Login HereGreat Music + Great Record Label = Great Hits
What a novel concept. I personally don't take this equation lightly. I'm not snooty about the charts. I love hearing great songs on Top 40 radio. Sadly, these days I feel lucky to just hear one. I know that there is great new music out there. I also know that most of it isn't getting to the masses.
Ahmet Ertegun who co-founded Atlantic Records in 1947 (with ten grand borrowed from his family dentist) died last night at the age of 83.
This cat knew how to get the goods to the masses. I had a blast going through I-Tunes with just some of the artists on Atlantic's stellar roster last night, especially the early R&B stuff. I bought a hell of a lot of songs, some of which are in The Spin playlist this week. "Oh yeah that one!...I love that song....so that's who did Jim Dandy" and on and on for hours.
There's a very good interview with Ertegun in Slate Magazine that you might want to check out:
Slate: What do you want for your legacy?
AE: I'd be happy if people said that I did a little bit to raise the dignity and recognition of the greatness of African-American music.
I'd love to hear the Spin You're In in the comments section
The Spin I'm In playlist: Puttin' On the Hits
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iTunes |
Napster |
AMG |
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I'll Wait For You |
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Swanee River Rock (Talkin' ‘Bout That River) |
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Jim Dandy |
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A Lover's Question |
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Don't Fight It |
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Sweets For My Sweet |
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Green Onions |
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Beyond The Sea |
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Rock Steady |
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Spotlight
FITZ!
Rumsfeld sux!!
Sparks!
Ertegun!
This man was a legend in the business and is responsible for singke handedly discovering more Rock n Roll Hall of Fame inductees than anyone else. He left an indelible mark on human history and will be remembered 500 years from now for his contributions to the world.
This is the first I’ve heard of his passing. That sucks, he did a lot of good work.
From the setup to the interview:
Gave me chills just to read through that list. Folks talk a lot about “the next big act” but reading that interview makes me wonder about “the next big producer.” What a loss.
Thanks, Donita!
A record label that would nurture talent over a long period of time. What a concept.
I always felt that the music industry lost it with the advent of compact discs. Not because the format was bad, but because the discs were cheaper than vinyl but could be sold for twice as much. Suddenly, the cash was pouring in like crazy because everybody was buying all their old records back at a much higher rate of return. A whole generation of music executives could wallow in cash without ever having to develop the A&R skills necessary to identify promising new sounds. Now, of course, that bubble has popped, and the folks in charge have no idea how to nurture artists who can genuninely attract buyers.
PeteCO @ 7
You’re beginning to see that more and more again with indie labels these days. It’s a proven concept, good to see a return to tried and true practices.
Donita!
ust woke up. Now, to read the post.
mercmesh @ 8
Mrs CO has a cousin who was a buyer for a regional chain of record stores in the 80’s & 90’s. From what he tells me, you’re correct. The amount of cash that was sloshing around at that time was unreal, and a lot of it went up people’s noses, rather than into developing new talent.
There is a theory that states history is made by the appearance of one extraordinary person at a critical point in time, rather than history being determined by momentous events (wars, natural disasters, revolutions, etc.).
Although this theory is primarily applied to politics (FDR, Ghandi, MLK), I think it is even more relevant to the arts (think Hendrix, Mozart, the Beatles).
Ahmet Ertegun clearly belongs on that list, as well.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 9
Who needs some fat bastard record exec when you’ve got the tubes? Pitchfork & broadband-reminds me of Factory & Rough Trade, almost thirty years ago.
I heard a snippet about this on NPR this morning. Evidently Ahmet Ertegun’s dad was a diplomat at the Turkish embassy.
Ahmet would have concerts there so the black musicians could play with the white ones back in the day, as it wasn’t allowed here in the Good ol’ US of A.
Ahmet had to choose early on which path he’d take professionally. Sounds like he made the right choice there.
(OT aside to Fini: kirk murphy @ 141 in Late Nite last night)
R.I.P.
What does “A&R” mean?
T- @ 17
Yeah. Thanks, T.
PeteCO @ 13
I agree in theory, but in practice it still makes sense for artists to hook up with an indie or major label for a few reasons. Marketing support, CD distro still exists, radio promotion and don’t forget MTV Networks still play videos on some of their channels.
Having said all that, an indie artist trying to do it yourself has a very good chance of making money from even a low volume selling project these days using nothing but online promotion and available innovative distributors like CDBaby or Blue Collar Distro. I have friends who sell enough via their MySpace and web efforts they were able to afford to quit their dayjobs to tour more.
Off key, but can someone tell me the name of the pyschological grandiose disease in which a person thinks he is a former President (Truman)
He is certified!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01683.html
Thanks,
Jack
retirin’ in five @ 18
Artist & Repertoire, it’s a person who is a liaison between artist and label, back in the day when singers performed songs written by others they would help find songs for their repertoire.
punaise @ 15
Uh oh, I hope this isn’t trouble.
Cool. Thanks Fini. Always wondered that. Probably first back when I saw Eddie & the Cruisers. Then again when The Doors came out.
Amazing.
Just to note that Dick Clark’s Bandstand seems segregated even in ‘67. (No DFH’s either, for that matter.) Was he stiil working outta Philly?)
Anyway, apologies to Ruben Carter and Dylan:
..”and the all-white dancers agreed.”
——-
I recall reading some adulation about this legendary producer in something like Rolling Stone waaay ‘back in the day’. Name so unusual, it stuck. Even then he was known as a giant.
R.I.P.
T- @ 23
Feel free to ask any music biz related questions you might have of Donita and I, we’ve both been around the block a few times and speaking for myself I love demystifying the business for people.
Thanks Donita. Your certainly are building quite a library of awesome youtube selctions. I did a marathon over the weekend and watched em all back to back. how sweet it is. ;-)
love the “reveal” in this one. classic
Hey Donita - you still hear from “Hinckley” from Huntington Beach, ca. 1992-3?
I’m gonna be busy all weekend digging through YouTube for classic American Bandstand vids. I was so addicted to AB growing up that I would not go anywhere away from the TV for a half an hour before it started. I used to make my friends sit down and watch with me. When I was real young, I would grab all my sister’s Barbies and my full size 12 inch tall GI Joes and line them up on the couch next to me like AB audience members when they would all gather around Dick Clark.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 25
Alright, and thanks. When the weather channel does the local segment ( “on the eights”, up here) and they play instrumental jazz in the background to talk-over and graphic-over, why don’t they have to identify the piece and the artist? Living in the musical boonies where jazz stations don’t exist and I’ve often had the urge to pursue a tune further but the weather channel never runs a crawler with the info.
success once again donita! what a great playlist!
i recently saw aretha’s biography and Ertegun played a big part in getting Aretha the right material to record. i believe she was at another label (can’t remember now which one) and they had her singing these “pop” songs that were so inappropriate for her. it was ertegun that really “got” aretha and her fabulous talent!
can’t wait till your next show! have a great holiday!
nora
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 21
An A&R person these days is usually the person responsible for the “signing” or bringing the artist to the attention of the label. If they’re good, they also assist in finding a producer as well.
I’ve been giving Ertegun his due all morning… first King Curtis at the Fillmore West , followed by Aretha at the same venue… Then I’m just going to shuffle all my Atlantic Coltrane tracks for the the rest of the day. Life wouldn’t have sounded half as good without Ahmet and his brother Neshuhi. R.I.P.
Here’s my video contribution in the spirit of the classics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL1jTjVQwR8
Awesome mix today. Simply awesome. Thanks so much Donita and Fini!
I was overjoyed last night to discover that ITunes has one of my favorite bands of all time available - and they apparently have re-released all their old stuff.
One of the funniest radio bits I ever heard was when Bobcat Goldwait built up all this excitement for the coming of “The Shaggs World Tour” on Alex Bennett’s great morning show on the “Quake”.
The Shaggs!
retirin’ in five @ 29
The only time a broadcast or cable channel is actually required to report a performance is in a monthly report to the music licensing agencies BMI/ASCAP/SESAC. If they wish to publicly acknowledge the music it is up to them. Sometimes, an arrangement is made with the license holder (the artist’s publisher) that requires a public display of the artist’s name and song title but this is not common. I have noticed recently however, that if you turn on your closed captioning feature on your TV you will see such a public acknowledgement in the closed captions of commercials using certain songs. This is not true of all commercials but I have seen this more and more lately.
Donita Sparks @ 31
Good backup there partner, I totally left that role out of my explanation. Emphasis is on “If they’re good” they find a producer as well. I’ve had my fill of lazy A&R people.
RIP AE
Favorite Atlantic joints (I gotta leave Stax/Volt out, or it would be a much longer list):
John Coltrane - Equinox
Ornette Coleman - Ramblin’
Led Zepplin - The Rain Song
Ray Charles - Leave my woman alone
Aretha Franklin - you’re a sweet sweet man
Rashaan Roland Kirk - Pedal Up
Garden State Choir - How I met Jesus
Fabulous Counts - Jan Jan
Mohawks - The Champ
Dusty Springfield - So Much Love
Harvey Averne Dozen - The word
Charles Mingus - Wednesday night prayer meeting
Archie Bell & the Drells - tighten up
it’s pretty much a bottomless pit of great, challenging music.
Fini at 36. Thanks. And Donita, sorry for what was borderline (I hope) OT. Otoh, didn’t Coltrane record on Atlantic?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
Why thank you! You have been on a roll yourself lately.
Not to throw a wrench into the works, but there is a bit of controversy about Ahmet. The producer that I’m working with now told me that there is an award winning documentary about Engineer/ producer Tom Dowd called Tom Dowd and the Language of Music
that brings up some issues of who was responsible for much of the “sound” of Atlantic’s recordings, and who was given most of the credit. I haven’t seen the film, but from what I understaned. Tom Dowd wasn’t given some of credit or the bread that was do to him from Atlantic.
I have a music business question: If Howie Klein is a “suit”, then why is he such a cool guy?
(Suit = executive type in music/broadcast/talent industry)
Ok, Fini here goes.
What does a producer do? And what do you call the dude that sits behind that board with all the dials and buttons when the artist is recording?
Donita Sparks @ 41
I saw that film, it’s a great great documentary and brings up a lot of issues which gives credence to Dowd’s assertions that he was responsible for significant contributions to the famed Atlantic sound. I’m not fully briefed on the exact beef between them but Dowd was a major innovator in the field of audio engineering. He does deserve credit at least equal to Ahmet in my own opinion.
mc @
12
mc, what a great point. What is the theory called?
Jacqrat @ 42
Not all the suits are bad people, Howie being a perfect example of a business guy who was ethical and did more good for his artists than most others in the business. He is a true music fan and a man of impeccable musical taste and vision that has proven his foresight in picking artists to support time and time again. Sometimes having the business vision is just as important as having the right producer and if you have a guy like Howie in your corner things will go better for you 9 times out of 10. This is what makes him so cool.
Punaise was kind enough to translate something for me that I found while making a kd lang video search:
It’s hard to hang out with Tomoko.
I guess I’m spinning in another universe than everyone else today, but I thought Donita might enjoy this video, so I saved it for her.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 46
Hear, hear!
Jacqrat @
47
EDIT: that service is down, so try this link: Tomoko
T- @ 43
I’ll let Donita field the producer question while I explain the man behind the board which is what I do. Guys like me are referred to as audio engineers but the term is controversial. Some of us went to school and some of us (like me) are self taught. Purists have trouble with guys like me using the term audio engineer as it affixes a vision of a lab coat guy tweaking equipment somewhere. I just use the term in a loose sense to identify that I am the guy behind the big mixing console that twiddles the knobs and mixes the sound of a recording.
It’s my job to make sure every instrument and performer is recorded properly using the right connections in the studio or live setting. I’ll pick microphones for the vocalists to use, I’ll use instrument mics to record drums and sometimes the sound out of amplifiers used by the guitarists unless they use equipment to process their signal before sending it direct to the console. I then also select the signal processing equipment used in mixing the various inputs on the mixing console and also run the tape machines or digital recording software that will multitrack record the various signals coming into the mixing booth.
Bay State Librul @ 20
My Fristian analysis says he is a psychopath; he demonstrates nearly all of the signs on the checklist:
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Pathological lying
Conning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect
Callous/lack of empathy
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral controls
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Early behavioral problems
Lack of realistic, long-term goals
Impulsivity
Irresponsibility
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Many short-term marital relationships
Juvenile delinquency
Revocation of conditional release
Criminal versatility
And on topic; I’m eagerly awaiting the arrival of Tom Waits’ 3 disc Orphans collection and An Other Cup, by Yusuf (formerly known as Cat Stevens). In the meantime, Talking Timbuktu is keeping me company. (rip, AFT)
Jacqrat @ 47
What a fun song and video!
Oddly enough he fell down at
Rolling Stones concert. He suffered a severe brain injury after the fall.
A great man with great vision and taste! R.I.P. Mr. Ertegun
Sid
one of my fave friday songs — “wild night” with martha reeves (NOT john cougar)
hang ten @ 54
You mean, Detroit Councilperson Martha Reeves.
retirin’ in five @ 55
yikes — please excuse the honorific oversight.
Donita must have stepped away so I will give a brief idea of what a producer does but she can give you a much more in depth answer than I can. Essentially, a producer will work with the artist or band to help shape the overall sound of the music being recorded. It’s a real collaborative effort between musicians and producer and this is why so many bands either self produce or work with producers who were themselves once a musician or in another band, but this is not necessarily a prerequisite to being a producer.
A good producer will challenge the artist to fully express musical thoughts and ideas in the songs they record. They may bring in outside influences that the original songwriter might not have been exposed to that will alter slightly the outcome of a particular song. They will also work with the songwriter and performers to craft an arrangement that may be different from the original demo recording. A verse may be expanded or cut, a bridge added, a harmony tweaked or the entire song might be reordered entirely structurally.
A producer will also help the artist or band pick from amongst their own repertoir of songs to record or from an existing catalog of available songs written by other songwriters. They will also work with the A&R rep to coordinate efforts with the label and will set the schedule for the recording sessions. They will also pick the location of the recording session unless the band or artist or even the label has somewhere else in mind. I’m sure I’m leaving out more but Donita can help add to the discussion when she returns.
hang ten @ 56
No snark intended. I just thought it was noteworthy that she would willingly take on such a burden. Money? Fini or Donita — could you ballpark what she might see each year in royalties?
retirin’ in five @ 58
The artists from the 50s and 60s were not as business savvy and ended up signing a lot of their rights away entirely to unscrupulous labels, agents and managers. It is entirely possible she either doesn’t see any royalties or makes such a miniscule amount that it doesn’t amount to much despite her career being so prolific and well known. I wouldn’t be able to ballpark without knowing what sort of deal she had with the label and her handlers.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 57
Thanks Fini. MY producer’s on my case. I’m late for the studio. Gotta go. And just want to let everyone know…I totally have a crush on the guy with glasses damcing at the beginning of the American Bandstand clip.
Donita Sparks @ 60
Oh yeah and the producer will also crack a whip on the artist to get to the studio on time to record their songs. And I had a feeling she had a crush on that dude, he looks like a hipster from back then.
Thanks, Fini at 59. I’d heard somewhere or other that another Detroiter, Anita Baker, was originally told “she couldn’t sing” by some label. Do you have any inside knowledge or rumor of that?
retirin’ in five @
62
I’d heard that before too but I have no direct knowledge to confirm or deny it. It just proves that not everybody in this business has good taste.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 63
Not meaning to monopolize the thread or anything but Fini — the “Wall of Sound” generally credited to Phil Spector, I believe. Warranted or crapola?
Fini and Donita?
Both of you are in something i’ve been starting school again to go into. My local community college has something referred to as Music Recording Technology as an AA. It has grounding in piano, music theory, aural comprehension and a slew of technology of the modern parlance. I saw that degree and i knew it was what i wanted. I’ve been audio obsessed from a very young age. The only thing i’m not sure of is if that training would allow me to be a producer (after some time) or would i be able to audio engineer as well. Because the whole thing is a mix of electronics, physics, and the musical grounding to produce as well as do the actual tweaking of sounds like you described before, Fini. I’ve been a choral musician up until now on my own, but sound is sound to me. It’s what keeps me going and what i sit and analyze out of habit. *grins*
I’m working a completely different job right now, but this has been my goal for years at this point. To do something in this field. Even if it’s only moonlighting compared to my regular pharmacy tech workaday job.
Margot @ 45
mc’s Theory of Everything
Seriously, I’m not sure. It was one of those things I heard years ago and thought to myself, “well, that makes sense.”
Any historians around who can elaborate?
Tramp, Otis Redding and Carla Thomas
“Otis, you country!
You straight outa them Georgia woods!
retirin’ in five @ 64
Warranted, that was a term ascribed by a critic to one of his early recordings and it got picked up by other critics who liked to use the phrase to describe Spector’s sound.
I wonder how many of those dancers have seen this video today? Shout out if you recognize yourselves. You guys must be in your late 50’s, I’m guessing. I was just a little girl back then but I can’t remember those shapeless and infantile styles for young women. Good thing navy surplus dungarees, long hair and love beads were just around the corner.
aliasofwestgate @ 65
That sort of education would pretty much allow you to do both audio engineering and production work. It is really something you will discover as you go into the course deeper where your personal interest lies. I know that I am a bit more recording process oriented and that is why I focus on the engineering aspects. Producers are more song and artist oriented generally. Its a big picture versus micro picture issue that will determine where your talents lay. Producers are a big picture type and engineers more into the nitty gritty of recording. I do however engage in both endeavors from time to time.
Fini at 68 and sorry again, Donita. Getting kinda peripheral to Ertegun and Atlantic. To my thinking, at least, the penultimate “wall of sound” — “Be My Baby”, the Ronettes. I’ll watch the beginning of “Dirty Dancing” whenever it’s available just for that scene of the dancers and that song. So Fini- what’s your fave? (This thread’s bringing up some fond memories. Thanks to all contributing.)
retirin’ in five @ 71
I gotta go with You’ve Lost That Loving Feeling by the Righteous Brothers as my fav Spector hit.
Fini, one more question:
I’ve heard the story from way back when that Mama Cass couldn’t sing high enough for the group, but she went back one more time and on the way, a hammer (I think) got dropped on her from a workman on a ladder.
And then she could sing higher. Is this crap or true?
Margot @ 73
I’d not heard this one, I would think crap on the face of it, you either learn to sing those octaves or you don’t.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 72
Oh. Yes, yes! Good one! How great it was to be a teen during the sixties! You younger folks — sorry.
Cool. I thought that would be the result. As it is? i’m about to embark on seriously learning piano for the first time in my life next year. *grins* I consider it a challenge since i’ve been a vocalist by necessity for most of my life. 29 isn’t too old to learn new things, and for me? New tends to be fun, and gods. It feels like an adventure. Music and sound has always been the driving force in my life, always there. It seems to be the common thread in all good producers and engineers, i’ve observed. I’m betting Ahmet had the same feeling when workign with those he discovered. Just ‘knew’ when something was right. Mostly intuition and the rest is training.
retirin’ in five @ 75
Hehehe I AM one of the younger folks - I was born in 71. I just love the whole era of music after WW2.
aliasofwestgate @ 76
Everything you need to know about music is in that statement. Add to it practice. Intuition, training and practice is what you need to write good songs, produce them and record them.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 78
Gotcha. I’ll take that to heart. You’re not much older than i am! *grins* On the idea of songs that i like that were made long before i was born? Under the Boardwalk by The Drifters.
I’ve always loved something in that sound since i was tiny. I never understood all the words, but it was just good. Still is, to this day.
“Hehehe I AM one of the younger folks - I was born in 71. I just love the whole era of music after WW2.”
Don’t necessarily write off the war or pre war five years or so. I’ve always had this unexplained affinity for Swing, Big Band stuff. Didn’t, of course, listen to it with my friends in the sixties, but it’s always been there. You could make out to the Righteous Brothers with that cute sophomore from Chem class whereas you couldn’t make out to say “String of Pearls.”
retirin’ in five @ 80
I grew up with my mother’s 78s collection with Glen Miller, Artie Shaw, Count Basie and Louis Armstrong so I know what you mean. I just generally like the entire post WW2 era in music, from jazz by Quincy Jones, Ramsey Lewis and others to blues from BB King, Sam and Dave, John Lee Hooker to rock n roll and everything in between. I’m a fan of any music done well in any style of any era.
Fini? I’d say between the anime and the music? We have a lot in common. *laughs*
I’m the same way about music. I’m as likely to listen to any genre from any decade. As long as it’s got that something i just love. Also make that any country too, since a language i dont’ understand never stopped me from enjoying something. My mom doesn’t get it, and dad is tone deaf to begin with.
As i was posting my call for a nationwide tax refusal on my blog, i’m listening to Housemusique, a netradio live DJ out of Paris, same time zone as me, where it’s heading toward midnight. And this deep house after some serious time spent recovering Joe Ely, Gram Parsons and Bob Wills.
And then to find the entire Atlantic catalogue crowding my brain courtesy Donita’s stellar post…
Again, apologies for being a thread hog.
Fini, you mentioned Quincy, the thread is about Ahmet, so throw in the movie “Ray” and how language evolves and you get cultural misrepresentations by the would be historians of subtle matters only a geezer would know. In the movie on Ray’s life, Quincy, after being denied admittance to a bar in ‘51 in Seattle, walks away calling the bouncer “jive.” Unfortunately, in ‘51 the slang “jive” would have had a positive connotation. By the mid to late sixties it had a completely negative connotation — as witnessed by the seventies song “Jive Talkin”.
Sorry. The pompous ass side of my nature seems to be taking control here.
aliasofwestgate @ 82
I’ve never let a language barrier stop my enjoyment of a great artist. Opera lovers do not have diminished enjoyment of a number of performances simply because they don’t speak Italian, why should I not get into Rammstein for singing in German if I love their angry passionate sound?
retirin’ in five @ 84