
When I was growing up, I lived in a college town. The university had a large number of international students from all over the world, and many of them had children with whom I attended school. We had folks from Japan, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Central America, from all over Africa, and from various countries in the middle east.
In the mid-1970s, I noticed an interesting distinction between my classmates from Iran. Some came from families that had fled in the early 70s, as repression under the Shah rose against the followers of the exiled Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Other families had come to study at the university under the auspices of the Shah's government, to study with government scholarships. Once the Shah fell, a third group of Iranians emerged: people connected with the Shah's government who fled the country at the return of Khomeini.
As you might imagine, these three groups didn't have a lot of polite social interaction. On the college campus, they were often present at the same events, but protesting against each other, not celebrating a common heritage or point of view. On the high school campus, it was more subdued, but when we read Romeo and Juliet, it was easy to imagine what would have happened if two kids from families on different sides of the Iranian community fell in love. Shakespeare was walking the halls of our high school.
Which brings me to Cuba.
Right now in south Florida, you've got people who fled the fall of Batista government and Castro's revolution in the 1950s. Many of these were folks with money, property, businesses, etc – and whatever they couldn't take with them (or send out of the country) remained and often was appropriated by the Castro regime. If and when they return, they will likely want their old estates and business back, or restitution for the property that was seized.On the other hand, you also have people who fled since Castro took power, such as the wave that arrived in the US in the 1980 Mariel boatlift. These are not folks who left and tried to take their wealth with them – they had no wealth to take, and were fleeing grinding poverty and what they felt was a hopeless situation. In many ways, these are the exact opposite of the earlier exiles, save for their desire to see Castro's rule come to an end.
Kind of reminds me of my Iranian classmates. Sure, the exiles come from the same country and share a common language, but the other distances that separate them are vast indeed. The distances between them and the folks who never came to the US at all are vaster still.
The end is apparently near for Fidel Castro – or may have already come, or may not come for a while yet. Whatever the reality at the moment, though, most experts are agreed: all kinds of nastiness and craziness is about to be unleashed. Will Raoul, his brother, have the necessary support to rule on his own? Will the military stage a coup? Will another leader emerge from Castro's government, to continue the Communist rule? Will there be a popular uprising, overthrowing the Communist system? And what about the community of Cuban exiles – will they return?
And what will the US do? Over at the State Department, as well as the CIA and the Defense Department, for years they have no doubt been playing out all kinds of scenarios, to see what might happen and what the US might do to influence events when Castro "leaves the scene" (under a variety of circumstances). I keep thinking about my Iranian classmates after the fall of the Shah, and the parallels to Cuba as the end of Castro's rule approaches.
I don't have any particular expertise with regard to Cuba – only a bit of historical perspective that makes me very, very nervous about what is likely to play out. As Marcy Wheeler (among others) has noted, the Neo-Cons have pushed the cause of Cuba for decades, and the prospect of a post-Castro re-shaping of the island nation surely has the Neo-Cons in the Bush administration salivating. Miguel Alvarez wrote an undated piece (2004/5?) entitled "Neoconservatives and US Hegemony" at CubaToday.com, and he rings the changes on the cast of characters and their efforts to exert their imperial influence in Cuba. The names are familiar: John Bolton, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Cambone, Richard Perle, Dick and Lynne Cheney, the Project for a New American Century, Scooter Libby, Don Rumsfeld, Douglas Feith, etc. The efforts include actions we've all ready seen aimed at Iraq: leaning on intelligence officers to get the intelligence that supports their rightwing preconceptions, issuing unsupported – indeed, provably incorrect – accusations of biological weapons programs, etc. Says Alvarez,
To accomplish the mission for which they [the neo-cons] were "elected," they attacked Afghanistan and invaded and occupied Iraq, a task they considered unfinished after the Gulf War in 1991. We might ask if Cuba -against whom they have tried all possible means to change its social system- also falls into the category of unfinished missions.
If Cuba was an "unfinished mission" before Castro was ill, what does his current ill health make it now? Let's see what the National Intelligence Director has to say, shall we?
In a review of global threats last week, National Intelligence Director John Negroponte said that Castro and his brother Raul, who has taken over as Cuba's temporary leader, are trying to create a "soft landing" during the transfer of control.
"From the point of the United States policy, we don't want to see that happen," Negroponte said. "We want to see the prospects for freedom in that country enhanced as a result of the transition" from Fidel Castro.
Nope, no peaceful transition in Cuba if the Neo-cons have anything to say about it. They've done such a nice job with Iraq – I can't wait to see what they've got in mind for Cuba.
Get ready folks: the Max and Moritz gang are about to ride again.



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Peterr!!
Russ!
Nope, no peaceful transition in Cuba if the Neo-cons have anything to say about it. They’ve done such a nice job with Iraq – I can’t wait to see what they’ve got in mind for Cuba.
Maybe they can draft all those anti-Castro Cubans in South Florida. The rest of us would much prefer that we leave Cuba alone. (Actually, the Florida Cubans remind me of the vehemently anti-Communist Vietnamese in SoCal: anyone who doesn’t agree with them is expected to leave or be quiet, and they can’t see that there’s no difference between what they’re doing and what they fled.)
Factor into that the fact that the leaders of the Cuban exiles in Miami aren’t exactly the nicest of people (they’ve been linked to all sorts of violent acts of terror, including blowing up airliners), and I can’t see the Cuban people welcoming them back with open arms, whatever they think of Castro.
The neocons are drooling.
No doubt they will find some way to fuck things up from hell to breakfast.
After all, a leopard can’t change his spots.
They might want to keep an eye out for some influence from Chavez also.
There is also the factor that various European countries have been working with Cuba for 10-15 years now, sometimes behind the scenes and sometimes not. My LMAO scenario would have Castro dying, some entity (presumably the military) creating a government and holding an election – and then applying for EU membership. Thumb right in the eye of the USofA.
That final step is highly unlikely, but my overall point is that the US may be very disappointed when the new Cuba, whatever it may be, turns to Europe rather than Miami for support and trade.
Cranky
Cranky, I think your scenario, where Cuba applies for EU membership, sounds good to me. Certainly better than the living hell the neocons have planned for them.
I have always thought the U.S. was shooting ourselves in the foot re. Cuba. Why is it that we are now pretty chummy friends with Vietnam and China, but we have this everlasting grudge with Cuba? Is the Cuban ex-pat in Florida SO important that it trumps being diplomatic with a country 90 miles off away?
Dumb…
I find the possibility of BushCo taking credit for finally bringing down the Dread Pirate Castro somewhat amusing, in a ludicrous sort of way…And it only took 48 years, an undetermined chunk of the GNP and a U.S. naval base carved out of the island through century-ago force to do it.
Viva la revolution…Now go shopping.
zeppo @ 8
Yes.
Same as Iran.
Never forget, never forgive, and let the anger and hate eat you from the inside out.
And they think the rest of us are crazy.
Timely post, Peterr — Glad you’re taking this on. Castro’s health has been the news a lot and the neos are already circling like vultures. Reminds me of a scene from Zorba the Greek.
the very last thing this country needs is castro to die while bush is president
let’s hope he can hold on for 2 years
As a great philosopher once said:
So Negroponte would like to see things untidier in Cuba? The problem with this is that Cuba is a lot closer to us than Iraq and chaos in Cuba could lead to another mass exodus to South Florida. The real kink in the neocons’ plan is the wave of refugees into a state with a lot of electoral votes.
Hugh @ 13
Oh, cripes. Was just skimming by on the way to urgent Real Life tasks (the ice has melted, praise be! I can leave the house!) — hadn’t even factored in the neo-cons and Castro. But surely, there are no troops, funds, etc. for an adventure in Cuba….right? right?
Sigh.
Hi Jane,
since I heard yesterday, I’ve been trying to come up with the right thing to say. If anyone knows me, I’m a ‘Linker’. That’s just the way I comment. I don’t type fast enough to say what a well placed link can convey with a click. That being said: A Day in the Life
Peace, Love and Light ~ God Bless and Get Well Soon ~ Lou
Another big difference between the first (affluent) to arrive in Miami and the latest (poor), like most of the carribean, skin color.
Don’t beleive for a second that the poor blacks in Cuba would welcome the old (white) Batistianos back to rule them again. Castro wasn’t perfect, but he was a lot better than the plantation owners that were driven out by the revolution.
Somewhat off topic from Raw Story and MSNBC:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0118.html
Over at our blog, The Next Agenda, one of our members made a trip to Cuba after Christmas. It’s an interesting read.
I find it interesting how much the American and Canadian view on Cuba differs. Up here we have not been brought up to think of Castro as something akin to Satan’s brother.
And before everyone tells me how heinous Castro has been, may I point out that we are all struggling with Gitmo, rendition, suspension of habeas corpus in the US etc. It does not stop us from liking many parts of the American system, way of life and people. And for all that many of us have liked previous administrations to a greater or lesser extent, those administrations have also been responsible for some pretty nasty things.
But here is something from NeoCynic’s diary:
The big question will be in the world is whether America will be able to keep its hands off the country long enough for the Cubans to decide where they want to go and how they want to do it post Castro, or if the US will blunder in and create another “success that just hasn’t happened yet”.
GAO Chief: Pentagon Stonewalling Release Of Iraqi Troop Preparedness Data
Hmmmm. Where to begin? Batista was, of course, an unpopular crook. Mainly he was interested in lining his pockets at the expense of the people. Consequently, Cuba was ripe for revolution and Batista’s weathy supporters backed the wrong side.
The U.S. government and the Dulles brothers also backed the wrong side and the CIA spent decades trying to assassinate Castro. But Castro’s regime survived and he is the longest serving leader of our time.
When judging the success or failure of Cuba’s government and economy, the point of comparison should be other Latin American countries. By that measure, Cuba stacks up remarkably well – especially in health care and education.
For all of its problems, in Cuba, you will not find shoeless children living in garbage dumps.
While it is hard to predict how Cuba will handle the passing of Castro, it is relatively safe to predict that the U.S. will do the wrong thing.
Anyone know if Ahmed Chalabi speaks Spanish?
Well, we unleashed ‘freedom’ in Iraq and Palestine, too.
It’s working out so well, too.
I’ve never understood how we could play footsies with the Russians all during the Cold War, and slap Cuba around. Who was the bigger threat?
Lou C—that’s excellent.
darkblack @ 9
Can’t you just see the photo-op? That is, if things weren’t going so horribly for him right now, in my mind’s eye, I see him tromping over to Cuba, probably to stand on Castro’s grave and plant an American flag?
twolf1 @ 20
If there was any good news, Bush et al would be shouting it from the roof tops. So the more likely scenario is that even bending over backwards the reports came up with zilch.
This is unsurprising. As my mantra goes, the Iraqi army lacks command and control, logistics, heavy weapons, discipline, esprit de corps, and an allegiance to the central government. A bunch of guys with rusty AK-47s does not an army make.
Nice post, Peterr. Having lived in South Florida for a number of years, I’m fascinated by the effect our island neighbor to the south has had on us over the years.
But I’d just like to pimp a book on Cuba that’s really very good. Actually, I’m related to the author…
;-)
http://www.ebookmall.com/ebook…..ebooks.htm
mikeysez @
17
That ties in with the observation in the diary that Bionic links to @ 19.
This is what makes this such a powderkeg, and what scares me about the neocons. They are folks who see the world in either/or, binary terms – but the world is a both/and, shades-of-gray kind of place. For most of the neocons, there are simply “pro-Castro Cubans” and “anti-Castro Cubans” with no sense of the distinctions between the folks who fall in the latter group.
The toobz are really clogged . . . hang in there, everyone.
I think post-Castro Cuba has the opportunity to turn out quite well, if America just leaves its grimy hands off it.
Fortunately, I think Cuba’s got a pretty good chance of avoiding the Iraq treatment. During the rest of Bush’s Administration, we won’t have troops to spare for Cuba. And it seems unlikely that Bush’s successor will be interested in military intervention there.
Fidel’s no sweetheart. You don’t keep the mantle of Supreme Leader for nearly a half-century without imprisoning some people for nothing more than a cross word about your regime. But as despots go, there have been many worse in this world. Cuba may be poor, but it’s got a well-educated population. If Raul has the sense to oversee a transition to a social(ist) democracy, the resulting state would probably be a pretty good one in a short while.
One can only hope.
mandrake @
25
Why, it’s just the thing to bump all that nastybad liberal reporting right off the airwaves…”The savior of Cuba mingles with a well-restrained sweaty throng, El Grande Jefe Arbusto, the GTMO grappler… Counterrevolution accomplished, hombres!”
Now all we need are a couple of missing white women and it’s ‘all systems groundhog’ for 2000-do-O-4.
;>)
RT @ 30
Your initial comment in italics is precisely what concerns me.
Look – I’m the father of a five year old. When the Kid asks for a cookie, and I say “just one,” that’s never the end of the conversation. The NeoCons seem to be operating with the same mindset.
For this all to be coming to a head as we approach a presidential election makes it all the more likely, in my book, that we will meddle in some way. Beyond Bush and the current NeoCons in office, all the contenders for the presidency will likewise be trying to calculate how all this plays in the politics of Florida. I fully expect to see craziness, not sanity, from the people running for the White House as they try to enhance the chances of winning in Florida (both in the primaries and the general election) by staking out a “let’s meddle” position on Cuba in an effort to win the Cuban-American vote there.
But I’d love – absolutely love – to be wrong on that last part.
The right to self -determination must be defended by al lovers of liberty. If the US attacks , I know which side i would stand on.
Our apologies to those experiencing a few connection hiccups. The techies are all over it.
darkblack @ 31
Ah, the keen set of the hat, the polish on the medals, the gold braid sparkling nicely on the shoulderboards . . . and the eyes looking slightly off-stage with the proper “Am I sitting up straight, Karl?” look to them.
Priceless!
RT @ 30 -
The other part of your comment – military troops available – needs its own reply from my response at 32.
There are a lot of possible options for intervention that don’t require sending large numbers of US troops. Outfitting some of the more radical anti-Castro groups and sending them is one. Small, carefully targetted military or CIA operations would not be out of the question.
The career folks at State, DOD, and elsewhere who haven’t been drinking the NeoCon KoolAid are likely looking at things like “which policies can we offer to change, if the Cubans are willing to move away from Castro’s legacy?”
But even questions like “Who goes to represent the US at Castro’s funeral?” will be tricky, and will likely depend on the immediate events on the ground in Cuba. Does Bush go, as a sign of respect for the people of a neighboring country? Does he send the special assistant to the deputy undersecretary in the Ministry of Silly Walks, to underscore how little he thinks of Castro? Something in between?
Peterr @ 35
Don’t forget the slightly-off angle on the cap!
P J Evans @ 37
It’s just so… jaunty
Be still, Chris Matthews’ beating heart
;>)
Peterr @ 35
Beautiful!
Peterr @
32
Their problem (and the saving grace for everyone else), as I see it, is that their options are incredibly limited.
The Army and the Marines are tied up half a world away. I suppose the Navy could send a carrier group down to motor around Cuba, but for what purpose exactly?
Cuba doesn’t have WMDs. We don’t have any facilities there to protect, outside of Gitmo of course, but if Fidel hasn’t tried to take over Gitmo, neither will Raul.
Unless Cuba experiences a total breakdown of civil order, any attempt on Bush’s part to order troops down there would meet with shock and horror from most Americans. Nobody wants one more war, and in the case of Cuba, there’s no – absolutely no – argument for their being a threat. No GOP Presidential candidate, and very few Congressional candidates, would urge the White House to intervene in Cuba to win the election. Quite the opposite.
If we had the nerve to put boots on the ground in Cuba, it would go even worse for us than in Iraq. Cuba’s got both cities and mountains, and an army that’s capable of putting up a decent opposition to whatever we can still send their way. A military intervention in Cuba would be horrible. It also might mark the collapse of the GOP as a major party.
Sheer speculation, but I’d say that the US military folks stationed at Gitmo are probably looking both inside at their detainees and also at the folks on the outside of the fence.
Peterr @
36
We tried the ’send in the anti-Castro troops’ option once already, a long time ago. Should it work any better now?
The Special Forces are, I expect, mostly tied down in Afghanistan and Iraq. Maybe a CIA operation would be possible, but I doubt their ability to intervene effectively.
I think these things, as interventions, don’t really do anything but make the Cubans mad, and more determined than ever to shun our advice.
True, but that’s just diplomacy. Goes on all the time, and nobody has to make a deal that they don’t like.
Hell, the Cubans don’t have to allow a U.S. representative into the country for Castro’s funeral.
RT @ 40
Agreed, insofar as we’re talking about major military intervention. But BushCo’s ability to screw up goes far beyond military meddling. Political backing of the wrong group/leader (can you say “Chalabi”?), saying something incredibly stupid at precisely the wrong time (Remember the post-9/11 “crusade” remarks?), etc.
Given the current reputation of the US, thanks to the mess the NeoCons have made of Iraq, if anything goes wrong in Cuba, you can bet that the US will be blamed for it – whether we are responsible or not.
Thank God John Bolton is gone from the UN! It’s a small blessing, but I’ll take what I can right now.
Republican Cuban policy : we won’t even see you until you give the whorehouses back to our Mafia.
Peterr @
43
It’s hard to screw up something that’s not yours and that you can’t steal.
The Bushies could screw up this country because they were running it. They could screw up Iraq because they invaded it. They could screw up support for the U.S. in the Muslim world because you can always make yourself look bad in other people’s eyes.
Our backing of Chalabi in Iraq mattered because we were running Iraq. But we’re not running Cuba, nor will we be. Any party there that we back, will have less support than it would have otherwise. Which is fine, because the Bushies will back the wrong people. If we say things to make the Cubans unhappy with us, they’ll be more determined not to let Uncle Sugar tell them what to do, even if we bring a big pot of money to the table.
And any saber-rattling will make us look like big, dumb bullies in the eyes of both the Cubans and the world.
RT @ 44
Agreed – and when has BushCo ever NOT rattled their sabers?
Back when Castro first got sick, it came out that the State Department was “making plans” for the transition. Wrote about it then. Can’t say I trust any “plans” from this lot, especially as the “plans” are all to likely to be determined by a desire to cater to a small, but vital, sector of the GOP Florida electorate.
If the Cubans are lucky, their country will become a Venezuelan stronghold rather than a U.S. one. I’d take Chavez over Bush anyday. Wouldn’t you?
janinsanfran @ 46
I was an intern at the German desk of the State Department before the Berlin Wall fell. There were always contingency plans for various “what if” situations. Some were drawn up by the career folks and others by the political appointees. At that time, the differences between the two groups were nothing like they are today.
Between the tubes being screwed up around here today, as well as the Libby jury selection live blogging by Pach, the discussion here was slow and went in fits and starts. It won’t be the last time that this topic comes up, though, as both the NeoCons and Castro are still with us.
Meanwhile, Taylor Marsh is up with a new thread. Thanks, all!
Peterrm, we haven’t forgotten Max und Moritz! Danke.
The old folx in Miami/Hialeah might dream of returning to Cuba, but they won’t be welcome (surprise!). The younger generation(s) are pretty much Americanized and from my rather extensive contacts with them over 22 years of living there, they do not anticipate going to Cuba as more than tourists. As for US military intervention, one should not forget that Cuba maintains a pretty effective military herself. There will be no more “Bay of Pigs” attempt consisting of exiles, as few of the younger generation has any interest, and the older generation is, well, too old.
While working the Mariel Boat Lift back in the 80’s I recall one of my friends from Miami telling me that he grew up in Cuba, but did not recall seeing so many black people there (remember, the white elites all migrated to Miami in the early ’60’s). These elites were very far removed from the vast majority of the Cuban population. Well, there aren’t anymore white elites in Cuba, and the population is now more black than ever.
No, the Miami exile community will not be welcomed back.
As if the centuries of fighting to keep from being a pawn of empires weren’t enough, more bad news: now they have found oil.
news.bbc.com
We’d best prepare to prevent this war now.
“Arrest The Police State!”
Ronzoni Rigatoni @
52
Right on.
Raul and the party are solidly in command. There probably will be a some relaxing of control if the distaff side – I think it is Raul who has a well educated thirtish or so daughter who has his ear – has its way. Contrary to popular belief in this country, Fidel is pretty much loved despite his failings. Any attempt at military action would more likely than not result in Bay of Pigs II.
“Fidel scoffed at the notion – promoted by Secretary of State Henry Kissinger — that the Soviets had dictated the Angola intervention. ‘As our troops left on the refitted commercial planes for Luanda, my brother Raul took off for Moscow to inform the Soviets and ask for their help in providing military equipment.’
The Cuban troops stopped both invasions. Angola celebrated her independence in November 1975 and then got bogged down in a bloody civil war against UNITA, led by Jonas Savimba and financed by the CIA. The crucial battles, however, took place in 1987-88 at Cuito Cuanavale, in southern Angola.
The former diplomat evinced pride in the way Cuban and Angolan forces delivered devastating losses to the apartheid South African army.
Vidal agreed that these battles and not the supposedly brilliant diplomacy of State Department Africa specialist Chester Crocker convinced South Africa to abandon the strategy of maintaining puppet governments in her surrounding states. The military losses were too great. So, Namibia became independent, Angolan sovereignty was sustained and Nelson Mandela emerged from prison to become President. At his inaugural in May 1994, he whispered audibly in Fidel’s ear so that the TV microphones picked it up: ‘You made this possible.’
This glorious past in which Cubans changed the history of southern Africa had faded quickly after the fall of the Soviet Union. Mandela noted Cuba’s role in changing South Africa’s destiny. The fall of the Soviet Union changed Cuba’s trajectory.”
But not before the Cubans kicked the hell out of the U.S.’s proxies in Africa.
http://counterpunch.org/landau01162007.html
Ronzoni Rigatoni @
52
Right on.
Raul and the party are solidly in command. If Fidel dies, the transition will largely be orderly, and in fact, there may be an easing of control if the distaff side – I think it is Raul who has a thirtyish, well educated daughter who has his ear and who is more liberal – has its way.
Despite his failings,the bulk of Cubans know their child survival rate is the envy of all, including us, that they have medical care and education – and Fidel is largely loved, notwithstanding years of our propaganda and the virulent Miami Cuban right wing. I believe any military action would more likely than not result in a Bay of Pigs II finale.
“With a map (which said US Department of Defense), Fidel showed Moyers where Holden Roberto’s CIA-backed forces had moved and where the South African and mercenary army were heading. ‘Neto telephoned me and asked for military help. I conferred with my comrades on the Politburo and all agreed we should do it if possible. I also called (Prime Minister) Michael Manley in Jamaica, who also supported the move and offered Jamaica as a landing place. But that would not help us. Jamaica is very close to Cuba. Then, with Manley’s support, I called Forbes Burnham (PM of Guyana) and he offered us landing rights.’
Fidel scoffed at the notion – promoted by Secretary of State Henry Kissinger — that the Soviets had dictated the Angola intervention. ‘As our troops left on the refitted commercial planes for Luanda, my brother Raul took off for Moscow to inform the Soviets and ask for their help in providing military equipment.’
The Cuban troops stopped both invasions. Angola celebrated her independence in November 1975 and then got bogged down in a bloody civil war against UNITA, led by Jonas Savimba and financed by the CIA. The crucial battles, however, took place in 1987-88 at Cuito Cuanavale, in southern Angola.
The former diplomat evinced pride in the way Cuban and Angolan forces delivered devastating losses to the apartheid South African army.
Vidal agreed that these battles and not the supposedly brilliant diplomacy of State Department Africa specialist Chester Crocker convinced South Africa to abandon the strategy of maintaining puppet governments in her surrounding states. The military losses were too great. So, Namibia became independent, Angolan sovereignty was sustained and Nelson Mandela emerged from prison to become President. At his inaugural in May 1994, he whispered audibly in Fidel’s ear so that the TV microphones picked it up: ‘You made this possible.’
This glorious past in which Cubans changed the history of southern Africa had faded quickly after the fall of the Soviet Union. Mandela noted Cuba’s role in changing South Africa’s destiny. The fall of the Soviet Union changed Cuba’s trajectory.”
But not before Cuban soldiers had kicked the U.S.’s proxies’ butt. The Cuban army is for real.
Jesus B. Ochoa and John Eaton are correct. I just spent 3 weeks in Cuba travelling the countryside. The people of Cuba do not want the US to interfere. They are educated and strong. They can handle any inevitable political & economic changes. And they will be more likely to look to the EU and Latin America for help.
Just butt out. It is a beautiful island with fine people.
Can anyone answer a simple question for me? Since we have had a decades-long boycott on Cuba, why do we have a military base there?
If any one is interested, I have an exposition of the way the Cuban political system works. It is readable, IF longish, but was done by a prof in a South Carolina Presbyterian college and is pretty simple and interesting if you are into civics at all. It certainly is better done than the tight-assed CIA report on the link here. What is the word limit? Is anyone interested?
zeppo @
8
It’s been good politics for some people that always like to have a boogieman handy.
Dumb…