
Yesterday, I introduced you to the book, “Opening Statements”, and it seemed worthwhile flipping further through the yellowing pages of the copy I pulled off the shelf.
Quoting Al Julien again:
In no branch of law is the opening statement of greater consequence than in the defense of criminal cases. Nowhere is it more neglected. And a strong opening is especially important where it is anticipated that the defendant himself will not take the stand. The opening in such a case presents an opportunity for limited substitute testimony, running no danger of cross examination.
Now, I have never delivered an opening for the defense in a criminal case, the only criminal defendants my partner and I are willing to represent are cooperators. However, I have certainly heard more than my fair share of them. There are several classic criminal openings (kind of like famous opening moves in chess) and a good defense lawyer will pick from them like a Chinese food menu, putting together a tasty meal for his client.
Of course, said defense lawyer would prefer that we all believe these brilliant gambits sprung fresh and new from his own mind rather than being recycled chestnuts, but I thought you all would like a peek behind the curtain.
First of all, even more than with the prosecution’s opening, the defense Opening Statement anticipates the summation. Although it used to be considered rude to interrupt opposing counsel during opening or summation, many good defense openings will draw the objection from the prosecution that “the defense is summing up”.
The emotional tone of a defense opening is very different from the prosecution. The prosecution’s opening should demonstrate that the prosecutor is a neutral party representing only the people of the United States and the rule of law. The prosecution’s tone may tinge on the sorrowful, like a parent disappointed in a wayward child.
The defense however, especially in white collar cases, often seems to have only one emotional speed: Seemingly sputtering (but actually quite eloquent) indignation. Shorter version, “how dare the prosecution even suspect a man like my client, a man of position, a man of good reputation, a man who enjoys the trust of the rich and powerful, of, of , of……anything!”
The implied message, conveyed in body language and tone, is what nerve this prosecutor, this lowly civil servant, has (he must be jealous of my client’s high status) to even cast his eyes in my client’s direction. "My client is innocent and the prosecution has no facts, only his class bias and goody-two-shoes standard of right and wrong that comes from working in an ivory tower like a US Attorney’s Office and living on a budget his whole life. He doesn’t understand that the rules are different on Mt. Olympus where my client works and lives.”
When SDNY under Giuliani did the series of Wall Street cases, you heard this over and over. It was hilarious. “The rules are different”, “the pressures are different”, “unless you have lived it you can’t understand.” Watch for it folks.
The defense has several ways to attack during the opening. Here are some of the greatest hits:
"The defense is going above and beyond what it is required to do." This is a nice theme to set up on opening. For instance, though it is a rare defense lawyer that has the guts to forgo opening at the earliest possible moment because he does not want the prosecution to have a clear path to winning over the hearts and minds of the jury, they like to turn their eagerness to open early into an advantage, rather than a show of fear. "As the judge (or prosecution) has already told you, I have no obligation to address you at this early stage in the trial and may sit in my chair and force the government to offer proof as to each element of his case before I lift a finger to show why the government is wrong. Instead, I am eager to address you at the earliest moment because my client has been fighting for two years now to tell you what really happened and how the prosecution has accused the wrong man."
See what a great guy the defense lawyer is? He is not going to leave the jury on tenderhooks, wondering and speculating about his defense. Even though he just contradicted the part where he said the prosecution couldn’t prove its case. But hey, hypocrisy is not a valid objection in court.
"My client didn’t say what the transcript (confession) says he said." This is a classic normally used with cases where the defendant has given a written or taped confession. The first thing that defense does is claim that the defendant was not in his best state of mind when he gave the confession. Normally this takes the form of claiming coercion, in Irving’s case it takes the form of the “memory defense”. The second is to claim that the government should have known this because the confession itself is internally inconsistent and therefore demonstrates that the defendant didn’t know what he was saying. The third is to claim that the confession does not fit with the other “hard” evidence in the case and therefore should be ignored. In the case of a perjury case of this kind where the statement contradicts the other known facts, the defense is going to do a twist on this by going back to the “wrong man” theory we had at the beginning.
It is about here in the opening that the defense will likely claim that this is really a case of Team Fitz mishandling the case and failing to investigate other persons suspected of the crime. Why? Because every defense opening includes this accusation. It’s SOP. We know that the defense will say that this case is really about outing a spy and that Armitage is the guilty man. (WRONG! THIS CASE is about lying to the Grand Jury, to the FBI, and about obstruction of justice. . . . Ooops, sorry for the digression.)
"We will investigate this together." The defense lawyer, having accused the prosecution of botching the investigation and having brought the wrong man to the dock, now enlists the aide of the jurors in solving, not the crime in the indictment, but solving the mystery of how the prosecution screwed up so badly.
This was used to tremendous effect during the OJ Simpson trial. The murderer was not on trial, the police and prosecutors were. This is also a great way to get the jurors on “your side.” Petit (trial) jurors are often frustrated because they cannot ask questions and are often left wondering about many things that are never explained. They know that the prosecution’s job is to lay things out for them. By asking the jurors to help with the investigation, the defense transforms the jurors from passive onlookers to active participants. Suddenly any question left unanswered, no matter how irrelevant, is reason to suspect the prosecution has fouled up.
"I am not a criminal defense lawyer therefore my client is not a criminal." This is a favorite among white collar and public corruption cases. Sometimes you will see the defense lawyer deny who he is 3 times before the cock crows. Most white collar defense lawyers also do some commercial or corporate work, because you need to know commercial and corporate law in order to defend these kinds of cases. So the defense lawyer will introduce himself as coming from a firm that does primarily corporate or commercial practice, thereby implying that his client doesn’t even know or consort with the kinds of lawyers who do criminal cases. It is also useful for inoculation purposes if the defense lawyer makes a calculated decision to breach the Rules of Evidence or Criminal Procedure and the prosecution’s objection is sustained by the judge. The defense lawyer apologizes for his unfamiliarity or rustiness with these rules and draws sympathy for his client rather than outrage at his cheating.
Undermining the prosecution’s witnesses. I suspect this will receive prominent play in the Libby trial. Each of the government’s witness can expect to be attacked on credibility. This does not always take the form of calling them a liar. It may be an attack on their good faith recollection. Yes, lots of folks will be said to have misremembered before this trial is over. There may be attacks on the witness’s motivation either to lie or to remember things the way the witness wishes it to have been. There may be suggestions that some of the government’s witnesses ought to be the person on trial rather than the defendant. All standard stuff, heard every day in criminal courts all over the U.S.
Where will Irving sit? A last thought about opening day; while this is not strictly part of the Opening Statement, it will be a visual part of the opening and perhaps the rest of the trial. The positioning of the defendant in the courtroom is a critical element of the defense strategy. If the defendant is slimy or scummy looking, you try to position him as far away from the jury as possible and put a big lawyer or paralegal in front of him to block the jury’s view. If, however, your client is respectable looking and the jury already knows he is himself a lawyer, you put him in between two members of the trial team and let him keep busy making notes.
It makes him look earnest and studious and enforces the idea of the team working together to figure out how the prosecution screwed up so badly –you know that team that the defense want to recruit the jury to? This also helps the defendant avoid showing annoyance or pique on his face. Sometimes, if the defendant comes off as cold, they will reposition him in the first row of the gallery, sitting with his family, maybe holding hands with his loving wife.
Before I went to law school, I worked as a litigation paralegal for a white shoe NY firm to see if I really wanted to enter the practice of law. Anyway, we had this breach of contract case. Our client was the most gorgeous blond god of a man you ever saw. Problem was, he was way pissed off that he had to sue to get what was rightfully his and kept scowling at the defense. My job in that trial was to sit in the front row of the gallery with him (they kicked him off the plaintiff’s table after the first day) and make him keep a poker face. I brought in a book of Irish history from home for him to read because the binding looked like a law book. We played countless games of hangman on a yellow legal pad because it looked like we were comparing notes. Periodically, I would just resort to pinching him as hard as I could while whispering “look benign, goddamit.”
It worked, we won. We ran into some jurors by the elevators afterwards all of whom thought I was his wife and all of whom complimented us on what a lovely couple we made and how much sweeter we seemed than the cranky man who was the defendant. Shorter version = Body language throughout the trial counts SOOOOO much.



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FITZ!
Having Fitz? Five days to go!
A tasty meal, indeed.
looseheadprop! (love your handle)
OFF TOPIC – Is anyone having a problem emailing their senator via the senate site? I can’t get past the opening page. (Maybe so many of us are trying to contact our senator that we’re overloading the site!)
Dee
Great stuff LHP. Every day I am amazed at the depth you and the crew provide here. Thanks much.
Good overview, especially about the non-verbal part of the opening to the trial. As I was reading about your paralegal experience, I kept thinking of Jack Abramoff. I’m guessing that Irving’s attorneys will not be asking Abramoff for advice on what to wear to court. The oft-replayed photo of Abramoff’s outfit looked right out of the Sopranos – not good if you want to convey an impression that you aren’t guilty of anything.
Thanks, LHP.
Do you know if the transcripts of FitzMas are going to go up on the web anywhere?
BC
IMHO, the more Team Irving tries to use “the rules are different” defense you laid out above, the more dangerous a game they are playing, and it makes that section of a possible Fitz opening that I tried my hand at the other day look even better than I thought.
By saying “the rules are different, you can’t possibly understand unless you’ve been there,” Team Irving creates distance between their client and the jury. Not a good thing, when you’re looking for sympathy. On the other hand, by stressing that the rules are the same for everyone, and that Irving lied to “good decent ordinary jurors like yourselves,” Fitz puts the jurors in opposition to Irving right off the bat.
lhp,
forgive me, forgive me, forgive me
but this proved too O/T tempting :
http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2007…..mmmmm.html
Very good tips LHP.
Stocked up on popcorn yet?
After WSJ’s fluff piece, Bloomberg weighs in on
Cheney…
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..p;refer=us
Nice post, lhp. For some reason, it reminds of Kobe. Not the dog, but Bryant.
Also, I love that the guest bloggers always seem to raise the bar a little for when the regulars get back from Hilton Head. *g*
LHP . . . Ya gotta know all your hard work and time is greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
This is a wonderful series and a great idea for the build up for the big show.
Double thumbs up . . . .
re Fitz opening: another aspect is to tell jurors to concentrate on the fact that this case is about lying to the GJ, not about outing Plame, and why kicking the shit out of perjurers is vital to finding out the real facts. So Fitz, too, can enlist the jury in joining up to find the real truth, which works out nicely because everyone knows bloody well that the big culprit is Cheney, who is about the least popular guy in the US right now. Fitz can even say that once Libby is convicted that brings the truth a lot closer because Libby’s cooperation will be a factor in sentencing discussions.
LHP,
Thanks for a great post and update on the
trial…
So, what are the odds at Vegas?
If Team Libby loses will they immediately
appeal and how long will that take?
Jack
Has Walton discriminated against reporters, allowing only two.
One from the Right and the other from the left?
Bet AP’s Matt P and Reuters get the seats?
Hope it’s not the capitalist tool, WSJ…
Jack
While LHP’s been schooling us on process this week, Marcy’s been going over the known evidence and filings to date to bring people up to speed. Her latest post at Next Hurrah is about the obstruction of justice charge, and in it she speculates:
I don’t want to sidetrack things and get into the details of Marcy’s speculation, but it raises an interesting point regarding opening statements. How much do you want to preview by saying “watch for this witness to say . . .”, when do you want to hold something back to make it that much more powerful when the witness actually says it, and how do you choose between them?
It’s a question of framing the trial vs. the powerful impact of surprise. I would imagine that a good opening does the former in such a way as to leave room for the latter – but that’s also got to be a hard combination to pull off.
The odds?
http://www.concurringopinions……lea_1.html
Look at this link. Front page of MSNBC Politics.
Huge picture of Joe Lieberman. Title:
“Bush’s Best Democratic Buddy”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032553/
I agree with everything except the “Democratic” part.
This is an eye-opening essay for me. Thanks so much for posting it. If should be given to prospective jurors to read during the seemingly endless waiting around period.
Thank you, looseheadprop, for an instructive peek behind the curtain. I will refer back to this essay when the opening statements happen.
WASHINGTON – Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and two other lawmakers are headed to Iraq this weekend as Congress engages in fierce debate over President Bush’s plan to send 21,500 more troops to salvage the U.S. effort there.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/…..12-ON.html
O/T- According to Tim Grieve at Salon.com,
Again, paraphrasing Lewis Lapham, “the world is a place with but two inhabitants. It is a place where Bush the Actor need only please Bush the Audience.”
_
*xyz @ 20
Someone with better research skills than I could link RGJoe’s $20,000,000 re-election fundage donors to corrupt Katrina contractors.
So when Gates says the President has to take the longer view in
making these Presidential decisions of war policy we the American
people see through it. It is the Neocon strategic plan of sowing
complete chaos in the Middle East. It is so obvious that Iran is next.
So we turn against the Shite militias now in Iraq full bore so that
when Israel or U.S. takes out the nuclear sites there we hope to
contain the Iraqi Shite backlash. Then there is an implicit allliance
with the Sunni in Iraq to back off their insurgency while we take on
Iran (their sworn enemy) of which we will promise them more of
a role in running the country. Twenty thousand more troops in Iraq
now is for the preparation of attacking Iran come March or so.
The only sane course in all this is to begin here at home with
catharsis; Impeach the President.
So much for Mr. Gates being anything less than a gutless, lackey, shitheel, yesman.
-GSD
aaagh. Second time I’ve checked in on the Armed Svcs cmte hearings – 1st time it was Inhofe blathering about how emotional and grateful Iraqis were about voting. Quick – chge channel.
This time – Thune – handing the classic softball – how do you respond to the criticism that the plan isn’t new.
It’s still running, but my brain tuned out…sounded like sam-old-same-old to me.
Wow. Thanks for the seminar, lhp. And the anecdote about playing hangman in court with your “husband” client is priceless.
Andrew Sullivan, via TPM:
Without this knowledge, jurors can easily be tricked into following the straw man created by Libby’s defense team.
brownandserve @ 21
Peterr @ 9
I understand what you mean, but I am concerned about jurors who will buy this crap, b/c there are some who will. I knew a republican who conveyed to me that the government is a big scary enterprise – that the people have no business trying to understand and also that Wolf Blitzer is a liberal who makes her blood boil.
Oh, lhp – my apologies – I didn’t mean to step on your lovely laying out of the opening statements seminar (these are great, btw-hve you thought of teaching?)– my disgust just jumped straight to my typing fingers.
hackworth @ 31
That’s why there are 12 jurors and the judge admonishes all of them not to reach any conclusion until the case is in their hands. Then they have to hash it all out, and listen with open mind.
Sure, some few will tentatively buy into Libby’s defense, but in the end, they’ll have to vote for a conviction.
BC
this is great stuff, lhp – thanks, from a layman.
looseheadprop, again, thank you so much for these tutorials. They’re invaluable for everyone.
Question, and I apologize in advance if this is redundant or obvious: Will we get to see trial transcripts? How long does it usually take before they are made public? I’m now DYING to read the opening statements from both sides!
Thank you,
-S
I am a criminal defense lawyer and a public defender. I am concerned about the tone and content of this post, as it seems to cynically reduce defense attorneys to caricatures reading from scripts repeatedly used in trial after trial, and fails to recognize that some defendants are not guilty. Our constitutional system is premised on values many of us hold dear, including the presumption of innocence and requirement that the prosecution prove a defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I am assuming readers here are well familiar with the reasons for these legal principles. Therefore, a defense attorney has to convey to a jury the flaws in the prosecution case and may not have an alternate theory of facts, but simply a defense that the prosecution cannot establish what it needs to for conviction. If there are ways which make it easier for a jury to understand the respective burdens of proof and roles of counsel, than there is nothing wrong with using them. But to claim that generally defense counsel are all about creating impressions in an effort to trick the jury is below the quality of analysis and respect for constitutional values usually reflected on this website.
Jill- Come on down- we can’t hear ya when yer so high up on yer horse!
Jill @ 36
Great post. Lawyers are low-hanging fruit for cynics, I suppose. And, not entirely without reason, but, then, they aren’t alone in such regard.
I know I have pre-judged this case because
like the Nixon tapes, what I see is criminal mischief and obstructing justice to do harm
to the Wilson’s and this country…
Libby is getting $3M worth of defense so he
will be well taken care of… they can plant
as much reasonable doubt… in my eyes, he is
guilty…
Jack
Jill @ 36
Jill at 36
I see what you are saying but will defend Looseheadprop solely on the grounds that she is trying to relay her points to laymen who have no idea as to how these things work.
I found it to be very informative and did not see any deliberate slant.
Jill @ 36
Relax. This is educational posting for the (many) non-lawyers here. And who knows, you might get better jurors as a result.
lhp–
Great writeup. I learned a lot. Thanks for this series, looking forward to the next one.
I had an interesting and contentious email correspondence series some time back with the lead prosecutor in the Andrea Yates case. That dude repeatedly used every inflammatory, hyperbolic fallacy and otherwise prejudicial tactic in the toolkit. Fucker wasn’t interested in “justice,” he wanted a a death penalty murder conviction, period.
_
Jill at 36
God bless you and what you do.
And you are right about the underlying principles of our criminal justice syste,
Much of the cynicism (and cynical proctice) comes from the civil side of things.
(Not lhp’s story about presentation to the jury was a civil case).
IMO, much of the cynicism aimed at the legal profession would be eliminated by recognizing that there is no constitutional right to a jury trial for civil suits.
(just had to get my rant in)
In any event,I do not think lhp’s points were aimed in your direction.
Your passionate defence of the underlying principles is appreciated, however.
Very informative LHP. Now I may not need to stay at a Holiday Inn throughout the Libby trial ;)
OT – Donald Trump: Let’s bomb Iran.
A lot of the cynicism for the legal profession would diminish if the public saw a higher priority for integrity of upholding the law rather than wins and victories. It’s just the way our system has developed. I guess.
btw, Great post lhp and thanks for the interesting comment jill regardless of any agreement.
thanks.
twolf1 @ 45
The Donald. Wimpy MoFo can’t even cleanly take down Rosie O’Donnell.
Trump, STFU.
_
707
Somebody pinch Jill on the leg. (Just kidding, Jill)
lhp – Irish history in court? I think I would have fallen asleep..lmao. This was indeed a wonderful week of posts from you. Please allow me to add my thanks.
Does a defendant have to provide a list of sources of donations to his/her defense fund to anyone who may make it public? Win or lose a public official who is charged with such a crime and supported with this enormous amount of money should have some sunlight, imo.
rumi @ 46
A once had a senior seminar in Psychology of Law requiring that I go and analytically observe criminal trials. I would repeatedly see prosecutors and defense attorneys angrily bashing each other in the courtroom with the most heated dismissive rhetoric, and then hanging together in the courtyard laughing and having smokes during breaks.
Show Biz.
_
hey BobbyG, speaking of take-downs, did you ever take care of business with that shock jock who disparaged you on air?
cbl @ 10
Oh,wow, snort!
Why is it that everytime I visit a link on the thread, I have to refresh comments again?
Is it my browser?
Is it because all you loony lefties like TRex (as per Ace whathisname) use Macs and I’m using a PC and this site discriminates against non-Mac users? ;-)
OT: don’t buy windows vista:
http://www.dabcc.com/article.aspx?id=3418
NSA and Microsoft Worked Together on Windows Vista Security
The U.S. agency best known for eavesdropping on telephone calls had a hand in the development of Microsoft’s Vista operating system, Microsoft confirmed Tuesday.
The National Security Agency (NSA) stepped in to help Microsoft develop a configuration of its next-generation operating system that would meet U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) requirements, said NSA spokesman Ken White.
This is not the first time the secretive agency has been brought in to consult private industry on operating system security, White said, but it is the first time the NSA has worked with a vendor prior to the release of an operating system.
By getting involved early in the process, the NSA helped Microsoft ensure that it was delivering a product that was both secure and compatible with existing government software, he said.
Read the entire article here, NSA, Microsoft Worked Together on Windows Vista Security – CIO News Alerts – News – CIO
punaise @ 51
I punked his ass.
e.g., see this.
_
Mandrake,
I too had that problem until I figured out how to work it.
Right before you go to click on the link, click on the number at the top right of the last comment. when you come back it will resume there.
mandrake – Do you right click and open a link in new tab or window? Anyway, come on over to firemaclake with firefox, the water is fine..)
starting law school in the fall.. this is fun.
BobbyG @ 54
I knew you wouldn’t disappoint… :~)
twolf1 @ 45
Love the comment: “The only carpet bombing that should concern the Don is the one on top of his head…”
But, taking W to task on this question:
You know, LHP, I think you have a book in the making here. ;-)
This case is like an elaborate Dagwood sandwich, these informative meta-posts about process just as important as the meat going into it (a la emptywheel’s Anatomy of Deceipt and Next Hurrah posts, along with the impending Hamsher/Smith/Wheeler live blog posts). Would be nice to find a media vehicle to put them all together.
BobbyG @ 38
There are good and bad, as with all professions. It’s defense’s job to do what they do. It’s the prosecutor’s job to do what they do. And some prosecutors can certainly use questionable tactics also. For instance, the Duke rape case prosecutor really effed up his case by making inflammatory public statements about the defendants and now he’s being brought up on violation of ethics charges by the NC Bar. However, seems like, in this case, he’s just not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I actually cannot believe he thought he could get away with it.
Bustednuckles @ 55
Worked!! Thank you!
Why do I get the feeling right now that “it’s quiet out there — TOO quiet” vis-a-vis this upcoming major trial? Why no defense posturing in the news media to prep people to be sympathetic to poor wittle scooter? Isn’t that usually part of the gameplan LHP???
Is there an ambush waiting to strike at the last second?
Or do I just continue to be paranoid?
BobbyG @ 50
Yeah, I think that’s part of it. Respect for the rules is put on hold in the theatrics of winning and losing. At the end of the day, the lawyers can put that behind them even if innocent people sit in jail after everyone leaves.
Here’s a slightly OT question, but as long as there is a legal eagle like LHP in the house…gotta make hay.
This is from CQ.com (by way of muckraker, I don’t subscribe):
So the gist, as I see it, is that Harry Reid needs to be schooled on ethics reform by a Republican minority ( Lieberman, of course). That just rankles in the pit of my craw. What is the actual procedural process for a formal lack of confidence in the Senate Majority Leader?
Sam @ 26
Rather than SPECULATING on Bush’s “long view”…..why doesn’t someone simply ASK Bush what his “longer view” really is????? Let’s find out exactly what’s knockin around in that vast, empty warehouse that Bush’s brain is.
rumi @ 63
“Don’t take it personal…I’m just doin’ my job.”
“Yep, me too. I kicked your ass today in court – I buy the first round!”
“OK”
I’m reading Grave’s Imperium right now, and have just finished the ‘prosecution of Verres’ section. If his fiction is historically accurate as to Roman procedure, and the facts of the case, it’s amazing how little has changed in 2200 years.
CT VOTER @ 53
erm
Then don’t use SELinux
or any of the most effectivly hardened Operating Systems
Hell, just ‘give’ you computer to Russian spammers.
Honestly, I like my tinfoilhat as much as the next guy
(more, if you ask my friends),
but this is a half-formed argument against Vista, when the only other decent ‘hardened’ OS is also the product of aa NSA collaboration.
Of course, SELinux *is* open source, so if you have the wherewithall, you can validate that there are no hidden features…
But staying with an earlier version of Windows is not really free of tinfoilhat material
And, Apple bugs come in pink!
clueless @ 66
Long view? W is beating around the bush….
clueless @ 67
“That was a dirty trick you pulled to get the jury to hear inadmissable evidence today”
“Yeah, it’s always been one of my favorites. It might be the only thing that brings the jury to my side”
“But, it was a third hand anecdote, taken out of context”
True, but who has more wins in court, me or you?”
“…got me there, you buy the next round”
Jill @
36
Hey, Jill. The prosecutors got their turn in LHP’s barrel yesterday. But you already knew that, right? Right?!
Hey, LHP: Check this out via Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..refer=home
Nothing we don’t already know, for the most part. Feel like parsing it?
Actually, JohnSwifty, Reid was schooled by his fellow Democrats to do the right thing: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002331.php
CT Voter @ 53
NSA wrote the DES encryption standard, too. That doesn’t mean encryption is bad, it means that you assume they can read your stuff.
My worry about Vista would be the bugs they have yet to find: the usual tack is to wait for the second release. (Even businesses are waiting before going to Vista. It’s going to cost a lot of money and mean replacing a lot of hardware.)
I’m sorry to say the “my client didn’t say that because the record is confused” tactic actually works on juries. I was on a jury where the defendant told one story in his arrest statement and another (more exculpatory) story on the stand. The other jurors actually decided to ignore both statements because they disagreed. My view that we should go with the more incriminating one he made when he was arrested was not adopted. Argh!
The late great I.F. Stone who gathered his information from
reading everything public out there and then composed his
commentary for his newsletter was dead right most of the time.
His commentary was informed speculation. There truly are no
secrets out there if you are a good reader of tea leaves.
My dogs are great proctologists–they can smell the shit out
there and can keenly differentiate everything about it.
What more do we need to hear from the President on his Iraq
policy or his long view? IT’S ALL OUT THERE. Time to Impeach.
rumi @
64
I didn’t find LHPs post at all unfair to attorneys, but this, I think, is. Our theory of justice is that each side is represented vigorously, and the jury is able to discern the truth after hearing both sides. You might disagree witht that theory, but the attorneys are not somehow being unethical by adhering to it!
P J Evans @ 75
lol…the NSA helped develop the OS that has the most security flaws of any released? Either the NSA isn’t up on security or they just want us to think that. Maybe they just want to find out where the good techs are.
A company held by a company that is/was part of the NSA/CIA bastard child SAIC(Gates former chair) is providing the way to uncover the flaws
Vista contest offers cash for exploits
Security vendor offers $8,000 for reports of Vista and IE7 flaws
clueless @ 63
Judge Reggie Walton’s smackdown of Melanie Sloane of CREW frightened all the lawyers involved in the case, imo, and they have STFU.
Emma Anne @ 78
Emma – I think most of us understand and accept what you are saying (vigorous defense). It’s the notion of the “truth” that is presented to the jury that I/we are discussing. Like in football, you are supposed to play clean; but playing nasty can be what wins. And both sides want to — actually MUST — play to win. This goes against my idealism in defining “truth”. And I acknowledge that my position is idealistic, but it kinda serves as a moral compass for me.
The legal system is set up to be adversarial in nature, thus the win/lose attitude.
Perhaps lhp can shed some light on this, but I heard somewhere than in some European countries, criminal trials are handled a bit differently in that there is some effort made for prosecution and defense to work together to come come to a fair conclusion regarding guilt or innocence and that the judge(s?) participate in this process. I just heard that somewhere a looong time ago and I always wondered about it. But I don’t know the details.
Sam @ 77
I adore your thinking.
rumi @ 79
I worked for nearly a year at a business that was moving its paper-based accounty/inventory system to computer. They bought the software from Great Plains, a subsidiary of the folks in Redmond. The conversion started some time before I got there, and they were still dealing wtih bugs when I left. I have to say that (IMO) some of the problems were caused by the business wanting the computer-based system to work just like the paper-based system. (Some of the paper-based stuff was really two things if you stopped and thought about it. And they were dealing with two sets of management, sales, and inventory books.)
Emma Anne @ 78
I agree with you but that’s not the case anymore, especially with the era reaching back to Watergate and Iran/Contra.
The discussion we need to have is how to restore integrity and faith in the system based on the government’s lack of respect for the integrity of the law.
for instance….innocent people are held without ANY due process based on allegations that can’t be known. The foundation of GWoT prosecutions is based on many precedents of convictions that relied on flawed evidence. Perjury by civilian and govt officials over the past 20-30 years has led to more injustice and further false statements to justify the next round.
Catherine Martin was instrumental in the original Lockerbie air disaster investigations and trials as a govt employee. She worked as a gatekeeper of information to protect govt evidence that led to flawed trials and further injuries to survivors/families. The ‘official’ story of that tragedy could be far different from the truth but it would change the wrongful actions that have occurred to keep old injustice covered up. She was an assistant to Cheney and is due to be a witness in the Libby trial. In the meantime, she totally blew the Moussaui trial….the one where an apparently mentally ill man is passed off as a criminal kingpin and held up for execution…for NOT telling the govt what it already knew to prevent 9/11 but seemed to purposely ignore.
Until the lawyers of this country get serious about respecting the integrity of the law, I’ll have to be skeptical. I usually keep my mouth shut because I do love and respect the dedicated lawyers but I can’t pretend that govt lawyers sincerely have our liberty’s best interests at heart.
*xyz @ 20
Oh, so they only use the appropriate, time-honored (until Bush) term for the party, “Democratic,” when it’s Joe Lieberman. How f**king ironic.
mandrake @ 82
mandrake – doesn’t that sound like a “plea bargain” in our system? I believe a judge has to sign off on any plea bargain, but then again I am no atty. (but I DO watch Perry Mason reruns!).
we’re on the brink of zigdaster, folks….
P J Evans @
75
My main concern about MS Vista is the information in this post.
Zigfield Folly
Phoenix Woman @ 74
Indeed, that’s where I captured the CQ quote from:
Republicans should not be able to make a political point that their amendment to an ethics reform bill actually gives it some real teeth. That is simply NOT cool!
clueless @ 87
Well, I know practically jack about criminal law, so I probably should shut my mouth. But I thought a plea bargain is entered into before commencement of the trial or at sentencing (?) as a way to get the defendant to cooperate with the prosecution on his/her testimony, such as possibly incriminating another, arguably more culpable, party and so forth, in exchange for a lighter sentence.
Rather Zigfeld Folly
I didn’t know about the last one I did until my time had expired, sorry about that.
I need to seek peace anyway.
Serenity, … now!
lhp – I know you are mostly on Plame duty, but maybe sometime in the days to come you could revisit something you have touched on before: keeping your case in the public corruption forum. Not so much in light of Plame, although there are applications and you might want to go that way – but more from the context of the stories coming out (via rawstory) of the USAtty on Cunningham getting squeezed out.
fwiw – if you get a chance.
LHP
Sorry, but in my over twenty(20) years experience, I had more trouble with prosecutors than defense attorneys. It seemed to me that whenever prosecutors got their law license, the first thing that happened was they lost their ability to read(as in read my fucking report you asshole before asking me that stupid question which I already answered in my report.
Just as an aside, I thought I’d also point out that rich people were always able to buy better justice than poor people. Does the name O.J. ring a bell.
Sorry for the snark.
OT
Since Lieberman is the chairman of the Homeland Security committee and has declined to investigate Katrina (as promised in his campaign) how long does this delay the investigation?????
I need to correct my earlier comment. I had my Martins confused in my hasty rant. The Martin I referred to is Carla Martin, not Catherine
Moussaoui Judge Bars FAA Witnesses, Allows Death Case to Proceed
Thanks for all the thoughtful back and forth.
In state court (in New York) a plea bargain is usually reached before trial, although there are times it is done during the course of a trial. A judge does not have to allow the plea to go forward, although by the time a defendant is in court and about to take a plea there has usually been a conference between the judge and counsel in which the terms of the plea and sentence have been discussed and agreed upon. (There are times a judge may allow a plea even if a prosecutor disagrees, but a prosecutor cannot force a plea before a judge who will not approve it.) I do not practice in federal court, but I know the procedures prior to plea are somewhat different than in state court where I practice.
Also -as for statements, as you know (or if you’re not familiar, check out the Innocence Project website), there are times that people make statements that are inculpatory, but false. Many of us support the requirement that interrogations (and contacts between police and defendants in general)be videotaped so a jury can more accurately judge the reliability of the statement, and whether any tactics were used to obtain a statement from a defendant which would make it unreliable.
Loosehead prop, were you joking when you said you only represent cooperators? Most of us criminal defense lawyers hate representing cooperators. It’s such a corrupt and morally bankrupt system that provides sentence reductions only to those who rat and tell the government’s version of the truth. The incentive to lie is huge.
Bringing it to the Libby case, I’d watch the testimony of any government witnesses who were offered immunity from prosecution in exchange for their testimony with extreme caution.
Bay State Librul @ 16
I expect that as long as the Libby defense fund keeps raising money for lawyers for an appeal, they will keep spending it.
Bay State Librul @ 17
No, all the reporters can watch on the video feed. He has protected the jurors from undue pressure or embarassment.
The reporters who are going to be in the room were chosen by lot.
Strategerie @ 35
Transcripts in ordinary cases are usually available 7-10 days after the end of the trial. However, if someone is willing to pay the higher price per page for “daily copy” you can have transcripts the next day or sometimes even that night.
Money will not be an object for TeamLibby or the press. The transcripts are a PUBLIC record.
The only issue for us is whethter someone will get a copy that they host on the web and how soon that will go up.
BobbyG @ 43
Prosecutors come in all stripes from the honorable to the cynical, just like defense lawyers
Eureka Springs, AR @ 49
I don’t think so, but some of Libby’s contributors have been quite public about it
clueless @ 63
The judge issued an order threatening to frag the ass of any lawyer for either party even thinking too loudly in the presence of the press. They have a gag order by friends
Phoenix Woman @ 73
I was surprised when Libby called Cheney “voluntarily” for exactly the reason mentioned in the article “litigation begets litigation” so this is VERY risky for Cheny.
I think I recall a seeing an article about the hearing when Wells they they were going to call Cheney that said PatFitz seemed startled by the announcement.
I don’t get it, frankly, the downside potential for all of Bushco seems so much greater than the meager benefit of Cheney’s too sexy for his shirt.
I am perplexed by this.
Thanks for the reply, lhp.
mandrake @ 92
No, it can happen at any time. Or a defendant can just plead to the full indictment if the case is rock solid against him and get his 5 points off his Sentencing Guidlines calcualtion for “acceptance of responsibility”
When I was a prosecutor I had more than one plea “bargains” where my defendants pled to the full indictment. Every Count. A defense lawyer told me I was known around the cafeteria as “the bitch who won’t take yes for an answer.”
I tended to not to want to indict until I had the guy in checkmate. I was a little anal that way.
Mary @ 95
Mary, got a link? I will try to find it on raw story, though I tend not to take them to heart anymore
Mary McCurnin @ 97
Tune in tomorrow (or maybe it is Sunday?) the firepups are on the case. Who needs Joe?
looseheadprop @ 107
Cheney must be critical to his defense (i.e.
I was acting under his orders) but that would
implicate Cheney… You can see that I’m no lawyer
Fitzy interviewed both Bush and Cheney, I think around June 24, 2004…
Could Bush be somehow implicated, or is he
insulated?
Jack
TalkLeft @ 100
In white collar cases, you sometimes find people who had a vague sense that what they were doing was wrong, or that what they were doing was way too good to be true, so when the FBI comes knocking at their door, they know the jig is up.
They feel guilty, they know they should not have gone along to get along. They are basically law ibiding, but weak. So, they want to tell the truth and help the government get to the bottom of all the facts. They are willing to accept responsibility for what they have done. They are repentant.
Sometimes we represent such people. I have a strange gift for writing presentence reports and using ALL of the tools availbale inthe Sentencing Guidleines (I am constatntly amazed how many defense counsel are not that engaged with the guidleines calculations).
One time I got a 26 level departure downward from Level 27 to Level one (zero-6 months) down from IIRC like 14 years. (I’m to lazy this afternoon to go look up what the range is for level 27)
Bay State Librul @ 112
I haven’t a clue. Which is part of why I am so fascinated
though I tend not to take them to heart anymore ?? Really? They seem to usually be links to other news service stories – is there something I missed there?
In any event, it was the Muckraker instead – sorry for the wrong sourcing.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002329.php
Cunningham Prosecutor Forced Out
They picked it up from this story:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/…..12lam.html
In any event, the story made me think about your prior references to the difficulty keeping a corruption case once you start it.
Hi Mary, Even Senator Mark Pryor is upset about the very same patriot act provision you mentioned.
Mary @ 115
OMG Mary, I had no idea this was even happening.
Let me go do some reading. This really is bolt out of the blue.
Well I picked all “one side” stuff out lhp – there is also some stuff about the fact that she worked such difficult corruption cases meant overall convictions dropped very far and a Repub. Congressperson in her district in a snit over not enough immigration enforcement.
Still, if you are going to go reading, don’t miss this Non-Us story
http://www.spiegel.de/internat…..21,00.html
Libby – meet Lady. Cheney – meet Pollari? Probably not I guess, but if so, that could get you to Bush – meet Berlusconi.
None of it will happen here IMO, but it’s nice to see the German Pros rooting for Spataro. And I liked the quote at the end, about it not mattering if a crime is a political crime – it’s still a crime.
Hi Eureka – that link has a boatload of info. Thanks. I’m starting to feel the way about Sen. Leahy that I do about Justice Stevens – top of the prayer list.
Oh Mary, If only Pryor will stick with Leahy and avoid Lieberman like the plague he is. I really enjoy the blog I linked to. Max Brantley runs the only statewide liberal paper in our state.
Thanks for the Italian story. Crossing more fingers..)
Eureka Springs, AR @ 116
A notable use of that provision tried to derail the Abramoff investigation in the early stages.
from 2005
Bush removal ended Guam investigation
US attorney’s demotion halted probe of lobbyist
I found a quick half dozen reasons that BushCo would probably want to get Lam out of there. She was hitting some points hard. She secured guilty pleas from 2 executives of CA’s largest fence co for employing illegal immigrants…damn!
correction on the Black replacement. It happened as reported above but his replacement went through confirmation process….not the same as the PA issue, I think.
Mary @ 118
I remember following that in real time in tinfoil territory. The ’secret flights’ mostly came to light by accident when careless CIA/contractor flights were routinely logged by amateur plane-spotter hobbyists around the world. Somebody noticed the coincidence of tail numbers being switched, pro-sports team logo on one of the planes that was used and other odd details.
The revelation of the rendition teams was almost too blatant to think they weren’t trying to get caught. I guess their arrogance put them above the law in their minds and removed the need for discretion.
If this gets swept under the rug it’ll be another stain on our legal system’s integrity.
Anyone seen this in from EPUland? I thought it relevant to this thread, Fitz being a Federal prosecutor and all.
Mary @ 115
looseheadprop @ 117
Sorry, I was editing and pushed the wrong button.
rumi @ 122