The schedule for the afternoon appears to be this: Start by resolving the jury intstructions. Then get into the peremptories.
We're starting ... Walton asks if anyone has any comment about proposed instructions.
Debra Bonamici (Fitz' team) has one comment about the perjury and false statement instruction in the definition of "material"--she proposes changing the term "misrepresentation" in a passage that reads misrepresentation is material if it has a natural tendancy"--they propose to keep it "false statement," not "misrepresentation" in all incidences.
She also explains that the government has a strong objection on instruction on classified information, but since it will only be pertinent to if [IF?!?!?!?!] defendant decides to testify, so the government will respond to it later.
Libby's team needs some time to read the instructions, so Walton is going to go take a break. We're watching Libby's team crowd around their table reading Walton's proposed instruction. Wells is still bent over the instructions. I can't really see what Fitzgerald is doing.
Okay, we're back.
Walton explains that Wells has had a request that jurors be warned not to have contact with anyone in the hallway. But Walton says it won't be a problem. He says jurors will be "partially sequestered." Jurors will be picked up in the morning from an offsite location, brought into a room, catered breakfast and lunch, at the end of the day they'll be taken to the same undisclosed location so they can go home.
Wells: raises an issue on the Valerie Plame Wilson status: changes "and whether disclosure" to and "whether or not disclosure."
Wells: On obstruction of justice count. He says Defense and Prosecution are arguing about whether a statement should be conjunctive ("and") or disjunctive ("or"). [I kind of want to start singing Schoolhouse Rock, "Conjunction junction, what's your function??"]
Wells just said Grossman will be first witness. Hmm, don't know if that was a hypothetical or not.
What Wells is trying to do is make sure the obstruction charge cannot include whether Libby told the truth about whether he learned of Plame from the 8 government officials. He would like the obstruction charge to be determine just on the question of whether Libby learned of Plame from Russert or not. Basically, he's trying to force the government to prove the Russert alleged lying charges in order to count as an obstruction charge. Or at the least, Wells is trying to avoid any Grossman-related false statement charge.
[I think Wells is making a bogus charge here--the indictment, IMO, makes it clear that there are two aspects to the alleged lies relating to Russert, both whether Libby learned of Plame from Russert, and whether he lied about how he learned of Plame.]
But for the moment Wells is willing to put this off somewhat.
Walton says it'll end up being resolved by the time we get to the instructions. Walton is saying, don't do too much on the details regarding other witnesses. They seem to have reached agreement on "or" for the moment, so a teeny win for Bonamici.
Fitz has a question--what are the logistics for how we're going to exercise the strikes.
They'll get a sheet of paper so the lawyers don't have to announce in front of the jurors. Government goes first, with one strike, than the defense has two strikes, in rounds. (Government has 6 total strikes of jurors plus two of alternates; Libby has 10 strikes of jurors plus two of alternates). There will be 16 in the box, the jurors who are designated as alternates will be in alternates seats.
Fitz: "I hate to be a geek about it." Numbers 33 to 36 could never end up in the juror box, which means 33 to 36 could only be alternates.
Someone was a math major at Amherst, and I think it's Mr. Geek.
Wells is pointing at Fitz, saying, I agree. Wells grabs the mike from Fitz. Now all three are switching the mike, shurgging, trying to figure out what happens wiht the last 4 who made it in the potential jury pool. Fitz is gesticulating with his hands. Fitz also has a habit of putting his chin in his hand.
Jeffress says they're now all totally confused.
24c(4) each side is entitled to the number of additional preemptory challenges. The big issue is that the two per side challenge for prospective challenges MUST be from jurors who are designated to be in a alternate pool.
Walton is disagreeing with Jeffress, Wells, and Fitzgerald.
What BOTH teams are trying to do is understand who the potential alternates are, so they can calculate whom they should use their strikes on, knowing who else might be left in the panel. So they want to know, of all the 36 juror, who might be alternates, so they know who the potential alternates are and can strike accordingly.
Wells sent Jeffress to sit down, and is now explaining what he understood, based on their experience and what they thought he was doing. Wells is saying that their questioning at the end was influenced by what he was doing. He's saying that they assumed that the potential jurors 29-36 would be only considered ALTERNATES. So they didn't question as closely for the most recent potential jurors. (Wells suggests they would have asked further questions of the more recent people if he had known how Walton would do this.) No wonder voir dire went so quickly this morning.
Walton is saying that was not his intention and that he's never done that. "I've never seen it done that way."
Jeffress, now that I understand, those four (the last four), in that case, you're fully in compliance with the rule. Jeffress and Wells need to go back and re-strategize their approach. So we're going to take some time and figure out who will be in the potential jury pool. (Cue the Jeopardy music!)
Everyone breaking until 3:30, so the Defense team can strategize strikes again.
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FITZ!
Fitz
Jane
emptywheel
all rise …..
Ahhh, that was damn lucky.
Were you thinking that he definitely was or was not going to testify?
Must’ve been shooting spitballs when we covered that in class.
time for a little ben harper ….
Shouldn’t there be bodies in the jury box picture now?
Ben Harper
T- @
4
I’d be surprised if he didn’t. They spent MONTHS doing CIPA review with the underlying premise that he would testify (that is, the whole CIPA process assumed he would testify). So if I were Walton and Libby didn’t testify, I’d be a little miffed about the waste of my time.
Don’t know how many people here also read My Left Wing, but I just found out that Maryscott O’Connor has been in the hospital for a week.
Geez, you guys aren’t going to let me get any work done today, are you?
neokneme @ 6
Umm, I’d prefer people rather than bodies. The undead should be depicted at the defense table, not in the jury box.
A false statement is not a lie?
Orwell
Redshift @ 10
Hell, if I can’t get anything done, than why should you be allowed to?
Redshift @ 11
Not until the end of the day. The lawyers still get to exercise their peremptories.
emptywheel @ 13
Ouch. Nasty!
RenB @ 12
A truth that hasn’t been proven wrong yet.
Rodger EW @ 14.
RenB @ 12
I think this concise statement is the heart of Libbey’s defense.
Emptywheel - Sounds like you are having fun.
Ah, one of the joys of liveblogging — seeing someone’s head explode in real time. :)
On the alleged non-materiality of Libby’s “misrepresentations…er, false statements”: how will they argue that saying you didn’t speak to, or recall speaking to, various reporters about Plame be immaterial to an investigation about who leaked Plame’s identity to reporters? Will they argue because it turned out that Armitage was the original leaker that the truth about Libby’s leaking was irrelevant to the investigation? That’s almost as silly as the “I was too busy to remember something that I was talking about every frikkin’ day to the Vice-President” defense.
litigatormom at 20 — I haven’t yet figured out the strategy on making that plausible for the jury as an argument as yet. Perhaps it will be more of a throw several things at once in terms of raising some deniability and/or doubt and hope that some juror finds it reasonable — the shiny object defense that LHP has discussed in the past?
Team Libby objected to the “natural tendency” phrasing in one of the definitions of materiality, but the objection can’t be analyzed in isolation. Hard to tell whether they’ve lost or gained ground though, without further context of the complete definition. Another phrase that the defense seeks in the definition of materiality is “relates to an important fact.” Parts of Libby’s request seemed, to me, to be asking for a bit too much, so not getting all he asked for isn’t necessarily a loss.
As for the “if he testifies” comment, Hahahahahah! I’m sure that’s routine boilerplate commentary.
Swopa @ 19
I’ve been curious. If Libby’s lawyer’s found potential jurors that approved of Bush and Cheney, would that mean that Fitzgerald should disqualify them?
Finding jurors without strong opinions about this administration is next to impposible. Is this Libby’s way of trying to prove he can’t get a fair trial? Laying the grounds for overturing an unfavorable verdict?
Very weedy legal specifics being discussed now with regard to instructions to the jury prior to the introduction of evidence at trial.
Wells is arguing whether certain clauses should be joined conjunctively or disjunctively (that’s “and” or “or” for those of you who talk English).
Josef Goebbels’ Hairpiece speaks.
Some call him Frank Luntz.
The comments section is priceless.
-GSD
Luntzy is pushing the “can’t we all just get along meme”.
Suck it toupee boy, you have been beating us for 12 years, cover you face and get ready for some blows…..speaking metaphorically, I am.
OT: This looks really bad. (Details of Saturday’s raid on a US/Iraqi compound in Karbala.)
Pachacutec @ 25
I presume this is in response to the time-honored dilemma of whether someone (such as Libby) is a fool or a liar, and Fitz wants to keep open the possibility that he is both?
Proposing some nicknames.
Richard Armitage is now Dick Armpitage.
Scooter Libby is Leaky Lewis Libby.
Judith Miller—Saurons’ courtesan.
Karl Rove–The Presidents’ Prevaricating Propagandist Putz.
-GSD
Thank you for doing this. I am so drooling!
Christy Hardin Smith @
21
Ok, lemme get this straight. He was too busy to remember what he was doing. But then the story busts wide open and he busily tries to keep a lid on it by obstructing justice and sending cryptic mash notes to Judy? It sounds like either he knew what he was doing at the time he did it or the public s#$%storm sharepened his memory enough for him to want to hide the evidence. And if it’s the former, then that’s pretty damn bad. But if it’s the latter, then it’s bad and then some. What am I missing?
News Clues @ 30
Seconded.
OT Re the Warner Resolution on Iraq:
You really have to ask yourself why Warner can’t bring his sorry ass to support the resolution already on the table. Oh wait, I forgot, his ego. Right, never mind. This no doubt explains his macho for the descriptive “augmentation” with all of its breast implant connotations. Escalation is partisan (because it’s Democratic? even though Chuck Hagel a Republican has signed on to it) but augmentation (which Condi first used and has been adopted by the Republicans ) isn’t? Are there no glue factories for old warhorses, and if not, why not?
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/bl.....econd.html
Redshift @ 27
OMG - And isn’t this, afterall what the Libby case is all about… Miller et al.
John Casper @
7
thanks john. maybe pach or donita or trex can cue up ben’s “I’ll Rise” for a post some time. it’s one of the greatest, most noble songs of defiance in the face of oppression i’ve ever heard.
i’ll bet you dollars to donuts that Fitz would dig it…..
I GSD @ 29
WRT Scooter Libby I propose Leaky Lippy!
“….He was too busy to remember what he was doing….”
OT, IIRC, in the period under scrutiny, Scooter has already testified he had a two-hour breakfast with Judy at the St. Regis Hotel, and routinely engaged in “idle gossip” with reporters. That doesn’t sound overworked to me.
Hugh @ 33
escalation is too 1968.
OT: While we’re here chatting, are we still casting the inevitable TV movie? I say that the part of Fitz be played by Michael Moriarty. He’s already got four years experience on Law & Order.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0605363/
Which player is Grossman again? I’ve been watching football all weekend so all I can think of is dah Bears QB.
We’re having a very weedy Rule 24 jury selection intricacies argument ongoing at the moment. The lawyers in the audience will understand what I mean by this — it’s a full out law review-esque minutiae misunderstanding and dissection. But for the non-lawyers in the group, all those geeky, legalese conversations and nitpicky little detail bits and pieces for which everyone gets peeved about being billed for time? That’s what we are doing at the moment. It’s lawyer time.
lina @ 38
This is sounding all to much like Spector on the Constitutional destruction. Putting out a Republican who is “trusted,” they say they will “do the right thing” - and of course, the point is for them not to. I think the whole scenario is to get so many proposals out there that the public (and everyone) is confused about what is being said, and in essence, nothing will be said with any substance. So, in essence the votes won’t matter one way or the other (except we all lose down here).
Redshift @ 27
Chilling, indeed. The force protection issues are what will cause this new effort to fail. The idea is to use the escalation to quarter troops within the city, in defensible places. But there is nowhere in the city a place more defensible than the green zone, or at any of the many mega-bases scattered throughout. When the troops are split into platoon sized elements they become just that much more vulnerable, and to mix them in with Iraqis who can’t be trusted not to turn on them is just another strike on the whole idea. This is why you hear that they want the Kurds to be a part of the mix, because they are less likely to turn their guns against us.
Froomkin is up: From Hero to Goat
Hugh @ 33
Grrr… I sent them this:
For me it’s more interesting to watch the demeanor and manner in which Jeffress and Wells manage their dispute with Walton, and for that matter, Fitz.
Jeffress does more William H. Macy smiling, deferential charm. Wells has a kind of slightly impatient, “can we get to the bottom of this?” tone, and Fitz continues to be more or less dispassionate and businesslike.
“Fitz: “I hate to be a geek about it.” Numbers 33 to 36 could never end up in the juror box, which means 33 to 36 could only be alternates.”
Ahhhh. Maybe that’s why this morning went so fast ….
cboldt @ 22
Its the word “misrepresentation” that’s in question–just a question of consistency among the jury instructions.
I think Warner genuinely wants to add to the pig pile censuring Clusterfuck’s judgement on the “surge”..
If his language is direct enough- and if he can bring a half a dozen MORE goopers on line- then USE it. This is really more a matter of how many goopers sign on than what the damned thing says. Few will read it anyway- the headlines will be “Goopers screw over Clusterfuck on War Strategy”.
melior @ 40
He’s the State Under Secretary who briefed the WH on June 11 or 12 that Plame was involved in sending Wilson. He’ll also testify that Libby asked him for info on Wilson back in May.
emptywheel @ 50
Oh, and he subsequently left government and took up pro football.
Richmond @ 42
That may be (I’ve completely lost respect for Warner over the past year), but I think it’s backfiring. No matter how much the WH and the media try to spin it as opposition in disarray, the picture that’s coming through is that a large majority of the congresspersons and senators are willing to go on the record against the escalation in one form or another.
I called Warner last week because of a suggestion that if he came out against it as a longtime defense expert, it would make it okay for other Republicans to follow. No matter how he tries, I don’t think he can start the ball rolling and make sure it only goes a little way down the hill.
“Bush is described by friends as realistic about his diminished clout but doggedly resolute. ‘As a general matter,’ said a top Republican source who talks with the White House regularly, ‘everyone’s pretty much down in the dumps over there, but trying to take the high ground and begin a serious dialogue with the Democrats to get something accomplished.’
Oh, now someone wants to work together. Well, what if the Democrats decided that they have a mandate and decide to tell you to ’shut the fuck up’ and listen to them for a change?
-GSD
Any truth to the rumor that Speaker Pelosi will wear a Buck Fush t-shirt at the SOTU?
Emptywheel is famous now - nice article on you. :)
OfT IMHO, rather than *uck around with “escalate” vs “augment”, I would like the Democrats to start attacking with the soundbyte that
the Middle East and the worldIraq wasless unstablebetter off with Saddam in charge. It’s a soundbyte imho that would resonate well in the US and throughout the world. It also undercuts the current WH strategy which appears to be that the 3,000 US troops actually died for some purpose beyond the Bush/Cheney ego.Geez, is that’s why Grossman is so damn unreliable?
“Which Grossman will show up today?!?!?!”
Hugh,
GrandmaJ had a take on Warner’s move with a rather loud ring of truth to it
the good news if GrandmaJ is right, poor widdle Mitch McConnell doesn’t have the votes for filibuster
and the only person to play Fitz is John Cusack
The fact that Warner is trying to use weasel words is immaterial…the fact that he is bucking the Chimp, be it ever so lame, is the real story…….
-GSD
oxide @ 39
i like Liam Neeson as Fitz.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 41
Christy, I know I’ve said this to you before in e-mail, but I wanted to thank you again for your easily understood explanations of this stuff. I very much appreciate it, and you.
-S
following along at home
GSD
Here, Here!!!
OT sorry I lost the link on this one but it is still up at the NYT site:
Hawkish Gates Sees More Force as Leverage by David S. Cloud. In this NYT article, Cloud asserts that Gates is *surprise* a hawk. Well, OK, given his actions in his short time in office and his endorsement of the Bush “surge”, maybe this isn’t a total surprise. However, he spends most of the article writing that Gates’s real agenda is to supply force to increase our country’s diplomatic leverage. Thus are the escalation and that second carrier group in the Persian Gulf explained. There are only three minor quibbles I have with Cloud. First, this Administration doesn’t do diplomacy. Second, Gates is the Secretary of Defense not the Secretary of State. Diplomacy really isn’t the focus of his department. Third and this can be summed up in two words: Condoleezza Rice. If the Bush Administration were actually serious about anything diplomatic would somebody as ineffectual, incompetent, and out of her depth as Rice be our top diplomat?
GSD @ 58
yep.
I imagine we’ll be hearing more about this when it comes time for Libby to appeal. :-/
john goodman with a shaved head as Cheney.
If a resolution is passed dissing Clusterfuck’s surge- and if it has a sizable number of goopers supporting it- then Clusterfuck’s reign of terror is OVER! It will have the effect of a “no confidence” VOTE- and although he will remain in office for two years- he’ll be wearin his nuts in his hand rather than in their former location.
Ah.. time for the requisite pre-Libby Trial and pre-SOTU terrorist alert scare tactic:
“Breaking ABCNews - DOCUMENTS SEIZED IN IRAQ REVEAL INSURGENT PLAN FOR ATTACK IN U.S., ABC NEWS’ PIERRE THOMAS HAS LEARNED”
.. of course.
John Casper @ 55
Exactly, at least Saddam had a phone number.
Bush’s presidency is in free-fall collapse. He goes to the House well tomorrow after a disatrous and deadly weekend in Iraq. With AL Qaeda claiming to have shot down a chopper. With Iraqi troops possibly complicitous in an ambush……The bedrock of the new strategy to embed US troops into larger Iraqi units is looking like suicide to many.
Speaker Pelosi just blitzed her initiatives that were popularly supported by large bipartisan votes.
Bush is left with flaccid, pasty warmongers like George Armstrong McCain and Bloody Bill Kristol as his only real time support….
His numbers are in the 20’s and 30’s.
Rove is reduced to more pathetic gimmicks and political flip-flops and compromises in order to win some support.
Bush now needs the Democrats….suffer you knave, no one likes you anymore.
-GSD
Hows about Dennis Hopper as Cheney?
Swopa @
64
What?! They can’t find an unbiased jury out of the 36 they have even after they’ve removed all of the people who actually have a brain? Sounds to me like they are asking too much.
rwcole @ 66
and bombing Iran.
Amazing… they are paying these guys, how much per hour, and he doesn’t know jury procedure?
lina @ 63
YEP.
bellesouth @ 44
Up indeed!
Pull the plug!
The Enron president is bankrupt. Hasn’t our country had enough?
No electricity from oil while Bush is speaking. The circuit breakers belong to us.
mighty big umbrella ol Senator Hagel opened last week innit ???
. . . meanwhile,, angushed screams of pain emanate from somewhere in the lower recesses of the Senate Office Building as Senators Straightalk and Last Honest Man deuce up on The Bullmoose
lina @ 72
Yeb, bombing Iran, this is what many now are not only suspecting, but also in fear of. Crystol for once has it right (meaning the plans are in).
Per Hugh from the NYTimes:
Hawkish Gates Sees More Force as Leverage
Fresh thread, gang, while we are waiting for proceedings to resume here.
Oops! Sound like Libby’s lawyers made a false assumption about Walton’s intentions regarding the jury pool. Sorry, Scooter, we thought they were just alternates, so we didn’t really make the effort! Maybe Libby should have shelled out for some good ones.
And although I like John Goodman, I think that David Huddleston, who played what I thought was a very Cheneyesque Jeffrey Lebowski (the person who the movie is actually named after) could also do a good job.
John Casper @ 78
Thank you, John.
sorry dahlins’, Richard Dreyfuss has to play Cheney only b/c this guy is no longer with us
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000687/
Col. Kurtz is my choice for Cheney.
As far as the who’s gonna be a juror and who’s gonna be an alternate, the only proper way to do it is to take the 36 potential players, let each side exercise its challenges, and then randomly select four from the remaining pool of 16. Those four become alternates, the others are the official jury.
BC
oxide @
39
Hmmm … I dunno. His voice is all wrong, for one thing, and he’s a bit too … prissy, for another. Or, that is to say, his character on L&O was, and I’m not sure how differently he would play the Fitzter.
Redshift @ 27
That sure has the look of a future false flag operation.
lina @ 65
lina @ 65
PeeWee Herman as Libby
Christy Hardin Smith @ 41
’scuse, Redd.
With all due respect and all, you all are stompin’ in my pasture now. This is a question of randomization procedure … Walton should:
(1) pool the peremptories for jury/alternates;
(2) let Fitz and Wells do their thing.
Then he should randomly select four from the remaining pool to be alternates. Names out of a hat works fine, as long as they are put in the hat in a random order.
BC
Nellieh wrote:
>PeeWee Herman as Libby
Strategerie @ 89
Or Martin Short.
Nellieh @ 90
I got stuck in the toobz the first time around.
You know it’s the role he was born to play — David Spade as Libby. The only actor possibly more annoying could be Al Franken channeling Stuart Smalley as Libby.
“I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.”
-S
What’s happening? Are they back yet?
Blub @
67
If that’s their strategy, it may backfire this time. After all aren’t we “fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them here?” If it turns out we WILL we fighting them over here, then the whole thing collapses even under their screwed up logic.
Bargain Countertenor @ 84
That’s what happened when I was on a civil trial regarding a dispute of a real estate sale. 14 were selected and all had to pay attention. After the closing statements, two were supposedly randomly drawn to be the alternates and were dismissed - one was me. I was suspicious about the randomness of it because the testimony “refreshed” my memory and I had done environmental consulting on the site, which I communicated to the court. And surprise - I was chosen to be an alternate.
choochmac @ 93
Disn’t this happen before where they trotted out months old information?
portia.vz @ 31
Nixon was impeached on the latter.