From the article Iraq Will Be Petraeus’ Knot to Untie in the Washington Post, January 7:
Lt. Gen. David H. Petraeus, who is President Bush’s choice to become the top U.S. military commander in Iraq, posed a riddle during the initial march to Baghdad four years ago that now becomes his own conundrum to solve: “Tell me how this ends.”
That query, uttered repeatedly to a reporter then embedded in Petraeus’s 101st Airborne Division, revealed a flinty skepticism about prospects in Iraq — and the man now asked to forestall a military debacle.
The article does not answer Petraeus’ question; it is only a short bio of the General. We are left to wonder what will happen to Iraq or any number of countries in which the US now finds itself (or its ally) fighting, from Afghanistan and the borders of Pakistan to Gaza to Lebanon to Somalia. Somalia is just the latest recipient of the Bush policy that claims the US has a unilateral right to use military force in any nation in which it finds persons we regard as “terrorists.” But Petraeus’ riddle is perhaps the most important issue facing the country as the President announces his plans to escalate the Iraq war.
I doubt that the President understands this question. As best I can tell, the President and his “national security team,” seem to be preoccupied with not losing a war they started, especially not during Bush’s term. They still believe, or at least claim to believe, that they can still “win” their war. But that belief seems be based on the non sequitur that since the consequences of losing are unthinkable to them, winning is the only option. As McCain put it, “It’s just so hard for me to contemplate failure that I can’t make the next step.” McCain repeated the argument for WaPo and before AEI, and AEI’s Frederick Kagan added his own fears about the consequences of failure on CSPAN’s Washington Journal. Henry Kissinger, who helped Nixon deny that we lost the Viet Nam war, and left that unhappy result for President Ford, is the current President’s model for how to leave a losing hand to the hapless sap that follows you.
I have been struggling with a similar question ever since I watched the twin towers in flames and heard the instant analysis that we had been attacked by an extremist Islamic group called al-Qaeda. Beyond the horrors of death and destruction, all I could think of was, “we have become the Middle East. We will be just like the Israelis and the Palestinans, locked in the cycle of hatred, revenge and counter revenge, with no clear vision of how we get out of that cycle. And our leaders will not see this until it is too late.”
I knew then that our President and the people around him were unlikely to understand what was about to happen to the country in the absence of an extraordinary and unprecedented alternative vision. If anyone was articulating such a vision, they could not be heard over the President’s bullhorn and chest thumping. We would invade Afghanistan in months, and Iraq a year after that.
The absence of an alternative vision not based on unilateral military intervention continues to drive American foreign policy and represents its most profound failure. It is a lack of imagination far more serious than the inability to forsee hijacked airplanes flying into buildings.
On Sunday night, that failure led US forces to extend the war against Islam to Somalia, not because Somalia lies at some strategic coordinates on the geopolitical map, and certainly not because its people or non-existent government represent any serious threat to Americans or the United States. No, we unleashed a Specter (”Spooky”) gunship, with its awesomely lethal howitzer, cannons and gattling guns, on what was apparently a village at the southern tip of Somalia, because we wanted to kill certain people we claimed were al-Qaeda.
Initial reports indicate that 5-10 people (US claims) or 30 or more (Somali figures) were killed instantly. Within hours, CNN was showing us the pictures of a half dozen men US officials claim are al-Qaeda leaders, but even today there are no confirmed reports that the people we killed were those in the pictures. We just assume we were shooting at the “right” people. That unchallenged disconnect is a consistent pattern.
Just as it did not matter that as many as 20-30 Pakistanis civilians were killed in an effort to kill some al Qaeda leader thought to be meeting in a Pakistani house, it did not matter that there might have been other Somali people killed in this latest attack and now more follow up US attacks, or that some of the victims were probably innocent, or that we were not even technically at war with those we wanted to attack. We did not do this because Congress passed an Authorization to Use Military Force in Somalia.
No, we did it because our President claims we have the right to murder people in other countries if he decides he wants to do so. And we were in apparent violation of Security Council resolutions, which we helped pass, banning the introduction of weapons into Somalia from outside nations. We are an outside nation. In short, we attacked people in another country because we claim we don’t have to obey any laws anywhere — not ours, not theirs, not the UN’s. And that, my friends, is exactly the belief that terrorists everywhere hold.
“Tell me how this ends.” Does it end by the US killing everyone who hates America, or every one the neocons hate? Last I checked, that was moving in the direction of a very large number of Muslims; if so, we are significantly outnumbered. There are a billion or so Muslims who do not share our view that we have the unilateral right to kill them just because members of al Qaeda attacked us. In that context, the notion that sending 20,000 more US troops to help pacify or kill (with an even hand) angry Sunni and Shiite Muslims because they don’t want us in their country seems incredibly obtuse, even suicidal.
In a September 12, 2002 speech he delivered before President Bush spoke to the UN about Iraq, Nobel Peace Prize winner and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan spoke about the need for member nations to strengthen and respect the rule of law. He emphasized the need to create and embrace international institutions and mechanism to further the rule of law, to respect international borders, to avoid unilateral military interventions, and to increase reliance on mechanisms for peaceful resolution of international disputes. We needed international law, he said, not unilateral lawlessness.
I think that is a huge part of the alternative vision to which we turned a blind eye after 9/11, and it is that vision that is sorely missed today. In Iraq, we’ve done just the opposite, and the results have been catastrophic. We have supported the same policies in Palestine and Lebanon, and both countries are on the verge of civil wars. But our President is asking for more without explaining where it ends, why it won’t lead to further disaster.
When the President announces his escalation strategy today, I hope there will be at least some who will ask him, “tell me how this ends. And which vision does it serve?”
UPDATE 1:30 EST: In a Reuters Report, US officials now claim that there have been no additional US air strikes in Somalia since the original Specter gunship attack.
Today’s photo was borrowed from a Christy post, November 21, 2006.
Related posts:
- Pete Hoekstra: US Shouldn’t Close Guantanamo — It’s a “Great Place”
- Cash for Clunkers Ends Monday Night After Triggering 700,000 Sales
- Afghanistan: Mission Creep in Action
- Torture: Obama Heeded Maliki on Abuse Photos, Says McClatchy; What That Says for Our Occupation
- AHIP Ends Truce with Obama, Declares War on Baucus’s Insurance Reforms





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fitz
has a plan for victory
bush has an urge to surge
fitz is more likely to achieve victory
OT, but EPU’d from last thread:
Morning, all….Didn’t know if anyone has posted yet about a Libby pretrial hearing scheduled for today. No linky I could find in the news yet, but stay tuned and we should hear more later this morning.
–
Scarecrow! Thanks for the heavy lifting.
It probably ‘ends’ something like this: http://thumbsnap.com/vf/Rn1rrbiK.jpg
It will end with the Democrats, led by Sen. Biden, jumping off the cliff in a fair approximation of Lemmings.
What a great post. Such good writers here.
As Rumsfeld would say, “golly.”
You perfectly nailed the Israeli analogy. I was thinking about that this morning, and have thought so for some time. The Bush administration, certainly that part lodged in AEI have taken Israel’s condition to be our own. A monumental lack of any sense of proportion, but there it is. In the wake of 911 they were able to sell this nightmare vision to a large swathe of the American public (duct tape, anyone?), but the fear has worn off, and they are down to the irreducible paranoids. Even Ollie North, who for a long time symbolized that paranoia, has jumped ship.
I’m afraid this whole mess will not be cleared up until we clarify our relation with respect to the Palestinians.
Scarecrow, I appreciate your post. Yes, it is sad. Thanks for staying with this topic….
–
Getting nauseous just thinking about the SOTU tonight.
Oh, and Waccamaw, if you’re out there:
Tweety is fair game! I’m going to criticize his hair (or lack thereof) next!
;)
The Somalia war has been scaring the crap out of me. So I guess this proxy war is no longer totally proxy with the entry of US warships. I was talking about this with someone else, and we noticed there was nothing on tv and very little to be found on what seems like a terrible escalation of Bush’s war.
I also noticed the other week that the
NYT was referring to the Somalia Islamic government as “The Islamicists.” Whereas more thoughtful seeming articles will call them the “Islamic Courts Union.”
g’ morning, all… coffee?
I just don’t understand how we have the authority or jurisdiction to just kill anyone anywhere…
It will not end well, but ole W figures he’ll be out of office when that day comes. He just wants it to be someone else’s problem.
Mornin’, firepups!
Gotta run to the hardware store and stock up on surge suppressors. ;)
“And on the first point, the President knows what he wants to say. I think you can anticipate, until the moment the President gives a speech, there will be continued discussions around the edges. But the President knows what he wants to say. And, as I indicated, the Middle East for too long has been an area of the world in which there have been two steps backward for every step forward. On a good day, sometimes there’s one step forward, one step backwards. And on a rare day, it’s two steps forward, one step backwards. The President wants to contribute and do everything in his power to an environment which it is steps forward, not backward.
So the President will, when he determines the time is right, have more to say about how to bring about more accountability for security, how to help build institutions that are necessary to develop peace. And when the moment is right, the President will announce that and then you will hear from the President…”
Tony Snow, 2007? No, that’s Ari Fletcher speaking, way back in 2002. I want to be optimistic, but I’ve heard this song-and-dance too many times. If we want peace, we’re going to have to wage a bloody war with the White House for it.
I really don’t think the President gets a fair shake. Nobody gives him any credit for knowing more than anybody else on Earth. This guy is the Second Coming incarnate.
I heard an unbelievable comment on Washington Journal this morning that was also echoed by another caller.
To paraphrase: We were winning in Vietnam and the Democrats cut the funding and that’s why we lost.
58,000 plus American dead, and we were winning.
Good morning everyone. Beautiful, crisp day in New England, so far. Hope yours is the same.
I’d be interested in what your local media are reporting — what’s the country thinking about?
CityGirl — thanks for the heads up on the Libby motion. Looseheadprop and others will likely follow up, probably by tomorrow.
The continued support of AIPAC (alongside the Aspen Institute)in the new Congressional Ethics bill supported by the Dem leadership features importantly in this. How can we disengage (bring a sane end to this nightmare) as long as we have a Middle East country receiving financial support through this means to continue there massive lobbying efforts. Is this why in all this we hear virtually nothing about the likely upcoming Iran nuclear attacks (most likely with OUR nuclear warheads and support ships)?
OT, but I’ve just gotta say oh man, I want front-row tickets to this!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBI…..index.html
mandrake @ 14
I thought Keith Olbermann made a great point one night, about how the “surge” would be a drop in the bucket and worthless in terms of percentages of troops to insurgents or potential insurgents and since we’re not exactly winning hearts and minds . . . I guess we can fill in the blanks.
Scarecrow, I forgot, are you in CT?
the story is at least being reported on the local news while showing a picture of the Stennis…
edit – sorry still sleepin’… the local news story is that the “Dems are bad”…
Mandrake — did you happen to catch AEI/neocon Kagan on Washington Journal yesterday? He criticized Murtha for advocating redeployment with out thinking through the consequences of a US defeat. i.e., Redeployment = defeat.
After recklessless disregarding the predictable consequences of their invasion of Iraq, they’re now the experts on consequences. while everyone else is irresponsible. [scarecrow pounds head on keyboard]
they better ask him how this ends, because it does NOT end with “success”
there is not “success” that anyone can claim even in a best case scenario, we have not given them democracy we’ve given them theocracy
a theocrat believes just what these neo con democrats believe;
the theocrats have to export their form of government to the rest of the world
if they are transporting their form of government that MEANS they have to convert the rest of the world to their religion, THAT’S WHAT IT MEANS
that’s what the theological neo cons try to do here in the states and that’s what the theologicals will do in Muslim countries, it is the very nature of the philosophy and it cannot be avoided
and it doesn’t end there either, we really occupied Iraq because we gave up our air fields in Afghanistan
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT BIN LADEN DEMANDED FROM THE PRESIDENT and that is what he got.
bush wanted something similar in the middle east and I Iraq looked to him like it fit that bill
so the original plan was never to give democracy to Iraq, it was to create an environment where we had a military base in the middle east
it was never to posess the oil it was to controll the oil
so the answer to “how does this end?”
in the vision from the neo cons, it would never end
mui @ 17
Boston area.
OT (via Raw) ~ This looks like a GREAT IDEA:
Scarecrow @ 25
Sorry, bad memory. You know we’ve got a Ned gettogether on Thursday.
And upwards of 3 million Vietnamese. Matlin said the same shit on Imus “we never lost a battle”. Read “They Marched into Sunlight” Bitch.
mandrake @ 16
“Forestall a military debacle”? The only way to “forestall” the debacle is with a freakin’ time machine.
mui @ 27
I think we should have some kind of unofficial foxwoods gathering
South Orange County Democrat @ 13
Wow. That’s a great link, S. Orange County Dem. Thanks.
bin Laden has stated on several occasions that he thought he could bleed the US by drawing the US into many small military events around the world, stating that “I’ll raise the Al Queda flag in another part of the world and the US will rush in with military might, never realizing they are dying the death of a thousand cuts”, or something like that.
Now, Iraq has become an ego thing (not to mention the Halliburton spinoff opportunities).
Two days ago, I viewed rooms for GWBush in the court in the Hague, garden level only. Staff got a chuckle. Who knows?
OldCoastie @
11
Yes please, a steaming mug of black…
and we DO NOT have authority.
We have a terrorist at our helm and need to rid ourselves of him and his enablers
perris @ 30
You know I never been to Foxwoods, because so many people in the New Haven area gamble, and I guess you could say I “disapprove,” not terribly, but . . .
I think I need to sign off and do maintenance on this old machine.
Scarecrow @ 21
I didn’t see that but don’t even get me started on those AEI boobs or ANYBODY who has the nerve to criticize the suggestions of someone who is trying to get us out of the same mess that they themselves got us into!
The most dumbfounding thing of all is that the irony is completely lost on them . . . or they refuse to recognize it because it would spoil their plans to rule the universe, Dr. Evil-style. Honestly, these people need to be locked away before they kill us all.
mui — still trying to figure out how I can go to the Ned event.
mui @ 10
It looks like our favorite Evangelical Christian soldier General Boykin was directing those ops in Somalia according to this Newsweek article. It also looks like Gates isn’t too happy with the Department of Defense moving in on the CIA’s turf and that once Defense Undersecretary for Intelligence Steve Cambone leaves the DOD then Boykin will be asked to leave with him. Thank God for small favors.
The Newsweek article is good read. Recommended.
Sky-Ho @ 32
it’s as if the president was handed bin ladens play book and given instructions to follow every thing bin laden wanted no matter what would happen
every single decision this president has made has been in accordance with the bin laden play book
he took precise intel telling him of an impending attack, he was told where, when, who, how, the weapons, the method, the time frame, the exact targets
he went on vacation
he waited months before exacting revenge for 9/11 from the tali ban even though the attack was planned since the cole
he waited for all parties to evacuate afghanistan before he iniatied response
he attacked Iraq for what came from afghanistan, even though he was infomed it would strengthen bin laden, al qaeda and terrorism
he had our military stand down when they did have bin laden cornered
he captured sadda, husseim for what bin laden did
he let the Iraqi army go and let them go with their weapons
he took a secular government and turned it into muslim extremeists
he allowed destruction of their infrastructure, allowed looting of their most prized historical treasure, stopped the access to water, electricity and there are even lines for gasoline
I’m sorry, but this is too vast to be coincidental
I do not believe these things have happened due to “bad luck”, it seems deliberate
It ends like all wars with the stench of death, ruined lives and shattered dreams.
Thank for sharing, OldCoastie… nice brew.
My treat tomorrow after I go shopping.
What’s your favorite bean?
raven @ 26
What does it take before these people are called out as being totally unbalanced? I mean, I don’t really believe they’re crazy. I think they’re doing it for personal gain, but still . . . come on, people are actually dying because you are getting up there spewing all these lies, but it doesn’t matter because you can buy a new Ferrari with your appearance fee?
How does this end? The Iraq war is only one symptom of the disease.
“The President has the ability to exercise his own authority if he thinks Congress has voted the wrong way.”
– Tony Snow, January 8, 2007
To me, that is a declaration of civil war. Will the Congress and Constitution or the President and Executive branch win control of the Federal
Government? What will the SCOTUS do? Bush now has the power to use US military to enforce his vision of the law in the US. Who will enforce the court rulings; The Joint Chiefs of the military?
I now have a much better feeling for how “it” could have happened in Germany during the ’30’s.
What a mess.
mui @ 34
you are not going to believe this’
you don’t have to gamble when you visit foxwoods!!!!
hard to believe, but true, we should all gather, eat, party, have all sorts of progressive cavorting
SeriousKidding.com @
15
And he thinks he can create with a Word.
Careful with the ziggurats (multiple embedded quotes) please — it blows the margins.
Scarecrow @ 45
can I be a margin then?
When I watched the towers in flames, I had a small bit of hope. I didn’t know whether we’d been hit by bin Laden or by Iraq. But there was one thing I did know: Either way we had been attacked by people we had once supported and funded. I dared to hope that maybe, at long last, we would learn to choose our allies more wisely. Maybe, at long last, we would base our commitments on something more substantial than “are you mad at the same people we are?”
Maybe, at long last, we would see beyond the expediency of working with despots and murderers. Maybe, with the world on our side, we could mobilize the decent people of the world and mount a real assault on extremism and brutality everywhere.
In Panama and Kuwait, we sent our army against people we had sold weapons to. With 9/11 we had the ultimate in blowback. What more graphic example did we need of the consequences of supporting thugs?
Of course, it was not to be. The real enemy attack upon our own soil had happened on December 12, 2000. 9/11 was merely the coda.
How will it end? Not well. I no longer dare to hope. We will spend two generations undoing the moral, physical and economic damage that these petty and vicious men — theirs and ours — have inflicted on the United States. And that’s if we are lucky.
But it did not have to be. The world was with us once. Who knows what we could have done with that support and the moral authority that has been thrown away? 9/11 was a terrible price to pay, but still, it might have bought us something, instead of costing us everything.
How does it end?
Well, last time it ended with geopolitical humiliation, as heavily-laden helicopters took off from the roof of the embassy, about a year after impeachment hearings drove a corrupt, scandal-plagued administration from office.
I’m guessing we get something more or less similar this time around.
By the way, I thought Representative Lynn Woolsey (on Washington Journal) did a very good job of citing alternatives to war, such as helping your neighbor before automatically trying to kill them, that sort of thing. It was nice to hear.
Roddy,
But it did not have to be. The world was with us once. Who knows what we could have done with that support and the moral authority that has been thrown away? 9/11 was a terrible price to pay, but still, it might have bought us something, instead of costing us everything.
Yep. What an extraordinary opportunity the Bushies threw away.
Roddy McCorley @ 47
We share the two generation time frame, but my hope as the towers went down was that we could navigate a new course in the world in two generations.
Everything Bush has done since the towers went down have stepped that timeframe backwards.
I’m afraid we’ve not been lucky enough.
Scarecrow @ 48
I am CONVINCED we can get the world with us again, I am CONVINCED
if we hold the criminals to account, allow their arrest and trial for their crimes in international court
I am almost positive the world would see America in the same vision they saw us the days after we were attacked, when just about everyone in the world called themselves an American
this is something palosi does not understand, that in order to undo the damage accountabliity must take place
FYI the famous picture wasn’t really the embassy
Goodbye Saigon
cleter @
49
perris @ 52
I am CONVINCED we can get the world with us again, I am CONVINCED
if we hold the criminals to account, allow their arrest and trial for their crimes in international court
this is something palosi does not understand, that in order to undo the damage accountabliity must take place
I like your optimism, Perris.
The Germans and the Japanese are again respected, instead of feared and loathed.
Howie Klein had this piece yesterday.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspo…..ified.html
THE SURGE: POLITICAL COVER OR ESCALATION
by Paul Craig Roberts
“Neocon godfather Norman Podhoretz set out the plan for Middle East conquest several years ago in Commentary magazine. It is a plan for Muslim genocide. In place of physical extermination of Muslims, Podhoretz advocates their cultural destruction by deracination. Islam is to be torn out by the roots and reduced to a purely formal shell devoid of any real beliefs.”
“Podhoretz disguises the neoconservative attack against diversity with contrived arguments, but its real purpose is to use the US military to subdue Arabs and to create space for Israel to expand.”
Pretty strong stuff from a person who is an asso. editor of the WSJ.
raven @ 51
Better?
perris — I’m still optimistic about Speaker Pelosi and the Dems. So far, they’ve been doing a lot of the right things. The threat to limit funds to the troops there, but no more, was a bold first step, but we’ll see what happens.
OK. I know I sounded prudish. OK sounds good.
[sorry, I needed to de-zig this to keep the margins from exploding — scarecrow]
Great post Scarecrow. You nail it. Our soldiers have already won the “war.” Shrub & Co. has already lost the “peace.” What’s the point of putting 20K more of our soldiers in the middle of another country’s civil war?
On the fly…hope to catch up and read later today, but your heading prompts me to chime in…
Brace yerselves, pups, for a major Snow Job today.
There’ll be the comparison of Petraeus to Grant [hello…this isn’t OUR civil war, this is THEIR civil war…we are the
invadersinterlopers]There will be troop surge, and why does this all sound like an oh-so-phallic self-inflating boost for the teeny-weeny penie Bush crowd.
Not a one of them has made any sacrifice for this war, much less asked their own kids to do what they ask the sons and daughters of America.
Stall and Avoid accountability until January, 2009… Meanwhile the soldiers are dying and the body parts are flying.
Shame on Washington establishment for their behind their hands whispering…Yes, you, Colin Powell.
Shame on the family for enabling more of this madness for the Little Bush’s cowardly ego…Yes, you, Laura. And HW and Beautiful Mind.
Shame on the media for wink-wink we knew it all along…Yes, you, you know who you are….
BIG PROPS today to Senator Kennedy.
Scarecrow @
17
Once again a great post Scarecrow. Here’s a link from philly.com about the surge.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/16424082.htm
Aw, I just thought you’d want to know, i wasn’t bein snarky.
cleter @ 57
Scarecrow: “I doubt that the President understands this question.”
From Gary Hart, over at Huffpo:
Scarecrow…Gary Hart, anyone with a brain seems to come quickly to the realization that the man most frequently characterized as “incurious,” to the point of dangerous ignorance, really doesn’t know anything about anything of what he is doing. This President barely understands his own actions and certainly has NO conception, whatsoever, of the results.
Steve @ 56
I knew Podhoretz was revolting, but I am always shocked when someone reveals themselves to be genocidal.
Subax Wanaagsan Firedogs,
lisadawn82, – thanks for the Newsweek link and the oh so welcomed news about Boykin – let’s send him off w/ a little Somali flavah -
JOOGSO! HUBKAAGA OHIG! AAMUS ! JAAW !
(loosely trans: STFU, Put Your Gun Down and go away)
of course the Somalis would be civil enough to send him on his way with a little Peace Be Upon You (Assalam Alaikum ) but I’m not that civil even with coffee
And another thing…while scrambling to get ready for a long day, I was listening to Mike Huckabee on Imus this morning.
Since the media’s dubbed this a “high stakes” day, this is a conservative wild card to watch.
Who knows, maybe Jane & Co should look at his book and consider him for a Sunday Book Salon?
Once McCain melts down and Guiliani and Gingrich drown in their own moral morasses and Mitt gets muffed by the “values” crowd, Huckabee may emerge as the Republican standard-bearer.
We’d better get to know him.
Steve @ 43
in fact, I’m sorry tony snow is correct, he has that ability
then congress would impeach, that’s why impeachment is invoked so many times in the constitution, I believe the tool is invoked 6 times, someone correct me if I’m wrong
but ya, the president can do what he wants just as a criminal, until caught can do what they want
then they are held to account
Millineryman 62: thanks for the link to the Philly article.
johnSwifty @ 64
I’ll tell you what, hart put into one paragrapgh everything, it takes me chapters to say what he said, and at the end of my chapters you have less understanding then that one paragraph from hart
man that’s good
The Sarcastic Idiocy Forum stands firm in it’s resolve to help end the secretarial violence in Iraq.
http://www.thesif.net/SIF/index.php?
Bullshit, Bush knows exactly what he’s doing, has all along. It’s all about money, power, control of people. The history of US policy has brought this on, and that was planned too. This is a warrior government, war is it’s business, fund both sides and create enemies, and give the guns, just keep it going, whatever it takes.
mandrake @ 16
Heard that one and then there was another who went on an extended rant re. “It’s all Clinton’s fault that resulted in this terrible burden being dumped on the shoulders of…….blah, blah, blah…….”
IIRC, I already beat you to the mark re. Tweety’s hair yesterday; if not, it was sure the first thing that came to mind ;-)
Re: Somalia — after hearing this morning that administration officials assure us that Somalia is not a new front…
The deciderer strikes again, in his usually ineffective-but-highly-damaging manner.
Raven@51,
My family has a very good friend who’s Vietnamese. Husband was in the S.Vietnamese airforce, and they left at the last minute. She described a scene much like in the pictures, which was hard to believe until I saw and heard the descriptions of the Fall when I was older. Although she and husband were very tight with the Americans in many ways, she left family behind including daughters and had to fly to S. Korea and stay in a refugee camp there. Extricating her took the work of the Catholic church and an American officer friend of theirs.
My point: The reality of Iraq is becoming pretty clear. Will we issue visas/passports like the British did with HK or make a worse mess with refugees, includng those who worked for Americans, than Vietnam. Long winded, but at least you all know where I stand? The refugee thing feels almost personal.
A novel and untried approach to ending the death cycle in Gaza might be to give the Palestinians a homeland of their own, and the right of self-government, something that was rightly afforded the Israelis in 1948.
perris @ 70
Yep, but for yet another bit of salacious activity on the part of a Democratic hopeful, the very course of American history might be dramatically different right now. He still is good…very good…but he could have been vital.
Rayne @ 74
I doubt the rest of the world believes that Somalia is not a new front.
CNN getting ready to read some responses from e-mailers about “What do you want to hear Pres. Bush say tonite?”
This could be interesting…….or not, depending on their selectivity.
NaNOO @ 72
I think Cheney had some idea about making Halliburton a lot of money and Rove found that meshed well with his ambitions concerning world domination. I think Bush had a pony.
You’re welcome Scarecrow.
Bubble Boy Bush believes that He and Iranian controlled Prime Minister Nouri Kamel al-Maliki have a military plan for Iraq…Our own miltary generals cant figure a way out of this mess without 400K – 500k boots on the ground…Niccolo Machiavelli & Sun Tzu working together would be hard pressed to find a solution. Yet…delusional King Bush Jr presses the troops forward with HIS “plan”… forward to where? and to what end?
Andrea Mitchell showing damning footage of chimpy on MSNBC.
It appears that MSNBC is charging left!
Note how they have deftly “malkined” O’ Lielly.
Waccamaw @ 79
one from a soldier saying “get the media out of iraq so the military can do it’s job”
mui @ 75
Yes, it seems very likely we will need to absorb a huge number of Iraq refugees, just as Jordan, Syria, Iran are already doing. But the Administration is not acknowledging this because – um, we’re going to win, so what’s the problem?
Waccamaw @ 73
Yeah, I remembered now it was you talking about how hot Tweety was lookin’! ;-)
On WJ: I thought that one guy that called was going to have a brain explosion from his visceral hatred of all things Dem. I could almost hear his eyeballs boiling. Thought Woolsey handled herself very well and made some great points about the futility of using war to solve our international problems. Good job, Lynn. Wish she was my rep.
twolf1 @ 84
Or did he mean get the media out of America? ;-)
Scarecrow @ 85
I would like to get congress thinking about how we are going to get refugees into the country so we don’t have people hanging off of airplanes and helicopters that are filled over capacity and puking in refugee camps around the world. This can and should be done. Ted Kennedy must know the score.
Like a deluded compulsive gambler, Bush is fuelling a new cold war
With air strikes on Somalia and a surge in troops in Iraq, he is staking everything on a finale he can call victory
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm…..76,00.html
Waccamaw @ 79
“I, and Vice President Cheney, resign.”
lisadawn @38: thanks for the Newsweek link re General Boykin. That’s worth watching. Given today’s reports of more US strikes in Somalia, it doesn’t appear that Gates has a serious problem with the attacks.
Waccamaw @ 87
Do you mean to tell me that the media has been here the WHOLE TIME??? I hadn’t noticed.
The local (Western MA) rag does a fair job of taking wire copy and blending in quotes from Kennedy, Neal, and Olver…of course the meat is saved to the last bits:
http://www.masslive.com/news/t…..thispage=2
There will never be peace in the Middle East until Israel is stopped from doing what they are doing to the Palestinians.
barney.gov
johnSwifty @ 80, I think Bush had a pony, what do you mean my that? like he’s riding the crooks?
My daughter 28, seems to think i have an occupied mind. Like why do you care so much? Nothing is going to change she says. I don’t know why, because here in the US I feel that the general population is self centered and doesn’t really give a fuck about anybody else.
Understood, if you want a blow by blow of our intept handling read “Decent Interval” by Frank Snepp Decent
I guess, in some ways, your friend was fairly lucky. We’ll seel the Iraqi’s down the river in a heart beat the same way when the time comes.
mui @ 75
perris @ 68..you are correct, he does have that ability and the ability to declare martial law and the ability to nuke Iran and on and on. Bush is a psychopath who is being pushed into a corner by the Congress and maybe the courts. If Bush calls for an Iranian strike or martial law or what-ever, impeachment is not going to help. I just hope that the senior military remembers that their oath is to the US Constitution. Then we will be just like Turkey or any other country where the military is the decider.
mui @ 78
If you’re on the ground, it doesn’t much matter whether it’s an old or new front. I like the link, Rayne.
Re. the B$$$$ bush wants for reconstruction:
there was some discussion earlier on CNN about giving cash to soldiers to hand out for menial jobs (ie. create work). Where have we heard this story before? S.O.S.O.S.
mandrake @ 16
In my experience, this is the fundamental belief that makes someone a modern conservative. And it’s a lesson we need to take to heart; just because a large majority of the country now believes that going into Iraq was a bad idea and Bush lost the war doesn’t mean that they will continue to believe it in the face of relentless propaganda from the right that we coulda won if not for those traitors.
Endlessly stomping this down and reminding non-ideologues of the truth will be one of our tasks for the next generation at least.
Good piece scarecrow – the questions that need to be asked.
I wonder if they devoted a channel to running the pictures, alive and then dead, and the names of everyone we are killing, from the old men, to the disabled, to the young children, clutching for something – a toy, a parent, a blanket – as they died; I wonder if it would make any difference.
I’m guessing not. Backs were easily turned on Katrina’s dead. But at least there might be a separate understanding of the costs. If there might be some picture that makes someone catch their breath. Maybe one of the small hand clutching in death that had nothing to hold.
I don’t know, but I wonder. It’s very sad, very demoralizing, with pieces that are very frightening and very enraging and so few good options and answers. Nice piece.
…it did not matter that there might have been other Somali people killed in this latest attack and now more follow up US attacks, or that some of the victims were probably innocent,…
I think that was rather the point, to “immunize” the population against hiding these people, to make the world unsafe for them.(not that those efforts will work – case in point: our own underground railroad)
That said, I don’t think one innocent life should be sacrificed to the administration’s inept and lazy plans.
He should be enforcing the laws, national and international, and bringing terrorists to justice, not just banging around the world, cracking governments and killing people.
raven @ 97
Thanks I just bought it through your link.
But really, we need to lobby congress, because the Vietnam refugee situation was an utter disgrace.
Waccamaw @ 100
Why don’t they do that in NOLA?
I agree with you Oklahoma kiddo @ 94, I don’t know why the jews were given Isreal in 1948 when that was another peoples land. I know that Germany under Hitler killed jews, but I don’t think they were imported from that area.
NaNOO @ 96
I think that’s why some of us are here on FDL. I know I certainly feel that way, as if nobody around me cares that we’re on the brink of catastrophe. Instead, let’s go shopping and talk girlie stuff. I have a few people in my life that care but certainly the majority are still wrapped up in backyard barbecue, NASCAR, SUV-fantasy land. It feels like I’m living in The Twilight Zone. I guess I just never left and just now noticed that I’m still here.
Scarecrow—Atrios seems to like what you had to say this morning.
I wish I thought lobbying would do any good, I think I’m too old and cynical. . .sigh.
mui @ 104
Thanks I just bought it through your link.
But really, we need to lobby congress, because the Vietnam refugee situation was an utter disgrace.
Mary — showing the real pictures is not what they do. What I can’t understand is why they think its’s okay journalism to flash photos handed to them by the Administration, without asking, “is that who we hit? Why? Was there anyone else?” and not reporting that exchange.
What mission was accomplished, I always wonder. Pipelines?
NaNOO @ 96
As a result of us caring so much, things have changed. Iraq is about the only topic where we’re still talking about how we keep it from getting worse, on just about everything else, we now get to talk about how we can make it better. That’s huge! After November 7, no one should doubt that it’s worthwhile to care about changing the country.
RBG @ 108
Thanks. I like what Atrios has to say every morning.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/h…..ns.cartoon
The Challenge of Terror: A Traveling Essay by John Paul Lederach 16 September 2001
Lederach’s essay inspired this graphic.
raven@109
Noone is too old and cynical. I recently saw an 89 year old from out of state energetically working on a campaign.
twolf -
Did you hear that last e-mailer who said, “Send in a million troops & use nukes”?
raven @ 109
Ya’ know, I believe that’s part of the neo-con strategy. To just wear down our will like the seas wearing down an old stone. We get so tired of fighting them and exposing their barrage of absurd arguments, we just give up out of sheer exhaustion. If it was just a matter of who had the best argument, we would win hands down every time. Their numbers, influence and dollars are too great.
mui @ 116
Don’t forget the 80 year old who kept coming into the Lamont headquarters — a bomber pilot from WWII — to canvass the neighborhoods in CT. I think Kathryn from MA has pictures of him.
Prairie Sunshine @ 67
Huckabee is the guest tonight on Jon Stewart.
mrjj @ 6:58am
a minor but significant quibble -
al-Malikki is Iranian ‘influenced’ but not controlled. He is currently controlled by al-Sadr who is Shia, but an Iraqi Nationalist.
Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim is indeed Iran controlled (you know, the one they invited to WH in an 11th hour attempt to marginalize al-Sadr)and in fact, colluded w/Iran in the Iraq-Iran war
Scarecrow @ 46
Wasn’t that a John Lennon sing, Immargin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEnVJyAMn3w
ccmask @ 110
Making Halliburton/KBR rich
Waccamaw @ 117
I have to say, don’t you think that a lot of these people who still support Bush are wondering why we haven’t done this already? It must be terribly confusing for them.
Waccamaw @ 116
No I wasn’t paying attention :( Are u sure u weren’t listening to Sean Hannity?
mandrake @118
Yeah but our secret weapon is: We progressives rock, they don’t.
Yea, I remember. It was 1973!
Ya’ know, I believe that’s part of the neo-con strategy. To just wear down our will like the seas wearing down an old stone. We get so tired of fighting them and exposing their barrage of absurd arguments, we just give up out of sheer exhaustion. If it was just a matter of who had the best argument, we would win hands down every time. Their numbers, influence and dollars are too great.
Scarecrow @ 119
Wait a minute there was a WWII vet his late 80s from MA. Same guy?
Democrats feel liberals’ antiwar heat
Freshman and veteran lawmakers alike risk the ire of bloggers and other activists if they waver on an Iraq exit.
By Janet Hook, Times Staff Writer
January 10, 2007
http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..;cset=true
mandrake @ 124
This is why we have been developing that low yield nookulur bunker-buster thingy
Scarecrow @ 113
((clapping!))
I know scarecrow – I think that makes it so much easier to sell the fairy tale. If all we had seen of Katrina were shots of people in line getting onto buses and being evacuated in an orderly fashion, no scenes of chaos from the dome or bodies floating in the water — they might have sold the fairy tale of Brownie and his excellent job.
Without the pictures of Abu Ghraib, the could sell the story that abandoning the Geneva Conventions for “those people” does nothing to US as a people.
If you see or even hear about the pictures of the dead children in so many of the “insurgent operations” beautiful 4 yos in their pajamas or with just a shirt, it’s a different reality. If you hear about soldiers carrying bodies of children whose brains dribble out onto their boots, it’s a different reality. If you see an aunt or grandmother or another child looking for the blown off limbs of their nephew, grandson, brother, it’s a different reality.
Introducing ‘San Francisco values’ to the rest of America
Should middle America fear the West Coast heathens now in Washington?
http://www.workingforchange.co…..emid=21852
twolf1 @ 126
Nah; it was THE . BEST . POLITICAL . NEWS . COVERAGE station in the world *g*
Re: Somalia. I think NPR had someone last night who was asking why the military had not been more forthcoming on who was killed and etc.
ie: If the mission was successful, why not better info. Something to that effect.
From the Department of Cart-Drawn Horses
By Swopa
Jan 10 2007 – 7:54am
http://www.needlenose.com/node…..ec2824de36
twolf1 @ 131
Oh, that’s just great! Won’t the Slim Pickens of Amurika be clamoring to mount that thing!
Waccamaw @ 79
“I resign.”
Almost forgot to mention; today’s photo came from Christy, from a post she did on November 21, 2006.
I’m off to work, but will check back later. Thanks.
I will not be looking at Prince George tonight. Anger prevention. I’ll stick with analysis by Olbermann, etc.
mui @
129
I thought the one we met was local — near the Meriden HQ.
egregious @ 139
eg -
CNN apparently running small batches of these thru’out the morning……..that’s the one I’ve been waiting to hear crop up also
Scarecrow @ 119
Picture here.
I worry that this will end tragically. I have always from before the war started worried that it would be a fiasco and I am not at all happy that I wasn’t proven wrong.
mui and scarecrow at 75 & 85 regarding absorbing refugees. The US quota for Iraqi refugees for the year is 500! That’s with 2 zeros. It has been talked about recently but with all of the fear mongering focused on brown skinned people, what kind of life could Iraqi immigrants have here? True they would not be in fear for their lives on an hourly basis, but I don’t see that the country as a whole would roll out the welcome carpet. I say this with deep sadness and would love to be proven wrong here too.
I feel like we’re living with the “Manchurian” President. He’s been programmed and brainwashed and there’s no there there.
How do we turn it around?
Impeachment
The Hague
Truth and Reconcilliation Commissions.
Any or all of the above. That is the only picture I can imagine of saving the country and the world.
How does it end?
With tears. Lots and lots of tears.
mui @ 129
his name is marshall (and i think he was from CT), here’s a picture i took at scarecrow’s request (Kathryn in MA may have more).
edited to add this p.s. – when we met marshall he was 90!
if you want to torture yourself. lieberman is live on cspan2
-at least they label him as (I-Conn)
Waccamaw @ 143
Don’t forget Snarly the Veep!
How to get your blood moving:
http://wwDemocrats feel liberals’ antiwar heat
Some moderate Democrats worry that the pressure being applied by the antiwar left is misguided, arguing that voters want a change of course in Iraq but not a rapid withdrawal.
“Conventional wisdom says that presidential candidates who want to be responsible on this are going to hurt themselves with the angry, impassioned activist left,” said Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a centrist Democratic think tank. “But the activist left is out of sync with the American public. Americans don’t want to concede this is a total debacle.”
Where was he last fall? In a cave with Joe L? The following should tell him where the ‘American people’ are and what they want:
CNN’s online poll this morning:
Should 20,000 more U.S. troops be deployed to help control the violence in Iraq?
Yes 25% 5527 votes
No 75% 16616 votes
Total: 22143 votes
One of the many reasons I love my job (teaching in a small, rural public school) is that while my kids are working on projects, reading, doing problems or taking tests is I get to surf and comment here and elsewhere. You see this lovely little town and my school are a hot bed of liberal progressives in an otherwise very red state. And every classroom has two computers at the teachers desk, plus a very fine and well done computer lab, with a gazillian pc’s and laptops. And we are wifi. So… it’s great!
twolf1 @ 146
snort!
twolf1 @ 146
not into self-abuse thank you.
RevDeb @ 144
personally i like the idea of a truth and reconcilliation commission. as much as the hague may be fair… if these guys think they’re headed to trial i fear they will be like cornered rats fighting for their lives.
speaking of RGJoe,
Gilliard has an early valentine to Mayor Bloomberg up
http://stevegilliard.blogspot……ucker.html
Heckuva job Bloomie !
.RevDeb @ 144
RevDeb, Scarecrow &Selise. New Haven here. So I guess there were at least two WWII vets. Which stresses the point that you can never be too old and cynical.
I don’t see the quota as an end all. I believe that legislation was passed in the Carter era to fix the refugee problem then. This time we should anticipate the problems before hand not after. Naturally, policians & many of the population are going to act like that the refugees are the Islamicist version fo the VietCong.
Scarecrow– thank you for the post and it is one of your very best, imho. How will it end? With Afghanistan and Iraq empty spaces that we will control by proxy and puppets. It’s all about the resources buried beneath the land and has nothing to do with spreading democracy to the poor and war ravaged people who live on the land. I believe that we incited the civil war in Iraq and encouraged the Taliban in Afghanistan (they are at the very least turning a blind eye to them!)– what better way to clear the lands and bring about compliance? (this strategy will not work in the long run, though, unless everyone is killed because people really do love their countries and care about their neighbors and families!)
The treatment of Palestinians is an abomination. The way we have treated those that have democratically elected their governments (Lebanon and Palestine) is an abomination. Until and unless the discussion of Israel/Palestine becomes ok and de riguer in this country, we are in for more hell on earth. Yes, we had an opportunity after 9/11– we squandered it completely and never addressed the root causes of what happened and this is surely part of it. When the victims and descendents of those who suffered from the horrible Holocaust claimed “never again”, they meant something that all of America should remember as our leaders engage in these wars and acts of aggression.
As for the callers who want the media out and nuclear weapons in– I guess they want nobody to see the carnage they wreak and their illegal behavior.
With nukes, there is ZERO concern for human life and I abhor that kind of thinking, but am not suprised at all. It’s the same thoughtless, rampant stoopidity, impatience and hate exhibited by this WH.
hiya mods! i seem to have landed in moderation… whoops.
Gotta sign off. It’s waaay too easy to linger here at FDL.
rawstory: GOP senator hits Bush plan, says Iraq ‘not our fight:’ Soon…
here it is:
I watched Munich the other night on HBO and I thought the same thing afterwards – “that’s us now”. We are in a cycle of revenge that will bring no end to death and destruction.
Why did we give it away? After WWII, we tried the Nazis at Nuremberg. We certainly could have sought revenge, but we gave the worst of the worst justice instead. And we were better for it. We proved that we were better than pure revenge. Why did we give it all away?
angie @ 155
You might conclude, I concur.
Fox News Anchor Calls Ted Kennedy A ‘Hostile Enemy Right Here On The Home Front’
It’s not what Bush has to say tonight that interests me much. What I AM concerned about is what my party has to say about what the idiot says.
twolf1 @ 161
Pox news. A hostile force and enemy of the Constitution.
Twolf1
Funny about Joey2Face (I-Con?). The ‘new’ partyman is referred that way universally across every cite over about the last week. The word is out – he’s a rogue.
—-
EPUing mebbe, but good work, scarecrow.
mandrake @
125
The neocon plan is for the American public to back a draft and nukes once the volunteer army is destroyed in the middle east.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 162
They are not planning a response. I guess they feel that insanity doesn’t deserve one. Let him hang out there alone with Laura and Barney.
raven @ 97
johnSwifty:
Are you still around? Frank Snepp–the guy I was telling you about.
RevDeb @ 166
And Hillary?
CNN – What would you like to hear in President Bush’s Eyerak speech tonight? cnnnewsroom@cnn.com
Did I dream this:
Didn’t Bush Sr. once threaten to cut funding to the Israeli government?
egregious @
139
Heh. The Mpls Startribune has a quick poll up asking who is going to watch the speech tonight – only 26% said they would watch. Now – if this were to be a resignation speech, I would watch. Otherwise -not.
RevDeb @ 166
I like Ted Kennedy’s response to the insanity that he posited yesterday. The Democratic party should NOT miss this opportunity to respond over and over again. If they go along to get along; well, then… we’ve got lots more work to do and I, for one, will work to unseat a whole lot of them! Ted said yesterday that almost all of the dems were on board– with a few notable exceptions. Wonder who???
just kidding ;(
The Fox fuck about ‘hostile enemy’ is troubling.
twolf1 @ 169
Sent it:
What I sent to CNN for ‘what I’d like to hear’:
“I’m ordering all surveillance to be doen with warrants, effective immediately.”
“We can’t win under any foreseeable circumstances, so I’m pulling out the troops.”
“Richard Cheney is resigning for health reasons, effective immediately.”
“I’m resigning for health reasons, effective immediately. Madam President, the floor is yours.”
RevDeb @ 174
sweet
Speaking for myself only, I intend to damn well keep my party’s Dems) feet to the fire!
C-SPAN – House debate on minimum wage hike currently live
I meant just kidding about “wonder who?”
I think we can safely assume Lieberliar, Clinton, Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, etc.
Romney Supports Troops Surge
-via thinkprogress
angie @ 171
when senator kennedy said that (”with a few exceptions”) yesterday, i yelled out -”BUT HE’S NOT A DEMOCRAT!!!” course i suspect there may be a few more than lieberman… but’s let’s not count him as a dem.
Oklahoma kiddo @
170
I think that’s true. As far as I’ve heard James Baker wanted to deduct the cost of new Israeli settlements in disputed territory from the annual aid package. When the predictable hysterical reaction ensued, Baker is reputed to have said, “F— the jews, they don’t vote for us anyway.”
great post.
Thank you.
Just peaking in between conference calls… Hi everyone!
Scarecrow, great post…. some where on that wall is the name of my first beau… Tommy Gene…killed within three months of being in country.
One of the reasons that drew me to Howard Dean reading his book “Taking back America”, he talks about his plans for Vermont while governor. How to change the numbers going into prison with early childhood education, twenty, fifty and one hundred year plans for his state. The problem with our current crop if idiots is that they only see to the next Sunday talking show, next election, or session of congress. None of BushCo ever think of the future. I have two little futures…. my granddaughters and they deserve a little of what I had as a kid and a whole lot of what I could give my kids. Damn them…..
selise @ 181, I did the very same thing! LOL.
The latest twist is that news leaking out from the WH on “the plan” is attributing the surge-plan to the Iraqi govt and that Bush is responding to a request for support to the Iraqi plan.
The general consensus of the guests is that Bush, his nonexistent plans and any word from them lack any credibility whatsoever now.
Someone here recently (I don’t recall who it was), said HRC was at one time an “AUH20 Girl”. On Iraq and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict at least, I think that observation holds water.
new thread
rumi @ 186
That’s part of his personality disorder. Always blame someone else when things go wrong. Never accept responsibility for your own misdeeds.
katymine — I’m very sorry for your loss.
AmericaBlog has THE PLAN
mandrake @
16
That’s whining, not winning.
The captain and his enablers are deranged, and now the captain will give us another lecture tonight on keeping track of the strawberries. Our ship is adrift and in danger of foundering. President Queeg and his inability to admit a mistake. In “The Caine Mutiny,” the only way to save the ship was for the crew to wrest the helm away from their crazy captain. What do you call a mutiny when it takes place on a storm-tossed ship of state? The Constitution spells it out. It starts with an “i.” And we shouldn’t be taking it off the table.
Steve @ 98
I pointed this out to colleagues last year before the election. They thought I was mad (as usual). Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that. I’m mildly optimistic that Bush will not declare martial law, optimism being based on his bottom-feeding polls, which will make it difficult for him to execute the Plan. It will probably turn out like the Saturday Night Massacre. One bridge too far.
ccmask @ 111
I’ll tell you one mission that has been accomplished. Guess how we’re going to pay for this war when the Saudis, the Chinese, the Japanese and our other creditors call in their markers?
With Social Security. That’ll kill it at last, something the GOP has dreamed of but not dared to say out loud for the last 70 years.
Biodun @
167
I had to go work, or something…got it! Thanks, Biodun!
Excellent piece, Scarecrow. So well-written. You’ve gotten to the heart of the problem.
The silliest thing I’ve read in a long time.
I found it especially touching that you quoted Kofi Annan, who presided over the butchery in Rwanda, the oil-for-food program and the UN’s exploitation of young children for sex–rule of law my ass.
Did you ever ask yourself why no one pays attention to UN resolutions? I mean, if the law is the solution to all this violence and exploitation, then wouldn’t all these UN resolutions have been a lot more effective?
The answer is simple–the law is merely the consensus of the empowered. That house you were complaining that the U.S. military shot up? It was in Waziristan, a “tribal” area on the border of Afghanistan. Al Qaeda is the law in this area, and do you know why? Because they have the guns and people willing to use them to impose their will.
The law operates by implicit threat of force, which makes your argument pathetically foolish.
The U.S. uses force or the threat of force to impose the law (its will). The terrorists do the same in order to impose their law. So the real question is whose law do you want to be under?
If you don’t want to fight, the drop your drawers and bend over, because you’ve got nothing to complain about unless you have four witnesses.
Someone is always willing to impose law–the question for you is whether you can accept that Hajji does it instead of you.
Mick — yes, of course, the rule of law has to be enforced, and there must be a willingness to use force behind that. No civilized nation functions otherwise. Beyond that, we will probably not agree. There are more choices than being bombed by US forces and being beheaded/murdered by terrorists, and neither, it seems to me, tends in the long run to move us in the direction in which the rule of law is honored with much less bombing/beheading. That, at least, ought to be a goal.
For the record, I have fought, in Viet Nam.
Peshmurga Iraqi forces (Kurdistan forces) have already declared they will not deploy to Baghdad to get involved in the Sunni vs Shia Civil war.
Maliki and his Shia dominated military will not move against anti-American cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in any meaningful way. Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani Ali Husaini will assist Moqtada al-Sadr in the background.
So it looks like Americans will be clearing out the Sunni’s for the Shia.
In the movie “War Game,” they were finally able to teach the computer that it couldn’t “win.” Will anyone be able to teach our pResident that?
This is your best scacrecrow. Thanks be to God. Thanks for always articulating the moral position.
Blessings and thanks for your mission.