
House Democrats have floated a trial balloon about setting up an outside ethics panel to police such matters travel, lobbying, gifts and the like according to a New York Times story today.
Evidently Nancy Pelosi has floated this idea to John Boehner and it is causing some talk on the Hill:
"An independent Congressional watchdog, if approved, would be a major break with tradition. Some lawmakers say House and Senate members have sole responsibility for policing themselves when it comes to internal rules.Some lawmakers have said an independent entity could be unconstitutional."
Clearly public corruption has been and is a HUGE issue during the tenure of the GW bush administration and the American public has made it quite clear that they are fed up. That was some election day we had last month.
"Several ideas have circulated about setting up an independent review board."
Sorta like the Civilian Complaint Review Board we have here in NYC that is supposed to review complaints of police brutality? God, I hope not. Even the cops don't have faith in it. More rubber stamping by appointed insiders who are not even accountable to voters and can't be thrown out of office directly. Just what we need---NOT.
"A coalition of House and Senate lawmakers has proposed a professional Office of Public Integrity that would consider and investigate ethics complaints."
If you staffed and ran it with "career prosecutor" types and modeled it after the DOJ Office of Professional Responsibility, maybe you might have something that worked--after a fashion. It really would depend on who you staffed it with and who the first chief was. Similarly, you could set up an Inspector General's Office for Congress, like the rest of the federal IG system. Once again, effectiveness would be closely tied to how strong the IG is. Lately, the current IG system has been having it's problems because the relevant Cabinet Secretaries have taken to slashing their budgets in an effort to stymie effective oversight. So, you need an IG able to win a battle of wills.
"Other lawmakers have called for review by a bipartisan group of former members of Congress."
Oh great, just what we need, another 9/11 Commission; full of people with their own skeletons to hide. Please tell me this idea will die aborning.
"Most believe any independent group would have to work with the existing ethics committee, which is made up of an even number of House Republicans and Democrats and has the power to punish lawmakers up to expulsion."
Uh yeah, cause the constitution says Congress is supposed to set its own rules and police itself. Can't change that with some casual, transitory bit of legislation. So what's a Congress to do?
My humble suggestion is that they take a page out of their own recent legislation: the Sarbanes-Oxley Act.
This is a gross oversimplification, but the S-O Act requires corporations to set up oversight committees. Not unlike the already existing House Ethics Committee, so we are already halfway there. When the oversight committee gets a whiff that something is amiss, the oversight committee is obligated to go hire an outside investigative/auditing/law firm to conduct and investigation and report back. Usually, the contract engaging the investigator provides that if the independent investigator finds evidence of criminal wrongdoing, that investigator is to report that wrongdoing directly to the appropriate prosecuting entity.
This is similar to a concept advanced back in the late 1980s by the NY State Organized Crime task Force in a report on how to break the Mafia's control of the construction and waste management industries in the NY Tri State area. The report called for the hiring of Independent Private Sector Inspectors General (IPSIGs) to investigate firms that had shady backgrounds.
Likewise, pursuant to a DOJ policy embodied in a document known as the "Thompson Memo" there was a proliferation of Federal Monitors hired to ensure the corporations which had been the subject of federal criminal investigations cleaned up their acts. Some of these monitors were court appointed, some were imposed as the result of a deferred prosecution agreement.
(An interesting aside--despite the fact that prosecutions under the guidelines in the Thompson Memo have been spectacularly successful and the work of the Enron Task force has had all of the corporate legal world abuzz for some time now, or more likely BECAUSE of that buzz, Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty responding to whining from the White Collar Crime Defense Bar and the Corporate Bar has just issued a new memo replacing and superseding the very effective, efficient and useful Thompson Memo. You can read the McNulty Memo here.)
There actually already exists a body of law firms, accounting firms and investigations firms that have been doing these independent investigations at the behest of government for years and years. They have uncovered millions of dollars of waste, fraud and abuse and referred many crimainal cases for prosecution all without creating a permanent bureaucracy or infrastructure. Many of these firms are deliberately bipartisan so neither side can have much influence on them. They have monitored labor unions, audited the emergency contacts let to clear the pile at Ground Zero (contrast that project with Katrina where there were no IPSIGs to see how an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure) and performed countless other monitorshipsand investigations from huge corporations like AOL/Time Warner and Computer Associates, down to local School Boards and everything in between.
No need to reinvent the wheel. Just ask the House Ethics Committee to act in the way corporate compliance and audit committees are supposed to perform under Sarbanes-Oxley.
It's simple, easy, and you can implement tomorrow. Just a thought.
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Crap… I forgot what I was supposed to say here.
I want ‘K-Street’ shut down.
ROOTZ!
lhp!
Leahy!
Fitz!
Swopa!
woo hoo!
Sign Me Up..!
Melanie Sloan, Jane and Christy too! And don’t forget the teeth!
looseheadprop!
swopa!
fisk!
[ps - there may be a typo in the final word of the post…or perhaps there’s an “h” on the floor…]
When I think what’s the problem with Wash. DC? Answer: lobbyists. Solution: public financing. Do it.
Mary - if you’re here, please post a link to a list you posted some threads ago possibly containing impeachable offenses and/or laws violated. Since it has been a while since I most recently read it, that’s the best description I can provide. Thank you very much for your help.
An independent enforcer of ethics is a non-starter. You then have four branches of government. Do you want Ken Starr in charge of such a thing?
The ethics committee can do just fine, as long as it is strictly bi-partisan and transparent.
Don’t forget that people can harass politicians by repeatedly filing false claims.
I got it.
Since the repubs don’t have control anymore, can we expect to see ethics charges to come by the truckload soon?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 2
I want public finance of all elections
period
the democrats will become as corrupt as the republicans if corporations believe a democrat will sell them law
I voted for four things in the last election. I cast my ballot to: get rid of the Republican majority in the Congress, get out of Iraq, stop blindly supporting the Israeli government, and to start ending corruption.
what a novel idea, lhp– enforce existing law?
radical, I say, too terribly radical!
:>)
constitutional amendment;
revoke personage to corporattions
this is SUPPOSED to be a government for people, by people, NOT for corporations and CERTAINLY not by corporations
a corporation is given certain lattitude and protections individuals don’t have
individuals are SUPPOSED to have certain lattitude and protections a corporation SHOULD NEVER EVER GET
like freedom of speech, the right to contribute to law makers and a few others that I can’t think of right now
perris @ 12
PERIOD!
Interesting info all through the post. The press is touting the McNulty changes as being primarily addressed to the issues of waiver of atty/client and corp willingness to fund a charged officer/director’s legal fees.
SP,CPA - I would if I could, but I don’t know how to search through to find my rants and I know there are a lot (LOT) of posts. I do think there are lots of (proofed and organized *g*) lists of impeachable offenses that people have out on the web. I can’t remember getting into that per se, but I’ve mouthed off about a lot of things so I probably did.
Olbermann is in my living-room now.
Perris- How many of the posters here are actually you?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 18
Leahy’s in mine– cable is down for at least 24 hours, but I have one of my heroes on my little laptop, again today.
OT, Olbermann reporting Johnson has not suffered either a stroke or heartattack according to an spokeswoman.
Other thing, the aide would not confirm that he is conscious.
Diagnosis tomorrow.
Shuster reporting that it’s not a lead pipe cinch at this point that the Republican governor of SD will appoint a Republican. He could appoing Johnson’s widow, if it comes to that.
Olbermann really handling the situation with the care it requires.
I am all by my lonely little self,sitting here in a panera bread
Swopa @
1
You’re supposed to say Balrog!
TRex @ 10
thanks!
Shuster painting a darker picture about Tim Johnson’s health than we have been hearing. Doesn’t sound good.
More prayers.
perris @ 22
Go for the Black Bean soup.
An ideal night of tv? Olbermann followed by the Arianna show.
Balrog @ 26
every once in a while they have “forest mushroom”
man that’s good
funny, I kind of think the bread here sort of sux
free internet though
perris @ 22
you are never alone @ FDL, perris. I’ve never eaten at Panera, but I hear good things.
angie @ 20
No Olbermann!?! My gawd! Leahy is OK.
RevDeb @
25
This on PI. Better news. Is it outdated?
Tim Johnson
Bush is a madman.
angie @ 29
/me feel loved here @ the lake
*must find a girlfriend though*
OK @ 30- Hope it doesn’t leave a mark.
I do so love Leahy, though.
Now my cynical side is showing, LHP. This is an idea that’s too likely to be effective for it to ever be implemented.
Balrog @ 31
I think that was a while ago. Jane had linked to that in the previous thread. I really don’t know what to think. Hence the more prayers comment.
Ethics is like campaign finance reform. It’s an issue that gets raised every so often. A few superficial changes are made. After congratulating themselves on their good work, lawmakers move on, but the essential rot remains.
As for Boehner and ethics, which of these does not go with the other?
Hugh @ 37
There always seems to be a lot of talk about these kinds of things right before and right after an election. Then it all goes underground because so many “more pressing” issues come up for them to deal with.
Rinse. Repeat every 2 years.
Leahy is going to need help. And he damn well better get it, Demos.
John Casper #21,
It’s likely that they will hold him overnight for observation. I don’t have enough information on this to even hazard a WAG.
Olbermann’s comment’s on Snow’s “I don’t knows” are a scream.
Throw them all out if they will not support Leahy.
We’ll find many that will once big money is out of elections.
Public financing with serious limits and free and equal time on our major media is key.
Wonderful post. This is extremely helpful lhp. This is a great post to SPOTLIGHT to the media, folks.
Hope they are checking for radiation.
The so-called House “Ethics” committee has fallen into terminal desuetude under the feckless chairmanship of the egregious “Doc” Hastings, from Eastern Washington (4th CD). The House Repub Leadership has never considered “ethics” a problem, except when it wants to slap up a House Democrat, such as Jim McDermott. The Foley “referral” was a horrid joke, read the VF article in the Jan’07 issue for some real insights into Foley’s escapades.
So, what then does one do about the so-called “constitutional” oversight mandate on Congressional ethics violations? As long as it (the Ethics Committee) remains under the thumb of whichever party runs the Speakership or Majority Leader office, oversight simply fails on partisan grounds. Unless, of course, it was reconstituted on a strict 50-50 party basis, dual chairmanship, members nominated on willingness to serve, and general agreement on the NEED for ethics oversight by both Dem and Repub House leadership. Without really shaking up the committee’s charter and purview, and not just populating it with the lowest-common-denominator hacks and timeservers, I’m afraid we’re left with the “special prosecutor” option for smoking out unethical/illegal actions by House members.
lhp, very well argued.
As far as I am concerned, until we get public financing for National elections, it’s beyond ugly. I think your idea of piggybacking on S/O makes a lot of sense. If it only gets Congresscritters to start asking, could I get this past the independent commission, it would be progress. If such a group had been in place before Foley, he and the GOP might have calculated differently.
OT, what about giving this independent group the ability to initiate routine audits of lobbyists? IOW, they could ask the lobbyist to open up their books. Right now it appears, no one does that.
Thanks Hugh.
OT, great photo of the Speaker-Elect.
It seems quite clear. Public financing of elections IS the major solution. How best to get it done?
spurious @ 44
Spurious, I’m sorry to say I had similar thoughts as soon as I heard of the Senator’s sudden illness.
The US spook mandarins used poison against Castro (and failed).
I loved I, Claudius.
I never imagined I’d be asking if our own “Imperial Family” are selecting the poisoners’ victims.
Wonder if Babs is proud?
PS:
I, “Claud-Claud-Claudius”
Robert Graves
BBC
nihil novi sub sole
salud!
Leahy’s speech @ Georgetown Law today
——–
First whff of public financing in mmy lifetime was a direct result of Deep Throat’s quote: ‘Follow the money.” CREEP had bags of cash onhand. Just like Joey2Face a couple months back.
When will we get public financing?
Ethics oversight, no matter the structure of the overseeing body is only as good as those doing the oversight. What we need are better people, not just better structures. Unfortunately, good people are hard to find, especially in DC.
Blank Kludge @ 49
Maybe right before we get universal single payer health care.
OT - don’t know if this was posted before:
Administration asks to keep Cheney logs secret
Justice Department seeks to reverse order to reveal vice president’s visitors
Morris Sheppard @ 51
that very same thought was flowing thru the grey matter as the fingers were typing that one you quoted.
WASHINGTON - In a direct affront to the Bush administration, a Democratic senator spent an hour Wednesday with Syrian President Bashar Assad in Damascus, emerging from the meeting to say Assad was willing to help control the Iraq-Syrian border.
Sen. Bill Nelson (news, bio, voting record) of Florida, a member of the Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, met with Assad after the State Department said that it disapproved of his trip.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 54
here’s the exchange that happened with tony today:
okaaay.
(notice that a faux reporter brought it up.)
NO diplomacy eez allowed, none, nyet, nada!
It’s getting to be Christmas cookie time. Anybody have a favorite recipe you’d like to share?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 47
it would take a constitutional amendment, because the Supremes have already equated money with free speech.
Blank Kludge @ 53
Great minds think alike, etc. etc…
Morris Sheppard @
50
I agree that electing/appointing good people is important. But it’s also true that we don’t always do that. We get lazy in checking out candidates, or fooled by candidates; or the process, or ambition, or power changes them. And that’s true even if we have public financing. I think the Constitutional checks and balances assumed that we’d have less than perfect people, and they set up a structure that would help solve that problem. So structure matters.
An independent entity charged with investigating alleged wrong doing is one way to set up a structure that deals with less than perfect officials. I don’t know how we can argue that a structure in which those accused, or their friends and colleagues, should do the investigations. So some structures appear better than others.
lhp’s point is that there are workable, successful models, found in corporate law, for what a good structure looks like. JMO.
Mary @
17
Mary,
I saved a couple of your legal comments from about a year ago. You want me to send them Jane or Christy?
lina @ 57
to my mind, money can equal free speech, but corporations cannot have personage and claim the rights provided for the people by the constitution
Mary - so good to see you here again!
kirk murphy @ 62
ditto!
makes me very happy.
lina @ 57
Then I would hazard we a dead in the water.
“No need to reinvent the wheel. Just ask the House Ethics Committee to act in the way corporate compliance and audit committees are supposed to perform under Sarbanes-Oxley.”
That last statement of the post is nothing short of hilarious. Pelosi has been, for some time now, busy working to completely neuter Sarbanes-Oxley and return us to the good ol’ pre-Enron days of zero regulation.
I mean, crap, the Competitive Enterprise Institute is even singing her praises.
per everyone else [[[[[Mary]]]]]
lina @ 57
Public financing does not limit speech. It merely levels the playing field among candidates and obviates the neccessity to take private (read corporate and special interest for the most part) money to be competitive. If a politician can get the funds he or she needs without pandering to special interests, and those funds can nearly match what another candidate can raise, then all the incentive to take that tainted money, and consequently be beholden to those interests, disappears.
Further, the P.R. advantage of not taking special interest or corporate money will be substantial.
I have many a saved Mary links.
Someday when everything is rosey again, someone could make an opera out of Mary’s comments…)
John Casper @ 66
Indeed. Good to see you here, Mary.
cupholder @ 65
you can amend a law without “completely neutering” it. I believe that’s what she seeks to do.
scarecrow @ 59
Good post, scarecrow. You’ve made me think and you have a really good point. Another reason to love FDL!
Still, when it comes to ethics, like policework, at least some of the cops have to be honest for the system to work.
cupholder, your crit at 6:03 may well be correct. I appreciate you taking the time to link. We always try to show a lot of deference to FDL posters. I want lhp to continue posting, because she is very good and her posts lessen the burden on all the other posters. You could have made the identical comment in a helpful way without the gratuitous swipe at the author. Save it for a Spotlight to some six figure Journalist/talking head.
Why don’t you just apologize to lhp for the “tone” of your comment, not the content.
new thread by Jane and Christy is home.
new thread: “Consistency”
“you can amend a law without “completely neutering” it. I believe that’s what she seeks to do”
If by “amend” you mean “remove all oversight enforcement threats” of the Act, you would be correct. Do some research and I’m sure you will find what I did. Pelosi’s backroom bs is starting to piss me off.
Morris Sheppard-
Still, when it comes to ethics, like policework, at least some of the cops have to be honest for the system to work.
I agree. Honest and courageous. There must be some law of the human universe that says we need a critical mass of both, or nothing works, not matter what the structure.
Angie, it’s unbelievable to me to think that we aren’t even talking to the Syrians, Iranians, Lebanese.
I mean, really, the prime directive is secrecy; they could be having regular lunches and all and we’d never know it. So I (wrongly)assume they are doing due diligence, having secret talks and just lying about it as a matter of course. Not everyone has gone mad, right?
And then I read something like the presser transcript you quoted and Tony’s doin’ the pony but he can’t hide it - we AREN’T EVEN DOING DUE DILIGENCE. And then I remember.
I’ve been aghast for much of the last 6 years as bad went to worst in a hurry, skipping right over worser, but still it’s always such a sock in the stomach to realize just how worst they are.
hey we are upstairs.
Oklahoma kiddo @
47
Hmmm.
Possibilities in current decision space?
State-by-state (one track)
Novel litigation (track 2)
Federal law (track 3: for which surveyors will be in our continent any day now)
I’m guessing tracks 1 and 2 will see the most traffic.
cupholder @ 75
Show me where she has stated she wants to remove ALL oversight enforcement threats.
My friend has a very small independent financial services firm, and the expense and bureaucratic hoops he has to jump through due to S.O. are ridiculous and unnecessarily punitive. He’s not Enron.
Indeed, just listening to my friend, I’d say Sarbanes Oxley could use some amending.
You can fix a law without gutting it.
cupholder @
75
cupholder, who are your pure-as-the-driven-snow political favorites? Your link is from 2005, nobody predicted Dems would win the House AND the Senate last year. WTF was Pelosi doing supporting Murtha against Hoyer? You figure she did that, because she wants to cozy up to the GOP? They’re politicians, nobody’s perfect, would you rather have Steny as Speaker?
Mary @ 5:05 pm (#17)
I wrote a short list of impeachable offenses here. I don’t know if that’s what folks are refering to or not. I never wrote a laundry list of DoJ problems, though, so I’m pretty sure they were talking about something you and/or LHP were writing about.
Since then, of course, the MCA has inoculated Bush and others concerning the black sites, etc., and we’ve learned that there’s nothing that ties the President to the outing of Valerie Plame Wilson. Still leaves us a few items, though.
looseheadprop - I assume the reference to SOX being simple is a joke? God, it is beastly to implement.
Some tech vendors are making a killing selling stuff with the line “if you dont do this you will go to jail!”
LHP - how come you are so smart?!?
good thinking!
Whoa there.
Ask any soul working in the finance department of a publicly-owned corporation how long it took to implement changes related to SOX.
It’s simple, easy, and you can implement tomorrow. Just a thought.
Hardly. But the concept is still sound. It’s not unlike the ISO9000 standard used by manufacturing - document what your rules and policies are, and then invite a 3rd party in to ensure you are following them.
It’s like having your partner check your work before turning it in.
-GFO
Lina, Cupholder, and GuyFromOhio:
The problem with SOX — especially Section 404 — is not the legislation itself. The problem with SOX 404 is that the accounting oligopoly (the Big Four and the Next Three) perverted the legislation to their own ends, said ends being the sucking of huge sums of money out of their clients’ pockets by designing a system that was much more intrusive and expensive than Congress ever had in mind.
All of this hopeful wonky talk is ignoring the fact that the GOP (or should I say the guys *behind the GOP?) are not going to let Congress be controlled by the Democrats. It doesn’t matter who they have to kill, someone will just have to have a “stroke” or a “heart attack” or be killed in another one of the plane crashes that Republicans never seem to be in but one way or another, they will retain control.
It’s funny how with every new day, reality sounds more and more like a paranoid’s dream. I mean, even now it’s difficult for *sensible* people to grasp the notion that Paul Wellstone was murdered so that they would control the Senate. People will look at you as if you’re mad if you mention the fact that Patsy Mink died of what look very much like some form of biowarfare. The fact that the most liberal Senator and the most liberal member of the House happened to die within a month of each other, and on the heels of a Democrats only anthrax attack…seems to fly right over the heads of even intelligent folks.
When you stop and think of the potential profits that the shadow government (the military industrial complex) hopes to make from the eternal war that they are trying so hard to start, you begin to see just how dangerous our present environment is. Think of how much money we put into agencies like the CIA and just what kind of resources that money buys. Now reflect on the notion that a shadow government would have virtually the same tools, perhaps even MORE sophisticated tools, with which to remove any “obstacles” to their plans. They can fabricate a murder that will appear like just about any disease you could name and buy off any number of Doctors and legal officials to back it all up. Such is the power you have when you own the printing presses that churn out money. You see, they can pay *any* price that might be required, and if anyone were to threaten to reveal the plot, well they simply print a few more millions and buy the best assassin/clean-up teams in existence. Nice racket, huh?
So don’t get any fancy ideas of the good things that Democrats are going to do…. they aren’t going to do a damn thing but cheer for President-for-Life Bush when he announces that he’s just massively nuked Iran… because not to would be dangerously un-American. Wouldn’t it? Don’t you have even the slightest curiosity as to why we’re being told that Bushie will reveal his plans for Iraq “next year”? It’s because (you big silly!) by next year, the Democrats will know that they won’t control Congress, and even promising not to impeach clown-boy wasn’t enough to let Democracy work as planned. *That* my friends, will never happen again. “Democracy” is a thing of the past and we’ll never see it’s face again.
John Casper,
Thank you for sticking up for me, but I actually agree with cuphoder. I don’t have any realistic hope that Pelosi will do it. That’s kinda the point.It is simple, there is precendent, and it uses existing competent infrastructure.
Anything that workable will fail utterly to provide needed Kabuki and might actually work, no beltway insider will tolerate it.
My point, maybe too sublte, is this is not hard IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO REFORM.
(and burnspbesq has hit the nail directly on the head about SOX, which is next in line for gutting after McNulty evisterated the Thompson Memo)
Hmm, tough call:
Create a new bureaucratic mechanism…
or…
DO YOUR FUCKING JOB AND CONFRONT THE PROBLEMS AND PEOPLE CAUSING THEM.
Yeah, I see how that would be a hard call, actually.
lhp @89:
You and I may have to agree to disagree about the merits of certain aspects of the Thompson Memo. However, the indisputable facts about the recent changes are that (1) DOJ overreached in the KPMG investigation, (2) the judge handling the criminal trials of the former KPMG partners slapped them around about it, and (3) DOJ had to respond to the judge’s criticism.
FWIW, I’m not sure I agree that KPMG’s actions in conditioning reimbursement of former partners’ legal fees on their cooperation with DOJ’s investigation of the firm really denied anyone’s right to counsel — but the judge thought so, and his opinion matters more than mine.
Final note: it is, I suppose, wonderfully ironic that in its marketing efforts, KPMG is now referring to the monitor and the other things it agreed to in the deferred prosection agreement as positive differentiators vs. the competition (”Our work is of the highest quality — it has to be, because we’ve got DOJ looking over our shoulder on a daily basis.”).
The answer is quite simple, feasible and cheep, really: make congressional pins into GPS transmitters. Make a public version of the data available showing location on a very general resolution (blocks in DC, cities outside the US even, so as not violate privacy) but which makes apparent all trips, ect.. The Internet will police them. We’ll all get RSS feeds every time our congressperson crosses state lines, and we’ll they’ll just be required to provide receipts. We have a right to know exactly where they are while doing our business.
Also, the daily itinerary of every congressmen should be available easily to every citizen. My boss can read my email, how come I don’t get daily updates on MY employees whereabouts? Who they meet with and what business they conduct in their offices is just as important as the bills they (don’t read but) pass.
Clearly everyone has recognized the brilliancy of the idea to Wiki-ize the bill process. Having a secure-but-public, electronic version of all legislation available which clearly shows authorship of all amendments in real-time would bring our government into the 21rst century and must be done.