
Wednesday's Iraq news pretends that is is not about Iraq. As Christy posted earlier, the President yesterday told reporters that he has asked Secretary of Defense Gates to develop proposals for increasing the size of the Army and Marines to relieve the "stress" (Bush said he hasn't heard the word "breaking") our current armed forces are under and to provide sufficient forces for the long ideological war on terror. The increase could be on the order of 70,000 troops added to currently authorized levels for the Army of 512,000 and about 180,000 Marines. Recall that Congress approved increases to get us to these levels shortly after 9/11.
The New York Times reports the story just as the White House would want it: there is no explicit connection to the numerous statements from General Abizaid and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Former Secretary (and General) Colin Powell and other retired generals that it is Iraq that is breaking the Army and creating the stress. The Washington Post gets the story a little better here. But neither story makes a more important connection.
The disconnect occurs because both articles recognize that a decision today to increase overall US troop levels would require a number of years to implement, with estimates that only about 6,000 to 7,000 troops could be added each year. So this has nothing to do with all the talk of "surging" 20,000 to 30,000 (or McCain's 50,000) more troops quickly into Iraq, right? As Powell explained on Sunday's Face the Nation, any near-term surge could only come from delaying the rotation of troops currently in Iraq and speeding up the planned rotation of troops already scheduled to go to Iraq. That surge could only be sustained beyond a few months (less than a Friedman Unit) if the President required more National Guard and Reserves to reenter Iraq for 2nd and 3rd tours.
But the proposals to increase overall troop strength for the President's long term "war against terror" are very much connected to the plausibility of an immediate surge into Iraq. All you need is time and perspective. If the US had increased its overal troop levels two years ago, then today we'd have enough troops to "surge" into Iraq today. The fact that we didn't do so in 2004 leaves the nation's most senior and respected military officers forcefully and publically telling their Commander in Chief that they cannot accommodate the neocon's proposed surge without possibly breaking the Army. That telling argument resonates with the media and with the American people; it is likely the single most powerful check on the President's options for what he can do in Iraq. But suppose that check were not there?
Let's ask who has been advocating an increased level for the Army and Marines. We don't even need to check the neocons, because Jon Stewart already did that (h/t C&L). Senators McCain and Lieberman have long argued for the need to expand our armed forces for reasons similar to those the President used yesterday. They repeated that view while recently in Iraq. As for other Democrats, consider this, from the same Post and NYT articles, respectively:
Democrats have been calling for additional troops for years. Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) proposed an increase of 40,000 troops during his 2004 campaign against Bush, only to be dismissed by the administration. . . .
Democrats pounced on Bush's comments. "I am glad he has realized the need for increasing the size of the armed forces . . . but this is where the Democrats have been for two years," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), the new House Democratic Caucus chairman. Kerry issued a statement calling Bush's move a "pragmatic step needed to deal with the warnings of a broken military," but he noted that he opposes increasing troops in Iraq. Even before news of Bush's interview, Rep. Ike Skelton (D-Mo.), incoming chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, told reporters that the military is "bleeding" and "we have to apply the tourniquet and strengthen the forces."
And there's more:
Senator Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said Tuesday night: “I am pleased President Bush has finally recognized the need to increase the overall size of our military. I have been calling for such an expansion for several years.” But Mr. Reed, who served in the 82nd Airborne Division, warned that the battle over troop numbers was not over.
“Now that the president is asking for an increase, he needs to follow through and put the money in the budget to pay for these soldiers,” Mr. Reed said.
I suspect we can find lots of similar statements in support of increasing our overall troop levels from other prominent Democrats, including a few likely to run for President in 2008. If the President had just listened to these prominent Democrats back then, we would now have enough troops to surge into Iraq, and we wouldn't be hearing complaints from the nation's top military that doing that would break the Army or place undue burdens on the National Guard and Reserves. The President would then be free to pursue this option with much less opposition from the nation's military leaders. Why, with a large enough armed forces, we could even put a half million troops into Iraq, just as we did in Viet Nam.
If that were the case, we would be left with the remaining argument our military leaders are making against the neocon plans: no one has stated a clear, finite, and achievable military mission for the extra troops the neocons want to surge into Iraq. But the lack of a defensible mission has never stopped this Administration in the past. And it's unlikely to encourage the Democrats to ask the same question. How do I know? Because none of these Democrats has put forth a "clear, finite, and achievable mission" for the overall increased troop levels.
What we are left with is the implicit argument that if we're going to give a reckless President 150,000 troops to squander in a war we should have never fought in the first place, we're going to need more troops to fight whatever "legitimate wars" (also undefined) we face in the future. In other words, the principal argument for increasing the size of our armed forces has nothing to do with any coherent plan to deal with terrorism but instead presupposes we will always have a reckless President willing to get 150,000 or so of our best troops bogged down in some bloody, endless quagmire, and we just need to plan for that terrible waste. And these are the people who are regarded as "serious foreign policy experts."
Of course, George Bush and his even more reckless Vice President will be gone in January, 2009. But doesn't the same argument apply to President John McCain? Or President Hillary Clinton, who still will not say that her Iraq war vote was a mistake?
I do not understand why those who regard themselves as the nation's "serious foreign policy experts" think it makes sense to increase the size and lethality of our Army, and then hand the Army over to presidents who have proven to be dishonest and reckless about what they'll do with those troops, and then do what they please, without any accountability, without checks and without a clear strategy even remotely connected to America's strategic interests.
If you saw a child recklessly firing a loaded weapon, would you hand it more bullets? Or would you disarm the child? Be careful what you ask for . . .
(photo courtesy yellowcakewalk.net)
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scarecrow!
I so admire you; now back to read and learn!
Sidney Blumenthal on the “surge” pushers.
http://tinyurl.com/ylq6gu
The author of this plan is Frederick W. Kagan, a neoconservative at the AEI and the author of a new book, “Finding the Target: The Transformation of American Military Policy,” …Danielle Pletka, a former aide to Sen. Jesse Helms; Michael Rubin, an aide to the catastrophic Coalition Provisional Authority; and retired Maj. Gen. Jack Keane, the former deputy Army chief of staff.
This rump group of neocons is the battered remnant left of the phalanx that once conjured up grandiose visions of conquest and blowtorched ideological ground for Bush. Although neocons are still entrenched in the Vice President’s Office and on the National Security Council, they mostly feel that their perfect ideas have been the victims of imperfect execution. Rather than accepting any responsibility for the ideas themselves, they blame Rumsfeld and Bush. Meyrav Wurmser, a research fellow at the neoconservative Hudson Institute, whose husband, David Wurmser, is a Middle East advisor on Dick Cheney’s staff, recently vented the neocons’ despair to an Israeli news outlet: “This administration is in its twilight days. Everyone is now looking for work, looking to make money … We all feel beaten after the past five years.” But they are not so crushed that they cannot summon one last ragged Team B to provide a manifesto for a cornered president.
Not one more penny.
We lost and thousands– thousands– have suffered because of PNAC et al.
Never, ever, again.
Nice job Scarecrow, you definitely earned your promotion. I hate these fucking people.
Wow.
Scarborough’s show — the guests are calling Bush, flat-out “delusional” and “out of touch with reality” and people saying, “this is scary” and “this gives me the heebie-jeebies.”
My goodness. Fancy that — some truth on Scarborough’s show.
Mike Barnicle just said, “a commander that needs to be relieved of his command…”
Great post… the picture and the last paragraph sum it up beautifully.
Scarecrow –
Sorry to jump in with an off-topic comment –
but, come to think of it, it’s not really off-topic.
I think it’s a good thing that we now have people uttering the bald reality on the teevee.
What does this portend?
Good evening folks. Thanks to Jane for finding that perfect photo of a Bushman playing with toy soldiers.
Mrs. K8 @ 5
Yes, and spread the word.
Somehow I am unable to disabuse my mind of the idea we’re going to carry this madness to Iran.
Tony Blair claimed yesterday that Iran poses a “strategic challenge” to moderate Middle East governments and the west as a whole…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 9
that comes after Santytorum and Olmert and others including A. Lieberman proclaimed the very same thing.
happy Holidays and ptooey, too!
scarecrow @
8
I thought you’d like that one, scarecrow ;)
I strongly advocate we replace the fresh faced young marines guarding the W.H. with marines that have done 3 or 4 tours in Iraq. It might give Bush something to think about.
are those tiddlywinks in the picture or toy soldiers?
i b’lieve they are just the same to bushco and their backwash.
angie @ 10
The dots appear to be collecting on the page to connect.
Scarecrow –
I really do wonder what it means that one of these cable news sausage factories is willing to have folks on the teevee going on and on about how Bush is, essentially, insane. Words were not minced.
It’s not that I have a problem with the message — it is the bald-faced truth.
I just wonder what it MEANS when one of the biggies consents to that true message going out over the air-waves.
Personally? For now, I’m going to buckle my seat. I fear this means it could be a bumpy ride ahead.
Mrs. K8 @ 7
Who knows. I’ve been predicting things for months that didn’t come to pass. Here’s my latest wrongness: I see the MSNBC evening shows as at the edge of the MSM wrt to their willingness to challenge the President’s fitness for office. (The NYT editorial page has been there for a year.) But if the perception spreads to further into the MSM, then it’s hard to see how the Republicans can allow Bush to remain in office. So I just keep bringing up the issue that I believe is staring the country in the face. What are we going to do with these people?
I think it’s interesting that virtually no one has mentioned impeachment on the MSM since they interviewed Pelosi, who said it was off the table. So people stopped talking about it. But the last month of Iraq news has been devastating.
My bellweather is Pachacutec. When he gets beyond just pledging disallegiance (”he’s not my President”) and starts calling for active efforts to remove this cabal from office, the walls will shake and begin to crumble. ;)
angie @
10
angie – is it the “ptooeytary” gland that assists with venting one’s spleen? *g*
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 17
yes.
I should be quicker right now, but my outrage is preventing me!
and a big LOL to you dear Stephen.
Scarecrow –
I wonder if the 25th amendment might come into play at some point.
But then there’s another messy job staring us in the face (or maybe I should say SHOOTING us in the face) — how to sidestep Cheney.
Scarecrow, you are great! I love to read your posts, and will go back and read the latest in a minute, but (and I’m sorry to go off topic here) someone mentioned “Thanks, Murray Waas” this morning and it got me to thinking of him. I checked his blog, and nothing’s been posted since 10/28/2006, so I was wondering what’s going on with him. I see nothing recent of his in the National Journal. Is he writing a book? Is he sick again? Anyone know?
Ann –
That’s a VERY good question. I really really really hope and pray that Murray’s not silent because of illness.
He’s one of the extra-special good folks, fully earning the title of (investigative) journalist.
It’s a bit disconcerting not seeing the Democrats really responding to all this very recent Bush business on increasing troops in the Middle East. Oh I see a bit of fight from the Dems here and there, but is it enough?
Mrs. K8 @ 19
I think everyone agrees that both the P and VP have to go in the carefully arranged concerted action. Even I would oppose putting Cheney into the oval office for even a second. But for now, I’m less concerned about the mechanisms that what needs to be done to create the climate.
From the picture
And he’s also,
Ala chingada, Cabron es poquito mierda (Oh fuck, that fucker is a little shit) and
pinche huey pendejo (fucking stupid asshole)
Just editorializing, En Es Ay guys (say it out loud) – I don’t mean anything
Why are we not in Darfur?
this is such outrageous bullshit – increase the size of the military. The military is WAY, WAY over bloated as it is. Whenever is there ever going to be a limit when enough is enough?
The military already is many times greater than what is needed for actual defense. This is purely for adventurism and more bullshit political one-upmanship with no basis in realty. Democrats should be ashamed of themselves for playing this sinister immature insane game of ruination.
The lost opportunity from the military we already have is obscene.
And why would democrats legitimize the bushliar-criminal regime’s illegal, unnecessary wars by calling for a bigger military. How stupid can they be. the cult of republicanism just moved the goal posts on them again and they fell for it again.
.
AP – The Pentagon wants the White House to seek an additional $99.7 billion to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to information provided to The Associated Press.
Ann in AZ @
20
Murray’s great, I talked to him earlier in the week. He’s very excited, getting ready for the Libby trial.
Jane –
Thanks for the good news about Murray!
since Murray Waas has been mentioned, I’ll re-post this from this morning:
punaise @
102
A while back, I did a post on Are Penguins Liberals, and one of the links was to a story about how the National Science Teachers Association had declined to accept copies of An Inconvenient Truth, under pressure from the folks who sell you gasoline (Exxon). C&R has a link to a new story that says an organization connected with Syriana is going to distribute copies of the film free to teachers.
‘I have no future’ — Jeb Bush tells reporters today.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..ush_jeb_dc
punaise –
Thanks for the link to the interesting piece at TLC about a potential impending hatchet job directed at Murray Waas.
I don’t know anything about who’s behind the Washington City Paper, do you? Does anyone else?
I would dearly love to know who it is that’s really behind any effort to knee-cap Murray.
[I suppose I could go off on a google research spree, but Mr. K8 just got in and I have to go do other stuff now — if anybody here just happens to know more about dark doings aimed at Murray, please chime in. Thanks!]
I agree with Jim Miclachevski (sp?) on NBC tonight – the agreement to “surge” is based on a swap for the larger force overall. Everybody gets what they want: W gets his futile surge, the Joint Chiefs get their expanded force projection, the Democrats have to shut up, and Abizaid gets to tell all when he retires in March.
By the way, where’s TSF OptionFour in this great national debate we’re having? Is it just me and the little fella from Ohio? We’re saying:
Troops
Home
NOW
Vote on a larger military, at NBC’s website, here. It’s 53% yes right now…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 32
He can narrate the documentary about how his moronic brother Fredo ruined the family name and the nation in 8 short years.
-GSD
scarecrow @ 31
Thank you, scarecrow, for that bit of good news.
When the first story hit about the evil Exxon, that was my first thought — wouldn’t it be wonderful if someone were to jump in and give teachers access to this material? And now someone has. Great!
And SHAME ON THE NSTA!!!
scarecrow, is it okay to go totally and frivolously OT for a moment?
Valley Girl @ 37
Totally, frivolously, and insanely.
Looks like the Iraqi troop training is going great…..The Iraqis will do well in battle as long as they are fighting rabbits and frogs.
Sorry for the Newshacks link.
-GSD
Oklahoma kiddo @ 32
Well, maybe at least one member of the clan has retained some grip on reality.
scarecrow @ 38
Now we’re all curious … out with it!
Jane, you there?
Did you get an email from Larisa? If not, check this out.
Wish I’d caught the previous post with this because it deserves attention.
AirportCat @ 41
Hope she doesn’t think I”m the Vice Principal. No one needs my permission to do/say anything. And who would listen anyway?
There will be a “Surge”. The delusional Bubble Boy probably hears the voice of “God” (pick your deity) telling “You will win; You will have Victory; You will show them all!” Its a damn shame… all these kids… gone… Even our military leaders can’t get through to this fool.
Army Gen. John P. Abizaid, the top U.S. Middle East commander and a chief architect of U.S. strategy in Iraq since the war began, will leave his post early next year, according to a statement by his command released this morning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00463.html
Grade the war mongering chimp.
People no likey Chimpy.
-GSD
little temblor just now here
Thanks- I’m still thinking on the fairies thread, and watched the YouTube from the “Blog Wars” several times. You know what, I’m wondering if Jane is a “lefty”- watching her pointing finger and all. (”Lefty” here). Jane? Inquiring lefties want to know!
Also tried to see if there were any other YouTubes from the film. Sorry if this has been posted alread. Pretty funny. “you know what’s amazing to me about people-powered politics and people- powered media is that nobody’s qualified to do what their doing”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzqV_Rm83MA
It seems to me that what we need is a more effective & focused military. No more Aircraft Carriers and nuclear submarines. Except that more boots on the ground doesn’t bring job’s to one’s district or present the same opportunity for no bids.
OK, can we cut the crap and start pulling the rugs out from under the Democratic wing of the WAR Party? If the so-called progressive bloggers actually have any cojones, IT’S PAST TIME TO GET IT ON! No funding for War, which means no funding for military fantasies of ANY KIND. I’ve sent just short of nasty emails to Pelosi and Reid AGAIN. Anyone care to join in?
Valley Girl — CT Bob had a showing of Blog Wars this week, but I couldn’t make it. Do you know when it will be available?
scarecrow – Almost got my feathers in a ruffle through the first half of the post but, once again, your conclusion is spot on.
I don’t want additional troops in our armed forces for Iraq or any other conflict.
We need as many of our young minds as posssible working towards energy independence and a strong peaceful society in the future. The time of massive defense spending in dollars and manpower must end. We dont need 1.5 to 2 million soldiers on countless bases all over the globe and countless others in intel, corporate militia etc. Lets dramatically decrease the government and corporate death machine. It’s killing way to many people and the very soul of our Democracy.
It’s at least twenty neocon years past time for peace.
KimGW
i am with you.
FDL and the” progressive bloggers” deserve nothing but praise, imho!
GSD–I gave him an “A” for party leadership. I hope his leadership of the Rs puts them deeper into the ditch than ever. I think he’s been a magnificent destroyer of Republicans, as if they need any help.
If you want to really piss of a Fundagelical warmongering winger, e-mail them this list of 10 greatest Muslim inventions.
Links to the old Russian/communist news organ Pravda.
-GSD
GSD @ 39
New Iraqi Army slogan “Geek Strong” ??
TeddySanFran @ 46
You okay? Tell me more.
3.8 quake in Berkeley at 7:12pm CA time.
Link
all well, just an East Coast boy panicking at the oddity of it all!
So, here’s a question I see about the size of the military. And, I really don’t know to sort this out, terms of next steps. But, it seems that as long as “civilian contractors” are allowed to do the jobs that the military has done in the past, we really don’t have a valid measure of actual military/ pseudo military presence. So, even if we keep the military small (which I would favor) there’s still a huge pseudo force = misundercounted mercenaries available. Any way of closing this loophole?
Thanks Suzanne. You didn’t feel it did ya?
Suzanne @ 57
3.8? I’ve sneezed harder than that. Don’t worry, little ones like that are good, they relieve stress on the faults … better to let them go a little at a time than in one big rip.
felt a moderate jolt here
3.8 is fun!
Oh, then there’s the lute and bagpipes and all the other stoff, GSD @ 54– math and astronomy, too.
amazing that “our” world is dissing and throwing this away.
Thanks, Jane, for the update on Murray, and for the additional info, which I will have to go back and read later. (I have such a hard time keeping up.) I got alarmed when I realized he hasn’t had anything published that I could find post election.
My question is: aren’t the requested additional forces just replacements for those killed and seriously injured in Iraq already? And why aren’t we doing something about Darfur? I’m not especially fond of the idea of making our potential enemies more powerful while our military disintegrates before our eyes, but I, too, believe Bush will just waste more and more troops. Plus, Jr. has already busted any possible budget, and is already running the largest deficits ever, so where are we to get the money to support more troops (while our fearless leader tells us to go shopping, no less?) So, if cities can go bankrupt, can countries go bankrupt???
The only solution is for the military to step in and remove this Bush/Cheney cabal. The rest is dithering and blather.
Fiore: Winning through Losing
Eureka Springs, AR @
63
It has a great beat and you can dance to it.
A blast from the past, worth revisiting:
Source: Lew Rockwell, dd. 06-MAR-2003
While I agree we need to spend more in the interim to fix what’s broken and get our troops home safely, I think we are well past time to discuss whether we are getting the bang we need out of the bucks we are spending on a military that is bigger than the next 28 countries COMBINED.
You’d think that with this level of spending, we’d be safer and more secure, right?
But we’re actually worse off, and we’re spending more now than Lew Rockwell cites in this article that preceded the initial Shock-and-Awe in Iraq by less than two weeks.
Not only are we talking about expanding military spending, but security at U.S. Ports is still worthless. Bush is spending money on illegal chemical weapons development, while pissing away money on anthrax vaccine development by a firm with highly questionable financing and management.
Something is SERIOUSLY WRONG here; we’ve let deranged monkeys run amok with the checkbook for far too long, and haven’t bothered to take away the pen or even find out what they’ve been doing with the checks.
OT – Bush signs massive tax and trade bill
_Extend through the end of next year a deduction for research and development initiatives.
_Renew a deduction of up to $4,000 for higher education costs.
_Give tax breaks for teachers who pay for supplies out of their own pockets.
_Let taxpayers deduct state and local sales taxes instead of state and local income taxes, a provision that primarily benefits those in states with no income taxes.
_Open up 8.3 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico to oil and gas drilling, and offer a dozen credits promoting alternative and efficient uses of energy.
_Prevent a 5 percent cut in Medicare payments to doctors from taking effect on Jan. 1.
_Renew, with increased federal contributions, a program to help clean up abandoned coal mines and provide health care for miners who worked for companies that have gone out of business.
_Permanently normalize trade with Vietnam and extend trade benefits for four Andean nations, sub-Saharan African countries and Haiti.
-haven’t had time to keep up today so sorry if previously posted.
Suzanne @
57
“But did thee feel the earth move?”
We have 7012 miles of border with Canada and Mexico. We could line up the troops in Iraq at more than twenty per mile on all of our border land and still fire all militia.
Lou Dobbs would love that.
Rayne — those are staggering numbers. I remember Nixon bemoaning his fear that the US would become a “pitiful helpless giant.”
I have another problem I might as well air here. It seems to me that the Iraqis are already killing each other just fine without our training and the arms we are expected to provide, so why do we need to train them? And can anyone remember the last time we provided arms to any country that the country we provided them to hasn’t turned them against us?
Ann in AZ @ 74
There was a summary of Iraq statistics in the NYT today, on casualties, electricity productions, etc. I found it interesting that the number of “insurgents” had remained about the same for the last three years. But the number of armed Shia militia had gone from 10,000 to over 50,000. And somehow, they don’t seem to be suffering from a lack of training, and we don’t hear about them having command problems, or poor logistics, etc.
Ann in AZ @ 74
Uh … the Lend-Lease program right before we got into WW2? (We gave stuff to the Brits … I don’t think they used it on us.)
scarecrow (73) — yeah, those numbers kind of suck the wind out of you.
Especially when you consider these two more things:
1) After six years under the Bush Administration, the FDA has had difficulty tracing the source of contamination after two separate events (first, spinach contaminated with E. coli, and second, Taco Bell food that may have been contaminated by either scallions or lettuce);
2) No EU detectors caught the Polonium 210 until AFTER the poisoning of Litvinenko.
Assuming we don’t have radiation detection capabilities any better than the next 28 countries, would we be able to trace the origin nuclear contamination of food in this country, in spite of all our military spending?
The Brits aren’t having any luck, you’ll note.
Scares the bejabbers out of me, since the Brits seem a bit more professional and put-together than this bailing-wire-and-chewing-gum-cronied system we have here in the U.S.
While I’m a strong supporter of Wes Clark and would like to see Al Gore get into the hunt, I have to say that Hillary said the other day that if she knew then what we know now she wouldn’t have voted as she did. A half-way repudiation of her vote authorizing military force, but a repudiation nonetheless.
If the President had just listened to these prominent Democrats back then, we would now have enough troops to surge into Iraq, and we wouldn’t be hearing complaints from the nation’s top military that doing that would break the Army or place undue burdens on the National Guard and Reserves. The President would then be free to pursue this option with much less opposition from the nation’s military leaders. Why, with a large enough armed forces, we could even put a half million troops into Iraq, just as we did in Viet Nam.
First off, it’s not at all clear that this was possible. There may not be enough volunteers for an army of 500,000 engaged in an extended occupation.
Second, if that had been proposed, the war would never have happened. The time it would have taken to train and arm such a force would have given the inspectors enough time to demonstrate that there were, in fact, no WMD.
Third, admitting that this was the scope of the operation would have made it much more difficult to sell to voters. An honest presentation of a plan that might have been effective (I don’t know that there was one; this ethnic conflict has been tamped down with brute force for quite some time) would have entailed a period of martial law, with some really ruthless rules of engagement, and then a decade or two of building a system of governance. You can’t topple a Stalinist government that runs on its security apparatus and not much else, and expect to have people ready to take control of their political lives in any less than a decade’s time.
The reason they went in with an inadequate force was because that’s the only way to the operation could proceed. As Tristero has noted over at Digby’s place, they were rolling the dice on a very low probability outcome.
D’ya think the Chimperor has OCD? Well then here’s the cure:
Hey Chimpy, you can finally stop sucking on the PR popsicle and stop listening to those so-called advisors…
Shrooms for a better reality — really!
A lotta newly unemployed folks in DC might consider volunteering for this study. Remember what the doormouse said…
jayackroyd — I agree with some of your reasoning, but I don’t sync with the final summary.
Re-read the Waxman letter about declassification (see Christy’s earlier post today).
And then tell me if the real issue wasn’t that the Bush/Cheney’04 campaign didn’t really want to be in and about done with Iraq by November of 2004…so they went to war with the military they had, not the military they wanted.
Political expediency. That’s the real reason.
Patrick 4/4 @
71
Patrick–Have you ever been in Havana?
Brian Boru @ 78
I saw that interview, and after several attempts by the interviewer to give Hillary an opportunity to say it was a mistake, she repeated her usual line that if the facts had been known then, the vote would not have happened and then she added something like “and I wouldn’t have voted for it.” So the context made it unclear. If she had wanted to be clearer, what was stopping her?
But another point is, why did she trust the Bush Administration to tell the truth. Dean wasn’t fooled and neither were many others.
AirportCat @ 76
Boy, that’s going back some. Guess I rest my case.
late nite thread
Ann in AZ @ 74
In addition to England; Nicaragua and Israel haven’t yet…what is left of Afghanistan and Iraq didn’t turn their weapons against us until we bombed the crap out of them. I’m sure there are many more…
Brian Boru — I agree with scarecrow’s analysis.
Why this long — from October of 2002 until now?
It’s not as if the Downing Street Memo and Joe Wilson’s “What I didn’t find in Africa” haven’t been kicking around for nearly 3 years on their own merits, or that Doug Feith threw in the towel on WMD a couple of years ago now.
It’s too little, too late, and for political expediency.
As I mentioned in my previous comment, a war was started for political expediency.
bg @ 82
Someday, maybe.
That picture you printed of the guy with the w mask playing soldiers is just a riot.
I’ ve said all along that there’s no way Hillary can win dem primaries; I just wanted to put on record that she has backed off a bit cheerleading the invasion.
The Serious Foreign Policy Expertsm may seriously entertain the idea that Bush has ideas. For the rest of us, it’s more like this: The big “Special Report” graphic breaks into the Today show with its blaring, excited fanfare and I wonder, “Oh shit, what now?” But it’s just a Bush “news” conference, and with it, the unbearable lightness of listening to the Deluded Decider stumble along and do the same old same old one more time. The Unbearable Lightness of Listening to Bush. Not winning, not losing, gonna hang in there, more troops, wouldn’t be there if we couldn’t succeed. Nothing new and I drive off to work, scanning the radio stations for the news conference. Can’t find it. That figures. Must not be important.
I concur, Rayne @ 77:
I have to say, I sense that the U.S. Armed Forces have developed a gigantic and vulnerable underbelly as a result of ‘going long and going deep’ to increasingly rely, with heedless abandon, on ultra-high-tech unsustainable military components.
One example of a similar sort of underbelly is the sabotage that is ongoing right now in Iraq of the high-tension towers that hold the lines that carry the most electricity into Baghdad. Dumb, low-tech bombs take out those towers and create major disruption and misery as a result. That’s the kind of low-tech assault that our military and of course “our” Congress, in their hubris, never seem to take into account when they’re no-bidding, or cost-plussing, the latest, greatest ‘cutting edge technology’ military procurement contract. In any actual conflict with an at least semi-competent opponent, watch out for the fuel-inefficient, top-heavy, delicately-balanced high-tech, and high-priced, components of the modern American Army, Navy, and Air Force.
We’re ‘all or nothing’ anymore, it seems, or maybe ‘nuclear or nothing’ as the slaughter in Iraq is in danger of proving. Our nuclear deterrent still seems to work, but everything underneath that has some major vulnerabilities that George W. Bush’s war of choice in Iraq is starting to reveal to the world (if not to “our” Members of Congress). Not good bang for the buck, nor wise cost/benefit choices for the citizens of the United States.
Addendum: Sidney Blumenthal just seems to keep on honing the fine edge on that wordsmithing ‘knife’ of his. Bravo, Sidney (re Thrasyboulos @ #2).
After watching him these many years… I believe George W Bush is a liar. I never really believed a word when he expressed any concern for the troops. I’ve never understood why anyone ever has or still does, for that matter. It would be a giant leap for me to believe that the “breaking” of the US military was, is or ever would be a factor in Bush’s decision-making process.
My daughter lives in Berkeley on alluvial soil. Right on University Ave. Hate these quakes. Now I want her to come to Sacramento to be safe. (Bored and safe)
pow wow (92) — I wish I could get a handle on the single thread that unites the inability to deal with sabotage you’ve described, and the 2003 looting of al QaaQaa. They’re surely related; all that RDX and MDX, stolen from under our noses, under IAEA seal but left unguarded, now used against our troops in IED’s and probably even in those low-tech bombs you described. The thefts took place in full view of satellites – yet nothing ever happened.
And now, systemic, chronic sabotage.
Rumsfeld should have been terminated from his post so many damned times; I can’t help but wonder if he’d dealt immediately with al QaaQaa whether much of the problems we’ve faced in Iraq would have been nipped in the bud.
Brian Boru @ 90
Any damn idiot Senator knew that even if Saddam had WMD, he was still not an imminent threat to the US, and thus the war was not just. Hillary, like all political snakes knew this. She and the other Dems who voted for the war did so because they were afraid that the overthrow would somehow be a success and they wanted to be included in the winners. That is the fact; they voted not with their convictions or what they knew to be morally correct, but for the possible political upside. Period. If the war went badly, hey, they knew more of the blame would be on the Administration, and they could live with that.
How the fuck sick is that? But that is what it is.
Don’t be so sure. These criminals are capable of anything.
Scarecrow, after a good job delineating the surge from the overall troop increase in the first part, you conflated them near the end.
‘no one has stated a clear, finite, and achievable military mission for the extra troops the neocons want to surge into Iraq. But the lack of a defensible mission has never stopped this Administration in the past. And it’s unlikely to encourage the Democrats to ask the same question. How do I know? Because none of these Democrats has put forth a “clear, finite, and achievable mission” for the overall increased troop levels.’
We are at war, and too few are being forced to carry that load. The national guard has no business there. The surge is typically stupid of our foolish prez, but that doesn’t mean we don’t need a larger military now.
I’m as concerned as you are about feeding another of his idiotic escapades (Iran), but it also bothers me that we’re powerless to help in Darfur, as we did in Kosovo, as we should have done in Rwanda, as we thought we had in Afghanistan. Troops in reserve don’t need their mission clearly defined until they get one.
We’re already spending $540 billion a year on the military, and it is not clear that conventional military force is the best response to terrorism. Rather than enlarging the military, why not re-configure it to make it a more appropriate tool?
RudyTahuti — Scarecrow, after a good job delineating the surge from the overall troop increase in the first part, you conflated them near the end.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The argument I hear being made is that we shouldn’t do the immediate surge, because there’s no defensible rationale for what those troops would do during the surge. But then the experts agree we need more troops overall, to increase the size of the military. My point is that these experts also fail to articulate a defensible rationale for that increase too. They’re getting a free pass. But when you probe the responses, it seems that the implicit rationale is that we have to account for the 150,000 troops that are bogged down in Iraq. I’m sugesting we need to address the latter problem, because it will lead to cures for the former, without just expanding the size of the military (and giving future presidents more “toys” to play with.
I do not believe that America’s leadership has a clear idea of how American needs to be using its armed forces. We have militarist views, imperialist views, anti-terrorism views, protect the oil views, and so on. Which, if any of these, is legitimate? Until we have a decent debate about what our military is for, I think it’s mindless to enlarge it, particularly when we have so little faith in the kinds of people who either are President or seem to want to be President but who will want to play Commander in Chief.
I’m glad Hil hasn’t eaten her enabling vote yet.
By waiting, and hedging her bets, instead of providing some real leadership, when she DOES sits down to scarf it, it will be seen as all that more politically expedient, and Kucinich, for example, can scathingly welcome her “aboard”.
Bush is growing more and more delusional about Iraq. I suppose God is telling him to send more troops in, despite the fact that the generals are telling him it’s too late. If he had done it years ago, it could’ve worked, but now it is too late and the increase would be too small to make a difference.
Scarecrow, thanks for expounding. I think we agree that the best solution is to leave Iraq. We can’t stop the blood bath we’ve catalyzed, so we should withdraw now, while an orderly retreat is still possible, and accept the consequences of his callow, insipid hubris. Those will only grow worse with time. Of course, he won’t do that.
Have a super solstice.
Right on, Scarecrow:
All that talk about ‘we have to be right 100% of the time, and they only have to be right once’ – or words to that effect – in reference to the terrorist threat, really just points up a glaring, and hopeless, cost/benefit imbalance from using a military approach to self-defense from terrorist attacks and sabotage, compared to the effort required to succeed in such terrorist sabotage. In other words, no one can or will “win” with such “perfection” odds against them in the struggle against terrorism.
I think the right way to look at this is to consider the use of brute military force against terrorist tactics to be akin to “uparmoring” to an impenetrable level every home in the U.S. against the existing threat posed by house burglars, or akin to ‘targeting known pockets’ of burglars in inner-city slums with air power bombing runs… The cost vs. the benefit of such an approach is absurd on its face. Now obviously house burglary doesn’t compare to the potential threat from terrorism in our high-tech age. But nevertheless, the more high-tech our society is, the more impossible it is going to be to “uparmor” “100%” of our high-tech facilities against the remote chance of a major, successful terrorist attack on an individual facility. The costs – in resources and quality of life – will sink us long, long before the actual terrorists will. Yet that’s pretty much the trajectory this Congress and President now have us mindlessly pursuing, barring a change in course.
We need to stop, look, and listen. It’s way past time to do serious due diligence to study and understand the effectiveness (or not) of detective work, and police work, against the threat of terrorist attack, vs. the effectiveness (or not) of brute military force against the threat of terrorist attack. Obviously the financial benefits to the country’s taxpayers are massively in favor of police work. No society can sustain a full-blown ‘war of attrition’ that is so unbalanced in favor of the opponent: a massive and growing high-tech, energy-intensive, U.S. military on the one side, and a mobile, mostly very low-tech, no- or low-energy infrastructure, and often invisible terrorist on the other side.
What’s left is serious insurance-industry-style (but humane) weighing of the potential benefits in safety to citizens from various kinds (and costs) of different ‘uparmoring’ possibilities for our infrastructure. I’ve seen no evidence of any such serious scrutiny of the pros and cons of different “common defense” approaches being conducted by our federal representatives, as you wisely indicate desperately needs doing, Scarecrow.
Dru @ 86
Ann in AZ @ 74
In addition to England; Nicaragua and Israel haven’t yet…what is left of Afghanistan and Iraq didn’t turn their weapons against us until we bombed the crap out of them. I’m sure there are many more…
Israeli aircraft attacked the USS Liberty in 1967.