence these guys also have been sold a bill of goods.
off topic;
been away all day celebrating with my friends cuz tomorrow’s my birthday…jane going home from the hospitol was more then I could have wished for my birthday present.
bought myself a birthday pontiac solstice anyway…love the car, love the lake
having a ball
To my knowledge no member of the media has been held accountable for any falsehood reported leading up to Bush’s war in 2003. From this premise why would anyone in the media care about being accurate if their are no consequences?
jayackroyd @ 45
But how does ‘the business of news’ give us quality journalism? What will the result be if the money that runs the news comes from advertisers and it is the owner/managers who have to be pleased, not the readers. This is not a mechanism that will produce an informed electorate.
This post reminded me of what was probably the first work to analyze DC press corps groupthink, Timothy Crouse’s The Boys on the Bus. Here’s the Amazon.com page: http://www.amazon.com/Boys-Bus-Timoth…..0345340159
Gah. Tim Russert is one scary-looking man. Mommy, make him stop staring at me!
GSD at 59
My first thought on reading that Warner was offering a softer version was that Warner was sent to make sure any resolution would be friendlier than the dems version. And if the dems go along, they would seem to me to be pulling their punches at this prez. I want no rigging of the fight, and Warner IMO could very well be doing this.
Of course I could be wrong. Just ask my kids…
1970cs @ 73
The journalism schools need to address this issue. And need to do assessments of this problem. It has seriously undermined the whole field of journalism. And, if anyone has any more questions on this – see Jeff Gannon.
rwcole @ 55
The distinctions between journalists (reporting the news) and bloggers (commenting on the news… and its reporting) have been blurred by the television punditocracy. Journalists may still have to write “articles” but they now also use cocktail weenie connections to pontificate before the befuddled populace.
Often expressing opinions which Pach’s post above devastates. These concepts are but an evolution from McLuhan’s Global Village, and became cemented in our culture in the 80’s as the technology grew. Broadband is changing the rules again.
Let me add a concept, blogging would never have attained its status so quickly had there not been such an overarching need for the truth.
kate peterson: ROFL!
Richmond @ 71
I agree that the Globule is a fine newspaper
but their reporting of the Libby case has been
horrendous … They are relying on the AP, with no reporter covering this major event…
I’m not sure if its financial, but they didn’t
even answer my question when I posed it…
Jack
I’m relatively new to reading blogs but I want to not only compliment Pach on an interesting and thoughtful analysis but share my thoughts from a very limited experience. What I have noticed is that blogs in both their posts and the comments are in general better thought out and more open to discussion than what I have seen on news programs. While there are those to the extreme on either side, it seems in general most people are looking for improvement – of whatever it is they are interested in – rather than simply shilling for their side and insulting the other. Perhaps the difference can be attributed to the fact that these are not designed for entertainment in the way that much MSM is today.
This is a subject wrangled at length here at the lake, and is near and dear to our hearts. This seems a very big thing, IMHO. Would love to get Howie’s take on it.
This is truly amazing, and, at the same time, infuriating. There were on the order of twenty to thirty thousand people in the streets here in Portland in early 2003, loudly saying No! to this war-to-be.
Not even a blip on the radar of the DC punditocracy? Well, they’re not doing their jobs, are they?
Pach
And that in great respect…
am de-lurking to tell you that was the most illuminating post I’ve read in ages. It isn’t ONLY the US Media, it’s the rest of the world because they are OWNED by only a few people.
Give ‘em BRAIN CANDY, and ‘Dancing with the Stars’, or American Idol or Big Brother, or the dread Paris Hilton, who is gonna be at the freaking Opera Ball in Vienna next month, and hey they’ll never know what hit them. Better that way.
Cynical, but true.
What you wrote was worthy of Digby analysis, of course, but even BETTER. And reflects a lot of opinion I have on the subject from looking on from far away.
And muchly of fits in with what I’ve been thinking in the two years I have been lurking here. I hear the same stuff where I am in Europe with a sychophant ‘Christian Democratic’ government ranting on about crazy liberal bloggers, to spew for….
If you ask me, you’re getting the horses frightened, and well it should be. Let them run, but lock your safe, dynamite the lock and hide the good stuff in the mattress, hey.
Have been following the court proceedings, and your insights are—well sorta overwhelming, and insightful.
Am so looking forward to how it develops, and hope for the worst for ‘Scooter’, turns whistle blower. (gawd! I knew a Chipper once in the Fifties, but Scooter??? Give me a break, hey…)
Ms. Wheeler: your turn today was so on spot and concise, NOW I know why your intellect is like a scalpel.
I haven’t given my wishes to Jane other than to light a candle (damned that Catholic background…) but wish her full recovery and health and energy forever.
And wish to add—if all this had been possible in the Seventies. To gather so many interesting people together into a community, and MOVE things… I probably never would have left. And knowing people HERE, well, it’s gonna take another ten years, and I don’t know how to go about it.
I admire you all so.
Sorry, I get all sentimental, and so on. Not important.
Doesn’t matter. Am old, sort of, other than my head. And there you keep me young.
You are all amazing. Do what my generation couldn’t because we didn’t have the tools to do it with.
And NO, am not some rant person on an adrenaline high. Want to see justice done, however it turns out, and I have the feeling that will lie higher up in the end if he wants to save his butt.
And as ususal, just running off at the keyboard….
Nite from Middle Europe.
Professor Foland @
62
There are two big problems with the media bending over backwards to avoid “liberal” bias — first, everyone gets screwed.
Second, what the screeching wingnut harpies call “liberal bias” is a bias towards facts — this so called liberal bias is the truth.
Right wing opinion is, more often than not, outright lies. And that is the problem — instead of achieving balance, the MSM reprints wingnut lies and avoids the truth, to avoid false accusations of “liberal” bias.
rwcole @ 55
But remember, news analysis and punditry are big steps up the ladder for reporters. So I’d rephrase Pach’s point a little and say it’s as if someone started doing for free the job you hope to get promoted to. That’s the point where our people are real competition.
Bay State Librul @ 80
On the trial there is nothing here, I agree. They obviously don’t have the money, or perhaps interest. I was referring to the war only. There is alot I don’t like about the Globe. Their op ed people are mediocre since Oliphant took early retirement (but thank god Cathy Young now is going bye bye). Also, their coverage of women’s sports sucks.
Crazy Horse @ 79
And I’d add this point–on subjects for which there are readily accessible public documents, bloggers are doing some of the same work as journalists. On this story, I was the first person to note that Libby testified that Dick and Bush had authorized him to leak the NIE; with Murray Waas and Jeff, I’m one of the few people who has actually figured out that’s a bunch of BS; I seem to be the only person who has reported that Novak was forced to testify about an unmentioned meeting with Libby, and that Libby’s lawyers say he did so without a waiver (that is, he burned poor Irving). Joseph Tate seems to have been taken off Libby’s team without any notice, which I reported over the weekend. And so on and so on. I tmay be that these things aren’t considered “news,” but frankly, I disagree.
A quick film on how bloggers should respond to unwarranted rightwing media attacks.
The Bloggers are represented by the black kid, the mainstream media is holding the mike, doing the interview. The rightwing media in a scary mask launches an attack from the trash bin……This is how to respond to those attacks.
-GSD
Richmond @ 77
While I agree with your premise, it’s like asking GWB to be truthful. Until such a time that punitive consequences are involved for reporting misleading or cherry picked information, nothing will change. Ethics cannot be taught.
Pach,
I just wanted to say great job on that piece. I have had some similar experiences as an outsider working with seasoned reporters and it took me weeks to get my observations about the way they work organized into the conclusions you have put together in only a few days.
Allow me to make a few additional comments…
Reporters are also keenly aware of the gravity of a story as it is perceived by heavyweight publications. For example, if a major news outlet has four people assigned to something that typically gets three, other reporters will notice that and pay closer attention to the things being studied by the extra or all four reporters. This is not unlike the blogosphere, where the more something is linked by the big blogs, the more it gets discussed around the net, but it comes with an opportunity cost as well, since other details can be missed while reporters are chasing each other instead of what they’ve been assigned to cover.
Please look for triangulation, too. If a news outlet can afford to have multiple people assigned, one reporter might be asking questions that seem absurd, even rude, but it takes pressure off the others and opens doors for more subtle interrogators.
Also, regarding competency, I’m certain that some (or most, if not all) reporters with a beat have had experience as a stringer and know how difficult it is to walk into a beat with no real background on the situation and no familar sources with any kind of trust established. When you do that, your goal is to avoid writing something wrong or something so obvious that it goes without saying as much as your goal is to get a good piece of information on paper. Any reporter who has worked hard to establish the kind of relationships required to do the job comfortably will almost automatically believe that nobody on the outside could just waltz right in an really get a handle of the story.
It also makes them feel like they are perfectly suited to do the meta-analysis. It is so difficult to walk in as a stringer and scrutinize the situation in detail — while understanding how those details fit into the previous day or days — that reporters on the beat sort of dread having days off. Once you are in the rhythm of the news cycle, it is much easier. I think that they can zoom out and appreciate the big picture (some more than others), but there is definitely a perspective that they can never fully grasp because they are a part of it. They think they have front row seats and we’re in the balcony. They don’t always realize that they are actually part of the show.
There are a million little things that go one at the press conference or in the media rooms that are fascinating to a blogger or outsider, but will never make it to any published article. There are a zillion things that just aren’t interesting to the insiders because they see them every day. They take a great deal for granted.
Finally, they do understand that some of the things that don’t make it to the paper are important. They might know about some personal problem somebody was having that could have affected their comments or attitude. Maybe they know somebody was hung over or slept on the couch. That will never make it to the paper, but since they know it — and the news consumers and bloggers don’t — that makes them feel justified in distinguishing themselves as more capable.
Good observations Pach (as always.)
One thing though that is always hovering over the MSM. . . MONEY. As advertisers and sponsors feel threatened by a piece ( tobacco – defense industries) they grab the editors testicles until they relent and back off. The truth suffers and we get never ending stories that are creamy and without substance – (a woman leaves on her wedding day – or yet another white girl kidnapping.) Bloggers are not subject to that kind of pressure. Not yet anyway.
The ideas in this post could go in a number of ways and have many dimensions. The “bubble” is just the natural result of a subculture trying to maintain its identity. Thus it has boundaries to maintain, etc.
Little did DARPA know that by trying to produce a system that had no center, and therefor could not be taken down, could they imagine it would become a social structure (what I like to call a “heterarchy”) that was strong because of its diversity, not its similarity.
Another big problem with MSM reporting is the myth of objectivity. There is NO objective perspective in politics — EVERYTHING is subjective.
This leads to stenography, under the phony mantle of objectivity.
Ben Dover @ 70
Reporters and editors have always been lazy. No media outlet [print/radio/television] wants to appear as though it isn’t covering what its audience is interested in. So if everyone is talking about the Bears, and your radio news coverage includes sports, then you need to cover the Bears. If everyone is talking about Angelina and her adopted children, then your magazine needs to do a piece about Angelina and her children. Editors have one eye on what competitor media outlets are covering. That’s part of the herd mentality of modern journalism.
That herd mentality is at its worst in the hothouse of inside-the-beltway political journalism and punditry.
I’ll put in a plug for one of the best places to understand journalism as it is practiced today: Columbia Journalism Review.
You have ignored the power of the Newspaper owners in determining editorial policy. Here in Germany we have, for example, the Springer group, with a conservative bias. All of their newspapers/magazines follow the conservative line. and these are the mass-circulation papers. We don’t need to mention Murdoch of ourse and his influence on the MSM. I don’t think there is much editorial independace around out the moment so the reporters are “doing as they are told”.
Nice summary Pachacutec. I hope many journalists read this post.
One small (in required amount of text or air time) but significant example of MSM bubble coddling of a politician is the blind acceptance and false use of “Independent Democrat” when describing Senator Lieberman, long after what I am sure are multiple e-mails requesting a correction of this title.
The only rebuttal I am aware of is that this is how Senator Lieberman wants to be described.
If your profession requires that you look outside the box or in the case of this thread the DC bubble, well, I think after years of waiting for so called professional to understand they are being hoodwinked at best, is a little more time or sympathy than I am willing to allow for. I am no pro nor have I spent more than the last ten months paying attention (since a permanent break from news in 2002). How can one make excuses for the fact a poor uneducated hillbilly was able to see (long before he was aware of blogs) such gross ineptitude across the board such as the so called prewar evidence? At best many of these journalists are failing to ask blatently obvious questions much less seek out answers. It’s one thing to make mistakes but to allow them to go on for years with overwhelming evidence to the contrary should be unacceptable for continued recognition or gainful employment. The problems appear systemic and somewhat collaborative to this observer.
To amplify (or clarify) Crazy Horse @ 79
One of the fundamental concepts from Marketing 101:
Products must fulfill a need.
You can hype something to death, but no one will buy it unless it fulfills a need.
Of course, the need is not always obvious.
FoxNews fulfills a need for people who want simple answers dressed up as “Hard truths” .
Blogs fill the vacuum created by the Geraldos posing as Investigative Reporters.
Someone has to actually read the documents, and thats where Marcie, Jane, Christy et al come in.
God bless them all.
I think it’s also important to remember that way to become a successful public “expert” (pundit) is not to be correct, but to make unlikely predictions. (There was an article in the New Yorker a few months back about a scientific study documenting this.)
Essentially, the effect is that people are likely to forget the times when you were badly wrong, but if you luck into one outrageous prediction that turns out to be correct, your reputation is made forever.
I have some small hope that the institutional memory provided by the blogs may begin to counteract this. Essentially, we provide the service of looking back on those multiple failures and falsehoods that mainstream punditry never finds it interesting to look at. (Perhaps in large part because it’s assumed that no one should write or talk about the opinions of a pundit except him/herself, another glaring difference in the blogosphere.)
1970cs @ 90
Disagree again. If the Columbia School of Journalism, or Northwestern’s were to put out a yearly list of journalists (and specific articles) that were found to be egregious (sorry E…), that would have a big impact. THey put out a list of great journalism pieces; the other kind is as, if not more important. The Times can do all it wants in routing out and condemning plagarism. In real every day terms, however, that issue in some ways takes a back seat to what we have been seeig here. Fairness and honesty in the media is central, partcularly since so much of the media is owned by one or two giants. They have big law staffs, the only way to get them to correct their behavior is to hold their professional journalists accountable.
On ethics can’t be taught. THis is more of an issue of accuracy than ethics. I could care less who Judy sleeps with (with or without her husband’s consent) but if she presents lies in an article series that takes us into an unnecessary war – that is a problem.
Have any of you considered that the very argument of “reporter” vs. “blogger” is a strawman? As if you (i.e. bloggers) are being forced to the table to negotiate terms of engagement, when there is nothing to negotiate, or talk about, or explain. It is a fools errand, and is intended to keep you from blogging/reporting. Not that it will, but it obviously is taking up a fair bit of bloggers’ time. You (i.e. bloggers) don’t need to explain yourselves, or justify your existence or your popularity (or lack there of).
I think someone posted something on this above, but the battle isn’t between “reporters” and “bloggers,” it’s between forms of media distribution and in the end money and capital investment and jobs and profits.
Perhaps bloggers are TOO self-aware. Just saying.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 101
Someone pointed out above that we are a “well schooled lot” at FDL. True, and we read alot, but as Pach points out, the impact of all of us together (I really hate to say a thousand points of light, a bushism) but is far more powerful than any single one of us – or any msm journalist – no matter what insider interview they can get.
1970cs @ 73
There was a link a few days ago on this. Sorry I don’t have it. That compared how those who were wrong about Iraq Kristol, Beinart, and Zakaria had careers that had only gone up while those like Ritter and Shearer (formerly of the LA Times) who were right had seen their careers go downhill. If anything there is a perverse incentive going on here.
emptywheel is live blogging again upstairs.
montag @
60
It was indeed. Perhaps I should’ve just talked about Izzy Stone, rather than talking about a guy from a completely unrelated field.
But Bill James was the guy who, more than anyone else, taught me how to think for myself. Took a few years for his meta-message to sink in, but eventually it got there.
EPU: I’m also trying to create a model for reporters and editors to understand and make use of what many of us writing online potentially have to offer.
Don’t forget Phil Donahue.
-GSD
Hugh @ 103
Excellent point. TOo bad they are again live blogging. These are key issues.
nj progressive @ 96
Oh really?
Are you familiar with Bree Nordenson’s recent hack piece on Paul Krugman in CJR?
And there’s more where that came from. Here’s a link to a nice analysis of Bree’s article:
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/…..nt_12.html
sofistic @ 94
This insight bears repeating.
Bush/Mccain troop massacre
Bloody Bill Kristol
I’m using those every chance I get, thanks!
Hey, what if we put all the branches of government in different cities all over the country, and we called government employees and politicians “servers?”
Libby
Liveblog Jury Instructions 2
upstairs
Pachacutec @
34
You rock Pach! Was so hoping it would be cool to spotlight your posts and our other FDL leading lights covering the trial live. Doing a Snoopy dance!
Thanks to you all!
*xyz @ 110
Very interesting, Thanks. Hadn’t known about this.
Pachacutec @
69
Beisbol been berra berra good to Chico Esquela!
sofistic @ 113
For that to work, I think we’d have to revamp the communications protocol for politicians…
RT, I think the Bill James observation is excellent.
FOX has made no secret of their business model. They target 35 to 60 year old white male Republicans, and tailor content to suit that audience, reality be damned. This past year I witnessed the the local CT media ignore reality as it happenned with Ned Lamont. The media as it exists is about getting out a message, not facts. I don’t believe this is a recent phenomina, just highly pronounced with the explosion of media outlets.
sticks her head out of the FDL attic . . .
wow Pachacutec, simply wow. I just hate it when you make me revise my dearly held notions*g*
one more -
http://firedoglake.blogspot.co…..ggers.html
and for the sake of ‘balance’ -
even my beloved Mark Twain – indulged in a little journalistic conflict of interest – Roughing It – waxing rhapsodic on Nevada’s newly mined veins of silver – taking shares of a claim as payment.
What a great blog, Pach. Very insightful. Should be gold plated and sent to all editors and MSM personnel.
I often observed that the media who write on major events never actually see the whole event. Such as the deposition of Bill Clinton. Media were tearing it apart only 1 minute into it. Things have to be watched, thought about and then commented upon. A summary is inadequate. A little time to absorb and reflect is all important. This is why the weekly mags should be so good. Too bad they aren’t anymore. They merely spend all their resources trying to find a gimmick and then to reinforce the conventional wisdom. It is so shallow and non productive to the national debate.
I seriously wonder why the MSM hang onto their support of Bush. If I were a TV executive, I would insist that Bush’s face rarely be on the screen unless accompanied by scalding criticism. Why would the TV powers that be spend so much money on getting us to tune in and then show Bush’s face or voice? It makes 70% of us crazy and we can’t find the remote fast enough to change the channel.
I am here to defend jason leopold. I find it incredibly difficult to comprehend why these editors you refer to would single out this reporter snd smear him in such an atrocious way when all the mainstream reporters did a terrible job on this story snd brought us to war. It is wrong to discredit all of leopolds reporting becusse of rove. If you look at his past reporting he included court transcripts in many of his stories that no one else got. This is very unfair to him. Pach, who are the msm editors? And what do they say about their own reporters? Come on guys, this is wrong and unfair snd I suspect it has to do with the fact that leopold wrote a book and revealed things about Howard Kurtz that resulted in him being hated by the msm. After reading the wsj editorial this weekend I don’t know how these ungrates can smear leopold with a straight face on this story when it is them who peddle unsupported stories snd rumors. I think its time to call the real bs.
Ick on Russert’s fat, fleshy mug, too!
I guess that’s my sterling contribution to the profound media analysis going on here.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 97
One of the things that contributes to this is an educational system which has increasingly compartmentalized fields of study–call it the “specialization syndrome.” Today, journalism schools often lump journalism and PR courses together–there’s, perforce, some line-blurring that inevitably happens because of that short-cut.
But, in the case of the lead-up to the war, much of the real reporting depended upon two things–understanding the mechanism by which shoddy, false intelligence was being pipelined into Bush’s office. The failure to understand that was clearly due to a lack of cultivation of critical sources outside the political side of the White House.
The second thing was a general lack of understanding of the details of the purported intelligence which even first-year science courses would have provided, or aided in developing a little skepticism about the evidence offered by the White House. Damned few networks or papers today have a guy who’s the dedicated science writer and to whom beat reporters can go with the flacks’ info and chew on it a while. Left to their own devices, most reporters will swallow BS because they don’t recognize it as such. And, if they’re up against a deadline and the newsroom is short-handed, the further tendency is to just steno it all.
For example, the aluminum tubes story should have immediately raised big flags, and for two possible reasons. The reports out of Jordan were that the intercepted tubes were of a diameter that would have made them too big and heavy for a gas centrifuge, and that they were anodized. On the latter, my first thought was that the only gas used in such separations would be a hexafluoride, which is highly reactive and would have eaten the anodizing and the residue would have gummed up the centrifuge piping, so why were they specified to be anodized?
I was immediately skeptical because of some first-year college chemistry and a couple of years of high-school physics. Maybe not enough education in those fields to provide an expert opinion, but enough to generate skepticism about the way the intelligence was being promoted.
I think there are plenty of reporters out there who aren’t inclined to admit they don’t know when to be skeptical because of their shortcomings with regard to the analysis of technical stuff. So, they just report what they’ve been told. If no whistleblower seeks them out and says, “psst, that tubes stuff–it’s bullshit, and here’s why,” then it doesn’t come out until well after the fact, and, usually, only because of the release of a document which says the same thing.
Maybe it comes down to not enough skepticism, in general, in the absence of verifiable information.
rose Marie @ 122
I only want to clarify that I am not claiming anyone mentioned Leopold’s name to me among the media people this past week. I am only saying that Leopold’s poor and sensationalistic Libby stories have been used in the past to discredit all online writers/bloggers on the Plame story, and for that matter, on other stories.
Re: the mechanic metaphor.
When the guy who fixed my brakes forgot to tighten the lug nuts on the right front wheel, and that wheel fell off when I was two blocks away from the shop and rolled away down the street endangering pedestrians and other motorists and causing my car to tip onto that side causing extensive front end damage I actually criticized him a little.
OK, a lot. Loudly. And I didn’t feel I was at all unqualified to do so…
When reporters fuck up and totally miss something obvious (like the fact that the Bush administration LIES to them) I feel we, the consumers, have every right to criticize them, too.
rose Marie @ 123
Pach is not validating the bad reporting with the Leopold comment. But he kept saying he had inside sources and he either made them up, or was trusting people who clearly didn’t know. One canonly call wolf so many times before one has to be held accountable for the many times one was wrong. Accountable means here, as with Miller, you don’t trust them so readily in the future. Sorry, they made their own beds (and benefitted while sleeping in them).
Rose Marie – I think it’s important for us to expect and demand the best possible coverage from “our team.” Leopold floated stories that were not based in fact and created a hype circus around them that undermined all the good reporting being done on the Libby case on the blogs.
We’re happy to have your opinion but let’s agree to disagree on this one.
cbl, I love the “link you bastards link!!!” link.
What a delightful read. Actually, I think that post is one reason I don’t miss my paper WaPo. I love being able to explore articles / topics I’m interested in more depth because of… the LINKS!!!!
Quoting from upstairs (live blog): Richmond @ 34
And if I can do a reverse of EPU’d (UPE’d?!?!). Isn’t this what this particular blog is all about. WHere is MSM on this one. I dare say the NYT and Washington Post won’t have this in their front page stories. Why not? Hmmmmmmm.
May I say how glad I am Marcy is the one liveblogging the current dispute at bar?
Siun @ 129
But that description applies to a good chunk of the traditional media and they usually get away with it.
rumi @ 133
We are saying they (and us) should no longer be able to get away with it. That is the whole point here.
CatelynK @
26
Excellent article. Thank you for your time and effort.
Richmond @ 134
I don’t think the traditional media/msm would ever consider giving up the use of anonymous sources, would they? Is that part of the issue?
rumi @ 136
Anonymous sources is not the issue. For me the question is accuracy, competency, honesty. When Judy Miller (and Jason Leopold) get it so wrong, so many times, they need to be held accountable. We can’t sue them, so how do we respond. We refuse to read them, or put up a stink when they try to get their pieces in places (web sites or newsprint) we consider responsible.
Frankly, I never really looked at who wrote a given piece in the NYT before the Judith Miller scandal broke. Now I do. I see things by David Kirkpatrick, for example, and I know there will be a lop-sided pro-fundie slant to it. When I see Leopold’s name attached to something, I ask myself if it has any validity. It is all about accountability.
rumi @ 135
Source cultivation and maintenance is a big factor, but not one I feel I have a close grasp upon. But the trial will be revealing, eh?
I wonder if there isn’t more to it than just an inside the Beltway tunnelvision/mindset that seeks to avoid liberal bias.
Look at some of the hirings/firings in the last few years, particularly since we learned there were no WMD in Iraq, Saddam wasn’t connected to 9/11, and that the Iraq occupation wasn’t going as well as the Administration claimed.
In particular, the hiring of Michael Gerson (previously of the White House Iraq Group, aka Lie Factory) by Fred Hiatt of the WaPo on 9/12/2006. Time Magazine just hired wingnut welfare recipient William Kristol. And the L.A. Times (under management of the Tribune Company) hired Jonah Goldberg while firing Robert Scheer.
What is striking to me at least is the lucky new employees all had distinguished themselves by being wrong about Iraq, and in being wrong from the perspective of the 2006 electorate (this last doesn’t apply to the LA Times, of course, as that move was older).
Isn’t the explanation that these people reflect and support the interests of the owners of said media outlets, and that is what makes them ‘right’, plausible?
David Kaplan (I think his name is), the military analyst for the Times, is equally problematic. I know his articles will be largely mouthpieces for the administration – or those the administration wants (or allows) him to talk to.
I have no problem with this sort of bias or slant if it is on the Op Ed page. You know that Friedman and Brooks are pro-war apologists (largely concerned with how US foreign policy may or may not impact Israel) no matter if they occasionally address other subjects – Friedman on gasoline consumption (largely the same issue), and Brooks on the so-called break down in the family.
Now, unfortunately, more and more of the actual writing on issues linked to politics and the war in the NYT has an op ed feel to it. That is what concerns me most.
I think we’re dealing with two distinct standards of influence when comparing the TM/MSM and blogs. The traditional media had become the definitive ‘truth’ that was available to the public as a means of being informed. When the blogs came along, a new source of information was made available as a way to compare the accuracy of the TM/MSM.
The limitations of timely production and audience (TM/MSM) helped contribute to a lower standard being sought for what information to use. The trend to utilizing less precise terms, theories, explanations and other criteria in order to ‘keep it simple, stupid’ also led to a less informed audience.
The blogs are the source of information for those who seek more detail, analysis, insight, and diversity of thought. I noticed the use of reporter pooling that has one voice to result in a diluted finished product for mass consumption.
The similarity between the two is the effect a small number of influential people can have on what is claimed to be the broad consensus.
Pachacutec @
53
I had to throw away the annual Abstracts because constantly rereading them was detracting from my graduate schoolwork. But they came at a perfect time for me. A lot of my coursework involved statistics. Bill James really understands statistics–that statistics is not about numbers, it’s about truth. And about not fooling yourself into believing something that isn’t true. James is constantly reevaluating his evidence. In the Historical Abstract, he makes a big deal out of Bay State Librul @
68
He was already working, long before his Sox gig, with agents prepping for arbitration hearings. What I’ve always found amusing about all this is that he pretty much endorses the strategies of the most successful manager of all time, Earl Weaver. And pretty much disses the least successful manager (who accumulated enough games to be assessed) of all time, Gene Mauch.
And yet, when you turn on the sports radio, they’re are idiots calling for more sac bunts, a strategy that Weaver derided in more or less vitupertive terms.
For those sabrematricians out there, don’t miss Moneyball by Michael Lewis.
It’s a fascinating look at how Billy Beane of the Oakland A’s discovered new metrics by which to evaluate talent under his restrictive salary cap. The A’s won their division with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball for several years running.
Be sure to click through the Amazon link at the top of the post to purchase.
1970cs @
120
It isn’t just Fox — CNN may be targeting a slightly younger, slighly less dumb audience but they’re Fox Lite. This morning, while reporting on the “Libby ‘Scooter’ Lewis” case (what happened to I. or Irving??) the talking head said that jury selection was continuing today, having already taken twice as long as it was supposed to. That set off a bell in my head because I remember from Pach’s blogging and David Schuster’s reports that Walton had hoped to finish selection by last Thursday. It took me a minute to realize that they must have counted Friday, Saturday, and Sunday as if they’d been active court days! I guess we’re eager to give the impression that the trial is a bogged down mess before it even gets started, facts be damned…
yeah…actually, the trial is only a part of a day behind schedule. That’s part of the inaccuracy that diminishes other good work.
The inaccuracies that will hurt more are the media’s enabling of portraying the terrorism problem as a certified global war and the potus as the war president. That gives the preznit the chance to assume broad power without accountability.
that’s really messed up citing one reporter on Plame when there are loads of other MSM you could have also included. Maligning someone is really what we should be avoiding. Post was good until your smear.
I don’t know leopold but I remember his story on the 250 email thing, the stranger on the street he found that Joe wilson confirmed, the fact that Libby first leaked NIE to woodward, etc. etc.
I don’t think that qualifies for “atrocious” reporting. Meanwhile, Judith Miller brought us to war and so did every other paper and reporter except for Jon Landman at Knight ridder. this is really starting to become a ridiculous popularity contest about who is good and who is bad.
I’ll tell you all something. When the leopold crap hit the fan I bought a copy of his book out of sheer curiousity. I learned more about the MSM and what goes on behind the scenes in his book. I agree with rose that what leopold wrote about Kurtz probably pissed kurtz off.
Whatever leopold’s deal I don’t know but singling out him seems to really be stupid.
Fwiw, I think Leopold’s mistake was painting himself into a corner on that last Rove story. It’s ironic that his predicament had qualities similar to other Rove ’situations’. I believe in the totality of his work and I never believe everything I read, anywhere.
He had enough people wanting to quiet him with his work on White/Enron that was vindicated. Funny too how that circle overlaps with the same ones that got him bounced.
You are way too generous to these “reporters”, a.k.a. stenographers. How is it that an independent investigative journalist, like Greg Palast, can consistently show the breathtaking corruptions and utter inadequacy of this administration and the republicans in general, for years? Why is it that the BBC, and even Al Jazeera, even the Daily Show is better at reporting the reality of this world than anything in American MSM?
When I look at the counterparts, any counterpart on the MSM, it’s as if they live on another planet! Sure, you have Olberman, who has been improving over the last several years, but what else? Any truly honest journalist have been forced out or/and marginalized. Bill Moyers is a good example. Replaced by Tucker Carlson?!? Excuse me while I projectile vomit!
Reporters should be objective and impartial with the facts, yada, yada, yada. Alas, I don’t think they know what that even means today. Frankly, as a human being working for a massive, omnipresent corporation, fearful of the slightest negative liberally oriented criticism, how can you ever be that? The “agenda” is always there. All too often, balance is having the one, well paid shill, for some corporate front group weighing in against 99% of the community and the facts at hand while being stoked and blown on the questions given. That’s impartial? Sorry, equating stealing a candy bard and stealing a country as being balanced on the subject of stealing is anything but.
In the end, you have to ask yourself: who you are, what do you want and whom (what) will you serve? The ones that have answered these questions and still work for the MSM are, mostly, the shills, the paid talking heads or enforcers known as editors and producers. The front men and face of an agenda that is anything but “We the people”. The ones that haven’t answered these questions satisfactorily for themselves are the idealistic dupes in training to be shills; for the most part. The best initiative they can hope to do is report a fact, and even that has to be cross verified six ways to Sunday to ascertain the truth of it.
I’m glad you are making new friends and I understand you have to all be smiley and chummy in the bullpen. Still, try not to loose your perspective when interacting with these corporate shills and dupes.
Pachacutec,
Thank you for this thoughtful commentary on blogging vs. journalism. I think what we are witnessing is the evolution of journalism. Blogging and conventional journalism are influencing each other in new and dynamic ways. For example, blogging started out in diarist form. A true diarist does not bother with footnotes. But a true diarist is seldom in dialog with a dynamic reading audience, either. So bloggers are vulnerable to challenges from outsiders, and as a result, bloggers linked sources and started using block quotes instead of paraphrased summaries. The bloggers who attracted the most interest found that they had little time for anything else because, as you probably know only too well, writing good blogs takes *time*. [How long did it take you to write this “Libby Trial Meta”?] And it takes time because you spend more of your time getting things right– just like a journalist would do.
Oh, and btw, doesn’t the root meaning of “journalism” mean about the same thing as diarying? What, after all, is the difference between a journal and a diary?
Bloggers and journalists are, after all, in a similar business: neither is a matter of mere self expression; both are interested in cultivating an audience. To do that, you have to build trust with readers who will come back for more.
There is a third side of this triangle: entertainment. Journalism in some quarters has become little more than a form of entertainment, and there is every gradation between the two. Blogging is not above entertainment, either: The original Wonkette, for example, had a large component of entertainment in it (panda love???) I eventually stopped visiting the Wonkette page because (a) the original Wonkette withdrew, and (b) the educational content faded.
I predict that the line between blogging and journalism will become increasingly blurred. It may be that in terms of professional credentialing, “journalism” will remain a “profession” and “blogging” will still be considered a “hobby,” but I see a lot of convergence. And FDL coverage of the Libby trial is a good example.
Bob in HI
lastly, just a final comment on using Leopold, he IS NOT a blogger. He is a journalist who happens to work for an online magazine. It is not his fault if the MSM labels him that and I think they do that to certain reporters to try and diminish the seriousness of their work, particularly when it means the online indy journalists are making them look bad.
I do remember that whole dust up with White/Enron that the other commenter talked about and I remember how Leopold’s report was finally vindicated during the Skilling trial. I think it was like three years later but still. Seems like Gary Webb redux. Except this time its the bloggers who are joining in.
Pach, it looked like
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I think the substantive and essential response to Pachacutec’s Important Discourse here is Peterr’s (#14, give or take one, depending on re-numbering this comment software may impose).
I have not read all the comments, but was going through them looking for what I found as early as Peterr’s (supra).
Peterr’s point (and, admittedly, perhaps high-lighted after comment #14, though un-read by me) that I would like to emphasize, is that bloggers are Not Reporting; rather, the blogosphere is populated by Meta-Editors.
And that is a good thing.
Jason Leopold is indeed not a blogger. He was trained by Dow Jones. He’s a product of the establishment.
He seems, actually, a rather tragic figure to me.
Pach,
Nice analysis. Thank you for volunteering.
Corporate control of the media (and government) is a definite factor in maintaining the current fascist status quo. As a former small town radio reporter, (a job description that doesn’t exist anymore), I experienced the owner’s editorial control. It’s a million times worse at the conglomerate level where it’s all about the bottom line. News is just part of the Entertainment Division.
Hugh @
104
Here’s the link for the article from Radar Online:http://www.radaronline.com/features/2007/01/betting_on_iraq_1.php