
(Al Askari Mosque, Samarra, Iraq, before and after the bombing of February, 2006)
Something that enabled the Bush administration to foist its illegal invasion of Iraq on the public and has deeply complicated its execution has been widespread ignorance on the part of Americans about the political, cultural, and religious history of the region and the true nature of the relationships between the main ethnic and religious groups on the ground.
Via Raw:
Former Ambassador to Croatia Peter Galbraith is claiming President George W. Bush was unaware that there were two major sects of Islam just two months before the President ordered troops to invade Iraq, RAW STORY has learned.
(snip)
A year after his “Axis of Evil” speech before the U.S. Congress, President Bush met with three Iraqi Americans, one of whom became postwar Iraq’s first representative to the United States. The three described what they thought would be the political situation after the fall of Saddam Hussein. During their conversation with the President, Galbraith claims, it became apparent to them that Bush was unfamiliar with the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites.
Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam--to which the President allegedly responded, “I thought the Iraqis were Muslims!”
I read that and snorted through my nose. But then I realized that if someone asked me to explain the difference between Sunni and Shiite Iraqis, I wouldn't be able to tell you much more. So, I enlisted the aid of up and coming young blogger Jebediah from the excellent blog Foreign Policy Watch to give us a primer on what our President was too busy riding his bike and clearing brush to learn before he launched his cataclysmic war.
From FP Watch:
The division dates back to the time after Muhammad's death in 632, in the area which is now known as Saudi Arabia, when the next leader of the Muslim nation had yet to be decided. One group of people (who would later become known as the "Shiites") believed that the ruler should be a member of the prophet's family, while another group (who would later be called the "Sunnis") believed that Muhammad’s successor should be chosen from amongst those who were most qualified. While Shiites desired the succession of Muhammad’s cousin “Ali” as the next leader, Sunnis opted for “Abu Bakr,” a close friend to the prophet. The Sunnis quickly prevailed and Abu Bakr was installed as Muhammad's successor.
To break it down and possibly over-simplify it, the Shiia follow the bloodline of Mohammed and the Sunnis follow the Qur'an and the Hadith, a sacred Muslim text that details the words and actions of the Prophet Mohammed. Conflicts arose from this disagreement between the two sects culminating in a bloody civil war in 656. Differences hardened and the religion formally split five years after the outbreak of the war.
Since the split, several religious differences have emerged between the two groups. Shiites, for example, have more of a formal religious hierarchy than Sunnis do. For Shiites, those who are descendants of the prophet are particularly important and are often looked to for spiritual and social guidance. For Iraq’s Shiite population, for example, the clerics Ayatollah Sistani and Muqtada al-Sadr are prominent, influential figures because of their positions as descendants of Muhammad. In the picture, you’ll notice that both Sistani (in the banner to the left) and Sadr (right) wear black turbans around their heads, a symbol that shows lineage to the prophet.
For Sunnis, on the other hand, there does not exist the same religious hierarchy. To them, elevating descendants of the prophet to positions of power is an incorrect interpretation of the will of God. Instead, they hold the Qur'an and the teachings of Muhammad to be the primary sources of information on Islam. Shiites and Sunnis also disagree somewhat in their interpretation of certain passages of the Qur'an and the Hadith (the words and actions of Muhammad) and they also differ in the manner in which they pray.
(snip)
Sunnis make up roughly 85% of the Muslim population in the world. In the Middle East, most countries have majority Sunni populations. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the Palestinian territories, Jordan, Turkey, and the Gulf states are all Sunni-dominated.
Shiites, on the other hand, maintain majorities in Iraq, Iran, Bahrain, and Lebanon. Iran, in particular, has a very large population of Shiites. Over 60 million, in fact,which is more than in any other country in the world. In the map to the right, you'll notice that the light green Sunni-dominated areas cover far more territory than the dark green Shia-dominated areas.
Professor Juan Cole of Informed Comment makes a very important point in this NPR interview from earlier this month. For most of the 19th and 20th centuries, Sunnis and Shiites have lived in Iraq largely free of conflict. It was our invasion of that country that inflamed the sectarian tensions and created an environment of chaos that has given birth to a Medieval bloodbath:
JC: The degree of rancor and hatred and sheer brutal violence that's going on in Iraq right now between Sunnis and Shiites is, I mean, I think you have to go back to the 1500's to find another period in which it was this bad.
NPR: So, it sounds like the political aspirations of different powers within the region are exacerbating these theological and cultural differences between people, as is often the case in ethnic violence.
JC: Yeah, I don't think that people in Iraq are ultimately fighting over Sunnism and Shiism very much, now. One prays with their hands at their side. Another prays with their hands folded in front. I don't think that people are killing each other over those kinds of minor differences. They're killing each other because these religious ideologies are being marshalled in a quest for power.
In short, political operators in Iraq are cynically manipulating the faithful in order to further their own ends, rather like the GOP turning to the Christian Right whenever it needs to swell its election numbers and fill its coffers. Some people may take exception to that characterization, but to my thinking it's a distinction of degree rather than intent.
PS I see a lot of pundits and politicians saying that Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq have been fighting for a millennium. We need better history than that. The Shiite tribes of the south probably only converted to Shiism in the past 200 years. And, Sunni-Shiite riots per se were rare in 20th century Iraq. Sunnis and Shiites cooperated in the 1920 rebellion against the British. If you read the newspapers in the 1950s and 1960s, you don't see anything about Sunni-Shiite riots. There were peasant/landlord struggles or communists versus Baathists. The kind of sectarian fighting we're seeing now in Iraq is new in its scale and ferocity, and it was the Americans who unleashed it.
See Brian Uhlrich's comments on this, linking to Issandr El Amrani re the New York Times op-ed by Lee Smith. Contrast to this better overview in NYT recently.
I remember a Peanuts cartoon in which Charlie Brown observed Lucy filling Schroeder's head with a bunch of nonsense. He observed that it would take the poor guy 12 years just to unlearn all the silly things Lucy had taught him. It is the same with Americans and the Neocons on the Middle East. (emphasis mine)
If we as bloggers, readers, and members of the public are going to push back against the gushing fountain of misinformation and ignorant rhetoric that spews forth from Pox News and The Glenn Beck Network, we owe it to ourselves to learn as much as we can about what's really going on. In my opinion, you can never be too rich or too well-informed.
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Raw, sects, & TRex!
TRex,
My queer hero.
I will be spotlighting this post.
But I could sure use a hit of snark. Got any extra laying around?
MERRYGREGIOUS, EVERYBODY!!
Fitz. And soon please God.
Now THAT gave me immense satisfaction.
I just clicked away from that moron Pat Robertson going off on a whine-fest about the Episcopal Church’s break up over gays…
And I switched to Brokeback Mountain on HBO-W.
Take that, you old, sad, sorry, useless f*ck. God have mercy on your hating, dried-up raisin of a soul, Robertson.
Rayne @ 6
Yay!! Less sanctimony! More hot man-sex!! Hooray!!
OMG, not more Bush crap!
Oh TRex, you’d make such a better leader of the free world…
At least you know the difference between Sunni and Sh’ia Islam!
Oh, and btw, hi everyone! : )
Excellent post. It is wonderful to spread the knowledge of history and other cultures. This information perfectly underscores why we should not have gone there in the first place, but more important that we need to leave.
We started the war but we don’t have to continue it with our presence.
Our government is so irresponsible.
Oh and FITZ!
This will go a long way to help parents talk with their kids about sects.
Sorry, TRex, I went OT. Damn, but that old bastard has always made me sick; he’s not right in the head, was always borderline and is now clearly over the edge. I stuck around to catch the opening of his program; he looks like he’s on death’s door, can’t follow cues well, acts like he’s propped up.
Times have changed for the better, if only slightly, if I can choose Brokeback over that hypocritical and pretentious demon.
Trex- a profoundly important post.
Thank you ;)
I have long been sick about the people who spew that “those people have been fighting forevah!”
That is ignorance; thanks for helping to sweep that and much more into the dustbin of lies.
For all its faults, it must be remembered that Iraq was a largely secular nation before we got there.
Okay, now chilled out enough to get back on topic.
Cannot recommend enough this great article at New York Review of Books, “War within War“, by Max Rodenbeck.
It’s not about Iraq, but about the wider problem across the entire Middle East; we are on the cusp of a conflagration between Shi’a and Sunni that extends across the entire region. The hostilities this summer between Hezbollah and Israel were a foreshadowing of the spread.
Imagine what it would take for Saudi Arabia to align with Israel; boggles the mind, and an overwhelming percentage of Americans have no ken of the undertow at work here, or the size of the djinn Americans let out of the bottle.
TRex @ 13
yeppers and i would venture to say Iraq does not have any fault when it comes to our invasion and occupation…
the people suffered under Saddam and thru Poppy and Clinton and now worse than ever under dubya.
TRex @
13
Which tends to be one of the major points that I make when describing the differences and the cultures to others. ::sigh::
I really do try, but even in Seattle, many people don’t want to have think. I know too many people who are willfully ignorant, so trying to get them actually understand what’s going on makes my head hurt.
Hey Trex!
Good info - and so important to point to the fact that it is the American invasion - and the resulting “choices” made by Bremer and gang that encouraged sectarian divide.
Can we all just wake up from this horrible nightmare called President Bush?
Sometimes I wonder what will happen when these sects find unity in hating the USA, and turn against us together, united. Surely their differences between one another are less than either of their differences with us. Especially given the hellhole we’ve made of their homeland.
Thanks for this education, TRex. Odd that God would pit us one against another for the way we choose to worship God, but what are ya gonna do?
The post reminds me of an interview I heard a couple of years ago on NPR with a “middle east expert” (college professor)
He said “Well the administration may have some really bright people- but they SURE ARE IGNORANT–for instance Wolfowitz was talkin to some people at a social function where he said that we were lucky cause there were no important religious shrines in Iraq like there are in Saudi Arabia”
He also said that the NEO CONS should have known- but didn’t- that the first history lesson Iraqi schoolchildren get is about how they threw the Brits out when they came and said “We’re here to liberate you”.
Resistance to occupation and imperial dominance is at the heart of Iraqi nationalism…
DUHHHH!
OT– ROTFLMAO– you gotta see Colbert!
What did the neo-cons need with Iraq experts or scholars- they had their own!!
angie @ 21
Tonight’s word - The Draft
Ryan @
18
Unfortunately, this isn’t the type of nightmare one can “wake up” from. One has to actively do something to do end it.. or in this case it’s probably a series of things…
This is really fantastic work. Very important, and great job finding FP Watch.
Pachacutec @ 25
Thank you, Pach.
And FP watch found me.
I don’t think Galbraith says that Bush didn’t know the difference between Shia and Sunni, I think Galbraith says that Bush didn’t know there was a difference between Shia and Sunni. It’s on page 86 of his book “End of Iraq”. Go to Borders, etc. and take a look and if you aren’t sick, before you read it you will be after.
Bush is causing pain deep in the heart of Texas — not just Iraq…
Guess they’re used to his MO:
And it all ends with..
Hey, isn’t there some gooper penchant for cost-benefit analysis? Yo Goopers — get out your green eyeshades! Dumbya’s runnin up a heck of a bill and now he’s printing those gangster presidents. All of it hot!
I wish the Washington Note had some kind of sitemeter so we could see how many CIA hits it’s getting.
Now that is a very instructive map…Course I love maps anyway, but it is very interesting to see the distibution of Shia and Sunni across the Muslim world.
Thanks for some good information. I understood the original point of schism between Sunni and Shia, but not the relationship to religious hierarchy or the differences in interpretation of the basic texts. So, you gave me a bit of new information to chew on.
It occurs to me that, if members of the two general sects in what is now Iraq managed to get along for as long as they did without Saddam’s secularized strongarming, there might be some historical basis for reconciliation. Provided, of course, that some third party (not the U.S., obviously) were able to get the political aggrandizers in both groups to put a sock in it long enough to explore that basis. Trouble is, as long as Der Shrubbenfuhrer is determined to make matters worse (read: do pretty much anything except withdraw and look for regional diplomatic consensus, or more briefly, anything Bush can conceive of), that isn’t likely to come about.
William Jensen @ 27
Either way, did Bush think there were two sects with different names only to explore the rich phonemic possibilities of the Arabic language? What a stooge.
Well, kids, I’m about to head home. I’ll check back in from there.
I was kind of hoping that Jebediah would show up tonight so we could all thank him, but he’s either being shy and lurking or too busy studying for his final exams. Well, hopefully, we’ll be seeing a lot more of him in the future.
Since Shrubya also doesn’t know the difference between Shit and Shinola, this particular blind spot can’t be surprising.
Colbert: “You’re retired, how are you getting by on a fixed income?”
Jack Welch: “Social Security….”
Great post TRex, as usual. What hurts most, as an American expatriate in Canada now for 30 years, is that if you had our parliamentary system Bush would have been long gone due to a vote of non-confidence. It’s so frustrating to watch my homeland just come apart.
It seems unlikely that Bush has ever had more than a grade school understanding of the world and how it works- worse- he has a crazy fairy tale version that he partly invented himself- that causes him to ignore anything that he might otherwise learn…
Things are goin Jest FINE.
Colbert: “You know, I have a foundation….the STEPHEN and Melinda Gates Foundation….”
TRex,
I started reading your posts during YK when you did that brilliant piece on wonkett. Since then I have enjoyed the near nightly snarkfest.
Thanks for highlighting your serious side tonight.
thanks for the pictures above– so terribly sad.
Iraq includes within its borders the ancient fertile and coveted land located between the Tigress and Euphrates Rivers.
While it is interesting to note the fundamental differences between the Shiites and the Sunnis, I find it most interesting to learn that the US has caused the two factions to go after each other with a bloodlust never before unleashed. Fascinating too is the overwhelming number of Sunnis throughout the Muslim world and the concentration of Shiites in Iraq and Iran. Really is one hell of a clusterfuck or a Custerfuck, even.
OT - snow cones
twolf1 @ 42
707!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great post, it leads me to a question. So when Cheney claims the aim of some group is to re-establish the great Caliphate, would that be the Shiites who plan to convert the other 85 percent of the Islamic world in order to do so?? Was the Caliph a Shiite? And how freakin’ likely is that? (That one was rhetorical.)
Tony Snowcones.
Scoop @ 44
I see no reason to believe Cheney cares, even if he understands the question. He’s just talking trash.
Good one, TRex. Thanks.
I wonder why the sectarian violence in Iraq looks so much like what was going on in places like El Salvador and Guatemala. Folks who’ve gotten along, even at arms’s length for many years suddenly plagued by death squads.
I’m more than beginning to think that some folks over there were trained in something very much like the school of the americas.
Perhaps it’s the rolling image of contractors in a van shooting civilians on a highway to a Elvis Presley tune. This so called sectarian violence smells of Negroponte…
Need a little Christmas?
Scoop @ 44
I believe it is Osama and his buds (al Qaeda, Sunni) who want to restore the Caliphate.
“Boyo, I shore am glad we part of the Western Xtian world where there ain’t no stuff like these feckin’ religious sects killin’ each other.” said Paddy O’Toole of Belfast, Northern Ireland.
Blogkeeper, another round for me an all me Irish relatives.
In order to excuse the US government of any responsibility for the tragedy it has created in Iraq, some claim that the Sunnis and Shiites have been at each other’s throats since the death of Ali in 661. This is vicious propaganda. However, even if it is true that “it was the Americans who unleashed it” (Professor Juan Cole), there still had to be something to unleash.
I am still hunting for a good explanation of why the differences between Sunni and Shia are capable of resulting in mass murder. And not just in Iraq. In Afghanistan, Sunnis persecute the Hazara people, who are Shiites. (The Hazara are racially quite different from other Afghanis.)
I am not an expert and would really love to hear from someone who knows more, but here are the factors I have figured out so far.
1) The first officially Shiite government was the Safavid dynasty in Persia (Iran), founded in 1501, which is much more recent than the death of Ali in 661 (when the Sunni-Shia division first occurred). Since then Shia is associated with Iran, so the Shia-Sunni divide is often also a cultural divide between Persian culture and Arab culture. So there is a close, but not complete association with ethnicity. In reports from Iraq (in English), I have read that some Sunnis refer to Iraqi Shiites derogatorily as “Iranians”, even though they are Iraqis and Arabs.
Persia/Iran is nearly twice as old as Islam, so the role of Persian/Iranian culture within Islam seems to have been an ongoing issue within Islam. In many other areas, the pre-Islamic culture was pretty completely overwhelmed (Pakistan), but not in Persia.
2) Islam places a strong emphasis on unity. It discourages theological speculation of the kind that led to disunity and large-scale mutual killings among Christians in the areas that Islam first expanded to from Arabia. Sunnis particularly emphasize this. For Sunnis, all the big questions are already settled. Opening them to renewed discussion creates the potential for disunity. Disunity can lead to disaster. Anyone who re-opens the big questions can cause huge harm to all Muslims.
Shiites have a more elaborate religious hierarchy and have imams. Imams are _very_ roughly analagous to popes. They can change doctrine that Sunnis consider settled. On this basis, Shias are very roughly to Sunnis as Mormons are to Christians. Or Shias are very roughly to Sunnis as Nyingma Tibetan Buddhists are to Gelukpa Tibetan Buddhists (the Dalai Lama’s school).
3) Muslim forces outside Iraq are helping fuel the fires of Sunni-Shiite conflict as part of their rivalry. In particular, Iran is aiding the Shias and Saudi Arabia the Sunnis. So a regional power struggle is amplifying these tensions.
4) Now for completely pure speculation. If you look at the history of British colonialism, the British were very big on “divide and conquer”. Most of the civil wars since WW2 occurred in former British colonies between groups that the British had played against each other: India vs. Pakistan, West Pakistan vs. East Pakistan (Bangladesh), Greeks vs. Turks in Cyprus, the Karen rebellion in Burma, Protestant vs. Catholic in Northern Ireland, Jew vs. Arab in Palestine (now mostly Israel). I can not help wondering if the British might have been playing off Sunnis and Shias in Iraq while they ran the country.
Again, I am _not_ an expert and hope someone out there can and will explain this better than I did.
Got a question for WaPo White House correspondent Peter Baker? He chatz tomorrow at 11am eastern. Questions accepted anytime!
Also, Opinion Columnist Eugene Robinson chatz at 1pm eastern.
I almost choked on my snocaps when I heard John Kasich say one day that Sunnis and Shias have been fighting “for two thousand years.”
Fern @
30
Jon Kilpinen of Valparaiso University teaches geography, and put together a great set of maps for his course entitled “American Ethnic Geography.” He has groups of US maps describing the distribution of ethnic groups, culture regions, religion, language, politics, and socio-economics. I ran across it when looking for some basic maps on American religious diversity, and these offer a lot of interesting information.
Great post, TRex - and greatly needed.
While it is interesting to note the fundamental differences between Shia and Sunni, I am reminded of the religious wingnuts here in the homeland: Evangelicals like Pat Robertson, Falwell and Dobson; the fire and brimstone Baptists; Catholics with Pope Benny denying Kerry communion and meeting with Neil Bush. They put aside their differences to persecute gays and women in order to stop abortions and support a war.
Gotta love religion and its long-standing relationship with the right wing!
Speaking of Cheney and the Shiites, I was reminded of this quote in Gary Kamiya’s review of George Pakcer’s book in Salon:
hackworth @
41
Maybe this was paramount in the minds of American Neo-Cons and Likudniks, weaken the ‘enemy’ and reap the spoils.
Sure looks like it is panning out that way.
Looks to me that BLACK OPPS blew up Al Askan Mosque up and blamed the Sunnis in order to get Iran sucked in so we could A bomb then.
James E. Thompson–@ 57– you may very well be right, imho.
OT–
but I can’t stop thinking that if you’re gonna send troops in without equipment, the Scots are doing much better than we are…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....t_shortage
Thanks, Peterr - duly bookmarked - They look like fun - I’ll come back these when it’s not the middle of the night.
Night all,
Fern
Iraq Insurgents Starve Capital of Electricity
Sparkles at 56-
Makes me wonder how Bush and Friends could engage in such a plan with good buddy Saudi Arabia being naturally, perhaps vehemently, opposed to helping Shiites make any gains.
twolf1 @ 60
Is it really the “insurgents” doing this??
I do wonder.
I’d be interested to understand more about the attracting/repelling forces between Qom and Najaf within Shiite circles as it relates to the emerging relationship between Shia in Iraq and Iran.
There’s another word I’m looking for that I’ve seen paired with Qom - the ‘Um’ or something. It points to an old separation within the Shiite sect that has promoted a degree of separation between Shia in Iran and Iraq.
Joint Chiefs unanimously oppose The Surge.
hackworth 41 — I suspect there’s been bloodshed between sects that Americans didn’t grok.
Hezbollah = Shi’a
Hamas = Sunni
Wahhabi = orthodox Sunni
And then there’s all the other political factions that may or may not be exclusively affiliated with one sect or another.
What were Ba’athists? They were founded upon secular ideas, but were they primarily Sunni?
What is the PLA and the Palestinian Authority? If they’re not Hamas, are they Shi’a? Or Sunni? some sub-sect or school?
If only it was as clear as Ireland…
Pachacutec - if you’re around left you a comment downstairs -208 in EPU time.
Hey TRex and all - sorry to be so late and OT - been that kinda day. So happy everyone is still up. Please excuse me while I catch up on my Late Nite reading of TREX & y’all.
TeddySanFran @ 64
Good Find, TSF. Though carefully worded, it looks like a much bigger rift between the Bush WH and the Pentagram than what they care to share. Note how they avoid the word escalation.
Rayne @ 65
Ireland is an interesting parallel. Although the particular sect is an important marker, it’s not the only one. Some of the strongest Irish nationalists - Wolfe Tone, for example, were Protestant.
The sectarian divisions in Iraq, though important, are also not the only ones. There are also tribal, regional and ideological splits that feed into the current turmoil. We also can’t discount the ideological, political and economic alliances that transcend the sectarian divides.
Yes, Sunni.
This is my next line of inquiry. I also want to find out why Fatah and Hamas are at each other’s throats right now. They’ve just called for early elections to see if Hamas can be ousted from power. Given the hardship imposed on that regime by the international community, I suspect that life under Hamas has not been all that great.
We all need to know this stuff. The Iraq War and its consequences are going to be with us for a long time.
Update: 17 of the Red Crescent kidnap victims have been released, 13 are still held. MfI’s site will have updates direct from Baghdad.
Trex - as always the best source for all of that remains Fisk … check him out. Plus he gives great context from British colonial days and previously covered Northern Ireland so he groks the parallels.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/
One of the best while reasonably short essay’s on the Iraqi Sunni/Shia battle is in the boston review:
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR31.6/rosen.html
Patrick 4/4 — Can’t disagree there; the Kurdish, for example, are an entirely different situation and challenge. A logical solution is an independent Kurdistan, but the very idea is anathema to Turkey and would cause a catastrophic break between the U.S. and Turkey if the U.S. were to endorse it. Not to mention whether this might also rile up other neighboring but less friendly countries bordering the potential independent Kurdistan.
I wonder about the Assyrians; they are never mentioned; same with the Marsh Arabs, nary a mention in the press. Yet they must be woven into the fabric of Iraq.
Rayne @ 73
Which of course, points again to the idiocy of this whole adventure. Rummy was entirely too confident that he had the unknown unknowns under control.
Patrick 4/4 — read between the lines of Sibel Edmond’s writings, and remember that Brewster-Jennings covered Turkey. Remember also that troops deploying to Iraq in early 2003 were delayed by Turkey. There’s also the issue of the PKK; look at its source of funding, just for starters.
Hell yeah. Unknown unknowns under control, my left cheek. Arrogant, stupid white men run amok with this country’s check book, unable to find an encyclopedia to save our lives.
Sorry to all my white male peeps, but you know, after watching a lot of CSPAN and cable news today, I’m really sick of the sound of white middle-aged men in the Beltway bloviating over stuff like Iraq that they don’t understand and about which they’ll never catch a clue.
I fart in the general direction of the White House.
Damnitall, here I am, up way too late again, chatting with FirePups.
Sad: Heath Ledger crying over unrequited love
Sadder: Me crying about Iraq, because even less will come of it than Ledger’s tears.
Rayne @ 78
Tears over Iraq are understandable, but we have to dry those now, keep pressure on the new Congress to do the right thing and get a new President in 08 who will work for the people.
TeddySanFran @
65
gee, wasn’t junya sayin’, just the other day, he was listenin’ to the generals?
TRex, thanks for the needed Islam 101 primer. now, which ones are the birds, and which the bees?
Rayne @ 76
Not only that but they want to make you go to churchy and give parental rights to rapists.
Have at it. The men have effed things up all this time. We need some women in charge.
It’s completely off topic, but here’s the start of that blog I was talking about a few days ago.
Now, to go back and catch up on the comments since I last commented. I’m exhausted.
OldCoastie @
80
we need one of these
“This is my next line of inquiry. I also want to find out why Fatah and Hamas are at each other’s throats right now. They’ve just called for early elections to see if Hamas can be ousted from power. Given the hardship imposed on that regime by the international community, I suspect that life under Hamas has not been all that great.”
As far as I know, all the Palestinians are Sunni. However, that has not been a major element of Palestinian identity. Since many Israelis have said that Palestinians are just Arabs and should assimilate into other Arab nations, to emphasize a Sunni identity would actually undercut their specifically Palestinian identity and their claim to lands in Israel/Palestine.
I read somewhere today that the Saudis have offered large funding to Fatah if it will crush Hamas, because Hamas is tied to Iran. Also, Fatah is secular and Hamas Islamist.
(Yes, Hamas is Sunni and Iran is Shiite, but in this case what is more important to them is that Hamas has wanted funding from Iran and Iran has wanted the prestige of being seen as helping the fight against Israel. For that matter, Fatah has always been secular, so for them to be backed by the ultra-religious Saudis is odd. More than Northern Ireland, this resembles the 30 Years War.)
OldCoastie @ 80
He meant to say hearin’. He wuz hearin’ the generals. He’s listenin’ to god. God told him to strike so he did and do still he strike.
Theres a sayin in Tennessee an in Texas. Don’t get fooled agin! But we did!
DreamingCrow @ 83
bravo! beautifully expressed and written.
this is such an important topic and you certainly can be an enormous help and resource for people.
good luck!
I just wrote both my (D) Senators. Usually I try to have a monicum of politeness, but somehow the words, “that nitwit, Bush” just slipped so easily right into the emails.
I’m not calling him “president” any more.
I’m going to try a bit harder to let my outrage show with my own Tom-Delay-Republican Congress Idiot.
angie @ 87
great start. I hope you find light at the end of that tunnel.
angie @ 86
Well done, indeed. If there are any resources that haave been helpful to you, add them to your sidebar. You are off to an impressive start.
Well, has someone now actually explained the basic sectarian distinctions of the region to President Dimbulb? I demand proof that he has a clue today. Was he even curious enough to ask?
g’ night, all… past my bedtime…
DreamingCrow @ 83
Wow DC, whatever you do, don’t get so exhausted that you stop that superb writing at your new blog!
Is there anything we can help you with?
John @ 91
C’mon, you know that answer…did you have to ask?
TeddySanFran @ 65
TeddySanFran @ 65
Note that the WaPo has totally bought the White House’s framing of the debate–it repeatedly speaks of a “surge” without using quotation marks, rather than the perhaps more descriptive [and clearly understood, to those whith memories of Vietnam] term “escalation.” A “surge” suggests a temporary upswell, whereas “escalation” seems more open-ended, as would be what the White House is suggesting.