Bush had hoped to persuade congressional leaders to withhold judgment until last night's speech, meeting with more than 125 lawmakers in the run-up to the speech, including House leaders yesterday. But rank-and-file Democrats were unwilling to wait before laying the groundwork to thwart what they call an escalation.
House Democratic leaders have said they will not use the power of the purse in any way that would harm troops in the field, a position that had run afoul of the party's liberal activists. Rep. Ellen O. Tauscher (D-Calif.), a member of the Armed Services Committee, said that pledge is being calibrated to apply only to troops in the field now.
Tauscher said Democratic policy must "satisfy the American people that we're putting a speed bump in front of the president that will actually hold," adding: "The White House is used to doing business on their own, but they're realizing things have changed. This is vastly different."
House Democrats also expect to introduce soon a resolution of disapproval for Bush's new policy but have moved farther than Senate Democrats toward an outright funding confrontation with the White House.
Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) called Tuesday for the administration to ask for renewed authorization from Congress before sending additional troops to Iraq. "I don't believe there's a single member of the U.S. Senate that would have voted for the authorization bill in October 2002 if they thought the authorization was going to commit American forces to be involved in a civil war," he said yesterday.
And to the surprise of absolutely no one:
A top GOP senator said that he "will filibuster" any Democratic attempt to decrease funding for President Bush's new Iraq plan, the Associated Press reports.
[]
"McConnell said he was 'hopeful' of keeping enough Republicans to muster the 40 votes needed to block a resolution (which in any case would be non-binding)," Paul Mirengoff blogs at Power Line. "McConnell added that he looks forward to the support of Sen. Lieberman. However, he could not say that any other Democrats will join the Connecticut Senator."
Lots of Democrats coming out against the escalation, but talk is cheap. Where does your Senator stand on the Kennedy legislation?
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Jane!
Jane!
Impeach!
Impeach Joe!
My reps, Cantwell and Murray are against the escalation.
Good.
WATB leiberman can go Cheney himself either way.
Twolf, you are quite the gentleperson.
Good to see Tauscher saying the right things.
Think something might have put the fear of
Howie KleinGod into her?One of my senators doesn’t support it (Bunning) and it’s the only thing he’s done right this term. The other is standing in the pile of shit that you have posted above (McConnell).
i think kennedy’s speech (and the q&a) was excellent and his proposed legislation is very clever (in a good way). made me very proud.
he’s my senator, so, i’m guessing he’s for it.
it’s important that our senators don’t just say they’re against the escalation – they’ve got to be prepared to support kennedy’s bill.
A filibuster will certainly do wonders for the GOP poll numbers. Stay the course, right Mitch?
twolf1!!!
My condolences, gregariousred. Maybe Bunning heard “wrong” and voted properly this time…
PLUS, he could get around the “troops already in the field” stipulation by pulling them out of Afghanistan, which, I believe, he is already doing.
SO, for this president, much like any determined adolescent, you must spell in detail, each instance in which he will be in violation. Every troop position will need to be litigated down to the square meter. Of course, then the Congress will be accused of micromanaging.
Well, it’s either that or ground the kid.
Tausher just made a scathing comment. Yielded back her time, noting she had no question. Implication was that she was not entertainig any response.
That was good. imho.
edit: is Kerry on record, selise?
Badwater @ 9
Just so. The GOP leadership is following its own precedent of not learning the glaringly obvious after several repetitions, and I sincerely hope it costs them as much in 2008 as it did in 2006.
RBG @ 4
Two in a row for ya!
Tauscher, showing some spine. what’s this world coming to?
Salazar: “interested in the outcome of the hearings.”
I wish he was more interested in the number of dead troops we have to deal with every day.
And a rhetorical query:
What exactly took place bt Cheney and the Saudi’s on that trip a month or two (or three?)back?
GregariousRed–
Do you have link or a quote from Bunning? I’m compiling the views (and the evolution of those views as 11/08 approaches) of the Red State senators who are up for reelection. (21LittleSenators.blogspot.com)
Also, Jane’s link to the McConnell filibuster piece seems to be broken. Does someone have that?
Tauscher needs to get gone and didja all hear Mean Jean diss stem cell research on the House floor? There are many repiglicans and some Dems that must be purged, and soon!
Today my burgeoning contempt for Joe Lieberman expresses itself thus:
Go to hell, Joe.
angie @ 18
example
I live in Texas. You can just imagine how my Senators feel about Kennedy’s bill.
Yes, I think we all saw that coming. Now the question is, what is Congress going to do about it? Meanwhile, Sen. Reid has a petition going against escalation:
http://www.dscc.org/makeadiffe…..lation.htm
jayackroyd @
18
I pull it up here.
Loved Aravosis’s take on McConnell’s threat to filibuster. heh….Filibuster’s are used to *prevent* passage of legislation. Since any legislation for this little adventure would involve the positive act of legislating funding for the work, would not this threat derail said funding?
If so…*go for it, dude*…I’d LOVE to see this in the rags, that a repub pit-bull stopped cold funding for the escalation because he was too stoopid to understand how filibusters really work….
angie @
19
you get no argument from me….her district is north of mine (I have Lofgren). Tauscher strikes me as a little too ‘Lieberman-ian’…she seems not to understand for whom she really works. Her District should see about putting together an event to remind her….
angie @ 19
If only.
So, are they considering stem cell-related legislation now? If so, does it look like they can override a veto this time? I’m thinking that not enough has changed in Congress yet to override a veto.
I’m sure the two charming Senators from North Carolina will support Shrub in anything he wants to do.
justadood @ 25
I hadn’t thought of that, but I suspect McConnell is bluffing, just like it turns out Frist was probably bluffing about having the votes to go nuclear on the filibuster. Therefore, let’s call the bluff!
Unfortunately my Senator is John “I didn’t learn a goddamn lesson from Vietnam” McCain. His answer? Testosterone Surge.
punaise @ 20
Mute button. I have my limits.
Cujo359 @ 27
House passes bill for stem cell research
But the 253-174 vote fell short of the two-thirds margin required to overturn President Bush’s promised veto, despite gains made by supporters in the November elections. Bush vetoed identical legislation last year and the White House on Thursday promised he would veto it again.
Cujo359 @ 27
The House passed a bill today, but the margin seems to be just a little shy of veto-proof.
Just read an interesting bit at Americablog…
The whine for a fillibuster is impotant because -
http:/americablog.blogspot.com
Cujo359 @ 27
via cnn.com:
twolf1 @ 32
Sigh. I hate it when I’m right these days…
Still, it’s potential ammunition for the next election.
twolf1 @ 32
thanks for that, twolf1– I had stepped away and am still enraged, btw.
Compassion, conservatism???
Zilch, Nada, arrrgh!
Explain your vote and his veto to the moms, dads, sisters, and brothers and children of those suffering from debilitating and deadly disease/conditions and don’t forget the troops!
(assholes.)
Fred Barnes and Rep. Duncan Hunter on CSPAN this morning are both comparing Bush to Lincoln.
OT: new Mike Stark diary at DKos about the Spocko v. KSFO saga, including a must-see youtube (image only, no sound).
mandrake @ 38
Before or after the theater incident?
Blank Kludge,
Kerry was on MSNBC this afternoon with Andrea and yes, he’s onboard with Kennedy’s plan.
My dream Senator, Feingold is going on Olberman tonight and is looking for comments at his diary over at Kos.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..155348/355
I’ll have to find out about my real Senators, the Jersey Torture Twins, Lautenberg and Menedez.
Swopa @
6
I think she heard Howie has Normy Coleman in his sights. Normy used to be a Democrat, just like Tauscher used to be a Democrat.
I’d love to see a new map of the US with Blue states representing states where both Senators are for the Kennedy Bill, purple for states with a split, and red for states represented by the cheerleaders.
“McConnell added that he looks forward to the support of Sen. Lieberman. However, he could not say that any other Democrats will join the Connecticut Senator.”
Any other?
How about any, period.
The Connecticutt for Lieberman Party Senator should not be confused as a Democrat. Yes, they have reached out for non-republican support, but reaching out to the Connecticutt for Lieberman Party Senator? Give us a break.
Norm is normalizing only now cause Kofi is out and so is Bolton and Sanctorum.
he’ll be baaack– just wait!
johnSwifty @ 43
the pitter-patter of primary challenger footsteps?
Bustednuckles @ 40
I am not sure that that the Lincoln comparison is going to go down that well with the Southern fundies. African Americans, maybe, but I think he lost their su’port with Katerina {-)
Isbister @ 41
thank you. I should be more on top than to have to ask…of course, in my defense, I’d sorta assume so but you know what happens to those who assume. ;->
Senate Democrats yesterday said they will keep bringing up the bill on embryonic stem cell research because sooner or later it will pass but it may take a Democratic president to carry the day. Yeah! Also, Republicans Specter and Hatch spoke in favor of it. Hatch was a surprise: Will someone in his family benefit from the research? The only time Republicans get on board with such things is when it affects them personally.
Sens. Murray and Cantwell (WA) made statements today in opposition to Bush’s escalation.
hehe. Joe’s gonna join a rethug filibuster against a non-binding resolution, in the unlikely event the rethugs can muster enough votes for it. He and mcconnell et al really need to consider start a Monarchist party.. on the platform that the framers were in error and that there really ought to be only one branch of government and a lot of yes-men.
mandrake @
38
From Abe Lincoln site:
They might be onto something. Looks like Lincoln was pretty much a failure until entering politics too; and that ‘military interlude’ business…oh, just eerie. Now if, perchance, Lincoln had a serious coke habit, well the similarities are already striking!
Blub @
52
Any idea how recalls work in CT?
Thanks, Dusty59. I ended up using the Raw Story link, but that was just what I needed.
Jonah is still running off at the fingers in the LA Times:
“Jonah Goldberg: Do Dems want to win Iraq?”
My letter: “We want to get out of there before Bush and his loyal followers start World War Last.
“It’s _way_ too late to ‘win’ Iraq. It’s been too late since about two days after we invaded.
“Jonah Goldberg has his head wedged.”
Millineryman @ 42
go russ!
punaise @ 47
Big Ed Shultz usually refers to Normy as Bush’s water carrier, so ‘piddle-patter’ may be more apropos.
Just heard John King on CNN SitRoom tell Wolfie that the American people would give Bush credit for admitting lots of mistakes were made and he took responsibility.
I call bushshit. Truthiness alert.
Bush did not accept responsibility. He said responsibility rested with him. There’s a difference!
And he didn’t admit anything. He said where mistakes were made, the responsibility rested with him. That’s yet one more slippery dodge by the dictator in chief. While the nanny msm comes along and wipes his nose and says there, there, it’s all right, you don’t have to be a real man and talk straight, we’re still willing to pour the koolaid at your preschool.
Prairie Sunshine @ 58
It’s along the lines of the “I’m sorry you feel that way” non-apology that gets spun as an actual apology.
Condi threatens to beat Maliki’s brains out!
mandrake @ 38
Well, they are both carbon-based life forms …
EXCLUSIVE: U.S. TROOPS HAVE RAIDED NORTHERN IRAQ’S IRBIL AIRPORT, ABC NEWS
U.S. Troops Stage Second Secret Raid at Iraq Airport
(sorry ’bout caps)
Menendez is a cosponsor of the Kennedy bill.
Lautenberg office couldn’t give me a on record yes, they seem to think he’s going in the direction of support. He offically opposes the surge. I encouraged him to support it.
twolf1 @ 62
holy crap!
How about passing a “Shared Sacrifice Draft” for all children between the ages of 18 and 40 of all nationally elected officials and administration appointees at the Department of State, Department of Defense, and all Intelligence Agencies. Would Bush be so willing if Jena and not-Jena were on their way to Iraq.
I woke up to the news hearing Hillary and chuck say no to escalation and that Rudy Guiliani, Peter King supported it. The news also said Joe Liberman , the pimple on the ass of the country, “applauded,” the president.
I had an image of little Joey clapping manically waiting for his kiss goodnight from Bush.
God, I despise that man.
johnSwifty @ 53
IIRC, Lincoln was fairly successful as a lawyer. He represented the railroads, among other clients. According to Stephen Ambrose, who wrote a book on the transcontinental railroad called Nothing Like It In The World, this experience was one of the reasons Lincoln encouraged its construction.
twolf1 @ 62
to second angie – holy crap!
from your link:
wow, abc news even uses the term “abduct”.. not detain… (see my bold)
Cujo359 @ 61
Both have two arms, two legs, and a head, although I would speculate that there are significant differences in the functional anatomy of the latter structure.
the KIDNAPPER and TERRORIST in chief.
I remain ashamed and horrified.
Cujo359 @ 67
You mean Fred Barnes is just full of Shit! Say it ain’t so!
more from twolf1 @ 62’s link:
again, my bold.
invasion of the jihadi-snatchers
Oh, good. Let’s get the Kurds shooting at American troops, too. That’ll make everything better.
Criminal fuckwits.
EvilDrPuma @ 69
Lincoln’s head == seat of mind and reason
Bush’s head == blunt instrument
mandrake @ 60
I misread that as “threatens to beat Malkin’s brains out” and got all happy.
Pooh.
angie @ 70
this is one of my favorite t-shirts.
Cujo359 @ 75
I was thinking “shoulder ballast.”
UptownNYChick @ 66
I bet it was a real tounger this time.
johnSwifty @ 71
I think Fred Barnes, like most pundits, ignores the parts of history that contradict his point.
EvilDrPuma @ 74
I wonder if the abductees are really jihadi types or they’re Kurdish leaders that the Turks or somebody else egged us on to arrest for them.. if it’s the latter, we’re scewed. Actually.. scratch that. We’re screwed in any event.
EvilDrPuma @ 78
Yes, I wasn’t giving quite the credit for versatility that I should have. It also cools his blood, I think, and helps convert all that nasty free oxygen into CO2.
selise @ 77
I’m fond of this one.
any word from Joe-Bama, the great Liberal hope for 08, on his position vis-a-vis the more forthright and brave Senator from Mass?
I thought not, it’s safer to hide and not have a position, must keep our powder dry, of course.
Cujo359 @ 80
Ah hah! You’ve fallen into the trap, my friend. The mere suggestion that Barnes ever had a point is shear folly.
Now, care to make any case as to the validity of anything Robert Novak has ever said? ;-)
Roopez123 @
44
Don’t have a map but here in Oregon, the Repug Gordon Smith is for Kennedy’s bill. He said it’s a good idea and Smith has called Bush’s Iraq policy “criminal,” a “dereliction,” and “deeply immoral.”
Here’s a link: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..scalation/
And Wyden the Dem says he opposes Bush’s plan so I think he’ll support Kennedy.
sporkovat @ 84
Obama is on record as opposing the escalation. See the Youtube video at that link. What he’s going to do about it remains to be seen, as it is with most Senators and congressmen.
Where does your Senator stand on the Kennedy legislation?
Uhhhh. “My senator” is HoJoe. There promises to be a huge gathering tonight for Lamont. People-power. I just wish we could’ve people-powered Lamont into the senate.
Cujo359 @ 75
Bush’s head == blunt instrument
Blunt – yes. Instrument- U’r giving too much credit – instruments suggest a degree rationality and intentionality.
Richmond @
48
Daily Show: Is Bush the New Lincoln?
Each morning as Fred Barnes enters his office he can be heard softly singing: “….tastes great, wish I had some, can’t wait.” And, as was evidenced by his performance this morning, he apparently does not wait.
Lots of so-called conservatives had a full measure of my attention until the Reagan era and even after his reign, I gave my ear to the pundits.
Since dubya, fugghedabbouttit.
I’m pretty sure Wyden is with the good guys, but what Smith will do is the big question.
edit>didn’t see joysness’s comments when I posted.
old gold @ 91
I think he uses one of these
I heard part of an NPR interview today. Richard Pearl, pathetic. He claims he opposed many of Bush’s decisions and got really screechy with the host. At least that’s what sounded like what was going on. I had to strain a little to hear.
Nice to know the Pacific Northwest is solidly behind giving Bush a big F. U..
An I aint talkin Friedman units here.
hehe.. whoever just spoke in the Iraq senate hearings just said that in the future Iraq will comprise Kurdistan and Chaostan
so chimpy is going to send even more troops into harms way! bullyboy has more military experience than the generals who’ve told him how wrong-headed he is! or so he thinks – isnt time finally for impeachment hearings? this bastard needs to be stopped before he begins WWIIIi’m off to demonstrate yet again against this crazy shit.
rat bastahd,
Senator Smith (R – Sane), has referred to Bush’s policy as “deeply immmoral”
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..scalation/
Colbert & O’Reilly confirmed.
Cujo359 @ 87
Do we have any way to bind him it? Joe-Bama?
Speaking of “seeing this coming”, read this.
Seriously.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.c…..shall.html
Bush cheered at Fort Benning
mui @ 88
i’m so sorry to miss the lamont gathering tonight. are you going? if so please give regards to all (especially to the lamont family and queen megan) from the MA irregulars (me, RevDeb, scarecrow and Kathryn in MA).
twolf1 @ 62
Now we’re taking on the Peshmerga?! Un-f’ing-believable.
The mind boggles. Words fail.
No surprise, Barbara Boxer opposes:
nary a peep about this on DiFi’s website.
Actually, Difi was on larry king last night where she expressed “deep disappointment” at Bush’s speech and actually used rather strong language.
selise @ 104
Oselise @ 104
O.K. I had to click on your picture. The Lamont campaign had a lot of Megans, eh?
Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY/Blue America) currently on C-Span3 asking Gen. Peter Pace “wtf – who is controlling the Iraqi oil money?” (paraphraise)
twolf1 @ 100
Thank you, Lord, for making Bill O’Reilly’s ego absolutely boundless. The Lord giveth the rope and Bill taketh the rope and keepeth on taketh, and taketh…
I suspect Colbert will agree with nearly everything that comes out of the man’s festering gob…and then push it to the nth degree to see if vapid suction of hot air will drag O’Reilly along with.
Oh fraptious joy!
Oh crap, I can’t believe I ziggurated all that @108.
mui @ 88
At least Dodd is against it. Lieberliar makes me physically ill – what a horrible, horrible twisted little man.
If the Dems moved to have the true cost of the Iraq war incorporated into the budget it would have more of a negative impact on Bush/Cheney/Lieberliar/McCain’s ability to continue to wage this horrific war than any 12 resolutions denouncing the “surge” – And they couldn’t be labelled obstructionist – just fiscally responsible.
The fact is, most Americans have no idea how much this is costing the country and if they did, I think they would be marching on Washington with pitchforks and torches.
mui @ 111
but it’s a graceful double zig.
Blub @ 107
good for her. thanks for the info.
johnSwifty @ 110
Imagining different scenarios. OReilly is the kind of guy who twitches and perceives insults when he’s not being insulted. Colbert will pass over his head. Or OReilly will get so mad, he’ll reach over the table and they will have to extricate our Colbert.
Condi Hearts Fox.
And there is news there?
mui @ 108
queen megan did all of the out of state volunteer coordination (out of the meriden office). jane convinced me to take a look at lamont. ned convinced me to believe in the cause… but, queen megan taught me be to believe in the organization.
i’d volunteer for ned again in a heart beat… and any campaign that queen megan thought was worth working on herself.
selise @ 104
I’m not going either. Have a cold and just don’t have the energy to travel to New Haven.
If you go, mui, please fill us in on the details.
urban pirate @ 102
Yup, talkingpointsmemo is solid, too; day in and day out. If there is any real failing in the blogosphere, it is that there are too many good information sources lost in the noise.
Marshall has been shouting in a vacuum for years.
dab from CT @ 112
Thay was often all too depressingly clear during the campaign, wasn’t it?
selise @ 117
I liked my megan too, but she was a different megan.
cbl @
99
Yes, I realize Sen. Smith has backpedaled like mad as he has realized he is seriously vulnerable in 08, yet this indicates he hasn’t fully come to grips with the idea that he works for us, not Lameduck.
Narrative is shifting as we post. Wolf’s listing Brownback, Coleman, Snowe, Collins, Hagel and three more I didn’t catch as in opposition.
There’s a slippery slope element here. If eight or ten Senators leave the reservation, then it becomes easier for the next four or five. Warner is one example. All the president has is partisanship. Can you imagine the republican opposition to a democratic president defending this abject failure of nation-building?
I don’t think any senate seat is safe, given the numbers we’re seeing. Note to Howard Dean–start running, through a cut out–some really nasty radio ads against Ted Stevens. Just using his own words, like the internet tubes idiocy. Make it clear that Uncle Ted (that’s what they call him up there) has lost it.
They’re all vulnerable. Tom Andrews has looked at the numbers and sat in his safe congressional seat, unwilling to challenge Collins or Snowe. This has changed.
This is going to accelerate.
The really funny one was Sen Warner. King asked whether shrub’s plan in Iraq will succeed or fail.. Difi said no, so did a couple other panelists whose names I don’t recall right now.. then it was Warner’s turn. He actually answered the (direct) question with “It’s clear to me that it is time for all of us to work together in a bipartisan manner” toward an end he would not specify. Larry King being who he is did not press him.
punaise @ 114
dab from CT @ 118
I’ll plan to get there a little later in the evening, but I will try and be all eyes and ears.
Josh Marshall and Steve Clemons are wondering if Bush is trying to provoke Iran into taking military action against the U.S. I hope Congress isn’t sleeping through this Gulf of Tonkin.
johnSwifty @ 119
I read him daily, but I missed this way back when, and haven’t yet read such a prescient summation of exactly what the f*cks were up to.
He predicted it all then, and summed it up perfectly – losing is winning, as long as we don’t quit.
We’ve all been played.
OK, Need to sign off.
FDL,
I will be away from the blogsphere for the next several days. Continue the push to call Senator and Representativs. Loudly and proudly remind them that we re-elected them precisely to stop the kind of shit the whitehouse is trying to pull. The campaign is already working. Keep the pressure going tomorrow, through the weekend and into the next week. Organizing demonstrations around the country will be the next step. Start the planning and the coordination with other bloggers now. This is where we all turn the tied. Hoorah!
dab from CT @ 118
almost a two hour drive for me… more for the other MA irregulars. i’m just getting over a strep throat and RevDeb is coming down with something….
i’m sorry to miss it and i hope there is a good turn out. i am very grateful to the lamont family and all they gave up to challenge he-who-shall-not-be-named. would have liked to express my thanks again.
mui @ 128
have fun! so glad you are going and can bring our good wishes to the lamonts… and can report back to us with all the details.
mui @ 128
I’m part of the Ned Army as well, but not going tonite. Count me in for anything you need.
Jacqrat @ 109
Jacqrat -
How are you receiving C-Span 3? I called Dish recently to try to add but they don’t carry it. Can’t access via computer due to dial-up. Tks!
Jon Stewart In Talks With Washington Post To Cover 2008 Campaign
patience @ 129
I really urge folks in red states to call or write their senators. I even took the fountain pen out of mothballs and hand wrote a letter to Collins from my ancestral address.
This war is incredibly unpopular, and the trend is toward greater unpopularity. Let those republicans know that they support the president at their peril.
Just wanted to let all the pups know: We just received word that we got the second press pass to Libby’s trial we were trying for, this one in Pope Markos’ name (well, his blog, anyway).
Which means we’ll have a seat in the court room, and one in the media room, from whence there will be:
emptywheel @ 136
sweeeet!
How about a gradual withdrawal of funding?
emptywheel @ 136
Wow, thanks for everything Marcy.
emptywheel @ 136
woohoo!!!!!
rat bastahd @ 122
Sh*t…and your link is dated yesterday, mine was from the 9th. so looks like we may have a flip flop. AARRRRGGGGHHHH
urban pirate @ 127
We haven’t been completely played, we didn’t vote for these people. What we did do was sit by, complacent (perhaps a little noisy, but non-actively so), and let the fundies bond with the kool-aiders in an unholy alliance; then, THEY got played, but we let it happen.
I’ll never claim to be a prescient as Josh, but I smelled the shit on this whole crew a mile away…we all did. WE just didn’t do enough, soon enough. But, SOME tried. Jane started a blog and Goddess bless her for it. No snow flake in an avalanche feels responsible, but some snowflake starts it. Jane’s my snowflake.
That, and she wears mukluks! Talk about a sense of snow.
Sally @
126
Josh Marshall:
liveflogging!
jayackroyd @ 135
good idea to call our blue state senators (and representatives!) too!
emptywheel @ 136
WOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Something’s in its heaven and all is
right with the world…not quite as shitty as it was a minute ago.emptywheel @
136
Very kewl and earned. and this we is thankful.
emptywheel @ 136
Happy Fitzmas!
emptywheel @ 136
Will they let us wear our pajamas in the courthouse?
And bring our Cheetos?
emptywheel @ 136
woo-hoo! didja see this WaPo article about the bloggers at the trial?
Waccamaw @
133
I stream it live from the C-Span.org site. Scroll down to the middle of the page at the bottom, and you’ll see either a Real Audio or Windows Media “Live Streams” link for all three C-span channels.
Oops. Sorry for your dial-up. I may have to resort to that soon. My DSL bill is killing me.
Swopa @ 149
Better make sure looseheadprop sees that comment before you pack your bags for DC, Swopa. She scolded (well, advised, really) me that I have to look my best. At least pack a nice shirt. You’re more handsome than the average journalist, so you’ll look great anyway, but don’t want to get us kicked out of the court room!
johnSwifty @ 142
I feel played because I have been a victim of sleight-of-hand.
While the entire world has been focused on the tactics that will bring about peace and reduce bloodshed in Iraq, that was never the plan. The plan has been to foment and escalate, setting the stage where the next step – overhtrowing Syria/Iraq/Lebanon becomes inevitable.
I have read PNAC, and understand “a brand new start”, but I have not seen the argument that winning is losing before, and it seems to be the most plausible explanation that I have seen for what has transpired.
hehe.. some rethug.. dunno who.. just used his speaking time on the medicaid bill to call us a bunch of traitors and to tell us that the price of questioning the president on anytuing is going to be a domestic terrorist attack many times the size of 9/11. Wish I knew who this guy is…
Sally @
126
Was it Ron Paul (R-TX) that today used that exact framing about Iran and a Gulf of Tonkin “incident”? Can you say “Constitutional Crisis”?
Bloggers Gain Access to ‘Scooter’ Libby Trial
“This case shows how the blogosphere has had an impact on how the news was covered,” Hamsher said. “During Watergate, there was no place for people to meet and say, ‘This story makes no sense.”‘
oh.. Gingrey..R-GA
emptywheel @ 152
I’d take that as a compliment, but I saw the journalists at YearlyKos.
Blub @ 157
Is there such a thing as a motion to shut the fuck up? I mean, c’mon, if you aren’t even going to address the bill up for debate…
Sen. Johnson able to talk, begins therapy
twolf1 @ 160
And again I say, in your face, Tucker Carlson!
Swopa @ 149
POPCORN!, baby popcorn
Hmm, a surprisingly insightful column from Novak.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02021.html
“Republicans in Congress who do not want to be quoted tell me that the State Department under Condoleezza Rice is a mess.”
Above I meant losing is winning, but it’s the same thing.
We all know that the PNAC plan all along was to “burn down” the entire middle east. I’m trying to get my brain around an argument that posits that the only way to achieve that, but then extend and foment the engagement to turn it into a regional conflict.
If we had been “greeted as liberators” would that have been a “loss” for PNAC? Would that have been detrimental to the grand plan, and has the “real” plan been to “lose”?
I’m grasping at the idea, but what I’m getting my brain around is the fast that Bill Kristol’s dream was benefited by the Mosque explosion, and the creation of death squads, etc. Because it leads to an inevitable engagement of Iran. One which might not have support otherwise.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 163
So Sparkles is that why they just got the new Deputy? The one who took a demotion to go there? Is he supposed to bring some competene to “heck of a a job” Condi’s shop?
OT – tinfoil hat- Yukos the Russian Petroleum mogul has been found dead in his London apartment. I had wondered about the Russian deaths recently and the possibility that the global Western oil cartel isn’t pushing against Russian government and Putin control and there related smack down is taking place. Why is this important now? Because the Russian petroleum cartel may have been supportive of the Bush/Chevron/Shell grab of Iraq, Iran and other M.E. oil reserves at the expense of the Russian government more generally – and Putin. (Remember Russian/Iran close links).
He. Actually, when he did turn to HR 4 it got worse.. he started talking about babykilling and the need to make anti-abortion part of the the bill (actually I’m not sure that’s what he was talking about.. just blabbering..) Question: are all these issues (abortion, school prayer, war in Iraq, 9/11, immigration issues etc etc) conflated in the mind of a typical rethug? It would sseem that way.
EvilDrPuma @ 159
I may be waaaaaaay out on a limb, but was the plan to lose all along?
Richmond @ 166
Didn’t somebody a few days ago have information that linked him to the former agent who died of poloniom poisoning?
urban pirate @ 168
Halliburton/ KBR Exxon win, everyone else loses.
Bush today: “We have defied the pessimists and we will do so again”
urban pirate @ 168
I thought PNAC wanted to control the oil? If the whole area is in flames, that’s gonna cut off oil production
urban: you are right on. I’ve stated here before that for the neocons like Kristol, the only thing better than killing an Arab is to have them kill eachother. Because they are disgusting wusses.
Nice turn out of folks in Athens, GA to protest the escalation!
urban pirate @ 164
I think you’re getting carried away. The plan was to have the region kneeling to American power — decapitating Saddam’s regime with one stroke and being “greeted as liberators” would have accomplished that, as we looked around and said, “Anybody else want a piece of this?”
Regional chaos is simply the fallback position, with the assumption that we could win a war of attrition.
Bill Kristol’s dream was definitely NOT helped by the mosque explosion.
Wes Clark talking about Bush on air America after commercials.
I’m out.
Night.
twolf1 @ 170
No, PNAC wins. At least as long as we don’t withdraw and are eventually goaded into “a backdoor war w/ Iran” (quoting what pat buchanan just now said on msnbc)
looseheadprop @ 172
haliburton is good at putting out fires too, they got paid big bucks for it in the first Gulf war.
looseheadprop @ 172
PNAC wants to raze the whole place and “start over”
Swopa @ 158
Well, you wouldn’t expect an out and out compliment from me, would you? How are we going to get to Survivor levels of behavior by the time you make it to DC if I go complimenting you all that time?
looseheadprop @ 165
I suppose so. The rumor mill also has Condi leaving at some point, so Negroponte will be ready to step into her Manolos. Him being a career diplomat, at least he’d have some background. Who knows what the real story is? Only Allah, at this point.looseheadprop @ 165
I suppose so. The rumor mill also has Condi leaving at some point, so Negroponte will be ready to step into her Manolos. Him being a career diplomat, at least he’d have some background. Who knows what the real story is? Only Allah, at this point.
looseheadprop @ 169
I think so, but can’t remember. Any other thoughts on this?
emptywheel @
136
All the facts are belong to us! emptywheel! Jane! Christy!
Arianna! Markos!
new thread
Swopa @ 175
I may definately be getting carried away.
But would a quick decisive “victory” in Iraq, leading to democratic elections and resulting in a government similiar to the other democratic countries in the region (who dont like us) really achieve what was hoped for – “a brand new start”?
Or would a duplicitous plan leading to a wider conflict be more advantageous towards those goals?
I would think that is too reprehensible to contemplate, but there was Josh painting the picture and quoting the principals before it all even started.
I really hate Joe Fucking Lieberman. There are not words strong enough to describe my contempt.
I just had to say it.
CNN is recapping Condi’s testimony today. In response to a statement from Feingold about Iraqis killing Iraqis, she said she disagreed and that this really isn’t about Iraqis killing Iraqis. Said the Stanford Brain Trust: “Iraqis are being killed by death squads. Um, well, yes, the death squads also consist of Iraqis, but…” at which point she was cut off.
Hello? Knock knock. Is anybody home in the Executive Branch? Anybody?
Jacqart said
Mine too. I pay $40 for high speed access plus 58 for cable. They have a wireless setup in my town but the cost is similar for the speed I am using now. So I did not change.
I guess I’m not quite that cynical. I think the neocons originally did plan to win and win quickly.. now they don’t care anymore.. it’s just about political survival. But the corrupt among them still want to make us much money for the contractors in whose pocket they live as possible, regardless of the outcome. It’s really just sad.
urban pirate @ 186
Negroponte: Al-Qaida the biggest threat
Again, here’s Josh’s article – written in 2003.
For the record, Leahy and Sanders strongly oppose Bush’s escalation. Leahy consponsers Kennedy’s resolution, and cosponsers the Feingold Kerry resolution to begin deployment. Vermont’s lone representative to the house, Progressive Peter Welch, also opposes.
Richmond @ 182
That’ll be TRex’s late night re Litvinenko, here.
Much heavy lifting done there, including a visit from Dr R J Hillhouse, of the spy who billed me. TRex said there was a connection, way to go therapod. Rayne will go bananas when she sees this.
looseheadprop @
162
Baby popcorn? I think that’s going a little too far with the designer baby veggies. Does it say WATB when you eat it?
We know how Washington delegation stands on escalation.
[Mod Note; edited to simplify link.]
urban pirate @ 192
I’m familiar with the article — but it’s describing chaos where everyone suffers but the all-powerful U.S. military. 3,000-plus dead and an uncooperative Iraqi government weren’t part of the plan.
OT – 4,500t ship ‘drifting towards oil rig’
Mommybrain @ 195
It’s LHP. I consider it a typo:
Popcorn, baby, popcorn!
The Central Oregon Report:
Over the lunch hour-and-a-half today, 40 well-bundled de-escalation demonstrators descended on the offices of Sens. Wyden (D.) & Smith (R.) and Rep. Greg Walden (R-OR2). Senator Wyden’s staff provided hot coffee for the chivalrous and chilly citizenry representing the Central Oregon Peace Network, CodePINK, the Interfaith Action for Truth and the Rural Organizing Project.
The event was well covered by the local media with empathetic reporters from the local NBC affiliate, KTVZ-21 and the Fox affiliate, Fox-10. Radio reporters were on hand from KLCC-FM and KPOV-FM.
I should be featured on both TV stations on this evening’s news. I decided that speaking in easily editable soundbites would suffice for our “message”. Hopefully they’ll use some of the zingers.
“Why can’t we get the oil companies to hire their own army?”
“We were right about everything when we were protesting this war in 2002. George Bush was selling us a pack of lies. Why is it that George Bush can’t get no disrespect?”
“The only thing that we taxpaying Americans got out Bush’s rotten war is $2 Trillion more in debt and 3,000 boxed buddies.”
“Escalation? In early 1967 Lyndon Johnson told us in his State of the Union speech that we needed to escalate. At the time, 7,000 soldiers had lost their lives in Viet Nam. By the time the escalation was over, another 51,000 had died for nothing. What kind of a people are we in America that we don’t learn the lessons of history?”
“We’re here because we think that George Bush got it wrong last night. What he really meant to say is that it is time to DE-escalate.”
Etc.
And about our Senators…. It seems that we have one of the best pairings in the Senate today as far as opposition to the folly of King George. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of our Republican Rep. who has been quite uncharacteristically silent on the matter of the Iraq War. Some think he’s at least as persuadable as much of the cattle in our district to our point of view, if we can first remove that brown crud from his nose.
Thanks for the feedback on this swopa.
It’s a very interesting topic I think. Certainly it’s a different line of thinking. And here we are, facing their increased objectives as an almost certainty.
I’d love to talk more about it as I get my arms around the whole idea.
mandrake @
38
I’ve been watching these republicans like Gordon Smith and Chuck Hagel coming out hard against Jr.
My ultimate hope is that I’ll be able to see Fred Barnes’ head implode, right there on the Fox set, within fragment range of Gretchen Carlson.
punaise @
143
Several of us here have been saying the same thing for a few weeks now. ET has been on it and I’ve brought in examples of possible red flags waving. We may not agree on the details behind the actions but familiarity with BushCo sees the writing on the wall
As to the neocon’s Chaos Theory this exerpt says a lot
This is also an example of why the cultural treasures, like the museums filled with priceless history, were left open to the pillage and destruction of looters. Another reason is to get those treasures in the hands of some collectors.
The ancient mosques crumble under mortar fire for this same reason…destroying the order for rebirth.
Apologies if OT, but driven crazy right now by other stuff, so, – repeat of EPU’d comment downstairs
Adie @ 141
emptywheel @
199
;~/
I say, bring on te popcron!
Oops. Too much zig, not enough zag.
[Mod Note; refresh and see if it looks better.]
I’m only responding to the first couple of comments in this thread..Sorry i tread lightly amounst this crowd..So IMmostHO..
As a voice in the wilderness concerning the word ‘IMPEACH’. Let’s stop the talk now and for good..no more impeachment talk..
My Main concern is getting a Demo prez in the HW. 2008. Let’s not get distracted by that impeachment stuff right now..
WE NEED the other branch..Let’s go for it and elect a demo prez. THEN we can talk!!
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Kind Regards,
Billy Boy @
207
Billyboy, I agree, reluctantly. But, Jeez, I really these crooks front and center to answer for their misdeeds. I want them broken and disgraced and sentenced.
But what the country needs is what you say. It’s going to take a while to fix what-all they’ve broken or ignored and will take our full attention.
Still, try yelling “Impeach the bastards!” at the top of your lungs periodically. Feels good, huh?
If you guys missed Olbermann tonight, you’ll want to find a transcript — he let fly with both barrels, absolutely lambasted the Shrubster. It was beautiful!
“New Way Forward” = “slam dump”
Mommybrain @ 208
I’m going for the popcorn so the hell with the zigs. ;-)
I see the possible merit in not pursuing impeachment or at least I did a few weeks ago. The big problem with the Bush-type power is that it keeps taking more power for granted when it goes unchallenged.
He needs to be reminded, daily, constantly, that his position of power is at risk for accountability with severe consequences for disregard of the law.
As he is fond of saying….all options remain on the table.
The words of praise for Lieberman from Bush and McConnell sound to me like, “Welcome to the Republican Party.” Is an announcement coming? Especially since Lieberman lost control of his own “Party”.
rumi @ 211
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I understand the anger at this farce of a president..And MommyBrain.. You’re idea about yelling impeach the bastard brought such a smile to my face. I still don’t want us distracted by impeachment procedures when there is so little time to prepare for the elections..The Democratic Control of all the Government is our way out of the desert and I am so excited about our chances.
A little background..I was a 21 yr old democratic activist when Nixon was claiming he wasn’t a crook in ‘74. We were screaming at the top of our lungs..’ The hell you’re not!!’
Instead of breaking into Watergate..Bush has broken into the Constitution. So I totally understand your position on this..Boy, do we have alot of work ahead of us..