President Bush has said on previous occasions that when it comes to deciding whether more US troops should be added to Iraq or withdrawn, "I listen to the generals on the ground." But apparently he meant only when the generals on the ground are carrying out his wishes. When those same generals advocate a different policy, it's time to replace them.
From ABC News:
January 04, 2007 4:02 PM
ABC News' Martha Raddatz Reports: ABC News has learned that the president intends to nominate Admiral William J. Fallon to replace General John Abizaid at Central Command. The announcement is expected next week, before the president gives his Iraq strategy speech, according to US officials.
Officials also tell ABC that the replacement as MNF-I commander in Iraq (replacing Gen. George Casey) will be LTG David Petraeus. Though Casey was originally staying in position till June, he is expected to leave earlier than expected probably in the next few months. “The president wants a clean sweep” an official told ABC News.
Friday’s WaPo and the NYT have more including an article by Michael Gordon and Thom Shanker:
“The idea is to put the whole new team in at roughly the same time, and send some clear messages that we are trying a new approach,” a senior administration official said Thursday.
In addition to the military changes, Mr. Bush intends to appoint the ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, as the new United States ambassador to the United Nations, a senior administration official said Thursday.
“It was clearly time to move the players around on the field,” said the senior official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because Mr. Bush had yet to announce the changes. “This helps the president to make the case that this is a fresh start.”
Yes, but a fresh start to what? The need for a clean sweep became apparent when both Casey and Abizaid expressed strong reservations about sending additional combat troops to Iraq, and insisted that any “surge” the President’s men wanted be tied explicitly to some definable, limited, and achievable mission. One has yet to emerge. Those have been inconvenient truths to a President bent on escalating the war, now that the elections are out of the way. The Times article suggests General Petraeus, who will replace Casey, is more sympathetic to adding more troops and thus less likely to say the wrong thing to reporters and Congressional committees. William Arkin has more on the General here.
The choice of an Admiral of the Navy to oversee Central Command for Iraq and Afghanistan is more intriguing (h/t GSD); you don’t usually see a Navy man overseeing ground troops in a ground war. On the other hand, an aggressive Navy guy might admirably fit in with a strategy that recently moved two aircraft carrier battle groups into the waters near Iran. That will bear watching.
For more than a year, the senior US military commanders in Iraq and the Middle East have been pursuing what they thought were the wishes of the President and his "national security team," including now replaced Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld. That strategy, whatever its merits and plausibility, was to train Iraqi forces so that when the Iraqis stand up, US troops can stand down. In the meantime, US forces would be heavily engaged in combat operations, fighting Sunni/Baathist resistance in some areas, conducting house-to-house searches for sectarian fighters in others, and fighting frequently with various Shiite militia, particularly those loyal to Muktada al-Sadr. But all that was supposed to taper off as the Iraqi Army and police gradually took over security operations and allowed the American troops to stand down.
The Iraq Study Group, picking up on this military strategy from talking to military commanders in Iraq and here, and wanting desperately to believe that there was a realistic strategy for eventual withdrawal, re-emphasized the need to continue and accelerate the training of Iraqi forces. The ISG Report presented this strategy, along with expanded negotiations and other political initiatives, as the necessary step to allow a redeployment of US troops away from combat operations — and eventually, home.
Prior to the elections, the White House seemed more than happy to adopt this strategy, or to at least claim that it was supporting it. WH officials repeatedly dangled the possibility of US troop reductions before the electorate, and they encouraged General Abizaid, the leader of the Central Command in the Middle East, and General Casey, the head of the US/International Forces in Iraq, to discuss the strategy with reporters and before Congress.
The Generals told us that if the training went as planned, we could begin to reduce US troop levels in Iraq by so many thousands by some future date, and reduce them even more later — with withdrawals continuing through the 2006 elections. It seemed the whole strategy was designed to assure the American people that there was a plan to bring the troops home, and it would work.
Of course, the training strategy did not go well as chaos overran Bush’s plan. Despite repeated announcements by Rumsfeld and the President about how many Iraqi battalions were trained and how many were now operating (sorta) on their own, Iraqi forces too often failed. Men deserted or failed to show up for training; units lacked leadership and equipment; and the sectarian militias made up so many of the units that there was greater loyalty to the sectarian leadership than the nominal Iraqi commanders. When looking for the Iraq Army, there was no there there. And of course, sectarian violence exploded after the bombing of the sacred Shiite mosque in Samarra, creating impossible conflicts for the allegiance of the Iraqi forces.
But a funny thing happened along the way: Despite all the problems, the US generals apparently came to believe in the strategy they were told to plan for. To them, it wasn't an election ploy; instead, it became a logical approach to forcing the Iraqi government to deal more forcefully with it's own political and security problems. Instead of invalidating the strategy, the increasing sectarian violence proved the strategy's political importance. And it was a practical necessity, dictated by the increasing fear that an open-ended military commitment, let alone an escalation of US troop involvement, would "break" the Army.
Now however, the elections have passed. The strategy is no longer needed to win the election — in fact, it failed to do that. So the strategy is being abandoned by the White House, leaving the generals the unhappy choice of either defending it openly, in opposition to their Commander in Chief and civilian leadership, or agreeing to implement a different policy they do not support.
These men were already planning to retire; they could have just shut up. But they chose to speak out. And like others who spoke openly of their disagreement with the Bush White House claims, they are now about to be replaced, but on an accelerated schedule.
In coming weeks and months, we will likely hear again from these generals, and many others like them, who have found it necessary to speak out against their Commander in Chief. Only this time, they won't be speaking only on CNN or MSNBC's Hardball. They'll be testifying before Congress, in front of Committees headed by Democrats, who will be very interested in what they have to say. I expect the nation's media will be riveted on the spectacle of watching senior military officials explain why their recommendations were ignored by an increasingly unpopular President and his men.
I've said so many times in the last year or so, I don't remember anything like this in my lifetime. And I don't know how it ends.
And as Dan Froomkin asked Wednesday, “Where’s the outrage over escalation?”
UPDATE: Dems Senator Reid and Speaker Pelosi send letter to Bush urging him not to add more US troops. Greg Sargent at TPM (h/t Prof. Foland) has the unofficial text.
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0
Nancy!
ZED?
Fitzmas in January! CHS!
Doh!
TA DAH!!!! a Zilch! Na Na Na Na Na Na. (Oh children, we all are) – unless that is the point of the simian play above? – off to read.
I guess Shrub isn’t listening to the Generals anymore. He’s listening to the Admirals now.
Jane gets some love from Bob Geiger over at HuffPo…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..37898.html
what a perfect picture!!
CNN – letter from House leadership – “surging forces is a strategy u have already tried… we believe trying it again would b a mistake”
A nice unified message from the Democrats against the surge.
Nice work Madame Speaker and Mr. Leader.
-GSD
jayt @ 9
Yes. That choice was Christy’s going away on vacation present this morning.
Chwimpy finds another ‘idea’ for victory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tphG4iuGmxk
McCain & the Liar still taking questions on C-Span2.
On the other hand, an aggressive Navy guy might admirably fit in with a strategy that recently moved two aircraft carrier battle groups into the waters near Iran. That will bear watching.
Well – there’s proof that it’s good to read before commenting, ’cause I was gonna say the same thing. (pats self on back for self-restraint)
Amendment XXV, Section Four:
It is time.
… oh, and:
Troops
Home
NOW
Tellingly, they don’t say, “This helps the president make a fresh start.”
Listen…to what the generals are sayin’…
Aah-AHH-ahh-ahh-ahh
Listen, it’s getting louder, causing pain
Listen, it’s like a kick right in your ass
Aah-AHH-ahh-ahh-ahh
Listen, it means more than oil and gas
;>)
I posted about this early this AM EST, but here is a much better place.
This morning former Defense Minister Ali Allawi published in the Independent UK a Blueprint for Peace in Iraq which i find brilliant. (He is NOT the CIA-trained ex-PM Iyad (Ayad) Allawi.) The Plan is detailed, logical, effuses a deep understanding of the region, and might even be visionary.
Allawi’s Blueprint is a true beacon in the darkness surrounding Bush’s mad dash into Mordor. But the timing of its release is also brilliant. Allawi, and the Independent for publishing it, have taken the wind out of the Rovian Surge Sail for next week. Particularly if the blogosphere picks it up.
If that happens, the Dems could use this Plan as the basis for a completely sane and opposing policy. I’ve put a short summary and analysis at my place. But i suspect the Blueprint at the very least should be required reading for FDL. It is the most reasoned way out of the miasma i’ve stumbled across.
link: (Mods please help, i don’t know where the arrows are on my laptop.)
http://news.independent.co.uk/…..125419.ece
This is the old ‘lose the forest in the trees’ game. Getting everybody to look and debate over which shrub will make for a perfect Christmas, maybe nobody will notice that the fire they lit now has them surrounded. What a pile of shit. All of them have one obvious, even if they think it is ulterior, motive : Cover My Ass. “Train up, surge up, throw up but just don’t blame me!” is all the military brass is thinking now.
Where is RW Cole?
“Clusterfuck” seems to have been very prescient indeed.
What a fucking nightmare.
Developing on CNN.com:
In today’s Salon, Tim Grieve on McCain’s flip-flop:
ok, time for the press to do their jobs, they know the public wants them to do their jobs, their bosses know they are screwed if the president messes with any more of this country
now, they have to ask the president “how long is this surge”?
they have to ask the president “where are these troops comming from”
“what areas are being depleted to accomidate your surge”
“what is their mission?”
“how will we replensish the resource we expend in this surge”
and last but not least;
“have you asked your daughters to enlist?”
perris, I would add one to your excellent list of questions:
WHOSE sacrifice?
jayt @ 15
And I mentioned it in the last post (patting self also). What I also said there was that I thought this push for a huge escalation of troops in Iraq may also be about gaining the necessary troops for an Iraq intervention so that the admin can leave Iraq smoldering, and seek to win the hearts and minds with red-white-blue new military advance into Iran. The best way to get people to forget a failure is to put some other military venture there to take attention away. How nice it coincides with religious ideology (rapture: Bush), Israel (neoCon thugs: Lieberlier et al). In short this new “Iraq surge” is nothing more than getting us to look at the “shiny new thong” :-) – rather than what is really going down.
ThinkProgress recently posted this:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..for-surge/
CBS: Military Tells Bush It Has Only 9,000 Troops Available For ‘Surge’
drive-by, sorry if posted before
…like in the comment right above mine. duhhhh
twolf1 @
10
I’m glad you mentioned this. I was going to and add a hellacious big thank you and congratulations to Team Pelosi.
perris @ 24
Another addition: Who will be paying the bills?
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..rong-iraq/
Thank you scarecrow, yet again, for a concise composite of the timely issues.
I am so torn in personal opinion as to what I hope happens here. Reading the link to the Biden comments, I think he is saying what so many have been thinking for months now — even those saturated with the kool aid at the highest level of the administration are convinced that Iraq is a lost cause and they just need to ‘hold on’ long enough to hand it off.
Well, I DO believe that, but what do I really want to happen? If the CheneyCo group succeeds in ‘holding’ on long enough to complete the handoff, there is a greater possibility for history revisionist specialists to massage the circumstances of the eventual collapse under what will probably be a Democratic watch post 2008. That would then allow for a neo-con authoritarian resurgence all the quicker just like the Iran hostage situation affected Carter’s Democratic administration.
So I should, necessarily, want this administration to FAIL in Iraq BEFORE they can hand it off. But, I know more kids will die quicker, and in greater numbers if that is to transpire.
So, for the sake of preserving the possibility that fewer people might die in the protracted (but at least controlled to a modicum), collapse of the Iraq occupation, I should want allow the authoritarian assholes the capability to pick up all their Halliburton chips and slink away from the table, mission accomplished. Well that sticks in a craw, so big and so bad, just on principle where I was previously unaware that I possessed either principle or craw enough to care; however, I’m not going to have to die to protect that principle, so I am prepared to relenquish it.
I just don’t know what to do. I’ll continue to rail against the powers, of course, and spout senseless shit; but, I would like it to be at least consistent and somewhat purposeful.
I just don’t know what to do.
When the North African campaign failed, Hitler kept his troops in the field to be slaughtered. When generals failed in the doomed Soviet campaign, he simply replaced them with himself. The generals and field marshals who survived were the ones who routinely disobeyed Hitlers’s orders, and got their men out of harm’s way. Rommel later wrote, “From that time on, we had continually to circumvent orders from the Fuhrer or Duce in order to save the army from destruction.” This is the thinking in the Pentagon now. Adolf “Meat Tenderizer” Bush has appointed himself the head general. (See Charlie Chaplin’s “The Great Dictator” for the full visual effect). The American leaders in the field are just treading water until someone (the Congress?) relieves this Commander in Chief of duty…
It could not come any sooner for them.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 27
Oh if only the Repugs had agreed to stem cell research early on, we would have full grown clones now to enlist. The same time compression we see in the Grand Canyon Creationist arguments being at play here too.
What do you bet, that we will hear a plan to empty our prisons enorder to find the needed enlistment people – you know to give them discipline, make them better citizens (fodder?). Evangelizers will give them an hour of moral education every day to make up for their past wrongs.
TeddySanFran @ 25
Teddy, I can do no better than quote Lloyd George (in the Norway Debate in the House of Commons, May 1940.
His resignation (and the resignation of his appointed officers) is the only satisfactory sacrifice George can make.
BC
rumi @ 29
“house leadership”
hehe
does that mean madam speaker?
now, they have to ask the president “how long is this surge”?
“Until victory is achieved.”
they have to ask the president “where are these troops comming from”
“From the finest fighting force the world has ever known.”
“what areas are being depleted to accomidate your surge”
“I don’t buy your premise.”
“what is their mission?”
“Victory.”
“how will we replensish the resource we expend in this surge”
“The United Staes of America has the finest fighting force in the world.”
and last but not least;
“have you asked your daughters to enlist?”
“Uhhh, go fuck yourself.”
Gee, I can be President, too.
Or, at least, Vice President.
twolf1 @ 28
You don’t need to apologize; we posted at the same time.
Richmond @ 26
fearfully agreeing… there had to have been huge overriding preparations against IRAN for Rove to let the election go as he saw Iraq was aflame… The cabal has power well in hand, and don’t seem to fear the division between Democrats and Republicans, but have discounted the Democrats and now are willing to see the Republican party shredded too… peeling off old conservatives, peeling off religious voters,
we thought we were watching in horror but it’s worse…
we’ve been duped…
Cheney’s won and Rumsfeld will be back
are we facing an oligarcy?
is our Constitution gone?
would be nice to hear some other than Olbermann use the word “esalate” as opposed to “surge”.
OfT – Do ya suppose Tucker Carlson got some kind of neo-con-sponsored trophy for declaring the new Democratic Congress a failure within hours of their swearing-in?
ok, time for the press to do their jobs, they know the public wants them to do their jobs, their bosses know they are screwed if the president messes with any more of this country
I agree that it is well-past time for them to do their jobs, but the news business is, first and foremost, a business.
Businesses love Bush in direct relation to their size – i.e. the bigger the business, the more they love him. They’re not going to change their tune until Olbermann is the highest-ranked program (not just news-related program) on TV.
Brave Senator Obama, Man of Courage, will be sure to deploy his stentorian Moral Authority, and condemn this madness on the National Stage! Furthermore, he will say there is no way he would vote more money to the deranged Preznit’s misadventures!
>snark
johnSwifty, you continue to delight with your comments. Thanks for that one.
crazy horse @19
thanks – everybody should read it – It is the clearest, most concise description and prescription for Iraq that I’ve seen. I don’t believe asshole is capable of following this plan as it would cede control to iran and syria. So he has to go. After listening to Pelosi last night, I can see she is ready. She can finish out his term and appoint Carter to implement the plan.
sporkovat @ 41
Let’s see. I trust him more than Hil’ry. He voted against the Bankrupcy bill – so there is hope.
Remember this guy told Woodward he would continue in Iraq if the only people supporting him were Laura and the dog…
Listening? subliminabable….
johnSwifty @ 10:26 am -
Halliburton is only a big tip of a far bigger iceberg because of the number of contractors in Iraq.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 46
Right, and they need new greener pastures (Iran), because there aint much need of tinfoil bottomhumvies in Iraq any more.
When Bush said that he listens to the generals on the ground, he was not referring to Iraq or to generals there. He was referring to real warriors: generals from the Texas Air National Guard. They were wandering around outside his office windows.
I just don’t buy the chimpanzee analogy. The chimp is better looking and undoubtedly a lot smarter than The Deciderer.
Don;t feel like the Lone ranger, it’s easy to pose all kinds of solutions when your ass is safe.
johnSwifty @ 32
catfood @ 49
Good one!
Richmond @ 34
I replied once but maybe I got thrown out. Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger, this deal is a bitch and it’s easy for peopler to say what to do when your own ass is safe and warm.
johnSwifty @ 32
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 46
I think the house needs to federalize haliburton, freeze their assets and investigate
BTW Josh Marshall has the complete text of the Pelosi/Reid letter to Bush asking to bring a close to the war.
Sorry if I have multiple posts, I seem to be having browser issues.
Biodun @
23
KO awarded St. McCain the title of “Worst Person in the World” for flip-flopping…with citations to other statements McCain has made over the last four years. I thought it was perfect.
johnSwifty @ 31
Bush has already failed in Iraq. “Surges”, a “New Way Forward”, his use of the future tense “We will only fail if” are all meant to direct attention away from this fact. One way to guage what’s on Bush’s mind is to look at his rhetoric, see what phrases he obsesses on, and assume the opposite, “Progress” and “Victory” being two examples.
Bush is rather like those sports announcers desperately trying to hold their audience in a football game where the score is 42-0 and the game is in the 4th quarter . Yeah, a mere 6 touchdowns and a field goal and they could be right back in this!
When the question comes up who lost Iraq, we need to be very clear: Iraq is already lost and Bush lost it.
Good essays this morning, Scarecrow.
Reading Rajiv Chandrasekaran’s Imperial Life in the Emerald City, it is pretty clear that the window of opportunity to win this war, if there ever was such a window, was brief – late spring through early fall, 2003. Are there other books out there which highlight so well the time from the Battle of Baghdad through September 2003?
At that time, Iraqi professionals and the US military were forces useful for concluding civil transfers from pre-war to rational post-war structures, and for directing military operations toward security of arms storage areas and civilian infrastructure.
Now, the pre-war Iraqi civilian infrastructure has been hopelessly destroyed and the U.S. military EN MASSE disbelieves in the operation.
End this madness now!
perris @ 52
with or wtithout lieberman we have the vores to over turn the war powers this president thinks he enjoys
Are the vores linked to the earlier post’s shiny thongs? Isn’t the vore a tiny fat rodent that only comes out of its night-time eating frenzy when a bright light is focused on it? Either that or when they are distracted by sexy things dancing in shimmering shiny thongs.
Vores – etymology: venal whores.
Richmond @ 61
Hmmmm, sorry, Richmond, I don’t see “venal whores” on the oficial copy of the Luntz memo. It is not an approved epithet to hurl at Dems.
well, this full letter needs to be posted, that is for certain, MAN nancy IS THE BESTEST
Dear Mr. President:
The start of the new Congress brings us opportunities to work together on the critical issues confronting our country. No issue is more important than finding an end to the war in Iraq. December was the deadliest month of the war in over two years, pushing U.S. fatality figures over the 3,000 mark.
The American people demonstrated in the November elections that they do not believe your current Iraq policy will lead to success and that we need a change in direction for the sake of our troops and the Iraqi people. We understand that you are completing your post-election consultations on Iraq and are preparing to make a major address on your Iraq strategy to the American people next week.
Clearly this address presents you with another opportunity to make a long overdue course correction. Despite the fact that our troops have been pushed to the breaking point and, in many cases, have already served multiple tours in Iraq, news reports suggest that you believe the solution to the civil war in Iraq is to require additional sacrifices from our troops and are therefore prepared to proceed with a substantial U.S. troop increase.
Surging forces is a strategy that you have already tried and that has already failed. Like many current and former military leaders, we believe that trying again would be a serious mistake. They, like us, believe there is no purely military solution in Iraq. There is only a political solution. Adding more combat troops will only endanger more Americans and stretch our military to the breaking point for no strategic gain. And it would undermine our efforts to get the Iraqis to take responsibility for their own future. We are well past the point of more troops for Iraq.
In a recent appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee, General John Abizaid, our top commander for Iraq and the region, said the following when asked about whether he thought more troops would contribute to our chances for success in Iraq:
“I met with every divisional commander, General Casey, the Corps commander, General Dempsey. We all talked together. And I said, in your professional opinion, if we were to bring in more American troops now, does it add considerably to our ability to achieve success in Iraq? And they all said no. And the reason is, because we want the Iraqis to do more. It’s easy for the Iraqis to rely upon to us do this work. I believe that more American forces prevent the Iraqis from doing more, from taking more responsibility for their own future.”
Rather than deploy additional forces to Iraq, we believe the way forward is to begin the phased redeployment of our forces in the next four to six months, while shifting the principal mission of our forces there from combat to training, logistics, force protection and counter-terror. A renewed diplomatic strategy, both within the region and beyond, is also required to help the Iraqis agree to a sustainable political settlement. In short, it is time to begin to move our forces out of Iraq and make the Iraqi political leadership aware that our commitment is not open ended, that we cannot resolve their sectarian problems, and that only they can find the political resolution required to stabilize Iraq.
Our troops and the American people have already sacrificed a great deal for the future of Iraq. After nearly four years of combat, tens of thousands of U.S. casualties, and over $300 billion dollars, it is time to bring the war to a close. We, therefore, strongly encourage you to reject any plans that call for our getting our troops any deeper into Iraq. We want to do everything we can to help Iraq succeed in the future but, like many of our senior military leaders, we do not believe that adding more U.S. combat troops contributes to success.
We appreciate you taking these views into consideration.
Sincerely,
Harry Reid
Majority Leader
Nancy Pelosi Speaker
Seems Nancy is serious about the 100 hours. She’s off with a bang!
Amazing letter, really! Go Nancy!!
TeddySanFran — following up from last thread.
Did you see the results of this ABC Survey?
Think we need to identify the 57 who would vote against Iraq based on what they know now. We already know 23 of them, just need the rest.
And then Lieberwhore can bite us.
Richmond @ 60
Are the vores linked to the earlier post’s shiny thongs? Isn’t the vore a tiny fat rodent that only comes out of its night-time eating frenzy when a bright light is focused on it? Either that or when they are distracted by sexy things dancing in shimmering shiny thongs.
you might be right but I believe there are rpublicans that are lookinf for any oportunity to throw this president under the bus
they gave him unlimited power and they got contempt and the loss of their power in return
I believe the rats are going to jump ship as soon as jumping is possible
perris — think you’re confusing vores with voles.
And now rats. ;-)
perris @
53
While I agree that the House needs to conduct investigations, I suspect that the House lacks the authority, acting unilaterally, to freeze a company’s assets. As far as Halliburton and its KBR subsidiary are concerned, I think that we will find, while it may prove worthwhile to investigate Hallibrton/KBR’s operations in Iraq, that there are far bigger fish to fry. To express my thoughts another way, let us not focus solely on Halliburton/KBR to the exclusion of investigating what appears to be a much larger plethora of contractors operating in Iraq.
“I believe the rats are going to jump ship as soon as jumping is possible”
It is Friday… jumping day
you know, one thing missing in that letter that would have been the cherry on top of the cream?
if they said;
“you’ve said we can work together to get things accomplished, here is your oportunity to put action where your words are”
or something to that effect…that would have been very kark rovish indeed
So when is Bumble Fuck coming out with his shiny new plan?
Hugh @ 57
Perdita sin amor. How long will the chimp tread water?
Bush is changing out generals with one’s who will agree with him. If more troops are sent in, more troops will die. More troops than ever are dying each day now. The escalation will result in more deaths, ergo it will compound Bush’s failures.
Bush’s only hope is a new conflict. A new conflict (and his media) would make him a hero again.
Richmond @ 65
Hour One: check.
Bustednuckles @ 70
When he is done listening, deliberating, meeting and deciderating.
We must be ready to support our Democratic leaders, as they are supporting us. Time to open the Overton Window with Impeach at the Beach!
If the 100 hours plan goes well, maybe they could consider the 17,520 hour plan?
Never, ever hand a loaded gun to a chimp.
twolf1 @ 77
and into a TRUE American century, one NOT orchestrated by maniacs in some sick fraternity
The Navy has traditionally maintained overseas bases for support of Naval operations and had responsibility for securing and guarding those bases. “Occupation” but on a smaller scale is what the Navy does.
Iraq is not a war, it is an occupation. An occupation does not mean going into combat, it means finding ways to get along with the local population as a adjunct to security.
Bakho @ 80
So putting an admiral in charge of land-based operations, in countries where the locals are actively mad at us, makes perfect sense to you? (Not badmouthing admirals, but this doesn’t seem to me to be the best idea in the world.)
twolf1 @ 74
He never needed time to deliberate before. He shoots from the hip. Relies on his quick mind and gut instinct and God. Why start deliberating now?
Answer is that he is not deliberating anything. His mind is made up. He is simply paving the way for the surge by eliminating dissenters in his organization.
bakho @ 80
EXACTLY
our soldiers SUCCEEDED, the accomplished their mission with UNCANNY efficiency, occupying a country is political, our soldiers are NOT a political branch, they are NOT escorts, they are NOT a security force, they are NOT painters for their schoolhouses.
this is the way we need to frame this discussion, our soldiers DID NOT FAIL, the president failed, he and he alone
Do we have a President or a Dictator?
I’m perfectly serious.
What’s next? Marshall Law?
jayt @ 15
My take exactly!
David Ehrenstein @ 84
Nitpicking here (I get tired of this spelling error) – it’s ‘martial’ law.
Marshal – someone who marshals things, or a law enforcement officer of some flavor
Marshall – a personal or family name
Now back to our regularly scheduled political noises.
Bush: Same shite, different day.
OT – Krugman on health care (out from behind NYT firewall.)
P J Evans @ 85
Peter Marshall – erstwhile host of Hollywood Squares.
Proton @ 78
Hand grenades, OTOH…
;>)
Nothin’ more t’ see here, little ladies, everyone jus’ move along now, folks.
_
Rayne @
66
http://mydd.com/
28 indicated they would vote differently knowing then what they know now:
1. Sen. Max Baucus, R-Mont.
2. Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind.
3. Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del.
4. Former Sen. John Breaux, D-La.
5. Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash.
6. former Sen. Jean Carnahan, D-Mo.
7. Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del.
8. Former Sen. Max Cleland, R-Ga.
9. Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y.
10. Former Majority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D.
11. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn.
12. Former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C.
13. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.
14. Former Sen. Peter Fitzgerald, R-Ill.
15. Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa
16. Former Sen. Fritz Hollings, D-S.C.
17. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas
18. Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.
19. Sen. Herb Kohl, R-Wis.
20. Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La.
21. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla.
22. Former Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell, R-Colo.
23. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.
24. Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.
25. Sen. Gordon Smith, R-Ore.
26. Former Sen. Bob Smith, R-N.H.
27. Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine
28. Former Sen. Bob Torricelli, R-N.J.
5 said the intelligence in retrospect was so wrong the matter would never even have been voted on:
1. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.
2. Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine
3. Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa
4. Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D.
5. Former Sen. Mike DeWine, R-Ohio
1 said the intelligence in retrospect was so wrong Congress never would have passed it:
1. Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa.
15 stood by their vote:
1. Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo.
2. Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan.
3. Sen. Joe Lieberman, ID-Conn.
4. Former Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn.
5. Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah
6. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
7. Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb.
8. Sen. Dick Lugar, R-Ind.
9. Sen. Craig Thomas, R-Wyo.
10. Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla.
11. Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan.
12. former Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa.
13. former Sen. George Allen, R-Va.
14. Sen. Mike Crapo, R-Idaho
15. Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho
While troops die in Iraq, Rep. Virginia Foxx finds it necessary to drone on and on about college football on the house floor (live on C-SPAN)
hackworth @ 89
Hollywood Squares seems like a good model of how the Bush Administration really operates.
I did not know that Idaho had two idiot senators. Makes me feel a little better about being a Floridian.
Marshal Willenholly
I agree. X gets the square.
njr — nice work!
And now we know the Senators to whom we put our requests for:
- revision of AUMF
- revision of military budget and funding bills
- denial of any AUMF for Iran
- denial of any spending related to Iran
;-)
Ms Sparks rocks on new post upstairs
Rayne @ 98
and we need to hurry
Maybe there’s hope for Hastert?
njr @ 92
Cleland is/was a “D”, most definitely not an “R”.
coulda sworn I heard somebody say, just yesterday, that Lugar’s reconsidering….
Sorry, gang. Couldn’t resist this one from overheardinnewyork.com:
New Thread, folks. Spin I’m In
Libby’s Jury Instructions
January 05, 2007
by emptywheel
[…]
mar / shill / awe
As much as one would hope to not have one’s
cynicism validated once again the Bush WH comes
through loud and clear. The strategy is to sand
bag any newly minted “congressional oversight”
with a slam-wham-bam “new” Bush WH Iraq policy.
New “commanders” will request “time” to come up
to speed and “study situation in Iraq” and put
in place new and surely much “improved” Bush WH
Iraq plan. Call it a load of crap or a new and
brave new thrust. Same result. Bush WH buys
time–the idea plainly being to move Iraq War
into a circle pattern–get to Jan.2009 and dump
the whole crapmess into next President’s lap.
Cynicism fully warranted. Bush goes on to claim
his “victory” and the oil corporatists reward
him richly in known and unknown ways. The
DEMS should call this just for what it is. A
pile of Bush WH crap and call G.W.Bush on his
big lies and craveness.
Badwater @
48
Or maybe he meant ones that were “on the ground” from having drunk themselves into a stupor, like he did when he was in the TANG.
Biodun @
104
pretty funny… I heard drunk republicans in a bar loudly proclaiming now that Saddam is dead, we can bring the troops home…
good enough for me… whatever works.
Professor Foland @
55
by god, the people have spoken!
P J Evans @
81
col. lang over at “sic semper tyrannis” has the answer for you ……
John Casper @ 106
ohhh, fitz fix
perris @
83
him and his minions …..
Patrick McHenry (R-Whinnerland) is on the c-span…
what’s he? the new R hatchetman?
njr @
92
victory has a thousand fathers, but in this case ignominious defeat seems to be headed for a paternity suit …….
Bill O’ talks out his ass: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0105.html
Hugh @
58
Hugh,
you are right, of course, as you frequently are and this is the absolute truth of the matter — the Iraq occupation IS already a failure and that fact is readily known to most lucid thinking people. I should amend my statements to state more succinctly that I am sincerely concerned about allowing this administration to slink away from this failure before the absolute collapse of the occupation (a dangerous fighting retreat as SteveG has outlined several times); because, if that comes to pass, the remaining 29% of non-lucid thinking people will somehow find a way to lay that blame at the feet of those who preside over the inevitable, undeniable and incontrovertible defeat of the American forces.
I think that enough real statesmanship over the next 2-4 years will result in a circumstance whereby the American occupation can admit a defeat and leave in a protracted, organized and humiliated fashion. That is what I believe will result in the fewest deaths on all sides.
What I fear from a reality whereby those events come to pass is that, a) CheneyCo and the authoritarians he represents will live to revise history and fight with other people’s children another day; and b), the geo-political importance of that fertile crescent will be wide open for an Iranian/Russian/Chinese contingency to rush in and take control.
In the long run, I believe that the negatives of situation b) will be outweighed by necessarily forcing the mother of invention upon the American public when we must move away from a petroleum based economy. But those ramifications would be, at best a score of years into the future (a full baker’s dozen of years further than the average conservative thinker can even conceive). Still, that would probably be about a decade sooner than the juggernaut of Global Warming forces the American public to that realization, so maybe it will be a net gain. If so, those will be thirty tough years for America.
My romantic heart longs to have me imagine that the necessity of invention and survival for America in those intervening years will be spear headed and driven by some of the brave young souls who’s lives will be spared by taking the more protracted retreat.
If allowing CheneyCo to escape the immediate embarrassment of a complete collapse in the Iraq occupation is the price that needs to be paid now to save more kids lives, then I would make that choice. I just want someone to assure me that it is a valid syllogism and not just my usual naive supposition.
Hi scarecrow, these are good observations and questions. I don’t know where the outrage is, either.
I don’t know why they chose a naval aviator to run CENTCOM. Your speculation may be the right one – I’m hoping instead that it’s just because he agrees with Bush about what to do in Iraq.
I wrote a couple of days ago on my blog that we were going to have to impeach Bush in order to get out of Iraq before 2009. I was expecting at least a few remarks along the lines of “Do you really think that’s necessary? Can’t we …?” Instead, nothing, nada. It’s like we here on this side of the political spectrum accept this already, and any folks who are in the middle and reasonable are probably wondering if that’s what it might come down to.
OldCoastie @ 115
He’s the new Jean Schmidt – willing to say “what needs to be said” so that he can attract attention to himself. At least, that’s my guess.
Cujo359 @
120
yeah, that sounds right…
Lou Costello @
117
God, I heard Bill’s rant this morning on the Stephanie Miller show. I’ve heard he has this history of bringing on lightweight leftists guests just so he can berate them (what a coward), but this woman did nothing other than state her point. I wonder why people have ever given that fool any credence?
Bargain Countertenor @ 35
Short of that, I commend Impeach for Peace, Do it yourself impeachment process info. I don’t have the site but enter the above for search.
Welcome back Scarecrow. You’ve been missed.
Pray for peace.
john in california @
20
Only, I wonder: Is it possible that the generals recognize all the damage he has done to the military and are willing to forestall further damage by limiting the number of troops they will commit? We all know he has broken the U.S. Army; the brass must know this better than anyone. Could we be seeing a defiance in this demurral?
Bush and Cheney need some brown-nose officers in place to implement their next “escalation” of hostilities in the Middle East.
Any nukes in the area are probably on U.S. naval vessels in the Persian Gulf. Thus, a brown-nosing Admiral is chosen to head CentCom, probably because he’ll blindly follow orders to nuke Iran.
Wow, we’ve definitely come a long way.
President Truman fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur because he proposed nuking the Red Chinese during the Korean War.
Now, Bush has chosen an Admiral who will follow orders and drop the first nukes since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Democrats, now in charge of Congress, should immediately call these brown-nose generals before them and ask them some very, very tough questions, before Bush and Cheney do something even more stupid and deranged than their starting an unnecessary war with Iraq.
Two more years, two more year, two more years…
http://www.minor-ripper.blogspot.com
[Mod Note; If you add your url to your profile, it will appear when other folks click your name. That way we avoid any questions of blog whoring. OK?]
Help get this right-wing fool thrown off the air!!!
Didn’t CNN get the message from the last election….that the American public has rejected the right-wing extremist agenda?
Why is CNN giving prime-time every night to the ultra-right-wing extremist, Glenn Beck?
Please take just 10 seconds to click on this link and send a message to CNN telling them we don’t want the airwaves innundated by this idiotic
low-grade right-wing propaganda!
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?69