
ABC News obtained a copy of a simple slide presentation created by a US Captain serving in Anbar Province. ABC explains that Captain Travis Patriquin "had fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. A gifted officer, he spoke numerous languages, including Arabic." In his stick-figure presentation, featuring "Joe" the American soldier and various Iraqi people, Captain Patriquin tried to explain to other officers what US forces needed to do to restore order in that region.
In a military known for its sleep-inducing, graphically dizzying PowerPoint presentations, the young captain's presentation, which has been unofficially circulating through the ranks, stands out. Using stick figures and simple language, it articulates the same goal as the president's in Iraq.
If you go to the link and find Click here for Patriquin's presentation, you can pull up the presentation, "How to Win in Al Anbar," and then walk through each of the 18 slides. Make sure you watch them in order.
Got the picture? The Captain's point seems to be that if we relied on the local Iraqis to decide their own affairs, including how to sort out the "bad Iraqis" from the "good Iraqis," conditions would be a lot better. That seems a helpful concept, but there are just two problems with this.
Look again at the slides with "Joe" in them. Then ask yourself: For this strategy to work, does Joe even need to be there?
The second, tragic problem is that this simple idea comes too late for nearly 3,000 American soldiers, and countless Iraqis. And the insight came too late for Captain Travis:
But Patriquin will not see victory in Iraq. He was killed by the same improvised explosive device that killed Maj. Megan McClung of the Marine Corps last Wednesday.
"How to Win in Al Anbar" may not make it to the desk of the president, but maybe it should.
So what does reach the president's desk? As Swopa discussed here, there's continued talk about "surging" 20,000 to 35,000 additional US troops, just the opposite of what Americans thought they voted for. Finally doing what he never did as Secretary of State, Colin Powell said publically on Face the Nation that the US was “losing” in Iraq and that the surge idea was misguided unless/until someone could define a coherent, achievable, and finite mission for those troops. Kinda an important question, no?
Powell also noted that we don’t have any “new” troops to surge; all we can do is delay the rotation out, and speed up the rotation in, of the limited numbers available. Powell was reinforcing the views of many in the Pentagon who fear the Army is breaking. But do the WH neocons whose hands are on the steering wheel listen to real soldiers who might actually know what they’re talking about? Probably not if the main co-driver is Dick Cheney, who said of his departing co-driver “Donald Rumsfeld is the finest Secretary of Defense this nation has ever had.” Given who’s driving the bus, one has to wonder why so many (including Jack Reed, Kerry, et al) think we need a bigger, faster bus. No one seems willing to point out the obvious: the drivers are reckless and need to lose their licenses.
Beyond that, there's the debate conducted via Whispers and Why Nots, summarized in this morning's New York Times article by Helene Cooper. In one corner, we have the "diplomatic and reasoned" position of Secretary of State Rice:
As President Bush and his deputies chew over whether there’s a Hail Mary pass to salvage Iraq, it has become increasingly clear that the president will probably throw the ball toward his secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. . . .
In this plan, America’s Sunni Arab allies would press centrist Iraqi Sunnis to support a moderate Shiite government. Outside Baghdad, Sunni leaders would be left alone to run Sunni towns. Radical Shiites, no longer needed for the coalition that keeps the national government afloat, would be marginalized. So would Iran and Syria. To buy off the Sunni Arab countries, the United States would push forward on a comprehensive peace plan in Israel and the Palestinian territories.
And in the other, darker corner, we have the "Darwinian Principle" applied to foreign policy, coming from unknown persons in the Vice President's office:
The Darwin Principle, Beltway version, basically says that Washington should stop trying to get Sunnis and Shiites to get along and instead just back the Shiites, since there are more of them anyway and they’re likely to win in a fight to the death. After all, the proposal goes, Iraq is 65 percent Shiite and only 20 percent Sunni.Sorry, Sunnis.
But not to worry, there's a good reason to apply Darwin to Iraq, but it's only whispered, for obvious reasons:
Darwin? Try Machiavelli. An even more far-fetched offshoot of the Darwin Principle is floating around, which some hawks have tossed out in meetings, although not seriously, one administration official said. It holds that America could actually hurt Iran by backing Iraq’s Shiites; that could deepen the Shiite-Sunni split and eventually lead to a regional Shiite-Sunni war. And in that, the Shiites — and Iran — lose because, while there are more Shiites than Sunnis in Iraq and Iran, there are more Sunnis than Shiites almost everywhere else.Wow.
Wow, indeed.



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ROOTZ!
Why don’t we leave Iraq to the Iraqi’s?
We like to call it “democracy by genocide” it is all the rage amongst the intellengentisa.
-GSD
Good evening folks. Sorry I missed the Salon. Looks like there was a lively discussion of the geographic dispersion of ignorance. Hope everyone survives.
Yay, more scarecrow !
Oh yeah, it looks like the mysterious Jamail Hussein, the police officer who was the source for the much questioned(by the righty bloggoputzes)”Sunnis on fire” horror story has been located and looks like lots of putzes are gonna have to dial back their lies.
-GSD
Scarecrow @
4
Yeah, we’re fine. Just a bit of painting with an overly-wide brush, I think.
Scarecrow @
4
You sayin’ I’m stoopid?
GSD — I missed that; they found the original source? What about the question of whether he could have known what was happening in another part of the city? Is that resolved? And is MM still going?
I didn’t think this administration subscribed to Darwin’s theories.
GSD @
6
Dial back their lies? They don’t do that. (Just like they don’t do windows.) They’ll just stay the course somehow. This is why they love Little Boots. Same modus operandi. Proud of their refusal to face reality. “We create our OWN reality…”
TeddySanFran — when I useta live in the Bay Area, and later in Sacramento, one of my favorite things to do this time of year was to go hear Chanticleer. Are they still around?
PeteCO @ 10
Watch what they do, not what they teach.
Ten points to the first reporter to ask Colin Powell why he lied to the entire world at the UN and when he is going to publicly apologize to Valerie Wilson for failing to use his influence to protect her and the country.
What an apparatchik.
PeteCO @ 10
Not when applied to the scientific world.
But “social Darwinism”? They LOVE that.
surge = escalation
80% solution = ethnic cleansing
(pass the word.)
Yeah, were all good. Better than the Sunnis. Just when ya think Bushplan can’t get any worse, it does.
More posts on ponies and candy please.
OT – :( 1 climber found dead on Mt. Hood
this Chanticleer?
Scarecrow @ 13
No sh!t.
TeddySanFran @ 16
I say again, no sh!t.
David Gregory needs to ask W at the next Press Avail: If the first day of shock and awe had taken out Saddam and his sons, as was planned, what would have been the role of the US Armed Forces? Now that the sons are dead and Saddam is convicted, what is the role of the US Armed Services? Why are we nation-building when you promised not to?
Also, why are no Arab translators available to go alongside these new training missions — just because you’ve kicked all the Arabists outta the services after finding out they’re gay?
… oh, and:
Troops
Home
NOW
Are there any sound reasons to keep American troops in Iraq? (sound reasons)
In Justice Wept post—
egregious @ 60
Still there. Possible to correct before we spotlight?
TeddySanFran @ 19
Yes. Best choral group in America. It’s best to hear them in a cathedral, where the sound resonates well.
oh, we are in serious poop.
more stupidity from ignorant leaders and the poor victims of their ignorance.
I want out of Iraq. I want the gulag that is Gaza stopped. I want leadership from my Democratic party’s presidential hopefuls.
So, we are starting WWIII in the Middle East.
I am SO proud.
America: beacon of ‘freedom’.
egregious @ 24
I assume this is referring to Christy’s morning thread on the Iraq legal system? I don’t have access. Perhaps Mods do?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 23
No.
I suppose there are some people somewhere who will say, “well because Saudi Arabia is threatening to fund the Sunnis if we pull out,” that that is somehow a sound reason.
I don’t buy it. That particular genie (the threat of regional war) will not go back in the bottle just because we keep our soldiers in the meat grinder we’re responsible for setting up.
So, my opinion is “no.”
Marion in Savannah @ 7
Yep.
Earlier today — or yesterday? — there was a threaded debate about Colin Powell. His Doctrine, and his statements today, are going to be useful to Democrats who don’t subscribe to either the McCain/Lieberman DeathPlan or TSF Option 4 (THN). I hope National Democrats invite Powell to testify in January, prior to W’s Big Speech on Iraq, so that his words to Schieffer today will have a wider audience.
I think they are -trying- to break the army, and will then leave the mess to the dems, including at that point the necessity of bringing back the draft. It’s all Clinton’s fault, the repubs are innocent.
TeddySanFran @ 22
Teddy SF – What great questions- am off to find David Gregory’s email in the hope he will actually see and be inspired to actually provoke an answer from W on one or more.
Mrs. K8 @ 30
That is the short answer,(I do so admire linguistic economy). And of course, you don’t need me to say it; the correct answer. ;)
It’s so sad about Powell-he could have been a great American.
But Patriquin will not see victory in Iraq. He was killed by the same improvised explosive device that killed Maj. Megan McClung of the Marine Corps last Wednesday.
This sucks. Here’s a guy who “got it” (including how badly the US has been screwing up for the first four years), distilled it down to its simplest elements, and communicated it to other people.
And he’s gone. That sucks.
egregious @ 28
Some argue WWIII has begun.
If Harry Reid were not caught up in this land scandal in Nevada, would he have caved?! Sorry for the snark, but, just sayin….
You’ll notice that (unless they are in the double digits) US casualty counts have all but disappeared from the nightly network newscasts while The Deciderer dithers.
Ty, npb!
I’m excited to see tonight’s WCoast rerun of MTP in case Timmeh asked any of my San Francisco Family Values questions of Newtie.
PeteCO @ 36
It seems he’s working hard to restore his honor. I’ve seen him on several shows recently, and he’s been quite outspoken. Juan Williams did an excellent interview of Powell on CPAN a couple of nights ago. He’s very personable. And then Juan carries that information over to the Fox News panels — remember his “Sometimes I just want to scream!” at Brit Hume?
Impeach Rice First !
TeddySanFran @ 43
okay!
p.lukasiak @ 37
Yes. Tragic. There seem to be a lot of our troops over there just trying to do the right thing, as best they can figure it out, under conditions and policies over which they have no control. Their leaders have let them down, and we still haven’t figured out how to bring those leaders to change.
I was at National airport last night picking up a lovely egr child, and while waiting saw the reunion of a returning vet with his family. It was intense. Beyond the usual joy was a palpable relief that he was still alive, with all 4 limbs, not blind, not brain damaged.
Can we justify what we are doing to a generation of vets?
AND FOR WHAT?
Permanent basesNot WMD,OIL, not freedom for the Iraqi people,money, not democracy,an Israel-friendly governmentstanding in the crossfire of a civil war?Why are we asking these beautiful young people to die and be maimed for life?
And WHY THE BLOODY HELL are we sending 20,000 – 40,000 MORE YOUNG PEOPLE over there to be shot at?
Other people’s children. Other people’s money. Someone else’s problem.
Scarecrow @
42
I would word that a little differently: Powell is working to restore the appearance of honor.
He lost his honor for good at My Lai.
JMO.
the “Machiavelli principle” makes removing our military from iraq even more urgent.
i don’t expect the cheney/bush administration to propose ending the war (or even scaling back) – but i do expect the D majority congress to put the brakes on. Reid is driving me crazy.
continuation of this war/occupation will need some more $ soon… how can we pressure our congresscritters to withhold spending – Ds shouldn’t be buying the war. even if one ignores the morality – pragmatically it makes no sense.
and then i read something like this:
and that’s ignoring the stupid bits from Will Marshall.
Selise — thanks for the link. I thought this was interesting, from that same post:
This is like the argument the US and France had over putting a UN force into Lebanon earlier this year. We wanted the force in there to continue the Israeli goal of disarming Hizbullah — i.e., as an extension of the Israeli Army under UN cover, while the Europeans wanted solid truce first and then UN forces as peacekeepers. Bush people don’t seem to like “peacekeepers.”
p.lukasiak @ 37
Read your second paragraph, then look at what happened to him. Accident?
Pat Tillman was aware of the larger issues. Friendly fire ‘accident’?
Not to quibble but he wasn’t “at” My Lai. Maybe you meant becuase of his role in the subsequent investigation?
Mrs. K8 @
47
Oklahoma kiddo @ 38
Family friend who was a diplomat for 50 years said the invasion of Iraq was a mistake that people would be talking about “for the next 500 years.”
Will we ever feel safe again?
Scarecrow @ 49
exactly.
and credit where credit is due, it was nice to see that biden is making sense… and so are a few other Ds, but not enough – yet.
Thinking of the Hail Mary Pass. Is this the same as the ‘last throws’?
And you felt safe when?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 53
Your family friend’s more optimistic than I, thinking there’ll be folks around to talk about this in 500 years!
raven @ 56
Well… I felt safer when Carter was president. And I realize ’safer’ is not the same as ’safe’. But some call me a “dreamer”. And I suppose I am.
Knut Wicksell @ 55
Same idea. I keep waiting for Glenn Greenwald to do a post on how many times the neocons (and Biden, too) have used the terms “one last chance” in the last three years.
a little bit OT… wrt iran – for folks who don’t want to read all 30 pages of the Flynt Leverett paper steve clemens has linked to, emptywheel has pulled and analyzed some critical bits. emptywheel’s conclusion:
What role is the US playing by staying? well since Iraqis believe that the “armed gunmen in police uniforms” who carry out kidnappings are SCIRI “special forces” and given today’s news of 30 Red Crescent aid workers kidnapped by such armed men – two days after the Baghdad Red Crescent office criticized US troops for breaking into their hq, burning their cars and otherwise harassing them, I’d say it’s more than time we stopped aiding the death squads … and get the hell out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6187357.stm
powell’s interview was educational and EXCELLANT
Mrs. K8 @ 30
Anybody else old enough to remember “the domino theory?” This has a remarkably similar stink to me.
Random shots…
Friedman actually committed journalism on MTP today, the gist of which was, with Cheney claiming Rumsfeld the greatest SecDef every, was Cheney lying or Bush a fool for firing the best ever?
Yoooh, Tommy. Try applying some logic like that a little more often. Perhaps the world isn’t flat.
The Army/Marines not having the wherewithal to mount effective operations going forward is driving me insane. It is emboldening NK, Iran, China, etc. because they know it will be years before we can repair our ground forces. (yoooh Bush – a good starting point for fixing the Army would be to bring them home.)
Imagine
Oklahoma kiddo @ 58
“…I’d say it’s more than time we stopped aiding the death squads … and get the hell out.”
Ah Siun… Music ta me ears.
Siun — assume you saw angie’s comment earlier today with excerpts from markfromireland on the kidnapping. The BBC link doesn’t mention the prior incident involving US troops, as mfi’s story did. Wonder if there is any other confirmation of that.
Also, Friedman didn’t utter a single FU. Brooks did it for him.
Marion in Savannah @ 63
Ed*ard Teller and I and probably others here spent time in one of those dominoes. The only way that theory ever worked was when Nixon went into Laos, Cambodia.
Scarecrow @ 67
actually, it was Siun who alerted us to the article and excerpted from mfi’s blog.
oops, hit enter too soon
powel’s interview was educational and EXCELLANT
He points out what I’ve said for the last couple of weeks, there is no 20,000 troops to send
I’ve been saying the democrats need to ask him where he’s getting these men from, and they need HIM to say “out of thin air, we are using what we have from everywhere to provide the reosurces for this surge”
then we MAKE IT CLEAR he is puttin our national security at risk, he is breaking the military and LAY THE BLAME SQUARELY AT HIS DOOR, so he can NEVER say it was the democrats that prevented him from a successfull campaign
and contrary to his past “strategy”, HE NEEDS TO SET THE GOAL BEFORE THE “PLAN’ IS OUT INTO MOTION
no “winging it”, no “send in the cavalry”, HE NEEDS TO HAVE A PLAN AND HE NEEDS TO TELL US WHAT SUCCESS WILL LOOK LIKE
then we need to decide if success is possible with the strategy he intends on experimenting with
we need to point out as much as possible that his plan is militarily moronic
TeddySanFran @
41
Teddy,
I tried watching the earlier rerun of this and they didn’t show it. They were doing live shots from Mt. Hood instead. Sad story. Mt. Hood and Timberline is one of my favorite places in the world and a very dangerous place for climbers no matter how experienced.
Meanwhile as CNN & MSNBC cover that to the nth degree, lots and lots of people continue to die in Iraq and Afghanistan . . . . but that’s no longer news, I guess.
In the Middle East we are literally playing with fire.
We were sorta in Laos way before the trickster took over.
Scarecrow @ 69
I’m gonna go out on a limb here;
I think if someone from the press frames the question correctly, pointing out what powel told us, there are no troops, the military is broken, pointing out that before the aggression he was informed he would need 400,000 troops to even hope to stabalize the insurgency, and pointing out that the enlisted men are serving four and five tours just to satisfy what is failing;
I believe if the question is framed correctly, he will hedge his claim that he would have attacked Iraq again.
like he was taken by surprised when the journalist asked him what Iraq had to do with al qaeda and he blurted out “nothing”
if he’ cought off guard, I acutally think he will temper his claim that this was not a mistake
watch congressional Dems line up and vote for Bush’s $100 billion supplemental appropriation to further his appalling military calamity.
They will say they have to ‘keep their powder dry’ for 2008.
For me, it will deepen the legitimacy crisis that woeful ‘opposition party’ has brought upon itself.
It will take some pretty fierce investigating, with severe repercussions for some important Cheneyites, for the national Donkeys to retain any legitimacy whatsoever, sweeping into control of Congress on an antiwar wave, then voting enough money to sustain the war for most of the rest of Shrubs term.
Maybe Obama will orate that he hopes these billions will be better managed than all the money squandered up until now?
But then he will vote for it.
this stuff won’t be forgotten.
Scarecrow – sorry … I got called away. The earlier incident is covered … and mentioned in the BBC link I sent … one sec and I’ll pass along the more extensive link.
here we go:
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RW…..038;cc=irq
Iraqi Red Crescent accuses U.S. forces of attacks
By Stephanie Nebehay
GENEVA, Dec 15 (Reuters) – The Iraqi Red Crescent accused U.S. forces on Friday of carrying out a spate of attacks on its offices over the last three years during operations to flush out suspected militants.
Jamal Al Karbouli, vice-president of the Iraqi Red Crescent, said that in the latest incident, U.S forces had occupied and nearly destroyed its Falluja office, held staff for hours, and burned two cars clearly marked with its neutral symbol.
The only Iraqi aid agency working in all 18 provinces, its 1,000 staff and 200,000 volunteers already face extremely difficult conditions because of the growing sectarian violence, he said.
“The main difficulties we are facing, first of all, is the presence of MNF, the multinational forces, which sometimes gives us a hard time. They are attacking some offices and detaining some volunteers,” Karbouli told a news conference in Geneva.
“The last example was about seven days ago in Falluja. We had our offices attacked by American forces, they detained the volunteers and staff more than two hours and they burned the cars and even the building which belonged to us,” he added.
Karbouli said U.S. forces had “attacked” its Baghdad headquarters a number of times since the overthrow of former President Saddam Hussein in 2003. In most of the incidents, the Americans claimed to have received “information”.
“Four to five times they have attacked the headquarters, they break doors and windows, just to see. And they didn’t find anything and they left,” he said.
“We don’t know the reason behind it, is it to scare us or decrease our work or another reason, as they mention, fear of terrorists? We don’t know.”
“The Iraqi Red Crescent is the only Iraqi body working all over Iraq. Because of this, they are suspicious,” Karbouli said.
there’s more at the link
Very Serious People brought us this Iraq abomination. We need to refrain from believing all the dire consequences they put forth regarding an immediate withdrawal. They have been fluently wrong. About. Every. Thing.
Tonight’s quiz: Who said this?
It’s about narcissism, which is why a mirror is absolutely perfect. So much of what is done on the web is people getting on there and writing their diaries as though everyone ought to care about every one’s inner turmoils. I mean it’s extraordinary..
doh– Siun just found that article again, too!
George Will, University High School, Urbana, IL.
Scarecrow @ 80
First thing:
Stories about the ‘listening tour’ point out that bush is hearing ‘lots of opinions’. NEVER ‘variety of opinions’ ‘wide range of opinions’ or ‘competing opinions’ ‘divergent opinions’…
Could be he’s got a ’surge’ of opinions. ALL THE SAME.
(when confronted with an ‘INsurgency’ the proper response would seemm to be an ‘OUTsurgency’. Sorry, a bit of black humor, not meant to demean the death and destruction. Even though the Deciderer amkes that decision daily…and sleeps well, so he says.)
—–
EPU’d – Oklahoma kiddo – your whole town population is less than half the size of my HS graduating class. And there were three other HS’s plus a Catholic school in this city.
No, the point is not bigger is better, just that I find that fact astounding, amazing…etc. American diverstiy @ work.
——-
I’m with you – troops. home. now.
Siun — thanks much. I haven’t seen that prior story anywhere on mainstream US media.
George is disturbed that anyone would have a point of view contrary to his own, or anyone would read anything not written by a rightard like himself.
Ending illusions
Leader
Monday December 18, 2006
The Guardian
It speaks volumes about the dire state of the Middle East that a foreign head of government visiting Iraq dare not stray beyond the heavily fortified “green zone” in central Baghdad and that the entire Gaza Strip – the centre of the region’s latest escalating crisis – is now strictly out of bounds on security grounds.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lead…..45,00.html
Og but he’s sooo frickin smart. I’d love to wipe that smirk of his face.
Oilfieldguy @ 85
raven @ 82
Yep. He was responding to the Time guy talking about why YOU are Persons of the Year. He just can’t handle the idea that people might actually be interested in reading someone other than him.
I was going to ask about this one, but it’s too obviously Rummy:
“We do know of certain knowledge that he [Osama Bin Laden] is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead.”
With all due respect, I think the loons are out of the bin. Somebody get a big net.
Does the WH have any shred of humanity? How many must perish to satisfy the “Decider”?
Powell:
US should begin to draw down troops by the middle of next year.
I cheated, I taped George this morning and just finished watching it when you posted. I’d still like to slap his happy ass!
Scarecrow @ 88
Is it narcissistic to want to be heard? To feel that your opinions matter and to be validated by like-minded people?
Is narcissism the antithesis of sheeple?
I think this guy dissed us and the entire post-modern world.
No soup for you!
Democrats. Republicans. Bring our people home. There is no compromise. There is no gray area.
well Scarecrow … US media isn’t big on covering our funding and training and support of death squads … after that ‘05 article on the El Salvador option, they kinda shut up about all that …
how much better to spout the “tribal, historic” etc bullshit that Iraqis are just not ready for civilized behavior like us good americans who spread democracy and chewing gum
Siun @ 94
yeppers.
Powell is a war criminal … covered up My Lai then got reinvented as the good guy then traded on that to sell the invasion of Iraq for his minders.
So now that he’s out of power and sees a chance to regain his “prestige” – suddenly he tells a little truth (not too much mind you) … does not make me celebrate
raven @ 82
Not at all surprising. The inside-the-Beltway crowd sincerely believes that it goes one way–they create wisdom, and we receive it. That’s the nature of received wisdom.
What rankles, I think, is that the blogs enable a lot of opinion. Some of it, sure, is wholly narcissistic. Some of it is abject drivel–low minds attempting to tackle lofty concepts.
But, it’s very egalitarian. Don’t even need a computer of your own to have a blog–just have to visit almost any library. That’s what’s put a burr in Will’s underwear–that there are people being heard who are at least his equal, and that they have the bad manners to speak plainly about not only the power elite, but about his often tortured logic, as well.
Sour grapes. Fuck him.
At least G.Will’s last sentence quoted there is true: “I mean, it’s extraordinary.”
Yep. Starting w/Vannevar Bush (no relation) thru Vint Cerf and all the other Silicon Valley visionaries.
http://www.ibiblio.org/pioneers/
——–
Imagine—>Maybe I’m Amazed.
Ugh… (Bush’s plan?)
I’m gonna be pushing my reps and senators to cut off funding … fund a withdrawal but that’s it. Seems about what the american people thought they voted on in November and it’s time to demand the elected ones follow our orders.
Siun @ 96
ditto and yep.
Boy, if that isn’t the most ignernt (a colloquism meant to underscore immense stupidity) thing I’ve ever read.
“He’s either here or there or alive or dead.”
Way to narrow it down, asshat!
Please don’t forget Rice.
Oilfieldguy @ 102
Well, that’s a wonderful way of avoiding having to say, “I don’t know,” something most of this administrations’ public figures don’t do at all well–taking their lead from their leader, of course.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 103
With extra soy sauce.
tryggth — nice Barnes link. I have a use for that.
If somebody in my office seriously suggested something like this, I’d fire him summarily. Cheney encourages it, being the morally bankrupt scum of the human species.
I have an annoying rightard commentator on my site. Can’t explain diddly to him, he drinks industrial strength kool-aide. Should I just haul off and ban him or let him run his stupid yap on my blog?
Oilfieldguy @ 108
I suppose the first thing to ask him is if he has his own blog. If he does, ask him why he’s pestering you when he has his own venue in which to shoot off his mouth.
Then whack `im. :)
montag @ 109
He does. I might’ve screwed up when I waltzed over there to crap in his nest. I dunno, sometimes he helps by making my arguments for me. Guess I’ll let him go until he just gets unbearable.
siun @100
Yes – I just emailed my rep (Honda) again to thank him for being right on Iraq. Now, before they come back from the break is the time for constituents to load up their intrays. If they each come back to a few thousand emails saying ‘no more money – Get out now’ it will embolden the rightous, buck up the timid and, maybe, give pause to the go-alongs.
Oilfieldguy @ 108
I refer you to Christy’s Friday posting, “Moments in Wingnut Idiocy, Part 873,” for a model of dealing with industrial-strength Kool-Aid drinkers. Ban him too, if you want, but make sure he knows that you’re banning him for being a troll and intellectually useless.
angie @ 101
Powell is a Bush family/Baker toady. I absolutely cannot stand this man.
The $100 billion will pass–no one wants to be seen as against the troops, and we all know Bush is going to keep them there regardless of whether or not Congress pays for it.
As for the “surge”, the closest we’ve gotten to serious support for this plan is McCain, and that’s really about it. It doesn’t seem to have any true military support. Harry Reid’s attitude seems to be “Take all the rope you need.”
The underlying problem is Bush, and a Democratic Congress can’t overcome him alone. A nonbinding vote to pull our troops out of Iraq will be simply ignored, and anything that’s passed as a “law” is subject to veto. The only way we’re leaving Iraq before 2009 is if Bush does something so outrageous that even the Republicans want him impeached and removed. Otherwise, we’re stuck.
Powell should be given the Henry Kissinger award for incredibility.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 115
Henry would never give it up…. :)
Frank @ 114
No, that is not correct. Occupying Iraq is paid for by congress. They can pass funds to be used only for the withdrawl. If Bush refuses it becomes a constitutional crisis, Supreme Court or impeachment or both.
Siun @ 96
Don’t forget his complicity in Iran-Contra. Possibly the only thing more objectionable than the number of war crimes and Constitutional violations Powell has participated in is the media’s insistence on portraying him as a “man” of “integrity.”
That’s because you’re smarter and have a longer attention span than the kind of human bath mat the Republicans depend on.
This sounds like a possibly good idea for provinces that are not mixed (Sunni and Shiia). This same method has actually caused many of the sectarian problems in other areas (think Mahdi Army and Badr Brigade). Making militia members policemen gives you a police force that has a primary loyalty to their tribal leader, vice the actual rule of law. It also gives you policemen that participate in sectarian violence instead of preventing it.
Anyway, this is a decent method for fighting insurgents and foreign fighters, but is NOT an acceptable method of ending sectarian violence.
I certainly don’t believe Clusterfuck when he says that the world as we know it will come to an end if the US leaves Iraq…
On the other hand- I suspect that those who think things will be just peachy over there if we leave are imbibing a massive dose of wishful thinking..
In short- I trust no one on this issue.
Iran-Contra? The Republicans traded weapons to the Iranian Shiites for American hostages in order to defeat President Carter and win the presidency for Reagan. Some legacy. Many of these American same Iran-Contra operatives are still operating. Where’s the justice here?
Hi everybody. I’ve been away, and probably will be for some time, but in light of the discussion about Colin Powell, I thought I’d mention the following post from Jonathan Schwarz at “A Tiny Revolution”. (IMHO, until Powell starts naming names, citing memos, referencing meetings, etc, his attempt to disentangle himself from the Bush cabal falls flat. He remains a member of the axis of weasels in my book.)
Here’s the link:
It’s Hard To Stop Lying When Your Name Is “Lyin’ Colin Powell”.
Makes you just want to pull the pillow over you head, huh RW?
Can someone tell me why in the HELL Harry Reid is supporting this call for a “surge” of troops into Iraq? We have already lost this war a long time ago, it’s primarily a civil war and a war against occupation, and we’re accomplishing NOTHING there, unless you consider 600,000+ dead Iraqis to be an accomplishment.
The owners of this blog used to be all humpty-dumpty and ecstatic about Harry Reid, how this “quiet fighter” would stand up to the White House bullshit. But now it seems that because he’s part of the establishment, he feels that he needs to advocate stupid ideas like a surge that will further harm US interests and cause more bloodshed.
Jane, or whoever owns this blog, can we PLEASE have a separate post dedicated to exposing how Harry Reid is essentially going to betray us, not to mention betray the mandate of the American people who put the Democrats into power so we could start withdrawing from this horrific war immediately? Please! This needs more attention, especially as the Dems are poised to become major movers and shakers soon.
Martini
Well no- it’s pretty academic for me- cause I won’t make the decision- but I keep following the discussion looking for bits that look to be solid–I will eventually come to a conclusion- but at this point I’m not sure.
rwcole @ 120
I hope nobody is seriously claiming that anything will be “just peachy.” The problem is that nothing is peachy, and nothing can be made peachy by any effort of the American armed forces.
We told them this was a stupid idea. We told them it would come to no good end. Now most of the low-grade morons who make up the American public have finally figured that out, but BushCo wants to keep pretending they can make diamonds out of shit.
Fuck ‘em all. We told them so. Our consciences are clean.
Colin Powell is a liar.
In a way, I am tempted to say let McCain/Cheney/Bush have their 30,000 troop “surge” (escalation) and watch them fall flat on their faces, only increasing the hostility toward and violence against U.S. forces, further eroding Congressional support, and costing McCain his precious nomination.
But then I think of the American troops and Iraqi citizens who would lose life or limb for this foolishness, and I realize there has to be a better answer.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 127
And ultimately a coward. Don’t give me the good soldier bullshit.
Does anyone know Senator Clinton’s views on Iraq? Or for that matter the Middle East in general?
Mike @ 124
Is Reid now advocating escalation? I had not heard that.
Mike – please provide a link to Reid’s position on the “surge” – I’m sure we’d like to talk about that.
RWCole – I have not seen anyone suggesting life will be peachy for Iraqis … perhaps ever again. The problem is that we, our troops, are actively involved in making it disastrous not better. Iraqis want us out …
Mike @ 124
Please read what Reid actually said:
A “two or three months” surge as “part of a program to get us out of there” is not Harry Reid sitting on Dubya’s lap. It is Harry Reid saying that additional troops may be required to cover a withdrawal, which is explicitly opposed to what Dubya is trying to do. Please, please, please, Firepups, we are intelligent and rational people here; we can get the context straight before we go off half-cocked.
Siun @ 132
I posted it in 134 above. Not what he claims it is.
rwcole @120
You’re right. Nobody can say w/ much certainty what will happen in Iraq whatever the US does. But what we can see is that our military, regardless of tactics, has not brought security or democracy or respect for the US or anything but misery to Iraq. The only people that Iraqi’s may take security help from are their neighbors and they won’t help unless we leave. So pull our troops out and if the Iraqi’s want, pay for Egyptian, Iranian, Syrian, and/or Jordainian troops to come in.
Harry– that is decidedly not why so many of us worked our butts off to give you and the dems control.
dammit.
Get the hell out of Iraq.
angie @ 137
That’s right!
What planet are you guys living on? It’s all over the news. Check out Reuters, among many other sources. Basically he’s saying that we should have a “short surge” of several months and then start withdrawing our troops by 2008 or something like that. Clearly this is extremely unacceptable. I expect better from Democrats. I think we need to expose Harry Reid (not saying he’s a bad guy, just that he’s wrong here) and apply some serious pressure via blogs and such until he changes his position.
Some links:
http://today.reuters.com/news/…..-newsOne-5
or just go to http://www.washingtonpost.com …
Link to Reid’s comments at Raw Story.
This piece of reasoning is NOT valid
“It was wrong and stupid to go into Iraq- so it is right and intelligent to leave asap..”
The conclusion MAY be true- but the premise doesn’t guarantee it.
neurophius @
128
I would like to see Bush and the last honest man fall on their faces again too, but I really don’t want to see our Army fail in this stupid mission. The danger of that should be obvious to the Decider, but it seems unlikely he has even thought of that.
Mike– I heard it on This Week and my head exploded, changed the channel and watched CBS and Charles Osgood…
John, over at Americablog has this take on the Reid comment. Fits what he actually said, we’ll see.
Mike – your tone is really unnecessary as is your bit about “the owners of this site” …
We’re quite open to discussing Reid or anything else but we don’t take kindly to that sort of approach.
Mike:
“What planet are you guys living on? It’s all over the news.”
I don’t think your tone is necessary. I have been busy today and logged on just a few minutes ago. I did not watch or listen to any media today. I had other things to do. Is that OK with you?
So let’s evaluate this situation calmly and discuss how best to respond.
jeffreyw @ 144
That’s closer to my reading as well. Reid is quite explicit in linking his two- to three-month surge to a planned withdrawal. I do not read this as a statement of support for Bush’s “last push.”
EvilDrPuma @ 134
Unfortunately, the logic of it escapes me. Reid should know that, based on Bush’s public statements, that such is not the purpose of sending more troops.
By now, it should be obvious to all, except perhaps for those lost in a mineshaft for the last six years, that removing all the troops is an admission that the venture was and is, in fact, misadventure, and Bush is simply not prepared to do any such thing.
Therefore, it seems to me that Reid is spinning a bit. He knows (or should) that this is not going to be how those troops are used, i.e., to further an end to US military involvement there. The evidence runs directly counter to the assumption he makes. I’d say that’s either spinning it, or is the result of a willing suspension of disbelief.
Sure, some people are saying this is Reid being cagey, giving Bush (and McCain) the rope required to hang themselves. But, if there’s any increase in military casualties, that backfires on Reid. He becomes responsible for advocating policy that he should reasonably know is ill-advised.
If it gets a lot more people killed, will it then be seen as a wise move, regardless of Reid’s presumptions now?
Cheers.
EvilDrPuma @ 147
I think others are using the terms “last push.” E.g., Barnes uses it in the link Tryggth gave us. But I have not heard Bush or the WH suggest that they’re into any “last push” approach; they’re in for whatever it takes and however long it takes.
From Americablog:
“This is interesting. At first I was a bit concerned that Reid was endorsing John McCain’s plan to increase troop levels by tens of thousands. More troops is not the answer. And letting McCain off the hook by endorsing his plan wouldn’t strike me as wise. But, Reid may not be endorsing McCain’s plan at all. He may be forcing Bush and McCain to endorse his.
Reid may be using the troop increase as a backdoor way of getting a firm commitment to end our combat engagement in Iraq by 2008. By giving our commanders on the ground what they want – if in fact they want more troops – Reid and the Democrats are seen as supporting our commanders rather than undercutting the war effort, and ultimately being blamed by the Republicans for losing the war. But at the same time, Reid is giving our generals, and our commander in chief, one last change to fix things. And if they don’t, we’re out of there – the public will know that Bush has lost this war, Harry Reid gave him a fair shot, and it was the Democrats that finally got our troops home safely.”
[emphasis added]
““It was wrong and stupid to go into Iraq- so it is right and intelligent to leave asap..”
The conclusion MAY be true- but the premise doesn’t guarantee it. “
This is not at all what I’m arguing. That we should leave Iraq is not just a moral necessity, but a practical one too. What we need to be doing is talking to Iran and Syria and getting the UN to prepare to resolve Sunni-Shia-Kurd disputes, because as long as we’re occupying the country I can absolutely guarantee you that these disputes will NOT be solved, because the government is widely seen to lack legitimacy.
Siun- I have the utmost respect for this blog, but this is an extremely pressing issue. I fear that some progressives might be tempted to go along with Reid’s idea because of who or what he is.
Now if Siun or anyone else would like to rebut my claims- please actually do so, rather than saying I lack respect for this blog. I have the utmost respect for this blog and for the serious discussion of ideas.
My claim is this (please if you reply just reply to this): any surge in troops will increase violence, increase the dependency of Iraqis on Americans, and make it that much harder to leave, regardless of whether we agree beforehand that we should. It will take a horrible situation and make it that much worse- and then do you honestly think any politician will have the resolve to ask for a withdrawal? This failed a long time ago, and our occupying of the country is not just morally wrong (not the basis of my argument) but practically wrong for all involved.
EvilDrPuma @ 147
That approach morphs to F.U.’s ….
I bet he said it right about 9:05 EST. Cause C.Wallace interrupted Teddy on FOX to breathlessly claim ‘BREAKINNG’ – ‘SEN. REID support sending 20k ore troops. What is your tesponse?” I was making b’fast – nly heard Teddy say, ‘Well, I respct Sen. Reid..” didn’t cathc the rest. It sucked; a bloody curveball…could have been Mudd asking why he wanted to be President way back when.
It will come back to haunt.
I’ve sent a question to see if we can get a clarification of what Reid’s position actually is – I’m sure we’ll update here when we get news.
That said, I personally would not support anything less than speedy withdrawal … and I’m pretty certain, what with the building of our monster Emerald City Embassy and permanent bases, W’s plan has no relationship to leaving … and remember that the ISG is talking about a draw down to 70,000 “advisors” – a rather meaningful word to anyone who remembers Vietnam.
I’m sorry if I offended anyone by my tone. But I think it’s very obvious that what Reid is doing here by advocating a surge- whatever qualifications he may make or whatever semantic distinctions you all wish to introduce- is purely covering the Democratic ass. He doesn’t want his party to be blamed for the war going wrong, which it already has a long time ago, but by doing this he will be making things incredibly worse.
I’ll repeat what needs to be done. We need to talk to Iran and Syria, get the UN to tackle the resolution of Sunni-Shia-Kurd disputes, and leave the country as soon as practicable. That means within 2 months or so, and that means most definitely NOT making it harder for us to leave by surging troops. Let’s be reasonable about the consequences of such an action, people.
I want to make it clear that I am in no way endorsing an escalation in Iraq, whether or not that is what Sen. Reid is calling for. I would like to get more information about what exactly he has in mind and why he thinks it would work to get us out.
Folks are welcome to continue this Iraq discussion here or . . .
you can carry it upstairs with TRex, heeeere’s TRex!
Scarecrow @ 149
Point taken. My interpretation is that Reid is trying to create an illusion of compromise. It is unlikely that Bush would agree to a troop increase contingent on a withdrawal, so Reid can then say, hey, we tried to meet you halfway and you didn’t want to play; tough luck for you. If Bush played along and then reneged and tried to continue his “whatever it takes” routine, Reid could then hang the whole damned thing around his neck. But Bush has never shown that level of subtlety; everything is always his way or no way. He’s much more likely to reject Reid’s proposal outright because “withdrawal” is a four-letter word in his mind.
Mike – I’m not asking about your “respect” for this blog … just that you engage the conversation in a more productive way.
And I gather you do not read us very carefully if you believe that we’re likely to support an increase of troops or go along, just coz Reid said so.
What “progressives” positions will be? I suspect as varied as the positions already under discussion here in this thread – from caution from for example RWC to pretty adamant out now and trial in the Hague from myself, Angie and Ok Kiddo (with apologies if I am misinterpreting anyone’s positions)
Clusterfuck invaded and picked up a ticking bag of shit- if ya put it down- it blows up and throws deadly shit all over creation- if you continue to hold it- it covers you with stench- and drains your blood a pint at a time.. NO ONE wants to take the bag of shit out of Clusterfuck’s hands- so he stands there holding it- trying to pretend he’s won a fuckin prize..
Tick, tick , tick.
rwcole @141
that is correct. It is not deductive, but life aint a sylogism. The best we can do is look at the history to this point to map a way forward. For me, I see nothing our continued presence contributes to peace in Iraq now or in the future. Just the opposite. We aren’t holding it together, we aren’t even keeping it apart. First it was the saddamists, the deadenders we were after. They were soon replaced by the foreign fighters, then Sadr’s madi army, and always just criminals in the mix. Armies are designed to fight wars in which they can identify an enemy. So far, our military has fought just about everybody in Iraq. They are not policeman (Hell, the policeman there aren’t policeman). There is nothing good we can do there except leave.
you nailed my position perfectly, Siun– thank you.
EvilDrPuma @ 157
Okay. I don’t assume Reid is trying to trick anyone. A couple more facts here: The top Generals in the Pentagon have been clearly signaling that they are not looking for any major increase in troops and certainly don’t want anything long-term, because the “Army is breaking.” Also, they’ve signaled that they don’t want to commit more troops until there is a clearly defined, achievable, and limited mission. Those are important conditions. Reid then says, “if the Generals ask,” which means he’s tapping into their conditions, which Bush I suspect is opposing. And Reid is futher saying, “this must be tied to a withdrawal” which is very different from McCain/Lieberman/Bush.
So I think we need to watch these exchanges play out, because Reid appears to be siding with the Generals and moving towards withdrawal, splitting the Generals off from Bush.
It’s pretty clear that the “surge” strategy is pure bullshit- an attempt to get credit for doing something different- by doing close to nothing at all.
It has been mentioned as a face saving first step to withdrawal- and that may be exactly what it is.
see Arianna’s right-on post on Reid and surges:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..36585.html
1,365 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
rwcole:
Brother Cole please, this is not a geopolitical “problem” to be worked analytically with variables that represent impacts on our “strategic interests”.
“…It is right and intelligent to leave asap…” not ONLY because “it was wrong and stupid to go into Iraq” but because it is right and our presence can not make things better for ANYone’s interests and our continued presence will only assure a regional war.
rw, for the first time in this tragic horror, we must accept the truth of our history and values and leave. No more rhetorical gymnastics, no more pseudo-realpolitik, we must leave the field and deal with the consequences of our imperial war-mongering. It is not fair to leave this mess to the innocent people who didn’t make it…but that certainly is no argument for staying.
As for Reid’s statement…I too think it’s rope offered to the criminal to tie himself up or jest hang himself outright. Politically it takes the “stabbed in the back” meme out of McCain’s playbook…it’s brilliant and puts the whole weight of events from now on in the fascists court.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T SHOOT YOUR OWN TROOPS!!!
“rw, for the first time in this tragic horror, we must accept the truth of our history and values and leave. No more rhetorical gymnastics, no more pseudo-realpolitik, we must leave the field and deal with the consequences of our imperial war-mongering. It is not fair to leave this mess to the innocent people who didn’t make it…but that certainly is no argument for staying.”
This is exactly right. But it is not just our responsibility to leave almost immediately- it is also our responsibility to be holding intense talks with Iraq’s neighbors and getting the UN to mediate in terms of resolving Sunni-Shia-Kurd disputes. If our leaders were at all genuine and had the least fucking concern for the actual Iraqis who they think they liberated, they would be talking to Iraq’s neighbors, one of which holds enormous control over Iraqi affairs and is vilified, like Syria, by us. America needs to re-learn how to conduct diplomacy, not just to regain any kind of moral influence or authority- but to begin to correct the huge injustice we have committed against the Iraqi people. Our agreeing to set a fixed timetable, very soon, to withdraw, is the only way to heal the political process in Iraq. A military solution simply is impossible at this point, and anyone who says otherwise (like Reid) I consider to be imperialistic and not at all progressive or realistic. How is it that former Republicans on the Iraq Study Group recommend talking to Iran and Syria, but the supposedly “progressive” Reid instead says he’s “OK” with sending in more troops temporarily? This reflects a political cancer eating away at the heart of American democracy- the cancer, that is, of imperialism.
EvilDrPuma @ 147
That’s exactly it.
Thing is, WE WILL NEED THE EXTRA TROOPS TO HELP US LEAVE WITH A MINIMUM OF HAVOC. If we don’t have them, the chances of us having to do a “fighting withdrawal” increase a great deal.
Trust me, we really, really, REALLY don’t want to have to do a fighting withdrawal. We would rack up more casualties in a month than in the past three-plus years.
Has anyone considered the last historical instance when a country “surged” it’s military like we are about to do in Iraq? In terms of a military surge, the Battle of the Bulge comes to mind and it hastened the fall of Hitler’s Germany. Sure, they gained some ground in the short term, but the loss of men, tanks, etc made the whole thing a Loser for the Germans. “Surge” as Powell said today is nothing more than speeding up the deployments that are planned and leaving those there, there without the relief they were expecting. From a National Security perspective, this “Surge” is an unmitigated disaster. What if we had a real crisis, instead of George Bush’s phony war? How long could the stripped fortifications in South Korea hold off the North? I don’t understand how the residents of WingNuttia can’t be afraid of China conquering Taiwan. If our military is broken, how in heck would we even raise a fuss if they decided to take that island? At this time, when folks on our side of the isle get into it with Wing Nuts, we should ask them what do we do if a real emergency (like China), comes our way, when our military has been ground under in Bush’s Quagmire!
It will take years to expand the force to the level they would need in Iraq and they’d have to re-introduce Conscription to get it. Then again, even another million troops can’t fix the mess Chimpy McClusterPhuck has made.
The ppt presentation is amazingly silly. There really wouldn’t be much reason for it to get to the president – other than making him feel good. It shows no understanding of what is happening in Iraq at all. If the author hadn’t been killed he would be an object of ridicule. I am so sorry for our country. I am so sorry for our troops caught in such a trap with idiots like this as leaders.
Don, it’s noble and all of you to feel bad for our troops, who volunteered to die for Bush’s follies, but maybe you can save a little bit of sympathy for the 600,000 dead Iraqis who most certainly did not? I still don’t understand how anyone can think that one human life has any more value than another- it’s absurd. (Not making that accusation of you Don, just pointing that out because I rarely see anyone asking realistically what is good for the Iraqis and what the Iraqis want, rather than what advances American interests. Funny because all these neocon leaders always say that they’re liberating or helping Iraqis, when in reality they couldn’t give a damn about them, judging by their tactics.)
Here’s a way to frame the issue that folks will understand. The ’surge’ could be called Task Force:Target Practice because that’s all that number of troops would provide to Iraq.
I believe this “surge” is intended purely to launch an assault on Sadr city, whether the rumoured assault on the Green Zone occurs over Christmas or not. This could be part of the price paid to the Saudis not to officially fund and arm the Sunnis. Even Powell commented yesterday that the numbers weren’t enough to bring Baghdad under control which leaves an assault against the Sadr militia as the only realistic option IMO.