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I just wanted to point out something that gave me a lot of hope today. Sue mentioned it in the FDL comments -- over at the WaPo, in response to Joe Lieberman's Op-Ed calling for a "troop surge," there are 37 pages of negative responses. When the Deborah Howell incident happened, I recognized many of the names -- Paul Lukasiak, Brad DeLong, TeddySanFran and other regulars at various and sundry blogs heavily populated the pages. But as I scanned through the 37 pages of people calling out Lieberman and his magical plan for "success" in Iraq for being the folly that it most assuredly is, I didn't recognize a one. No, people just spontaneously showed up and were appalled that anyone could be promoting this kind of lunacy. The response to Lieberman's call for escallation in the war was loud, forthright and agressive -- no more.
Digby points us to Brilliant at Breakfast where Ned Lamont perches near the top of Jill's "Best of 2006" list, and I wholeheartedly agree. The Vietnam war lasted for over a decade and cost the lives of 58,000 Americans. I firmly believe that if Ned Lamont had not been willing to take on Joe Lieberman, the anti-war sentiment we are now seeing would never have achieved this kind of popular acceptance. Democrats were told it was "political suicide" to mention the war in the months before November, and Ned Lamont proved that wrong. There is not a politician on Capitol Hill who will look at those 37 pages of comments and not realize that precisely the opposite is true -- continued support for this war could end a political career.
People who believe that victory is measured simply by chalk marks in a win/loss column have no idea how long-term battles are waged. If this war ends one day sooner or one less person has to die because 37 pages worth of Americans tell Joe Lieberman enough with his vanity war, every bit of effort that you, or I, or Ned Lamont, or anyone else expended toward that end was worth it.
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Fitz!
EXACTLY, Jane…
your alma mater is doing pretty well this afternoon, Jane…
As a non-blogger just wanted to add one more name to the 37 you cited. Still shocked that Holy Joe flummoxed the folks in his state, and just hope he isn’t the vote that let’s this insanity continue for another two years.
Escalation only means that we will lose more at a faster rate. Lunacy thy name is Lieberman.
Hopefully this is relevant in this thread. Families of the Fallen for Change
I’ve no truck with the Lieberman thing. Lamont was defeated by shadowy forces folks don’t want to discuss openly for fear of reprisal.
Cindy Sheehan and John Murtha deserve a lot more support for setting these forces in motion to abort this illconceived war. Funny way of putting it as so many righttolifers support this war.
Cindy is a modern Joan of Arc–”Our Lady of the Ditch!” Be in Wassington Thursday, Jan 4 to tell this new Congress they weren’t put there to keep doing business as usual.
Actually, Keith Olbermann made the top of the list, but Ned is there too. What Ned did was make it possible for a candidate to run against the war. If the Lamont we saw in the general election was the same one who ran in the primary, I think he would have won. I am 100% convinced that Hillary sent her Washington consultants up there to get Lamont to fuck up and allow Lieberman to win. It just didn’t make sense that she would turn her back on the DLC and support Lamont otherwise.
Apparently Rape Gurney Joe doesn’t care who is on the gurney, where they are, or whether their need for medical care is because of a felony crime or a war crime. Holy Joe cares about his own importance and place in the Big Decisions. He doesn’t give a crap about the suffering that others go through…..only that he is weighing in on the side that holds the strings of power for the time being.
It will be both sad and funny to see how he responds to the wave that is going to hit in 2007 and 2008.
There was a reason that so many of us went to CT to work for Ned. This states it pretty well. I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
Thank you Jane for cluing us in and inviting us to get active. Now that we have begun, we will continue until we have the country back and the war over. And then we will work some more.
I think “vanity” has a lot to do with Lieberman’s constant promotion of the Iraq war. But some little thing keeps nagging at me that there is something other than plain vanity at work here, relating to Lieberman’s motivation for escalation. Perhaps I’m wrong on this.
the new year brings renewed vigor to my daily affirmation:
my contempt for Joe Lieberman will never subside.
1,382 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
What a wonderful statement of the purpose and goal of the anti Iraq War movement that now defines our politics: “If this war ends one day sooner or one less person has to die…”
That is the call to action, that is the response to those who argue the futility of direct action against the war. The political education about the levers of power and mechanisms of terror and intimidation and their links to massive economic movements of wealth that comes from people working together against the war machine is the product of direct action. The blogosphere has stimulated the beginning of a process that is inexorable and undeniable…the coming together of people united for a common purpose that can change the world as we know it.
I don’t think that anything can stop what has been started in the anti Iraq War movement…and I think that the politicians are not gunna have a choice in the face of people-power in the streets. The institutions of reactionary power, including the Supreme Court, are gunna defy populist demands but I don’t think anything can stop the political changes that are comin’ as a result of opposition to this war.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE BATTLE HAS JUST BEGUN!!
RevDeb @
10
Where are we going next, RevDeb? I’ll pack my camera. ;)
Jane, not even one commenter, say on page 8?
Senator Joe - July 6,2006 QUOTE So I am confident that the situation is improving enough on the ground that by the end of this year, we will begin to draw down significant numbers of American troops, and by the end of the next year more than half of the troops who are there now will be home. /QUOTE Youll say anything to get elected, right Joe? And heck, it isn-t like your kids are going to get killed in Iraq. So much for the last honest man. Gag.
By ifthethunderdontgetya | Dec 29, 2006 7:52:00 AM | Request Removal
my contempt for Joe Lieberman will never subside.
The DLC is a very distasteful little outfit, with way too much influence. And. “The DLC gave strong support for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.”
spazeboy @ 14
Next we need you and Bob and Al to teach the rest of us how to do what you did so that we are ready to fan out and catch the bad guys (and gals) in their lies and do it on tape, then post it for all the world to see.
Lieberman is an obsequious twit and a coward. He will start back tracking as soon as he realizes that things will not swing in his direction. In other words, he will start lying again.
I passed on reading CT4L’s op-ed earlier, because I already knew what he wrote. But the 37 pages of comments!
My favorite - Bring my son home!
It appears WaPo may have stopped printing new comments…
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 15
I believe Lieberman’s 19 year old son was sent off recently (out of harms way) to study in Israel.
Oklahoma kiddo @
11
It could be pressure from or loyalty to a powerful looby group.
RevDeb @ 17
My life recently got 10x busier, but I would love to put some sort of tutorial or panel or something together over the summer, well in advance of the big 2008 business (both political and personal).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 11
You and me both! And it begins with I.
congrats, spazeboy!
The best way to support the soldiers in Iraq is to bring them home.
spazeboy @ 22
WOW and CONGRATS! When do you plan to tie the knot?
spazeboy,
10x busier? Ha. ha. ha…you can wish.
congrats! My wife and family have made me 30x busier and 40x more proud, fulfilled, frustrated and so on.
Oklahoma kiddo @
11
Don’t think you’re wrong at all OKiddo - the “other vanity” you speak of is his massive ego. Ned Lamont is everything Lieberman is not: a true public servant, patriot and a truly great American patriot.
I just hope it’s not gonna get lost in the shuffle that Murtha has worked so hard to put an end to this war. He deserves an enormous amount of thanks, and I, for one, think he deserved the second in command position. I haven’t gotten over that yet, and it changed my thinking on just how effective the democrats in Congress will be, since they didn’t even seem to know what a real leader looks like when they had the chance. Instead, we got Steny Hoyer, who also would say anything as long as he can maintain his hold on his power base. So what does that say about the vast majority that voted for him?
16,273 deaths reported in Iraq in 2006
The tabulation by the Iraqi ministries of Health, Defense and Interior, showed that 14,298 civilians, 1,348 police and 627 soldiers were killed in the violence that raged in the country last year.
newspaperbrat @ 28
The key comment showed up in Blog Wars where James and Will from the BBC were interviewing Joe about why he was in such a tough race. Joe said “Because somebody had the AUDACITY to think he could do a better job . . . ” Audacity indeed!
It’s all about Joe. It has always been all about Joe.
1382 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen oklahoma kiddo:
“But some little thing keeps nagging at me that there is something other than plain vanity at work here…”
You and I both kiddo…could it be the synergy between payoffs from corporate profiteers and his loyalty to the foreign policy of another nation state other than the USA?
But be patient, this is one of the many questions that will be answered as we keep pullin on the thread of lies woven around this war…there are some BIG changes comin’ down. All we hafta do is stay focused on the war and the shrinking political forces supporting it…all will be revealed in it’s time. GO WAXMAN, CONNYERS AND LEAHY!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP YER EYES ON THE PRIZE!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 25
The best way to support our soldiers would have been to never have sent them to Iraq in the first place.
Arguments against the invasion were shut down by “Support the Troops” factions before they were even committed to action.
“I told you so” is seldom a productive argument, but until the people who ignored and shut down intelligent discussion if the first place are removed from future discussions,
it is perfectly valid.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 11
Is this an oblique reference to the same over compensation as exampled in Lord Farquaad’s castle in Shrek?
Ann in AZ @ 29
I look at the Murtha thing as a troubling sign. How it all plays out remains to be seen, though. The DLC still have a great deal of control of the party, and they aren’t going away. Working around them and through them will both be necessary.
On another subject entirely, congratulations, spazeboy!
1,382 DAYS AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Mack:
Bring ‘em home ,brother!! When we get the kids home and face the massive wreckage that is our economy and politics resulting from this war we will have the answers and those responsible will be answerable.
KEEP THE FAITH AND NO PARDONS UNTIL CONVICTION!!!
The “McCain/Lieberman Plan” meme needs to be repeated over and over. Hang the escalation around their necks like an anvil. “Shot His Friend in the Face” made it to the MSM from the blogs let’s do the same with the “McCain/Lieberman Plan”.
RevDeb @ 26
Spazegirl is pushing for a summer 2008 wedding. It’s an election year, but if I ever want to see the ‘08 Democratic Pres. nominee sworn in I’ll keep my trap shut.
I didn’t get everything I wanted in 2006 *cough*Senator Lamont*cough* but damn close. I had the best year ever, and got the best girl ever.
I heard Connie (Condi’s cousin) Rice recently on Travis Smiley. She too wondered why with all of the disasters, corruption, and incompetence associated with the Republicans and the Bush Administration the elections had not resulted in an even stronger rejection of the Bush and the Republicans.
“There is not a politician on Capitol Hill who will look at those 37 pages of comments and not realize that precisely the opposite is true..”
I can name one — George (fuck)Wad Bush.
Cujo359 @ 35
I would be much more comfortable if we could break up some of that control that the DLC has. They’ll no doubt be backing Hillary, who I just don’t feel is the right candidate at th right time. I’ll only vote for her if she is picked as Al Gore’s VP, and then only so I can vote for Gore. I really think he’s the one. But I don’t think he’d pick her. Obama or Edwards would both make a better running mate. So would Dean.
OK-kiddo..that nagging feeling is possibly the thing that should not be mentioned.
From lieberman.senate.gov..August 31, ‘04
“AIPAC is an organization of American patriots committed to promoting America’s interest in strengthening ties with our democratic ally Israel. Since its founding fifty years ago, AIPAC has served its fellow Americans by promoting peace, justice and security in the Middle East and beyond. AIPAC deserves our gratitude and support for its important service and devotion to our country.”
Hugh @ 39
Connie Rice is refreshing - and clearly not a kissin’ cousin of Condi.
I think Lieberman and probably McCain are underestimating the blogosphere at their own peril. After barely holding onto his seat by the skin of his teeth, with a lot of whining, obfuscation and shady campain dealings, Joe thinks he can ignore us and we will go away. Apparently he doesn’t realize 2006 was the first salvo in a whole big can of wupass and his seat IS NOT safe for the next 6 years. There are a whole lot of people who are not going to quit bringing all his sleazy dealings to light and sooner than later he is going to do something that he won’t be able to buy or whine his way out of. The blogosphere is the online voice of the grassroots and we are only going to get stronger. Accountability is the new black and Joe is a fashion disaster.
spazeboy @ 38
If I’m still around and if you need someone to officiate, let me know. It’s always more fun to work with people I know and help them through the process of writing a ceremony *g*
Great post, as per usual. Thanks.
Speaking of Joe, 1) what ever happened to the queries about the primary computer jamming (too small a server?) and the huge chunk of change spent without proper accounting, and 2) has anyone looked closely at what his wife is shilling for $ and how Joe has voted? Just saying….
Watching old reruns of M*A*S*H on TVLand. Right now is the episode where Hawkeye writes the letter to his dad. It was so funny and so sad at the same time. Can’t say that anything happening in Iraq is at all funny and sad doesn’t begin to describe it.
Richmond @ 46
I do believe those are the sleazy dealing Kelven at 43 is referring to.
Richmond @ 46
The hacking myth has been officially exposed and of course the media gave it one big collective yawn. As to the $384,000 used for “petty cash” we are all still waiting to find out what that was about. Will we ever get an answer? hard to know, but I hope it was used for very illegal purposes and we can find his fingerprints on it.
Yup, Thanks Ann, missed the sleazy dealing bit earlier. Remember some of the biggest criminals were brought down through simple things like tax fraud.
Ed*ard Teller @
19
I did notice that. They shut it down or it would’ve been much worse.
Looks like Holy Joe is getting quite and earful over at WaPo. Maybe it’s not what he hoped for, but then again, perhaps it was just a trial balloon in advance of his buddy Bush’s so called “surge”. I hear Bill Krystol was on the teevee today endorsing Joe’s vision. They’ve started talking to themselves, clearly no one else is listening.
So glad that many took the time to inform WaPo that Joe is not a member of the Democratic Party, but a member of the CFJL party. It is important that people are reminded that Lieberman was rejected by the Democratic voters of Conn. Another thing to remember, didn’t Joe supposedly beat Ned by exactly the same number of votes he beat his last opponent with? Very strange, no? Lieberman can pose and strut all he wants, but basically he’s done as a serious politician. He has zero cred. That’s the only thing about Joe Lieberman that makes me happy.
Kelven @
43
Anyone notice Ellen Tauscher running her mouth to the New York Times since the California bloggers threatened to primary her?
Me either.
Richmond @ 50
We’ll just have to stay on this guy like glue. He’s gonna have to get so tired of being challenged with every utterance that he’ll wish he hadn’t won the election after all.
Thank you for the insight and the WaPo link. The replies are shocking in their vitriol,numbers, and consistency- and from freaking Washington Post readers! I love it. I just love it. I remember when reading progressive blogs was the only way I could avoid feeling like a voice in the wilderness. Now. Hey, this feels real good. I’m eager to find out what trick Bush and his “National Security Team (what a joke)created at the ranch.
Boudica @ 52
It was nice that so many pointed that out. It seemed to be a consistent theme.
Congrats Spazeboy!
And Jill - great list and great comments - the Had Enough crew is very proud of the mention!
ifthethunderdontgetya @
15
I did cop to scanning. I woulda recognized ya, ifthethunderdontgetya.
;)
Ann in AZ @ 41
I’d like to see the DLS marginalized, also. They gave us the last two presidential candidates, and look how that went. Unfortunately, that’s going to take awhile, even though it seems obvious that they can’t win any more. The problem is that they still get much of the big money, largely because they’re the “business friendly” wing of the party.
Don’t buy into the myth that Iraq is not as deadly as Vietnam. If you scale up the numbers, then Iraq is just as deadly.
Vietnam was 4 times longer (13 vs 3 years)
Vietnam had 4 times the troops (500,000 vs 130,000)
Multiply 3,000 x 4 x 4 = 48,000
And that is with better body armor and medical advances. Bottom line: the chances of a US soldier being killed in Iraq are the same as Vietnam. If we Escalate (like Vietnam) and stay there for thirteen years, then the body count will be the same, but the seriously wounded will probably be greater.
Ann in AZ @ 54
I don’t think that Keith and Bob and Maura et al in CT are about to let Joe get away with anything. He sneezes in the wrong direction and we will know about it.
Then again, he has no reason to go back to CT for a visit (something he didn’t do anyway until Ned challenged him) so he won’t be quite as easy to catch. But we also have an able crew in the D.C. area with pretty good radar for lies and graft.
Hope Joe enjoys all the “love” he will continue to get from us.
Excellent point. This needs to get out there. Add to this, key differences. Now we have all these National Guard members who are involved. There is major depression (50%) among the troops, more serious injuries (head injuries), their families are not being taken care of (unlike enlisted soldiers), and many will lose their jobs because they are away so long.
Pectopah @ 60
When DOD releases the escalating death stats do they factor in wounded who end of dying from their injuries?
When DOD releases the escalating death stats do they factor in wounded who end of dying from their injuries?
I think it depends on how soon they die. There is alot going into keeping the death count low, and not in the way most people think.
Has anyone checked Drudge recently? He seems pretty defanged since the election. Even their is one piece up pointing out that Reagon supported Saddam. Outside of that there is football, and little else.
Jane,
If you did not notice any of the usual suspects in WaPo comments section, it because you and the other progressive blogs have educated us “lurkers” so well, and we finally had enough. It is thanks to you.
We need to get after our reps in DC every chance we can to end this mess, no funding, no mas.
The WaPoo Joementum is just one little sign of our numbers.
There is a solid majority of people who now want the war to be ended, and this includes soldiers who have lost the faith.
I have totally effing had enough, and I am sure going to be letting my reps in Washington hear about it.
I’m itching to know where the next big thing is going to happen, because I don’t think it will be in Connecticut. What happened (started?) with Ned Lamont challenging Joe Lieberman in Connecticut will have to happen elsewhere too–and I hope it’s somewhere close by.
I mean, If 37 pages worth of regular folks “get it” about Lieberman, who else can we shine some light on?
OK its a slow night. I should be working too. Noticed a plethora of spelling mistakes in my 65 entry. Time to go.
Those 37 pages were a total delight.
Pardon? What pardon? Toss him in the slammer and throw away the key!!!
Richmond @ 64
I think it depends on how soon they die. There is alot going into keeping the death count low, and not in the way most people think.
Thanks Richmond. Anyone happen to know if anyone or any group is monitoring DOD in regard to this or are we expected to trust DOD and/or the service branch of the critically injured who sooner or later die from related injuries? There are so many lies from the current administration I take everything they say with a healthy dose of skepticism.
Richmond @ 65..Out of theater deaths are counted. There is a private group that monitors DoD numbers, newspapers for obits and other sources in-order to trac casualties.
www.icasualties.org/oif/
Bu$hcon is disintegrating, but McCain/Lieberman is attempting to pick up the neocon torch.
Keep at them people, keep at them!
Richmond @ 69
Apparently we need a tutorial on how to do correction once we’ve published! I tried to correct my typo, but I haven’t figured out how yet (twice.) And, BG, it must be nice to be able to tell your rep anything. Unfortunately, I come from AZ and all my direct reps are Republiscams (sigh.) But at least we got rid of Hayworth this year. At least that’s a major accomplishment worth mentioning.
Steve @ 72
Thanks Steve - so appreciate the linky too.
With apologies, I haven’t read the comments — I am in the midst of too much of everything. I just want to say thank you, Jane. Ned Lamont was and still is a hero. He did what few others were willing to do.
Joe Lieberman makes me want to vomit.
spazeboy @ 68
The next big challenge, at least in the NE will be in NH with Sununu running in ‘08. Rumor has it that Jean Shaheen will repeat her challenge. She was “defeated” partially with the help if the phone jamming that was engineered by the RNC. This race is entirely winnable as NH is turning blue day by day.
As for turncoat dems to go after, the next few months will tell us a lot, methinks.
Pectopah @
60
I served in the Army during Vietnam. All draftees (with the notable exception of 10,000 drafted into the USMC in 1966) who went to Vietnam did one 13-month tour. Most 3-year enlistees did only one tour.
I know kids now on their third and fourth deployment since 2002. So their chances of becoming a casualty are significantly higher than Vietnam if you go by Pectopah’s measure at #60.
The kids drafted into the USAMC in ‘66 were often kept in Vietnam far past the end of their tour.
newspaperbrat @ 76
It is not my area, but I have read (NYTimes?) that only those who die within a set period of returning are counted. In other words, those who commit suicide after 6 months in the U.S. don’t count, or those who die from complications after a given period.
Wait, I just realized, Joe Lieberman IS vomit.
Some crap on NBC news right now about the first U.S. soldiers to die. “The war was new and popular then. . .”
THIS WAR WAS NEVER POPULAR!
RevDeb @ 78
As for turncoat dems to go after, the next few months will tell us a lot, methinks.
I have my eye on Susan Collins. I hope Maine gets someone to go against her. She is hardly a moderate.
Steve @ 73
That site lists 148 deaths among American contractors. Many of them are security guards, “consultants”, or trainers. These are jobs that would probably have been done by American military personnel in past wars. This is another way to keep the apparent casualty rates lower than the true rates. We don’t count these as combat deaths, either.
Richard @65 Here’s another one that tracks the numbers:
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/
David Ehrenstein @ 81
then why did Bush get reelected?
former marine in ny @ 73
I hope the republican whoremasters think that these two fuckwads would make a team for the presidency….against say…Edwards and Obama..
oh please oh please….
Listening the News Hour this evening with the Cheney clip on former President Ford it sounds to me like they’ve resurrected Karen Hughes and she is ghost-writing for the felonious Bush/Cheney team again.
Ed*ard Teller @ 79 The other factor is the ratio of support to combat troops. In Vietnam it was about 10/1, in Iraq as best I can determine, it is about 2/1. In Iraq many of the support jobs have been out-sourced to KBR, etc. Of the 57,000 troops to be sent to Iraq over the next few months as part of “troop rotation”, 20,000 are combat.
Speaking of pro-war people who are losing - Katie Couric - she of Limbaugh fan fame. Her numbers are not so good.
OT - Where’s Obama?
Richmond @ 82
I’ve been hearing talk that Tom Allen may run against her. If so, it would be a hot contest and definitely winnable.
Ed*ard Teller @ 79
So much for shared sacrifice.
Steve @ 89
It is, and this reflects a trend that’s been going on in DoD generally. For the last couple of decades, support and training jobs that have been done by soldiers are now being done by civilians, and they almost always are contractors, not civil service.
lina @ 85
Rigged voteing machines…like that 18,000 missing votes down south.There wont be fair elections until those paperless abominations are outlawed
twolf1 @ 91
This is truly disgusting. One would hope that Obama, Dean and the Dems would get all over this, and with a lawsuit.
to Hugh @39 ~
the reason the defeat was not greater is that the machines were not programmed to switch the number of votes necessary to throw the election to the Rethugs. Had Rove correctly understood the feelings of the electorate, those voting machines would have been programmed “correctly”.
Don’t you remember his saying, “you may have the numbers but I have the numbers.”?
His numbers were wrong; the election went to the Dems - no matter how narrow the margin.
I can only imagine how a true count would have been an overwhelming mandate for the Dems.
Ann in AZ–check this out. He**her Wilson just visited Iraq with one of yours–Rick Renzi. S/he is now saying no on surge. . .this is after years of being a yes wo/man for Bush. (Sorry, I am sick of he/her’s bizarre sexuality and double standards, so I now use any combo to refer to he/her.)
So maybe Renzi has had it too…I don’t care what Wilson says, I intend to be after he/her at every opportunity.
Troops Out Now!!
Richmond @ 96
don’t hold your breath… but I hear Bin Laden may file suit.
Pectopah @
67
Thanks for de-lurking.
lina @
86
Perhaps Mr. Bush was not reelected. Did they cheat again?
twolf1 @ 99
LOL! Nice one.
Richmond at #79: It is not my area, but I have read (NYTimes?) that only those who die within a set period of returning are counted. In other words, those who commit suicide after 6 months in the U.S. don’t count, or those who die from complications after a given period.
I don’t consider this so unusual in that it happens in every war. I remember that my aunt’s husband (the father of my cousin) died of shell shock years after the war. The story was that he came home with a “tick.” They tried to go on with life and proceeded to start a family but he died of war injuries received years earlier. I doubt that his death was counted.
I do think, though, that we are going to have an extremely jaded bunch of young men coming home, considering the autrocities they’ve seen and may have participated in. Even just seeing that video of soldiers leading young Iraqi kids (who likely didn’t even know what they were saying) being led in a chorus of “Fuck Iraq” for the soldiers amusement tells me a lot. I hope that’s all most of them did that they should be embarrassed about.