
Just a few unrelated stories from Monday/Tuesday about how things are going in the Middle East:
First, Secretary of State Rice, is promoting the idea that the Israelis and Palestinians should start to hold discussions that might lead to peace in the region. After all, it's been a long time:
Ms. Rice was pressed on Monday to cite any cause for optimism in resolving an Israeli-Palestinian dispute that has defied both Republican and Democratic administrations — and at a time when the region is roiled with conflict.
“Before we say that this is going to end in frustration, let’s be glad that after six years and a long time that the parties want to engage in an informal set of discussions about the future between them,” Ms. Rice said.
Let's see, that six years would be about the same length of time as . . .
Birth pangs? Remember how the Bush Administration went out of its way last year to encourage the Israelis not only to continue their incursion into Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah but to expand the war right on into Syria? When the Lebanese leaders and the rest of the world were pleading for a ceasefire, we kept stalling at the UN. In explaining why a premature ceasefire was not a good idea, Condi Rice called this policy the "birth pangs" of a new Middle East. Well, maybe there were some in the Administration who were more interested in aborting some other efforts between the Israelis and Syrians.
According to an Iraeli newspaper, Haaretz, it seems that for a couple of years, up until the summer of 2006, individuals from Syria and Israel were engaged in secret but comprehensive peace discussions. They produced a document that went into fine detail about how to resolve all the issues between the two countires. Those discussion of course ended with the incursion into Lebanon, spurred on by the US, and would seem to have little chance of revival under the Bush policy of openly confronting Iran and Syria.
Now, however, the Israeli Prime Minister is denying that anyone in his government was "involved" in the discussions, suggesting that any discussion that might have occurred would have been by individuals acting without authority or knowledge of the government. The Syrians are also denying any authorized discussions took place.
Whatever the facts, what I find fascinating is how quickly authorities on all sides are dismissing the possibility that the Syrians and Israelis ought to be talking to each other. How embarrassing. And I wonder who in the US government knew?
UPDATE: Curiouser and curiouser: A follow up story in Haaretz now reports that senior US officials, including VP Dick Cheney, were closely tracking these discussions. (h/t to angie and Crazy Horse for finding the link.)
What does a nightmare look like? The United Nations released a study, based on reports from Iraq hospitals and morgues, that indicate that about 34,000 Iraqis were killed last year through sectarian violence and related causes. Iraq has a population of about 27 million people. In US terms, with roughly 11 times the population as Iraq, that's the equivalent of 375,000 American deaths — in one year. Previous Iraqi estimates were "only" about 12,000 Iraqi killings last year, and there have been studies estimating much higher figures. Meanwhile, the slaughter continues, with another 100 or so Iraqis killed in varioius bombing and shooting incidents on Tuesday.
You can't make this up. Only a few days after the Iraqis shocked the world with their handling of Saddam Hussein's execution, it seems the execution of his two co-defendants also, as the NYT delicately phrased it, "went awry." By now you've seen the stories about how the Shiite Government's executioners managed to literally rip the head off Saddam's half-brother during his hanging. The incident appears to be "breathing new life" into Saddam's old Baathist movement. Outraged Sunnis are now vowing revenge; revengeful Shiites are celebrating. If, like Joe Lieberman, you thought our Iraq policy is on track because we're backing the "moderate" democratic elements against the extremist supporters of the Iranian axis of evil, you might have to revise your opinion — or if you're Joe Lieberman, I guess you don't have to revise your opinion because inconvenient facts don't matter.
Some may be relieved to know that this engineering error would likely not happen if the US were in charge of the execution. It seems we have a manual for how to hang people "properly," drafted in the Eisenhower era. From the NYT:
An Internet search for manuals on hanging suggested that Mr. Ibrahim was the victim of an overestimate by his executioners. One of the most authoritative manuals, the United States Army’s “Procedure for Military Executions,” issued under the authority of Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower when he was Army chief of staff in 1947, gave a chart that recommended that a man of about Mr. Ibrahim’s weight, about 185 pounds, would need a “drop” of five feet seven inches — nearly two and a half feet less than the drop for Mr. Ibrahim — to assure what the manual called “a proper execution.”
The manual added: “A medical officer should be consulted to determine whether any factors, such as age, health or muscular condition, will affect the amount of drop necessary for a proper execution.”
I suppose it's reassuring that someone actually thinks about these things.
Finally, does he ever get it? I leave the President himself to cap off the hanging story. In a interview with Jim Lehrer on News Hour Tuesday night, George W. Bush, who took his country to war and keeps it in war as much for pride and to one-up his father as for any other rationale he's given, made the following statements without the slightest sense of irony or self awareness:
I was disappointed and felt like they fumbled the — particularly the Saddam Hussein execution.
It basically says to people, "Look, you conducted a trial and gave Saddam justice that he didn't give to others. But then, when it came to execute him, it looked like it was kind of a revenge killing."
It makes it harder for me to make the case to the American people that this is a government that does want to unify the country and move forward. And it just goes to show that this is a government that has still got some maturation to do.
*sigh*



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0
JANE! FITZ! – I can’t believe it, I even stopped to read half of this extraordinary post before I thought I should peak below to see how many had scrawled on the wall paper before I came. Now back up to finish reading.
Congratulations, Richmond!
Four GI’s killed today in Iraq.
Scarecrow!
Morning all — rushing around a bit here. Let me grab some coffee and I’ll be back in a jiffy…
(OMG, I just said “jiffy”…)
Coffee!
phew! the tubes were slow this morning! now to read!
OldCoastie @ 7
yeah, i had trouble getting on for about fifteen minutes starting at about 8:30 eastern
Peace
Healing
Love
it continues to amaze me how everything these guy touch just turns to shit.
Watched a bit of CPAN WJ this am. Dem from Miss.Armed Services Comm. Solid.
Hearing today Kagan will ‘testify’. Wonder if they’ll ask his area of experise PhD? Bastard might know the area is ‘cradle of civilisation’ from freshman ancient history. His PhD is Napolean/Russian military history.
That’s the guy to thank for the ’surge’.
—–
From Amb. Willson’s NYT OpED:
“The act of war is the last option of a democracy, taken when there is a grave threat to our national security.”
Today, the WH is the grave threat to nat’l sec.
——
And I haven’t chimed in with the very best wishes for Jane. Others say it better than I could. Fitzmas is bittersweet. I can say that I posted comment elsewhere totally off the cuff about the current and possible future MidEast. It was a nice series of pointed outraged questions. Which I don’t think I would have had in me before coming here. I thank Jane for creating this ’space’.
Gonzales: Judges unfit to rule on terror policy
what can I say? evil, evil, evil
Israeli Head Of Military Quits After War Critique
Is anyone else having connection issues this morning, or is it just me?
…paging Mr. Stevens. Mr. Stevens, would you please remove your truck off the toobz?
pokey, pokey slow, Redd….
OldCoastie @ 12
I can say “Impeach, impeach, impeach.”
The [John] Dean Doctrine.
Much is made these days about similarities between the Iraq and Vietnam wars. Yes, there are some links, but there are also key differences that are even more telling.
Similarities:
1. U.S. colonial/empire expansion invasion
2. Huge local opposition brings our army to brink of defeat
3. Ideology & threats to “our” way of life figures centrally (threat of Communism/China vs Islam)
4. U.S. citizens oppose the war efforts long before President and MSM
Differences
1. In Vietnam, we had no broadbased & hugely funded Asian advocacy group (China, Vietnam, Japan etc) pressing for our continued military engagement lobbying pro-war with Congress, with MSM, with the U.S. population as a whole
2. There was no major oil (or other evident major financial) stake in the Vietnam
conflagration
3. There was no major internal dispute (civil war) in Vietnam, that had the potential to spread much further in the region
4. No one in Vietnam would have even dared to suggest that nuclear weapons would be used (as now contemplated for the imminent Iran invasion)
5. There was no broad based and essentiall institutionalized torturing involved by the Americans
6. American civil liberties were not curtailed through actual law changes by the Congress and administration during Vietnam
7. U.S. citizens were far better off financially in the 60s during Vietnam, and taxes were assessed to pay for the costs
8. U.S. leadership (President, advisors & Congress) was notably less corrupt, generally more astute, and less psychologically damaged (Bush II’s epic Freudian conflict with Bush I.
The differences in some ways say it all. And make this current situation, far more serious and damaging to this country in the short and long term.
Scarecrow, you asked above who in the US gov knew about the Syrian – Israeli secret talks. sorry no cite or link, but i read this AM it was cheney, directly.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
…not just you.
yup, Blank – Gonzales needs to go now – RIGHT now.
‘Morning, FirePups! Busy day here, will miss all the fun here at the Lake. But I do get to see Marcy this afternoon, will probably get the lowdown on the Libby trial from her.
OldCoastie — we should be doing some pushback on that speech by Gonzales; perhaps some well-deserved words about “activist attorneys general” and their unConstitutional overreach from the Executive Branch into the Judiciary. Especially given the slow-moving “Saturday Night Massacre” under way.
We really do need the “Massacre” to saturate MSM; during Nixon’s administration, the Saturday Night Massacre was one of the several tipping points that sealed Nixon’s fate. But the media did its job in those days; we have to do it for them now.
Sitting here waiting for my coffee to be ready. It would be a long time as apparently I hadn’t put it on yet :o
Awake! alert! ready to fly!
Hm. 0 for 3 here.
Nate could use some spare change over at getintheirface.
I don’t think they’re gonna let me on the plane with my face this swollen from crying.
((((((((((Jane))))))))))
Good morning everyone. It appears that FDL is loading very slowly this a.m.
All of us here want to express our thanks to the hundreds of commenters, including many
lurkersvalued readers who left prayers and good wishes for Jane. I’m certain she’s reading all of them, just soaking in the good vibes. Amazing outpouring of love from this community. Thanks to all.OldCoastie @
12
Some remarks by Gonzales in the article linked above.
I would hope that the timing and tone of his remarks aren’t intended to influence the public impression of issues that will be examined in the Libby trial.
OK – gotta go to work now… if anyone wants to post a comment over at Jeralyn’s (I can get Talk Left, but of course, fdl is banned by our filter) or at Taylor’s place… and let me know what the Fitz update is, I’d sure appreciate it…
it’s a long, long day waiting for Fitz news….
Crazy Horse @ 19
Crazy Horse — your mission . . . That’s an important fact to nail down.
stwolf1 @ 13
Saw that too. Both Isr*el and U.S. are currently under the sway of very corrupt leaders. Then again (tin foil hat time) I wonder if this General also was less than keen on the imminent Iran invasion. Cleaning out the opposition so to speak.
I bet PeppermintPatti is out of surgery by now this morning. Best of luck to you – and hopes for a very speedy, uneventful recovery with a large measure of success.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
Molasses.
Shorter Gonzales: judges shouldn’t make, you know, judgements.
Mornin’ Firedogs!
toobz extremely slow this am (22 deg. again)
well, there is this – and I suspect the story is much more widespread on ‘Arab street’
crosses fingers, hits ’submit’
http://www.arabtimesonline.com…..&cat=a
federal judges not up to the demands of the job as gonzales sees it;
u.s. attorneys seem to have become a liability since they keep investigating corrupt
republicans and their dealings;
iraqi hangmen who mess up;
israelis and syrians who actually might have spoken with other — gotta stop THAT.
yknow, i’m beginning to see that the view from the bush white house is “CAN’T ANYBODY HERE DO THEIR JOB?”
good thing we’ve got a unitary executive. whew.
On the tubing problems here. Unfortunately don’t have any draino left to pour over my computer to clean the pipes from this end. If someone at FDL home base could try from that end, maybe the enzymes will eat their way through the sludge which is slowing the system down so it reaches us outliers. Alternatively, maybe something like Actifed would work, or a couple of double expressos poured directly into the computer earphone hole. ;-/
FYI, the fabu tech genius is on the case — poor guy, I had to call and wake him up this morning with slow site problems. Thanks, John — you are a PEACH!
Scooter a Black Panther, who knew?
“Both fans and critics of Libby might be surprised by some anecdotes from Yale, where Libby graduated in 1972. Fellow students recall his helping silkscreen T-shirts proclaiming “solidarity” between Yalies and the Black Panthers and going with shoulder-length blond hair and in a leather jacket to help at an anti-Vietnam War demonstration.” more
yea, John! looks like the draino worked!
toobz are zipping right along now! yay!
egregious @ 30
me too. I also kick it when I forget to turn the coffeemaker on. Dry those eyes with hope, but it might not help the swelling.
warm thoughts to all
As Barbara Boxer might phrase the question to Condi, “What would you know about birth pangs?”
Had a very hard time getting this site, 3 tries and report to apple. Now to refresh comments, I’m getting ERROR! connect problem with server. try again. Well I tried again, same message. Will try to send this.
New thread: Pachacutec live blogging from the court house. Toobz still clogged, so go easy till it’s clear.
I second your *sigh* since, after reading your post, words fail.
Oh, my innertubes are slow this a.m. also.
new thread
Help!
I’m clicking on twolf1’s link, and getting “Object Not Found” – same thing when I go to the main FDL page and click the link for the new thread there.
scarecrow
you might find the recent Stratfor report,
Rhetoric and Reality: The View from Iran
of interest.
You can sign up for free email subscriptions to their reports or email me if you would like this ione forwarded.
I find Stratfor a good source of analysis.
I do not always (or even often) agree with their conclusions, but they are generally well reasoned and interesting.
One of these fine days I won’t have to hear anything that Bush or Hillary have to say about anything.
Sen. Clinton calls for troop cap in Iraq 51 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – The United States should cap the number of troops in Iraq, while increasing American forces in Afghanistan, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said Wednesday
Clinton, the expected front-runner for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination, was quick to seize the spotlight the day after Illinois Sen. Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) took a major step toward entering the race.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..linton2008
Scarecrow @ 27
here it is:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/814534.html
oh and from the interview with Lehrer, this caused me some particular horror:
paging Humpty Dumpty…
oh yeah, then he LIED about Casey and the escalation, too.
*sigh*
angie @ 49 — Thanks so much for finding the source. I went back through my history for two days and couldn’t find it (not that i didn’t have real world tasks.)
i’m relieved to find i can still trust my memory. But now we have the upshot, that while Bush refuses to talk with syria, and encourages Israel to expand their attack, Cheney is monitoring secret peace talks.
Crazy Horse @ 51
you’re welcome– I remember ET citing it yesterday and my outrage/BS meter is threatening to bust!
I trust the Israeli government as much as I trust our government. Both governments are brutal liars.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
Matter of fact, yes. I get bad connections often enough that I just assumed the problem was Earthlink until I read this.
Der Shrubbenfuhrer bloviates:
This from the man who openly mocked a death row inmate’s plea for leniency in a magazine interview. If that’s “maturation,” then I’m a pumpkin.
I just don’t see what purpose the death penalty serves if not revenge, or maybe a scapegoating outlet for emotional tension. It’s not a deterrent; the stats tell us that. Anybody who checks a freshman psychology textbook should be able to see that it isn’t punishment in any meaningful sense. The only purposes it seems to fulfill are to make one person dead and a bunch of others self-righteous about the deed.
EvilDrPuma — you forgot to add the irony of the moaning over a revenge killing from an adult who whined, “And he tried to shoot mah daddy!”
Disgusting.
For Jane: add this to your to-do list when you are up and at ‘em. ;-)
Skype launches P2P television.
Imagine it: FireDogLakeTV.
Jane Hamsher, Creator and Producer.
I can see it already, cannot wait!!
And “Late Night FDL-TV with TRex” in living color? Stand back and watch out!!
Little George has always had a terrible temper. And he hates to lose. He was the kind of kid who, if you were playing 2 out of 3 and he lost 2–he would throw a tantrum until you made it 3 out of 5. And so on. Indefinitely.
In lieu of character, maybe Little George is relying on his inner brat to prop himself up now that things are getting really tough.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..38833.html
Secretary of State Rice is the worst Secretary of State ever. She matches nicely with Bush who is the worst President ever. I’d say that both of their legacies are secure.
It’s a Hil of a surprise, Barack
Obama White House bid puts pressure on Clinton to take up the challenge
Superstar political rookie Sen. Barack Obama announced yesterday that he is running for President – sending Sen. Hillary Clinton’s brain trust scrambling to put her still-undeclared campaign on fast-forward mode.
http://www.nydailynews.com/fro…..2165c.html
Jane,
Just delurking to send my well wishes. I’m so sorry you’re having to battle cancer. You’ll be in my daily thoughts. Hope you have a speedy recovery.
Marilyn
And Israel announces expansion of illegal settlements. Finally with enough pressure even “so called” liberal websites like “Raw Story” are finally linking stories on the continued expansion of illegal west bank settlements. Which we know the msm barely touches,,,but let’s be honest…the so called liberal websites barely touch this very serious issue.
Ever go to the INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY website and read documents and letters sent (fo 30 years) from nations in the middle east and demand that Israel sign the NON-PROLIFERATION TREATY. “Israel’s capabilities and threat to Peace in the Middle East” at the IAEA website.
Let’s see, that six years would be about the same length of time as . . .
Six years, she says? That’d be about the same length of time since we the U.S. had any peaceful discussions.
The Israeli/Syrian deal would have been a sweet deal for Israel: In exchange for the Golan Heights, Israel would have retained all water rights to the Jordan and other sources in the Heights (which accounts for 30% of the country’s water), Syria would have withdrawn support from Hizbullah and Hamas (ideally leading to their eventual disarmament) and disassociate itself from Iran (no longer being a port of entry to arms for Hamas and Hizbullah), and the area between Syria and Israel would have been a DMZ between the two countries (to ensure Syria did not use the Heights to renew aggression against Israel)
The most immediate responses were that Sharon opposed such a deal and Israel would never surrender one inch of ground of Greater Israel.
It appears the Russian Rightwingniks have taken over (led by a guy named Lieberman of all things) and they are taking an extreme hardline view which cannot be sustained over the longterm.