It's the last gasp of American credibilty as it strains against the malignant legal misinterpretations and persistent lies of the Bush Administration's disrespect for the rule of law and utter disregard for the oath to uphold and protect the Constitution. From the NYTimes:
Detainee 200343 was among thousands of people who have been held and released by the American military in Iraq, and his account of his ordeal has provided one of the few detailed views of the Pentagon’s detention operations since the abuse scandals at Abu Ghraib. Yet in many respects his case is unusual.
The detainee was Donald Vance, a 29-year-old Navy veteran from Chicago who went to Iraq as a security contractor. He wound up as a whistle-blower, passing information to the F.B.I. about suspicious activities at the Iraqi security firm where he worked, including what he said was possible illegal weapons trading.
But when American soldiers raided the company at his urging, Mr. Vance and another American who worked there were detained as suspects by the military, which was unaware that Mr. Vance was an informer, according to officials and military documents.
At Camp Cropper, he took notes on his imprisonment and smuggled them out in a Bible….
Nathan Ertel, the American held with Mr. Vance, brought away military records that shed further light on the detention camp and its secretive tribunals. Those records include a legal memorandum explicitly denying detainees the right to a lawyer at detention hearings to determine whether they should be released or held indefinitely, perhaps for prosecution.
The story told through those records and interviews illuminates the haphazard system of detention and prosecution that has evolved in Iraq, where detainees are often held for long periods without charges or legal representation, and where the authorities struggle to sort through the endless stream of detainees to identify those who pose real threats.
The Bush Administration has managed to do in six short years what more than two hundred years of our nation's history had not done: un-do the notion of American commitment to human rights, the rule of law, and to freedom and justice. All with a series of decisions, one piling up on top of the other — with no check, no balance, no oversight, simply one rubber stamp after another for the last six years from the Republicans in Congress who cared more about their hold on personal power than they did about their oath to uphold and protect the Constitution.
And I thought yesterday's in-depth article on the mess that is the Iraqi legal system was going to be the worst thing I had to read this week. To hell with due process, screw that cruel and unusual punishment restriction, and all that malarky about the first amendment — well, who needs it! Right to counsel? Let's just ignore that altogether.
There had best be some accountability and some tough questions asked, and soon. Beyond that, I can't even get past sputtering rage…so I'm going to let Atrios hit the journamalism points on this. And then I'll let Digby do the honors on things back at the gulag. Jeebus. This is just painful.
Related posts:
- Supreme Court Will Hear Uighur Case
- Uh, Which Civil Liberties Groups Pushed For A ‘Prolonged Detention’ Executive Order?
- Town Hall Protests: Full of Sound and Fury; Signifying Nothing About Health Care
- McChrystal: Detainee Abuse Initially Informed by Rumsfeld Memo
- Khadr Case Goes Nowhere at Gitmo (Again)
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The Constitution!
Human rights? Respect for the Constitution?
Humbug!
Let’s make sure that this does not happen any more!
Great post, Christy!
Am a bit miffed this morning. Can you tell?
you know it’s bad when the universities in texas openly smack the president’s crediblity around
this just made my MONTH !
from the texas monthly
HOO YA!
Christy,
I hoped and believed from the get “impeachment is not on the table” was just to get past the elections.
Once some oversight is committed, and some proper investigation done, what comes slithering out from under the rocks will demand impeachment.
If not, Democrats will go the way of the dodo, and the Republic will become Empire.
perris @ 5
OOPS, a little backround
that’s a letter from the staff and administration from one of the colleges the president has tapped for the home of his library
OH BABY
If it cheers you up any, my experience spending 95% of my time out of the US for the past several years, is that Bush’s credibility is darned near shot (and has been for some time) but the US in general hasn’t suffered the same fate.
The midterms helped a great deal. And I think a rousing round of hearings and investigations, followed by a few impeachments and some criminal charges, and topped off with another heartfelt message from the voters in 2008 would suffice to earn back the world’s trust.
People don’t expect Americans to be perfect, and by and large (again, in my experience) they can sympathise with the problems of living under a corrupt and heavy handed administration.
Before the recent election I was frequently asked why we had reelected Bush, et al, and I pointed out that the MSM had kept the news of many of his abuses from the general public until after the 2004 election. This generally elicited sympathetic nods, and in one case a fellow asked that I pass on any information about his country that I came across, since he suspected that the same thing was happening where he lived. We wound up having an interesting discussion about the ins and outs of anonymous international web browsing.
In summary: most people in the world understand our plight better than many in the US seem to.
–MarkusQ
By the way, speaking of Iraq:
Per OneCrankyDom (emphases mine):
Somewhat OT but pertinent because war related:
From Salon’s War Room today:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/
MarkusQ — well, that is a bit reassuring. Everything I’ve been hearing has been so bleak in terms of long-term damage on reputation overall, that it is good to know that at least some folks discern the differences between Bush’s craptastic policies and the whole of the US. That has been the pattern in the past, but the information that I had been hearing and reading was so overwhelmingly negative overall…so good to know that there is some understanding on the other side of things. Thanks much.
Biodun: See my comment at #9. A lot of people owe Harry Reid apologies.
Phoenix Woman @ 9
Yes, but the clip we see on MSM is the one where he agrees to the short term “surge.” (Or maybe as in “serge” wherein the fabric is totally hemmed in and cut to the very margin at the same time.)
MarkusQ @
8
Thanks for the perspective. I’d love to hear more from the non-US firepups about the situation where they are – and maybe encourage some overseas lurkers to share their perspectives as well.
Christy Hardin Smith @
4
Thank you Christy, painful as it is for all during this season nominally of peace and love for all.
INDEED! May we join your parade?
Abuse perpetrated by others beyond US control is wretched.
That sanctioned and carried out at the behest of our own government is intolerable!
January cannot come soon enough.
Impeachment is still not off my agenda, no matter what the “experts” may say.
Even I was surprised to read how low the US ranks in the world for a free press in most current ratings…53. The drop in recent years has been dramatic. Blame the liberal media, say the wingnuts, never mind if that makes no sense.
Biodun @ 10
Related to this, Juan Cole has some good comments and recommendations concerning Elliot Abrams.
Phoenix Woman @ 12
Thanks. Yes, people often forget that Harry used to be a boxer. So he’s, of course…er, cagey.
Great Post–Now can we please impeach Bush and Cheney to get our country’s Constitution, credability, and respect back. But more importantly to protect its citizens. Two years is too long to wait for a change.
Phoenix Woman @ 9
Thank you. There was a bit of a dustup last night about Reid’s statement. Unfortunately, also a certain amount of emotional reasoning about it.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 4
Keep it comin’.
That’s why they call it RIGHTEOUS indignation.
ironranger @ 16
Okay. Since the Person of the Year is You, Me, Us, we need to keep putting one foot in front of the other, and never give up. Time Mag. eds may not yet have a full understanding of whom they’ve chosen, but we know, and we need to keep going. Hammering the MSM until it/they shape up and do their job(s) is a small job for each one of us, but individually & together …..
By the way, Markus Q 8, we’ve done a bit of travelling during the past few years also, and we find situation similar to your observation. It gives us hope.
The Constitution is on hold…. As long as Bubble Boy asserts his privilege to the Unitary Executive theory.
The “Unitary Executive” theory is really just another name for the ancient “King With Advisers” form of government, widely used around the world for thousands of years in human history. The basic idea is that the King has the final authority and makes all the final decisions. He may consult with his advisors, but he is free to disregard their advice. He may look at the law, but he is not required to follow it. The role of the people is to go along quietly with whatever the King wants to do.
THE ESSENTIAL PROBLEM FOR US is that this Theory denies the authority of Congress, the Supreme Court, or anything else to interfere with the President’s performance of his functions, however he chooses. Thus Congress and the Supreme Court become merely Advisers, with no authority over the President.
That is Dictatorship, the very thing the American Revolution was fought to eliminate. Thus we see that the Unitary Executive Theory is a deviant theory, inherently anti-American, and has no place anywhere in our system of goverment.
Hi egregious.
How you doin’? We think of you here often.
Peace and love. ;->
Now, this is the kind of statement I find entirely unacceptable…and of course, it comes from that paragon of progressivism (not!), Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Senator Clinton continues in her blinkered opinion that there is a way to “stabilize” Iraq with troops. Senator Reid at least sees the need for withdrawal.
I just read the NYT article before coming here, thinking that it would catch your attention. While not surprising, it is shocking, and outrageous. I hope people go to jail for setting up a system in which this can happen.
I don’t recall a surge being needed for the absquatulation of troops from Vietnam. They got their butts out of there.
A troop increase is a troop increase is….
The long capitulation has begun.
EvilDrPuma @ 17
I don’t want to defend Powell, but if you read Karen de Young’s thoughtful book, Soldier: The Life of Colin Powell, you might change your mind about him. The worst moment in his career was definitely that speech accompanied by the slide show at the UN.
http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_…..ords=karen de young&Go.x=9&Go.y=12
degustibus @ 28
I’m not enough of a tactician to argue with conviction that some additional troops are or are not necessary to guarantee safety during a pullout. I am getting a few white hairs in my beard, though, and one thing that put them there is learning the hard way that absolutism of any kind rarely produces desirable results.
sad to say this occurs when we no longer watch those who run the country. and for letting one party run the place – especially those who claim moral superiority! now its up to the dems to restore rights that have been stripped in the name of ” fighting terrorism”.
This is how we treat our own informers, and we wonder why the Iraqis aren’t “stepping up”. Sheesh.
Biodun @ 29
But other than THAT, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?
Biodun @ 29
Sorry, but what makes up my mind is Powell’s involvement in the My Lai coverup and the Iran-Contra coverup. If the UN speech was his worst moment, it can’t have been much of a career.
Christy Hardin Smith @
4
I hope and pray that we see the day when Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and all the rest of them are hauled before The Hague on war-crimes charges.
First step is for the Democratic Congress to get the truth out into the light of day. We need some latter-day Frank Churches.
The hard part is, there are so many horrors that, in a more reasonable world, would all be the top priority after a change in government of this sort. Iraq in a whole bunch of ways, Katrina, Afghanistan, global warming, domestic wiretapping, removal of the most basic protections against being held indefinitely and being treated abominably…it’s enough to make one’s head explode.
Its interesting that someone investigating arms deals was “accidentally” picked up. Are we to believe that this was an innocent mistake?
Jim H @ 36
Well, remember that this is post-Bush Iraq, where the laws of quantum physics have changed. The probability of an event occurring is directly proportional to its inexplicability, stupidity, and moral unacceptability.
mrJJ @ 24
What makes the King with Advisors work so well for them is the media. It allows them their labels such as Unitary Executive and promotes it for them like a PR firm. Joe Sixpack is clueless and ever-fearful of terra. Needed is a big media bust up on the basis of Anti-trust laws, Monopolies, etc. and a reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine. Rush Limbaugh should be accountable for answering calls from all listeners.
Something to ponder:
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.e…..m?HHID=515
More troops is NOT leaving. More troops is ESCALATION.
You’re right on, Adie. The encouraging thing is that people in my world who haven’t been paying attention are more & more skeptical of what they hear in msm, finally!
OT: I just sighted 2 more lighted peace sign wreaths (other than our own) in our area.
hackworth @ 38
Hell, the Fairness Doctrine would require a 3-hour program by a lefty. And yep, we ought to bring back the Fairness Doctrine.
If we get Net Neutrality passed, we won’t need the FD in the long run. But we still need it now and in the near term.
More troops is Escalation. Pumpkinhead will NOT use this word, except to point out that democrats are surrender monkeys.
Once again, the fake news is more accurate than the real news:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56628
Oh, please!
Abraham Lincoln himself suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War. The nation, the rule of law, human rights, freedom and justice all recovered.
I had to force myself to read the Times article this morning, and almost threw up. I have imagined something like this happening to any of us. You start out on a trip to see your mother in Iowa, and you don’t arrive, and no one knows what happened to you after you left home. I pointed out this scenario three years ago, and it always bores its way back into my head that I might become a ‘mistake’.
The worst thing about this is that a substantial minority of the American people — I think possibly as high as 35 to 40 percent, though perhaps no more than 25(!) are ready to go along with this on the grounds that even if you hang a few innocents, you get all of the ‘bad guys’.
It must be a very bad morning for you as an ex-officer of the Justice Department, Christy. Probably worse for you than any of us other than the person immediately affected by this torture? How did we sink so low? What was it about the Republican Party? Is it because they were taken over by ex-slaveholders (cf yesterday’s discussion with Schaller)? Is this Texas justice?
Adie @ 15
Sparkatus @ 2
Just a damned piece of paper!
Adie @ 25
This is the big week for those of us with seasonal depression. I start going down in mid-October, accelerate the week before Thanksgiving, and just live in dread the entire month of December. By the second week in January I start feeling better.
Am trying to get outside, ’sun on skin’ as recommended by a commenter here, to eat protein in place of starch, and to stop worrying about the entire world. Well that’s easy since things are going so well in our nation :o
All 3 kids will be home for Christmas so that’s one joy. Am trying to keep my to-do list to a minimum, like only one thing a day that has to be done. Then trying to rest and not be anxious about everything. It’s hard because I have no defenses and no reserves this time of year. ‘Touchy’ would cover it. I had to stop answering the phone because of being so grouchy.
Maybe the Grinch had seasonal affective disorder….
Thanks for asking.
Peter @14
I’d love to hear more from the non-US firepups about the situation where they are – and maybe encourage some overseas lurkers to share their perspectives as well.
Regarding Canada:
Navigator Limited did some interesting research on swing voters immediately after the last election, when the neocons won a minority government. This does not reflect all Canadians, but recent Conservative voters.
Here’s what they said about these voters:
In other words: The swing voters elected a government and said, “we want you to work with the Americans”.
However, this mandate came with a warning:
It seems that Conservative voters support collaboration with the US, but do not respect or like W at all. I am not sure that these people are too different from the broader Canadian populace.
I think it would be interesting to know what are the reactions of Canadians to the recent US elections.
You can’t impeach him if he didn’t know what he was doing. One day he’ll tell somebody, “I don’t know nuthin’!”.
Biodun @ 29
sorry, this is self serving rubbish, he is SUPPOSED to be serving this country, NOT this president
he was TOLD the aluminum tubes of mass destruction were nothing, he was told the “vans of mass destruction” were nothing, he was told that “line of site remote control , balsa wood “drone of mass destruction” held together with duct tape
was a child’s toy
when asked “Why didn’t you demonstrate the aluminum tubes at your presentation?” he actually responded;
“why would I demonstrate the weakest evidence in the pitch”
that’s right, he called the presentation a “pitch” and he KNEW the evidence was weak
so nobody can tell me he’s being a good soldier, he was being a traitor
now, maybe he’s found his patriotism and has decided to be a good soldier finally
but let me disabuse anyone from the notion that his mad was “a good soldier”
it’s largely because of this man that we went to war using data that was manufactured, that he knew was manufactured
now, colon powel, if you read the internet and read the most popular blogs, this being one of them, take this advice and save your country, your reputation, your legacy and your soul…take the tour, get on every news cast that will have you, and do what must be done to hold the people that did this to our country responsible
hackworth @ 50
of course you can
you impeach not as punishment but to prevent an official from doing additional harm
#24 ‘The Constitution is on hold’
To get some perspective on our present situation I have been re-reading German history. Have just got to the part in the 1860s where Bismarck invented the theory that the Prussian Constitution had a ‘hole’ in it, which laid down that the King and Parliament had to agree what was necessary for legislation, but omitted to state what would happen if they didn’t agree, so the King had to fill the ‘hole’ until the Constitution was fixed. What this meant in practice was that the King collected taxes and spent them on the army without the Parliament’s consent. After Sadowa the new Parliament ratified all the old collections, and Prussia’s already authoritarianb government was back on the road to dictatorship.
Just saying. A History Lesson.
Peterr @ 14
My most recent tidbits: Nicaraguans aren’t thrilled about Gates. Something about endorsing the use of bombs to assassinate politicians you don’t like bothers people who might inadvertently find themselves eating in the same restaurant as said politicians. Also, the Vietnamese thought it was very amusing that Bush gave a speech in HCMC about how if the US can just stay the course in Iraq it will someday be a great place like Vietnam is today. As the only country to beat the US in a war, they seem to have a rather different view of the US.
–MarkusQ
Alison @ 49
That looks like something Biden or Lieberman would write. Harper is the wrong guy for Canada. Nobody can negotiate anything tradewise with Dubya that isn’t heavily skewed in favor of the US. The only thing Harper is good for is attacking Canada’s excellent social programs.
John @ 44
Yes, but although Lincoln did that during a time of rebellion (one of the two circumstances under which the Constitution permits a suspension of habeas), he ignored the part about
Congress, not the executive, having the power to do this. His suspension was overturned by the U.S. Circuit Court for the District of Maryland (cf. Ex parte Merryman), but he ignored it.
In short, Lincoln’s suspension of habeas was unconstitutional, he ignored the ruling that it was unconstitutional, and in my opinion he should have been impeached for that.
The current damage to habeas is also unconstitutional: although an act of Congress exists, there is no condition of rebellion or invasion that justifies or warrants it.
perris @ 56
man oh man oh man
science that their theology doesn’t care for?
redackted
I wonder what these idiots would do to galileo…worse then what he suffered himself I suppose
1,366 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
There is much danger between now and the January opening of the new Congress but if “the center holds” and there are no more strokes or plane crashes…I think that the possibility of trials at the Hague for several of our faux leaders looms large.
In the meantime, we have a more pressing problem… gettin’ our kids home before the end of ‘07. In my opinion, the proposal for increased troop presence, as long as it’s 20-40,000, combined with Reid’s well-qualified support is brilliant politically and bonds the majority in Congress to the Generals in the Pentagon against the insanity of the fascists in the White House. If I’m right, we will see the first draw-downs by March and McCain’s plan to use the “stabbed in the back” attack line is dead on arrival.
As far as the growing awareness of the administration’s use of war powers against American citizens… that and the revelations from the Libby trial will fuel the tsunami that is headed for the bunkered up White House. Once Senate and House investigations begin, they will develop a momentum of their own and I think impeachment is likely before Spring.
So hold your anger close, Christy, and savor it and let it heat your writing like a pen warmed up in hell and…
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE POPCORN, THE BASTARDS ARE GUNNA HANGE, I TELL YA!!!
Christy Hardin Smith @
4
someone needs to go stand under the miffletoe… :~)
egregious — when you’re in that bubble of depression, it’s impossible to know how much the people on the outside love and care for you. I barely know you, and yet I know you are one of the good people in the world. The world is a better place because you are in it.
I suffered from suicidal depression for most of my life — into my late 40s. I still worry a lot, ha, but the clinical, suicidal, overwhelming depression is gone. I actually like being alive now and want more. For me, an 18-month course of Cel*x*a plus walking away from my family did the trick (my father and brothers — not my son).
Anyway, my point is: You are loved and enjoyed, probably by more people than you know. Those aren’t magic words; they won’t make you suddenly happy. But they may help to get through to the place where “Here Comes The Sun” plays everywhere you go.
Why am I feeling the urge to reread books like “One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch?” Manzanar and Amache established that “it can happen here.” Thank you, Christy, for taking the time at this busiest of seasons (and from cookie-making with your child) to highlight this abuse. I would think this story would make it clear to all just what is happening to our fellow citizens–and that we’ll continue to hear more about Vance and Ertel. I also expect (and hope) that Colin Powell has just begun to speak out.
the ruin america suffered at the hands of rumsfeld are officially over
http://www.alertnet.org/thenew…..473566.htm
perris @ 56
Disgusting. Contemptible. What’s next…Lysenkoism? Oh, wait, I forgot. Bush has his own favorite alternative to Darwin, the Magic Sky Pixie.
Word of the year:
Redacted
Jack
perris @ 56
Source and link, please?
perris @ 63
Onward to new ruin at the hands of Gates!
punaise @ 60
I carry my own with me and just wave it over my head
hmmm…maybe I’ll keep it hanging out of my pocket…better idea
Bay State Librul @ 65
I want the term of the year to be “escalating committment”
In summary: most people in the world understand our plight better than many in the US seem to.
–MarkusQ
wise observation
Peterr @ 66
sorry
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/…..ource=mypi
perris @ 69
Escalating committment has been redacted by the
government…
gotz to go for the afternoon, see all L8ter firedogs
perris @ 69
…of senior Bush administration officials for psychiatric evaluation…
EvilDrPuma @ 74
To see if they are fit to stand trial. At the Hague.
Speaking of retreat, I take it as a given that the retreat from “frozen Chosin” still lives in the memories of old rascals and some younger ones on this site. It certainly does in mine, and in these military minded people as well.
I think that to keep the retreat from becoming a “turkey shoot” – a possibility Steve Gilliard explored here earlier this month, additional combat ready troops will be needed to safeguard the retreat.
If this is so, then Reid might be forgiven, but not really, I don’t think. You don’t blab publicly about strategy, nor give your reasons for supporting such a stupidly named operation.
I guess what I am trying to say is that by putting forward the possibility of a retreat as an excuse for a troop buildup, you give away the game. Not smart, which is why I always thought that boxers by definition were not on the bright side of the ledger.
egregious @ 75
Wearing pink thong underwear. (Hey, the defense is going to be a comedy…why not go ahead and make it screwball?)
well, the snowjob is getting some tough questions.
“What’s the hold-up on the “new way” forward?” Why the wait?
Snow: this is not a crossword puzzle.
jerk.
(also some questions on Powell.)
This is just painful
Been that way for a few years now, and yet only a few Dems are pushing for restoration of our constitutional rights. That should tell you something deeply troubling and utterly important.
So what I want to know is, why do we keep helping the murdering bastards? Just askin’…
I want the term to be twenty years to life.
sorry, before I go, even though we’re having some fun with the word, I need to bring in a little wikepedia to demonstrate how accurate the term is for the people that continue supporting the military morons in office
perris @ 69
”
I want it to be commitment to jail or prison, after trial and conviction for ‘high crimes and misdemeanors’.
Accountability has never been a word that can be associated with George W. Bush. It no longer can be applied to the Republican Party since it sold itself to the Bush family.
Helen: does the preznit care about those that are dying?
Tony: Yes.
Helen: It’s the occupation, (stupid)
From the Times piece Christy opened with:
Shorter DOD response: You should have sent the letter certified mail, because we never got it.
In fairness to Lt. Fracasso, I’m guessing that the paperwork on this case might be a tad above her paygrade. Perhaps Messers Cambone, Feith, Addington, Yoo, and Gonzales might have a bit more information. Perhaps the other distinguished members of the Senate committees on the Judiciary, the Armed Services, and Intelligence will want to ask them a few questions.
Under oath.
In public.
On C-SPAN.
Dick Durbin’s already on the case, according to the Times, so he’ll have a head start, but I’m sure Mr Feingold and others will be rarin’ to catch up.
punaise @ 80
Without the possibility of parole, and sentences on multiple charges to be served consecutively, not concurrently.
Tony says he knows nothing about the WH silencing Flynt.
I know nuthink about this– will get back to you.
Tony: It is simply not true that the WH is silencing people.
angie @ 78
Longer T. Sugartastic Loco: This is not a crossword puzzle. The new way forward requires a lot of thought and consultation, because we need to ensure that it is new and goes forward. If the new way forward is neither new nor goes forward, then you’ll come back to me asking stupid questions about why the new way forward is the same as the old way backward, and I’m running out of snide answers. Off the record, I’d freely admit that the new way forward is exactly the same as the old way backward, just with similar rhetorical packaging. But I never say anything off the record. Everything I say is on the record. What I just said is not on the record, so I didn’t say it. The new way forward is not the old way backward, and seven down is not “mendacious.” Next question?
Peterr – they’re coming to get Yoo.
707 EvilDrPuma!
Egregious,
I too suffer seasonal affective moods, yet am not sure if it is also because I feel too much… You are making a difference in this community and I cherish your “voice”.
John at 44 — I suggest you read your history more closely. Abraham Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus under very limited circumstances for very limited periods of time. It was not suspended for the whole of the Civil War for any purpose that the President felt it handy to use it for over the whole of that period of time. Limited suspension during a time of invasion or insurrection is legal within the bounds of our COnstitution — read it and see that this is written into the document itself. The difference between Lincoln and George Bush? Lincoln respected the law and took pains to be certain that his actions fell within those bounds — and his actions were not without controversy, nonetheless, and were legally and rightfully challenged. George Bush’s utter contempt for the law (see his actions with regard to NSA wiretaps and the FISA laws and his wholesale decision to simply just ignore the legal requirements) is unprecedented in both scope and intent. If you don’t believe me, do a Google search for articles on Bob Barr’s latest statements on the subject — or Bruce Fein’s — both of whom are ultra-conservative lawyers.
Peterr @ 85
Amen.
Stories like this keep trickling out, little bit by little bit. We can bet that this Navy vet was also likely treated far better than other Americans in theater, not to mention non-Americans. The scary thing to consider is the stories of people we will never learn about – either because the victims are too afraid to tell the truth of their captivity, or that they are no longer alive.
What the hell happened to our country? Like Christy said, everything good that our America was supposed to stand for has been destroyed in just a few years. Will we ever be able to fix the damage this President and his minions have inflicted?
More bushco:
New thread, all.
Knut Wicksell @ 45
I was so upset when I read this article in the Times this AM
EvilDrPuma @ 34
Powell’s connection to My Lai and Iran-Contra has receded in history, obscured by the current war, for many Americans. Thanks for reminding us.
egregious @ 48
Egregious,
Re: the “sun on skin” which is usually my salvation.
I try to make it sun on skin while exercising. Normally, this time of year I hike, snow shoe or cross country ski almost every morning before work. The endorphin boost keeps me going all day.
This year I can’t, I was injured over the summer and am still in physical therapy and can’t do sports yet. Golly, do I feel he difference. And not in a good way
you do all realize this happened in Iraq right?
you do all realize this man says he was working for a company that he says was supplying insurgents with weapons right?
You do understand people do not get treated the same way in a war zone as they do in a peace time situation right?
What happened to this man was terrible, an obvious bureaucratic military tragedy, however in the end he was released and was not tortured. treated with extreme caution as a possible threat yes. Inhumanely? no way.
angie @ 94
EvilDrPuma @ 88
Nice translation!
If I were a WH press reporter, I’d have a hard time not following up with the question:
“So, you acknowledge that this isn’t a game. However, every week that the administration waits to reveal the new strategy, dozens more Americans die in Iraq. Most experts, including the newly sworn-in Secretary of Defense, agree that the current strategy and policies are failing, and the situation is deteriorating rapidly. How does the President justify waiting for more time to change the policy, all the while more soldiers are dying?”
I would never make it in the WH press corps. ;)
From: Whitehouse.gov (George.W.Bush)
To: All ‘Mericans
CC: The World
Memo:
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
W
angie @ 78
Maybe it’s an anagram for quagmire
Jsck
Concerned about torture Wash DC? Jan 11, be there or be square
Oh, please!
Abraham Lincoln himself suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War. The nation, the rule of law, human rights, freedom and justice all recovered.
John @44 –
Lincoln did not deny access to counsel, Lincoln’s attempt at military tribunals was overturned (Ex Parte Milligan), Lincoln did not allow torture and abuse – in violation of Constitutional bars of Bills of Attainder and Bills of Pain and Punishment, Lincoln didn’t hold anyone in isolation for years while performing mind and drug and abuse experiments on them even though their intel value, if they had any, was long gone; Lincoln didn’t argue for the right to torture or for the right to use tortured testimony; Lincoln didn’t recruit his DOJ to legalize torture; Lincoln didn’t attempt to use secret testimony and trials with no lawyers and toture testimony and trials without the right to be present to convict; etc.
A little bit different.
Ugly American @99 –
So, your point is that whatever you do, don’t be a whistleblower, right? BC that is what the revised US approach to justice has set in stone for most people.
Nonetheless –
a) you do all realize this happened in Iraq right?
Yes. The place where supposedly we operate under the Geneva Conventions You do remember the Geneva Conventions, right?
b) you do all realize this man says he was working for a company that he says was supplying insurgents with weapons right?
Oh please. He was the whistleblower and his call the embassy that they were in fear was likely the trigger to the raid and he was in constant FBI contact. He was taken to the embassy initially, where he could have easily remained and been questioned.
c) You do understand people do not get treated the same way in a war zone as they do in a peace time situation right?
War? I thought that was all “Mission Accomplished” a long time ago and the US was actively encouraging US citizens and investors to become actively involved in enterprises in IRaq – you know, so they can be rounded up at gunpoint and handled in violation of the Geneva Conventions – our own citizens, doing what they are being encouraged to do by the govt AND also being brave enough, in the heart of the killings, to be a whistleblower too.
Still, yes, in a war zone things are different. However, once you have someone in detention, with no weapons and no way of posing a threat, then there were, once upon a time, rules that were followed. Especially rules followed to prevent troops from assaulting their own civilians, but even to prevent them from brutalizing and mistreating innocent civilians of other countries. That has been completely abandoned by this military and this administration – a conscious decision to become lesser, less honorable, less competent, less effective, less humane. Less than the standards of the Geneva Conventions. Less than the moral thing, less than the humane thing, less than the right thing.
The only reason to mistreat people in detention is an unadulterated, unchecked, love of power over another human being.
D) What happened to this man was terrible, an obvious bureaucratic military tragedy, however in the end he was released and was not tortured. treated with extreme caution as a possible threat yes. Inhumanely? no way.
What planet are you living on that this treatment is not “inhumane?” His family not told whether he was alive or dead? Sleep deprivation, no access to counsel, constant terror, sensory deprivation, no advocate, MONTHS passing after the FBI info passed on and no indications of release at all?
I guess you think the Hamas kidnappings aren’t all the inhumane either, eh?
Keep dropping those expectations lower and lower – apparently this administration, this Department of Justice, and this military — they are all willing to sink as low as your expectations will go.
Even further.
egregious 48 & lhp 98
Yep! That’s why I asked. Kinda runs in my family also, & I second the advice you’ve been given/giving. Added wrinkle in my case: getting Lyme summer of ‘62 (yes, acutely aware they hadn’t even named it by then, so no trt. available, & 40 yrs of ‘interesting sidelights’ ensued). Suspect it didn’t help the basic tendencies any, heh.
Another “help” I’ve found. If someone’s been particularly ornery to me, I absolutely REFUSE to indulge in [”kick-the-dawg-’cause-the-boss-yelled-at-ya’] – syndrome (ethologists call it “redirection”). Instead, I try to perpetrate a “random act of kindness” on someone else ASAP. Feels like getting revenge, in an odd way, & is quite refreshing. I keep hoping it’ll be contagious.
I think there’s a lot of that kind of help here at the lake. Thanks for being here, guys.
Now. Go stand in the sun! Them’s orders! Oh. And hug that family & those friends, & let ‘em hug ya’ back.
see ya later… gotta go ruin some perfectly good cookie dough ;->
Mary 106
Hoo Boy! BRAVO!
Adie @
108
sing it, Mary!
I just can’t let this observation “you do all realize this happened in Iraq right” go, even with the above.
What this administration, this military and this Department of Justice have done is declare the whole world to be Iraq. It is a global war on terror and they claim the same rights to do the same things, without regard to whether someone is taken in the streets of Baghdad, off a train in Macedonia, at an airport in Chicago or New York. Whether someone is a citizen or not. Whether there is evidence, or not. Whether they will be tortured, or not. Whether they will be tortured for days, or for months, or through the years, the hundreds of days going to thousands of days, through the crumblings of their brain and their soul.
Happened in Iraq? Wake up – it’s already happened here, too and around the world and we have a long list of memos from our Dept of Justice soliciting that very behaviour and an unbroken string of lies and coverups in the court of public opinion and in the US courts. The recent release of the 2004 Military report about Padilla and the other S. Car. detaines – from May, 2004. Guess what happened in June, 2004? Our Dept of Justice held a press conf to tell us all about Zubaydah (leaving out the known, crazy guy and torture parts) and Padilla and was specifically asked about Padilla’s handling in detention and certifed to the American public that he was being treated humanely, no problems, ask DOD about Geneva Conventions, but hey – it’s all FBI guys, he’s not be being mistreated at all.
GollygeewillikersgdidIearnmenacushyjobwhenIleaveDOJ?
One month after the military report that said what was going on at S. Car went beyond what RUMSFELD had said would be breach of Geneva Conventions. For years.
Look back at the Iraq story. Why wasn’t he originally released – because there was a FINDING he was an enemy combatant – otherwise he would have had to be released. That is how ez it is to be found an enemy combatant. Besides, he “associated” with someone who they think MAY have been an enemy combatant. By, you know, turning in evidence on them, he “associated” with them.
Would that inspire anyone to ever be a whistleblower? To contact the authorities with suspected bad behaviour? If you convince them that it might be bad behaviour – you are de facto an “associate” of the bad guys and you can get a trip to GITMO too. Never work that way? Take another look at the guy who was an FBI informant and had Congressmen making inquiries – and was still labelled an enemy combatant and held.
Take a look here, with the cases like the one right after 9/11, where a hotel sec. guard took a piece of equipment left by an airline pilot in his room and put it into the room of a Egyptian (? I think that’s right – but I’d need to check) student and that student was detained. Held in isolation. Questioned. And even without sensory deprivation, or years, or rough interrogations, or being stripped and staked in pyramids or being waterboarded — within days that student CONFESSED.
Of course, by then, our DOJ had not finished perfecting its approach to justice, and when the airline pilot went back, looking for his equipment and pushing for answers, the detainee had not yet been shipped to GITMO.
Today – what would happen?
You know, I know.
Congress knows.
The military knows.
The Courts know.
The Department of Justice not only knows – they structured it.
Knowledge has become the least valuable thing in this country.
Mary — bless you.
It’s about time a White Face was put on this problem. Maybe the rest of America will finally take notice, that it’s our rights be taken away from us, and not ‘their’ rights taken away from ‘them’.
Mary @ 110
Had to de-lurk for this one. This is the most astute (and succinct) statement I have seen in a long while that summarizes all that is happening in this country. Hence the No Child Left Behind crap that does nothing but leave kids way, way, way behind. The dismantling of federal assistance for post-secondary education. The campaign strategies of responding to well-thought-out statements (sidebar: I had to listen to the 2004 presidential debates because we still had no electricity after several hurricanes, and how anyone could vote for W after that floor-wiping by Kerry astonishes and befuddles me) by mocking them as elitists or their “wooden” personalities. Intelligence and logic will soon be a relic of the past, since we are producing an entire generation that can handily choose from a,b,c, or d, but has no idea how to reason on their own, just parrot whatever they’re told. Those are the makings of a successful future dictatorship.
Thanks, Christy, for speaking out about this outrageous case at a time when the country seems too distracted to care. Donald Vance, an American citizen, veteran and whistleblower, had to smuggle his notes out of U.S. detention in a Bible, for God’s sake! It really does remind me of the famous poem First They Came … When will we wake up?
“…no record of either man complaining about their treatment“
And they said the same thing about Padilla, kept in a brig here in the US.
Someone needs to ask them a few questions:
“Do you have a formal process or department for complaints? If not, how do you know he had no complaints?”
“If you are tracking complaints, how do you ensure a prisoner isn’t punished for complaining? Do you have a system for tracking complaints, then?”
“Yes, you do track complaints? Can you give us statistics on how many prisoners complained, and what was the resolution of those complaints? You can’t?”
“Then how do you know he didn’t have complaints?”