Taylor tells us that all the Presidential Hopefuls on the "D" side are banging the religion gong hard. In addition, Hillary Clinton has been hanging out with Holy Joe and scolding folks about violent video games.
If it's really sincere and not just a cynical ploy for votes, they really need to do something about this:
A Wal-Mart spokeswoman said the retailer has no plans to pull Left Behind: Eternal Forces from any of the 200 of Wal-Mart's 3,800 stores that offer the game, including just seven in California. The nearest are in Chico and Redding.
"We look at the community to see where it will sell," said Tara Raddohl. "We have customers who are buying it and really haven't received a lot of complaints about it from our customers at this time."
Clark Stevens, co-director of the Campaign to Defend the Constitution, said the game is not peaceful or diplomatic.
"It's an incredibly violent video game," said Stevens. "Sure, there is no blood. (The dead just fade off the screen.) But you are mowing down your enemy with a gun. It pushes a message of religious intolerance. You can either play for the 'good side' by trying to convert nonbelievers to your side or join the Antichrist."
I look forward to hearing from our party leadership who have chosen to make an issue of this. I'm sure they'll be weighing in on it at any moment.
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Jane!
blergh on Joe and Hill.
and pooh on Wal-Mart, too for selling the new Crusades.
You know, I must have missed that “mow down the blasphemers with a machine gun” part of the Bible in Sunday School. Ahem.
(And yes, I am now home safely. All is right with the world…)
Oh, welcome home Christy! Did you have fun and interesting conversations? I am sure you rocked!
Lieberman and Hillary. Talk about throwing my switches. I need to calm down, now.
Thoughts with Tim Johnson’s family. We are all South Dakotans tonight.
.
… HillDog ain’t gonna come out against WalMart; wasn’t she on their Board?
Ah, but you see, all the extremist fundamentalists have received a special 007 designation from God himself.
They get the updated version of “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. Theirs has the addendum “anyone who agrees with you”.
Welcome home Christy.
Oklahoma kiddo @
4
Ok k – you are funny.
ReddHedd!
angie at 3 — I did — lots of fun, very interesting discussions with some amazing speeches given as well. And I got to grab some coffee with lisadawn this morning. :) It was a nice bonus before my big drive home.
Luckily, there was a well-placed outlet mall about halfway home — so I had to stop and stretch my legs a bit by walking around and giving my credit card a little exercise. *g*
SusanD— 707!
Joe will argue “It’s only harmless fun,” and Hillary will triangulate, saying she would prefer that the game manufacturer make an exception for non-atheistic Jews…
shopping!
Clinton/Lieberman in ‘08. A balanced ticket.
Come on Al!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
hee hee! good for you!
did you get to meet Amy? lisadawn and coffee in the morning– nice.
That game sounds creepy. Even if it isn’t blood and guts violent, this is an important time for our leaders to speak out against religious intolerance.
Repost:
It’s getting to be Christmas cookie time. Anybody have a favorite recipe you’d like to share?
okk omg hush with that ticket talk.
I posted this a couple of weeks ago. Now it is On Topic.
My wife mentors intern teachers. One of the interns has a class which includes an even higher percentage of evangelicals and fundamentalists than is usual around here. Some of the kids are lazy or inattentive – like they don’t care bacause, after all, the Rapture will be here soon.
The intern has found one phrase which gets these kids motivated “You don’t want to be left behind, now, do you?”
Hillary and Joe will surely be out there soon with strong statements condemning Wal Mart on this. Not….
Oklahoma kiddo @
13
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
…..and God said to the peacemakers, bite-me and eat lead, maggots.
I think that is in Leviticus somewhere.
-GSD
The Editors at The Poor Man Institute have what is probably the funniest take on Obama’s electability.
This doesn’t mean I support this discussion of Obama in regards to electability. I don’t. I just think this is hilarious.
pagans for Clinton/Lieberman!
They are the pro-witch ticket:
everyone they meet hopes some magic will animate their withered souls.
FDL has been an embarrassment of riches today. Lot’s to read and think about. Have to say I’d really like to see the Dems in Congress put in some kind of zero tolerance program for corruption, and they can start by showing my Rep (’Dollar Bill’ Jefferson) the door. I’m sure the FBI will get him eventually, but they do take their time to build cases …
I want to get all the pundits hooked up to a gizmo like this (from an early episode of The Simpsons) and give them a non-lethal dose of electric shock every time they try to hype a candidate for 2008.
Christy Hardin Smith @
2
Welcome back. You’ll have to tell us about the conference, I hope?
Re the Bible, there are lots of gory scenes, especially in the Old Testament. Our Revs et al can weigh in. No machine guns, for sure, but a pretty murderous use of the Red Sea, a monster species threatening flood, a plague of locusts, spirits killing all the first born in Egypt,then slaughtering the Jews, crucifixions, and so on. That was a pretty angry God, back then.
AirportCat @
22
We missed Christy but everyone did a great job pitching in to help out. Their efforts were all very much appreciated.
But they are all “brown people” with bushco’s and others ill- conceived notions bandied about.
It’s a- ok… get in line and buy one for yer babies quick– they’re flying off the shelves.
No pl*yboy, etc. ’cause “it’s nasty” at Walmart, but marketing to babes who must be taught to hate and kill is great.
very sick stuff, imho.
Republicans have gay weddings for batting practice. Lieberdems have video games.
Why don’t they try protecting laws already on the books?
Why don’t they try restoring some lost liberties for a change?
Because it’s a way for Hillary to pretend some fundies will eventually like her.
And Joe likes to whack away at any empty shiny object, like freaky kids toys.
Senators, get a life and do your jobs.
(I might start calling that format eureku’)
C-Span 2 is airing (at this point the end) of a rather large media panel on the CT Senate race.
AC – I am so sorry about your Congressional representation. I’ve asked my Congresswoman to not seat Dollar Bill. Others may tell her so here.
This videogame thing reminds me of a former colleague of mine, who told about intervening between his battling sons. He took the younger son aside, and in an effort to get him to reassess his behavior asked his son “What would Jesus do?” His son replied “Jesus would go back in the other room and whip my brother’s ass!”
scarecrow at 24 — yes, but then the evangelical saviour Christ the Lord came and raised the dead and healed the sick and said nothing whatsoever about mowing down the heathens with an assault rifle. I think the Left Behind people have some ’splaining to do — to the Big Guy — and not just to their bank balances.
I’m thinking Jesus will not take kindly to being used as an excuse for money-making on the backs of exploiting people’s violent tendencies as a means of selling games to make a hefty profit for their own personal
money lenders in the templebenefit.Eureka– check this out, I did not know what to do when I read this earlier:
http://www.hillnews.com/thehil…..hguru.html
TeddySanFran @ 29
Thanks, I think I will tell her.
Christy, if you haven’t noticed that modern-day Christianism has become about filthy lucre and authoritarian dominance and submission, you haven’t been going to the right churches.
Jesus’ views aren’t really relevant anymore to the Christianists.
Another spoiled rotten punk son gets his comeuppance and loses his job.
Pinochets’ grandson dismissed from Chilean army after disparging judges at Augusto’s funeral.
Smell ya later, fascist asshat.
-GSD
Teddy at 34 — well, that’s not how things are at WV churches that I know of — of course, we are usually about 15 years behind the curve on that sort of thing. Who knew that Jesus was about the bling?
Re Walmart:
I heard John Edwards say that 50 percent of the children of Walmart employees are on Medicaid.
OT..Tim Johnson…Both Wolfie and Scarborough..Jee were are so sorry..then if he is replaced with a Repub., breathless with excitement..Cheney will have the decisive vote, blah. blah. It’s pretty sickening. What has completely gone off the radar screen is the condition of Craig Thomas.
Jane at 25 is absolutely right — everyone was AMAZING pitching in while I was in DC. And it was very much appreciated by me. :)
angie @ 32
Would that be the Sideburns Strider of evangelical vote-gittin’ fame?
scarecrow @
24
There is one psalm, the number of which escapes me at the moment, which speaks approvingly of bashing the skulls of the enemy’s infants against a rock.
That meme of “culture of life” appears not to have been part of the public discourse in those days, eh?
Jane writes: I look forward to hearing from our party leadership who have chosen to make an issue of this. I’m sure they’ll be weighing in on it at any moment.
I just hope you’re not holding your breath. Incidently, while perusing the WaPo for news about Sen. Johnson, I came across this little gem:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/
Where folks are discussing the “intellectual” basis for the notion that this is a nation founded on Christian principles. So far, no one’s caught on to the idea that they’re actually Greek and Roman principles, with a little Babylonia thrown in. ;-)
ReddHedd –
I’m so glad you’re back, and so proud of all the wonderful work you do!
Blessings on you and your family this Christmas/Holiday season!
Well, at least they aren’t bashing the skulls of the enemy’s fetuses against a rock…
I b’lieve so hackworth. Clyburn and Pelosi know him well.
Cujo– that’s Quinn and Meacham.
ick.
Cujo at 42 — Oh, suuuuure. Throw some history and mythology comparison in there, why don’t you. Sheeesh. *g* Babylonian Gilgamesh, anyone?
I actually called Hillary’s office and the mayor’s about this. It’s supposedly set in New York City. I am pretty pissed that they are getting their rocks off by imagining violence against the people of my town.
Hillary has clearly staked her 2008 claim to the Lieberman wing of the Democratic Party. That ain’t me. Is it any of y’all?
So how do we get a response from Hillary. Should we send her a copy of the Left Behind game?
Christy, yeah, those later books are different. When you mentioned “the Big Guy,” I thought you meant Clinton. Oh my! ;)
My favorite “end times” passage…
In the world of science:
Earliest flying mammal discovered
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci…..176061.stm
The 125 million year old mammal is described as squirrel-like. It was found near the remains of a prehistoric moose.
A picture of the find can be found here:
http://www.seacoastonline.com/…..1curr2.jpg
Mrs. K8 @
41
Psalm 137. When I set that Psalm in a way which identified positively with the plight of Palestinian Christians, I was skewered.
Most composers who set Psalm 137, leave out those inconvenient lines.
UptownNYChick @ 47
Yeah, where’s Bloomberg on this crap?? He needs some pressure. Good work, UNYC.
Jane Hamsher @ 25
Your fill-ins were great, and they were appreciated by the readership as well. FWIW, I think they should all be invited to make occasional contributions, not necessarily on a schedule, but when an area of their expertise (or interest) becomes topical.
OT..but sickening..from TPMuckraker
A priest’s and nun’s mission to find the mother of a nursing baby was thwarted today after they said officials from Camp Dodge would not let them inside to tell their story.
Sister Christine Feagan, from the St. Mary’s Hispanic Ministry, and The Rev. Jim Miller, who is a priest from the St. Mary’s Parish, both said they drove to Camp Dodge [an ICE detention center] this afternoon to find out the status of a nursing mother who was deported and nursing a baby. . . .
“Camp Dodge” I wonder if that is part of the $385 million KBR concentration camp project?
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002151.php
scarecrow @ 24
Which God do you want to talk about? There were lots of different Gods that appeared in the Hebrew Scripture (all using the same name, of course . . . . well, not quite, but all supposed to be the same deity). The question I always ask those who show up to “study” with me, is “How is the agenda of the compilers of the Bible reinforced by including this story?”
For the most part the stories are about who is “in” and who is “out” and why the one true God is better than all the others. That agenda is pushed in both the Hebrew and Christian scriptures. For those who want to believe it, they will find evidence to further their case. For those who don’t, same thing. All scripture from all religions exists to push an agenda or a path. In western traditions it’s about power. In some Eastern traditions it is as well.
This whole Left Behind thing makes me angry. NO religion should be pushing anything that promotes violence over love and justice. Period. If we keep doing the same crazy stuff we will keep reliving the same crazy stuff.
And no, I don’t expect Hill or HoJo to do anything about this. Why would they? They like to kiss up to the corporations. It’s who they are and what they do. MallWart is not to be messed with as far as they are concerned.
hey jane…great to see you
off topic
one of your posters (pjf) cought a very incriminating screenshot of some searches to smear the fitzster
have a look here
http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com/
it’s the “opening throws” of the wurlitster, getting ready for the attack
AirportCat @
54
I think that is an excellent suggestion.
Jane –
You make a most excellent point here.
Now, here’s the question — what can we do to guarantee that this very question (about the disgusting “Left Behind” video in Walmart stores) gets placed front and center before the usual suspects (I hate to even type their names) such that they HAVE to respond publicly?!?
I would LOVE to see that happen!
Question for everybody –
It was several MONTHS ago that I first read about this disgusting “convert or die” monstrosity of a “game.”
I read about it on a blog, linked through Daily Kos — it was a blog concerned with the theocrats, but its name didn’t immediately trigger the thought of that subject matter. The blog was involved in a pretty public argument over the contents of this video with the creeps who designed and marketed it.
I can’t remember the name of the blog in question, but I’d love to go visit it again to see what they’re saying now.
Can anyone who knows the name of this blog jump in and help me out?
angie @ 32
I always watched Hillary waltz in and out of Pulaski Heights Methodist Church, in Little Rock as a kid. Not a fundie church at all. Her campaign could take consultant classics beyond any we have witnessed to date. I guess Rev. Falwell won’t invite her for a chat.
How does everyone like the more frequent posting? I think we’re going to be going toward that.
Yay, RevDeb– I completely agree. No religion really does; they all teach peace and tell stories of violence.
It’s people who use religion for their political and other interests that twist the real meaning, imho.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
the ongoing content is incredible
gonna get me fired though
scarecrow @ 24
Maybe I can find it, but a while back someone put together a list of what might, under other circumstances, be considered crimes against humanity in the Bible. I’ll see if I can find it. Joshua, in particular, was quite the little pillager. Women and children of the tribes he conquered seem to have represented potential new enemies. Of course, his god completely supported him in these efforts. How do we know this? Because he said so.
Joshua 10:40-41:
[emphasis mine, of course]
http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl1.htm
Gimme some of that old time religion.
That’s not the site I found before, but it’s the same idea.
Posturing and pandering to idiots via stupid talk, censorship, gay bashing, feminist bashing, flag burning amendments and such are the zeitgiest thanks to the rethugs and their MSM. Our 50’s era crewcut culture imprinted on society by the rethug movement and their media arm demands that false piety and sanctimonious hypocrisy be demonstrated daily by our elected representatives. They are doing their jobs as they see fit.
Liberals or progressives - proponents of The Enlightenment – must suffer with this horse pooh.
TeddySanFran @ 53
Any other nyc residents offended that the evango-fscists are taking aim at our city can email Bloomberg here.
angie @ 45
Sorry, should I have warned you? I always thought the phrase “America is a Christian nation” would serve as all the warning anyone would need that we were headed for the ozone, but I must admit to some prejudices in this area.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
I love the new front pagers, I learned lots.
I would prefer that it not move too fast, though.
A large part of my love of this blog is having the time to watch a topic take root and be able to engage and learn.
Mrs. K8 @ 59
Most likely Talk2Action. They are the ones taking on the theocrats and doing a fine job of it.
off to bed
g’night christie, g’night jane, g’night firedogs…keep the light on here @ teh lake…might be back L8 night
TeddySanFran @ 48
My contempt for Joe Lieberman knows no bounds.
(Inspired by punaise).
I can now check “daily affirmation” off my to-do list for the day.
“If it’s really sincere” posits Jane, and of course anyone who’s been following Joe and Hills for the past 6 years knows that they don’t actually know the meaning of the word “sincere.” Joe’s career is ready for a suspended animation tank, but Hillary might be running for President, and it’s shocking to me that anyone who calls themself a liberal or a progressive would support her at this point. She’s about one shade bluer than Holy Joe, and just better at keeping her mouth shut about it.
Al Gore is the guy who can actually lay claim to the sincerity mantle, after opposing the Iraq War before it got started, going to LA to help out in the immediate wake of Katrina, and pretty much everything else he’s done. If anyone doubts the sincerity of this guy, check out the video Spike Jonze made which SHOULD have been shown at the convention in 1999: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDhv15EKJNo. I have no doubt that Al would let that video or one just like it be shown at the convention in 2007.
RevDeb — thanks for the perspective on “agendas” of the authors — that’s helpful. Would like to take your “Sunday School” class, someday. I’m a little rusty.
A little more frequent but not too frequent. FDL is the only site that has comments that are worth reading and I can’t catch up if there is a blitz of new threads. (Bitch..Bitch other sites only wish that they had the same problem.)
Jane Hamsher @
61
Good idea! But don’t move to the next topic too quickly. We don’t want to be left behind. Is that why you brought this up now?
RevDeb rocks even more when we’ve got a topic like this.
Edward Teller –
Bless you for your efforts regarding Psalm 137!
In my church’s prayer group, they and their leadership refused to even discuss this particular psalm in terms of biblical scholarship. Anything that was difficult in terms of cognitive dissonance, or even just puzzling things out with reference to cultural history seemed to be anathema with those folks.
That’s just one of a number of reasons why I no longer belong to that prayer group. (Nor do I still attend the church in question.)
I happen to believe that speaking out in truth is one of our duties as human beings, period. [And it’s a duty for Christians, whether they like to remember that or not. If you’re a person who believes that there’s a God who knows your every thought and heart’s desire, it seems it would behoove one to LOVE truth, to cleave to it no matter what the consequences — even if that means pissing off one’s fellow (so-called?) believers.]
Hugh @
51
Hugh -
I didn’t think that Rocky and Bullwinkle went that far back! *g*
perris @ 63
I like it — IF the result is that threads don’t get EPU’d, but instead remain alive for a good long while after new postings get put up.
I wouldn’t like it if it should mean that postings and the lively discussions they inspire get cut off too soon.
Is there any way to promote long-life discussions?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 46
Well, in fairness someone in the comments over there mentioned that eight of the ten commandments appear to have been borrowed from Babylon (or was it Mesopotamia?). Anyway, claiming we were founded on Christian principles without acknowledging the origin of those principles just seems to me to be just ever so slightly selective about one’s history.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 77
Science is for non believers who are destined to burn in hell for all eternity. Ask Hillary or Dubya.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 77
This is TOO funny. Not I’m off to tell Mr. K8 about this — we have a small collection of Rocky and Bullwinkle videos going.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
I like it, Scarecrow and LHP have been great. Plus great to see Pach more often.
Missed Christy though, glad she’s home safe.
angie @ 68
What angie said. Sometimes I just get through reading an article and following the links, and we’re on to a new article. I do like having folks here doing articles, though.
From over at Jerelyn’s place:
shades of Fitzmas Carols . . . go read the rest. It’s good.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
With this line up of posters, positively brilliant idea. The big Swoop, Scarecrow, Hugh, LHP, Gilliard, Pachacutec, TRex, Howie, Watertiger, Donita, (wish Jordan could pop into comment a bit more), hello out there darkblack.
Amazing how wonderful these folks are!
Sure miss you and Christy, even in a short absence.
Not to fast though… comment quality takes time too….)
One of the potential benefits I see of more frequent posting is it allow the site to touch on more topics, possibly helping to expand the audience.
I like that we’ve been showcasing home grown thinkers and writers, and it’s a shame for them not to have a wider platform sometimes.
I get the sense that this community has been so fertile that building upon it might mean giving a platform to other talented writers and thinkers. It might help expand our reach and create continuing momentum for the site to help us with our efforts in the ‘08 cycle. Plus, Jane and Christy work really hard. I would be nice to have more hands to help manage the content load. I’d like to help more but I work full time, and anyway, there’s so much other untapped talent. I never got into this to be any kind of prominent poster.
What do people think about those ideas? It is a tradeoff, though, because if comment threads don’t last as long, and the community continues to migrate to new threads en masse, then it does change some of the feel for the commenting community.
Mrs. K8 @ 41
That’s just sooo Old Testament
(seriously, though…)
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 77
707!
RevDeb –
Thank you SO much for the talk2action link! It was starting to make me crazy.
Yes, the site is wonderful, isn’t it?
I also like YOUR blog. You do good work!
Jane Hamsher @ 61
Good move
A observed earlier, an embarrasment of riches.
Were it not so, there could be a danger of “diluting the brand”
But I think the additional voices make a great thing greater
Jane Hamsher @ 61
I can’t read FDL at work, so I catch up on posts in the evening and on weekends. I generally try to read all of the posts, and as much of the comments as I can squeeze in — a lot really does go on in the comments. More frequent posts would be both blessing and curse for me, but I would favor a slight increase in frequency of posts (one or two more per day). BTW, I think Jordan Barab writes great stuff on labor issues, but he never seems to get much love in the comments … is he just in a (relatively) low-traffic slot?
Pachacutec @ 86
True. I do like reading the different voices, but it is moving so fast I know I for one can’t keep up and still earn a living. I do like the idea of longer posting times, but for me, I like the dialogue that goes on when we all shift to a new topic. I guess we will each have to make decisions about what topics we want to hang with and which to skip. That’s the only way I can see it working.
Then again, with Safari and Firefox we can have multiple tabs with multiple posts all in the same window. My head is spinning . . . .
BTW any updates on the Rootz site?
AND… more frequent posts means more opportunities for the coveted FitzZed
Hello from Lindale, TX! Our new front-pagers are great! The recent one from lhp on oversight was chock-full of great info. I am very impressed. Wish I could “throw in” more around here, but the demands on addiction suppliers are tremendous.
Glad you ladies have such outstanding relief.
Had a close call today, so my nerves are a little shot. Since I don’t drink, it’s always good to take a dip in the lake.
Is that a pumped- up Sanctorium and Mr. Teh (Haggard) in the picture?
What happened, OFG?
RevDeb @ 92
My brain is full now, I have to go.
Jane mentioned the other night that our concept of the Roots site has expanded, based on community feedback, to such a degree that we want to find a tech leader we can pay to do it right (maybe she did not mention all of that, but well, now I am). Stay tuned. We’ll be working on a community barn raising by and by.
My only whine is that I get home from work fairly often at 11:00 p.m. PST and this place is all about “g’nite, everyone.” For a while I thought my comments were scaring people away, but I’ve noticed things slow down at latenight at about the same time whether I post or not.
Some blogs seem to stay more active overnight, but I haven’t figured out how it works for them, but not so much for fdl.
Pachacutec @ 7:07 pm (#86) – What do you mean by “more hands to help manage the content load”? What sort of hands?
AirportCat @ 91
Yes, I’ve noticed that; why is that? I look forward to his posts.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
I like it. I love having the diversity of voices and reading what longtime commenters have to say when given more space.
I’d love to see the expanded posts include a wider range of issues too. People have different expertises and it’d be great to see some more posts on local organizing, grassroots activism, successful advocacy work, and policy explanations for subjects that we talk about, but don’t get into the details.
Mrs. K8 @ 89
Thanks . . .when I get around to it it is rewarding. I’d have to have a much higher commitment to posting on it than I do right now in order for it to really become anything. ‘Tis the busy season at work right now but I ought to get back to posting, just to exercise my brain a bit.
The Talk2Action folk are very dedicated to dispelling the myths of the theocrats. And moiv writes absolutely the BEST posts on repro. choice of any blogger anywhere. She works in the clinics and knows the reality of it inside out. I can’t recommend her posts highly enough.
One trend I noticed change in over the last few months is the early OT in a new thread. Six months ago it felt like (an unspoken rule) 80 to 100 comments would go by before that would happen. In general I thought that was respectful to the poster and their ideas, nice development time for comments as well.
I like the idea of more frequent posts, if implemented judiciously.
There have been times when I thought new posts went up too fast, while a good discussion on a previous post was still active.
Other times, long lags seem to occur between comments. Whether this means there just aren’t very many commenters on board at the time, or that the subject matter does not interest those who are here, I do not know. But at times like that, it would be good if the moderator (or whoever posts the articles) always had another article on hand to get things going again. Having more people write articles would make that possible.
In any event, I have enjoyed the guest posters. And I am happy to see Jane and Christy getting a little time off.
EPU’d from previous thread: Someone was asking about a list Mary wrote up of possible impeachable offenses. I remembered having written a list, so I linked to it here (in the previous thread):
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-418413
Just in case someone was thinking of that list.
Oooh…torn about the more frequent posting.
200-plus comments gets a bit deep.
Less than 100 means we might not cover a topic thoroughly (see the post earlier today about NARAL; we’d only just begun to make progress on ID’ing the directors when a new thread popped up).
So, based on anecdotal evidence, there may be an optimum thread length between 100-150 comments.
There’s also an optimum thread timing. Comments have been made (during heated exchanges, but of note anyhow) that when posts are up too long, they leave an impression that affect FDL brand. Yet another factor; is a thread that is only 100 comments long during peak viewing but up more than 2 hours in need of a refresh? probably.
The only other option I can see is moving to a three column format more like Big Orange – a center column dedicated to the theme of the day and/or coverage by the primary FDL brand with a slower refresh rate and secondary coverage that refreshes more quickly.
Food for thought.
Pachacutec @ 97
missed the update. Thanks. Wish I could read every post, but . . . .
Jane Hamsher @ 61
Yay!
The main page postings rock, and each offers new vistas and new infromation.
What’s not to like about more of that good stuff?
RevDeb @ 56
Bless you, RevDeb.
Chimpy McCodpiece says the enemy is “far from being defeated”.
(Snip)
Barry McCaffrey, who was one of three retired Army generals who met with Bush at the White House on Monday, said in a telephone interview that while he does not know how Bush will alter his military strategy, he worries that the president may opt to send tens of thousands more troops to reinforce Baghdad.
Bush in the tank.
-GSD
Eureka Springs,AR @ 103
i have been guilty of that, but my brain and stomach can only hold so much breaking news or disgust and our reputation as a nation is sinking so fast, that i feel the need to share.
(i think it’s Clinton’s fault.)
or, maybe it’s the fact that news breaks all over the internets constantly and there is a rich and fertile garden out there in the world that our CM does not touch on much.
I am sorry for my part if I am being disrespectful to the posters.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 77
spew alert!
ouch – red wine (pulled out of my hat)….
Whatever you do, (((Jane and Christy,))) keep it fun, take breaks, and please don’t burn out!
I’ve gotten a little farther in my search for biblical atrocity, and came across this page:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/…..ities.html
It describes biblical passages that seem to approve of war crimes, slavery, mistreatment of one’s servants, etc. They take some of it a little out of context, but if you want to mess with the minds of some not-so-bright Christians, have a look.
angie @ 95
An electricty line, supported by a steel-cable (probably a 3/8 diameter cable) was brought down across I-20 to a level of about 4 feet off the ground right in front of me. I was doing about 65 mph. The wire was not a problem for my big truck, however, the steel cable presented a real obstacle.
It hit about halfway up my grill, popped over the hood as I dove into the floorboard, virtually kissing my floormat.
Miraculously, it bounced over my windshield, but unfortunately, scalped my tractor. It removed my airhorn and disco lights bending one exhaust stack straight back.
The folks behind me were seriously dodging some major league debris. Suffice it to say, business really picked up quick.
Fortunately, I hit the suspended cable and not a group of bikers out for a nice ride. Coulda been real nasty.
All I can think is someone hit a powerpole on a side street, causing it to fall over, with the cable suspending the whole mess. I have no other explaination why it would be stretched across the interstate at a heighth of four feet.
GSD @ 109
Reading Bush’s rhetoric in that article threatens to make my head explode. Bush is doing himself a disservice by continuing to refer to any kind of drawdown or redeployment of troops as a “defeat.”
His words will come back to haunt him when he finally realizes he has no other choice than to begin reducing troop levels.
angie – So have I. Don’t really mean the observation as a judgement towards anyone. Just a thought.
Cujo – Thanks for the link, will follow it soon.
I have a collection of mary comments bookmarked, unfortunately no impeachment specials…)
Thank goodness that you are safe and so is everybody else, OFG.
Completely frightening to read; I can’t imagine how you felt!
wow. Stay safe, friend.
Oilfieldguy @ 114
WOW. I’m amazed that you can put a coherent sentence together after that. I’d be shaking too much myself. Glad you’re OK.
OT — no disrespect intended. ;-)
Yunnus at Stockholm
Lovely article, written by a gentleman who is well-know in futurist circles.
Reminds us not to forget the power of a single person to change the world.
edit: BTW, happy to hear you are all right, Oilfieldguy. Apparently the cosmos (or your guardian angel) believes you have a lot more work to do…glad to hear from you tonight.
Holy shite OFG, that’s nasty. Glad you were payin close attention ( cables are hard to see, even from motorcycles *clears throat*)
Glad you are intact.
Jane and Christy,
I don’t know if it intentional or not, but I like the way most posts are done without a page-break. For folks like me, it is just faster to catch up on a day fairly quickly.
But still, the meatier items get fleshed out, and lure me to the “rest of the story”.
woah, OFG…close call.
adding my voice of support to all the new front pagers.
Thanks for everyone’s imput. I think we’ll be going for more, shorter posts — probably less quoted text, more reliance on clicking through links for background. It’s actually more work to do it that way because you’ve got to do a succinct job of contextualizing, but I think that will ultimately work out for the better.
Oh Allman Brothers’ “Midnight Rider” on the radio. Kobe & I gotta dance.
Now my alternator’s not working. I wonder if the fire in the wire fried it?
Jane Hamsher @ 124
Rock on! See, that mental image makes me so happy.
g’nite all!
Oh, OFG– I am sorry.
UptownNYChick @
66
Thanks for this link, and you don’t have to be a NYC resident. I sent him this message:
Mayor Bloomberg, as one who was born and raised and lived in NYC for 44 years before circumstances took me away I’m still a New Yorker at heart. It has come to my attention that a truly odious video game called “Left Behind” takes place in NYC. Please do everything that you can to prevent its promotion, marketing or sale. It’s a slap in the face of a great city. Thank you.
Eureka Springs,AR @ 112
And to echo something Pach said about how hard Jane and Christy work — my limited experience here has giving me a new appreciation for what they do. Jane does 3-4 posts every day and watches everything else; Christy also does 3-4 per day; and both do extras, like Book Salon, etc. And that’s just the out-in-front stuff. Behind the scenes is something else, and I’ve only glimpsed a tiny bit of that.
They’re very good, and perhaps they write faster. They also know how to convert an idea, plus a few links, into an intelligent post that provokes lots of discussion.
But for someone new to this, I can tell you it may take several hours to prepare that first post of the day, and then another couple of hours on the post itself responding to comments; and I didn’t have to worry about the next two posts. Christy does the first post almost every day, and the next two in rapid succession, while dealing with a small child; Jane picks up the next three or so while working on all kinds of other projects to improve FDL. Her phone is the probably NSA’s central surveillance point for North America.
What they’re doing is incredible. But it has to be exhausting, even if you’re as good at it as they are.
OFG,
Close one.
-GSD
Way to keep your wits about you, Oilfieldguy. Glad you’re safe.
Jane Hamsher @ 124
Lucky dog *g*
angie @ 117
Yes.
Margot @ 100
Let me second the praise for Jordan. I always try to post something in his threads, because labor is SUCH a crucial issue for us, and will only be so much, much more in the future.
The evil bastards who have been doing their damnedest to destroy labor unions and protections for workers of even the most basic sort are NOT going to just dry up and blow away now that we have Congress.
They’ll be fighting tooth and nail to prevent American workers from regaining even a toe-hold.
I want to see Jordan’s postings here continue and be supported by many, many Firepups.
I wonder if it’s possible another time slot would draw more commenters?
I believe that is very difficult to overestimate the detrimental impact these millenialist wackjobs are having on our country and society… Middle Eastern policy, homeschooling, lobbies to use the internal revenue code to suppress free speech in liberal churches, prison ministries, invading countries like Iraq, Osama as anti-christ, Katrina assistance (believe it or not), etc etc etc… all because a few million wingnuts sincerely believe the world is goin end in our lifetimes and that it is somehow their god-given job to HELP their god bring about this grand apocalypse (if that isn’t blasphemy in ANY orthodox/mainline tradition of Christianity, I don’t know what is). It’s insane.
And the fact that they now have video games to help promote this insanity in a new generation (as well as blatently neo-fascist movements like BattleCry) is just as insane.
I don’t think we should suppress these games.. I have too much respect for free speech.. but the left MUST come up with some means of counteracting these lunatics, through education and outreach of our own. And the mainline churches have to jump more aggressively in the fray, and denounce these LeHayist idiots and their books, movies and now vid games, not only as too violent, etc, but as outright, sanctionable blasphemy…. We cannot just let these people usurp our country (and for the Christians amongst us, our faith) for another generation.
Mrs. K8 @ 133
Jordan is amazing. Labor is not a “hot topic” in the blogosphere but it’s important, and Jordan is an investment in educating people so that eventually that perspective begins to creep in, inform people’s opinions and when the right issue/fight comes along they’ll be prepared for it. I think putting his column up is one of the most important things we do, and if people could take the time to read it/comment, Jordan is very good at answering people’s questions.
Oilfieldguy @ 114
Oilfieldguy!
How terrifying.
I am glad you are still with us (and I’m sorry for your truck).
I hope you are uninjured – and even well!
Hope you get the OK (or give yourself the OK) to rest manana.
Wishing you a deep and healing sleep.
Mrs. K8, I have a suspicion that the issue with Jordan Barab’s posts aren’t quality (they are wonderful) or the timing (other evening posts get plenty of traffic). I suspect the disconnect is related to the demographics.
I would bet that a substantive majority of us have not been members of a union at any point in our lives; it’s a kind of cultural digital divide that will change over time, but right now, there’s still a gap between white- and blue-collar usage of the internet.
Jordan’s posts are more like broccoli; we need them because they are good for us, and we’ll eventually grok them if we have enough exposure. I hope we continue to see more of his work, especially as labor-related issues are brought into focus by the 110th Congress.
Mrs. K8, Just a few folks in the comments know much about the subject matter. If Jordan could hang out a bit more while we all sort out some knowlegde and a sense of personal involvement, I think it might help us all. (fwiw)
It is a prime time slot. Can’t imagine a better one. Perhaps a minor rotation would sort that question out.
Sorry, Jane, didn’t mean to hijack the thread with my little afternoon dust-up. I have seen this type of blogging you refer to used widely on the innernets. I have used it a time or two myself. At first, I found it cumbersome, but as I am improving on my research skills for documentation of a particular point, I find it very useful and quite effective.
Remember, when I first started blogging, I did not know how to past a URL into a browser, because I didn’t know what either one was.
I carefully wrote down URL’s with an ink pen, mastered the html link code, and painstakingly typed the crap in.
So, with that in mind, you can imagine how easy I find it now. Unfortunately my time is limited. Hopefully, this next year I can stick my toes back in the lake as a front pager.
Not that this place lacks for talent. I just enjoy throwing in where I can.
What is sad is that Ted Kennedy and the unions held a rally denouncing bushco and the rubberstamp rethugs and the words were pure and true and only cspan covered it.
Mr. Barab is great, imho.
Rayne @ 137 is correct, I believe. We need to climb aboard and the more education we get, the easier it is. It’s the right thing to do.
g’nite, (maybe.)
I haven’t read the comments so far, but…
If this was a video game pitting the Netroots against BushCo, and it was Boehner railing against it, what would the comments be here?
Come on. Class? Anyone?
Wo OFG. Hope you are ok. Pretty scary.
MsK8 I think has it pretty well figured out. I was a union member some 30 years ago when I was waiting on tables in NYC. It was peripheral to who I was at the time, but I have nothing but respect for unions and the work they do both for their membership and for the dems. at election time. Some of the best campaign workers I met at polling places and campaign events in CT were there from SEIU. It is for all of our benefit that we find ways of understanding the issues and working together.
Jane Hamsher @ 135
I’m so glad to see Jordan’s work here.
He is a regular contributor to the occupational and environmental medicine [OEM} list; his work there is also powerful.
I’m also glad to see Christy here today! Yay!
– but only in the context of both of you finding ways to ease your work here.
Selfishly, I’d love to see both of your progressive work for decades:
Jane and Christy, please don’t burn out.
Holy cow, OilFieldGuy! Thank God you’re OK.
I was just about to ask about damage to your vehicle, when I saw your remark about the alternator.
Does this put you out of commission for the next day or so? Or are there ways to get up and rolling again quickly?
Please relax tonight, breathing deeply. Somebody Up There Likes You (to quote the name of a movie about Rocky Graziano, it seemed appropriate here!).
Jane Hamsher @
61
More frequent, as in you and Christy and TRex and Pach – or with lots of guest posters interspersed. “Cause I worry about burnout. The midterms took a lot out of all of us, and I hope we are all doing our own things to recharge our batteries so that we may gear up again for ‘08.
I mean, not everyone gets to take an entire MONTH off to play and relax down at the bottom of the world, you know.
I love new posts, but not at the expense of the posters’ energy. It’s a crushing grind to keep getting stuff out, imho.
Here it is. The format has changed a bit. Of course, many of you are already familiar with this site, I’m sure.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible has some interesting categories of biblical quotations, including “absurdity”, “family values”, “cruelty and violence”, and my favorite, “intolerance”. Anyway, take a gander if you’ve never been there before.
egregious @ 142
I am unhurt and no more disturbed than usual.
Pachacutec @
86
I love the idea of having posters with different areas of expertise, but I do think it’s important to consider that if this change is made that some of the “new thread upstairs” excitement will change, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It will also be imperative that comments stay open for a good while. It may give rise to “communities within the community,” which is also not necessarily a bad thing. I think there are certain topics that interest us all, and some may be more “boutique,” which doesn’t make them of less value. For example, I pass on Donita’s music threads because she might as well be talking about Martians for all I know about up-to-the-minute music. (Now Renaissance polyphony, THAT I can chat about!) I’m sorry to be so long-winded, but I think this may be a discussion that warrants its own thread.
Oilfieldguy @ 148
Thank goodness.
No more disturbed than usual… :)
ahem, Balrog.
Nobody here has ever advocated mowing down anybody with weapons.
We are adults; the people that are selling this really awful game to kids with parents that are not paying attention to anything but their fear and hatred are corporatists.
Balrog @ 141
Balrog, this ignores the explictly religious framing for the violence in the product:
A single Hundred Years’ War in the history books is more than enough.
____________________
and what Angie said.
We cannot dismantle the Owners’ Mansion wit the Owners’ tools.
Torture, abduction, rape, assassination – those are the tools of Langley, Negrponte, Bush the Elder.
The Greek generals in ‘67, Tehran in ‘54, Brazil in ‘64, Chile in ‘73, Indonesia in ‘64….
The tang of iron about the the Owners’ tools is that of blood, not rust.
The ladies of the lake have set the bar very high because they don’t know how to do a shitty job. I doff my hat.
Oilfieldguy @ 125
Look over the scrapes and see if you can find any burn marks. That might tell you if the wire was hot (because, if it was, you’d have, depending on the grid voltage at that area, probably around 13.8kV on the line). That could cause a spike that would fry diodes, etc. But, if there was a sufficiently large voltage spike, I would bet it would have taken out the engine computer, too.
It might not be the alternator itself, but the controller, or any fuses or relays in the start or protection circuits–since the wire took out lights and the horn, there’s no telling without a schematic what circuits those were tied into.
Marion in Savannah @ 149
I’ve suggested setting up a bulletin board or forum for ongoing subjects here. It does have some advantages, including that topics in which people continue to have an interest can continue. The bad part is that you inevitably end up with topics that haven’t been added to in weeks, and at some point you have to make a decision to archive that topic, which of course requires someone who will do that. It would also require moderation. IOW, more work.
A missed opportunity of a sort during the Houston fiasco. Wish jordan and maybe someone in Houstons union office could have posted a few times for a rapid response, with calls or emails from firepups.
Maybe I was just to angry about police horses running over people and 800k bail to be of any help anyway.
Hillary is a DLC pandering insider witch. Republican lite. I refuse to vote for her under any circumstance. I cannot stand her and her ongoing attempts at blatant pandering should be filed under comedy rather than be taken seriously by anyone.
It’s time to end monarchy and move on.
I do not want anyone named Bush or Clinton in the White House in this century.
And if Hillary gets elected, how many think ol’ Joe will be the chosen running mate??? think about that!
Am i mistaken or did I miss the point of the video game reference in the post being a huge eyeroll? Sorta like this one that Watertiger linked to.
montag @ 154
Actually, if you haven’t already, start with the obvious stuff – circuit breakers and fuses. Then look at cables, etc. It’s possible that something like the computer was fried (or one of its inputs was burned out/damaged). That’s the trouble with running random bits of high voltage through a system that isn’t designed for it. Still, start with the easy, cheap stuff and work your way up would be my suggestion.
Jane –
I’m so VERY glad to hear that the FDL commitment to having Jordan here will continue.
It’s depressing to think that most Dems find the topic somehow “unsexy.”
There is a whole huge tradition of Hollywood films about labor issues — particularly those made in the thirties as a result of the Great Depression, and the Roosevelt administration.
Those films are often VERY inspiring, and exciting — some are even very funny (see, for example “The Devil and Miss Jones” about union organizing in a department store, it’s a real hoot!).
So I wonder if it’s possible to get some interest going in unions in particular (and fairness-to-workers issues in general) by taking a pop culture look at this important progressive tradition.
A fairly lengthy list of such films dealing with economic fairness could easily be compiled — and the nice thing is that they often are shown on Turner Classic Movies. That’s where I enjoy the hell out of them — and enjoy seeing the popular consciousness of that very scary (post-Great Depression) era.
Oilfieldguy @ 158
Yes, so?
Never let it be said we can’t take an obvious point and hammer it into a gooey pulp.
Late Nite is up. Helpful hints on how to have gay kids, in a word, SOY. Looks good but I gotta pack it in.
G’night all.
Way late, and about to be EPU’d . . .
Gosh – cooked a late dinner tonight, and look what I missed! Lots I might have said up above, but things move on . . .
Let me add one thing about Psalm 137. The point of view of the psalmist there is an exile, forcibly removed from home, family, community, etc. The psalmist vents all his/her emotions – pain, anguish, anger, etc. – and leaves nothing out. Note, however, that God does not say “OK, whatever you want” to this prayer. In fact, no answer is given. Thus, to say “God sanctions violence” because of this psalm is to read it absolutely wrong. It says “There is nothing that cannot be brought to God.”
I can’t tell you how many battered spouses and abused children (grown or otherwise) have come to me with an attitude that says “I can’t pray to God – I’m too angry.” After I point out this psalm, they think about their anger a bit differently. “If the psalmist could rant like that, maybe it’s OK if I do too.”
Good thread, y’all. Wish I’d been here earlier!
There’s a Wasp on my teevee.
Nevermind, it’s just Anderson Cooper.
Eureka Springs,AR @ 138
Eureka Springs makes a good point here. I know that I’ve had follow-up questions on more than one occasion — only to later learn that Jordan wasn’t coming back.
Jordan may have a tough schedule to contend with, but I wonder if there isn’t some way to arrange the time the post goes up such that he’s available to chat with us further. Just a thought.
I think the game is great.
It should come with a companion game of Islamists convert’n ‘n kill’n…
How best to teach kids about what sets these two great world religions apart from other forms of faith?
How to have a gay child of your very own.
Hey, OFG!
Move up here, take up something safe like winter crabbing in the Bering Sea or flying a rescue chopper on Denali or…..
Glad you didn’t leave your head on the road, Bro!
Hey, Ms.K8. Thanks.
Labor issues should be a sexier topic than most commentators are able to make them. I’m a member of two unions, and the weekly and monthly journals I get are far more boring than anything Jordan has posted.
They’re about to repeat Leahy on C-SPAN.
Almost done correcting essays! One from a young Nigerian woman on our track and XC running teams, about music and magical rituals in her community, is a real keeper. I learned a lot. What a writer!
kirk murphy @
152
With all due respect, I fail to see where bringing religion in to the equation makes it unacceptable. There has been extreme gore in video games for 20 years; I would find it a double-standard to beat drums against this game just because it includes OUR least favorite antagonists.
Cliff Varnell @ 166
Speaking of consistency, can you imagine the howls of outrage over that one?
Peterr @ 163
Can only speak for myself here, but I brought up the psalm and have never taken the view that it implies that God sanctions violence against children.
I do however think it implies the psalmist sanctions such violence. And while I’m happy you’ve found a positive purpose for it in your work with victims of abuse, I don’t believe it was something just written in the haste of the moment under the influence of a temporary rage over the psalmist’s own suffering, if that’s what you’re suggesting (am not sure if that’s what you mean).
There was plenty of time AFTER the rage of the exile was in the past for the compilers of these scriptures to decide whether it was worthy of inclusion — without explaining further why such violence is seen as a good thing. Just MHO.
Balrog @ 169
With all due respect, I fail to see where bringing religion in to the equation makes it unacceptable. There has been extreme gore in video games for 20 years; I would find it a double-standard to beat drums against this game just because it includes OUR least favorite antagonists.
Let me rephrase it: the Christianist followers of the Prince of Peace seem to have a bit more to learn about the Prince’s message, if this is the game they are producing, purchasing, and playing.
It’s about hypocricy, balrog – not (necessarily) religion.
Cliff Varnell @ 166
I’m a religiously active pagan: our traditional worship site for the Winter Solstice here on Ocean Beach in SF is closed to our traditional worship by the US Park Service.
I expect to be arrested in non-violent civil disobedience in defense of my First Amendment right during the course of our rites next week. Hundreds of other worshippers plan to gather with the same expectation.
My religious community enjoys the support of wonderful enlightened monotheists from Christianity, Islam, and Judiaism.
We celebrate the strength, wisdom, and tolerance religious diversity and mutual respect for religious belief (or the absence thereof) bring to our families and communiites.
May this season of renewal allow you to appreciate that message of tolerance and acceptance.
I agree with your last post, Peterr!
And the hypocrisy is rife, not just with the so-called Christians who purchase this dreck, but with stores which are happy to sell it — but would NOT sell more “secular” mayhem because of its violence.
Mrs K8 – The pop culture (movie) idea is a good one. I have read a couple of books in prep for the salon that would have been missed without pop FDL :)
Sort of a reason why I mentioned the Houston strike/fiasco was a missed opportunity of sorts because of the shock value. Jordans post was wonderful but a bit late (fortunately).
Jane Hamsher @
135
Let me “third” the praise for Jordan. I try to comment on his posts, but sometimes I get so angry about what he’s telling us I decide not to rave… Although sometimes after SEVERAL extremely DEEP breaths I calm down enough to rant instead of raving…
Mrs. K8 @ 171
Actually, the compilers DID discuss it further, in the post-exilic rabbinical commentaries. Funny thing, though – not a whole lot of folks go looking for the discussion. It gets into the whole question of anger at one’s enemies (that’s the point – not anger at children) and how to deal with it.
(And no, I’m not suggesting it was a spur of the moment piece of writing.)
But you’re right, that it does seem to sanction a certain acceptance of vengeance, especially when read by those inclined toward (a) superficial reading of scripture and (b) vengeance of their own.
Edward Teller –
Thanks for the heads-up on Leahy’s speech running now on C-Span.
He’s on fire! And funny, too. I love it.
I come down on the side of free speech. The games should have a warning, walmart and other hypocrites should be called out, big time. And Hillary/Lieberman should stfu and do the real work needed from Senators right now.
Most of all nobody should buy such crap!
my .05 for inflation.
Peterr –
It’s nice to know the psalm got discussed elsewhere later. And post-exilic rabbinical commentaries? That’s not something I’ve known about or even heard about — and I’m not sure any believer who hasn’t done lots of study about this would know where to find it.
I don’t know where to find it, and I took lots of theology courses which included discussions of biblical scholarship. Too bad ministers / priests haven’t pointed the way for me when I asked questions about it. Maybe they didn’t know?
Cujo359 @ 155
Well, I suppose there would be a sort of “shakedown cruise” for topics, and those that didn’t generate much “buzz” might be weekly or monthly or something. The initial start-up process will probably be a bit chaotic but I trust the folks here. (After all, if we’re not happy we bitch about it, right?!!)
hey…this all sounds a bit too familiar from a previous lifetime of mine. come to think of it, I was left behind then too. Paging Rael, you have a call at the front desk.
Peterr –
I should add this point –
While I’m not inclined either toward superficial reading OR vengeance, what I HAVE always thought about this particular psalm and other similar passages is that there has been a serious evolution in the people of God over the CENTURIES and MILLENIA regarding their understanding about violence and peace and tolerance.
This is a very good thing, this evolution in spiritual growth. But I think I’ve been dealing with priests and ministers (and in earlier days, nuns) who were not inclined to admit too much that there’s been a BIG evolution in spiritual understanding.
(Of course there are also many ministers, priests, and nuns who DO understand this evolution and understand its significance, as well).
Clergy who don’t like to admit to the evolution of understanding are always so afraid it’ll mean either an anything-goes relativity, or that God somehow will be seen as evolving, too. But that’s just my understanding of these folks — they never come right out and say so to me.
So instead, they seem to just wish I never brought up elements of cognitive dissonance for discussion.
Marion in Savannah @ 181
The good part about a blog like this one is that it can quickly correct itself if the hosts feel it’s getting away from its goals. I don’t know if a forum fits in with those goals, but they have pluses and minuses. They’re good for discussing technical problems, where months later someone might need to see the discussion, and less good at things that are very current or topical. Or, as we say in the computer world, YMMV (your mileage may vary).
I’d guess it would be a good way of supporting projects that FDL is working on, and, as you suggest, topics that are popular over the long term could be added, as well.
Mrs. K8 @ 183
Amen to your description of the evolution of understanding, and also clergy with a serious fear of said evolution. There are also clergy who are afraid of not having all the answers. Combine the two, and you get clergy who absolutely hate tough questions.
Me, I’m more of a “let’s wrestle with the question” kind of guy than a “here’s exactly what it says and exactly what it means” type when it comes to interpreting scripture, especially when we’re talking about poetry and narrative. These are so filled with multiple layers of meaning that to “boil them down” to one little thing robs them of their power.
But back to evolution for a minute . . . One of my favorites for irritating the “nothing ever changes” fundies is to point out to them that Isaiah sets aside part of the law of Moses when it comes to the acceptability of eunuchs within the community of God’s people. Moses says no, but centuries later Isaiah says yes. There’s evolution for you, and it takes place inside the floppy leather covers of the Bible.
“But . . . but . . . “
scarecrow @
24
Hell yes he was angry. Didn’t he claim that the Israelites were “a stiff necked people?”
Pretty hard to pull off all those thingies with little apparent gratitude.
Still waiting to hear frm “our party”. Helllllllooooooo??? Hill???? Bill??? Kill(ers)???
There are over 35 original articles on the “Left Behind: Eternal Forces” game at Talk To Action, the website that pushed the game to initial prominence last May with Jonathan Hutson’s eight part series that began with “The Purpose Driven Life Takers (part 1)” and led to the resignation of a key advisor to “Purpose Driven” book author and evangelist Rick Warren.
Here’s the Talk To Action site section devoted to the game:
http://www.talk2action.org/section/religious_war
Here’s the first installment of Jonathan Hutson’s expose series on the game that has been viewed by about 1/2 million site visitors :
http://www.talk2action.org/sto…..195855/959
Why is it that I mistook the cover of that video game for a gay porn video? it just bleeds homoeroticism.
The Real MSM @
187
Are you really the real MSM?
…just curious.