Guess there won't be any bold move to stop the "surge":
President Bush's speech may be scheduled for tonight, but the troop surge in Iraq is already under way.
ABC News has learned that the "surge" Bush is expected to announce in a prime time speech tonight has already begun. Ninety advance troops from the 82nd Airborne Division arrived in Baghdad today.
An additional battalion of roughly 800 troops from the same division are expected to arrive in Baghdad Thursday.
It is the first small wave of troops in a new White House strategy that is expected to put more than 20,000 additional U.S. troops on the ground in Iraq and likely require new call-ups of the National Guard.
I have to say that even as someone who spoke out early and often against the war, even I could not envision what a cocked-up mess it would become. I don't know if many anticipated the corruption and incompetence of the Bush administration, and their breathtaking ability to befoul everything they touch. But if as the Carpetbagger reports this plan for surge escalation was chosen just because Dubya wanted to prove something to Poppy and it simply wasn't a suggestion made in the ISG report, his "war management" skills are even sicker and more toxic than we've come to believe.
Related posts:
- Keep the “Anti-Escalation in Afghanistan” Blog Fellowship Going
- Gen. Ray Ordierno: We May Never Win in Iraq
- In Exclusive Interview, Matthew Hoh Says Escalation in Afghanistan a “Terrible Way to Prove a Point”
- Taking Out the Intelligence Laundry: McClatchy Avoids Policy Debate in Pro-Escalation Afghanistan Report
- Early Morning Swim: Special Memorial Day Edition
Spotlight
twolf
TEDDY KENNEDY!!
Zed?
No fair!! FF locked up.
I don’t get Tweety saying that this is his “next to the last chance” he has.
Well what would you expect from such a dishonest, corrupt (Christian evangelizing?) lot?
he’s sitting very still for him…
musta super glued him to the chair…
The pResident looks scared.
It was all coming up roses until they blew up that mosque. No one could have anticipated it….
So I guess his speech tonite is to tell us it has started and not to suggest it. How typical.
Always Wrong. If he didn’t escalate he wouldn’t maintain his 1000 batting average.
The audio is breaking up.
The same George W. Bush who so proudly declared himself a “war president” is leading the United States to strategic bankruptcy and geopolitical disaster. As Commander-in-Chief, President Bush displays all the hallmarks of the failed executive. With a nod to Stephen Covey, call them the “Seven Habits of Highly Defective Presidents.”
1. Name Names and Outsource Responsibility
2. Focus on the Process, Not the Plan
3. Set Dates to Turn Corners
4. Use New Slogans for An Old, Failed Product
5. Find New Uses for An Old, Failed Product
6. Announce Your New Product Before It’s Ready
7. Don’t Do The Market Research
For more, see:
“Iraq and the 7 Habits of Highly Defective Presidents.”
He made mistakes and we’re suppose to be comforted by him sending another 20,000 into the heart of it.
I’m not tripping so this makes no sense to me.
ccmask @
1
No fair! I wanted to get the first twolf.
Here we go.
I need another beer.
Please remember to watch for signs that his speech is part of the camouflage operation for Operation Iran.
raven @ 12
so is the country.
oh! it’s about Iran!
chimpy is having a hard time saying some of these words. he’s stuttered or otherwise bumbled 3 times so far
The idiot DOES look scared.
Millineryman @ 15
Stick your tongue on the TV screen.
Dosed!
John A has the speech up..if you have a strong stomach.
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..peech.html
The situation in Iraq is unacceptable to the American people and unacceptable to me.
Sort of like the little kid who says the glass fell off the table and broke on the floor.
Now the costs of failure. It’s his failure. The same old tired argument saying if al Qaeda wins Iran will be emboldened. al Qaeda is Sunni. Iran is Shia. See the difference?
home just in time for this horror …
DMM @ 17
Damn, the refrigerator’s empty!
is it the audio? i thought it was him
Ed*ard Teller @ 18
It doesn’t need to say anything – later he can say it was just a typo – accidentally wrote q rather than n
he keeps invoking the “military commanders”
EPU’d:
TeddySanFran @ 313
OldCoastie @ 20
And oil!
Too many restrictions on the troops, “free fire zone” the whole goddamn place.
Generals? New Generals or old Generals?
“The new boss, is as same as the old boss.”
-The Who
“September the eleventh 2001″
ah yes. why we went to war. Right (enough already!)
Dubya now doing one of his lists. Dubya loves himself some lists.
he kind of looks like he’s straining the see his lines on the teleprompter
Bush has created a “Shiite Crescent from Tehran to Bagdad”. Thanks George.
local police stations and community policing? like death squads? gee that will be so swell!
Richmond @ 29
he’s already mentioned we need to succeed in Iraq to keep Iran in check.
Where’s the laser pointer!?!?
W is Iraqiizing his war, I think.
Yeah, Balrog, twolf will be upset! Looks like the neo-chief has new wrinkles on his forehead. He is such a puppet. Of course, this is taped, right? It’s past his bedtime.
who is in charge of the Americans? if they are embedded with Iraqis, doesn’t that put them under Iraqi command?
Clear and hold, strap in on grunts, you are staying in the bush.
So far sounds like something that might maybe have worked – 3 1/2 years ago……..
I’ve never listened to a Bush speech. Turned it on so I could blog and watch and comment. Turned it off. Liar.
Troops will have a well defined mission: working with Iraqi units to secure neighborhoods. This is well defined how? How long will it take? How soon does it end?
Why is this plan different from all other plans?
It isn’t.
Groundhog Day.
“green light” to enter those neighborhoods
wtf?
shorter Bush – “we are going to participate in the slaughter of Sunnis”
Blub @ 37
i think you are right – complicated sentences.
green light for death squads accompanied by US troops to clear “those neighborhoods” … this will be sooooo bad
Depends on who is in front of whom.
OldCoastie @ 44
Pretzels anyone?
Anyone notice that Pelosi was honoring Yvonne DeCarlo (RIP) with that outfit today?
Lily, I’m home!
“Now is the time to act.”
glad that’s clear, sir. that line’s probably Karen’s
Iraq will lose the support of the American people if it doesn’t act. A little late for that. The American people are so over this war.
Note the heavy use of the future tense.
“our enemies in Iraq” … like Iraqis who want the occupiers out perhaps?
He does look scared.
The oil must be in jeopardy.
Siun @ 53
Yes. That was the biggest news. Green light for murder, mayhem, rape and pillaging.
We are pariahs.
The “President” says that if we don’t act now, the Iraqis will lose the support of the American people.
Ummm…you have ALREADY lost our support, Mr. Bush.
You are making more lying promises (as you have done many times before) but, we won’t get fooled again.
Get the hell out of the oval office. We need an adult in there!
I’m getting my sign that says NO! and going out tomorrow to Westlake Mall Park in downtown Seattle at 3pm. Maybe I’ll howl.
Most Sunni and Shia want to live together in peace. And I’m father flannigan from boy’s town.
Turn off the sound – he takes the speech in bites.
He looks a quart low
“visible improvements in their neighborhoods”
that might be kind of a challenge for BigTime’s buddies
gonna, gonna, gonna… same old shit.
Oh, geez, Mike Malloy is doing play-by-play as Bush talks….
What the hell is Bush talking about “scenes of xxxxx on our television screens?” We don’t see 2% of what’s going on there….
*xyz @ 10
Ya’ know, as if the remaining 20% cares about a mosque. Who is he talking to here? It’s a done deal.
ccmask @ 61
the spice must flow
He wants to see a free-fire zone, send some of our boys into Sadr City.
Did anyone else hear Tweety introduce Chimpy as “the only Commander in Chief we have”, then stare sadly into the camera?
Pretty funny.
He is a life support system for a flag pin.
oh great, we are gonna better equip the iraqi army. does that mean they get the bullet proof vests instead of our guys?
he got “provincial reconstruction teams” right. he did practice
Kathryn in MA @ 66
I’m listening but can’t look. I just can’t.
ccmask @ 75
brilliant
AL KIDA
And, he’s got that hole in his neck again.
It’s ironic that “Deal or No Deal” and “Criminal Minds” are pre-empted for the SOTU address.
notice he starts to wiggle when he’s talking about al qaeda
oops
oooooh, secret plans. W does love captured secret plans.
Rice to name a reconstruction coordinator. Well, that problem’s solved. Nothing more to worry about there.
Most likely these dudes aren;t going to go nose up with us anyway, they’ll just hit and run and swim like fish among the people.
Twisted Martini @ 73
mandrake @ 78
Yes both bad; honestly I get sick doing both!
ccmask @ 81
Pretzel Evacuation Port
mandrake @ 78
Watching is easier – you can’t hear the horror he’s wreaking.
did shrub just say that AQ is going to use Anbar province as the basis of its new “global empire”?
mrobinsong @
64
I wish I could be there! My brother will probably go.
ccmask @ 66
he has a quart waiting for him right off stage.
blaming Iran now. kinda angry-sounding
More blather about Syria and Iran. Yeah, you have a Sunni insurgency financed by the Saudis and we need to go after Syria and Iran, right.
Iran is supporting attacks on our troops … we will seek out and destroy …
what followed there … was that an announcement of attacks on Iranian soil?
Angie?
Were going to interdict the supply lines from Syria and Iran. . .can you say Ho Chi Mihn Trail.
working with others
full diplomatic resources
[sounding puzzled]
gee, where is the word “diplomacy”?
Uh oh……….
ccmask @ 81
Two tendons are sticking out.
“additional carrier strike group to the region”
TeddySanFran @ 94
Is this where he says we have to attack Iran to save Iraq, and the whole M.E.?
Any bets that the mullahs in Saudi Arabia are passing the hat right now to arm Sunni extremists in Anbar?
Iran is providing help to attack American troops. Isn’t that what happens when you attack a country and go to war. It is called defending themselves.
(this is no way means I am for any one attacking our troops)
I’m listening to Bush.
He doesn’t have a plan, just a bunch of words. He’s sending more of our sons and daughters to die for nothing…again.
We made a terrible, terrible mistake letting this man into the oval office.
Saudi Arabia and Jordan have a stake in peace for Iraq and they have and are sending how many troops to Iraq? I thought so.
bugga bugga… here comes the demonization of Syria and Iran.
But we loves us some Turkey and Iraq– ‘ceptin those that are insurgents and terrarists.
(you know, the ones that are our puppets and the neocons!)
and sending Condi who is so well loved in “the region”
We’re gonna use our “full diplomatic resources to rally support . . .”
And what might those be, pray tell?
We shot that wad a long time ago.
oh, it’s them terrists trying to destroy “our way of life”….
Sending Condi to the Middle East Friday. (Does that mean she won’t be able to testify to Biden Thursday?)
rice will continue the urgent deplomacy!
exshange?
I’m watching Mr. & Mrs. Smith. I cannot handle this public p*ss-off from this moran; already cried too much in the last 24 hours.
It’s time. He’s asking for it, daring us to stop him like a two-year-old brewing up a temper tantrum.
My counsel about waiting for investigations is hereby withdrawn. We must now impeach Bush and remove him from office, as well as his VP.
Jane, is there any chance we could have John Dean here in a ‘FDL Policy Salon’ to discuss how to go about this, given this new fact on the ground (blatent disregard for the will of the governed)?
TeddySanFran @ 112
Hmmmm
Just had a thought…can you imagine how foolish the British would have seemed if they had used the same rhetoric in talking about the IRA?
Will America withdraw and yield to terrorists…
Sick of the violence – will America withdraw? HELL, NO!
Sending
CondiNegroponte to the mid east on Friday.Rayne @ 115
Jane, is there any chance we could have John Dean here in a ‘FDL Policy Salon’ to discuss how to go about this, given this new fact on the ground (blatent disregard for the will of the governed)?
Yes!
Even if it works exactly as planned. . .mofo’s ar gonna die.
It’s the definitive struggle of our times and 20,000 troops are going to swing it. Cognitive dissonance.
Young democracy. Holding an election does not a democracy make and Iraq is no democracy.
neurophius downstairs liveblogging brilliantly.
Upholds the rule of law? Honor civil liberties?
How can Bush bring that to Iraq while he’s stealing that from us here?
Hypocrite! Liar! Criminal!
He consulted with congress.
Iraq? or United States?
“democrats plan will result in mass killings”
If we leave now, we’ll end up staying longer. WTF?
Break the cycle of violence, like the one in Israel.
if we left, it would cause our troops to stay there longer.
This President is the worlds worst terrorist!
Henry Waxman……HELP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1_iYQFvFio
I think I’ve heard this speech before. ‘03, ‘04, ‘05, ‘06? Possibly each year.
FUCKING LIEBERMAN
OK, I got it…the plan is to send more troops now so we can bring the troops home sooner…that’s pretty much what he just said.
He said Lieberman.
RevDeb @
110
If you have a neo-con decoder ring “full diplomatic resources” is the reason we’re deploying the batteries of Patriot missiles.
“mass killings on an unimaginable scale”
Like 655,000?
my contempt for Joe Lieberman knows no bounds…
“acting on the good advice of Sen Joe Lieberman and others”
fuck
so he just blew joe lieberman a verbal kiss in this speech
OMG– he said he was acting on the advice of Joe Lieberman and others.
OMG!
W starting a bipartisan working group to strengthen relationships with Congress — names RGJoe to head it!!!!
he just thanked Joe!
The 20% are just not gonna understand this asking brown people to help us defeat brown people thing.
Drops the “Lieberman”!! Aaaarrrggh!
Acting on the good advice of Holy Joe.
Now we’re REALLY in trouble.
Democrats need to come up with a plan to show how they will succeed in Iraq. Strawman. There is no successful plan for Iraq, just one not so lethal and stupid as Bush’s.
I watched the first 15 minutes of the speech…. and I don’t think that Bush actually understands what he is reading…. its just a bad performance of a monologue.
Good advice? Joe Lieberman?
Definitely delusional.
yes, selfless man and women, but not leaders or theor families.
you rotten fuck. I deplore this man.
Hearing Lieberman used for “bi-partisan” cover made me wince.
Joe Lieberman part of a bi-partisan group?! He’s NOT a democrat. He won his election as an Independent. He wants blood, too.
Horrible human beings. As Dylan said, “even Jesus couldn’t forgive what you do.”
Now it’s “our soldiers are saints, so do what I say.”
Lieberman’s days are numbered. I see things.
Judging from all your comments it seems as though I’m not missing much.
Guess what. The American people are done buying what this guy is selling.
there you have it…
named Sen. Liarman as one of a select group to meet on regular basis with mbrs of admin. to work on …… [whatever…]
– near end of speech.
*xyz @ 137
Yes, but he didnt say DEMOCRAT Lieberman.
I love Ned Lamont.
just how much longer does shrub expect us to pay for his mistakes?
His liver was hanging out of his pants leg when he walked off–did you see that!
Publicus @ 153
I’m calling him Senator Bloodbath (CFL-CT)
He is not my President.
ccmask @
81
DAMN! He’s unscrewed the friggin’ bolt agin!!
My resolve to make sure noone gets away with calling Lieberman an Independent Dem just found new heights!
good night and good riddance
TeddySanFran @ 163
He was never mine.
KO talking about the mention of RGJoe.
urban pirate @ 159
Urban Pirate – I hope all is well with you.
I love Ned too.
He just said a barf load.
Glad it’s over!!!
And I would just like to say my
stoogefriend Joe Lieberman . . .He didn’t mention McCain, which means his family still thinks they can shift the blame for this debacle on Dems enough for Jeb to run in ‘08.
boy, the mention of lieberman felt like a punch in the nose…
OldCoastie @ 160
2 years
Katie Couric just asked a nicely stupid question: “How much pressure is the president under tonight?” That’s right, Katie…it’s all about him. That poor man. He’s under so much pressure. I bet he gets migraines from all the stress of having to stand in front of a TV camera and act like he has a plan.
Thank you, everyone, for experiencing this with me. I haven’t laughed like this for some time. I realize it’s horrible, but I need to be able to laugh at it, because it is horrible.
*xyz @ 169
Right back at ya. All is well here. Hope to join up wth whatever Ned has planned going forward.
202-456-1111
White House Comment Line
Call and say NO!
Hugh @ 174
It will be alot longer than that; remember his real aim is to bring on the “Rapture”
Tweety calls Iran potentially another warfront, on “the high seas.”
Millineryman @ 166
Gotta go out and get a fresh sweat shirt to iron on my
“Josiah Bartlet is MY President” logo.
The ones I have now are 6 years old and getting ratty.
There’s going to be a war with Iran.
This is what Lieberman did to win his seat; he f*cking whored himself out to this administration.
He tried to whore out our party; by invoking this one name, Bush will claim bi-partisanship.
And this after Bush shoved Sen. Collins off to the side, ignoring any feedback from a Republican Senator…
AIPAC’s donors had this bought and paid for in August, this whore and his pimp.
Siun at 96– I did not hear that very clearly, I am sorry.
I am just shaking with disbelief now– I am stunned.
Siun @ 178
Honestly, I am afraid to do that.
urban pirate @ 177
mandrake @
176
I didn’t laugh, but I know what you mean. Then again, McCain’s gonna be talkng soon.
Is the FCC going to fine him $500,000 for swearing on all the networks at once?
After all, he said, “Lieberman.”
LOVE DICK DURBIN!
Durbin doing a good job
and don’t forget:
1-202-456-1111
White House Comment Line
Call and say NO!
angie @
32
…and the ability to wage war on multiple fronts simultaneously. He announced war with Iran and Syria.
Wonder of my party will awaken to what Bush has planned for Iran.
is it just because I’m a dem or was the speech really awfully presented? Where’s Rove?
Am I paranoid, but does his mention of Lieberman feel like a slap at the blogosphere? After all, Lamont was OUR man…
Siun @ 178
Done. Spoke with a nice young man. Spelled my comment for him: N-O
Stop blaming the Iraqis, Durbin. I’m so sick of that coming from the Dems.
I wish they’d have someone besides Durbin do this, they’re going to drag his Nazi shit out most rickey tick.
Wonder how the Israeli government liked the speech?
Eureka Springs … I just called, they ask for your state and your comment … their lines are pretty busy but we should be shutting them down
Oklahoma kiddo @ 182
Patriot missile batteries? Why’d he fuck up and put that in there?
I wish I had the blood pressure and fortitude to look at the freepi’s reaction.
Siun @ 178
Thanks Siun, just left a comment. Got right through.
You know, there could actually be a draft.
No one wants to end the war more than Joe.
Ed*ard Teller @ 187
The comments made me laugh. I would have been traumatized if I’d had to watch that “cold.”!!
Patriots are defensive, no?
Ed*ard Teller @ 199
angie @ 184
Yes, that is pretty stunning. Stopping Iranian aid in Iran or in Iraq, is the difference between the war we have and a brand new one with a country a lot larger than Iraq.
raven @
135
You took the words out of my mouth.
The NeoCons (US or Israel) are going to manufacture an incident with Iran.
Bush is a conman through and through. He loves this act (and especially that little Lieberman bit he threw in to twist the knife).
How many employees do the major oil companies have? Maybe they should be drafted because after all, it’s all about oil. Might as well start calling it the Oil Wars.
mandrake @ 195
AMEN, mandrake. I am sick to death of it and I don’t care if it is politically expedient. SOMEBODY from the dems please stand up and say IT WAS WRONG from the beginning and we are sorry for the > 655,000 deaths of the Iraqis, too!!! Webb on Lehrer now with his take…
Not done puking . . .
Bush . . . Lieberman . . . Oh retch
So is Hillary visiting the space station this week?
we destroy … devastate… level a country
then we train and support death squads and provoke sectarian violence …
then we blame the Iraqis for not doing what we want (hand over their wealth and resources) and when they fight against us, we send more troops
Not a word about Iran from Durbin. Unbelievable.
TeddySanFran @ 195
ahh…he was a Republican.
Durbin taking questions now. Calling for a new AUMF.
(Actually, based on Chimpy’s idea of interdicting Iranian vessels on the high seas, I’d rather the Congress took away his current AUMF.)
Ed*ard Teller @ 214
She’s got a bad case of the runs……
ccmask @ 211
Pardon me? Shouldn’t that be, “how many oil company executives are there?” :)
Bush is but a comma on a long war sentence for our country. Lieberman is an exclamation point.
Just finished listening to the Lamest Duck.
Here’s what I think I just heard: More troops in Baghdad, together with our trusty Iraqi allies in the army and national police, we’re shutting the resistance down. And more troops in Anbar province, where the enemy is Al Qaeda. Then there was some more abour how, with some slick naval maneuvering and diplomatic arm-twisting, working with “others”, we’ll bend Iran and Syria to our will.
I think the hayseed from Yale and Harvard just declared war on the rest of the Middle East. Hell for everybody!
urban pirate @
151
Deplore the behavior or the words, despise the man.
raven @ 206
they were specifically designed to handle incoming low-tech surface-to-surface missiles such as the Iranians posess.
Good. Then maybe the daily 600,000 citizen rallies on the mall will put an end to this… and to shrub.
ccmask @ 203
Durbin’s not a “flower child” – oh, thanks, Tweety, for that brilliant analysis. Does this have to be so painful for him?
ccmask @ 221
Hell, Lieberman’s a colon.
Yeah, Montag. Executives.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 216
nor WILL we from ANY of the Dem “leadership.”
WooHoo Senator Webb!!
Hugh – thanks! that was a real stunner slipped in there (we can attack Iran coz they are helping to kill our troops in Iraq)
beyond all of this … this speech spells out such horror for the people of Iraq who are already being slaughtered day by day …
montag @ 227
both are siphers
montag @ 227
Colons are full of shit right?
I think Chimpy will rue his reference to “our successes in Afghanistan” as he deploys troops away from there just as the Taliban ready an attack on the Kandahar highway.
Jane…hello? Just need to know you didn’t self combust on Chimpys H/T to Lieberman?
Just got through to the WH comment line.
Said NO to escallation, absolutely not!
He asked if I had any comments on the speech. I asked him if he knew the movie Groundhog Day. He laughed and said yes. I said that His speech was like the movie only he hadn’t learned anything each time he relived it.
That was that.
Siun @ 215
You nailed it!
Kathryn in MA @ 229
Where?
Twisted Martini @ 233
Lieberman is a semi-colon, half-assed shit.
Ed*ard Teller @ 229
nor will the MSM media be allowed to ask any questions which might necessarily lead to the subject being brought up in any but a controllable manner.
So, they outed a spy…
mandrake @ 226
That ‘flower child’ remark by Matthews makes me want to get very angry. These guys (Bush and the rest) are still fighting the culture wars of the 60’s.
Scarborough up now with KO.
Selling the Axis of Evil: Iran.
Also, 20,000 troops isn’t enough.
Puzzled by the divergence of opinion.
Mommybrain @ 223
That too.
Siun @ 214
Another amen to you, Siun. We are so lost as a nation.
And yeah, Dick Durbin could have, should have mentioned Iran or maybe even Somalia.
Oh and Webb is amazing in his interview– I could vote for him next time for President based on his truth.
Twisted Martini @ 232
Going right to the source. That’s where it is manufactured.
How fitting.
at least KO and Tweety were calling out the threat to Iran and Syria … they did not miss that and they did not hide it
first caller to cspan just said the host would be wearing a burka
Eureka Springs, AR @ 238
PBS
Bush defined victory his way and narrowly
Holy shit. The nation is being led by a madman.
He just told Iran, Syria, the Shiite militias and the Sunnis to batten down the hatches and gird for war.
That disparate group has the video of Saddams final disposition firmly embedded in their minds.
Fight or end up like Saddam.
It is all downhill from here.
-GSD
Ed*ard Teller @ 224
Are they effective to use against various types of surface to air missiles?
Well I made it to 13 minutes before I screamed at the TV(when he references how well we did in Afganistan).
Marginal, tactical
appropriation retrenchment -
Sen Webb will not vote for more money for reconstruction in Iraq while NO goes without help
I agree with Scarborough on this: the Base won’t like the part where Chimpy said “mistake”
Obaba on KO.
Does anyone know if he deviated from his planned speech?
I think our SAM defenses are pretty good.
rumi @ 250
Are they effective to use against various types of surface to air missiles?
rumi @ 250
Are they effective to use against various types of surface to air missiles?
DMM @ 252
Yeah. Wasn’t that a pisser? We’re striving to do it as well as we did afghanistan. Heaven help us.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 237
On Lehrer.
Scarborough thinks that the speech will bring back the errant repugs into the fold. WTF?
And here I was on the last thread reading Neurophius doing a play by play and everyone else was up here. Should have known… By the way, Neuro did a great job. Bush did a horrible job, but we all knew that was going to be.
In fact the reason he ‘delayed’ the speech so he could move the troops and it be another ‘I beat the Congress’ moment for him. YUK>
Patriot missile batteries are for missiles.
Not Iranian missiles.
We’re being prepared for a black flag op.
There will either be an “accident” where a missile appears to have been fired by Iran, and a Patriot is fired in response, or there will be a missile fired by Israel, which will be mistaken by the Patriot missile battery as an Iranian missile.
We are now in a full-blown Constitutional crisis. There are no ifs-or-buts. Our country has been hijacked and is being flown into the dust of what could be an independent Kurdistan.
Looks like Teddy scared the Dems. Just not in the right way. **sigh**
TeddySanFran @ 42
Junya’s “Plan” has been constructed to primarily provide 2 things:
1. A perception of political cover.
2. And as your point highlights, blameshifting.
The Karl Rove meme is “I anteed up, but the Democrats/Iraqis folded”.
Junya, Deadeye and Karl with their faux-Texas roots have foolishly convinced themselves that history will perceive them as taking that “last heroic stand at the Alamo”.
Instead, the overwhelming majority of sentinent folks will see this as Junya’s “General Custer” moment.
You know, you could take the rawest, lowliest bootcamp recruit and even that antithesis of military genius would never, ever be dumb enough to crawl out of his foxhole and say charge.
General Custer and Junya, dumb and dumber!
TeddySanFran @ 255
Reilly Obaba?
rumi @ 251
Are they effective to use against various types of surface to air missiles?
Umm, no. At least, not to my knowledge. The radar systems used are pretty much for finding incoming missiles, and the air speed of surface-to-air missiles is about that of the Patriot, so the Patriot would just be chasing something just as fast as it, so it wouldn’t necessarily gain any ground.
Nope, this is about countering a retaliation from Iran for attacking them….
The delivery sucked. He looked drugged and tied to a chair. WTF?
RevDeb @ 260
I was trolling around Redstate/Townhall before. They’re jazzed about lifting the restrictions, meaning they’re glad that there will be more killing, because thats what has been making us lose.
that and the culture of San Francisco.
Obama: “not persuaded”
“actively oppose the President’s proposal”
“variety of options to place some conditions on Iraq’s government”
KO asking about Iran
Obama calls Iran and Syria regimes “odious”
Obama now …
KO asks about Iran and Syria – did
Obama – there’s nothing wrong with us as a part of a broader strategy to assure that Iran is not engaged in mischief
Ok Kiddo …looks like Obama won’t oppose a war on Iran
Richmond @ 256
Tweety and KO seems surprised by the Iran part; you may be right.
TeddySanFran @ 254
The base is not going to even understand what the hell he was talking about. Hell, he didn’t even understood what he just said.
I was watching Bush’s speech tonight, and while watching CNN they connected to a reporter that was in front of the white house. She basically restated the night and then says ‘and as you can hear there are many protesters and they are very angry’…did anyone get a transcript to that?
The reason I am posting is that while I was watching this CNN reporter, she even aknowledged the croud of protesters, and not ONE SECOND did they show a picture of the crowd. After all these years, when they just said ‘protesters were present against Bush’, they are now giving us audio, but that’s all. If CNN showed pictures or *gasp* video of the protesters…the American public might feel encouraged to protest themselves…can anyone give me one good reason why there shouldn’t have been a clip of the protesters??
Crazy speech tonight…and then to have my news edited for me…
Iran’s biggest friend in Iraq is SCIRI’s Abdul Aziz al Hakim, you know Bush’s new buddy whom he met with a few weeks ago.
So let’s see Bush takes responsibility for what been going on Iraq except it’s really Syria’s and Iran’s fault. I still have no idea how this ties in with a Sunni insurgency but logic and coherence are so pre-Iraq.
Sen Thune says Iraqis will surge along with us and will put their own money in the effort $10B (figuring out oil distribution)
j
Webb – tend to look at microcosm when repercussions whole area.
Iraqi gov very fragile and may not be able to control events as the benchmarks
Odom and Trainer up now
Trainer disappointed. no new direction
The clock is ticking. Iran is next and Bush only has so much time, after all.
If we start in on Iran, what will be the reaction of Russia and China?
Another night to sleep tight. Compliments of Bush.
urban pirate @ 267
He was referring to the senators, not the riffraff. I can’t see how this changes how the repug senators up for reelection are skeered of losing their seats in 08.
Richmond @ 256
I don’t know, but it sure didn’t look like he did… stiff, wooden, reading.
Obama: 51 votes that this is a bad policy.
“I know nobody in Congress who’s going to strand troops in Iraq.”
this guy needs a lesson about their framing, and not using it.
raven @ 257
I’m not sure that any defense will be adequate when fire is coming from all sides.
The neofuckingcons have won again and succeeded in writing death warrants by the score.
The interests that have pushed for war with Iran own this next phase.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 277
Good point, that one. Rapture Revolution much!
Rayne # 115
“My counsel about waiting for investigations is hereby withdrawn. We must now impeach Bush and remove him from office, as well as his VP.
Indeed – let’s do it people – Impeach Bush and Cheney without further delay.”
Nancy Pelosi for President 2007!
The country cannot afford to waste another nano-second.
Russia will be really really pissed and behave accordingly. China will say its pissed (it has an oil deal going on with China now) but it may also secretly welcome the prospect of a major US embarassment there too.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 277
Odom – Bush says US and Iraq against enemies when in fact there are several wars going on here. Doesn’t think Bush understands the nature of the war.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 276
They will make a lot of money selling arms and laughing at us while we go bankrupt.
“I don’t care if this is a Republican or Democratic problem.”
“I am happy to take responsibility crafting a solution”
Agreed, I was just saying we would need or use patriots against SAM’s.
I’m not sure that any defense will be adequate when firs is coming from all sides.
The neofuckingcons have won again and succeeded in writing death warrants by the score.
RevDeb @ 278
Oh. I can’t imagine that for one minute. This war is radioactive at this point.
OK Kiddo — Russia has been negotiating for quite some time with Iran about nuclear energy (not WMD). They have a lot of sunk costs into this effort. They also want to lock down the entire natural gas market in Eurasia, and Iran has the second largest natural gas reserves.
This is NOT just about Iran. This is NOT just about WMD.
This is about a global energy war.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 277
If it makes you sleep any better, the Iran card could well be an attempt to reignite fear, as well as a nod to the base.
I don’t see it happening. I see posturing.
Did I hear it right? He will now allow the troops to
kick ingo door to door to instill the confidence of the people?How the fuck is THAT supposed to work?
I smell $3.00 at the pumps by Monday. One last push before impeachment.
Blub @ 284
Wait until they decide to bomb the reactor at Bushehr and kill some Russian civilian technicians working there….
rumi @ 281
I don’t see 21,500 troops adding that much to the killing that is already taking place. Except for maybe the killing of the 21,500 troops.
I don’t care for Obama.
Shock and Awe, Shock and Awe.
My main complaint about this invasion before it happened was something like “We’re supposed to trust these guys after Saddam is toppled?”
Yep, armed and trained. By the US. Reminds me of something… starts with an AFGHanistan. And I’m a well known optimist. To my friends, that is.
Nuance
OldCoastie @ 295
OldCoastie @ 296
My wife didn’t either…I couldn’t even watch, I am not impressed. I wish I was don’t get me wrong.
ccmask @ 293
But, but, it was at $1.98 today in MN! Oh, and I was so happy…
Chimpeach the Leech
Sonoma Rus @ 291
I dunno, but it might look a lot like ethnic “cleansing”.
I don’t care much for Obama either but I did like that he did mention the obligation to the Iraqi people to help clean up our mess since we started it.
Obama AIN’T my guy in 08. Still trying to play the non-partisan game. The time for non-partisanship is long over.
Odom laughed at Jose Suarez JS said 20k lots in baghdad – Odom said 20k against Millions? not a good match
Bernard Trainor – can forces achieve anything? don’t have a mission – just to secure a region. Bush lot of rhetoric onus on Iraqis.
NoahD @ 299
Better he is exposed as an empty suit now than later.
OldCoastie @ 296
Doesn’t do it for me, either. Too bland.
Patriot batteries. The fuckers are going to hit inside Iran and Syria. Shoot down any air assets they send to see whats going on, claim the Iranians fired on us while we were interdicting flow of arms to Iraq.
$2.39 here Balrog.
Obama versus Hilly – I would take Obama in a flash. I will never vote for HIllary.
That’s a better plan than the one he’s got now.
jeffreyw @ 307
Obama gives me that dizzy feeling when I listen to him talk – which usually indicates to me that something ain’t right…
montag @ 266
Umm, no. At least, not to my knowledge. The radar systems used are pretty much for finding incoming missiles, and the air speed of surface-to-air missiles is about that of the Patriot, so the Patriot would just be chasing something just as fast as it, so it wouldn’t necessarily gain any ground.
Nope, this is about countering a retaliation from Iran for attacking them….
But that doesn’t make sense. All Iran has to do is to keep the insurgents supplied. They don’t need to attack in any obvious manner. There’s not even a fraction of troops needed to secure the borders from insurgent resupply efforts. Maybe they’re for that little country a few countries over.
An attack on Iran of any magnitude would send oil to over $100/bbl and probably throw the world economy into recession. It would be incredibly stupid. I’m not saying it would happen but these people are incredibly stupid.
Please close your tags folks. We’ve had almost 300 comments in 45 minutes and closing your tags just takes time away from keeping the trolls away. Thanks.
each Aircraft carrier carries about five dozen HARM missiles for destroying the controls of enemy SAMs (surface-to-air missiles). The F-16s in Kuwait and other places in the Gulf also carry these in base inventory. A plane flies close to a – oh, lets just say Iranian – missile site. The site turns on their radar. Another plane shoots the HARM at the radar. Between when the HARM is launched and it hits, the Iranian SAM is launched. When the HARM hits, the IRANIAN SAM loses its primary brain if it is more than a mile from the decoy fighter.
We’d probably need about 400 or more HARMs to destroy the Iranian SAM shield effectively. we used more than that on Saddam in the first Gulf War.
I agree with the “black op” scenario probabilty, but I’m concerned the reference to “patriot missiles” was either not in the speech text – Bush probably easily gets them dang missiles confused – or as another warning to the Iranians.
servers holding up nicely with heavy traffic. Bodes well for FDL with Fitzmas coming and all.
The UK just announced the withdrawl of more troops today too…..
Lonesome Joe and Baghdad Bush are rushing troops into the Alamo…..
-GSD
sorry – Ray Suarez, PBS
OldCoastie @ 312
For me, my eyes start glazing over.
Deviated from text? I don’t know but here is the released text.
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..peech.html
Suzanne (303) — Obama used the Pottery Barn Rule?
Agh.
He’s toast. He’s not going to survive the primary.
Wow – haven’t read this thread yet… just pulled myself away from the TV. But it looks like we have a strategy to shut down the Ho Chi Min trail.
Just called the comment line.
the young man said they got a lot of similar calls. He sounded very tired.
MSNBC’s LIVE VOTE on bush’s escalation is giving bush 32% support – get over there and vote, goddamnit!
Great live blogging with the pups! You all keep me sane (a little), thank you.
Rayne, I was paraphrasing but, essentially, yeah, pottery barn rule was what i heard. can’t remember verbitum but it was almost as if there was a moral obligation implied
Sonoma Rus … precisely …
more troops to kick in more doors will sure make everyone love us and forget the occupation …
I just left this message for Dick Durbin”
I am opposed to the surge in Iraq. But I am sick of hearing that the people of Iraq need to take over. They did not ask to be invaded. It is not their fault if this is not working. Why are we asking the people of Iraq what they want and need. Not our puppet government but the PEOPLE.
RevDeb @ 317
what’s this about Fitzmas…do I not have something on my calendar (worried)
rumi @ 313
It makes sense for us to anticipate a retaliation, though. Huh?
Jeez, David Brooks has bailed. Iraqi society caught in maelstrom and can’t control anything. this is an american operation. Mark Shields quotes Webb and Trainor that no peace with am troops on the ground.
Impeach before he kills again.
Balrog @ 300
I’m gettin’ gassed up tomorrow.
Tim Russert and Tweety talking about the war pisses me off. If it weren’t for them, we never would have gone. All those Sundays Russert had on Condi and Cheney in the big push for war. These guys are the lowest of the low.
tryggth (323) — we are still paying more than 3 decades later for Dubya’s TANG AWOL.
Had he actually shipped out, we probably wouldn’t be reliving Vietnam to satisfy that yet-unfulfilled destiny of his to serve there.
I take a break and there are 329 comments? Good work people. Did neuro liveblog?
Bush taking a punch at Iran is worse than Macarthur pissing in the Yalu and getting 500,000 Chinese into the war. At least Mac had secured the country before he lost it again. Fredo can’t even do that.
Publicus @ 333
Nutshell.
ccmask @ 309
$2.69 here in Portland OR. But then, we’re very Blue, and haven’t minded our manners very well when the Chimp or Deadeye came to town..
For the love of humanity, can somebody please stop this madman. I dread the day I wake up to read that he’s nuked Iran. I dread it because I know it will come if nothing is done to stop him. He doesn’t care who controls the Congress, to him Congress is irrelevant. He believes he has the power to do anything he wants. He has control of the nukes. Isn’t being a dangerous lunatic enough to justify impeachment?
Peter jennings pointed out that the speech took place in the same room Carter used during the Iranian hostage crisis…
MSNBC live vote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16552198/
no, brooks back on the kool-ade – Bush’s plan the only plan on the table – probably won’t work but nothing else to do.
WTF
Oklahoma kiddo @ 277
I will after polishing off this bottle of wine. The only way I can get through any of Shrub’s speeches anymore.
Russ on cspan, is that live or rerun?
Blub @ 342
Umm. how?
Balrog @ 294
I disagree. This will make Fallujah look like a small mistake instead of the war crime that it was. What other expedient, safer way to clear SUSPECTED insurgents, otherwise known as civilians, than by intensive shock and awe bombing campaigns.
Boners are springing up all over neo-conland. The prospects of American troops engaging in total war, unfettered by any concerns about restraints must be like a mass induced elixir.
This will unravel quickly friends.
-GSD
Mark Shields saying those against the war have been proven right on so many counts.
Thomas C @ 324
Link HERE
Rayne @ 262
Is it Howard Baker time?
KO pointing that this is now openended in Iran …as well as Iraq
RevDeb @
317
Is that a reference to ‘Time Bandits’? Cleese as ‘Hood’?
Mary McCurnin @ 329
Me, too. Sick of these Dems blaming the Iraqis like “We are just so tired of this war we fucking enabled. How ungrateful, these brown people.”
egregious @ 337
Yes. Previous thread (and a fine job he did).
Suzanne (327) — Obama doesn’t get it.
There is no fixing it. We lost the war by November of 2003, when we had not already fixed damaged key infrastructure and begun to pull back.
Anything WE fix will be unfixed. They have to fix their land themselves — although we should help finance.
Bush.
What fucking crap.
President FUBAR.
_
NoahD @ 330
Not to worry. It isn’t a specific date, just our way of saying we are looking forward to the beginning of the Libby trial with Patrick Fitzgerald going all out for truth, justice, and the American way.
MelodyMaker @ 334
I’m getting gassed up tonight. Only way to deal with this shit… ;)
egregious – Neuro did liveblog, but he did it on the last thread. I wondered why so few people were chiming in. Never seen it done better. He claims that it was his note taking in lawschool that made him such a good note taker…
latest on the msnbc poll:
Yes. The United States can still win this thing militarily; a sizable increase in troop strength, and help from the Iraqis, will turn the tide
33%
No. Define “win.” After nearly four years, neither our country nor Iraq is better off. More troops going out means more body bags coming back.
67%
MSNBC Poll No 67% over 32k voting
Siun @ 343
I voted!
GSD @ 349
Oh, god, that was good! Bill Kristol is probably going to pay a special visit to his dominatrix tonight.
Kathryn in MA @ 344
The Kerry and Levin Amendments earlier this year both called for a phased pullout. I call that a plan, maybe just not the one that “I get my talking points from the White House instead of using my own brain” Brooks wants to hear.
demonstrations on MSNBC
or at least you can hear them …
Chip Reed is reporting that the Dems in the House have stated that if president does not respond to their non-binding anti-escalation resolution they are prepared to move to withhold funds..
I just want to express my gratitude that George W. Bush continues to keep the paralympic movement alive by giving so many people around the world the opportunity to compete in the paralympics. Not since Slobodan Milosevic has one man done so much for our games. I think the U.S. may give Bosnia a run for the gold in Beijing 2008 in sitting volleyball. Keep up the good work. We always need more athletes. USA #1!
I am linking a film I made on my mac during the run up to this war of choice. It was filmed in 2002 all around the world and ends in Egypt in October at the great pyramids of Giza where the USA sitting volleyball team ended up sharing a bus with the Iraqi disabled volleyball team. I sometimes wonder if the athletes we competed against are still alive.
Peace,
P
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AmSrB-EHn78
rayne, what i liked about what obama said were the words “we started it”.
Bang a gong Cindy
Bush’s speech is the kind Joe McCarthy would have given more than fifty years ago. It’s a speech any John Bircher would have given in the early sixties. It’s a speech that makes Jesse Helms look like a moderate. There was no attempt whatsoever to take a bipartisan tone. A complete disaster as a speech.
David Gregory having to talk over the protesters!
David gregory live at the White House now
Lots of protesters can be heard in the background!
yes, I certainly did, documented on a few boards, long before the war in Iraq began I was telling everyone this was the most inept decision anyone could make
I said then, you don’t voluntarily devide your own forces, I said it was war 101 and anyone suggesting this was a good idea had absolutely no military clue
I said before this war there was no military expert that would suggest this was a good idea, I said we were not even close to being finished in Afghanistan and the worst thing we could do would be diverting the resources necessary
before clark said it, I said this would help the terrorists recruit, I said it would turn the good will America enjoyed because of the attack against us would be lost and turned into a vile hatred
I said attacking unprovoked would make it harder to recruit, I said it would stretch our military too thin
I missed only one thing
I predicted the presidents action would get him thrown from office in his first term
the last thing I thought would happen would be a congress that saw all the damage and allowed it to happen
except for the removal from office, every one of my predictions were not only correct, we find out since then those predictions were also fore warned by the president’s own aids, advisor’s, heads of the military and all strategists
the only people that wanted to go ahead with this insane plan were members of the sick fraternity determined to steal Iraq’s treasure and the treasure of the middle class in America, the maniacs in the pnac
no, this is not a surprise, it was all predicted, not only by some of us outside of government, but all American military strategists
now, Nancy has to put her money where her mouth is
the president acted without the approval of congress
she said that impeachment was off the table
she has to right now, today, put it on the table
she has to march into republican senators, those that intend on keeping their office, and she has to make a deal
we cannot wait for 08
we have the negotiating ability to get things done right now and if we wait for 08 we waited too long
is the congress obsolete?
right now it is and until Nancy does something to make congress relevant again we do not have a Jeffersonian democracy we have a dictator
Nancy, the time is now at hand, you were elected and brought into office for a reason, you have a bill to pay and a debt to your constitution
that debt is called today
GrandmaJ @ 361
One of the drawbacks of having more threads, more frequently.
montag @ 330
I have no doubt that the neocon madmen will push Bush to instigate something that requires a retaliation from Iran. This is the ultimate goal, the Endgame, the chance of their lifetime and the opportunity to claim Firstfruit offering in thanks of the birthpangs of a new Middle East.
From Mirriam -Webster on-lne dictionary:
Insanity
One entry found for insanity.
Main Entry: insanity
Pronunciation: in-’sa-n&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 : a deranged state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder (as schizophrenia)
2 : such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility
3 a : extreme folly or unreasonableness b : something utterly foolish or unreasonable
It’s official, the President of the Unted States of America is insane.
rumi @ 376
From Think Progress:
Siun @ 328
This has worked so well in the past. Russia. Germany.
Tweety is suddenly making sense, now.
“A lotta people are going to go to bed tonight terrified.”
From Mirriam-Webster on-line dictionary:
Insanity
One entry found for insanity.
Main Entry: insanity
Pronunciation: in-’sa-n&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 : a deranged state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder (as schizophrenia)
2 : such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility
3 a : extreme folly or unreasonableness b : something utterly foolish or unreasonable
It’s official, the President of the United States of America is insane.
Balrog @
360
I’m in MN too. Haven’t seen 1.97 for a while. I didn’t do any drinking games for the SPEECH, but I don’t need any more excuses for imbibing.
That’s what drives me nuts, he can really bring up some good stuff from time-to-time.
mandrake @ 380
TeddySanFran @ 195
I got a recorded announcement saying the office was closed and to call back between 9am and 5pm weekdays.
378 and 379 are close for me. revdeb’s note about Iran and nukes, and the comment about insanity. That pretty much sums up my struggle right now. Probably sanity is highly overrated.
Altho loss of Constitutional rights in a way which might be permanent weighs on my mind as well.
Sigh. Need to disengage and let other more mentally healthy people wrestle with these things.
With love,
Your canary
Arianna on Joe S. along with the other usual suspects.
Arianna up on MSNBC – Scarborough – live.
rumi @ 377
Just wanted to add something I forgot–Israel has its own Patriot batteries, several of them. We left some for them after the Gulf War, were given some more after the war, then they bought some, too. All have been upgraded to the latest model (MAC3 ??) improvement, so, no, that wouldn’t be the reason for sending them.
Nah, this is really about counter-planning on something to do with Iran. Syria has a few SCUDs, but, I doubt they want to get involved. They like Damascus just as it is.
egregious @ 359
Okay I was worried I had totally missed that they had set a date for the trial. We celebrated Fitzmas the first time libby got indited…very good night that was :D
Talk about poor framing!
Yes, Bush has caused the deaths of 655,000 innocent Iraqis and has declared his intent destroy our Constitutional government and trample our individual liberties, but I can’t but help thinking that the way he said it made it sound bad.
I think Bush is fully prepared to defy the entire nation, citing his Unitary Unfettered CIC power. Fuck Congress and the War Powers Act (and anything else they might pass to try to restrain him), fuck the people.
You just watch. He’s mad.
_
RevDeb @ 379
Oh, sweet Jesus. These people are mad.
Ed*ard Teller @ 316
HARMs are reactive targeting. The US military prefers to neutralize the elements of an Integrated Air Defense System (i.e. a country’s air defense) as soon as possible, to enable air superiority. SAM batteries tend to be high on the list … and if they can be identified via intelligence beforehand, will be hit by GBU-guided bombs or other stand-off missiles.
HARMs are for targeting if a SAM’s radar becomes active and could threaten aircraft, so they’re not pre-planned.
Just some background …
Pat Buchanan saying Sam Brownback is smart to be taking an antiwar position at this point, that it will look good from the vantage point of 2008.
Pat and I agree. Imagine that.
I watched Dr. Stangelove again the other eve and found it strangely “innocent”- maybe it had more of an impact at the time, or am I missing something? The present evil is… evil… words fail.
William Kristol is scheduled to be on Charlie Rose tonight, I believe, along with Ken Duberstein, for anyone who can take it long enough to find out what our shadow government’s spin on the conman’s speech is.
montag @ 393
Oh, sweet Jesus. These people are mad.
welcome to my world
NoahD @ 389
Trial scheduled to start on the 17th with Jury selection. Jane. Christy, Marcy and others got a press pass from Arianna and will be covering it live for us. FITZMAS is coming!
And not a moment too soon.
raven @ 383
I think he’s been lurking too much. He seems genuinely scared and he acts like he finally gets it.
NoahD @ 390
Trial date is January 16th, 2007.
He’s been railing against the war for quite some time. . .as has the hated Imus.
I think he’s been lurking too much. He seems genuinely scared and he acts like he finally gets it.
Valley Girl @ 396
It is satire, after all. But, Gen. Jack D. Ripper isn’t crazy enough for ya? :)
Valley Girl @ 395
I’ve been thinking about the Manchurian Candidate only without the brainwashed candidate being killed. Instead, he got “elected.”
Oh, woopie, Scarborough, lovely that Durbin sounds “Republican,” with a straight face, like that’s a good thing.
Suzanne (370) — at least Obama is frank and definite in saying we started it.
It just won’t be enough. Might be if he grew some moxie in a hurry and demanded a new AUMF or a revision to the AUMF.
Or 17th. I defer to RevDeb.
raven @ 402
Maybe it’s the rubbing elbows with KO . . .
A couple points:
To my cynical eyes, Junya’s “Plan” is not about how to “win” in Iraq.
Instead it is how to frame the debate into sides of “Losers” and “Not-losers”.
The “adults” in the Repug party (I agree, these days they are few and far between) know full well that “winning” as long defined by Junya and crew is not possible. Hence the typical Rovian idea is to define who are the Losers. And Karl says that’s the Democrats and the Iraqi Government.
Junya and crew callously and indifferently are raising the ante simply because the chips don’t cost them any skin off their own asses. When the chips fall, the blood is always someone else’s. When it don’t cost you anything, you’ll always up the ante.
The faux bi-partisan congressional Iraq strategy group headed by Joe4Joe Liarman is a bald-faced attempt to woo Joe into voting for a Repug majority in the Senate. Joe4Joe, come on over to our side and we’ll shower you with more than kisses. The Repugs aren’t holding their breath that Joe4Joe will immediately jump ship, but they do believe that he’ll play coy and mind-fuck the Democrats continously for the next 2 years.
This man — and Cheney — should be deposed and arrested before they set the entire planet aflame.
_
The Madness of King George comes to mind right now.
montag @ 403
He basically represents the mentality of the neocon cabal.
I am increasingly aware of evil in this situation.
Please God—help us.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 410
That too.
montag @ 403
It was satire . . . but now, in the present reality, not so much.
What a gift…
Sadly though – and truly its sad – we go to war with the commander in chief we have, not the commander in chief we want.
Eureka @ 411..Over all, England did pretty well when George III was king. The same will never be said of G.W. Bush.
BobbyG @ 392
Bush has shown time and again that our imaginations aren’t sufficient to predict the extent of the transgressions and horrors his madness can bring about.
I would love to get John Dean’s take on chimpy’s speech.
We go to war because of the commander in chief we have.
So who are the other dem traitors who’ve agreed to join the Shrub-Lieberman consultation group? Any?
Oww, “surge” getting the smackdown on Scarborough!
Michael Crowley on JoeScar has a good point. 14 mos. ago when Murtha came out for withdrawal the repigs forced a phony vote on “supporting the troops” that flummoxed the dems. Now the tables are turned and the Kennedy bill can force the repigs to be on record as supporting this madness.
I say we bill the son of a bitch for his folly. Simply tax the Bush clan into poverty..we’ll take that fucking ranch as a down payment
montag @ 388
Yeah, I was slipping into snark there with that part. From a serious point, where would the missiles come from and be headed that would make the Patriots valuable? Iran is just one country that is scheduled for regime change. I would say that if Iran feels the need to launch a Scud type missile then they’ll go for something else that would either be more effective in immediacy or more effective by lower profile.
Just another quick thought to express here in that some of my comments are like thinking out loud. If I disagree on a point here, that’s all it is, a minor point to think about in different ways. When it comes to a more extensive knowledge and experience of others’ in regard to specifics, I appreciate and respect that.
I’m just trying to understand and anticipate the twisted thinking of the dangerous people running our country.
The historical analogy that just hit me is Hitler and Stalingrad.
Arianna reminding us that Brownback is running for president, makes me wonder again–I raised the question earlier–what are Romney, Guiliani or other possible pres. candidates saying about this? I have not heard.
I don’t think that this is God’s problem, though I do often ask for help and forgiveness for the evil that is being done in my name…
This is our problem and we must solve it… we do have the power to change this if we really want to. This does not require divine intervention but citizen action and a remembrance of and adherence to humanitarianism and justice.
montag @ 402
Actually, Keenan Wynn as Colonel “Bat” Guano was the scariest in my recent viewing, bec. he seemed all too real- the others were caricatures, but Col. Bat Guano resonated. Alas.
*xyz @ 10
cui bono.
check the details, because historians certainly will.
IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH! WHY IS ANYONE EVEN LISTENING TO THIS IMBECILE ANY LONGER? HE IS INCAPABLE OF THOUGHT, INSIGHT, OR VISION. SCRUTINIZING HIS STATEMENTS IS ABSOLUTELY ABSURD. HE HAS NO BRAIN. PERIOD. IN 200O HE DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE IRAQ WAS ON THE MAP. ITS HISTORY,CULTURE, ETHNIC COMPOSITION.
I CANNOT THINK OF A WORSE NIGHTMARE THAN HIS CONSIDERING HIMSELF AS OUR DECIDER OR THE LEADER OF ANYTHING.
STOP BUSH. IMPEACH HIM.
neurophius @ 426
Rudy and Willard are supporting the escalation.
Hillary says NOOO
And the result of this latest con:
From:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..38347.html
breaking on msnbc: Hill cannot support an escalation…
whoopee, thanks so much Hill. Too little, too late.
ceci @ 431 there might be the votes to impeach in the House but there aren’t the votes in the Senate to convict and remove from office.
Breaking:
Hillary is not supporting the escalation. Whoppee. Finger in the wind blows away from the CiC.
Hmmm. The MSNBC vote was at 37,400 votes when I voted a half-hour or so ago, and stood at 33/67. Now it’s at 56,700 votes, and still at 33/67. Hmmm.
I’m not depressed enough tonight. I’m gonna go watch the last 2 episodes of Season 3 of “The Wire” on the DVD I just bought.
I suppose, in the aggregate, we deserve the annihilation we deserve as the intractably morally primitive, nihilistic species we predominantly are.
_
ceci @ 431
The fact that we’ve already had an hour’s worth of TV analysis on what he said, which he himself did not even understand, is telling.
Oh, Hillary just said “no” to the surge. I guess I’m supposed to get excited or something.
Hillary releases statement saying she won’t support surge.
Hillary comes out against escalation
Hmmm,I’m kind of surprised
Steve @ 435
yet.
RevDeb @ 432
Thanks, Revdeb. Well, that makes Sam’s gambit even more interesting.
Screw Hillary.
oregondave @ 437
That’s kind of how it works. When there are a significant number of votes the percentage rarely changes even when a large number is added. It will pretty much stay there. I don’t think the freepers have the clout they used to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAK7t3Lf8s
This is the “Bat” Guano scene from Dr. Strangelove. Worth a watch.
mandrake @ 440
Well, actually, maybe I should. I mean, considering the source. Hmmmm.
Sorry I didn’t make it to the chimp speech party for some liveblogging action. Parents are visiting and had to tend to them.
Anyone have an online link to Sen. Clinton’s statement?
Does anyone else recall that vast network of tunnels and bunkers that provide a whole ‘nuther city below Baghdad? We sure haven’t heard much about that in the past couple of years.
As angie said in re Hillary, to little to late. It should help others make the move.
Yeah, looks like Hillary’s a little late coming to the party. She must have figured out what way the wind was blowing. Before the President’s speech, Matthews was talking to Mike Barnacle about “Where is Hillary!” “Not to be found–in hiding.” What does it mean? To me it means she’s not a leader. Period.
I still intend to hold HRC’s feet to the fire on Iraq.
twolf1 @ 449
But you are back for the next zero.*g*
Mary McCurnin @ 445
Can’t make me!
Bush keeps moving the deadlines and criteria for success … the Dems keep running to keep up with him instead of just saying game over.
So now they debate ’surge’ as if that is a debate to have rather than dealing with the fundamental evil of this war.
And they continue to allow him to set the terms of the discussion rather than demanding that *our* terms get met.
Engel on MSNBC talking about the Madhi army – Larry Johnson explains why this is stupid.
Watched the Clusterfuck speech–Here’s the summary:
We are in the process of losing this war- and if we lose it, civilization as we know it will collapse- so I am sending three dozen pea shooters to Iraq to save the situation.”
Mary McCurnin @ 445
Do I hear any volunteers…No?
Steve @ 436
this is just not true, we can gain the votes in the senate as well
the democrats have to deal AND WE CAN DEAL
LOOK, this is NOT about 08, this is about TODAY
we can get votes for impeachment if we deal
we have to guarantee no democrat supported in the next election doe those that join us to get this madman out of office, we have to guarantee some pok
WE CAN GET THIS DONE
the republicans are LIVID with bush and ALL they need is some insurance they can keep their seat
they think if they stand together they stand a better chance
we can change their minds, we can show them their chances of keeping their seat lies with dealing
it’s the republicans that have to march into the president’s office and tell him he has to resign
there are republicans that will be persuaded, and there will be some HAPPY to go into his office and say to this bouykin
YOU’RE OUTA THERE
palosi HAS to deal for this, she has to
neurophius @ 449
Not yet, but it is plastered on the bottom of the screen on MSNBC in the “Breaking” box.
It should be up on Think Progress any time now I would think.
Mad Dogs @ 460
Not with Cheney’s *ick and me pushin’
One of my friends described the delivery tonight as ‘Animatronic’.
We need these guys out of the WH now.
‘George, this is the American People calling. You’re fired,and so is Dick. We’ve called the locksmiths. You have two weeks to vacate the housing, starting from the end of that non-speech.’
Mary McCurnin @ 445
Oklahoma kiddo @ 456
Okay. If somebody has to I will.
The two reporters on teevee from Iraq that I have grown to trust are Michael Ware and Arwa Damon from msnbc– Richard Engel, not so much.
In print– there are lots– starting with Dahr Jamail.
Siun @ 456
Precisely.
I’ll bet that Murtha will bring it back when he gets a chance.
rwcole @
Thanks for brightening my day, RW. I haven’t laughed so hard all day! It is funny, although in a tragic sort of way.
Hillary. The consummate pol. I’m not going to let up one iota.
Lieberman applauds Bush strategy.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Sen….._0110.html
Siun @ 457
Exactly, Siun.
What we need is an amendment to the Constitution calling for a vote of confidence. Then the entire administration changes and the other party takes over. Lord knows we couldn’t possibly stand Cheney.
Siun @ 457
Yes. You put it very well. Worth expanding in a post, even.
raven @ 126
the knesset?
Now I would think that if we were all gonna die if Iraq fails- and if additional troops would make a difference- then sane people would be sending at least 100,000 and raising taxes to pay for the damn thing- but NO we’re sending the equivelent of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir-
How does this fucker think anyone can take him seriously? Fuckin STUPID!
It’ll be harder to get rid of Lieberman than it will be to get rid of Dubbya.
Do they think that Lieberman can win in 08 as a repug by bringing in part of the Democrats???? WTF is their reasoning?????
perris @ 460
I still support John Dean’s theory of going for the low hanging fruit first and work on up the list. It accomplishes 2 things.
1. It cleans out the bottom rungs so that they can’t come back and haunt us like the Nixonian crooks have.
2. It sets it up in a way that the repigs will be begging us to take Chimpy down just to save their own hides. By the time the lies and corruption are uncovered in all of its ignominy they will do anything to quiet it down.
The current Newsweek has a fascinating article on the backstories of Hagel and McCain and Hagel’s strong opposition to Bush’s Iraq CF. I read the print edition today, should be on the Newsweek.com website. Well worth a read.
Bush was supposedly planning to project a humble persona for his speech tonight. The man can’t do humble…and yet every move he makes cries out for humility.
As for that other “Senator”–LIE…says it all.
The truth is in none of the BushCo crowd. And the sidewinder acknowledgment of mistakes and responsibility was pa-thet-ic….
rwcole @ 475
Amen.
Margot @
352
Be done been that. Hope Congress gets its action horizon down to days, and looks to the beginning of the task instead of the end. Sure it’s uncertain, but they have got to start very soon, because it’s now clear that the obnoxious quote about creating their own reality was aimed right at Congress.
David Ehrenstein @ 476
Lieberman will quickly become irrelevant, isolated and ridiculed by all.
Words of wisdom from Sen. Joe Liarman (CFL-White House) via Raw Story:
“I know there are deep differences of opinion about what the President has proposed tonight. In the coming days and weeks, we should undertake respectful debate and deliberation over this new plan. But, let us also remember that excessive partisan division and rancor at home only weakens our will to prevail in this war.”
Thanks, Joe. We needed that.
Not.
Steve @ 470
Lieberman’s not half the man Hillary is. And that’s either not saying much, or saying way more than we needed to hear.
Mr. John Burns’ hairdo is beginning to look like my brain (on Anderson Cooper).
WILD.
Some of my favorite moments from tonight’s up is down speech
This is a riff on the meme that we are being so successful that we can expect increased casualties.
Boy, you can say that again. In fact, it’s going to look a lot more like defeat.
In the sense that it won’t be a democracy.
So if we leave, we stay. Which means, of course,
So if we stay, we leave.
I remain disapponted in my party over Iraq, and the whole Middle East.
Bush is trying to buy time——with the blood of our sons and daughters——to finish his presidency before we lose in Iraq.
What kind of crap is this, when sending people to senseless deaths actually HELPS your reputation?!
Not so fast. Didn’t you hear the speech? President Low Normal gave him a new post deisgned to create “bipartisan support” for whatever he wants to do.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 482
by all of us, but there are a significant number of powerful Americans who will ensure his future as a “brave and independent thinker and a man of action”
(gotta go barf now) brb!
Jane wrote: I have to say that even as someone who spoke out early and often against the war, even I could not envision what a cocked-up mess it would become.
Nor did I. I was against the war initially because it was a distraction from the war in Afghanistan, which I figured wasn’t going to be an easy one anyway. I had no idea that we would wage the Iraq war so badly, nor that it would be as difficult as it has proved to be.
My objection alone should have been enough for any sensible government, I think, since there clearly was no immediate threat. Of course, we now know there was no threat at all. That they went ahead with it should have been the first warning that things would go very badly, I suppose.
rumi @
425
I kind of doubt that Iran would attack with missiles. They gain much more in the Muslim world by being the innocent victim. But, if the US military is moving Patriot batteries there, they’re planning for worst case–which would be that Iran would retaliate with whatever they have.
But, Iran does have missiles better and longer-ranged than SCUDs, and capable of hitting, say, the larger US bases (they can just barely hit Israel, so Iraq bases would be easy). But, still, one is looking at a payload of about 1400-1500 lbs. max. Not that effective for the relative expense.
That’s part of the reason, though, that we’d move Patriot batteries to Iraq. That’s part of military planning–anticipating response.
I don’t know what to say about the Bushies’ state of mind. What I heard tonight made me think they don’t have any minds left, in the commonly understood sense of the word….
David Ehrenstein @ 489
This issue will swing far more than one Senator can control.. He will be left in the gold digger dust.
It means being so succesful we can expect failure.
rwcole @ 475
Colbert had the answer: send all 300 million of us (except the gays, of course).
David Ehrenstein @ 489
“bipartisan support”:
What you get when a few Rebublicans share a phone booth with the senator from CFL.
angie @ 485
It’s certainly how my brain looks on Anderson Cooper.
Laura Rozen
707, but painfully true at the same time.
Arianna amazes. I have a major crush on her mind.
Cujo359 @ 497
ROTFLMAO! Thanks, I desperately needed that!
Margot @ 498
holy shit
bipartisan support?
An underwire bra.
Plus a hooker, a hustler, and a whole lot of Viagra and Crystal Meth.
montag- OT, but I posted a YouTube earlier- where Lionel Mandrake is trying to get the President on the phone, in a phone booth. Has Bat Guano shoot the Coca-Cola machine for loose change. BG: “If this doesn’t work you’ll have to answer to the Coca-Cola company”. Prescient, I thought.
David Ehrenstein @ 503
Sounds like a Duke Cunningham party.
To surge or not to surge. The only debate about surging should be when to surge into the White House and seize the tyrants there.
RevDeb @ 503
First time I’ve smiled tonight, I think. Thanks, RevDeb.
TRex @ 480
Why? Why? As Bon says – “Its a red herring. Obviously they aren’t telling us the real objective.”
Geez, I left for a few minutes to feed my pets and there must be a hundred more comments to go back and read! But in the meantime, are there any historians out there that can say authoritatively whether any President has broken our armed forces since the civil war as much this one?
A slightly early Late Nite should be up shortly since we’ve got nearly 500 comments on this thread.
I’m warning you, though, it’s a completely neck-whipping change of subject.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 500
She’s great and I agree.
I am with you, MarcLord @ 506!
oregondave @ 438
So, you think the same three people are voting over and over again?
Arriana—made her bones by screaming irrationally for the impeachment of Clinton for a blowjob..go figure.
Jane,
I knew everybody would come to your house in this hour of need. hope you don’t run out of refreshments.
montag @ 491
In rethinking the situation, I’m now more inclined to think that the intel in Iraq anticipates their need right there in Baghdad. There must exist untold ammo dumps underneath Baghdad that have been stockpiled with a wide variety of deadliness. I forget the name right now of the short range missiles that were used by Hezbullah last summer that were said to come from Iran. I’ll bet there’s tons of that type underground.
oregondave @ 495
gee, don’t ya think ALL Americans would suddenly declare themselves gay? Even the fundies?
Now, that would be something to see…!
over 500 posts, still loading fast
great job on the site webmaster
Here is a link to Sen. Clinton statement (CNN.com):
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/
TRex @ 510
Well, it does deal with “consumer advice” so that’s a commonality.
Valley Girl @ 505
Terry Southern was, well, brilliant, in his own special way. That whole speech of Col. “Bat” Guano’s is a marvel, from “deviated prevert” to the “Coca-Cola company.”
egregious @
413
Tried that many times. It’s like calling the Atheist Dial-A-Prayer. You call up and no one answers.
For less negativity, I hit your site tonite. :)
new thread
Commander In Chief Bush wants to splooge 20,000 of his soldiers into Baghdad. Disgusting!
Cujo359 @ 513
It’s at 77,680 and still 33/67. I don’t know what to think. Maybe they’re using Diebold . . .?
OK, I know this is off topic but I have to say it. I’m watching the segment Tancredo did on MSNBC today about the $49 billion border fence. He says he’s coordinated with the border patrol to figure out the areas where there are the most illegal immigrants coming through and he’s proposing ONLY to build his multi-billion dollar boondoogle in segments at those points… areas where there are fewer illegals presently crossing will not be fenced… which of course assumes illegal immigrants are immobile objects…
Question… do rethugs have brains?
Do rethugs have the capacity for cognition.