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The federal government is spending money to keep people abstinent until 29 years old. Seriously. No, no, I mean it. It’s like the Handmaid’s Tale without the mass infertility.
I remember when we used to hear this stuff and shake our heads in disbelief. Then somehow we shifted into cynical acceptance that it was just a scam to funnel millions into the pockets of fundamentalist whack jobs to turn out the GOP vote. It made the US look like freaks and anti-intuitive prudes to the international community and did untold damage to reproductive rights in this country, but with the outrage meter already pinning over torture, the destruction of habeas corpus and hundreds of thousands dead in Iraq, it was hard to devote the kind of emotional fuel to this stuff that the absurdity certainly demanded.
This sort of rewriting of history by Focus on the Family and others as well as their tendency to pretend society agrees with them when it demonstrably does not would be funny, but the press takes them seriously.
These people are nuts, and it would be nice if the press stopped coddling them and pretending they were either reasonable or rational.
*in the words of the immortal TBogg
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Go Jane!
ROOTZ!
Without healthy, ecstatic orgasms, how can you have good policy?
Jane,
I surely hope that the bloom is off this particular rose. Don’t know whether or not the newly found disenchantment with BushCo will spread into this realm, but I surely hope so.
One by one kids grow up- and eventually they screw- two by two- and slowly the crazed myth that they will be pure for life falls away.
Fitz. Now. Right now.
I’m a 66 year old virgin. I stay with the program that has been set out for me. I’m happy, glad even, that folks will not do it until the government tells us to do so.
Yes we all must follow the Fundie rules.
Cheneys excepted naturally.
And those slutty Bush twins too, of course. I predict a rise in STD’s in Latin America after they’re through.
When the government announces some new problem, always look for the opportunity to make money. In everything they do.
Crazy Horse @
3
that explains a lot about the past six years
Miss Junior USA is in the crapper for drinking
Miss USA is in danger of gettin fired for –well I can’t remember but it’s BAD- and now THIS:
NEW YORK – Miss Nevada USA was stripped of her title Thursday after racy photos of her appeared on the Internet, pageant officials said.
Some of the photos show Katie Rees, 22, kissing other young women, exposing one of her breasts and pulling down her pants to show her thong underwear at a party in Tampa, Fla.
“Katie Rees has been relieved of her duties as Miss Nevada USA 2007,” said Paula M. Shugart, president of the Miss Universe Organization, which owns the Miss USA pageant and others”
Why can’t these beauty queens live up to the expectations that those who are makin money off of em have for em?
egregious @ 9
Yes!! I intend to whore myself to the Bush twins. I know they have money. And, I have a lot of…. if you know what I mean.
guaranteed to be a collectors’ item:
Katie Rees should ask Mary Cheney for help.
I don’t remember the author, but a study was published this week that purports to show what everyone already anectdotally knows – that 95% of us had (are having) premarital sex and that this has been the case since the late 1950’s!
What a terrible waste of public funds and resources that could be used for STDs.
rwcole @ 11
p r o j e c t i o n , much?
Killing (as in Iraq and Palestine) is fine. As long as it is my kind of killing. That is, the ‘right kind’ of killing. The people of this country are responsible for what our government does in our name.
Being gay I’m not allowed to have pre-marital sex.
All I’ve ever done is freelance fucking.
David Ehrenstein @
14
I think that’s one reason why James Dobson is “too busy” to help Ted Haggard.
We will not a-komodo-date them.
Hey, Honey… I’m home (throws car keys down)
Could someone fix me a drink?
OldCoastie @ 21
sorry, this is an abstinence thread. how about a Shirley Temple?
C’mon Jane. Over here. Right now…let’s get in on. You are so fookin hot, so fookin intelligent, let’s show these rubes a thingrtwo. Absintheness… make mine a double.
Moderators, please excuse me, i lost control. me lost in the swarm of the lake. won’t do it again.
Absintheness makes the heart grow fonder.
punaise @ 22
nah, I’ll fix my own damn drink… but thanks, Punaise! Is this week almost over?
;-)
Many people find it better to abstain with someone else- and warm music- and a couple of drinks- and a bed with a view…
Imagine bein 18 and havin someone tell ya that what you really need to do is abstain!!
“Hey- fuck you- I’m abstaining right now and I HATE it!”
need a gut check for abstains?
From My DD:
McCain keeps hiring smart staffers (hat tip Bluejersey).
Jill Hazelbaker, battle tested in New Jersey this year as Tom Kean Jr.’s Communications Director, is headed to John McCain’s presidential campaign. She will serve as Communications Director for McCain’s campaign in New Hampshire.
Jill Hazelbaker it seems has a little penchant for posting on liberal blogs and lying about it. Bluejersey is the site that caught her, and the New York Times had the story:
The Internet postings came from people calling themselves “cleanupnj,” “usedtobeblue” and “AmadeusNJ.”
Hell, if it keeps them kids from gettin the AIDS and somehow stops them from shooting those goddamned reefers into their veins, then I’m for it. I mean really…where in the Bible does it say anything about it being wrong to spread misinformation for the sake of parents who are too afraid of having conversations with their children on topics that embarrass them? Show me where it says “parents can’t be ignorant” in the Bible and I’ll think about different.
“Shoot…we ain’t payin’ all them der-gone taxes for nothin’! President take care of it so eye’s don’t gotta get conversatin’ bout the icky-icky with Shirlene, Bucky and Daisy, then I’m a grateful man fo it!
Just Say No! Worked on them drugs, din-it?”
Arianna on Joe Scar.
Nancy invented a new sex campaign- “Just say BLOW”!
Abstinence works! Just not for humans.
Abstinence is a favorite hobby among the dead.
Why does Joan Walsh always look like she is in pain? Or is it only me who thinks so?
jeffreyw @ 31
Arianna.
Crazy Horse @
3
ya can’t…it’s all a big scam and there’s nothing we can do to change it, anyway. Abstinence results in cynical, bitter cold-hearted, fatalistic conspiracy theorists
somehow I don’t think this is an abstinence crowd… don’t you feel ashamed?
“Abstinence results in cynical, bitter cold-hearted, fatalistic conspiracy theorists”
Really? Who’d know?
Joe keeps saying that he voted for Bush twice, and was for the war, and assumes that this gives him enhanced credibility.
it’s not normal. in fact, it’s Abby Normal
You wanna see a few million people who are angry, frustrated and possibly prone to violence against the US – just tell every 17-29 year-old in this country that they can no longer get laid…
Tail-i-ban?
Sayin yer abstinent and screwin like a rabbit is apparently harmless- it’s so popular.
Okay I admit it. Had to check out the Katie Rees photos.
http://www.tmz.com/photos/miss-nevada/114764/
Arianna says it like it is. It’s up to the Democrats.
The Abstinence Army recruiters promise they can have anything they want to get them to sign up.
But the kids aren’t getting any.
Someone put them damned red stars right in front of the best parts!!
rwcole @ 47
Communists.
Jane Hamsher @ 44
I was totally abstaining until Jane made me check ‘em out. So it’s not my fault, it’s the liberal media.
got real quiet around here after Jane @ 44….
rwcole @ 47
Isn’t that what the republicans do by instinct?
I really like Joan Walsh too!
Who is Joan Walsh? Does she abstain?
slight rant coming up;
we know as a fact there were times when a mans mortality was in the 20’s and girls were married in their young teens
we also know jewish law declares manhood at 13
if we are to believe in god, and god’s design, he designed us to have a sex drive when we reach adolescence
in the past, when women were married by the time they became 20, it wasn’t that difficult to remain celebant
however, if we are to accept the social idea’s today, that 20 is too young for marriage, we also have to accept the FACT that there will be sex among the vast majority of healthy human beings
like breathing…you don’t need to do that in your mother’s womb, you haven’t reached that stage of developement, the same is true for a persons’s sex drive
we first develope the drive for sex in our young teens, jewish law accepts this to be around 13
and again;
if we are to beleive in god, we have to also believe that the sex drive is actually a commandment from the almighty himself;
(go forth and multiply)
dogs have sex when they’re a few years old, that’s when their hormpones drive their need
it’s a physiological need, not a want…when a person is raised with the idea that this physiological developement is a “sin”, that doesn’t stop the urge, it just makes a person feel “dirty” and “sinful”, “going to hell”
like a tatoo, once we are “sinful”, it becomes a little bit easier to accept other “sins”
the other “sins” might actually be evil, sex is not, but if we are tought that it is, we will think we are evil for needing it.
like eating, breathing, defacating, urinating, no amount of calling these biological functions a “sin” will prevent us from doing them
sex is not a choice it’s in the design that the almight himself is architech
rwcole @ 53
Editor (?) Salon.com; she abstains from smiling. Don’t know about anything else.
rwcole @ 53
Salon.com
Why am I getting the feeling that a few woman are smarter than a lot of men? Is it just me?
rwcole @ 47
Well ya gotta admit she certainly seems to be a good sport.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 57
You’re delerious, call 911, lie down and BREATHE…through your nose, into this bag…that’s right…now go to church
wow. i thought that was mandatory behavior for miss nevada.
rumi, the link I posted is on the late night thread here and thanks for the positive words.
Hell, Miss Nevada carrying on like that is no different than Miss Iowa eating an ear of corn.
I like Rosie O’. I dislike Trump. Intensely.
Scarborough and Buchanan blasting Bush on war. “He is not a king” say both.
i dislike both rosie and the donald equally, but i happened to have thought the same sort of logic the night before about the donald: who is this man of many divorces/affairs to give us a moral compass?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
I know plenty of you here don’t trust scarboruogh but I like him
before the election he said as a republican that believed in the ideals of the party, the current version was detached
he actually said he was hoping the democrats would win majority
and today, I heard him as much as call for the impeachment of president bush
I like him
re: the title:
I find it a bit difficult to imagine abstinence being thrust upon anyone, abstinence is more the state of having nothing thrust upon you!
(the only abstinence I practice is against my will)
skippy @ 65
Donald Trump, moral
compass or pompous moronbdu @ 67
I’m with you, I don’t have to practice abstinence, I’m an unwilling expert
rwcole @ 39
I know because I’ve been withou …uhm,….I mean reading, yeah, that’s it…I read something about that at …uhm,.. ConspiracyPlanet….or DeviantArt, or somewhere.
Only republican talibangelicals could waste money like this. After all I always saved money in times of abstinence.
Could someone tell the fundies absinthe is already illegal.
perris @ 66
Scarborough (a Republican who voted twice for Bush and supported the Iraq invasion) certainly makes sense on Iraq now. Hillary, where are you? As if I give a f…
skippy @
60
It was part of her audition for the Spearmint Rhino. She’ll probably make more money too.
Old Gold @ 62
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
bdu @ 67
Huzzah!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 72
before the election he was calling for democratic vitory in order to bring oversite and sanity back into the government…no kidding, he said he hoped the democrats won back a majority
Cut to:
Situation room, walled with screens of Katie Rees sucking and Joan Walsh smiling. The Domina of State, held taught by her slick shining black leather bustier, strides around the hard marble table clicking her thigh high boots in measured cadence.
Condoleeza
Crawl, chimp, my boots don’t shine. Use your
tongue.
The diapered chimp crawls to the shining boots, licking as if the world depended on his tongue. The Domina of State flicks the sharp leather whip between his petulous, cringing thighs.
Condoleeza
Abstain, you little dog, and don’t mess my boots.
The esteemd Senator from C*ntneckticutt sits behind the one-way glass, his hands flailing at his imagined hard…
Tune in next week for the thrilling contortion!
xxxxx
Moderators, really, i won’t do it again (I can’t help myself, it has something to do with living near Berlin.)
rumi @ 74
guess that explains all the spam touting ConAgra lately
Abstinence? No way, I saw what abstinence did to Flora (last nights Late Nite).
…randy acts of kinkness
I think that Focus on the Family suffers from an acute case of DSB…it puts too much pressure on their brains (where they sit)
punaise @ 80
I love randi
randi rhodes, my hero…love to get her here for an interview, that’s for sure
I want out of Iraq. I support American troops; I want them home. I want the Israeli government out of Gaza. I want the Bush criminals held responsible in a tribunal. Tall order.
How do you know she isn’t already here?
Scarborough is interesting … I think the lack of action during Katrina tipped him over the edge into some form of reality – he was truly outraged during that time and called out Bush over and over … plus he organized his church to bring in supplies … now I wouldn’t like his church I suspect but they got in and got their hands dirty to help people.
Siun @ 85
You know, sometimes reality is so strong that it becomes too hard for them to keep saying “the Raiders are going to win the Super Bowl” year after year.
Silent night…
:)
This thread’s a crack-up.
Urban Pirate @ 88
What, you don’t blog in the nude like the rest of us?
At age 58 I can proudly state that I have doubled the Republican expectation for a pure life until merely 29. The joys I have experienced as a result can hardly be summed up in words.
No! Do not envy me — do not praise me — do not judge me as beyond other mortals. That is for the On High to decide. I am merely he who has been fortunate beyond the dreams of ordinary men. I shall persevere, yea unto my, um, 87th birthday, when I will have trebled the Republican promise!
God be with you, and on your way out, couldya hand me the kleenex and that Purest Among House Pages magazine?
punaise @
80
oh, haha, punaise, I read it as “randy acts of kittens” and had a 707 while watching my kitten clean his tender kitty parts.
Twisted Martini @ 84
r u randi?
I heart u
want to cure my abstinence problem?
I used to think iheartjane was Stephanie Miller.
perris @ 69
I think that just became a corollary to the TBogg axiom.
Mommybrain @ 91
cats have no inhibitions…
Jane Hamsher @ 94
i heart jane
jane’s married, randi isn’t
/me lonely man
I will never be able to believe that Joe Scarborough is sincere, but at least he has managed to segue over to the sane side. That is more than Hannity and O’Reilly and Limbaugh could do if they had a thousand morally rotted, drug-addicted lifetimes ahead of them. Or… wait… are they really vampires? Suddenly I understand everything!
The dark secret behind ‘Focus on the Family’ begins to unfold when you discover that the “o” in “Focus” is meant to be a “u,” and that there is a “k” between the “c” and the “u.” Also, substitute “in” for “on”, and the twisted fantasy world of James Dobson is suddenly revealed.
As the chimp would say, it’s “subliminable.”
Maybe the Dept. of HHS should be checkin’ in on the good doctor?
bdu @ 67
bdu–
You’re tied for winning one of the two ponies for your prediction of the winners on election night. iirc you had 6/31.
Ralph @ 97
solstice is over tonight, vampires will be comming out more now
as far as scarborough being sincere or not…tough call
I posted this downstairs and if you haven’t seen this clip over at c&L, make sure you watch it beginnign to end
scarborough is punnishing bush and he is nothing short of brutal
at the end of this piece, he doesn’t come out and say it, but he is definately asking somoene to suggest impeaching him
watch the video at c&L here
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/12/21/12969/
Randi does rock, so does Jane, Christy, Rayne, Egregious and the rest of the badass ladies auxillary.
Thanks for the linky, Jane.
Saved me the trouble.
off 2 bed
g’night firedogs
two beers @ 98
I forgot just how funny this was;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&eurl=
Twisted Martini @ 101
u r not randi?
*damn it*
off to bed now…g’night firedogs, and if you’re here randi rhodes, g’night 2 u 2
Patrick 4/4 @ 24
Why is everyone going to bed?
Damn you east coasters.
absence makes the heart go wander
Impeachment Happens @ 108
You assume they’re going to sleep.
Come this January, I am hoping this will not be the beginning of my long ‘winter of discontent’ with my political party. Culminating in ravaging disappointment come autumn 2008.
Making the beast with 2 backs?
Marathon not a sprint OK, lots of work ahead.
The early bedtimes must be those living the abstinence vicariously through others. Either that or they’re keeping the best details to themselves.
the BaLA rocks.
Patrick 4/4 @ 109
give them 2 more minutes and they will be back
Urban Pirate @ 104
I forgot just how funny this was;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..#038;eurl=
Oh! thank you for that link. Punaise would love it.
Twisted Martini @ 113
And remain to practice safe linkage. Because everyone you link has linked, on average, 5-10 other sites and they’ve each linked to 5-10 other sites which have each…
I need to go get the anti-bacterial hand soap.
The impression in this house is that Scarborough is being authentic on his displeasure with Bush on the issue of Iraq.
two beers @
98
Ralph Reed and Jack Abramoff were good friends. Focus on the Family is a front organization.
Patrick 4/4 @ 117
only if you link to the Thug sites.
Suzanne @ 115
‘cuz right in the middle of it somebody shouts New Thread!
any Canadians here? Any truth to the joke about hockey games?
Honey wait! Don’t stop now! Don’t stop…Don’t stop – Damn!
EPU’d again.
Twisted Martini @
119
…but, the site looked so clean, I thought it would be safe to link around. It seemed so ‘nice’, ya know, like one I’d forward home to the folks.
Ok, now I have to ask. Is it normal to have a pop-up window that lasts for more than 4 hours or should I call a professional for advice and treatment?
…damn cookies. I knew I shouldn’t have taken so many.
Headline at Drudge:
“MEET THE WOMAN WHO SLEPT WITH 100,000 MEN”
Missing are the words: “But you probably already have”.
Some call her a slut- others a very aggressive hobbiest.
rumi @ 125
That’s why I use Internet Explorer. There’s always a pop-up ready whenever you are.
Patrick 4/4 @ 128
The Little Blue Icon.
heh: in French there is a phrase used to describe a perpetually grumpy person (male or female): mal baise (accent on the ‘e’). literally, it means “poorly kissed”, but baiser also means, well, you know…
Here’s a bit of pornography:
Do you approve or disapprove of the way Dick Cheney is handling his job as vice president?”
.
Approve Disapprove Unsure
% % %
12/15-17/06
39 56 5
39% job approval for Cheney- that’s obscene! Which part of his job are they approving of? Personal defense?
punaise @ 130
and bouillabaisse?
Hi Punaise,
I know you have considered the Onion thing, but after watching UP’s YouTube link, it seems to me that you might have made your fame by being a bushprexy speech-writer. (a la the link).
Bull – ya baiser?
When I first started using IE, it was just once in a while, for fun, and I could quit anytime I wanted. After a while, I couldn’t get a pop-up window to save my life, but that’s when I was fooling around with Firefox. I had no idea of my dependence.
Patrick 4/4 @ 134
Hi Patrick 4/4. Just wondering when this is going to transmogrify to brassieres.
rumi @ 135
I use Opera. Am I gay?
Valley Girl @ 136
Transmogrify.
Heh.
egregious @ 99
You’re tied for winning one of the two ponies for your prediction of the winners on election night. iirc you had 6/31.
Heh, thanks, yeah, I noticed that after Ciro won… but hey, FL13 is still up in the air, and besides, I’m allergic to horses ;0)
Bush issues 16 pardons –
I double checked –
Used ta have a bullybaster round here- but that Cheney girl took it.
Valley Girl @ 136
Hi yourself. Just stepped out to the Brasserie Punaise for a snack.
Patrick 4/4 @ 136
I’m not sure if it means you’re gay but it probably means you have slightly fewer options for hooking up with as many sites.
I’ve been hooked on Firefox since I met her but I hear Opera is user friendly too.
Patrick 4/4 @
Brasserie Punaise for a snack.
Oooooo… I like that!
Le Brasserie Punaise.
rumi @ 143
I have fewer options, but then again, I have standards.
oops, that would be La Brasserie Punaise.
so …
I was just catching up with Howie’s travel blog and am sitting here laughing hyterically … his joie de vie and nonstop partisanship are just too wonderful for words! Don’t miss the penguin boat and CO guy … sheesh! I always dicuss Tancredo on my vacations!
http://aroundtheworldblog.blogspot.com/
Gore Vidal tells some, not all, in latest memoir
Robin Hayes has the solution to the Iraq war: have our soldiers convert all Muslims to Christianity.
Having won the election by only a hair’s width and almost getting himself kicked out of Congress seems to have had some profound psychological effects on poor Mr. Hayes. A speech that flip-floppin’ Robin gave last week at the Concord Rotary Club seems to prove he has finally gone off the deep end.
Our local weekly newspaper the “Concord Standard and Mount Pleasant Times” reported on Mr. Hayes speech in his hometown:
First there’s the usual talk of how we’re “winning” over there:
“The war in Iraq has got to be won; it’s being won”
(A couple of months ago Hayes said that the rise in violence in Iraq was an indication that we’re winning.)
Then comes the real kicker:
“Stability in Iraq ultimately depends on spreading the message of Jesus Christ, the message of peace on earth, good will towards men. Everything depends on everyone learning about the birth of the Savior.”
So if we just turn our soldiers into missionaries everything will be okay, Mr. Hayes?
First we sent our men over there to take out the WMD’s, then it was to “spread democracy”, now you want them there to “spread the message of Jesus Christ”?
It so happens that people in Iraq already have a savior but unfortunately for Mr. Hayes it’s Muhammed, not Jesus.
If we can’t keep Muslims from killing each other over there, I don’t think that trying to make them all Christian is going to be any easier.
With this kind of talk Hayes just plays into the hands of Al-Qaeda by confirming what their leaders have always been saying: those American soldiers are just modern Crusaders. He is thereby strengthening the beliefs of terrorists that want to kill every American soldier they come across.
I am beginning to think that if someone is religious whackjob they should be hospitalized. it seems that they are all crazy
Patrick 4/4 @ 144
of course ’snap’ ..that’s it! ..standards, that’s what I’ve been lacking.
I guess I’ve been assuming the wrong impression when hearing of a fondness for the cascading style sheets….I’m shamed by my preconceived bias.
Valley Girl @
135
Transmorgrify?
Perchance, a Calvin & Hobbes fan?
rumi @ 151
We have cascaded stylishly to a new thread.
Patrick 4/4 @ 147
I read the NYTimes book review writeup from a couple weeks back, and plan on using this one to cure a case of the blues next year…his quote on Puritan attitudes was included in the review and my head all of the sudden felt light and floaty.
Like Hunter Thompson, Gore Vidal is a writer I’ll always have around, a collection of essays to grab on the go, like on the way to the doctor’s office or anyplace where I have to wait in line…gotta love his wordsmithing…I just wrote this in his honor:
(regarding the evil Hilary Koprowski)
Something tells me Vidal never reads blogs, but he’s reading Firedoglake at this very moment, only not this thread. And with that in mind, I will be borrowing his new one from the library rather than springing for the hardcover.
deadissue at 153: I won’t tell him.
dlake @ 149
It is much better for them if you simply snuff them out right then and there, as the reward of abstinance in heaven is something they’d been waiting for anyway.
Patrick 4/4 @ 154
Ah, it won’t be the first time he’s been unaware of my presence and I take it as an insult demanding a childish response…and I cringe at the reality that it certainly will not be the last either.
That man has been pissing in my cheerios for quite some time now, yet I cannot stop reading.
Obviously, this story isn’t true. There is no age requirement for abstinence, though in this day and age abstinence (and blood testing) might be a good idea.
The better question is: Why is self-control so abhorrent to, and ridiculed by, liberals?
Lack of morality have much to do with it?
Valley Girl @
143
I had no idea he was a cross-dresser!
octopibingo @ 157
Obviously, you are abstaining…
Jacqrat @
159
We can only hope you are right, Jacqrat.
octopibingo @
157
I have remarkable self-control. It helps if I think of nuns playing baseball. What is it that you do?
Siun @ 146
I got back to Buenos Aires late last night. I let my travel agent talk me into staying at the fanciest hotel in town for my last few days– the Park Hiatt. Thirty minutes after checking in I knew I had made a mistake. The place is crawling with the worst kinds of Republicans you can imagine. I ran to the hotel next door (where I had stayed for a few days before Tierra del Fuego) and I’m moving back in there today. The Park Hiatt does everything possible to make the guests feel they never left the U.S. I’m sure plenty of Republicans love that and are willing to pay excessive rates for the psychological security of it. Yecchhhh… and Colorado-guy Siun refered to isn’t half as bad as the people I’m meeting at this place! Lookin’ forward to coming home next week!
Others Have it Thrust Upon Them*
it should be thrust into them.
octopibingo @
157
Lack of an interest in other people’s business is more like it. The school can teach the child how to understand the world around them, and sex is part of that world.
Turning back the hands of time for the sake of claiming some bullshit perch atop the “moral highground” is typical Republican behavior, but in this case it’s at the expense of public health.
Why do you spew bigotry against Christians but whine when people do the same against Muslims?
Just curious.
Nice try at the verbal framing, but it’s not self control we oppose, but control by other people.
Self control is when you have sex because you think it’s a good idea. Or when you don’t because you think it’s a bad idea. Perhaps we both agree, self control is a goal to be esteemed and sought.
But abstaining because somebody else says so is, I think, evil. As is having sex because somebody else says so.
It’s all in the locus of moral authority. Within as revealed by reason or the divine within, or without as revealed by said whack-jobs.
Perhaps we could agree that a little humility about one’s own choices and their applicability on a global scale would be a good thing too?
I know, I shouldn’t feed the trolls, but the frame job was too objectionable to resist. No self-control I guess