
This just in from the Bush DoJ:
“That is more process than the United States has ever provided to enemy combatants in our past conflicts,'' Blomquist said.
Could some enterprising journalist please ask the follow-up question: how many times in American history have we designated people as "enemy combatants?" Because I think that the American public would find the answer to that question very illuminating.
“This is the first time in the history of this country that a court has held that a man may be held by our government in a place where no law applies,'' said Barbara Olshansky, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights, which has handled many detainee cases.
A federal judge in the DC Circuit has ruled that Hamdan and other detainees no longer have a right to appeal their detention in the federal court system due to the recent legislation passed by the GOP-controlled Congress. This sets up the judicial confrontation with the legislation that many have been expecting since its implementation — and allows for appeal up through the system toward the Supreme Court.
One wonders whether the Great Writ will be held to be as important to this Court as it was to the Founders, who placed it within the four corners of the Constitution itself, the only such individual civil right to be so placed. Will a law which constricts application of habeas corpus principles to combatants that meet a very narrow definitional criteria newly applied by the Bush Administration without regard for the long-term precedential application of this — not just for the people we currently hold in Guantanimo, but for our military personnel who may now be held in the same standards by our enemies abroad.
There are a lot of questions that need to be asked and answered about this legislation. They should have been explored more thoroughly at the time it was moving through the Judiciary and Armed Services committees — too bad the rubber stamp Republican Congress decided to abdicate its responsibility and function as George Bush's CYA Parliament instead of providing checks and balances to Bush Administration excesses. Here's hoping the US Supreme Court continues to provide that legal check that we already saw in the first Hamdan case.
More on this ruling from the WaPo and the Sydney Morning Herold. Glenn has excellent coverage that is well worth a read and some discussion here. Also, Jeralyn has some thoughts and a link to the decision here.
Let's start with a small question: why on earth would any non-US citizen ever want to come here, even for vacation or travel purposes, with this sort of draconian "if you aren't a citizen, we can hold you indefinitely, with no right to habeas or legal proceedings, because we get to define who may or may not be an 'enemy combatant' and you can't question us about it" rule on the books? Discuss.



107 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
FITZ!
REDD!!
We are already seeing thousands of tourists avoiding the U.S. like a plague. Can’t say as I blame ‘em.
Peanut! and Santa… :)
Great post, Christy.
One omission from this quote:
Does the loss of habeus corpus apply only to those designated enemy combatants?
Bustednuckles @ 3..iirc…tourist traffic is down 17% over the past two years and business travel is down 10% over the past year. This is despite a weak dollar. Financial services are moving to Europe because people don’t want to risk travel to the US.
Crazy Horse at 6 — the answer to that one is that we don’t know, as yet, how that will or will not be interpreted. And how people will or will not get designated as “enemy combatants.” Jose Padilla is a VERY good example as to why we have no clear answers on this.
“If you’re not guilty, you’re not a suspect, by definition. That would be contradictory.”
- former Attorney General Edwin Meese
(yes, he did once say that)
_
Crazy Horse @ 6
Yes, but anybody, including American citizens, can be designated. If they want to throw you down a bottomless pit all they have to do is say you’re an enemy combatant. Oh, and what Christy said too:
Christy Hardin Smith @ 8
I’m part of a couple of international scholarly organizations, and the question “why on earth would any non-US citizen ever want to come here?” definitely crosses the minds of the non-US members that I’ve talked to. Generally, the academic nature of the conference wins out over fear, but the mere fact that the question even comes up for them ought to make everyone sit up and take notice.
And then there are the folks that can’t get through even if they want to, like Tariq Ramadan or Mohammed Sajid.
Feeling safer, everyone? Me neither.
This comment is unresponsive but I don’t know where else to put it.
http://canadiancynic.blogspot.com/ opines that
While a period of six months has now been officially enshrined as a “Friedman unit,” sometimes things happen more quickly and measuring in terms of Friedman units isn’t appropriate.
Therefore, given that the daily casualty rate for U.S. troops is somewhere around three a day, we can now refer to a 24-hour period as “three dead soldiers.” Which means that Commander Codpiece isn’t quite ready to make any big decisions for another, oh, 50 dead soldiers or so. Maybe more, depending on how things go between now and then.
Christy –
What happens should American citizens be denied habeas corpus (or equivalent) when visiting another country? What happens when the shoe is on the other foot?
Because they trust the US government would never treat this power in an abusive or negligent manner.
Erm
On second thought, better prepare for a drastic downturn in the travel industry.
Vielen Dank, Christy and Toobz. Fine post, btw.
Peterr at 11 — I’d be very interested to see where numbers are for foreign students coming to study here as well. I’ve seen numbers for the past couple of years that did not look good — and after this decision on the legislation this year, I wonder if that has made a difference as well for next year’s incoming classes?
What happens should American citizens be denied habeas corpus (or equivalent) when visiting another country? What happens when the shoe is on the other foot?
Did you see the movie “Midnight Express”?
And, if HC weren’t enough, there’s also this little bit of news.
Bush’s boys and girls at DoJ have been busy as little bees.
KO on Habeas Corpus from a few months ago. I’m sure most have seen it but just in case… here it is
One of the premises for the ruling was that Hamdan had never entered the USA voluntarily:
So I don’t know that tourists would be affected.
I am more frightened by what Bush and the Republican Congress has wrought than I ever was as a youngster when we practiced hiding under our school desks in case of a Russian nuclear attack. Anyone know if this is going to the Supremes and, if so, how long it will take to get on the docket?
The restoration of habeas corpus should be priority number one for all in Congress and the SCOTUS. If they cannot restore our rights in full, with haste and expediency when they have this complete failure of an administration staring them in the face, then we are truly lost.
We have become our own worst enemy.
The legal eagles may find this helpful. CRS report on changes created by MCA from previous law.
kemo @
17
No, I haven’t seen it.
Well, this Canadian is staying on her side of the border.
kemo @ 17
I was about to mention that same movie. Americans are denied habeus corpus in many exotic locales worldwide on a regular basis. Our embassy folks can lodge complaints and all but if you do something to garner attention of legal authorities in another country where rule of law is not respected you are pretty much on your own. Traveler beware.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 16
I understand that there has been increased demand for places in Canadian schools.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 24
GREAT movie. Based on a true story.
_
If I could impose upon the crack Legal Eagle staff here at FDL; I need some ammunition:
How do I rectify Lincoln’s actions in the Civil War, with this statement:
wahoofive at 20 — Jose Padilla was a US citizen and was held involuntarily without access to counsel and designated an enemy combatant when he was picked up on American soil. You tell me — if you were a non-US citizen and had a choice between travelling here or going elsewhere, would that sort of history from the Bush Administration weigh on your mind? If a US citizen is denied the protections of the US Constitution on US soil — what protections can a non-US citizen be comfortable in having under the current Administration? Honestly…I’m not certain that I would risk my family’s safety on the hopes that we could convince the DoJ that we entered the nation “voluntarily” to go to Disney World.
Midnight Express: I was probably too young when I saw it, because it left quite an impression.
Fini: Late Nite, kirk murphy had a comment for you
Crazy Horse @
6
Didn’t John Dean say that, in one part of the legislation, it appeared so as to NOT apply to U.S. citizens, but that in another portion, it appeared that U.S. citizens could well be classfied ‘enemy combatants’, and thus, well – screwed?
I seem to recall his saying that it was a very poorly drafted piece of legislation.
“That is more process than the United States has ever provided to enemy combatants in our past conflicts,” Blomquist said.
“This is the first time in the history of this country that a court has held that a man may be held by our government in a place where no law applies,” said Barbara Olshansky, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights…
Aha, the practical benefits of a homeschool education… you are entitled to your own interpretive dance of history. (And no, I’m not condemning all homeschooling, just the fancy-free facts version.)
johnSwifty @ 29
Lawyerly hyperbole on the part of Olshansky – the suspension of HC by Lincoln during the Civil War is well known.
johnSwifty at 29 — it was a temproary suspension of habeas corpus at a time of war for persons who were arrested on the battlefield, as I understand it. Not for persons who were picked up off the field of war, and held indefinitely — in this case for some at Gitmo more than 4 years, with no access to legal counsel whatsoever. Someone with an historical background on this can hopefully comment further — Civil War history is not my specialty — but Lincoln’s actions were very restricted in terms of application, as I recall. Anyone have a broader background on this who can explain in more detail?
We are not attracting students like we used to.
I did find this little nugget tucked into one of Slavin’s articles.
(bold mine)
heh– I bet it does, since you can bearly speek englush and you don’t do diplomacy or any foreign policy other than yeehaw and shock and awe.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/s…..rain_x.htm
punaise @ 32
I knocked out early, will go downstairs and check it out.
jayt @ 33
… sometimes that’s on purpose. (!)
Additionally, we can also torture you.
One of the main reasons for the decline in enrollments of international students is that the visa process has become so much longer, difficult, and capricious.
wahoofive #21, the definition of who can be designated an enemy combatant in the Military Commissions Act includes both citizens and non-citizens, in other words everyone.
OT I just heard on NPR that Sen. Johnson had a “congenital malformation that caused bleeding in his brain.” The most common source of such bleeding is the bursting of a berry aneurysm, an outpouching in the wall of one of the arteries of the brain. Berry aneurysms are farily common and occur in around 2% of the population. Most do not burst. Of those that do, 25% to 50% die after the first bleed. Bleeding occurs most commonly in a person’s 40s and is more common in women. It can occur at any time but usually after straining as with passing stool or sexual orgasm. Pressure on the brain from the bleed creates what the patient usually calls “the worse headache of my life.” Unconsciousness occurs usually after a few minutes. Rebleeding is common.
This is just a guess on my part based on one sentence I heard so take with the appropriate amount of salt.
As E. L. Doctorow reminds us in his essay “A Citizen Reads the Constitution,” while the Framers kept no official record of their debates on the nature of the Constitution, we have a notebook kept by Madison that came to light in 1843 that sheds light on their deliberations.
Debate was fierce, says Doctorow, but “some matters were easy to agree on–the writ of habeas corpus, the precise nature of treason.”
In other words, inclusion of habeas corpus was a no-brainer.
And so it bugs the hell out of me that these creeps have sought to nullify this feature in the Constitution.
Christy @36
I recall reading something last year about the problem being related to the Confederates’ and their sympathizers damaging telegraph lines. Telegraph was the only way at the time to quickly communicate with generals at the front, so pockets of Southern sympathizers in Northern states would happily disable the lines to help the South. It was those people that Lincoln was trying to take out of commission.
A number of reputable international scholars are already being kept out of the US because of tight visa regulations: Scholars trying to come here for academic conferences, research, and appointments to tenure in top US universities. So much for advanced international intellectual exchange.
Article I Section 8:
In case anyone wanted the actual text.
Biodun @ 45
I’ve also read (sorry, no link, it’s been a while) that international business people have grown prgressively more tired with the continuous harassment each and every time they come into the States.
In other words, it’s costing us a lot of money, too.
Hugh @ 45
Looks like the fine legal minds in Congress and at the DoJ missed that bit. Or are they going to claim that we’re in a state of ‘Rebellion or Invasion’?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 36
From Wiki “One of the militia captains was John Merryman, who was arrested without a writ of habeas corpus one month later, sparking the case of Ex parte Merryman.”
Also several members of the Maryland State Legislature were arrested, along with the mayor, city council, and police commissioner of Baltimore.
Christy,
Any speculation as to how long it will take for this matter to reach the Supremes?
Our government already has (and uses) its capability to hold non-citizens on the flimsiest excuse as they attempt entry into the USA. A friend who has since emigrated to the UK was stunned last summer when his marital partner (their union solemnized in and recognized by both Canada and the UK) was held by US agents in Canada as he tried to enter our country legally. My friend’s spouse had on his shared laptop alleged “work-related” files, since my friend had used it for his work. Claiming the work was the spouse’s, and that he was thus working illegally in the US, federal agents denied him entry (after discovering that the spouse in question was same-sex and therefore they were in a union not recognized by our Federal Government).
This talented friend of mine, who’d developed AIDS/HIV education for community health outreach workers in the State of California for over ten years, could neither find nor contact his spouse for many days, only to hear from him as he was deported by US agents from Canada to his native UK. Our agents’ homophobia was extraordinary; that’s a story for another day. The agents’ raid on my friend’s SF home, late one evening, soured him forever on the idea that our government protects us.
My point for today’s discussion: It’s happening here already, people. Non-US-citizens and their US citizen family members are being treated as The Other by our own government (see Pach’s post below as well). No one is safe.
We Are All Jose Padilla Now.
We Are All Lista Latina Now.
Hugh @ 41
I had a very close friend pass away at 34 because of this. Complained of a headache, started immediately slurring his speach, and by the time the ambulance arrived 5 minutes later he was unconscious and had the rigid posturing of severe brain damage.
They stablized his body, but he was gone, just like that. My daughter bears his name as her middle name.
Hugh @ 45
WRT the Civil War, one of the bigger episodes where Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus was when the South was on the verge of surrounding DC, cutting it off from the rest of the North. He specifically limited the suspension to roads and rail lines that connected DC to Baltimore and points north. Those taken into custody were dealt with swiftly, and the suspension did not last terribly long.
In other words, it was limited in both geographic area to which it applied and also in the duration of its effect. Lincoln did not suspend Habeas Corpus throughout the nation for the duration of the whole war. (But that’s the impression you’d get by listening to some of the wingnuts!)
Osama could never do as much damage to our country as this congress and administration has. I never felt less safe or clear about the security of my family, neighbors, police, home, citizenship etc.
NZ Expat recently posted a comment about folks she knows who travel through the US by air with a layover only. They never disembark and still Homeland Security boards the plane and takes a retinal scan of everyone. Many folks now fly around the world in the opposite direction of the US.
OT the BBC quotes a hospital spokesman that Johnson had “an intracerebral bleed caused by a congenital arteriovenous malformation”. An arteriovenous malformation is one where the arterial and venous circulations are directly connected (no capillaries to reduce the pressure between the high pressure arterial flow and the much lower pressure venous flow). These usually appear as a mat of misshapen vessels and more commonly show up in the 10 to 30 year old age range. They are more common in men. In addition to seizure, these can produce symptoms similar to the burst berry aneurysm I mentioned in a previous comment.
OT-Here’s video of the raid in Greeley:
QuickTime.
OfT – just how much time has Laura Bush spent in Iraq – outside the Green Zone?
Whatever happened to reasonable doubt?
P J Evans @ 47
IANAL but I would think that this would be a basis for any appeal to the Supreme Court.
OT – DeLay on the 109th Congress: ‘Conservatives Don’t Go To’ Washington To ‘Pass Laws’
Eureka Springs, AR @ 58
Well, in the absence of trial in a real court of law, it’s become, um, ‘quaint’?
Good question, though. What is the standard of proof at military tribunal “trials”?
TBogg offers the short version
of a longer post at Jules Crittenden.
P J Evans @ 47
Not necessarily. The Constitution says “suspended.” The Congress/Bush ended it.
Kristinejoy @51 My older sister’s aneurysm burst at age 36. She left 5 children behind. This family’s sorrow is forever remembered. Her first grandchild bears her name.
Eureka at 57 — Reasonable doubt is the standard used for conviction in a criminal case. In this particular instance, I think you may be referencing “probable cause” standards — which is the basis for holding someone or picking them up on a warrant — having a “probable cause” (or having it be more likely than not that the person was involved in a criminal activity). It is a much lower standard — much easier for an investigator or prosecutor to prove, for a number of reasons this is a good thing, actually — and it is the standard on which a grand jury operates in terms of deliberations as well. The more stringent “reasonable doubt” standard is what the defendant tries to raise in the minds of the jurors at trial — and if the jurors have reasonable doubts as to guilt, they are bound to NOT convict.
Damnitall. The stepson’s sweetheart just applied for a visa to study here.
I’d rather send him there. Wonder what it would take to get the two of them to change their minds.
OT -Raw Story – NJ school locked down over hazardous substance…
Teacher hospitalized, 25 students held… Developing…
ex-parte Miligan from 1866 (IANAL):
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/…..amp;page=2
OT–Lieberman accompanies his buddy McCain to Baghdad:
From Salon’s War Room today:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/
jayt @ 60
They need proof?
Biodun at 68 — Atrios just put up an hilarious — and yet quite infuriating — summary of Joe Lieberman’s shifty positions on Iraq.
Wo.
(((((*ilbo’s family)))))
PS That picture makes me dizzy, Christy.
Another reason to send best wishes to the SD Senator…
Leahy yesterday at Georgtown Law:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress…..S/61213007
I know and occasionally hear EPU’s voice before typing fascism, but, where are we heading? What horrific word applies, if not fascism?
Dick Cheney may be King in a few hours!
This law will be in the hands of the worst possible elected US officials I dare imagine.
my wife and kids have dual citizenship (France/U.S.). needless to say, we all re-enter under U.S. passports.
egregious @ 70
lol, E.Greg. Well, except for the fact that it’s too damn true, and sad.*ilbo @ 63
Just when I typed his age did I realize that I am his age now. My oldest daughter was 9 months old at the time and I remember asking to see her reach the age of 12, that would be enough, because at least she would know me.
Well, she’s thirteen now, and my youngest eleven and I am blessed to still be a part of their lives.
Not to make light, but Groucho nails it, again:
Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
~Groucho Marx
peterr @ 52..
“In other words, it was limited in both geographic area to which it applied and also in the duration of its effect. Lincoln did not suspend Habeas Corpus throughout the nation for the duration of the whole war. (But that’s the impression you’d get by listening to some of the wingnuts!)”
Exactly right…The but..but..what about Lincoln..as Bush shreds the Constitution is total bullshit. The “unconstitutonal act” was the Emancipation Proclamation. How Lincoln did it within the Constitution was, to me. the most interesting subject in Goodwin’s “Team of Rivals”
OT (but sort of ‘on T’):
Is there any way to legally compell the Idiot to do what his employers (us) want him to do, short of impeachment?
It’s been a long time since 8th grade civics…
Thanks
The President has committed and continues to commit crimes against the Constitution. He needs to be impeached if we value our form of government, and our freedoms.
There is not other way, outside of what, say, the Czechs did——stand in the streets until the dictator leaves.
Quick OT and off to read the post:
Can somebody from our community please do this? It’s sooo important:
In four weeks, thousands of media reformers will come together in Memphis for the 2007 National Conference for Media Reform. If you haven’t made your plans yet, now is the time.
Register Now for the National Conference for
Media Reform: Jan. 12-14
Academy Award winner Geena Davis, famed White House correspondent Helen Thomas and many other fantastic speakers have recently been added to the schedule.
Click here to check out the complete schedule of nearly 100 panels and workshops.
Some of the highlights include:
“Inside Corporate Media: Can it Tell the Truth?” — a panel moderated by Phil Donahue featuring Juan Gonzalez of the Daily News, MSNBC commentator Flavia Colgan, author and media critic Jeff Cohen and Chicago Sun-Times columnist Laura Washington.
A discussion on “Winning Alternatives” with Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman, filmmaker Robert Greenwald and Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation.
“Media Policy is a Civil Rights Issue” with former FCC Commissioner and NAACP Executive Director Ben Hooks, Kim Gandy, president of the National Organization for Women, Mark Lloyd of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, and others.
A panel on hip-hop activism with Davey D of KPFA-FM, Rosa Clemente of R.E.A.C.Hip-Hop, Detroit hip-hop artist Ilana “Invincible” Weaver, San Diego’s Brotha Los, Adrienne Maree Brown of the Ruckus Society and Youth Media Council’s Malkia Cyril.
“The Press at War and the War on the Press” featuring famed White House correspondent Helen Thomas, media critic Eric Boehlert, Sonali Kolhatkar of the Afghan Women’s Mission, and Paul Rieckhoff of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.
“Watchdogging the Media” with David Brock of Media Matters for America, Janine Jackson of FAIR, media critic Norman Solomon, and radio host and author Laura Flanders.
A look at the new media landscape with Dan Gillmor from the Center for Citizen Media, Jay Rosen of New York University, Afro-Netizen’s Chris Rabb, Ellen Miller of the Sunlight Foundation and Chris Nolan of Spot-on.com.
The full schedule — which also includes sessions on “Saving the Internet,” Hurricane Katrina, public broadcasting, ethnic media and global media policy — is available at http://www.freepress.net/conference.
Register Now for the National Conference for Media Reform
Off topic -
http://www.weather.com/newscen…..enter_news
Jane -
If you’re here, please read this:
http://www.weather.com/newscen…..enter_news
“Midnight Express” aside, I’m curious about the legal protections for American citizens travelling abroad. Are these governed by the legal protections which apply to citizens of that country? Or by treaty with the U.S. ? Can someone give a specific example from the countries to which American tourists most frequently travel such as Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Canada?
egregious @
71
Thanks, much needed, to wipe the tears. Let’s not highjack this excellent thread though.
Stephen Parrish — thanks for that bit, if cloud cover improves I’ll be sure to have the kids get out and look at the northern lights.
Unfortunately hazy-to-overcast right now. Lovely sunrise, but cloudy since then.
Might want to make allowances for weird communications issues, folks, especially on cell phones.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 16
I’ve been trying to pull that data, but some Dept of Ed wesbite changes have made some of my bookmarks obsolete. I did, however, discover that SEVIS, the ICE subsidiary that tracks international students, reported in August 2004 that there were “more than 770,000 students and exchange visitors” in their system (plus dependents), while as of March 2006 they report that the number of active students is 611,581. These may be not be exactly comparable figures, as they came from different sources (i.e., not two lines on the same table), but I think the trend is correct even if the numbers are a bit off.
punaise @ 75
I also have an international family. We all have US passports to avoid all the hassle. The laughable situation is some of us have to get visas to visit the “home” country.
Christy @70:
Thanks for the Atrios linky. Yes, hilarious.
Has anyone seen the meteor showers this week? It’s been too cloudy here.
hi pups -
OTish:
the very well-travelled Robert Fisk is on KALW, and they are taking audience questions (’til 11)
have fun! (i’m travelling off to the farmers’ market, myself)
(kalw has a toll free # for questions…)
mc @ 78
Great quip, but to borrow a phrase from Borat, not so much.
The military ‘bands’ in this country are all top level professional ensembles. (Band is in ’scare quotes’ because the service bands all have string sections, which in US english makes them orchestras.)
The military justice system (well, with the possible exception of the Air Farce) has lots of very fine lawyers in it. In some respects, the military justice system can be more compassionate than the civil system. In some respects, it’s harsher. All said, though, military justice isn’t necessarily an oxymoron.
Of course, when you have asshat maroons like Dubya and Company pulling the strings, you can turn things into oxymorons.
BC
From S3930 The Military Commissions Act of 2006:
Although this is somewhat to the side to the present case, the definition of unlawful enemy combatant is universal and does not distinguish between citizens and non-citzens. Further, purposeful and material support in the current climate could be applied to almost anyone and any activity. Proponents say that this would not extend to the innocent donation to an Islamic charity that was later shown to have “terrorist” connections. But who can tell? It definitely will have a chilling effect.
BTW the military commissions prescribed by the legislation can only try non-citizens.
However the Military Commissions Act doesn’t require that alien detainees have a judicial process. It just specifies the guidelines if there should be one. A process for citizens is not specified.
Citizens and non-citizens can still be held indefinitely without charge or trial and with the elimination of habeas corpus they have no way to challenge their detainment.
JML @ 90
Too much moon, not enough stardust.
BC
Thanks for the heads up on Late Night punaise. I just left Kirk a semi-rambling tirade that I hope he doesn’t take too personally. If you see him before I do let him know to check the thread. I had to break out the soapbox a little. I like kirk but I touched a nerve then he touched a nerve back.
The night sky has been a visual feast lately. Don’t know what I am looking at but I like it.
A nice benefit of living with only a couple of electric lights on the horizon during winter months. Humidity in this neck of the woods keeps me from buying a telescope.
I’m definitely not one to pick nits on this issue, since I think it is all beyond the pale (and add Sen Sherrod Brown – who takes his voting directions from John McCain – to Lieberman) but while I think this is true:
I don’t think it is true bc of Judge Robertson’s MCA decision. I dont have time to go into a lot of it and I need to read more, but Robertson did differentiate between people who have had some legal interaction with the United States, like being on US soil, from those in GITMO who were
bought like slaves with no ties to any combat or battlefieldtaken into US custody in foreign lands as a consequence of war and are not held on US soil.IOW – Congress and its nifty GITMO carveout worked.
It’s not that anything being done is Constituational, it is that the Judge believes (based in large part on the Eisentrager footnote, that Stevens ahd to get around in Hamdan) that there is no standing for non-US citizens who have not had any legal interaction with the US to raise Constitutional protections.
So a foreign citizen in the country legally (like al-Maari) would, under Robertson’s ruling, still have habeas rights, I believe.
OTOH, a foreign citizen in this country legally – like oh, say, Maher Arar, can be kidnaped and sent to Syria for torture and proxy interrogation and that is ok, as long as anyone with DOJ stands up in court and says, SSSSHHHH, it’s a secret.
Also, for those US citizens and legal alien, the question still remains – once the Gov disappears them to GITMO under the MCA, which it can, who is going to know what happened to them to raise habeas? ANd with the new arguments being so thoughtfully made by our DOJ that detainees aren’t really allowed to speak to civilian lawyers, and with JAG lawyers being gagged, again – who ya gonna call?
This one isn’t just the Republican’s fault. Reid, Levin, Schumer, Lieberman, Clinton, Brown (who wasn’t a Senator then, but who outright APPLAUDED the abomination as a Represenative) -no one would fight, no one would lead. Leahy tried his best, but he was pretty much alone.
The scope of the MCA goes so far beyond habeas and “fixing” habeas. It takes huge chunks of our civilian criminal law and Xs them out for anyone the President sticks a label on. It actually makes things that have never ever ever been treated as military matters or war acts or war crimes and sucks them into the realm of military resolution in a manner that turns the concept of the law of war upside down. It cuts the Uniform Code of Military Justice up in pieces and sews it back into something that – with several visits to a skilled plastic surgeon – might eventually pass for Frankenstein’s monster.
It would take to long to go into all the bad it does, but there you go. To further discuss Christy’s question – take it to the US citizen level. If you were a Muslim citizen, or a lawyer approached by one, what would you do if you had information about something that seemed “off”?
If you go to the authorities – what if they think you know more? Start thinking about the things they can do and see if you would go, or if you could in good conscience tell a client to go, to the police?
What if you are here legally or a citizen, but you have family overseas? The US Department of Justice has solicited a cadres of criminals willing, ready and abble – and insulated by this Congress from liability – to go and kidnap your family members and torture them.
What a great way to develop human intel – when everyone who might have it has grounds to be more scared of speaking to the US gov than of keeping quiet.
And just how proud can you be to work for a “Justice” department that enables you to get your own personal blood splattered t-shirt, complete with a picture of your favorite terrorist’s children who have been kidnapped and terrified while their parents are tortured.
Be proud America.
thank you Mary.
this really stood out for me:
oh and I don’t know if you caught this from yesterday’s threads, but here is Brown with Amy Goodman
http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..12/1459223
Fern @ 25
How are you faring with Bushite Harper? Has he made any gains in tearing apart your provincial health care system?
new thread
I can hear Justice department employees now…
But that would never happen to me. yeah.
Mary #97,
I would think that a non-citizen in this country would have all the usual legal rights including habeas corpus up to the point that they are declared unlawful enemy combatants. At that point, all bets are off.
Steve @ 7
Well,we can always seize people we SUSPECT in foreign countries and fly them to BLACK HOLES or Quantanimo,so why worry over loss of tourists making themselves targets by visiting our shores?
rizbiz @ 80
Yes, it’s called an action for Mandamus.
The very first was Marbury vs. Madison
Biodun @ 68
Great. I hope the voters of Connecticut are really happy now.
Hugh @102: I see why you think that and that is gov’s argument in general on the legal non-citizen detainee they have now, but Robertson’s opinion is to the contrary, based on a string of cases involving non-Citizens in the country legally and Constitutional (as opposed to statutory) habeas.
Sorry so short and hope that’s not too cryptic, but I’m out the door.
hackworth @ 99
Harper is, mercifully, in a minority government position and down in the polls since the new Liberal leader was chosen. He will need to be very, very careful about what he puts before Parliament. Which is not to say that he hasn’t done and won’t do damage – or that we’re perfect – but I still have anxiety about going to the US that I didn’t have before.