It is probably the height of arrogance to think one's own judgments will be history's judgments and perhaps the hanging of Sadaam Hussein will be lost amidst the unspeakable tragedy of the hundreds of thousands of those who lie dead in Iraq, many most assuredly by his own hand, but I had to turn the TV off yesterday in the midst of the ghoulish execution watch and today I feel a bit dirty. There's a funny taste in my mouth and everything feels wrong and out of sorts. Perhaps it is not the final coda to the events of 9/11, but it is most certainly some sort of interstitial bookend and I cannot help but feel that as a nation we failed.
We are not what we pretend to be. As Americans we like to believe that we act with wisdom and good judgment, and those on the right who cheered on this war most vociferously did so out of a conviction that we are a nation possessed of indominable moral rectitude. Even as they claimed the right as the world's policemen to dethrone and execute Saddam Hussein for his crimes against humanity, they openly mock Jimmy Carter for his insistence that human rights be placed in the vanguard of American foreign policy considerations. For this he is considered weak and naive. In the end I just don't believe that more than one in a hundred Americans knew that Saddam was ostensibly executed for his role in the 1982 killing of 148 Shiite Muslims, nor did they care. I would be willing to bet more still believed that Saddam had ties to Al-Quaeda, a role in the 9/11 hijackings or god help us all, weapons of mass destruction. Somewhere in the distance between political opportunism and national bloodlust the reasons for his death can be found. It's a fetid pile of refuse I'm not particularly interested in picking at just now.
Any sympathy I might feel for Saddam's plight would find him standing at the end of a very long line of victims of this war, and it's not even an abhorrance of the death penalty that moves me today (although I most certainly feel that this is nothing a civilized nation has any place engaging in). That sickened feeling in my stomach seems to mark some kind of new low to which we have fallen, murder as PR to inch the arctic approval ratings of the pathalogical boy king and his disastrous war incrementally upward. Codpiece justice and death-as-photo-op reign supreme. Perhaps this is just the last, gruesome swan song of a morally bankrupt right wing as it exits center stage, the perverse final chorus it sings in its death throes.
It is nonetheless hideous to behold.
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There are no words.
You are so right.
Jane, I can feel how heavy your heart is in your words. Namaste.
And yet, on the freeper-type boards they’re rejoicing.
It’s enough to give me the runs.
I haven’t been able to watch any of it. Instead, the dvds of West Wing. I long for leaders who embody what our country says it stands for, the values that put justice, mercy and peace at the top of the list.
I am numb. period.
It should have bin Laden.
Greenwald on the double standard.
I surely hope that W. and his entourage are eventually put before a court to answer for all of the lies they have told and the deaths they are responsible for.
RevDeb @ 5
Edwards? He feels like that to me.
CT Bob, yeah, it should have bin.
Oh, damn. Did we lose our innocence again?
Mommybrain @ 8
I wanted to go to the bloggers’ meet and greet with him yesterday in NH but way too much to do including studying materials for a job phone interview this morning.
I don’t know if Edwards is it. I have heard that he is a finger in the wind kind of guy and that’s not what I want. Time will tell.
I am not committed to anyone at this point in time, nor do I care a lot really. I want to see the dems in congress DO SOMETHING to hold these domestic terrorists responsible for all of the evil they have done.
Once again I am moved to quote the late Dr. Hunter S. Thompson: “How low do you have to stoop to be president of the United States?”
OT – Ford funeral pallbearers at Andrews AFB include Cheney, Rummy and Greenspan. currently on CNN
Mommybrain @ 10
Hopefully we’ll actually start looking for him now.
But I doubt it.
Sadly, Jane, this is one of the best things you’ve written.
Thanks for it. And yes, even today, I’ll bet 99% of everyone everywhere has never heard of Dujail.
And for the folks at Halabja, who suffered much worse atrocities, well, their deaths weren’t politically expedient, so never mind.
Political theater, nothing more, nothing less.
That was a great post Jane. Especially:
That sickened feeling in my stomach seems to mark some kind of new low to which we have fallen, murder as PR to inch the arctic approval ratings of the pathological boy king and his disastrous war incrementally upward.
twolf1 @ 14
This is a funeral I would love to see Rev. Fred Phelps attend.
ccmask @ 16
Is that what it is? My stomach has been on a low grade upset for a couple of weeks now. Been wondering . . .
Jane, I’ve been in lurking-mode for a long time now (just haven’t really had anything to add to what folks here say), but your words just brought me out of the woodwork. I think this is perhaps the finest piece you’ve written. Your words, and Riverbend’s, have not made for a very tranquil day, but I’m not sure how any of us will find *genuinely tranquil* again: all those souls. I feel like I’ve been plopped on a mountain of skulls, though I’m not quite sure how Saddam’s murder has sharpened that image for me. sigh.
I have a really bad feeling about this, a lot like I felt when Cheney invaded Iraq. No good will come of it and our kids in uniform are going to bear the brunt of the shitstorm that’s going to come down because of this act.
bilzim @ 13
We seem to be finding new and not so pleasant answers to that question.
dannyboy @ 20
“Plopped on a mountain of skulls” — that says it.
Very insightful and somber post Jane.
My first thought this morning watching the news was where the FUCK is Osama? Why hasn’t he been brought to justice?
How do ya do it, dear Jane? My thoughts exactly, or ditto. I’m especially nauseated by the Saddamapalooza that, while wall-to-wall on cable news, leaves no room to explore US involvement in his rise and his genocide of the Iraqi Kurds and Marsh Shi’ite.
I guess the now-silenced Saddam means Rummy can finally write his book, eh?
The United States was founded on the enlightenment of man, justice and the rule of law. The current White House Residents have pulled the USA back into the Middle Ages; turning its enemies over to the hooded Inquisition for hanging.
Though I feel now sympathy for Saddam and can understand the joy of some of his victims.The hanging i found quite disturbing.
It was not about justice it was about vengeance and making sure that Saddam would never be able to speak of his time in power or divulge any facts about American government complicity.
The guy was kept in American custody 24/7 until 5 minutes before the barbaric deed.
Watching TV I noticed many American commentaries listing off some of Saddam’s deeds.One was the gassing of Iraqi’s and Iranians,totally despicable.
But one fact always seems to get over looked.The US gov was providing Saddam with the ingredients to make the gas(a violation of International laws),and provided Iraq with the intelligence and the coordinates of Iranian targets.Saddam was supported by many US governments at the time he was at his most murderous.
The execution was quite convenient indeed….
Glad to see you posited Jimmy Carter as the one who placed human rights into foreign policy and the vilification he received for doing so. I said the same thing on an earlier thread this very day.
In the face of victory of the midterms, my mouth tastes of a vultures crotch, my stomach wags as an empty bag, and feel there i no joy in mudville tonight.
No gargle or feast shall slake my hunger and halitosis save for the severe punishment of those responsible for the disastor that is now Iraqistan.
This is not Saddam or the unafilliated 19 zealots with boxcutters.
It is the occupants of the White House and its enablers in congress and the profiteers of the military industrial complex.
Exactly what you said Jane.
The stink that does not wash off. That will not go away. That is how I feel today.
There is not one good thing we have done/that has been done in our name in Iraq. . .
He deserved execution. We executed German and Japanese war criminals, and that doesn’t bother me. What sickens me about this is that America has forfeited the moral standing required for such an act to be legitimate. We don’t stand for anything in Iraq, and neither does our puppet government. We have no business executing anyone there.
Excellent post Jane, horribly strange feeling around it all, embedded with a sinking feeling that it will get still worse before it gets better despite it all. “Murder as P.R.” indeed, not the first time, alas.
SqueakyRat @ 30
Only thing is that, as Christy noted in an earlier post, there is no sense that this was a fair trial. Far better had he been tried in an international court as with WWII war crimes.
Oilfieldguy @ 28
That’s where I was reminded of it, OFG. Thanks and a hat tip due to you.
I’m sure this won’t be a popular opinion, but here goes anyway. I am aware of Dujail, I am aware of Halabjah. I am aware of the trial and a few problems with the trial. I have been to Halabjah as an Army soldier when I was there last year. It’s a trip you can take on a 4 day R&R, you can go to Qatar, to Sulayminyah (sp?) or stay on your FOB. I went to Halabjan to see what it was all about.
Anyway my point is I take a decent amount of pleasure in Saddam swinging by the neck. A monster was killed. I don’t think as a progressive that should trouble me. If I seek a better world with justic for all, then the death of a monster like Saddam seems to make perfect logical sense. I am not bloodthirsty, I believe I am reltatively sane after my time in Iraq, and I still believe in progressive values, just as I believe in death for Saddam, his sons (my friend was there when the sons were taken down) and other Iraqis convicted of war crimes.
As for the rest of America, Americans are always ignorant. That doesn’t bother all that much as if more Americans were cognizant of the world I believe we would have more wars not less. Americans in general take a “my way or the highway” approach to foreign policy. It never matters who is in charge Republican or Democrat, this theme winds its way throughout American history. As for me I am throwing a party tonight with the guys from my unit to celebrate the New Year early as well as other things…….
Funny how writing works. Not a link to be found in your entire post, just pure, unadulterated emotion.
Someday, such passion may spring from joy and hope, as opposed to revulsion, dismay and disgust.
This is what Obama is tapping into and HRC cannot triangulate.
SqueakyRat @ 30
Respectfully, that’s not for you to decide. It was for the Iraqi people to make that judgement, and really, it wasn’t them that organized this but the US military command.
Who was leaking info regarding the impending execution? Not Iraqi sources but US ones.
Who timed the verdict to spoil November’s election?
The US Government.
Regardless that I oppose the death penalty, this was about as fair a trial as the Lindbergh baby kidnapping, and as political.
Jane Hamsher @ 33
I am touched, and I am not the first to notice that!
Sneaky Rat: I only meant to disagree with the first part of your thesis, the rest I am in complete agreement with.
Sorry for the lack of clarity.
Brilliant and perceptive comment, Jane. Thank you.
Morally depraved. Yes, you are quite right. Their behavior is inexplicable otherwise.
Just another exploding frog.
Jane.
Thank you for writing what probably many of us have been thinking.
This got EPU’d from Christy’s thread on the same subject, but it seems equally appropriate here:
I too am having some problems with my reactions to the Saddam hanging. Man’s inhumanity to man has always been a matter for deep thought. Is it more civilized to execute a man for his evil, or more just to let him get away with murder, like Idi Amin. Who is more guilty, the leader who orders the killing of others, or the ones who carry it out, as they did in Rwanda where hundreds of thousands were ruthlessly murdered; where neighbors who formerly were acquaintances, even friendly, murdered each other because of the promise of some extra land. There were even reports that families exchanged their woman at night because the men were forced to rape their own daughters or sisters or mothers before they were killed. And what about occupying ourselves with a lengthy trial of one tyrant for crimes committed many years before (when he was our ally?,) while we tolerate the current exploits of the Jangaweed in Darfor.
And yet we call ourselves civilized. At the same time, we now have a President who does not follow our laws, who has broken his oath of office with each signing statement, and who has sent thousands to their deaths in a trumped up war, amongst equally serious breaches of honorable behaviour. Still, the likelihood of George Bush being brought to justice for his high crimes and misdemeanors within the two year remaining time frame of his term in office is virtually nil, according to John Dean’s recent article in Findlaw. The reason: the short answer is because the adults in Congress can count. The best we can expect is investigations to determine the extent of infringements and possible impeachment of lower level officials, so that they can never come back and haunt us like the ones in the current administration have. Meanwhile, as George W cocks up to carry this mistake of a war even further, the terrorists win a little more with every loss of life and limb of our soldiers (which further weakens our armed forces) and with every one of our constitutional rights that is set aside “for our own good” or “to keep us safe.” At the same time, Saddam Hussein will become a martyr to his previous Sunni subjects, and possibly kill more people in death than he could have dreamed of in life. Yes, by God, it’s a great life if you don’t weaken.
Thank you, Jane.
An excellent, highly representative picture matched to this post as well, the winged Nike.
Toothless and headless, disempowered and armless, Victory takes flight to some unknown place from some equal unknown origin, without point or reason.
TerryKindlon @ 39
Words that go together:
Brilliant, perceptive and Jane.
Words that do not go together:
Military intelligence, President Bush, compassionate conservative.
It would be nice to get Billmon’s take on the hanging. : (
Do you think he’s sitting in his computer room staring at his dark computer, muttering to himself about how keep his hands from shaking?
Your post hits just the right note for me. I turned the TV off yesterday, and today, too.
I just can’t stand it.
Now my son’s friend learns he may be called back for a 3rd tour in Iraq. He has been out of the Marines for a year. They’re going to break every branch of the military before they’re done, I’m afraid.
I’ve been reading Norman Soloman’s War Made Easy over the last week or so(slowly,it’s a tough thing to digest). It’s mostly about media complicity in selling war to the American people,and how easily we always go along with it. Combined with the events of the last couple of days,my heart is kinda ripped apart. Even people I admired and thought were good have bloody,dirty hands. It’s hard to accept that,but there it is.
I sometimes think we need to rip the whole of government apart and start over again,but it seems so big,so corrupt,and so deeply ugly and nasty I’m not sure where we’d even begin.
After reading this book though,I don’t think I wanna watch too much TV anymore,and I am even more sure I don’t want my son watching very much of it.
Great writing, Jane.
shooogarp @ 46
Methinks Billmon sees the writing on the wall.
Sorry for the faux pas, Jane, but I’m feeling really bad about all this. (See mouth comment about #28.)
Well written Jane.
Its days like this that I miss days like this;
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Program…..woman.html
Thank you Jane for penning the right words for these bankrupt times. My heart is heavy because i know children will see all this on the internet and television. I die a bit with every execution. It doesn’t matter who it is. I want to be proud of my country, and, right now I am not.
The reason why.
Jane, grrrrl, this post sings.
You expressed my sentiments perfectly. Thank you!
OFG – Great photo! lil’ kitty is now on my desktop.
I’m gonna SPOTLIGHT this one. This needs to be in TradMed’s inboxes upon their return from NewYearsEve revels.
TeddySanFran @ 53
I know I will butcher this, but the dude that wrote Sir Sherlock Holmes said:
“When all other options are eliminated, no matter how improbable, is the motive for the crime.”
Thank you Teddy for the clip, now, someone really clever post the true quote and author of both–it would summarize all so well.
Ahab Bush will forever be fastened t the thrashing carcass of Saddam.
Jane, welcome back and I hope you are well. Thank you for expressing so beautifully what many of us are feeling. The mix of sadness, dread and revulsion has nothing to do whether Saddam did or did not deserve to die for his own crimes; those who are celebrating this act have missed the point. No, this has much to do with the absence of justice for everyone else, especially our own government.
There isn’t a single aspect of Saddam’s death that in any way atones for the deaths that occurred on 9/11. There is no aspect of our invasion that furthers the goals of peace and international law; no feature of our occupation that lays a path for building nations dedicated to peace and justice and public welfare; no element of Saddam’s trial that one can point to as a model for a judicial system, and no piece of how his execution was manipulated that speaks well of the death penalty, let alone those who staged this event. Instead, the Bush Administration has desecrated everything.
War criminals deserve justice. Human decency demands that they be brought to justice. But we have unleashed and spawned hundreds, perhaps thousands, who daily commit atrocities similar to those for which Saddam was hanged. Today’s hanging will only encourage them further.
And until the American people deal with their own war criminals, in our White House, and bring them to justice, there cannot be justice anywhere. We have work to do.
I feel the same. Read John Donne. See if it helps.
http://www.global-language.com/devotion.html
will someone plese tell me what it’s like to live in the head of george w. bush? i think it must be something akin to a hieronymus bosch painting.
Have any retaliatory acts in response to the execution been reported? I heard last night that U.S. embassies around the world were on heightened alert status.
shooogarp @ 56
Is this the first time you’ve visited my site??
C’mon! The photo is reversed on my site and he moves–but I’m too stoopid to figure out how to make him do it on my site.
I believe the coordinated timing may have had something to with Jr.’s strong desire for Saddam to never be privy to the early historical judgments about to rain down on Jr.’s head (courtesy of the Dem congress).
Don’t know why, but I think this is the level the guy operates at.
Why I bookmark FDL.
It may not be that this sort of community is smarter than othersthat is the attraction, but maybe moreso that they still have a capacity to FEEL something. This post gave voice to the feelings of a lot of people, who have been numbed and dumbfounded by the events of the last six years.
In other words, poetry.
In the garbage, a sparkle, the glint of the human spirit, of dignity and hope. You found it, thank you JH.
Oilfieldguy @ 63
Sadly, yes. I have very limited time to view the toobz. But with Billmon gone, maybe you will be my third stop after emptywheel over at the NextHurrah.
Oh man. That machine gun kitty is quite something. Kinda expresses my anger at ignorance. I just want to shoot stupid people LIKE A KITTY WITH A MACHINE GUN!!!!!!!!
YEAH!
gonna repeat what I wrote two steps down cuz it applies;
the reason you aren’t comfortable with saddam’s execution is as follows;
it is the very people that brought him to trial are the people that brought him to power, sold him the tools of his depravity, protected his power, held him in power, and condoned his actions while he was committing them
saddam didn’t become an enemy of America until he threatened to trade his oil in euros
you will be satisfied when his accomplices are brought to the same justice saddam earned
please to watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42oejmpk gw
J-Ham rox the toobz.
I went back and reread your post, Jane. As a reformed professional shill (adman) I am reminded of the power of effective marketing.
shooogarp @ 24
The Saudis have told us to keep our hands off bin Laden – the sudden reversal at Tora Bora, the dismantling of the bin Ladin CIA group, Bush’s declaration that he’s not interested in him anymore.
Hear hear.
Kathryn in MA @ 71
It wouldn’t surprise me, but do you have any linkies?
It never was a war, not really.
Just the world’s most expensive campaign commercial.
The real objective of the ‘war’ was the delegitimization or destruction of any opposition to the ruling junta in this country, so that for a generation people who know the right people could back their trucks up to the Treasury door.
At least we have Bill Kristol to put it all in perspective for us tomorrow.
Common sense indicates there were orders conveyed during BigTime’s Thanksgiving in Riyadh. The only unknown is the flow. Somehow, I don’t see Abdullah taking orders from Shooter.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 75
I would pay good money to see Juan Williams take a shot a Bill.
SteveAudio @
38
Steve, babe… and I mean this with love. If I may speak for “rats” everywhere; I just want to point out that the rat is SQUEAKY, not SNEAKY. :)
perris @ 68
No for me.
The reasons you cite are all valid and true, for those willing to look beyond the superficial.
But for me, the death of saddam represents the death of stalemate, of containment and of even the facsimimile of diplomacy.
Nothing exists on the horizon but uncertainty and open hostility. No one person stands up for dialogue. Now, in the hotbed of fanatical zealotry that the fundies of North America have projected unto the Middle East, we stare across the abyss into our own eyes.
Mortals confronted with mortalities desire to extend their own mortality through idealism by clotting their own power with people behind their own ideas.
This is why I avoid church religiously.
Where is God?
shooogarp- He always has that sinister, creepy perma-smile. Have you seen this?
http://www.jonesreport.com/art…..utube.html
Jacqrat @ 78
Uh, I’m retarded? Is that a fair excuse?
I stand, um, I mean sit, corrected!
Excellent post Jane but imho you should have pierced deeper to the ugliness. The illusion of justice that is so loudly championed by Saddam’s execution stands in stark contrast to that which the Iraqis have desired and been denied.
Abu Gahrib…Haditha…Fallujah…daily atrocities that hold no accountability for any American because justice is in the hands of the Americans, as is the blood that will never wash off.
Jane, I absolutely, totally agree with this post. You are right on the money. Your feelings are wholly justified.
We are so fucked.
shooogarp @
73
No linkies – just a gut feeling – made all the stronger after they summoned Cheney to get his instructions last month.
Jane,
has anybody told you today that I love you?
Would you be interested in a second hand truck driver?
“Where is God?”
My dad told me once that he was underneath the hood of his 64′ GTO. : )
Great piece of writing Jane and obviously from the heart. It echoes my feelings exactly so thanks for putting into words. I have explicitly not turned on the TV today so that I would not have to see the event. It is really disappointing.
We just have to do a better job of being human.
shooogarp @
46
I hope he shows up and weighs in on this. Am I the only one a bit worried about him?
Let me just add:
Clearly Dujail was horrible. Imagine losing 150 people close to you, especially living in a hamlet of only 10,000. Yet on a world-wide scale, it’s a small number, small enough that the US clearly didn’t give one crap about it until they needed to stage a mock trial for Saddam.
And what of the 13,000 dead in Halabja?
Sorry kids, no closure for you. Your deaths didn’t provide the political juice needed for the death sentence.
And even though his trial for that atrocity has already started, and will continue in his, ahem, absence, it will be nothing more that farce, political theater. But then, so has this whole ‘war’.
Thanks, Joe, thanks John. This one’s for you.
Jane Hamsher @ 88
His site is already down, that’s really troubling.
Jane: This is how I feel too. In the weeks before the invasion the late Pope John Paul expressed his fear of blood lust. This was only briefly reported in the war-monger media. In retrospect such a grave seniment coming from the world’s most prominent religious leader should have been more influential here in the US–It was pretty much ignored.
Like most people I debated the upcoming invasion with friends and family. Not knowing the real merits of the arguements about WMD’s etc, the one thing that I could say with certainty was that this war would have a horrible effect on the USA as a nation.
We are as or more vulnerable to our own evil as we are to the evils of those we call our enemies.
I have no words of my own to express what I feel in this time of cruelty beyond belief, so I’ll let Mr. Appleman say it for me.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 80
Thanks for the link. PNAC? What? I was part of that? What a tool.
I LOVE the visual of what Oilfieldguy at 58 said:
“Ahab Bush will forever be fastened t the thrashing carcass of Saddam.”
Surprisingly CNN devoted a couple of hours to James Browns funeral this afternoon while Ford was flown from So Cal to DC.
tryggth @
64
Oh I agree. Timing is everything. They rushed this execution—suddenly it was imminent. Note also that Bush has stalled making a statement about future plans for prosecuting the war.
Here is how I think the timing went. They needed this execution done before Bush’s SOTU speech—when he will address the Iraq war as a great success.
Cadmium @96
You’ve hit the nail on the head…
EvilDP – thanks for that. I know this is a serious thread, but I’m getting the serious giggles as the mental image of the madscientist cartoon character takes shape in my mind. I hope I can continue to take you seriously. Giggle. (No worries about that, actually. )
The new thinking is that Iraq is a smashing success that hasn’t happened just yet.
Test drive of the new idea, from C&L.
In the meantime, Gale Norton, honcho of the Department of Interior, is now the Shill for Shell.
I wonder if her delivering for them during public service had anything to do with it?
Can we fuck the Indians any harder?
Thank you Jane for articulating what I’ve been feeling ever since I heard the news. Now I have a better understanding of why I’ve had these stones in my belly.
I swear with this in mind that the state of the union speech will be far uglier and represent more death than Saddam alive or dead.
bookwoman @
97
Sharing this short but very good article by Robert Scheer from HuffPo on this. It alludes to the “silencing the witness” effect of the execution that so many posters have touched on here. Also illustrates the failures of Saddam’s trial process vs. the fairness of the Nuremburg proceedings.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..37437.html
Advanced copy of the State of the Union
Adress:
FEAR! Goddammit! and more FEAR! And if you need more–be very very very afraid–cause, you know, terrist simpathizers wanna look at the books to show terrists how we plan to defeat them.
FEAR goddammit FEAR!!!!
uggh. thanks I checked that out. It is sad that people will still fall for this. Even sadder is that people who really dont’ believe them deep down but still feel like they have to because the truth is too painful.
jeffreyw @
99
Once again, I’m glad I don’t have cable TV. The ghoulish fascination with this execution Jane describes is the thing I find the saddest. Saddam was a murdering, malevolent bastard, but the thought of so many people celebrating someone’s death when it really means nothing to them is just depressing.
bookwoman @ 97
I still think it had to do with the immediately upcoming 3,000 US dead there – gotta show it was all “worthwhile.”
My fear is that the worst is yet to come … while we thirst for congressional investigations, we may find our country drowning in the ugliness, greed, and dishonesty that we can only imagine and which will be revealed.
Think of the juxtaposition of Ford’s funeral – a president who pardoned Nixon to spare the country a longer national nightmare of the criminal trial of a former president.
Who, I wonder, will pardon Bush and Cheney?
Cadmium @ 102
As soon as we think things could not get
along comes a rabbit out of their evil hats.
I try to remind myself that Germany must have felt like this during Hitler’s reign, and now the Germans ae pursuing a war crime trial against Rumsfeld, Tenet and others because of their Hitleresque conduct.
I gotta go eat now, so someone let me know if Jane responds to my proposal.
Thanx
Hey, a guys gotta ask, right?
And I do have her on speed dial, so I’m not some wierdo stalker.
But I Am interested.
caelestis @
34
An Angry Old Broad @
48
Here’s my point: Yesterday’s conversation went like this –
Dad: They hung Saddam.
Son: Great — he deserved it!
Dad: What makes you say that?
Son: Remember the Twin Towers?
MY OWN SON… :~[
When logic and proportion
Have fallen softly dead…
…we get American Gonzo Idol with a gun!
I hope it’s the exit of the right wing. I also hope that we could stop allowing Bush to pretend that he is a Christian. His claims alone cannot make it true. His appearances in churches cannot make it true. It is an insult to sincere Christians.
Oilfieldguy @ 100
I am so looking forward to a Democratic Congress and eventually White House whose alumni the oil companies won’t offer jobs.
bookwoman @ 96
And as the 3,000 US fatality happens. We are now at 2,998. We can’t let that be in the headlines, now, can we?
May they rest in peace and may we not rest until there is peace.
SusanM @ 108
Flip a coin: will W appoint Old Lord McCain or RGJoe to Cheney’s empty spot?
I’m convinced The Shiny New Way Forward in the Middle East will involve acceding to BigTime’s suddenly newfound desire to attend to Mary’s pregnancy, and other hearth/home issues.
SteveAudio @ 90
What Swopa wrote about him the other day sounded very much like he was in a “what’s the point of it all?” kind of mood. I hope I’m not reading too much into that.
As much as this thread has caught my eye and as much as Jane expresses my feelings, I want to be honest about it. I clicked on the FOX TV link and downloaded the media clip. I think I would have morbidly watched it to the end if the whole execution was shown.
Cujo359 @
106
mandrake @
103
after following that link, there was this comment:
a reminder of the “special bond” between the Bushes and the bin Ladins. Some corroboration for my comment #71?
Nicely balanced, although not a challenge to J-Ham in the eloquence department (from Raw):
That is how they think I am sure
Sad and infuriating.
RevDeb @ 114
Hideous. Yes.
Jane Hamsher @ 88
He was recently threatening to buy land up around the arctic circle and move….
cadmium @ 117
We’re all still savage little monkeys inside, but it’s still hard to understand. I saw the video of him addressing that assembly the day he took absolute control of the country. He had people who were potential problems hauled right out of the assembly and executed. Reportedly, some were even allies of his. I’m glad he’s gone, on some level, and while it’s an imperfect justice I think in his case it was justice. It’s just not something I want to celebrate.
twolf1 @ 14
Wow, thanks for that tidbit. It just dislodged a nugget of awareness about the weird sort of serendipity going on here with Saddam’s execution and Ford’s funeral back-to-back:
Cheney/Rumsfeld bearing Ford’s body;
Rumsfeld/Saddam – Rumsfeld down in flames and his former Mideast ally executed the day prior to Ford’s laying to rest.
Not sure where Greenspan fits into this cosmic pattern!
Proceedings currently on CSPAN.
New thread.
Jim S @
26
I wish this were really so, but I’m afraid it is not and never has been…
Matt O.’s upstairs.
Well, the emotion is hard to pin down, but William Blake probably wrote about it.
Perhaps it’s because the crime chosen for adjudication sufficiently predated the contacts made by the US to help Saddam with his war, and this effectively prevented US complicity from being either exposed or an issue in the trial.
Perhaps it’s because the trial itself could in no way be considered an orderly proceeding with dispassionate explication of the evidence. After all, with judges and lawyers alike being assassinated during the trial, even a person with hardened feelings against Saddam would acknowledge that justice was not the point of such a trial. It was, rather, a formal exercise stripped of the innards of justice, making Bush’s repeated assertions that Saddam received a “fair trial” all the more ludicrous.
Perhaps it was an appeals process which lasted fifteen minutes.
Perhaps it was US determination to prevent, by all means, the administration of justice through an independent arbiter, such as the ICC, and in the background of that, there is the pressure applied by the US to countries large and small to exempt US citizens from ICC prosecution through the use of coercive bilateral agreements.
Perhaps it is the knowledge that Saddam was used by the US for overt political purposes for twenty-five years or more, but no more so than by this Bush administration and the previous Bush administration, and perhaps, it’s the sure knowledge that Bush will continue to mention this execution, exploiting it for political gain, for months and possibly years to come, hoping that such will protect him from public opprobrium for his own war crimes.
But, certainly, that emotion includes disgust at this execution being yet one more attempt to manipulate and propagandize the public by people who see no moral difficulty in doing that. For me, that emotion is an inured weariness fostered by cynical political hacks who bray loudly about ideals, and yet, have none themselves.
Jane,
You speak for me as well. Bush has his hard-on. Oh, what a man he must feel like now! We are close to the nadir, we celebrate when a human being, no matter how despicable, has been murdered. Notice has been served: if we want, we can come into your country, hunt you down, take you and murder you. We are morally superior. I weep when I say, I am an American.
AD
Thank you for the post.
I, for one, began to weep at the horrid picture of Saddam next to a noose on the front page of WaPo’s web site earlier this evening.
Killing the leader of country, whether he was a tyrant or not, under US auspices is morally WRONG.
Hell, why not invade Cuba and have the Miami Cuban mafia hang Castro?!?
There is not one leader in the world whose hands are free from the stench and blood of many; and that especially includes George W. Bush!
Thank you also, Jane.
I was in a chatroom as the execution was taking place. I was surprised that my feelings of revulsion were almost universally shared, by chatters of every age.
I had no sympathy for Saddam, except for the fact he was so obviously human at the end. Being surrounded by masked thuggish executioners only made it seem more like the crime in progress that it was. “Payback is a bitch” you could say, but I wonder if Bush has thought that through? No, of course not.
I mourn profoundly for what this makes US. Our USA, a concept. Held in the heart, constantly shaped and reshaped by our actions, and those undertaken in our name. George W Bush has blundered through life with a smirk and a grin, giving it a shot, leaving the mess for Daddy to make right.
It’s SO UNFAIR!!! Why do we have to pick up the tab for this deranged sociopath? Why do we have to explain ourselves to the world for the REST OF OUR LIVES, apologizing for this cretin? How dare he ask to be judged by history, when he is long gone and unaccountable. His “wake me when it’s over” attitude is the final straw. I would like to ask Gerald Ford when our long national nightmare will be over, but if he knew, he wasn’t talking.
sick spectacle of gleeful ghoulishness. we are lessened by it.
Excellent, Jane.
Thanks, Jane, for writing this (and the aptly chosen headless Nike to go with it.)
I feel like we just spent half a trillion dollars and half a million lives so Junior could make a snuff video to impress Daddy.
The strangest thing is this funeral. Cheney speaking with respect and love. Each person Hastert, Cheney and others speaking as men not Republicans.
My wish is that somehow these men could hear them selves and make America better.
I am sad tonight but this funeral seems to be about what is good in this country.
Watching Mrs Ford a woman who has been such a role model for all of us.
A few moments when the enemey isnt the Republicans.
I empathize fully, Jane. The execution is the culmination of this chapter, but it is not that which put me in dispirit, but its beginning, when the White Mouse officials chose to lead us into the human failure called war.
One witnesses the madness and feels the sickness too many times in a lifetime so that the feelings come early, in preparation for the evils that surely will follow. Just as surely will come the defenders of each practice – war, torture, murder, rape, capital punishment, dictatorial and monarchical power in the hands of a guy I look at as a servant – preaching their Dark Gospel to me, one of their designated heathens they’ll try to save in a second before lynching me eternally.
What perspective spares me from despair is that – in 1990 – just 14% opposed the first Gulf War. In 2003, more than 35% held their ground against this war. Not only is that a huge percentage advance, but it means 100,000,000 Americans were not swayed by fear and spin.
Now, the numbers are even larger of those sickened by the debacle and wise to the lies.
Thus, it is not America as a whole who has failed the measure of humaneness and come up short. I feel something kindling now, a warmth long repressed, that finally grants me hope from this bloody mess.
I sense that this will be the last winter that the country will take this sitting down. We can, and will retake the reins from the foul who lie when they claim to represent us or speak for us.
We cannot undo their wrong. But we can define what the new right will be. We must hope for that and work for that, in solidarity and with the conviction that other nations are wise enough to distinguish the difference between our country’s heads and its far more numerous hearts.
if only it were just the right wing only interested in such charades. you are an educated person. you know these sorts of games and feints and horror-show dressup routines are part and parcel of How We Do. don’t you? is Bush and the “right wing” really the only administration participating in this sort of sick sham in the name of America’s oil thirst? or is this just an age where we have information dissemination like never before? if i’m wrong, i’ll adjust my views. but from what i’ve read about clinton and JFK, this is not a heinous type of behavior only to be found staining the hands of the Right! This is Neoliberalism/Imperialism using one of the tools it must.
Maybe, if there is no god, at least there is karma. The thing that keeps me from going crazy, besides the the good people here, is the hope that other tyrants and war criminals will get the justice they deserve.
My lovely wife remarked to me that she thought the real rush to execute Saddam was due to what he might have to say to the world about previous administrations. About thirty seconds later, I found Robert Scheer’s piece on the Huffington Post in which he compared it to the mob silencing a potential witness.
Coincidence???
surely this execution has a sordid taint about – was he killed because of his murder of many iraqis – or perhaps of what he might say about past practices of various administrations? seems a former fair-haired boy has met a demise that started as a search for ohhhhh i dont know – say osama ben forgotten. man have we lost our ” moral” compass. ms hamsher u nailed it today!
And let’s not forget the timing of this execution: at dawn on the holiest day of the year for Muslims. Saddam Hussein carried only a copy of the Koran. He’s going to be turned into a martyr for this–there was some talk on the BBC about how he might be considered some kind of a prophet.
It seems that Bush was intent on having the execution take place by the end of the year–have others heard this? So, is it because of incompetence or because they just don’t give a shit but this administration has botched this killing so badly that it will end up resurrecting the reputation of a monster.
Great job Bush (and all of your enablers in the right wing corporate media).
Oh, and one other thing: Bush was said to have been asleep at the time of the execution. Is that to try to distance him from the killing, to suggest that he didn’t have anything to do with it, or, again, to give the impression that no matter how many difficult things happen in the world his beautiful mind is never troubled.
But can that possibly be true? Was he asleep at 9:00 p.m. CST on a Friday night? WTF?
Leonard Cohen .. The Future
Give me back my broken night
my mirrored room, my secret life
it’s lonely here,
there’s no one left to torture
Give me absolute control
over every living soul
And lie beside me, baby,
that’s an order!
Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that’s left
and stuff it up the hole
in your culture
Give me back the Berlin wall
give me Stalin and St Paul
I’ve seen the future, brother:
it is murder.
Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won’t be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned
the order of the soul
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
Professor Foland @
135
I believe you are on to something there.
NO victory but revenge was fulfilled.
Late to the conversation, I know–we were off-line almost all day. Thank you, Jane. I feel exactly the same way.
My son plays drums in a Classic Rock band and he told me that they were told to quit playing music so the bikers in the back could watch CNN for the Saddam hanging.
Rayne @
44
Winged Victory
Wonderful post, rather poignant considering the subject matter. I think the final hours of Saddam (and the coverage since) may have revealed more about the decision-making process than was intended. One expects the bloodthirsty killers of the 82nd Chairborne to do what they do, but you at least hold out hope that the people in charge still retain some last clue about things, even though we know better by now.
I am floored that Bush went to bed not knowing the outcome of this, especially considering that Saddam’s execution was at 9PM CST. That one detail explains so much about why we are where we are.
Finally, the timing and sense of urgency behind this suggests a sop to the Shi’a, that we have made our decision as to which side we will ultimately throw our support to as we start backing toward the exits. This will translate into further sectarian cleansing by Shi’a militia and death squads, and ramped-up Sunni retaliatory attacks. Moqtada al-Sadr continues his consolidation of brokering power in the “unity” government, and the American media will dutifully enable his transformation from killer of American troops to “guy we can work with”, as if we didn’t just end a similar guy.
This is the start of the “political solution” our tumbleweed-clearin’ genius came up with. May his early slumber be forever haunted by the ghosts he’s created.
May this travesty of justice strengthen the resolve of all Americans who are in a position to do what most cannot: to perform, with humane and humble passion, good deeds in our nation’s name, and to show the world and their countrymen that some Americans are still capable of bringing to full and fair account, with true justice and the whole truth, the enablers and executors of the barbaric acts that our federal government has unleashed upon the world.
Jane identifies the problem: We are not what we pretend to be. It is time to confront anew our national mythmakers and silver-tongued deceivers, and to force a change in our nation’s behavior in fundamental ways, and to meanwhile uncomplainingly pay the price for our depraved, and sanctimonious, hypocrisy when the world finally demands an accounting, and its due.
Our legislators have work to do, and not just for Americans anymore. If you want to take on the world, you’d better learn to take care of the world. Your votes unleashed the horror, Members of Congress, and our votes have now told you to end it. Heed us, Congress, and heed us well without delay, or this intolerable situation will soon give way to our will without you.
Empty codpiece justice, Jane… empty codpiece justice…
Splendid read… thanks…
The public execution of Saddam is a throwback to the medieval public hangings, an entertainment for the simple minded. Other outrageous PR events orchestrated by the Hangman-in-Chief for that same constituency were “shock and awe” and “mission accomplished”.
RevDeb @ 8
This is my wish for the new year. Let Dubya and Cheney and their legion of sycophants be tried in a court for all their criminal lies.
Jane
Wonderful post …
We took this approach over on The Garlic;
Saturday, December 30, 2006
Garlic Special: A George Bush Dream – The Victory
http://puregarlic.blogspot.com…..dream.html
Peace
JTD
Jane, it its writing like yours that brings me back to FDL again and again. You expressed how I feel about the execution. Thank you.
It is also uplifting to see posters here who think deeply.
Thanks Jane this is how I feel ,I refuse to watch the News as I don’t want to infect my soul with the Murder Of Saddam via gwbush the insane blood thirsty mis-leader of our Country.
Mr bush are you happy yet?
God Forgive us all.
worse yet, all the sanctimonious, primitive brain, little-dick republicans, know-nothing ‘Murkins, and evilanglicals will be in church on Sunday acting all pious and yo-heying Jesus while smug and salivating in their thoughts of their superiority because they won this one over Saddam Hussein – each feeling all big and important and good about themselves because they supported and concurred with the murder of another human being. Jesus undoubtedly would be reviled by them and find them more in need of salvation then nearly anyone else on Earth.
Their insecurity, their hypocrisy, their vulgarity is soul curdling.
.
Dear Jane (and others),
There were deaths all over the world on December 29, 2006, by humans against other humans in conflict (personal or for a “cause”), or in the commission of a crime, or by negligence, or by a careless act, or a mean-spirited one.
We grieve when those close to us is one whose life is snuffed out (no matter how). We sympathize when a good person is lost to us. We are insecure when an important person whom we have come to depend on is suddenly gone. We worry when the circumstances are such that “it could have been me” or someone we cherish. We are devastated when it is someone whose life is intertwined with ours.
What is it about Saddam Hussein that should cause any of those reactions from someone outside of his family and inner circle upon his death?
All death is a negative experience for someone like me, who has no belief in an afterlife and who rejects the notion that “it’s God’s will” for lack of evidence. EXCEPT in a case like that of Saddam Hussein.
Many (most?) people in the world do not favor capital punishment, and I am among them. But there are circumstances where that conviction can be set aside for a moment — when the knowledge that a person so defiled the glorious concept of “being”, so desecrated what it means to participate in life as a peer human, that his removal from the earth is acceptable. More than acceptable for some, acceptable for others, and unacceptable for a very small number of us for reasons that are probably “personal”.
I’m not celebrating Saddam’s early departure from planet Earth. But I am very easily accepting it as an outcome deserved by the very worst among us, by (perhaps) one in a billion people.
An “acceptance of the essential rightness” of this particular death is shared by a majority of human beings around the world — in this case.
I am left wondering, without a clue, why you or I should be affected at some emotional level about the execution of Saddam Hussein. My partner in life, a PhD anthropologist, is against execution even in this case. I respect that and will not argue the point. But it seems something in you takes you to a point where this execution bothers you on a visceral level. I cannot understand what that “something” is.
Maybe it has to do with the psychological phenomenon of compartmentalizing. By that I mean, I am able to separate the administration of a President I would not have elected, the conduct of a war I would not have authorized, the failings of a geopolitical policy I have issues with — from the death of Saddam Hussein. Had his death come another way, I would be no more or less saddened by it. I would have, in other words, said, “Fine; it’s about time”.
On this one, we part company intellectually and emotionally.
Amen. Great post.
The glee among the talking heads as they announced the news of the execution was flat out disgusting. Especially since the news broke during the Saturday morning cartoons. ‘Cause this is the stuff kids should be watching with their corn flakes. Where’s Holy Joe with his outrage about the coarsening of our culture? Or maybe the powers that be really think this is appropriate as a lesson for the young? That vengeance is patriotic? That sadism is respectable?
I had goosebumps reading this one. It is so reassuring to know that the folks at the front of the mob are so observant and capable of putting the truth into words.
Terry, maybe it has to do with the fact that all of this was done in our name.
Terry Ott @
158
this notion that one ‘does not believe in the death penalty’ but such a belief can be put aside is a fraud. Their are few black and white issues in life, this is one of them: you either believe humans have the right to murder other humans or you draw a line. (Which says nothing of the real issue: preventing demonstrably repugnant and dangerous humans from hurting innocent humans or performing other heinous acts.)
Letting one case of ‘its OK in this situation’ allows for 6 billion interpretations of when its OK to make exceptions, i.e., your exception carries no greater weight than anyone else’s exemptions such as the nazi that thinks Jews should not exist. Whether individually or collectively, any justification for intertional murder is wrong and dangerous.
Which leads to the unease of Hussein’s execution not being from some emotional connection to Hussein. The unease arises from the prospect of our fellow humans predisposition to rationalize and justify state sponsored murder.
.
One of the best posts you’ve written Jane… Thanks for skillfully articulating the strange feeling I fell this morning.. A bit dirty…
Pluege:
I respect your view, and will not try to argue you away from it (which would be pointless), but I will try to explain my own for your consideration, in the spirit of exchanging alternative viewpoints.
I don’t think “being for/against capital punishment” is one of the black and white issues at all. More about that later. I am willing to distinguish “crimes against humanity” (which can be defined) and have that be subject to the death penalty whereas all others would not be.
Among the things that would distinguish this would be: person who by virtue of having been granted, or simply taking, the power of a “ruler” and who uses that position and state powers to systematically kill and maim those subjected to that rule for any purpose including: raw preservation of that power, to enrich oneself and followers, suppression of dissent, or perceived revenge, “shall be punished by death”.
Perhaps if I believed in Heaven and Hell, I would be content that he would be punished the hands of God. I don’t, so that isn’t a satisfactory outcome (for me). I contend he and those others who fit the “crimes against humanity” definition should be subject to the most severe punishment that can be meted out. If it could be shown life imprisonment in solitary confinement with no medical attention would be a more odious punishment, then I would support that.
About Saddam in particular, he could have surrendered on behalf of those in his cause and renounced his genocidal methods, he could have taken his own life, or could have been killed in combat since he was commander of all who killed and tortured in his name. Those things would probably have had the same proximal outcome (death), but he chose to remain the unrepentent brutalitarian fraud, claiming he deserved to remain a leader of those he victimized and their relatives and associates, right up to his ultimate demise. This takes him completely beyond sympathy, and into a category almost without company.
About the “black and whiteness” of one’s standing on the death penalty, can we explore that a bit? Society (or “the state” if you prefer) makes gray area life and death determinations constantly. I will limit this to but one area but there could be hundreds if you think deeply about it. The state decides how much alcohol a person can have in his/her system before he/she is too impaired to drive. If the limit were “zero” fewer people would die. The state decides how fast individuals are allowed to drive on every mile of roadway. If the limit were lowered to 1/2 the current amount, fewer people would be killed in auto accidents. The state decides what condition a vehicle must be in before it can be driven on a public roadway. If those standards were toughened to “perfect” brakes and tires and headlights, etc., fewer would be killed. These are examples of where “we” decide what measures are justified to preserve human life; it’s all gray.
I am willing to let the majority decide what the state should say about the death penalty, just as I accept the state’s right to enact other laws that ultimately doom some of us to die “prematurely”. The fact that the death penalty is rare is an indication that most people draw the line in a particular place. But, I believe “we” have a right to draw that line somewhere. And I would make sure that the line is drawn such that a person like Saddam Hussein is on the “other side” of it. I would make sure the wrong side of that line does NOT ever include people who are wrongly accused, people who may have done something because they “snapped”, people whose circumstances in life warped them to the point where they may have just been predetermined to be antisocial in spite of all help we could provide them, people whose conviction was decided on anything other than evidence that all the world can see, etc. In other words, almost everyone would be on the “preserve life” side of that line.
Terry Ott, Aplication of reason and logic as an arguement for incredibly horrific acts which denied the opportunity to reach a verdict in a logical or reasoned manner may help you justify your lack of emotion in this circumstance.
Personnally I don’t give a rats bottom about the fate of Saddam for many of the same reasons you express. What is never acceptable is the precident this sets as a failure of due process based on logic or reason. Everyone loses in this situation. JMHO.
respectfully
If I understand your points, Eureka Springs, this trial and execution of Saddam (for one of his smaller crimes) prevents him from being tried for other, even more egregious, things, I agree.
Maybe you’re raising another point, that Saddam was denied due process. I might or might not agree on that, but it seemed there was a sincere effort to “do it right”, despite the surrounding events and disruptive attitudes on display.
When something reaches this level of “horrendousness”, everything attached to it is surreal. It’s not easy to compare it to what should happen in a civil or “typical” criminal case.
The time to celebrate passed three years ago last November with his capture. And that was only accomplished because Bush lied.
Facts don’t lie
President’s do!