
(This shot is from the iconic Dorothea Lange, whose photographs stand the test of time in terms of documenting so much of American life and poverty during the Depression. I found this shot in a photo essay on poverty that is well worth a look.)
Back in early January of this year, I sat down to my keyboard and poured out a heartfelt post in the aftermath of the Sago mining disaster that occurred about 45 minutes down the road from where I live here in West Virginia. What I wrote then comes back to me this morning, and I wanted to re-emphasize a few points that still go unaddressed today:
We've gutted funding for mental health. We pay social workers who intercede on the children's behalf less than they could make at McDonalds, but we expect them to do a job so difficult and so important to our communities. We spend huge sums of money on new prisons every year: imagine if we just dedicated a small portion of that amount to services on the front end of the problem -- when these kids were small or even when they were still in the womb (you would not believe the amount of damage to a child that can be done by a mother using crack while pregnant) -- how much better return would that be for our nation over the long run? These are the things that kept me up at night as a prosecutor. The individual stories behind every single one of the defendants and families that I saw, and the question of how to fix the problems that I kept repeatedly seeing, and not just put a band-aid on the problem and hope it would go away on its own. The question of how economic hardship can push someone already on the brink of disaster to do something so stupid, and that can impact his family for generations. But the answers were elusive, and still are.This is a problem that we need a national discussion about over an extended period. Not some nasty political infighting. Not throwing a bunch of sound bites at each other and looking smug, digging in our respective positions a lobbing bombs out from behind the ideological bunkers.
A real, honest discussion. Education is the way out -- but that only works if people in incredibly poor areas have access to decent education. How do we accomplish that?
Mental health and other safety net programs have been gutted over the last few years. Are we trying to create more criminals to lock up -- because that's been a big part of the result that I've seen in the real world trenches. But for a government running deficits as big as the federal government is, where is more funding coming from to increase these programs? And from states, who are having trouble meeting federal entitlements that keep pushing off costs onto the backs of governors whose budgets are already stretched thin? No easy answers here, that's for sure.
Fair wages for a fair day's work are essential. But how does that happen in an era when health insurance costs are through the roof -- for both the worker and the business employing them -- and energy costs are eating up the margins for a lot of other businesses who might have some slack? For that matter, exactly how does a CEO justify making 350 times or more than his lowest paid worker, all the while running a business into the ground with bad decisions?
The bottom line is this: there are some really tough choices facing this nation (and the discussion above is my no means a comprehensive list), and we need to approach them carefully because the results of our action or inaction have long-term ramifications for our children. Democrats used to own these issues because they listened to the voices of those people who needed help, who needed a hand up, and who were willing to do the work on their end to get the job done. And they spoke up for them, gave them a voice in the halls of power.
There, in a nutshell, is where I still am: trying to find a way to bring the voices of these folks to the fore because they have no real public voice in today's politics. At least, they hadn't had one -- I am hopeful yet with regard to the incoming Congress and hope that issues facing folks at the bottom end of the economic scale will be given a lot more consideration in the days to come than they have been given the past few years.
Back in 1999, CNN did a profile of poverty in Appalachia, which included the following, which I still find to be true in parts of West Virginia and the greater Appalachia today:
It's a part of the United States that, to some eyes, might look like another country. Appalachia has been called the forgotten America. But amid poverty and hardship, there's also hope and self-reliance.At a time of prolonged national prosperity, Appalachia is an area where the clanging bells of Wall Street's economic boom are seldom heard. Where some people live in crowded shacks without plumbing, where health care can fall to Third World levels, where roadside garbage often goes uncollected and where unemployment stands at many times the national average of 4.3 percent.
It is here, a region dotted with economically depressed coal-mining towns, where President Clinton sees untapped commercial potential he hopes to unlock with his "new markets" initiatives -- tax credits and loan guarantees for businesses that invest in distressed areas.
There have been limited successes in my state with business initiatives, but the greater question of "poverty" is so much more complex than simply adding more jobs -- a lot of which require a good education and/or higher-level skills that many at the lowest levels of economic society simply do not have, and so cannot obtain these new opportunities without further intervention or training of some sort. West Virginia currently ranks as the fifth poorest state in the nation, and all over Appalachia problems associated with poverty persist with no end in sight.
Certainly personal responsibility plays a role in whatever situation an adult person finds themselves in through the years, but there are fundamental factors that a child of poverty has to overcome that a child born to middle class or upper class parents will never, ever have to face. And for a child who is physically or mentally abused, or who is born to a mother who never bothered with adequate prenatal care, nutrition or abstention from alcohol or drugs while pregnant, or who doesn't have food to eat or clean clothes to wear, who has no encouragement to get an education and no real parental role model whatsoever growing up -- admonishments that as an adult that person should be more responsible can be, at many levels, pretty much incomprehensible.
And for families who fall outside that parameter of at risk kids, who work hard every day at two or three jobs, try to raise their children with optimal parenting, and still find a whole lot more month left at the end of their paychecks -- people who are doing everything right and still have a very, very difficult time getting by because they were born to a family tha didn't have a trust fund, didn't emphasize education, didn't...well, you can pretty much fill in the blank.
Should we simply shut our eyes and walk away from the needs of our fellow citizens? I say no. As much as these folks have a responsibility to themselves and their families to do what they can to make their lives better, so should we consider all of the members of our community our concern -- not just the folks who don't need a hand up now and then -- because it is in how we treat the least of these that we ought to judge our successes.
One of the biggest problems that I have seen is that the question of "poverty" is treated to piecemeal consideration. You want to lower the birth rate for underage kids in America -- but refuse to talk about any sort of education about contraception, other than keep your legs crossed, don't have sex and, if you do, don't talk about it with your parents because they don't want to know. You want to decrease the number of folks who are homeless -- but the greater issues of mental health services having funding cut or drug and alcohol addiction or economic instability for the lower middle class and the increases of families becoing homeless due to health care costs and the new bankruptcy laws that have been devastating for families in that situation...and on and on.
Housing costs in the last few years have skyrocketed all over the country. Siun forwarded a link to me last night about the housing situation for the poor in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina -- and I read the article just shaking my head. Read for yourself the situation that these two sisters find themselves in, and ask yourself if we cannot do better than this.
One of the biggest issues that never seems to get play in public discussion is the role that malnutrition and hunger in the lives of poor children plays in their long-term prognosis for the future. I found some information on this issue relating to poverty in Chicago, and I find it fascinating -- and quite disturbing. As a mother myself, I know how I struggle day in and day out to get my child to eat well, because I have done extensive reading on the importance of this for her health and for her brain development for the long haul. There are also greater questions as to how this can impact a child in the womb in terms of pre-natal care, things that I have seen with abuse and neglect cases that I have dealt with through the years.
There are so many issues intertwined. So many issues.
The Eisenhower Foundation has put up video clips from each of the speeches from the forum that I attended on December 12th. The audio is a little low on the clips that I've viewed, but I highly recommend watching them of you get the time -- in particular, Ray Suarez and Colbert King were quite good and hit the points on the media issue squarely where I felt they needed to be hit. But all of the presentations were on point and very much needed in the run-up to the new Congress being sworn in, and in preparation for the Foundation's follow-up report to be issued in 2008 on the 40th anniversary of the Kerner Commission Report on poverty, inequality, and race in America.
These are issues on which I would like to have a lot more discussion in the weeks and months ahead. And I wanted to throw this out to all of you to help to shape the conversation.
What issues do you see in your own communities with regard to these problems and the overarching issue of poverty? What do you feel most urgently needs to be addressed? What solutions have been attempted in your community -- what has worked, and what has not? With whom would you like to have discussions on this issue at the national level? Whose voices do you find most compelling on these issues -- and why?
I'm looking forward to all of the responses on this. And to much, much more discussion to come.
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Fitz!
twolf1 — I swear, you are a thread psychic. *g*
One of the biggest problems with poverty, is that many of those who are not poverty stricken, look at the poor with disdain. As somehow being sub-human. How can it be that a poor child deserves what she or he is getting?
Generational poverty is the death of the American dream and a national tragedy.
I’m really impressed with how Edwards has, as you say, put this issue on the table. I’ve liked him since he announced four years ago (IIRC, my second or third post ever at Needlenose was about him), but I doubted his ability to have an impact this time around.
I’m glad he’s proving me wrong.
And increasingly problematic is the falling “middle class.” Anyone going to start blaming them for this creeping poverty? And for their fault in “becoming” poor?
EPUd:
Glad to see Edwards and the important issues his campaign platform bring to the fore highlighted here. You’re right about Katrina bringing these issues to the forefront of the national discussion.
But if the MSM covers Edwards like they covered Katrina, there will be the inevitable photos showing Joe Biden “working hard for every vote” juxtaposed with a picture of “Edwards looting votes.”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 1
I am a member of the Psychic Threads Network
Christy Hardin Smith @
2
Or is he using an RSS feed? :)
Now if this vaccine only worked for the super rich, it would already be secretly distributed:
British scientists are on the verge of producing a revolutionary flu vaccine that works against all major types of the disease.
Described as the ‘holy grail’ of flu vaccines, it would protect against all strains of influenza A - the virus behind both bird flu and the nastiest outbreaks of winter flu.
Just a couple of injections could give long-lasting immunity - unlike the current vaccine which has to be given every year.
The brainchild of scientists at Cambridge biotech firm Acambis, working with Belgian researchers, the vaccine will be tested on humans for the first time in the next few months.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....ge_id=1774
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 8
no rss feed. Ms. Cleo lives next door to me
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 9
I recall his saying a while back that he isn’t using RSS feed.
We have an amazing ecosystem for physical capital - money, plants, equipment, etc. Look at the information available - several cable outlets, Money, Fortune, BusinessWeek, the MSM, etc.
Where is the similar system for intellectual capital? Where is the mechanism to identify and nourish human potential?
How many opportunities does society miss as a result? How many good doctors, teachers, nurses go untrained?
Assuming we fix that problem, where are the jobs going to be when folks graduate? We are outsourcing skilled work (I just read an article that has insurance companies sending patients abroad for surgery - I find it telling that even surgeons are not safe from greed)and exploiting illegal immigrants for the jobs that can’t be outsourced.
Combined with Iraq, 2008 may be the watershed event of our generation.
diogenes @ 13
Someday (and I will admit that it probably will not be before the 2008 election) it will be time to bring out the, “No Child Left Behind,” idiocy and hold it to the light to show just how shoddy and threadbare a theory of education can be made.
It was poor in original design and morally bankrupt in its execution. There is no greater example of the conservative inability to project one’s mind into the future than this policy. It results, so very much, in what diogenes is describing here.
I don’t want to hijack the thread — the time is not right, yet, but there is a synchronicity to this country’s current plight and all things are related.
Overcoming poverty in the US is an enormous task. For starters, the US needs to invest in its future. But I don’t see that happening any time soon with the staggering debt (by the trillions) that Bush has put us into. Our children (and theirs) will be paying off that debt for many many years to come.
I hate to sound grim, but that’s the reality, folks.
Oh, Christy, thank you so much for this post!
This is the fundamental aspect of our society—it’s broken so profoundly—and all of us ignore the pain and the reality of our situation. It’s no different in the inner city, a complete lack of resources, of models, of educational opportunity, of health care, of job opportunities; just everything. We end up with drugs and pain and gangs and an entire culture lost.
I was once a pretty big supporter of the free market, of unrestricted capitalism, and of free trade. But the more I see, the more radical I become. I’m not sure if the system we have today can be “fixed”. I’m not sure what it will take to begin to address the issues.
I do know that every one of the conservative folks I know, of every class, thinks that it’s wrong to increase social support but right to increase military support. We end up with billions wasted on ways to kill people, and an entire society living in financial and cultural poverty with very little hope.
To begin to make a difference means we are in for the long hall here. It’s gonna take decades and we will have to fight all the way.
—BTW—
My oncologist told me this week that he could fix the Medicare issue with a one-sentence bill before Congress: “All governmental employees, including Congress and the Senate, shall use Medicare as their primary form of health insurance.”
Biodun @ 15
It IS grim, and it IS the reality. Sad, but true.
I’ve just recently moved back to downtown Indpls, from the country, after having been gone for several years. Good news- bad news. I see openly gay couples free to live their lives, and I think - ‘thank God I’m back to civilization’.
But then, every single day, I see and notice that there are now more homeless people on the corners, with their plastic cups asking for quarters. I see more people walking the streets talking, and raging, to themselves. I’m a very fit guy, having been in the gym for about 25 years now - nobody much messes with me. But (and I’m not trying to blow my horn, fer chrissakes), there are people who, when I encounter them, I wonder whether it’s gonna be time to hafta throw down. I don’t worry about me - I worry about the women, the more infirm, who must be scared shitless.
There’s one mission downtown - I was talking to a street guy yesterday, and he was telling me that it wasn’t cold enough last night for him to get into the mission for the night. Rules of some sort.
But by far the biggest crime in this town is that there are so many people in need of mental health care - and it looks like they’ve been totally abandoned. Homelessness - I don’t know how you fix that - but to have so many obviously mentally ill people, also homeless and on the street, is just wrong. Simple medication would take care of most of it - but it’s evidently not available.
Neither homelessness, nor mental illness, is a crime.
There’s an older black gentleman, named David, who parks his wheelchair at my corner every day of the world. Never asks anyone for a dime - he just talks to people - and they, in turn take care of him. Guy knows more people than the mayor, I’d wager. But how, with spare change and a friendly chat, are ya gonna save David - let alone everybody else?
OK at 3 — That is one of the questions that I have never, ever been able to answer to my satisfaction, either. I have worked with at risk kids for years and I have never, ever met a child who “deserved what they got” from whatever crappy family may have raised them. And I have dealt with some violent, nasty kids through the years — but when you took the time to look — really look — at their family lives (or lack thereof…), you got a very good understanding of how they had gotten where there were in a whole lot of cases.
Individuals make choices. Once you get to a certain age, you have to be held accountable for those choices. But as a society, we are choosing to simply leave these kids — from a young, vulnerable age — in situations that we would never, not in a million years, leave a child that we cared about it — and in what universe do we consider that remotely appropriate? Honestly? How have any of these innocent children “earned” that life? And how is it that people can simply turn their backs on that reality?
The story of the twin ladies is heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time.
Gov’t fat cats wanting to make a buck and to hell with the people they are charged with helping.
For a moment, imagine shutting down Clusterfucks war and taking that money and putting it back into our own infrastructure.
One billion dollars a month?
How many apartments could be repaired. How many streets?
How many needy people could be fed, clothed and housed for one BILLION dollars amonth?
That is what I find so abhorrent about Bush.
It’s criminal the way New Orleans has been left to rot. Not to mention the rest of the gulf coast.
kristinejoy at 4 — I have seen more generations of families in the courthouse for various criminal matters than I can count. Yes, it is a huge problem — here and everywhere. And how you get to the heart of it and begin to solve it is the question I have been asking myself for years.
I re-read Dickens and see so many of the same problems that I have seen through the years, and I ask myself whether or not there really is a solution. But not to try is such a betrayal that I cannot, in good conscience, stop asking the questions.
A discussion of poverty must also address the continuing problem of racism in this country. Why is it that images of “the poor” presented by the MSM so often seem to be black or brown people, when the reality is that poverty makes no racial distinction?
Well, one reason may be because the Republicans-thanks to Lee Atwater and Karl Rove-have succeeded in demonizing the “other” (African Americans, immigrants, Democrats, etc.) and, as a result, kept the country divided along racial lines.
Poverty isn’t about poor people. It’s about all the people in this country-rich, poor, black, white, smart, stupid. When Edwards (or anybody else) talks about poverty, it must be framed as an issue that affects everyone.
marksbb @ 16
Your oncologist is right. And their pension plan should be the equivalent of SS (the taxpayers fund it at the same rate as employers, and the Congresscritters put in the rest at the employees’ rate. (You can’t run a system well if you never have to use it yourself.)
Also congratulations on finishing your treatments, and good luck!
Holy mogambo. I just noticed with Renee in Ohio’s post that RBG linked up in the prior comments thread — I am a CATEGORY on DKos. How did THAT happen? LOL
I almost don’t want to say anything for fear of “jinxing” him, but I get a really good vibe from John Edwards. I voted for him in the primary in 2004. He gives me flashbacks to Bobby Kennedy… For me that’s a GOOD thing.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 24
Tag. you’re it!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 24
Christy Hardin Smith - Category Five blogger
blow ‘em away, Redd!
Better schools or more jails. Nutrition programs for the poor or dividend tax breaks. Where do our values stand?
There are two options to increase the national debt; increase tax cuts or increase spending. History has proven that “trickle on economics” is a massive failure for the majority of Amercans, so tax cuts for the extremely wealthy harm us as a nation.
Where do our values stand?
Is it right to reduce America to mere consumers and those who cannot afford to consume are somehow un-American?
Our trade policies enacted in the last 20 years have done us great harm. Establish a base-line cost for goods manufactured in America, with all environmental and worker protection costs factored in. All imported goods would be charged a tariff to match the base-line cost. All shipping would be an additional cost, eliminating the financial advantages.
Do the same with offshore tax shelters. Wanna sell here and benefit from the American economy? Pony up the dues.
The strength of America lives in the depth and breadth of the middle-class, not with multi-national corporations.
diogenes at 13 — I saw this day in and day out with some of the brightest kids that I dealt with in the juvenile system — and in the abuse and neglect system when we could find a good, adoptive placement for at risk kids who had been removed from a severely abusive home and were able to thrive in a better environment. We lose so much potential — but how to make that better on the whole involves so many very difficult questions to which there are few, if any, good answers.
But we absolutely must start asking those questions, because not to do so is so painfully wrong.
Great double post today, Christy, thanks. Much to ponder.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 24
Yes, and they have a poll for you too, in case you decide to run for Congress. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 24
If you click on Christy’s name at the bottom it takes you to another page. And by golly, there is a poll there.
So far, 86% polled said HELL YEAH, Christy should run for Congress.
NOW, how do feel, Mrs. Smith?
Bustednuckles @ 20
I think that’s what pisses me off (almost) the most: if we could shut down the war and move all of the money over to social concerns, the hue and cry throughout the land would be deafening. The screams of waste and corruption and welfare queens and so on. It’s a basic assumption in this country that military spending is right, and social spending is wasteful and wrong. I dunno what to do about that.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 21
For many of us (and I guess we should give thanks) a personal experience with poverty is often limited to experiences with fiction.
My first realization of this was in reading Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man. It is an excellent juxtaposition of the ‘white’ world against the ‘black;’ and, the ‘rich’ world against the ‘poor.’
It was not until later in life, when my father started bringing me to soup kitchens, that I was given the gift of experiencing poverty in a truly personal sense.
My children might not appreciate that now, but thanks to their Grandfather, they are getting that education earlier than I did. I’m still going to make them read Ellison, of course!
I knew how bad Reagan would be since he was governor but I still have not forgiven him for what he did to the mental health system. I had two nurses I worked with that had kids that were institutionalized due to severe problems. When Reagan shut down all the residential centers throughout the country, he failed to put in a system to support these people, no OP treatment, no follow system, no support.
The reason why so many homeless are mentally ill to start with was just that. Now it is because there has No place for them, no OP treatment centers, no day clinics to make sure they are getting their drugs and no one to follow up.
Then in 1985, I dealt with my brain injured brother-in-law trying to get him placement. Eventually I was able to obtain Social Security Disability and placement in a adult assisted living home. All his check goes to payment of his monthly room and board.
I know of several families who were lifers in the military because of their child’s medical conditions and could NOT make it on the outside due to the high cost of the care.
Bustednuckles @
32
Mrs. Smith Goes to Washington
The world has become such a dismal place. It’s all so very unsettling. But there is a way out of poverty. Election of concerned Democrats would be a start.
OT
Riverbend posts today:
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
“My only conclusion is that the Americans want to withdraw from Iraq, but would like to leave behind a full-fledged civil war because it wouldn’t look good if they withdraw and things actually begin to improve, would it?
Here we come to the end of 2006 and I am sad. Not simply sad for the state of the country, but for the state of our humanity, as Iraqis. We’ve all lost some of the compassion and civility that I felt made us special four years ago. I take myself as an example. Nearly four years ago, I cringed every time I heard about the death of an American soldier. They were occupiers, but they were humans also and the knowledge that they were being killed in my country gave me sleepless nights. Never mind they crossed oceans to attack the country, I actually felt for them.
Had I not chronicled those feelings of agitation in this very blog, I wouldn’t believe them now. Today, they simply represent numbers. 3000 Americans dead over nearly four years? Really? That’s the number of dead Iraqis in less than a month. The Americans had families? Too bad. So do we. So do the corpses in the streets and the ones waiting for identification in the morgue.
Is the American soldier that died today in Anbar more important than a cousin I have who was shot last month on the night of his engagement to a woman he’s wanted to marry for the last six years? I don’t think so.
Just because Americans die in smaller numbers, it doesn’t make them more significant, does it?”
Dear God, what have we done?
As I told Carnacki, I don’t live in that district. And I don’t have plans to move. It’s flattering — but don’t look for me to make a run for Congress, thanks. I have The Peanut to think about first and foremost.
Bustednuckles @
32
Hmmm…would of thought there’d be a few more recommendations by now.
1,378 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
Bless your heart for bringin our attention back to the purpose of democratic politics which is to enable collective action to improve people’s lives. We are once again at one of those historical moments when the conflict between rich and poor and the relationship between wealth and power is clearly defined and threatens to overwhelm human progress. The monied class has disabled our democratic institutions whose purpose was to ensure against the consolidation of wealth and power and to provide for democratic choices in the distribution of the wealth of society. The restoration of those democratic institutions and the implementation of actions that address the improvement of life for a majority here in this country requires us to break up the consolidation of riches, redistribute wealth and power and drag the monied class back into the mainstream.
We have mechanisms available to us to accomplish this but they are currently throttled and controlled by an oligarchy whose ultimate purpose is to eliminate the machinery of democracy. We need to end the war in Iraq, impeach the current executive, hold war crimes trials,implement confiscatory taxation on the rich, take the cap off social security taxes, implement universal health care and rewrite anti-trust legislation to break up the monster corporations.
This is all doable within our existing political structure but we must come together to agree on on the goals…if we lose this moment in history we may very well wake up in the 13th century.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET ‘EM SCARE YA!!
Understand this neocons and Bush affiliates. I will never stop fighting your kind. So if you plan to be around for a very long time, mark this; so do I.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
Well put. And The Peanut is lucky, very lucky.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
There are lots and lots of other Peanuts out there that few are helping. You asked for suggestions, and you gotta doozy!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
I come from a long, long line of educators (and I’m married to one). I am highly biased towards the idea that a federal commitment to education is an absolute requirement for building any foundation to a bulwark against poverty.
Oilfieldguy @ 28
This is what I was trying to get my keyboard around when reading Christy’s words and the comments. The systems, personnel and funding for (re)building the social safety nets and education system will rely on the electorate.
The consumer isn’t going to change - America is a vast wasteland of strip malls and the IGMs (”I got mine”) who don’t want or can’t change.
The capitalist isn’t going to change - in the quest for the fattest bottom line and the biggest profit, human suffering doesn’t even get acknowledged, much less acted upon. (Goldman Sachs CEO nets $53 million bonus? That’s a criminal act.)
The current form of government isn’t going to change, not as long as elections are fueled by cold, hard cash from private donors.
So what’s left?
Looks like its going to be up to us, and getting elected those that share our values. After all, that’s what got us here. John Edwards nailed it with his “Two Americas” observation. The challenge is going to be two-fold: getting the “haves” to give up some of the “having”, and getting the “have nots” the right resources so they can become “haves.” It can be broken into four main areas of attention - education, housing, healthcare and employment. Each poses monumental challenges, and as seen by the “War on Poverty” from the Johnson Administration, there are NO easy answers.
The foolish endeavours of gay marriage amendments and Terri Schiavo-like grasping at power utterly corrupts the conversation. Thankfully, we’ve started to address that aspect. Now it’s up to us to keep the conversation going.
-GFO
Great post Christy! and glad you could use that link … it’s a heartwrenching story but it also sounds like one we can help with … there’s a legal effort and a move to help the people being displaced … perhaps we can invite the author of the article to give us more info sometime?
Just to put things in perspective, the US percent of population below the poverty level is ranked in between Croatia and Bulgaria. Look at the stats on Nationmaster. A fantastic resource for comparative statistics.
http://www.nationmaster.com/gr.....verty-line
Just so you know Christy, I was just joshing you. *g*
BUT, OTOH, You do have a dynamic public speaking voice and are noticeably empathetic and concerned when doing so.
I hope you can just bowl a few important people over in your quest.
Grab ‘em by the short hairs and tug hard.
God Bless Ya.
BTW, {{{{{{{ PEANUT }}}}}}}
sofistic at 48 — well, that’s sobering, isn’t it?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
I don’t mean to be indelicate; but I would assume your age to be “Thirty Something.” There is time enough and future for you my dear. Like the song says, raise your children well and that’s the first thing we all can do for this country.
But, in 10 - 15 years, if you’re still making the kinda waves and cogent argument you are so renowned for….well…nuff said ;-}
johnSwifty at 51 — You sound like Mr. ReddHedd…
By the way, all: we are going to be on vacation in Hilton Head, SC soon — and I was wondering if there are readers in the area who would be interested in getting together for some coffee or lunch or something while we are down there?
The basis of the conservative philosophy, if it can be dignified w/ such a word, is you get what you deserve. Poor people are poor because they don’t want to work or god has created them stupid and/or weak, and he must have his reasons. The better off are better off because they are smarter and better and stronger, therefore its only right that they make decisions for the poor. That’s why the prefer charity to a living wage. Lot’s of dems feel the same way. Minimum wage is for 16 year olds, not for adults. A living wage for a single adult obviously varies w/ locale but it is not an unworkable concept. making it happen is going to take a return to a strong union movement (check out what a dock worker or cal prison guard makes) and pols that will put legal power into workers hands (repeal taft hartley).
Kucinich and Edwards are not remote from poor people. Their lives have taught them better.
There’s a developer in LA who builds beautiful complexes with Italian names … and fights every legal requirement for ‘affordable’ units in those complexes. If he had his way, every unit he builds would be straight-up ‘market rate’ (which translates to ‘only managers, lawyers and stockbrokers can afford to live here’). It’s much more important to make money with ‘luxury housing’ than to see housing put up for the working class and the rapidly-growing number of working poor. (One person I know who looked at some of the ‘luxury housing’ going up says it’s poor quality, and there’s not much space outside the ‘master suite’ and the entertainment area; the rest of the bedrooms have just enough space for a twin bed and a dresser.)
Sofistic @ 48:
On that Nationmaster stat, I’m surprised that China is below the US, at 10 percent. Doesn’t seem right.
One thing our school provides each and everyone of our students. A good, no charge, breakfast and lunch. Pre-k through twelve. A kid cannot learn with an empty belly.
My Congresswoman, Lois Capps, was fifty nine when her husband, new congressman Walter Capps, died suddenly in 1997 and she won a special election to serve out his term. She’s been our rep since then. She’s a great congresswoman who isn’t afraid to show up at anti-war rallies at Arlington West.
There’s plenty of time, Christy.
OK at 57 — They do that here as well. And it can make such an enormous difference for a child who hasn’t had a full belly for quite a while to be able to start the school day without having to worry about gnawing hunger.
johnSwifty @ 51
OTOH, maybe the best thing you can do for the Peanut of the future is to channel some of that fire into helping out other Peanuts — a lead by example kinda thing, balancing parental issue against larger state or national ones. Just sayin’…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
Nice gesture, CHS — but how about taking a vacation from it all? Of course, if you were vacationing on the Left Coast, we would all demand an audience….
Christy Hardin Smith @ 21
For even the lucky, the ones who get educated and change their lives, there are generation effects–student loan debt, credit problems, etc.
Foster children are considered adults at 18. No more support, you are on your own with nothing. So many end up moving back in with their bio parents, living on the street, and the percentage who ever go to college is in the low single digits.
But all it takes in a long view. My opportunities and what I did with them lead me to raise children for whom getting a graduate degree or going to a good college is not reaching for the stars, but a disciplined path they can take starting right now, with school achievement. Their kids will grow up with much different options than I ever had, as long as the world doesn’t fall about before then. Which I guess is why we are all here.
Education is the way out — but that only works if people in incredibly poor areas have access to decent education. How do we accomplish that?
Even in the relatively prosperous Bay Area there are huge disparities in income and wealth. Unfortunately the visible signs of poverty typically correlate with race. And academic success tracks closely with income, race, and parents’ level of education. It seems like an insurmountable, self-perpetuating problem.
Some incremental progress has been achieved at Berkeley High by attempting to address this “achievement gap” via small schools within the large school (some 3000 students, the only public high school in the city - “the most integrated high school in America”). Punaise jr. is in one such program.
It’s worth noting that when the data was studied more carefully, much of the so-called “crack baby epidemic” turned out to really be an on-going “poverty baby epidemic”. At which point it quickly became not at all newsworthy.
A really good education and caring, supportive, and involved parents are the keys to our children’s success.
Angela Davis was in New Orleans recently talking about Amnsety for Katrina Prisoners, but her speech went off in a direction discussing where racism lives today.
Her words shook me to the core. Her points about the certainty of racism should be listened to and debated by any Democrat running for the Presidency in 2008. It may be the core to winning the South and making it a clean sweep of the Republican Party into the dust bin of history.
Dealing with racism, poverty and education are the keys to America’s future…not oil and war and greed.
TeddySanFran @ 61
Agreed.
It would be wonderful to meet Reddhedd in person.
( Contrary to what many may percieve, I am actually a very nice guy)
Busted — both Teddy and OFG can attest to the fact that I’m quite pleasant as a dining companion as well. *g* I promise not to bite any of the folks who can make it to Hilton Head when (and if — still hoping that business won’t intrude on the week we’re trying to carve out) we go on our trip.
Redd just saw you on C-SPAN 2 Thanks to c-span and you may I say you were great as always but you seemed to express that there is no way to change things unless big MSM was engaged Let me assure you that your posting are more from the heart and will therefore bring about the changes we at FDL want Hang in there and build FDL to hell with MSM you are what the U.S.A. NEEDS because of your Heart
Perhaps poverty needs to be spoken of as a matter of what’s truely good and right,what it says about our morals and values,in the REAL sense of that,not in some idiotic GOP talking point sense.
I have always believed it is immoral not to make it a given that each and every child has food,clothing,shelter,medical care and a quality education. It’s investing in your people and your nation,it’s not BAD or wrong or weak to give a damn about people,especially your own.
The reason I feel this way is because I know what it takes just to feed yourself for one day if you aren’t able to afford to. I have skipped meals so my kids could eat. I have been homeless. And I can attest how much energy goes into finding food for you and your family,how stressful it is,how much TIME it takes out of a day to get that when you are poor.
You make sure,because it’s morally right to do it,that people are born into a world where the basic essentials of life are there,and then you have a nation of people who can do AMAZING things because they don’t have to fight for just the simplest means of staying alive.
I don’t mean giving people mansions and new cars,or caviar and champagne either(which is how conservatives like to frame it,like welfare recipients make the good money,just by sitting on their asses).Most poor people don’t want to be rich,just able to care for themselves and their families and communities. Being able to do that gives people dignity and something to fight FOR. When that is in place,we all have a better world. Less crime,less abuse,less violence,less addiction,less hopelessness. What could possibly be bad about that? That investment is costly up front(especially now that it’s been so shamefully neglected for so long),but the payback would be seen within one generation.
I think if we,as Liberals of all stripes,can reclaim this as an issue of what values truely are,we can stop some of the ridiculousness of the right wing in it’s tracks.
A refocus on local economies and food supplies is one place the elimination of poverty can begin. We’ve become dependant on outside sources,for jobs,for income,for food,for almost everything. Taking some of that back from big bidness would help.
I’m from SE Ohio. I left in the ’80s when the auto industry(and related indusry) croaked there. That area still hasn’t recovered,the poverty there is now extending into a new generation of babies who have parents who have never held a job because the nearest place to find a job is a couple hours away. My generation is the last to have had jobs that paid a living wage,and we had unions too. These young parents have lost hope,no one cares about them,they see no way out. And sadder still,they don’t believe they deserve anything better because it’s been drilled into their heads from a young age that they aren’t worth the investment.
OT -CNN fomenting at the mouth for Saddam’s hanging. They are going into graphic detail about the process and pain and what happens to the human body. They just can’t wait. This is their Christmas.
OMFG. That article about the twin sisters is about ethnic-economic cleansing.
We haven’t even touched on that.
One of the reasons that poverty is not addressed in this country is that it is purgative in the eyes of the wealthy. If you’re wealthy, you don’t have to worry about too many brown-skinned people intruding in your world if you keep them where they belong, or push them towards whereever that is. If you’re wealthy, you don’t have to worry about too many economically-disadvantaged people cluttering up your landscape if you keep them where they belong, out of sight, whereever you keep the nasty bits you really don’t want to see.
Why are structurally sound houses bulldozed, at taxpayers’ expense?
Because the people at the very top of the income ladder who pay the least percentage of taxes pro rata, don’t want to subsidize housing for people they don’t think deserve to be there, whether for ethnic or economic reasons.
How is this not the Gaza strip and apartheid?
Biodun @ 56
One of the reasons is that each nation defines poverty in its own way, yet the reference they use is somewhat similar to our “market basket” method of defining how one (or a family) can live at or above subsistance. Make sense?
AOB @ 70
you have got it so right!
seriously, I had to turn OFF the cnn and the msnbc… all the hanging discussion makes me feel like I’m going to faint…
sofistic @ 73
Thanks. I see what you mean. Many people in China can live (and do live) on just a buck and a half a day. That’s 12 Yuan. You can get a meal for just 2 Yuan. Interesting.
Christy, all of the elements you write about so eloquently are essentially the underpinnings of health. The hungry, fearful and exhausted child cannot learn in school which leads to… and so on down the path to despair. Mental health care divorced from physical health care allows people to fall down a rabbit hole and end up as criminals.
With the 100th Congress comes a window of opportunity to stop the descent of policy into chaos and to begin to undo the damage of the past. Please visit Universal Health to read more about the health and healthcare issues we all face.
I believe that if the Democrats take the WH in 2008, the most important appointment will be that of Attorney General.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
can I get a FITZ?!
Siun @ 47
Suin,
Amazon finally made it through the xmas rush and sent me my copy of Fisk’s The Great War for Civilisation : The Conquest of the Middle East
It is daunting, to say the least. But it was immediately useful in that my fourteen year old has a ganglionic cyst from his KungFu and this baby’s better than a bible for slamming down on it!
Here’s one that will shock you (again from Nationmaster). The US is number two in the child poverty index, just below Mexico.
http://www.nationmaster.com/gr.....ld-poverty
Yes, the article about the twin sisters is truly disturbing. Affordable housing is disappearing throughout the country. It has gotten so that firefighters, teachers, social workers, etc., cannot afford much in the way of housing, either. But, no problem putting big money into building prisons …
It’s all so tragic. I don’t know where we start. It’s been out of whack for so long. So many of our Dems have not been helpful.
Universal healthcare, public funding of elections, ending the dam* war …
I guess my biggest question at this time is — How do we change hearts and minds? People on this thread have pointed out some of the attitudes — and not only on the right of the political spectrum.
Donita’s spinning Wrap It Up upstairs.
sofistic @ 81
Thanks. The US: disgraceful. The stats for third-world countries are not available, though Mexico made it in there, at the top of the list.
In the 70s California had free junior colleges statewide. Provide that nationally.
Just found out that Nationmaster has a companion site called Statemaster. Now you can make comparisons of these stats on a state by state level.
http://www.statemaster.com/index.php
Christy, we’ve had some excellent coverage here in Milwaukee on housing for the mentally ill. It’s revealed how State, County, and City government is basically scabbing licensed health care jobs for the mentally ill to unlicensed kapo’s. They do this to keep their own budgets down, despite the fact that it systematically destroys value in a host of ways. A great reporter (from the big daily), Meg Kissinger, dug up that Milwaukee County was returning HUD money that was supposed to build homes (CBRF’s Community Based Residential Facilities) for the mentally ill. That lost construction hurts everyone. In addition, the County wasn’t applying for HUD money, because it would have meant increasing city and county budgets to administer these facilities. About a thousand of the worst-off ended up in filthy homes run by
kapo’slandladies who stole their Social Security checks, didn’t feed them (or fed them spoiled food), and a lot of other really gross sadistic stuff. These homes are supposed to be licensed (that revenue is supposed to go to the state) and they’re supposed to be run by licensed health care workers (more revenue not going to the state) and decent paying jobs which help the tax base. What’s been going on increasingly for years is that Wisconsin Medicaid pays case managers to dump their clients in unlicensed homes run by unlicensed personell. Then the case managers continue to get paid (a pittance) and the psychiatrists and the pharmaceutical companies rake in all the money (whether the meds are taken or not). These unlicensed CBRF’s are also a terrible blight on any neighborhood, (always the poorest), so they drag property values down even lower. These unlicensed CBRF’s should be low income housing for the working poor, but it’s easier for the landlords to steal Social Security checks from the mentally ill, so Milwaukee also has a shortage of low income housing. These are the kind of “shortcuts” that in the short run make an individual budget look a little better, but they destroy property values and promote crime. The state has been trying to ignore its duty to enforce laws on the County, but maybe with the pressure from these stories, (they started last March and just keep going), things will improve a little.Abandoning our Mentally Ill
If anyone knows how to check to see if a reporter has been nominated for a Pulitzer, I’m interested. Meg Kissinger and her editors have earned it. Right after her first stories broke, (because of everything I learned at FDL), I could tell when all the lazy reporters started getting calls from equally lazy government employees to publish stories discrediting her stories. Gradually though, good reporting appears to be winning out. She did a series on Columbus, Ohio and how they handle the identical problem so much better than Milwaukee.
OT - CNN reporting that Saddam will be executed in the ‘next couple of hours’
This will be epu’d but please consider it.
Why should students be required to pass a driver’s test (even handicapped students who can’t drive, for example the blind, have to pass the classroom drivers ed here) but there’s no requirement that students pass a basic family life class: how to negotiate conflict, basic child development, how to pay bills,etc?
Why should people have to proove they know when they can turn on red but not that shaking a baby can kill it?
And why should people feel they have a right to make babies even if they can’t pay for them? OK. We shouldn’t let the children suffer, but they should be taken away from irresponsible people who make babies and can’t take care of them. (Not necessarily a temporary hardship but talking here about people living on welfare who keep having kids.) Actions have consequences.
Christy, excellent, excellent post. This is the first time I am commenting here, although I read Firedoglake regularly. This is really a very very important subject, and one I care about deeply.
Here are a couple of thoughts I have off the top of my head:
You mention the cuts in mental health services that we have seen over the years. I have struggled all my life with depression — it runs in my family — and knowing how debilitating chronic depression can be, I can’t even begin to imagine how someone without either health insurance or the money to do without it could function if they didn’t have the money for therapy and/or for anti-depressant medication.
I am incredibly lucky enough to be middle class (although often hanging on by my fingernails, which is another story) and to have had access to both (therapy and medication). Class status is incredibly significant — not just in terms of money to pay for the help you need, but also in terms of knowing how to finesse times when you don’t have the money.
Example: For several years after my divorce, I was struggling financially in extremis. For a while I had to get my food from a local food pantry, and I had no money to pay for expensive anti-depressant medication. But my therapist at the time was willing to see me without charge (on the understanding I would pay whenever in the future I could), and she also suggested to me that I could get free samples of my medication from my doctor. Doctors are deluged with free samples from pharmaceutical companies all the time, but I would not have thought of doing this if she had not suggested it. My doctor ended up giving me enough free samples for THREE MONTHS. And I know she would have given me more had I needed it.
My point is, how many poverty-stricken people living in Appalachia have access to the kind of medical resources that I had? How many have even one psychology practice near them, much less dozens? How many have access to someone who can tell them about doctors’ free samples?
I said I had a couple of thoughts, but I didn’t expect to be so lengthy here. I’ll stop, but you’ve really inspired me to think more about this, Christy.
More poverty stats: Percent of children below poverty level by state.
http://www.statemaster.com/gra.....erty-level
Kathy at 90 — One of the more difficult things that folks here have had to manage is the budget cuts in a lot of the programs that underpin these support systems. WV has an aging population — we have a large proportion of folks who are retired or near retirement age, and a large number of those rely on Medicare. The problems just with the drug coverage here have been astronomical in terms of what I have seen, day in and day out, with elderly folks — at the pharmacy I use, at the grocery store, wherever, trying to balance the increased cost of drugs, the hideousness of the “donut hole,” and the cost of food and energy and other things on their fixed incomes.
Let alone folks who live on the income margins who have some catastrophic illness and kids to feed.
Or any number of other situations. There is little to no safety net and all those religious institutions that are supposed to provide the “compassionate” safety net that are getting money doled out by the federal government by the thousands are pumping it into new facilities and not into helping the poor to get a hand up. It’s infuriating. Meanwhile, a lot of local groups who ARE doing the tough work and helping the community are having a very tough time making a go of it because donations have gotten smaller and smaller — because peoples budgets are getting tighter and tighter.
When you factor in how much we spend in Iraq every day — and you look at the budget line items that are disappearing — you begin to really get a sense of just how badly in need of a national conversation we are on all of this.
Since you asked, here’s what I wrote on the Part I blog. I’m sorry it’s so long. Just getting some thoughts out there. It’s all stuff that has been going through my mind since I saw the Eisenhower Conference.
Media Treatment of Race and Poverty:
I personally feel that until the stories about poverty are presented in such a way that the middle class begins to realize how precipitously so many of us are teetering on the edge of poverty ourselves, many will continue to look the other way. “It can’t happen to me.” It’s just the way our self-absorbed culture works these days.
The disconnect between how the middle class perceives itself and how it perceives poor people is fed by corporate-induced consumerism and our politicians of the day (race and class-bating, all that jazz). Reporting needs to somehow bridge that disconnect.
It’s not the whole answer, but I think it would go a very long way towards waking up the middle class many of whom, while feeling squeezed, don’t realize they may be one medical disaster away from ending up poor themselves and thus had better start looking at them as “real” people with whom they can identify and not just despise or pity.
I think Barbara Ehrenreich has done an excellent job of humanizing the working poor and, also, illustrating their hard-working spirit and determination to survive, in spite of often deplorable conditions. As Ms. Ehrenreich illustrates, many of these people are college-educated, some with PhD’s. The story is so much more complex than what we are typically exposed to. Perhaps intentionally so.
I’d also like to address coverage of the non-working poor, whose numerous problems and needs (which you outlined in your other posting) prevent them from being able to find or hold down a job.
These issues also need to be covered in more depth, with a more cause-and-effect perspective, as I believe some of the panelists touched on. I felt this was an excellent point. Otherwise, again, many viewers/readers will just write them off as deadbeats who “asked for it,” never understanding the complex underlying circumstances which led them to their fate, so vital to changing public perception.
If only there were a magic formula to appeal to people’s natural selfishness in such a way that they can empathize with (rather than demonize) the poor because they can visualize themselves in their shoes, a place they most definitely do not wish to be.
But, we know whose running the media outlets and we sure as heck know they’d prefer we stay in the dark about the elimination of the middle class, that is, until it’s too late.
Of course, until anyone can figure out how to make this all profitable for the networks and press giants, it ain’t gonna happen. It is my sincere hope that those “internets” may well have a decisive impact in the future on this issue so crucial to the survival of justice and democracy in this country.
Thank you for your excellent contribution to this most enlightening forum.
I sooo want a copy of the whole thing, but CSPAN2 keeps running different segments here and there and you never know when they will show up.
Respectfully,
Melanie
Kathy — btw, now that you’ve commented, there is no going back to just reading. ;-)
Percent of people aged 65 and over below poverty level, by state:
http://www.statemaster.com/gra.....erty-level
I hope you all don’t mind my posting so many statistical links, but I do believe that no one can make useful policy decisions without mountains of stats.
sofistic at 96 — Keep them coming. I find it very useful to look at this sort of thing from every angle I can find. Much appreciated from me.
Thanks, Christy… let’er rip.
Bankruptcy filings percapita by state, 2000-2005
http://www.statemaster.com/gra.....per-capita
AOB @ 70
Another thought - Maybe you should run for congress? Is your district well represented? We need people w/ life experiences like yours. Think about it.
Welfare caseloads percapita, by state.
http://www.statemaster.com/gra.....per-capita
Education: Elementary and secondary students eligible for reduced lunch prices, percapita, by state:
http://www.statemaster.com/gra.....per-capita
Education: Expenditures percapita, by state.
http://www.statemaster.com/gra.....per-capita
marksb @ 16
If only we could get the public at large to understand “the big picture” about how free trade fosters both injustice and poverty both here and abroad, and allows American companies to exploit foreign workers and pollute their communities, while outsourcing our jobs in massive numbers. We need to connect the dots for them in ways that are simple to understand, somehow.
Late to the threads but here it is.
Thank you Christy, AOB, sofistic and Rayne. You all hit important points so well as I skimmed through the last two threads.
By the mid eighties this young man (early twenties with a high school equivalency) had a plan for college education. California! I managed to establish residency and earn a nice living in personnel (40K per yr.). I had to leave fifty hour weeks and take a 8.00 per hr. part time job in retail in order to have time for study. My folks were divorced, mother remarried in a combined income at the level where financial aid would be out of the question for me. My father had assets tied up with family farm debt and other family members that made it impossible to help yet impossible for my eligibility for aid. (donut hole?) Tuition rates would have been out of the question had I moved back to a state where family would have been able to help with housing. I managed to make it through a couple of years before the constant lack of food impaired my health. Thus the end of the beginning of my higher education. I loved college. I needed college. I wanted a college education. A couple of thousand a year (except in credit card debt which I was not willing to do) would have made all the difference.
I went on to break a lot of rules successfully such as open a business with no education in accounting or planning. So far so good. It bothers me that I am an excellent example of a failed educational system, I fought the good fight and twenty years down the road ( at the age of 41) the time to return to the ring is once again upon me. It’s not the thought of school or other uncertainties that concerns me but the constant rejection of pleas for help and impoverished nutrition levels that may or may not pay off.
I may have made a few wrong choices at a few turns (or not) but I always worked hard from the first opportunity with a paper route, chopping cotton, whatever possible. I always looked ahead of me and planned. In our constantly changing economic environment I can’t help but think many are in similar mid life cross roads. It’s a shame one must drain all resources (repeatedly) in order to take a gamble and ask for help to better themselves and the society we live in.
On a completely different point. I attended sixteen schools during K - 11. The worst school a small south Arkansas high school had the smallest class size.
John in CA @99
I’m flattered,but I have a criminal past(for drugs),and I’m raising an autistic teenager,and I lack a college education. I live in GA,and no I’m not well represented,but there is no Dem party apparatus here to fight back,not that I can find. Ack. I could rail on for days just about that alone. My experiences with GA Dems has ranged from comical to infuriating.
I’m more interested in figuring out ways to rid communities of poverty,not rid them of the poor. Microlending is something I’ve been looking at(ala Grammeen Bank)and thinking of ways to adapt that for use in America. There has to be a way. And family farms,we need our family farms back in tact again.
OT - if you want to scare yourself silly, head on over to No Quarter and read the latest post, Two Women Puzzle Out Saddam’s Hanging and Iran
quite frightening detail attached to the shrub’s stalling tactics…
Switching back to nationmaster now: Trade Union membership (percent) by country. Notice that the US is next to last in this group, with France at the bottom.
http://www.nationmaster.com/gr.....membership
I’ve always thought that greed is the root cause of pretty much all problems. Maybe throw in a little low self-esteem. I had an idea for a book, fiction, that involved the president declaring that money would no longer be used in the US. From now on, all food, clothing and housing would be free throughout the country. If everyone had all the food and clothes they needed and a place to stay, what else would really be needed? Would there really be a need to steal anything? If you could walk into a store and get a hamburger or a beer or whatever at any time, how many robberies would there be?
Of course, people would still need to work to produce all the same goods that are produced now. But if we could get food, clothes and housing for free, would we really need a paycheck or any money? There is more to life than food and clothes, so if we wanted a tv, why shouldn’t we be able to make tvs and provide them at no cost? why would we need to charge any money if we all can get what we need for free?
Is this idea “bad” or “communist”? Why shouldn’t it work? Because we are greedy and selfish? Could something like this work and slowly poverty and crime and other societal ills disappear?
why shouldn’t there be free universal healthcare? Surely, a billion dollars a month not spent killing innocent people around the world and building usless weapon systems, would fund that.
Christy Hardin Smith @
92
welcome, Kathy, come back and comment again, the water’s fine and, as CHS illustrated in her response, the blogmistresses here really appreciate more engagement with thoughtful commenters!
I have a silly nagging sense that when we get a Democrat in the White House in 2009, he’ll open the dollar-free treasury to the sound of crickets and the sight of stacks of promissory notes in Chinese. Has our MidEast misadventure so bankrupted our nation — economically and spiritually — that we will remember the Clinton Years as the last best hope for mankind and America? I fear this.
Free higher education for anyone at any age! Minimal financial aid (with a one page, one stop form) for those who are in the process of improving their education.
Edwards said today in NH on the live cast feed when asked a question about Mental health care, that is should be equally covered in the Universal Health Care plan. That too long Mental health issue have been left outside. He firmly stated they should get equal coverage.
I am for Edwards, this makes me even stronger.
Yesterday in the cast from Iowa, I liked hearing him say that he was against the draft.
OldCoastie @
106
hated to read that, OC, but it put all my fears to words. like the writer, I hope it doesn’t happen, but I’m terrified she got it exactly right.
Since you brought up Dorothea Lange - who/m I love - Margaret Bourke White also had incredible photo essays - check this picture out
OT - Ford funeral on CNN
man, I am sad today….
TeddySanFran @ 113
‘Tis the season for another Bush attack. Like father, like son, we will do this again in the gulf. Bush won’t announce anything until it’s past the point of debate.
OldCoastie, man that’s some sobering reading. I can see why you’re sad.
It fits what we’ve been talking about with the Navy fleet in the Gulf.
Fits Bush stalling, holding his meetings in Crawford when he could have done them in DC over the last month.
Fits the leaked orders for troops that are deploying now.
Fits Trader Joe’s bipartisan essay today.
Fits Saint John’s drive for the surge and the presidency.
It all fits like some horrible puzzle that suddenly comes into focus with the face of Satan.
yup, marksb, you got it…
twolf1 @ 88
Those poor, poor “surge” troops - think what they will be walking into after this.
If we need to fix povery in this coumtry then why on earth are you liberals for bringing in illegal aliens who once they become citizens we will have to take care of? Why not take care of our own first? How much of your paycheck would you be willing to give up to solve this problem? How many of you would be willing to let an illegal alien family live with you in your home? That’s what I thought.
just a suggestion, marksb, but you may want to post that comment over at the cross-posting over at DKos
very insightful
sofistic @ 96
I appreciate the links. I’m very interested in socio-economic demographics. So much info out there, if I only knew where/how to look. So, thank you.
Oh goody, we have a troll in the house (Brad @ 121). Guess he missed the report pointing out that illegals put more money into the economy than they take out.
Christy Hardin Smith @
94
Yep - them’s the rules….welcome.
Middle class, upper middle class and wealthy citizens of America really do not have a grasp of poverty and what poverty causes. I mean, sure the company they work for has a charity fund they give money to, and once a year they have a good neighbors day, helping the less fortunate. For these people, to get a full understanding of how poverty affects them, I am sorry, but you’re going to have to slap them up side the head. And here is my reasoning. I work as an engineer at a major corp., I was talking to a couple of my Republican friends and of course they started to raze me about free government cheese. I am a Democrat. Unfortunately this just happen to be a bad day for me, so I asked them. “Have you ever have any of that government cheese?” This stunned them into silence. “Ever been on welfare?” “Ever use food stamps?” After I said “I have, I grew up poor, I grew up on welfare.” Looking at their jaw dropping, stupidified expression for a moment, I went back to work. They could not understand the concept of being poor, that poor people do not want to live in poverty. That some times people just need a hand to help them out of a bad situation, was a foreign concept to them. So unless you have worked with or been poor, how much do you really understand what they are going through. I purposely left out the lower middle class because they are only a paycheck or two away from being poor. One last thing, the “So unless…” and on statements, are a generalization and is not always the case.
OT - Josh is on fire
It’s a hornet’s nest. But I’m game. So why not jump in.
“Bush administration officials” are telling CNN that Saddam Hussein will be hanged this weekend. Convention dictates that we precede any discussion of this execution with the obligatory nod to Saddam’s treachery, bloodthirsty rule and tyranny. But enough of the cowardly chatter. This thing is a sham, of a piece with the whole corrupt, disastrous sham that the war and occupation have been. Bush administration officials are the ones who leak the news about the time of the execution. One key reason we know Saddam’s about to be executed is that he’s about to be transferred from US to Iraqi custody, which tells you a lot. And, of course, the verdict in his trial gets timed to coincide with the US elections.
This whole endeavor, from the very start, has been about taking tawdry, cheap acts and dressing them up in a papier-mache grandeur — phony victory celebrations, ersatz democratization, reconstruction headed up by toadies, con artists and grifters. And this is no different. Hanging Saddam is easy. It’s a job, for once, that these folks can actually see through to completion. So this execution, ironically and pathetically, becomes a stand-in for the failures, incompetence and general betrayal of country on every other front that President Bush has brought us.
more at
www.talkingpointsmemo.com
Some argue a military draft without loopholes makes things more fair. And some think that the way to stop wars like Vietnam and Iraq from happening is to bring back the draft.
Imagine how many would be dead if we had a draft.
Two wrongs wouldn’t excuse Bushco or congress horrific action of preemptive war on innocents.
Edwards on cnn…
I am not trying to argue the merits of a military draft. But there seems to be a case can be made for pro or con.
In either case, it’s probably going to come down to nuclear.
And as I recall, during the Vietnam thing, draftees were prime movers in stopping that fiasco.
marksb @
118
mark - if you aren’t registered over at the big orange, I’d be happy to post this for you… (but you gotta give me the “go”)
azapache @ 126
The great thing about this is that you just shattered many of their preconceived notions about poor people in a matter of a few seconds. Way to go!
The loyal opposition has behaved ever so nicely while the Republicans ravaged our country and others caught in the crosshairs of Bush’s “Wars for Democracy.” Who/what can explain it?
There is too much of a tendency to blame poor people for being poor. Most of us are far too close to poverty, one injury or illness. Lose six months or a year of work and you never recover. We finally decided as a society that racial and gender bias are wrong, and we’re awakening to the stupidity of homophobia. Now if only we could agree that bias against the needy is wrong. We knew that for a while after the depression. Without some major changes soon, we’re going to be reminded.
sadly, jobs that once lifted people out of poverty are no longer available - they’ve all been nafta’d cafta’d and china’d away.so lots of us are educated but no place to be somebody - to borrow a title. sure there’s plenty of nickel and dime jobs to be had but try living or raising a family on that. right now on hardball chris and edwards are discussing poverty issues………..
mandrake @ 134
azapache @ 126
I am a white male right winger but there was a time when I was on food stamps and it was a blessing. The problem is that there are a lot, and I mean a lot who never have any intention of getting off the dole. Government programs need to be there for those who really need them for anyone can fall and need help up. I personally know people who have been on assistance their entire lives. One woman in particular has had three illigitimate children all paid to be born by the tax payers. She now has section * housing, foodstamps, terrific free health care and has worked maybe two years in her entire life. this woman is white. Had this woman had to of paid for her children to be born and was actually made to pay for them she would never would have had them in the first place. Unfortunately those who are wealthy from their own work ( i do not include government employees in this class for they are even worse than welfare recipients) do not have an obligation to help anybody. they are taking care of themselves which is all they should be required to do. Welfare only helps the rich. What is happening os the middle class is being taxed to give money to the so called poor which makes them consumers for the products that the rich sell. Food companies, diaper companies, pharmacutical companies, etc. are making a killing through taxpayer government assistance. Even the owners of apartment buildings are making money through section eight housing. The rich will never allow welfare to be brokenb. Never.
Brad@139
I was not talking per say about people just on welfare. I was talking about people who live in poverty or pretty damn close to it. It could be a man with a wife and child that works at Wal-Mart and has a second job after that. A woman that cleans offices or houses and then goes to work at McDonalds. I was stammered when the President of the United States congratulated a woman for working three jobs to support her and her kids. In this great country, why does a person have to work three jobs in order to survive? But if you want to talk about welfare lets talk about welfare. Why does the U.S. give tax breaks to corporations that close factories here and move them offshore? Why is there 15,700 U.S. corporations headquartered in a white 5 story building down in the Cayman Islands and not paying any U.S. taxes. I do not think any of these business want to get off of the dole either. And the last time I checked most people on welfare are white.
Brad @ 121
Brad,
A recent study estimates that the Iraq war will end up costing us over $2 trillion. Bush is throwing money into the military as if there were no one else in America and no other problems but the “war on terror.” And there is no accountability. No matter how this administration screws up the war, and messes up Iraq, the money keeps pouring in.
I assure you, we are not spending anywhere near this amount of money on shoes or vaccinations for illegal immigrants.
That giant hole in your paycheck is your tax dollars tearing through it on their way to the Pentagon. I’d worry about that before you worry about illegal immigrants (at least from the pov of money being taken out of your pocket).
And Christy and everyone else, thanks for the warm welcome!
Lulubelle @
136
Amen. Unfortunately, I think another Great Depression is what it will take to hammer it home for most people.
azapache @ 140
I have lived in poverty as a young divorced mother of 2. I have also worked my way out and worked in social services.
so I know poverty.
What it takes is Education and access to education. I was lucky in that when I went to college it was paid with a grant. That got me on my feet and helped me land a good job.
But, you need transportation, babysitting and education. If that can be made available to those in poverty it would greatly help.
When a person is going to college they need help with rent, food and the essentials.
You need to make programs work. The silliness of 4 forms for the same info is stupid. It needs to be streamlined. and computerized. It’s possible to help people if the money went to efficient improvements and tossing out the unneeded crap. If it is moderized and updated and streamlined the agencies would have alot more money and time and more people could be helped.
I am an Australian, but the problems of poverty and disadvantage in Australia are essentially the same as in the US with the exception that the war on poor people that misleadingly calls itself “the war on drugs” has not advanced nearly as far as it has in the US and hence not yet done so much damage.
I do not believe you can understand the current approach to poverty and disadvantage without consideration of how thinking about morality distorts the debate. One needs the examine the concepts of “deservingness” and “undeservingness” which are rarely stated explicitly, but deeply embedded in the minds of many in the respectable (IE not poor) classes.
The concept of the “deserving poor” which originated in Victorian times is still around but only as the opposite of “the undeserving poor” which covers the vast majority of poor people.
In the mind of the moralist, the human race is divided into two disjoint classes, the Deserving and the undeserving. The deserving are good people who are deserving of good things regardless of their actual behavior. If one of them acts rightly they are deserving of effusive praise and rich reward, but if he acts wrongly, they do not warrant the vicious response from the organs of law and order that is reserved for the undeserving. The undeserving are judged and treated in the opposite manner, if one of them acts rightly it does not mean he deserves praise or reward, nor is it taken as evidence of good character, it only means that he has not yet been caught acting wrongly either because he is sufficiently clever and sly or because he is too unenterprising and stupid to conceive of the advantages of wrong action. When one of the undeserving acts wrongly though, it is evidence of irremediable bad character and justification for the severest punishment possible.
When applied to social issues, this thinking about the deserving and the undeserving gives rise to a moral imperative. It is morally wrong to spend resources on the undeserving in ways that benefit them. It might be argued by liberal bleeding heart types that rehabilitating criminals may in the long run save resources but the moral imperative rules it out. Therefore spending on police, prosecutors and prisons grows inevitably.
However when a son or daughter of the respectable such as your current president’s niece engages in behavior which would get a poor nigger a prison sentence the draconian penalties go missing. This unfortunate person is a basically good but made an one unfortunate choice and prison would be an inconvenience for them. The moral imperative is to find creative ways to avoid unnecessary damage, a bit of a grovel and a few months in rehab not available to one of the undeserving and they are welcomed back to society.
It may well be that generations back, the ancestors of today’s undeserving poor were of the deserving poor. But as they and their descendants behavior changed to that typical of the underclass they lost status as deserving. The thing about the underclass is that it corrodes those aspects of behavior that moralists see as evidence of good character and that are necessary for escape from the underclass to be possible. The underclass also encourages behavior such as quick resort to violence since that is the only means for a member to avoid victim status. Moralists look at the totality of the behavior of underclass and see all the choices that members make where they would have chosen differently without realizing that the perspective available to the moralist that allows them to conceive of different choice is not available to those stuck in the underclass.
No progress can be made against underclass poverty unless this moral imperative to do good to people one despises in manner which results in maximum harm to them is exposed and countered. The single worst case of this is the so called war on drugs.
[Mod Note; edited to remove terms offensive to many Americans but more common in Australia]
McCreary Co Ky in Appalachia is one of the poorest in the U.S. But, they have an online paper.
http://www.tmcvoice.com/
What we see here in this county and in similar areas of unemployment around this changing nation are the casualties of this economic war. War is the right word for what is happening, for it is a battle between those who work for a living and those who profit from their labors.
http://www.tmcvoice.com/web-co.....82604.html
Thirty-two percent of the population lives in poverty according to the Federal Guidelines, the second highest rate in Kentucky… Eighty-three percent of the students in the school system participate in the free or reduced-price lunch program. We estimate that seventy percent of the county’s third grade children do not have dictionaries in their homes.
http://www.tmcvoice.com/web-co.....31104.html