
(Photo of taps being played at Arlington by AP Photo/Kevin Wolf.)
The day that the Iraq Study Group released its much anticipated report detailing the "grave and deteriorating" conditions in Iraq and recommending the President change his course, the official barometer of public moods, NBC's Tim Russert, passionately sounded the alarms as the Baker/Hamilton/O'Connor intervention unfolded before the public, press, and Congress. It was as though the catastrophe of Iraq and the need for an extaordinary intervention had been revealed to us for the first time. It was another Walter Cronkite Viet Nam moment.
Over the next week, the media zeroed in on what they assumed was the relevant question: "Will the President listen?" It was an interesting question, revealing more about how far the centrist media lags behind than it was asking about the President. Initial analyses wondered how a President so desparately in need of a "graceful exit" could possibly ignore so clear a message from such a distinghished, centrist and bipartisan group of Americans.
The wrong question stayed on the media's minds for about a week, while many of us waited impatiently for that inevitable epiphany, best exemplified by ISG member Leon Panetta. Barely a week after the report's release, he expressed total surprise that the President didn't seem to be listening at all and never had any intention of changing his fundamental policies or the way he pursued them.
WASHINGTON — Iraq Study Group member Leon E. Panetta believed that his panel's unanimous bipartisan recommendations about a new way forward in Iraq would give President Bush the political cover needed for a dramatic policy shift. So the former chief of staff to President Clinton has watched with alarm as Bush this week signaled that he may reject suggestions about diplomacy and withdrawing most US troops from Iraq by 2008.
Bush has even criticized the idea that the group was providing a "graceful exit" from the war — which is what Panetta and other panel members figured Bush most wanted.
What does it mean when a savvy and experienced Washington hand like Panetta, along with most of the media, is still surprised by all this? [sigh] At least now even the Beltway knows the answer to the wrong question, so perhaps it's time the media got to the more difficult and important question: "What should the country do when the President and his men continue to drive the bus into the Iraq ditch, but they ignore both the ISG report and the electorate's resounding message to start disengaging from Iraq?
Throughout this period, the Cheney/Lieberman/McCain/Kristol crowd who neoconned us into this war unleashed legions of neocon "experts" to every news outlet. Knowing that their careers, reputations and fantasies were at stake, they viciously ridiculed the ISG's recommendations as unrealistic, a recipe for humilitating defeat and a disaster for the Middle East if we followed the Baker/Hamilton "surrender monkeys." They counted on the press not asking whether their own policies were not already achieving the same results. And they had something that disengagement advocates did not have: the President's unwavering support.
As Swopa lamented here, now the media is accommodating the WH spin that the only questions worth asking are what will the President announce as the New Way Forward to victory in Iraq, when will he announce it, and how many more troops will he send to bring it about? Yet virtually everyone outside the neocon cabal agrees with the ISG conclusions that Iraq's condition is "grave and deteriorating" and that the President's policies are not only failing but exacerbating the problem. It is a tribute to the WH spin machine that they can induce an almost awake press to hold these conflicting views simultaneously without asking, "what's wrong with this picture?"
The Cheney/Lieberman/McCain/Kristol neocons are absolutely and irrevocably determined (h/t to Glenn for the link) to continue waging this war with however many American and Iraqi lives it takes to achieve whatever they define as victory (or avoid whatever they define as defeat). Nothing in the history of these men allows anyone to believe that they will ever see the world through different lenses. They're still at it. And the President we have for the next two years is, above all else, a true believer who cannot abandon his God-sanctioned policies without a personal crisis. He will break the Army before he risks breaking himself.
The President's men are going to prosecute this war to the bitter end no matter what the cost in lives and treasure, no matter what the American people said in November and no matter what the media think or what the family intervention wants. Reality-based thinking needs to start from that premise.
This is not just about sending more troops to Iraq to be shot at by everyone the President's policies and macho posturing are antagonizing, which is getting to be just about everyone. As the New York Times Sunday editorial, Unfinished Business (Times Select), reminds us, this Administration is hell bent to continue staining America's honor through every egregious violation of the rule of law — warrantless spying, renditions, indefinite detention, denial of counsel and legal recourse, torture, phony Iraq trials — brought to light in the last three years, not to mention those we don't yet know about but are undoubtedly occurring. And it's not just Middle Eastern "unlawful combatants" who are subject to the most serious crimes, now sanctioned by the Military Commission's Act. Immigrants and US citizens and whistleblowers and relief agencies are also victims or targets.
This regime does not believe in America. They don't accept the principle that the authority of government flows from the consent of the people. They don't believe in America's core ideas of democracy, or the rule of law, checks and balances, the Bill of Rights, individual human dignity, or such quaint notions as pursuing negotiations instead of war. They are putting the security of everyone in the Middle East, friends and foe alike, in danger, and they're starting to bring the war home.
So what do we do now? Nothing is going to stop these people from continuing what they're doing, and more of it, except removing them from office (or seriously threatening to do so). We need to begin asking questions about how we bring that about. A discussion might start here.
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zeroing in!
;(
angie @ 1
I assume that’s aimed at TeddySanFran and not me? ;)
Milbank on Eagleburger on what may be the REAL issue with regard to Junja:
Isn’t it important that the President is incapacitated?
He’s unable to Decide, therefore triggering Amendment XXV, Section 4.
All these big highpowered DC brains. Baker, Hamilton, Panetta, HRC, etc. Give me a break.
Scarecrow @ 3
neither of you dear men;
the picture made me choke up…and the post makes me enraged and sooo afraid and ashamed.
If impeachment’s off the table, I want a new table!
Clinton Impeacher Quits Republicans
By BEN EVANS
AP
WASHINGTON (Dec. 17) – A former Georgia congressman who helped spark President Clinton’s impeachment has quit the Republican Party to become a Libertarian, saying he is disillusioned with the GOP on issues such as spending and privacy.
TeddySanFran @ 7
if it’s off the table, that should mean it’s on the floor….of the House and Senate.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 8
Link, please.
Gotta close a tag up there….
punaise @ 9
Excellent.
(I just am gonna go completely bonkers if they fade quietly into the darkness with their ill-gotten gains and blood soaked hands.)
I do like the ambience of criminal investigations. And the Hague.
Fitz. And for God’s sake soon.
punaise @ 9
Yessirree, I like how you think, punaise.
The way I think about it, all roads lead to impeachment. Pick an investigation, any investigation.
The clowns in this horror show are just itching for a constitutional fight. They think they have imperial executive powers, and are willing to do things just for spite to prove this principle.
It really doesn’t matter which of the many crimes these mafiosi are investigated, or in what order, in the sense that they all lead back to their fundamental lawlessness.
2007 will be the year of the constitutional crisis.
Now, the question for me is, what can we do to help ensure that our Dem representatives — and especially the committee chairs — keep their spines strengthened?
Peterr @ 10
http://news.aol.com/elections/…..5309990001
It’s not Pelosi’s place to take impeachment ‘off’ the table.
In Praise of Impeachment
This is a poignant photo, given that we have a military taps player right here on fdl–ET. And he recently has people from Alaska, including some he knows, who have died in Iraq.
Guest post?
Peterr @ 10
While I don’t have a link to help out here, I just wanna chime in and say that I read that the other day — Bob Barr has joined the Libertarian Party, publicly giving the back of the hand to the GOP, who he says has abandoned constitutional principles.
When it happens, it will be the republicans, not the democrats, that march into the Oval Office and tell him “It’s over George, we are not going to allow you to destroy this party, this country and this world for your ego.” Just like they did with ‘Tricky dick.’
The link from Crooks and Liars on the Barr defection from the GOP.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..ian-party/
Mrs. K8 @ 18
Pentagon: Iraq attacks at highest level
angie, egregious: Christy chose the photo; I never know what she or Jane will add, but it’s always the right thing.
tough questions for snowballs from today’s presser, I won’t bother to cite his prevaricating non-answers to this persistent questioner.
The President and his men will continue to prosecute this war because they have nothing personal at risk: not relatives, not friends, nothing. They will also continue to prosecute this war because it yields great personal bounty for themselves, their families, and their friends. Are there no Republicans left with a shred of decency who will call them out?
Gilliard had this one up last week. I thought it particularly astute:
Does not impeachment require a “super majority”?
The Weeklong version of “Take Out the Trash Friday” gets off to a bang today (not counting last Fridays AUSA recess appointment in Arkansas of a Rove minion). Props to Justin Rood of TPM Muckraker, for the news of the unveiling of the previously classified count of enemy attacks in Iraq.
That’s a question we’ll be asking all week.
The report is up now on defenselink.mil, but its a pdf that is taking forever to download on my poor dialup. According to Paul Turner, a TPM commenter who skimmed it already, “For a document presumably intended to put the situation in the best light, it’s grim.”
angie –
The Snow Job is really just another style of the same fundamental hack Scotty McMoonface was.
They both do the same exact tapdance routine, just with different flourishes.
[Speaking of which, I wonder what ol’ McMoonface is up to these days? And if there’s any chance he’ll be dragged back into legal quandaries dating back to his WH tapdancing days…]
Barr is a bimbo. I think.
Great framing (from Thomas Jefferson, no less!) in Sophist’s link: impeachment’s not the constitutional crisis; impeachment’s the cure for the constitutional crisis.
Is Panetta the guy who was Holy Joe’s BFF during the last election?
If yes, then obviously, the guy is an idiot!
Let’s stop calling it a “surge.” A surge is a sudden large increase that is temprorary in nature. This is not a surge, it is an escalation.
Once these troops are in, they will not come out until the armed forces are completely broken, which Bush hopes will be after his term is up. Then he can blame someone else for it. A desperate, drunken gambler will always go for one more hand or throw of the dice to recover his losses, until he is not only broke but has no credit left as well.
Rather than face that defeat Bush will claim that “progress is being made” and the initial surge was not quite enough and what we need is one more surge, a bigger surge, “one last shot.” Do you imagine Bush cares about the cost or where the troops come from? Do you think it impossible that he can find some General who is looking for a fourth star and will manage to manipulate things so that his wishes can be granted?
I notice today and for the last several days, the talking points for all commentators, even those who had disagreed strongly with the way the war was being waged, that
1 disaster if we pull out
2 Saudia Arabia and other countries like Jordan do not want us to leave (maybe that is what Baker was telling them – please ask us to stay)
3 if we leave THEN the whole area breaks out into civil war,
4 So we can’t leave. SO THERE
it is distressing how they spend the lives of Americans.
One of the issues I wanted to explore with this post was whether the media are doing a better job, asking better questions, bringing in new voices who were right before — what I see is a little of each, but not enough. Angie at 24 shows the WH press corp is pursuing this better, but the WH Press Secretary just keep shoveling Snow.
And somehow, someone from the American Enterprise Institute or other neocon “think tank” manages to get on every show. It’s relentless. How do we counteract that?
GrandmaJ @ 33
They just showed the faces and names of 20 dead soldiers and marines on the Newshour. They release them after the families have been notified.
We are way beyond tragic.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
I don’t know (and defer to other folks here to tell us), but I think Georgie would never let it come to a vote. He would resign first, just like that cowardly, paranoid Nixon did.
I also think that Georgie is suffering from a real, organic ailment, something neurological, brain-related anyway. JMO. So it wouldn’t come as a total shock to me if he had to step down — the pressure will do him in.
Swopa says:
Robert Gates assumed the helm at the Pentagon on Monday, warning in his first public remarks as defense secretary that failure in Iraq would be a “calamity” that would haunt the United States for years.
And asks:
But did anyone bother to point out to Gates that our president’s policies — you know, the ones we’ve followed regarding Iraq for the past four years — might play some role in why we’re at the brink of a calamity?
Isn’t committing more troops to those same policies simply going to make the calamity worse? Isn’t it just a way of, to use a previously celebrated phrase by Lounsbury, “shoving your own hands into a bloody meat-grinder because the meat grinder is so fucking important”?
I just heard that 9 more troops were killed today. Why do they continue to hold the Bush warriors in reserve?
Scarecrow @ 34
Timmeh had who on yesterday? Newt, Brookes and Freidman.
That is an answer in and of itself.
JB3’s intent was for Junja to say, “Yes Sir, rightaway sir” to all 79 recommendations. B/H-ISG is in a terrible quandary now that the neocons have Junja’s ear again. As long as Cheney, McCain, Lieberman, Kristol, et al., have sway over Junja, he’ll go on: coming up with new slogans and recycled victory speeches.
Betcha W’s waiting on Cheney’s false-flag operation in the Straits of Hormuz to provide him with his Gulf of Tonkin. He’ll go running to the Congress for re-authorization after something horrible happens to our forward-staged Navy.
This ain’t gonna happen, but I’ll keep on sayin’ it:
Troops
Home
NOW
heeere’s Helen from today’s briefing:
Oklahoma kiddo @ 29
One thing I do respect about Barr is his unreserved (long-time) support of the ACLU.
The same year that Seymour Hersh gave that amazing (and scary) speech at the annual ACLU conference/dinner, Barr gave a speech as well, which I caught on C-Span. It was great! Surprised the heck out of me. He’s VERY VERY critical of the constitutional power grab of this administration.
Scarecrow, I don’t think we can counteract it on the blogs. I think it’ll have to happen in the streets.
Scarecrow @ 34
There is not enough booking of representatives of progressive think tanks. In fact there are not that many progressive think tanks to begin with, which would require more money than is available from progressive donor bases. We need to build up this sort of infrastructure before we will see more liberals as talking heads.
This may be what Cheney holds over W’s head when he opens his tiny little mind to possibilities bad for Halliburton:
Scarecrow @ 34
Scarecrow –
[This is a great post, BTW! It’s good to try to have a serious discussion of what we should be doing next.]
I think one of the things we have to do is keep inundating the corporate fascist “news” organizations with complaints, non-stop. And even step up the flooding of their in-boxes.
It may seem like it’s fruitless, but I don’t think so. Every incremental increase of resistance to propaganda is important. Eventually the dam will be burst — I believe that.
And we have to go after media ownership, but that will be one hell of a tricky battle, and I would want to hear from others who have insight and experience in the matter of fighting corporate communications as to how best to fight that very long-term war for control of the information stream.
Scarecrow @ 34
This pentagon report is a great place to start. The charts on p 22 are damning, showing the escalation of the violence, despite Dubya’s best decidering. Surveys of Iraqis over how safe they feel in their neighborhoods, how likely they view civil war, how confident they are that the Iraqi government can protect them, etc. all show the same thing – if victory is just around the corner, its a damn loooonnnnngggg block.
This report contains a fair amount of hard data – numbers, not vague feelings – with assumptions and definitions attached. It comes from the Pentagon, not some leftwing 527.
I’ve only skimmed it, but I can see why they put this out with the pre-Xmas trash today. This needs to be read, digested, and then specific questions need to be brought to Tony Snow. Read him the relevant portions, and see what he says.
The problem for me regarding the MSM is they are corporations. “Corporation” and “objectivity” are concepts that for me do not seem to coincide. Corporations like money for shareholders and maintenance of status-quo. I would rather hazard a guess that most people at the top of MSM and major shareholders are Republican. These types are not going to vote against their own money grubbing self interests.
Marine officer killed in Iraq had been escorting Ollie North.
Does this mean he was getting out of the Green Zone, unlike most other correspondents?
Mrs. K8 @ 43
Yeah. Go figure. A little good in all of us?
Bush’s motivations at this point are purely psychological. He is TERRIFIED at the prospect of appearing a failure — not to the world, the American people, or even history — but in the eyes of his DAD. He is desperate to avoid that and Cheney assures him he can shoot his way out of this mess. The American and Iraq dead that will pave the path to his person redemption are irrelevant.
our first job isn’t to convince the administration of anything. our first job is to convince our Ds and principled Rs in congress to do the right thing…
1. control the purse strings – not one cent for continued iraq war/occupation while fully funding the withdrawal, not one cent for warrantless wiretapping, not one cent for torture/rendition/indefinate detention, …
2. investigation and impeachment from the bottom up. impeachment isn’t pardonable and i never want to see these crooks in government again – just look at the damage people like elliot abrams are still doing (h/t angie and mary and john dean).
and that’s just for starters…
TeddySanFran @ 43
Interesting theory teddy, which raises a good point. Why not cede the think tank high ground where wingnut welfare has us outclassed in funding and take this particular fight into the “streets” of teh Internets toobz? What I mean to say is, why not think of places like DKos and FDL as our version of think tanks, which is in reality the function that they serve.
Put Christy and Jane on cable more often and we’d articulate the progressive positions much better. Next question is how to make that happen? This is the next area of growth we all should be thinking about – how to grow the audience here at home to get regular folks reading these pages we love?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 50
Actually, Barr has done a good deal of speaking out. I remember hearing him on several AirAmerica shows a while back and he really surprised me. Also saw him on several teevee shows at the time. I can’t quite remember what the presenting issue was but he was livid about what the admin. is doing to the Constitution. I don’t hate him nearly as much as I did.
OK Kiddo –
Yes, a little good in all of us.
But much more important, I think, is the notion that we can find allies on particular issues (and this fucking “unitary executive” a.k.a. King George Imperium abomination is perhaps the most important issue) in what we would normally think of as “unlikely places.”
We need to work together with those who respect constitutional limits on the executive branch, even if we find the notions of some of these people otherwise distasteful.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 45
What is needed is a dismantling of the Corporate controlled and owned media before we will see progressives, who often do not support the corporatist way, be given equal footing in the national news. The news needs to be spun off and isolated from corporations, and government administrations. Good luck!
egregious @
17
Not now, thanks. I don’t know if I’m ready to write about them yet. I’ve been thinking about those guys, though.
C-SPAN put Flynt Leverett’s talk up on their web site, but for some reason, the program won’t run on RealPlayer.
Try to get it to run by going to:
http://www.cspan.org/videoarch…..veDays=100
scarecrow, another great post. I don’t watch the shows anymore, it’s too depressing. How well represented is the Brookings Institute (Institution?) the closest thing we have to a progressive think tank?
I admit i haven’t read through the comments yet, so this may be answered already.
Blair makes one last push in Middle East with Palestinian funding plan
PM proposes bypassing Hamas with aid to Abbas
MP warns against funding sides in coming civil war
http://www.guardian.co.uk/isra…..20,00.html
Ed*ard Teller @ 58
if c-span doesn’t work for you, steve has also put up links to newamerica’s audio (downloadable mp3) and video.
TeddySanFran @
4
Preach brother, first Cheney, then get some caretaker, then Bush.
and then I got to Fini’s post where he says what I erased. The internets, the blogosphere, is one big, semi-coordinated think tank. The structure is in place, we just need to add water, feed and stir.
OT– Milton Beardman (fmr CIA) puts the onus on Russia’s invasion for the creation of AQ and the million and half dead and destruction of the country.
he says:
CIA armed the Afghan people to fight the USSR.
America caused the failed state of Afghanistan by walking away from the people and the country and much more…
(on MSNBC)
ET– the talk by Flynt is well worth watching– we caught it 10 minutes in today b/c of snow’s bloviating.
Mrs. K8 @ 56
Actually Libertarians on some things, are really not that removed from Liberals and Progressives. I’ll take all the help I can get. (((; Merry Christmas! ;)))
Wow. I’m gonna forward this to my dumb@ss step-son.
selise @ 52
Yes, selise, yes!
Your comment is important. We can never convince the delusional administration of doing anything even remotely like “the right thing.”
I like John Dean’s suggestion that we impeach those lower down on the executive totem pole — He says we should go for the low-hanging fruit FIRST. It’s an interesting approach and I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and would love to hear from other Firepups about what y’all think of it.
Just the thought of impeaching someone like Condi Rice sounds wonderful to me. I would stand up and cheer if Eliot Abrams could be made an example of, too.
FighttheFuture @ 56
Yeah thats realistic, the corporate media is just gonna spin off their news operations which are very profitable for them any day now. Unless of course you’re advocating some sort of socialist nationalization process that will wrench the news media away from their owners, which of course would NEVER go wrong, right?
The system as it is currently run sucks, yes, but if you provide options to these folks for progressive voices in enough numbers to combat the right wing you will see a major shift in coverage toward our voices. Right now these talking head bookers are inundated with biographies from thousands of right wing talking heads and hundreds of progressives. It is simply easier to book a right wing face than a left wing face because there are many more places to go to for “experts” on the right than on the left. We fix that by putting forward our own experts in greater numbers than we currently do.
absolutely selise @ 52 and K8 @ 66.
OK Kiddo –
Thank you.
{{{…sending Christmas hugs (and prayers for blessings) in your and your family’s direction…}}}
Great to start with Rice, Cheney, but Abrams may not be impeachable since his position didn’t require Congressional confirmation (special assistant for killing browns).
TSF — I don’t know what it means anymore to take to the streets. But it may come to that.
I think Bloggers can help change the conversation, change the questions being asked, and change how the media look at the choices.
Right after the election, the media was all over Pelosi to deny impeachment was on the table. She had to say yes, and most of us agreed that was expedient at the time. But things continue to move quickly, and the ISG report and the very public debate about whether to send more troops, and if so, for what, wasn’t happening before. As Peterr notes, there’s new damaging information, like the attacks report, that keeps driving down the President’s support and changing the public’s view.
CNN reports tonight it’s at a new low. Wolf is laying it on tonight.
So what happens when the President’s numbers are collapsing, the news is awful, and the Bush people can only talk about sending more troops — while the country is moving in the opposite direction. There’s a huge disconnect going on between the public’s perceptions and the Administration’s plans/policies — so I think things that were “off the table” for political expediency reasons only a month ago, can now become legitimate topics. And once that discussion starts, I think it could move very fast and we could be surprised at how ready the public is to confront this.
Rumsfeld, although out of office now, should probably also be impeached to keep Gates on the right path….
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
As the token Libertarian amongst you I can say we share much more in common than you realize ;)
1,366 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Citizen Scarecrow and the Firepup Patriots:
Is anyone else out there gettin’ the feeling that things are spinning rapidly out of control inside the high councils? I think that the unraveling of this administration is speeding up so fast that the new Congress may be faced with a fait accompli when the curtain goes up in January.
KEEP THE FAITH WITH THE KIDS IN THE DESERT, GOD IS WATCHIN’!!!
Hey there, Fini!!!
Real Liberty is a Good Thing.
(I disagree with libertarianism on matters of oversight of corporate misdeeds in areas of the environment and medicine and safety, etc. etc., but those discussions can take place after something’s been done to save us from the TYRANTS.)
TeddySanFran @ 70
is impeachment limited to people in positions requiring congressional confirmation? here’s a relevant bit from john dean’s essay (linked above):
Onliners are changing the conversation, and I think we need mobilizing. This is a great time to flood the MSNBC and the CNN with complaints about who’s booked as guests — where are Feingold & Boxer? Can our country afford to wait these two or three weeks while Ditherer Decides? Why do we only hear from Gingrich, Brooks, and Friedman, for instance, on MTP?
.
Again, I think something’s in the works, behind the curtain. Who here wrote about reading newspapers from just before a major war broke out? It has that feel to it, to me.
Fini,
If Republicans want government to protect business from the people, and Democrats want to protect the people from business, what do Libertarians want?
NorskeFlamethrower @ 75
My impression, instincts, intuition, gut or whatever, is that there are plans being made, and we’re not going to like them.
I want the soldiers home from Iraq! Now! I want Bush and the others, feet held to the fire on this Iraq horror. No matter the political party. God damn it.
Mrs. K8 @ 74
I disagree with the Economic Libertarians on nearly every hairbrain idea they have. I am one of those Social Libertarians which are in rare numbers and constantly maligned along with the EconLibertarians. My particular style of libertarianism is a direct descendant of Classical Liberalism as last practiced by the Kennedy/Truman strain of Democrats.
digby:
(bold added)
I breathe a sigh of relief that the repig majority has now been retired. BUT, and this is a big BUT, we don’t know what the dems have planned to challenge the current policy. We are heading into crisis mode for this country as well as for Iraq. Part of me happily and anxiously awaits the dems taking charge. Part of me fears that they won’t be aggressive enough fast enough. How many of them are being bought off in back room deals? How many of them will have the courage it will take to turn the Titanic around.
I don’t know. I worry.
Scarecrow –
I agree with everything you say in #70 — and then add on top of THAT sundae of presidential woes the cherry and whipped cream of congressional investigations.
ANY investigations. I’m serious about what I said before, I think ALL roads (of investigation) lead to impeachment.
The bunker mentality will worsen at the WH to a degree we can’t imagine yet. They will dig in their heels.
But then I think the Republicans will do the same thing they did with Nixon — tell him he has to step down [with whatever “face-saving” (ha!) health excuse he needs to do that].
TeddySanFran @ 76
Teddy –
Yes! I mentioned earlier in the thread — now is NOT the time to stop flooding the inboxes of the corporate media –no, we have to step up the complaints.
I suggest phone calls, too, trying to reach real live persons to lodge our complaints.
As to the “feel” of things — this moment reminds me somewhat of the way many earlier 20th century European authors wrote about the “feel” of things at the turn of the 19th-20th century, on the eve of WWI.
Creepy.
The American whistleblower who was held prisoner in Iraq for several weeks has gotten under the radar of one egrchild who mostly resists my dire warnings of how far down this country has gone.
An American citizen. That got attention.
whoo boy:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..65,00.html
Where was Ted Kennedy on Elliot Abrams?
Helen Thomas (thanks Angie, above)
MR. SNOW: I think the biggest factor right now — if you take a look at what’s going on, who are they killing? They’re killing Iraqis, aren’t they? They are primarily killing Iraqis. And what they’re trying to do is to destroy hope and peace and democracy.
Q How do you know all that? I mean, why do you think people would want to do that? In the first place, they don’t like an occupation.
MR. SNOW: Could it be they’re suffused with hatred? Could it be that people, in fact, who are in unoccupied lands, who have been slaughtering, also do so because they hate people? The question is –
Q Do we hate them? Are we killing any of them?
MR. SNOW: Yes, we are.
You know, like they were killing each other before we went there. You know, all that hatred they had for hope and democracy. Back then, before all the hate we delivered over there, that came along with the occupation. We hate them, right?
Mommybrain @ 77
In general, most Libertarians of either the economic or social stripe will tell you we want government to uphold the Constitution, protect the rights of the people against government intrusion. What this means is the government should do no harm nor allow any harm to the people come to pass through any government action.
This includes (in my opinion) protecting the people against corporations who use government influence to bend rules in their favor so this is where I and the economic libertarians get into fights. On the other hand, this can be taken too far when government regulations begin to make it impossible for small businesses to comply with. I personally accept that a certain level of regulation by government is needed to protect the rights of all, but I also see where officials are corrupted into protecting the rights of some via this same process.
Tiny typo before we Spotlight:
This regime does not believe in America. The don’t accept => They
RevDeb @ 81
Me too, RevDeb. I pray that crisis brings out the best in key people — and that new people step forward to bring new leadership (in a GOOD way, not in a demogoguery sense).
Especially when you add to that mix the potential impending collapse of the economy.
Matt Damon is kicking ass on Hardball right now. Damn!
There is probably some way to legitimate way to discover (from credits) the production schedule of shows, who takes part in selecting guests and framing the issues presented. Those people at least can be targeted for mail campaigns, and where friendly media outlets exist, some exposure on the behind the scenes production influences in Neo-Con-ish MSM shows.
Drag the production narrative behind the camera into the open. Frequent Sourcewatch, Newshounds, PRWatch, and Media Matters and get involved in their netrootz campaigns.
Judith Miller, Lil’ Debbie, Novakula, the various MSM hacks who have been exposed to criticism have been compromised and dismissed because their own narrative agenda became so exposed.
From Sourcewatch — On Fox News Memos
There are other examples I am sure, but until the production ‘agenda’ on Neo-Con propaganda efforts are exposed its difficult to level criticism at talking-
air-heads whose job is to be articulate enough to air an issue superficially, and to provide bias-deniability by virtue of their obtuse vagary.Whenever I read stuff like this (pretty much every day) I find myself thinking about remedies, specifically impeachment. I’m familiar with what appears to be the FDL editorial line (such as it is)that impeachment should be the result of investigations and hearings, if the evidence warrants it. HAs anyone else read this pice by Poputonian on Hullabaloo;
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_12_0 1_digbysblog_archive.html#11656980668567 5392
or the piece that gave rise to it;
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/ar ticle/2937/
It occurs to me that we all, as Americans (and Green Cards-I could leave, but I don’t) will be held responsible by the international community, unless we send a very clear signal repudiating this amoral administration and its actions. Hamstringing BushCo for two years and then letting Drunkey Boy retire into brush-clearing dotage will not be sufficient in the eyes of the world.
Yes, it’s the same thing I posted yesterday! But it feels germane. Then I posted this;
My worry is; what if nothing happens? What if they are allowed to go quietly into the night, as Pinochet was? What message does that send to BushCo’s of the future-you won’t be held to account? How will history judge us? Will the US ever regain any credibility?
punaise @ 9
May I just say on behalf of thousands of us, how dear you are to us at fdl?
THANK YOU PUNAISE. You rock.
Bush believes in Pinochet style democracy.
-GSD
I don’t remember, but in Nixon’s time there did not exist a 90 percent saturation of airwaves in favor of right wing media propaganda. Rush Limbaugh is calling the Iraq Study Group – or ISG – the Iraq Surrender Group.
Sophist –
Good idea!
I wonder if someone like Keith O. can help us identify what’s going on.
Or maybe that would put him as a valuable voice at risk. There must be others behind the scenes who might be willing to give us “intelligence”, no?
Hmmm….
Scarecrow @ 71
i don’t watch enough tv to know if big changes are happening – RevDeb’s comment above seems to suggest not very big ones.
but, i do agree there is a disconnect – the proles are way ahead of the elite (media, political, foreign policy) on this. can the disconnect be sustained? i don’t know. but TSF may be on to something… most of the “deciders” really hate the idea of a loss of “order” among the proles. i don’t think i understood how much until i read the essays in “The Crisis of Democracy: Report on the Governability of Democracies to the Trilateral Commission“, 1975. if you can get your hands on a copy, see especially samuel huntington’s essay.
bg @ 86– and here’s proof that snow was lying right there!
http://www.estripes.com/articl…..icle=42275
Mrs. K8 — I know Christy did a good post a few weeks back on how investigations must precede impeachment, and from a due process standpoint, I agree with her legal instincts. But I see this as much a politial process as a legal one, and politics is a lot about public perceptions and public emotions — including anger, frustration, disgust. Those emotions are running even higher now than they were on November 7.
I agree investigations will compile more reasons to support removing this group from office. But I doubt we’ll find anything more serious than lying the country into an unnecessary and foolhardy war.
I also remember the Glenn Greenwald posts complaining about the arugments that we needed to investigate the domestic warrantless spying before even thinking about censure. Glenn argued that we already know all the facts that are relevant to determining whether the President is violating FISA.
Limbaugh is a pimple on a fleas ass wrt being a man.
Marine Officer Who Died In Iraq Had Been Escorting FOX’s Oliver North and ‘Newsweek’ Journalist
By Joe Strupp
Published: December 18, 2006 4:55 PM ET
NEW YORK Marine Maj. Megan McClung, a public affairs officer who became the highest-ranking woman killed in Iraq when she died two weeks ago, had been escorting Oliver North and a FOX News crew through Ramadi just moments before a roadside bomb took her life, a military spokesman told E&P on Monday.
These people, North, Negreponte, Poindexter, Baker etc., are insidious.
angie @
87
Damn you Angie, why not highlight a story about a school in Kirkuk being painted a nice comforting shade of fuschia?
-GSD
(la mere egregious! you’re too kind….)
Mrs K8 says
As to the “feel” of things — this moment reminds me somewhat of the way many earlier 20th century European authors wrote about the “feel” of things at the turn of the 19th-20th century, on the eve of WWI.
Creepy.
Our “Edwardian Summer” was the period from the fall of the Berlin Wall to 9/11, IMO.
TeddySanFran @ 77
I get the same feeling. And on your first point, which i agree with, we also need to ask why they keep inviting back people who got everything wrong. If they have to be there, why aren’t the neocons asked about why they were wrong and why we should listen to them now.
selise @ 107
you’re welcome– I had to search many article to relocate that…it’s missing from many of the articles… wonder why?? Is it true, inflated or underestimated– will we ever know the truth?
Flynt Leverett should be asked to be on every program this weekend; but he won’t. I really wish that folks would tune into cspan and Amy Goodman and much, much more. If one watched the news today, you would just see the story about the poor hikers.
That is sensationalism, pure and simple.
angie @ 99
holy shit. thanks for the info and the link. wow.
I just got home from work and on the drive, I realized that sinking feeling I got after the ISG released its report was that junya’s persistent pathology (and apparentlly his only reason for living) is to continue to scream, “FU!” while flippng the double bird to his father with malice and forethought at every turn.
It just had to be that he would send more troops… what better way to tell Daddy just what he thinks?
Elliot Abrams cousin is Dan, GM at MSNBC and Dan’s father is Judy Miller’s lawyer.
Other than that we should be able to take this right to them
1,366 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Oklahoma kiddo:
“I want the soldiers home from Iraq! Now!”
I hear ya ,brother, I hear ya…I know exactly how much you righteously distrust politicians to do the right thing by the grunts in the trenches. Trust me, I was in Viet Nam for 13 months 1966-67 and spent the better part of the next 8 years workin’ the streets with the VVAW and student groups to get us the hell outta there…I know your frustration and you are right to distrust the profiteers and the paid assassins. But give yourself break and lean on others for a little hope…don’t let your anger poison your heart. Keep your anger close, focus it, nurture it and let it inform your actions. But remember the kids who are counting on us and lean on your brothers and sisters when the heat of your anger threatens your heart.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE BASTARDS AREN’T GUNNA GET AWAY WITH IT THIS TIME!!!
malcontent @ 92
cute & smart — my favorite flavors!
Scarecrow @ 105
Could be the subject of a great post that can be spotlit around the media. PLEASE?
Scarecrow @ 35
Frequent posts at fdl on the topic. Highlighted Spotlight campaigns to write to all major tv shows asking why they keep inviting these losers to speak. The people who were so wrong about the war in the first place, why do they get invited back now?
Why do we only hear from Gingrich, Brooks, and Friedman, for instance, on MTP?
That is what is known as a “douchebag trifecta”.
-GSD
egregious @
90
Looks like the mods got it. It’s fixed. Refresh.
angie @
108
Yeah, I saw Pletka. Arrogant.
PeteCO @
106
Our “Edwardian Summer” was the period from the fall of the Berlin Wall to 9/11, IMO.
I think the 250,000 Iraqis the USAF and Army claim to have killed in 1991 and the 500,000 Iraqis the UN claims died from malnutrition and waterborne diseases during the Clinton years would disagree with the “Edwardian Era Redux” concept…..
TeddySanFran @ 41
They could sink one of our own aircraft carriers. More war.
Oh look, the _____ did this to us, now we HAVE to go to war! with glee. Fuckers.
I hope to God I’m wrong.
Scarecrow @ 99
You know, it’s my fault that I’m not being clearer in my thinking here (I go tomorrow to a lymphedema specialist, and the anxiety is building, sorry).
It’s not even so much impeachment ITSELF I’m talking about, because as in Nixon’s case I don’t believe it would even come to that — the Republicans would force George off the stage first, I think.
And it’s not that I think investigations will bring out anything WORSE than lying us into a war. No.
I just think that unraveling ANY bit of their wrongdoing will lead inexorably back into the gory details of their lawlessness — and the cumulative drumbeat of detailed info on their corruption and deceit will bring the increasing level of PUBLIC DISGUST at the administration to an unbearable level.
The WH, meanwhile, will be digging their heels in — the DISGUST level will become a tidal wave in response to that.
I just think that at some point something will HAVE to give. It’s not like the public can go back to hearing a scandal, being shocked, and then forgetting about it again. It will become inexorable and unavoidable and unbearable.
God help us. (and for me personally, I have to pray in order to go to sleep these days)
Well, I hope you are as well, egr, but something tells me something’s up. Otherwise, why the wait until 2007 to announce The New Way Forward To Eternal Victory?
Who’s Pletka?
-GSD
Possible fdl post based on the Onion, that everything is Victory?
Limbaugh. Reminds me in a way of Tokyo Rose of WWII infamy.
On Keith, reruns of his best Special Comments. Starting now.
egregious @ 124
Yep. WOW.
oh poo, my new comment just replaced my previous comment.
my response to you, selise is now at 108.
GSD @
123
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danielle_Pletka
On Libertarianism -
A group has relocated to New Hampshire in hopes of changing government libertarian style. Free State Project. The guest speaker for their big event will be…. John Stossel.
I don’t like Stossel b/c he’s always making the case for big business and republicanism with the typical straw-man arguments tilted against the common man in favor of bootstraps and personal responsibility. Its your own fault your boss’s machine ripped your arm off. Sorry about your luck.
Current Libertarianism Free State style has been absorbed into a kind of Conservative republicanism with legal drugs, hookers and reproductive rights.
They say they oppose racism and discouraged racists from joining them in the move to New Hampshire. So that was good.
But paying Stossel to speak? That’s gross.
This administration, outside of their thirst for blood, and for use as political tools, has no liking whatsoever for people of color.
Off to see Keith now…
Keith seeking 4 mil. in salary (4x what he’s making now)
Great time to show highlights, huh?
GO KEITH!
RevDeb @ 132
he’s a fee agent, entering perhaps the prime of his career, in a market of one. priceless.
Give it to him– he’s certainly worth more that a 50 million dollar pitcher, for sure.
He speaks truth.
Worth much more than Katie and her $15 million a year, too.
(egad)
Rush Limbaugh avoided Viet Nam military service b/c he had a pilodinal cyst. (Those are located in one’s arse crack.)
looseheadprop mentioned late in comments last week a method of removal I am not familiar with. Some type of order resulting from something similar to a civil action against the president. Put another way – removal from office of the president, by the people, through the courts, without congress.
I sure wish other parts of the world would get busy with war crime charges. (and Geneva violations etc.)
I wish we would (in large numbers) hit the streets, it’s shameful that we don’t, imo.
Scarecrow is right about the power of the pen/blog/letter – see Time magazine. Now is an excellent time to reinforce such recognition.
I wish I shared NorskeFlamethrowers view, but falling apart? I don’t think so because they have so many yes men available to replace anyone who, you know, develop a conscience. Besides they really only had it together in terms of message, money and power grabbing.
RevDeb @ 114
Greenwald has been doing that about every other day. However, I am looking for a next topic . . .
Back in the day, when my Mom and I were writing our Senators begging them to Impeach Nixon, we wrote to Republicans too.
Some of them sent back really nasty letters, i.e. “American, love it or leave it, you Commie”. I don’t think that would be such a bad thing to do. We could always hang on to the answers we get to provide oppo-research for future candidates.
angie @ 108
Flynt Leverett was great today. wouldn’t he make sunday talking heads explode!
c-span, democracy now!, and pbs’s now are my first recommendations as alternatives to network or cable news.
hackworth @
135
His dad had the exact same problem, but seved as an infantyman in WWII.
Mrs. K8 — you were very clear; and I agree with your 121
Last week, I was driving in a spot in CA where I could only get one channel very clearly. Two hosts were hyperventilating on the war on Christmas and taking calls from outraged people around the country, so it must have been a manufactured show. The level of enmity, hatred, and demonizing of others reminded me of Rwanda radio before and during the slaughter of the Tutsis and the voice of Hitler coming out over the radio. The disembodied voices seem to drill themselves right in the brain.
So yes, the absolute first step must be some sort of re-regulation of the air waves. I could turn it off, but there was still the sense that all those words were polluting the beautiful Cal sunshine, roiling the atmosphere.
Scarecrow @ 135
We need more voices saying it and I don’t think his blog supports Spotlight, but I may be wrong on this.
So, why do you think people, including all of us, have not taken to the streets in the kind of numbers that we did just before the invasion of Iraq, or as we did during Vietnam?
Excuse my interruption, OT, but Keith Olbermann is doing a ‘end of year’ replay of all of his SPECIAL COMMENTS. Starting with one that he did at Ground Zero 5 years after 9/11 happened.
I am in tears already and next he is going to play the one that started the recent round of comments, one pointing directly at Rumsfeld.
It is bringing the tears back to me at how low this administration has been. I hope someday he gets all the recognition he truly deserves.
Ed*ard Teller @ 119
I think the 250,000 Iraqis the USAF and Army claim to have killed in 1991 and the 500,000 Iraqis the UN claims died from malnutrition and waterborne diseases during the Clinton years would disagree with the “Edwardian Era Redux” concept…..
“Our” meaning those of us who are fortunate enough to live in G7 countries, of course…
RevDeb @ 143
glenn is on partial blogging sabatical until jan 15 while he finishes his next book. i’m sure he wouldn’t mind if scarecrow picked up some of the slack! ;-)
RevDeb @ 143
SPOTLIGHT supports Glenn’s blog. Use this link, then past in the URL for the Greenwald post you want to send out.
Spotlight link for others
Take a look at this link and you’ll see all the blogs that Spotlight supports.
Oops, I see the Olberman special has already been mentioned. Knew it, knew it. The first segment really had me in tears.
I see I’m late to the party here . . .
Two things: The NYT editirial “Unfinished Business” is not Times select, so go ahead and click on the link if that kept you.
Two:
Answer (as the post wound up concluding): Impeachment. Put the political tactics and strategy considerations aside. It is the ONLY legal recourse the Constitution gives us. After all the debating is done, it’s a matter of justice, not politics.
hackworth @ 127
The Free State Project folks are controversial within the wider libertarian diaspora. Many libertarians think their project just simply won’t work and there is a lot of data to suggest this is correct. Many of the folks who moved there to be part of the project are economic libertarians who find the no income tax haven of New Hampshire ideal for their purposes.
John Stossel is to libertarianism what Rush Limbaugh is to conservatism. He is the loudest most obnoxious voice of a faction within the movement that embarrasses the shit out of people like me who have to explain to nice folks like you how embarrassing he is to some of us. His brand of libertarian philosophy is nowhere near my brand or any number of others.
If you would like to learn more about where I am coming from, check out Daily Kos for Kos’ pair of articles about Libertarian Democrats. He pretty much nailed my philosophy on the head with his arguments that libertarians should be courted into the Democratic Party. Thing is, I recruited myself back in a few years ago having left the Dems in the mid 90s when Clinton and Reno mishandled the Waco deal and went overzealous after Oklahoma City with their domestic antiterrorism legislation.
Published on Monday, December 18, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
Iraq is Vietnam-and You’d Better Believe It
by John Graham
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1218-23.htm
Hey Firedogs !
excellent post SCARECROW !!!
can I ask general question ?
If their plans are to add more troops and go in to Sadr City – why in the hell aren’t The Brass telling them – NO!
This is not friggin’ Normandy where a certain amount of casualties are a given, that at least we had a chance to accomplish military goals
there is zero chance of this ‘working’ – there are two million people to be faced in a block by block scenario that can only end in death to untold numbers of Americans/Iraqis, no military victory, and the alienation of those few left in country who support us
but please someone – strictly militarily this is lose-lose, where are the 9 retired generals who called Rummy out ?
I was pretty much being snarky in my past references to Paths of Glory, c’mon you guys, you don’t have to do this
and while we’re at it – Can someone please ask Secretary Gates to define “success”
oregondave @ 150
Answer (as the post wound up concluding): Impeachment. Put the political tactics and strategy considerations aside. It is the ONLY legal recourse the Constitution gives us. After all the debating is done, it’s a matter of justice, not politics.
oregondave: Thanks for checking the NYT link; I thought it was behind the wall, but guess not.
I think Keith is doing this several nights this week . . . he mentioned 12 special comments and he’s doing 4 tonight. He’s expressing the tip of the outrage iceberg that we are all sitting on at FDL.
Severely Off Topic -
What was the name of the website with the guy doing guerilla political advertising using stencils and home made signs? I have yet to turn it up using search.
Many thanks
If Iraq is the question, then, for me, Kucinich is the answer. No more money, now. We’ve all got congresspeople and they are as easy to email as posting on a blog. Email them and ask your friends to email them. No more money, bring the troops home now.
It isn’t about Bush’s “legacy” any longer. Now, it’s about us, the American people, our standing among the citizens of the world. Impeachment is the only way we can make ourselves clean.
Son of Liberty @ 156
freeway blogger, I’ll look for a link
Son of Liberty @ 154
That’s the Freewayblogger. http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com/
http://www.freewayblogger.com/
Son of Liberty @ 154
freewayblogger I think
Scarecrow @ 148
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 151
This thread on this topic over on Carpetbagger from yesterday was interesting;
http://www.thecarpetbaggerrepo…../9366.html
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 160
not to be confused with that new micro-brew: Fee Waybill Lager
I hope that KO is working up a holiday special comment soon
Why did the administration use our tax dollars for a high profile panel and make them hold their recommendations til after the election? Why is the President ignoring them now and why is he pretending to listen when he has never done so? How many more people should die and suffer? What is he waiting for before he moves “forward”?
More restful sleep with sugarplums dancing thru his head? Peace on earth in the bubble he occupies? More dead people so that he and his cronies can make more money and steal other people’s resources? More $8000 dresses for his wifey?
Why?
Found the comment I was refering to in my comment above:
Looseheadprop says:
December 14th, 2006 at 10:57 am *
rizbiz @ 80
OT (but sort of ‘on T’):
Is there any way to legally compell the Idiot to do what his employers (us) want him to do, short of impeachment?
It’s been a long time since 8th grade civics…
Thanks
Yes, it’s called an action for Mandamus.
The very first was Marbury vs. Madison
Condi will probably make millions on the lecture circuit after leaving the Bush administration. Yep. Life surely ain’t fair.
not “all of us”
am out now every day and have been for a month and a half at commuter choke point with my sign:
B R I N G – T H E M – H O M E – N O W !!!
S A V E – T H E I R – L I V E S – !!!
C A L L – O U R – S E N A T O R S – T O D A Y !!!
C A L L – J O H N – C A R T E R – T O D A Y !!!
and out in front of various church parking lots on Sundays
gone up from about a 60% to an 80% honk rate
sign has phone numbers, and I hand out Contact Your Congresscritter 411 cards to about 30%
via salon.com War Room:
Bush is a terrorists. A big one.
cbl @ 168
You are my new hero!
not sure how to express the sound effects that come to mind upon reading this:
What’s Rove up to?
punaise @ 170
You should have given us a spew alert first.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 166
I didn’t see any follow up discussion. looseheadprop, are you around?
RevDeb @ 174
sorry for the oversight…
I saw that on Carpetbagger yesterday and thought it was a great article. The proposed Liberaltarian alliance that Brink Lindsey from Cato advocates is intriguing and I am glad to see someone at that level wake up and discuss this seriously for a change. I do however, agree with the general consensus on the left that the libertarians’ proposal is not a sufficient compromise to entice the liberal world to enter into such an alliance.
I realized long ago the only way for libertarian principles to be taken seriously is to forge alliances on the left with liberals who are descendants of the classical liberal traditions that social libertarians are descended from as well. Call it a grand family reunion where the family being reunited is the family of the Founding Fathers of this nation. Economic issues are all that get in the way, but this is all moot if the country is run by dictators and totalitarians. Who is gonna trade with an American despot?
Economics can be worked out later, this alliance is needed NOW for the issues at hand that are the real problem. We are actively living under a police state and must begin rolling back the legislation rubber stamped into place by the totalitarians in the GOP. We must get ourselves untangled out of the Iraq mess and insure that we no longer engage in foreign misadventures. We must return the Rule of Law to its primacy. This is where the Liberaltarian Alliance can do some common good.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 173
He is still stuffing old friends into our Government stockings.
Recess appointments anyone?
Former Bush aide named to U.S. attorney post
Wouldn’t it be nice if just one politician in my Democratic Party would speak like Olbermann?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 177
Yes.
RevDeb @ 180
my dream. Call him a liar loud and long.
roar Leahy, Kennedy and Feingold, roar!
Does anyone know why Keith throws the wadded up paper at the camera to close the show?
There is a common factor involved that influences the media, the speakers chosen to appear, the war plans, the politician plans and policies, the Iran/Contra fugitives, the Plame/Niger investigation, Iran-Chalabi-Iraq…it’s an element of influence nobody will acknowledge.
meanwhile, chez kos:
blog swarm!
RevDeb @ 182
The recycle bin is behind the camera.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 170
you might enjoy my favorite t-shirt
Let’s start a national petition that implores the House Judiciary Committee to initiate an investigation into impeachment of President Bush.
The First Amendment to our Constitution is:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
RevDeb @ 182
He was asked that question once and if I remember he said to relieve tension and it feels
good…
I watched KO’s reruns, and I felt proud to be
an American again…
Bush will try but fail, and he will be impeached
Jack
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @
177
I could join that.
Scarecrow @ 183
Aha!
And here I thought it was because he wanted to shatter the traditional “frame of reference” between teevee and reality….hmmm. You can take the girl out of academe, but I guess you can’t take academe out of the girl.
If as Scarborough says now, that the President no longer cares what the public and generals say, then I ask; do we now have fascism here?
Mrs. K8 @ 190
I like your answer better.
Krogman @ 187
ianal however this might be a possibility.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 189
Since January 20th, 2001, yes.
oregondave @
175
Let us explore writs of mandamus in greater depth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writ_of_mandamus
I wish I had thought of this a week or two ago but its not too late to send Christmas cards to injured soldiers:
Walter Reed Hospital
6900 Georgia Ave. NW
Washington DC 20307
The good news is, we may suffer total defeat. It did the German’s a lot of good. If our boys are going to die, it might as well be for a good cause.
new thread
Laura Bush had skin cancer tumor removed
Knut Wicksell @ 197
I can’t imagine we could ever justify these deaths on the basis that our country needed to be taught a lesson. Seems a rather severe disconnect between those who suffer and those who have the power to decide and should be held responsible.
Thanks for a great discussion, folks. And the Olberman reruns were a treat.
Another great post, scarecrow. thanks!
P.S. Rev Deb was right, imo. Help Glenn out if it’s a topic tickling your pen :)
I think the best fitting description of Bush is sociopath.
It explains the dead certainty, the total lack of compassion, the smug superiority…
The question at hand here, however is impeachment.
IANACL, but AFAIK the test is High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
These require specific charges.
I keep looking for these , but the closest I can see would be the cavalier and self-serving handling of classified information.
He has lied, no doubt, but not to my knowledge under oath.
Much as I long to see this administration held accountable, the most likely real power will be congressional oversight and budget constraint.
Scarecrow @ 199
I want to avoid loss of life and suffering as much as possible. I work to make that happen, when possible. I think some of us, though, are numbed to the constant call to bear more than our fair share of responsibility.
The people voted to send a message to get the troops out ASAP. The elected leaders know this, the military knows this and the media knows this, or at least they should if they’re paying attention.
Now, any or all of those groups are in a position to directly influence events in ways that many of us can’t. It doesn’t justify any loss but the potential losses seem irrelevant to those in power.
Scarecrow – Do you all behind the curtain have any idea how many times a post is forwarded through spotlight? Just curious how much it is utilized.
Hey scarecrow,
You just earned an Atrios link!
TeddySanFran @ 78
That would be me.
I’d like to say, for the record, that Leon Panetta is a chump, a fool, a Judas, a feckless and reckless enabler of republicans who gets well paid for providing cover for the ongoing right wing extremist rebellion and who deserves to spend the rest of his life repairing levees in New Orleans with a shovel while wearing a chain on his leg. And that doesn’t even begin to touch his role in the Clinton white-house’s horribly shameful quavering surrender to the elves coup. Leon and Lee Hamilton and the rest of the “Democrats” for cowardice piss me off more than the neo-cons.
Scarecrow @
35
I think that at this point the only action left for thinking free people, is to take to the streets in mass. It was effective for us in 1970 but in this time that action will probably lead to a one way ticket to Gitmo or worse a KBR/Halliburton Camp in the U.S.
I weep for my once great country and I weep for the dead who died for no reason other than one man’s, and I use the phrase “man” lightly, one man’s ego.
As the people’s air waves are under control of only one party’s viewpoint I see no way to get the message to Mr. and Mrs. Joe Sixpack. Me thinks that we are doomed.
Rep-Elect Joe Sestak sounds like a Panetta acolyte in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&eurl=
Why am I not surprised? Democrats, just one wing of the War Party.
W cannot even count on his party to have his back anymore. He grows more and more lonely as he pushes further into the Big Muddy. If he keeps ignoring reality and public opinion, can anyone stop him? Will anyone try? And if not, what do the people do? Get drunk? Start fights in the subway? Go shopping? Write a poem?
If the war goes on as it is going, and the Commander in Chief won’t change direction and if the Congress, now in Opposition hands, does not force a change, will we face some sort of national crisis? To be resolved how?
The real tragedy of the situation is pretty clear now. Henry Kissinger once commented about Watergate that once the situation started, it could hardly have ended in any other way than it did. Nixon was simply doing what he had to do, based on who he was. The tragic flaw in his character was his downfall, and Kissinger saw it as practically inevitable. I think we have a similar situation with Bush. There is something in him which will make it impossible to pursue a path of sanity, impossible to listen to the collective will of the people. And this is much more serious than Watergate was. Now more than ever, we just need to try as a nation to figure out how he can be stopped. How can we marginalize him so that his views become less important to the course of events? It doesn’t seem appropriate any longer to hope anything about him. But how can we save the country, in spite of him? How can we forcibly take back all the power he has stolen from Congress and the people?