
During a trial, the lawyers for each side present evidence to prove their version of what happened. There is some confusion in the public mind about what constitutes “evidence,” so I thought I would hit on some of the bigger categories of evidence and tell you a few rules about how that evidence may be admitted into a trial and limitiations on it’s use.
This post, and Part II to come, are BY NO MEANS EXHAUSTIVE OR CONCLUSIVE on the topic (that would take a 6 credit, two semester course), but is meant to be rough guide to some things that might come up during Fitzmas and might otherwise be confusing.
First and Foremost: Testimony is Evidence
One of my favorite things, and I heard this come out of opposing counsel’s mouth in a deposition the other day when a witness testified that a certain event had occurred and this lawyer, who was either being disingenuous or has never read the Federal Rules of Evidence, said “Yes, but what evidence do you have that [the event] occurred?” and I thought to myself, “You wanker, his testimony is evidence.”
Naturally, I noted my objection for the record.
It is a cheap stunt meant to intimidate the witness and make them doubt their own testimony. Bullshit tactics like that really frost me and lower the tone of the entire process. They are basically unfair questions.
So, today we are going to start with SOME of the Federal Rules of Evidence as they pertain to witnesses. (Except for Hearsay and its exceptions which will be its own separate post — I think Hearsay is going to be a big issue in this case.)
Generally, under Rule 601, “every person is competent to be a witness, except as otherwise provided in these rules.” You don’t have to be a citizen, don’t have to be in this country legally, don’t have to be eligible to vote, can be a convicted felon, etc. etc.
However, under Rule 602, you are only competent to testify as matters upon which you have personal knowledge. As a practical matter, that’s not always how courts rule. Many times they allow a witness to testify as to the witness’s belief.
When I prep a witness to testify, I explain the difference between knowledge and belief thusly: You KNOW what you have learned from your five senses, everything else you think you “know” is merely a dearly held belief. For example, if I walk outside and raindrops fall on me and I feel them, if I see the raindrops, if I hear them land on surfaces, if I smell the rain smell, if I open my mouth and taste the drop on my tongue, by each or any of these ways, I “know” it is raining. However, if I am in a windowless room and I see people entering this room wearing wet raincoats and shaking off umbrellas and talking about how it is pouring outside, I may verily believe it to be raining, but I don’t actually “know” that it is raining.
It may seem like hairsplitting to you, but it is actually hugely important in determining whether a witness’s testimony as to a given “fact” is actually competent.
Under Rule 701, a lay witness, that is a regular fact witness, may not give testimony in the form of opinion except in those circumstances where the testimony is “(a) rationally based on the perception of the witness, (b) helpful to a clear understanding of the witness’s testimony or the determination of the fact at issue, and (c) not based on scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge…”.
Courts have held that a lay witness can testify that a person appeared drunk, if they testified to the things they saw or heard, etc., that lead the witness to that belief. Such as, “I saw the defendant consume 5 glasses of scotch within a two hour period during the Christmas party, I saw him try to grope his boss’s secretary while his boss was scowling, I heard his speech slurred, I saw him weave when he walked, and he appeared drunk to me.”
Here are some other examples: Lay persons who are not handwriting experts are nonetheless permitted to ID handwriting if they have first testified to sufficient familiarity with the handwriting in question to make it likely that the testimony is probative. Lay witnesses have also been permitted to give opinion testimony that, based on laying out a foundation of things seen, heard, etc., the person they are testifying about was angry, sad, or similar things which obviously they cannot “know” because who among us can read another’s mind? (I meant that to a legal certainty. Littleprop regularly freaks me, and others, out with her ability to tell what others are thinking. Courts do not yet recognize my offspring’s psychic powers as competent testimony. So, any readers with similar psychic abilities, please understand, I’m not dissing you .)
Expert testimony is a special category of testimony. We know that Irving wanted to introduce expert testimony for his “memory defense” and was turned down by Judge Walton. This is interesting in that Judge Walton essentially found that memory issues of the sort Irving is complaining of are common enough to qualify for the kind of lay opinion testimony described above.
Anyway, Rule 702 governs testimony by experts and says that if “scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge will assist the trier of fact to understand the evidence or determine a fact in issue,” then you can use an expert to educate the jury (almost like testimony = a tutorial on a narrow subject) or to render an opinion. Originally, long, long ago, experts were limited to the tutorial role, but later the law and practice evolved to allow them to render opinions. My belief based on the lines of case law I have read, is that this evolved to speed up trials, otherwise known as judicial economy. That’s one humble lawyer’s opinion, others may differ.
Under Rule 702, the witness may offer an opinion IF the following criteria are met: “(1) the testimony is based upon sufficient facts and data {in other words you can’t make shit up just because you have a Ph.D.}, (2) the testimony is the product of reliable principles and methods, {no junk science} and (3) the witness has applied the principles and methods reliably to the case. This last is where the memory expert Irving wanted to use seemed to go astray if I interpret the public reports correctly.
An expert may not give an opinion that determines the ultimate issue in the case, consequently, Team Irving would not be permitted to offer an expert to testify that Scooter is incapable of lying and therefore could not legally have committed the crime charged.
Usually, you also cannot offer expert opinion on a question of law, the idea being that the judge is the law expert in the room, but there are exceptions to that especially with arcane minutiae of law. A friend of mine testified as an Election Law expert in a federal civil rights case that caused the judge to rule that the way NYS selects its candidates for state Supreme Court judge is unconstitutional. Experts are allowed to offer opinions based upon a hypothetical set of facts posed by the questioner.
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Fitz!
Fitzer!
Fitzest! And Looseheadprop!
Hotflash — you are cracking me up! ;-)
Would it be considered evidence that Cheney was lying, if someone testified he was moving his lips?
WHAT!?? Nobody told ME this!! Eight-plus years of graduate school, and NOW you tell me I can’t just make shit up? Crap. I wasted the best part of a decade! Well, at least it was the 80’s.
Trials and investigations!
Welcome back Christy. The Lake just wasn’t the same w/o you
I understand that Cheney will testify via video tape for Libby- couldn’t Fitz have insisted that he appear in person? Shouldn’t he have? Is it live video? Anyone know?
I continue to feel that Fitz is way too considerate of the special problems of criminals in the White House.
lhp at 7 — Thanks much — but you guys did such an awesome job subbing for me, I never had to worry for a minute. :) It is awfully nice to be home, though. Am trying to figure out my trial coverage schedule in and around what The Peanut needs…not an easy task, let me tell you. (Think the journalists in the media room would mind a cute 3 year old tagging along if she colors quietly? *g* Yeah, I thought so, too…)
rw at 8 — that’s pretty standard practice when you have security considerations at the level that you would need to have them for Cheney to testify in person. The Judge makes that determination as to what is appropriate, not Fitz — so whatever beef you have would be with Judge Walton, because his decision on that would have likely been made on motion from Cheney’s counsel or his office, or from the Secret Service on their behalf.
My guess is that they will do the testimony via videotape with both sides asking questions until the issues are exhausted. I can’t imagine them doing live video testimony, just because tech glitches could wreak havoc on the court schedule (and you plan for worst case scenario on stuff like this because, unlike the Bush Administration, court personnel are smart enough to know that the worst case generally happens when pressure is high). I haven’t seen an order on Cheney’s testimony as yet — but then I just got home again yesterday evening — if anyone has a link or a copy to the order, please share if you would.
old gold at 5 — Well, that would be evidence that I’d consider good — but I think the Federal Rules of Evidence require more than the psychic hunch (as LHP makes clear above…lol).
note to mod - margins on the home page are busted
[Mod Note; thanks for the heads up. Refresh your screen and it should be fixed. FWIW,we’re blaming Scooter.]
Thank you for your post, and for keeping all of us infomed. I can’t help myself, though. I have a request . . .
Except for Hearsay and it’s exceptions which will be it’s own separate post
Please take out those possessive apostrophes. Please?
rwcole @ 8
I think that comes from the entirely natural urge to watch the sucker squirm. Apart from that, is the witness in videotaped testimony allowed to have counsel advising him during the testimony
Redd–Thanks- and welcome home!
lhp,
What a pleasure, for this non-lawyer, to read such clear, concise non-jargonny explanations of legal issues. Props to you and Christy both.
hitchhiker at 14 — Got them. Thanks — that’s what I get for doing a quick copyedit while also giving The Peanut a bath this morning. Ooops…really appreciate the heads up.
rwcole @ 8
NO! Fitz is being considerate of the public veiwing from the gallery. I have been to evetns where presidents and ex-presidents are present. Everyone has to presubmit background info and you must have a particular letter or other document that they send to you in order to be atmitted (plus photo ID on the day).
This would mean either that only those with W/H press passes (they are pre-vetted) would be in the room, or that memebers of the public would have to somehow get prescreened a week or two before.
It would be impossible to just have memebers of the public who show up on the day int the courtroom.
This is being done for the convenience of the publlic a (and the courthouse security folks) not for the conveneince of the WH.
The WH would probabaly LOVE LOVE LOVE a big distracting hullaballoo
This reminds me of Robert Heinlein’s concept of the “Fair Witness”, which I always thought was interesting. Example: the question “is that house blue?” could only be answered in the affirmative if the Fair Witness had viewed it from all sides, otherwise the answer might be something like “the south and east sides of that house are blue”. The “Fair Witness” was a trained professional impartial/objective observer whose testimony was indisputable.
hitchhiker @ 13
I can’t, but the mods may be able to
hitchhiker @
14
Your honor, I saw the typos, I read the fine legal analysis, I caught the subtle snark, but I didn’t actually see the fingers on the keyboard. Nevertheless, in my lay opinion, I believe that this is indeed the work of looseheadprop.
And it’s damn good work, IMHO.
Did I get that right, LHProf?
another great, informative post - thanks lhp.
(minor type: EXAUSTIVE is missing an “h”)
EPU’d:
punaise @ 123
Helpless Dancer @ 14
Only to the same extent as a witness on the stand, to consult re: matters of privledge.
Attorney/client privledge
Doctor/patient privledge
Spousal privledge
etc
Oh yeah, and the fifth ammendment privledge agaisnt self incrimination. Hee hee
Dumb question: What does FWIW mean?
Oh Fitzmas Glee
Oh Fitzmas Glee
Are targets rearranging?
Peterr @ 21
Fell over laughing. That’s perfect!
ccmask @ 25
For what it’s worth
Ah, thanks lhp.
1,406 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen looseheadprop and the Firepup Patriots:
Since this case is about perjury, obstruction and conspiracy and the actions alleged are rhetorical as opposed to physical, it seems that the rules of evidence and the restrictions on hearsay make the mountain Fits hasta climb VERY steep indeed. I am concerned that witnesses like Judy Miller who have shown a genetic predisposition to shade the truth will be able to testify that Scooter didn’t say something and Fitz will be hamstrung to disprove a negative. What will Fitz’s strategy be with regard to Ms. Miller, will he hafta impeach her credibility by exposin’ previous untruths in deposition or Grand Jury statements or is he limited to tryin’ ta undermine the logic of her testimony based on context?
I’m afraid that even Fitz is gunna have a hard time discrediting the “she says he didn’t say that they said…” bullshit that’s gunna get dropped on the jury by these lyin’ bastards.
KEEP THE FAITH, IF THE LAW DON’T GET ‘EM GOD IS STILL WAITIN FOR ‘EM!!!
LHP -
Could you please clarify what you meant to say in the excerpt from the next to last paragraph of your post from which I quoted? Thank you very much for your help.
is it asking too much for Rule 707 to be something really funny?
looseheadprop @ 24
Or executive privledge. If Cheney exerts executive privledge is that a trial stopper(at until appealed)or can the judge compel a response?
TESTIMONY IS EVIDENCE!
Thank you!!!
You are so right about the misconceptions people have about this. I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen even educated people who don’t know this. “I was there when he did it… I know I don’t have any evidence, but I saw it… I wish I’d videotaped it…”
People will say something like that, and I have to tell them, “Testify! Your testimony IS evidence!”
It seems the public–even the educated ones–think that “evidence” has to be something that is contained in a sealed bag or a sealed manila envelope. Testimony IS evidence!
NorskeFlamethrower @ 29
If Judy Miller contradicts her prior testimony, Fitz can offer that tstimony to impeah her. He can also at that time, move to have her declared a hostile witness at which point he can ask her cross axamination type questions instead of the apen ended questions (not suggetsing their own answer) that are normally required on direct examinaiton.
She would be insane to testify contrary to her original testimony. Go back and read the excerpt from Marcy’s book a couple of threads back. It exactly frames this for you
rwcole @
9
it’s Memo-wrecks.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 30
I can testify that I saw you stab Santa Claus with a bowie knife sixteen time. I can testify that I saw him immediatley fall to the ground. I can testify that right after he fell that I felt his pulse and he didin’t have one.
I cannot competently testify that you are guilty of murder. That is the ultimate issue in the case and only the trier of fact made determine that
punaise @ 32
There is no Rule 707. I should work on that. I have a colleague on the Federal Rules advisory committee. He could have some fun with that*g*
Sing we now of Fitzmas,
Fitzmas, sing we now.
Scooter’s in the dock now,
Finally we hear the truth.
Cheney sings for Fitzmas,
one step to impeach.
The Shrub becomes the Fitz log,
burning bright at last.
Helpless Dancer @ 33
Zig alert.
Except, he is testifying voluntarily. Why volunteer and then clam up? It’s all very odd
AirportCat @
6
I say, you should go for it anyway. Most of us can’t tell the difference
:-)
Thanks for the educational. informative post
re: potential mean-spirited rotund wintness
If character is testified to as a comparison of one to similar others, is that opinion considered genuine/valid if the witness is otherwise regarded a “lyin’ sack o’ shit”?
looseheadprop @
37
“An expert may not give an opinion give an opinion…”
Which is it?
[Mod Note; thanks SPCPA, the expert now gives only one opinion.]
looseheadprop @ 40
This brings up another question. How often are strategic moves made in witness choices that would affect other cases by establishing testimony or precedent?
If a VP wants to establish the authority to claim executive privelege, wouldn’t this be a good way to do it?
Hehe…the fun is just beginning:
Did you take Santa’s pulse before you saw him stabbed?
Uh, no.
Can you prove that he was alive before he was stabbed?
Well, he was moving around and breathing, and the like.
Did you hold a mirror to check if it fogged as he exhaled?
No sir.
Are you telling the court that you are just assuming he was breathing?
I guess so.
Did you know that zombies do not breathe?
Err..
Might Santa be one of the Undead?
I’m sure he is dead, now.
Are you sure he wasn’t dead before?
I’m a bit confused, now that you mention it.
As much as it hurts to say this - and it does flat out hurt - the VP is not on trial. The Spec. Counsel is a part of the Exec Branch and the VP is nominal second, actual prime, of that Branch right now. The VP is not a well beloved figure and is a security risk. The VP’s position is one that requires respect, not just from the lawyers involved but from the court - which is dealing with the #2 guy of a co-equal branch of govt.
Of course accomodations will be made and they should be made. The fact that someone truly despicable is the VP doesn’t mean that the fundamental aspects of protecting the VP from harm and respecting the co-equal branches and their highest representatives, or respecting a superior officer within the branch that the Spec Couns is serving — those things don’t drop off the priority list just bc the VP is Cheney.
It would be nice, but it would be wrong.
looseheadprop @ 38
There’s been considerable repositioning reported on (pending) Rule 69
rumi @ 41
Character testimnoy is allowed in fed court but is usally of limited utilty to the defense(except in the sentencing hearing). You can have witnesses testify that a person is patient and kind and good etc. It does not negate the likelyhood that he had the requisit mens rea (culpable state of mind) to do the crime.
Actually in this case, I expect to see character and habit evidence used as sword rather than a shield. I expect Fitx will try to introduce all the streel trap mind and Scooter writes everything down in notebooks testimony.
rumi @ 43
No, this would be the dumbest way to try. The best way to do it would be to refuse to respond to a subpeona
rumi @ 47
not to be confused with the yin-yang rule.
Thanks for the tutorial. Very helpful in understanding the coverage of the trial.
jeffreyw @ 45
My point exactly!
LHP - thanks for your informative posts - they are treasures!
Just a little nitpick - since ‘privilege’ is a word that will be used a lot in our discussions, I wish the word would get spelled correctly (except for the inevitable typos to which we are all prone (-: ). I have seen several commenters using the word, and with three different spellings - none of which were the correct one - LOL!
Sorry - just another prof here who has corrected too many papers and theses. )-:
A little off-topic. The Las Vegas Sun is reporting that the Bushies are pitching out the US Attorney for Nevada.
No explanation, and no apparent indication of wrongdoing.
looseheadprop @ 49
That might be too broad to be useful as a basis in the future.
I was thinking of possibly establishing the ability to pick and choose what is answered under oath based on specific uses of various privelege. That would be a handy superpower to have.
lhp…We’re learning so much from you here. Thank you, thank you.
looseheadprop-39
Just to screw things up? I get the impression that this administration is trying to run the clock out. Cheney is taking a considerable risk just by agreeing to appear. I hope his arrogance might lead him to say something that truly hurts. If he can be goaded into something truly revealing, it could collapse what little remains of the bush legacy
I share your pleasure that someone may actually be held to account for what was done to Valerie Plame Wilson, and I understand why you are angry about this matter, both on its own merits and as a symbol of all of the abuse of power that has been carried out by the authoritarian bullies in this administration. But calling Libby “Irving” doesn’t sit well with me. It reminds me too much of how annoyed I am when Republicans refer to the “Democrat Party” etc.
KathieinMN @
53
Oops - “none of which *was* ….”
(she says, nitpicking her own self)
So, we are expecting what for six weeks, exactly? Scooter has already said his piece under oath before the grand jury, so Fitz has to get someone or several someones to contradict him and back it up to a.) the satisfaction of the jury (facts) and b.) Judge Walton (law), is this right? Many of the others have already given testimony under oath.
So, if anyone changes their testimony now, they perjure themselves. Also, many of these folks have made public statements, all the newspaper guys and many of the public figures, so even if they are not perjuring themselves, they will be loosing credibilty if they contradict themselves.
Also, if Cheney backs Scooter up, then either both are right or both are perjurers or the veep is very good at walking a tightrope that he can’t see.
Where will the surprises come from, do you think?. How much will come from testimony that is already ‘in the can’ that we don’t yet know and how much will be new testimony?
What confuses me is that if Fitz has enough evidence to prove perjury already, and I’m pretty sure he must since this case is huge and he is careful, why do we still need a trial?
Is there an ace up Scooter’s sleeve, eg, Cheney will retroactively declare Scooter’s actions legal because he said so? That will make it Judge Walton’s decision as to whether or not the law was broken, do I have that right?
Or is it all a bluff about the evidence and we are waiting for someone to blink?
montag @ 54
Isn’t this like the third such case? Do we need to get this spotlighted?
OT, via atrios:
front page of the Miami Herald says “Bush’s Version of Iraq Ignores Facts”
KathieinMN @ 53
Bless you. AS you may have noticed, I can’t spell for shit. Strangely one of my sisters was a DailyNews citywide spelling bee champ. It is hard to believe she and I come from the same gene pool!
Helpless Dancer @ 56
Cheney’s been around the block a few times, and he’s testified in front of juries before (when he was in the midst of some of the court cases in which Halliburton was involved).
Given his continued public assertions of things which are demonstrably not true, he’s either a pathological liar or he can bring himself to a very convincing level of certainty. Either way, a jury may find him credible. It’s up to the prosecution to show inconsistencies in his testimony to break down that impression of credibility.
But, don’t expect Toad-In-The-Hole to be an easy nut to crack. Just because he may be even more wacko than Bush doesn’t mean he’s not clever. And, he’s going to be coached by Libby’s lawyers until the routine is down pat.
Fitzpatrick’s got his work cut out for him.
montag @ 54
This is getting weirder and weirder. There is also a lot of chatter going around that DOJ has not been funding new payroll at the USAO’s at their notmal levels. So, they are understaffed. Something similar happened at NYC DOI which used to have about 800 employees and is now down to a rumored 200. That’s one way to avoid embarassing public corruption revelations.
There was also a thing a couple weeks ago about the (Interior Secretary?) cabinet official who was trying to force her agencies IG to outsource his audits to firms picked by her.
This is unprecendented. They seem to be dismantling the whole freakin system!
HotFlash at 60
Because a trial is where you present all the evidence that you have amassed
egregious @ 61
Yes and Yes
link
Several fired U.S. Attorneys are mentioned in this article. Lam of CA, Iglesias of NM, Cummins of Arkansas.
Margot @ 68
Shoule we ask who’s next?
HotFlash @ 3
Your redundance is boring zzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!
small typo - When I prep a witness to testify, I explain the difference between knowledge and belief thusly: You KNOW what you have learned from you*r* five senses –add ‘r’ to you
[Mod Note; thanks, twolf. Corrected.]
montag @ 64
I heard a story around Foley Square, way back when Fitz inteviewed the President and Cheney at the WH. Supposedly, voices were raised and the shouting could be heard down the hall. The rumor’s originator, who was defenately in a position to know this fact, refused to ID the voices.
However, given PatFitz’s well deserved reputation for patience and sweet tempered demeanor, who do we supposed was the likely loud mouth? Hmmm.
Could it be a guy with so little self control nor respect for his own surroundings that he told a sitting senator to go fuck himself right on the Senate floor?
That’s my guess anyway.
Maybe Fitz willnot have such a tough time after all?
JF @ 69
Yes we should. And we should wonder what is tying all these together? And then we should spotlight till our fingers break.
looseheadprop @ 64
The news article mentions short staffing in the Las Vegas article.
The Interior Department deal is all of a piece with Rummy demanding that his own picks for legal staff be used by the DoD IG’s office.
I’ve said it before, so I’m probably sounding like an old record, but my sense of them, from the start, is that they figured they had eight years to undo seventy years of post-New Deal anti-cronyism, pro-populist government infrastructure and they’ve been at this task all along, whether it’s been reported or not.
They really do want to take government back to the Gilded Age, when Mark Hanna (Rove’s idol) was handing out cash on the Senate Floor, and government worked for the fatcats.
That said, I don’t know what’s up in Nevada–it could be that some of the stuff that came up late in the governor’s race was being investigated by the US Attorney’s office, because the local police were clearly politically compromised. Or, it could be something about which we know nothing yet.
JF,
Might well be Ohio.
wlgriffi @ 70
There is no redundancy. I am in no way in a catagory with Pat Fitzgerald. He is a catagory all his own. I’m just vying for JimComey’s job as president for life of the Pat Fitzgerald fan club. You know, in case Comey ever decides to let someone else have a term
When Leon Jaworski indicted the Watergate conspirators, I remember that Nixon was named an “unindicted co-conspirator.” My question is twofold: 1)Why 2) Does a VP get the same type of consideration.
Mary @
46
I agree with you in theory, but not in practice. The simple solution to the problem goes back to the old saying: If you can’t bring the mountain to Mohammed, then bring Mohammed to the mountain. Why not just have a field trip and take the whole trial (judge, jury, lawyers, and defendant) to a location of Cheney’s choice? Hell, they can do it right before the State of the Union address as far as I’m concerned.
twolf1 @ 71
So little time, so many typos.
That is one of my most frequent b/c spell check doesn’t pick it up.
Drives me nuts
If Cheney has to answer REAL questions he will blow it (ala Ken Lay), this personality type has never been asked a real question that they couldn’t jus lie to. The cognitive dissonance might cause aneurisms (or manifest itself as diversionary explosions in Iran! Yikes).
Margot @ 75
Isn’t Fitz still a US Attnorney?
looseheadprop @ 66
This same crew did something special with their “evidence” in the newsmedia too. They placed (claimed) evidence in one source and then referred back to it by other sources as verification. I see them doing the trial to establish legal claims for reference later.
JF @ 69
Don’t forget the one named Black in 2004 that was at the start of the Abramoff investigation. It might not fall under the PA2 act but he was demoted as he started to file requests for records/subpeonas
montag @ 74
You know something else that just occured to me? All USAO’s have to send statistical reports down to DOJ. Not just on overal investigations and prosecutions, but also by catagory and “return on investment” type analysis of specific initiatives. Like productiviy reports.
If you slah the staff levels in an office, there are fewer folks to do the cases and productivity goes down. Then you have an excuse to get rid of someone b/c they are not meeting last year’s numbers.
Circular logic? Yes. Way to created a smokescreen to fire anyone anytime and make them feel intimidated? yes
Never forget, Ambassador Wilson said that part of the motivation for outing Valerie was as warning to others who were trying to do the right thing as government employees instead of going along to get along.
Do we see a pattern here?
looseheadprop @ 71
Well, Bush has quite a temper, too, so maybe they were both tag-teaming the hired help. :)
If that is the case, Fitzgerald (I’ll get the name right, eventually :) ) will know how to pull that out, if necessary, if he’s already been through it once already.
Still, I think about Cheney in front of the cameras, and he’s very low-key, very self-assured and nearly unflappable. Like Bush, he’s got a public face and a private one that are very much at odds with each other, I think.
One way or another, it’s going to be interesting. :)
looseheadprop @ 72
I don’t think Cheney’s going to have a screaming shit fit on the stand, but I do think that Fitz will be able to make him visibly squirm. This is a man who is no longer used to having his authority questioned. A man who once told a sitting Senator to go fuck himself. A man who shot someone in the face and then hid from the media for several days. (Which, by the way, would seem to be “fair game” as a topic for assessing a witness’s credibility.) I think he’ll be able to hold it together for an hour or two, but Fitz will make him look awful by the end of it.
JF,
Yes, Fitz is still a U.S. Attorney. Rats.
I was thinking that it’s tied in to what dirty pols have been convicted and that many of them gave heavily to re-elect the president.
You may have heard of the rare coin investment scam in Ohio, where state officials invested workman’s comp money in rare coins, rare stamps, and the like. Stole money, too. Tom Noe went to prison for this.link