
From the New York Times:
Iraqis Consider Ways to Reduce Power of Cleric
By EDWARD WONG
BAGHDAD, Dec. 11 – After discussions with the Bush administration, several of Iraq's major political parties are in talks to form a coalition whose aim is to break the powerful influence of the radical Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr within the government, senior Iraqi officials say.
The talks are taking place among the two main Kurdish groups, the most influential Sunni Arab party and an Iranian-backed Shiite party that has long sought to lead the government. They have invited Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki to join them. But Mr. Maliki, a conservative Shiite who has close ties to Mr. Sadr, has held back for fear that the parties might be seeking to oust him, a Shiite legislator close to Mr. Maliki said.
Officials involved in the talks say their aim is not to undermine Mr. Maliki, but to isolate Mr. Sadr as well as firebrand Sunni Arab politicians inside the government. Mr. Sadr controls a militia with an estimated 60,000 fighters that has rebelled twice against the American military and is accused of widening the sectarian war with reprisal killings of Sunni Arabs.
The Americans, frustrated with Mr. Maliki's political dependence on Mr. Sadr, appear to be working hard to help build the new coalition. President Bush met last week in the White House with Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, the leader of the Iranian-backed Shiite party, and is to meet on Tuesday with Tariq al-Hashemi, leader of the Sunni Arab party. In late November, Mr. Bush and his top aides met with leaders from Sunni countries in the Middle East to urge them to press moderate Sunni Arab Iraqis to support Mr. Maliki.
The White House visits by Mr. Hakim and Mr. Hashemi are directly related to their effort to form a new alliance, a senior Iraqi official said.
Last month, Mr. Bush's national security adviser, Stephen J. Hadley, wrote in a classified memo that the Americans should press Sunni Arab and Shiite leaders, especially Mr. Hakim, to support Mr. Maliki if he sought to build "an alternative political base." The memo noted that Americans could provide "monetary support to moderate groups."
………………………………Any plan to form a political alliance across sectarian lines that isolates Mr. Sadr and Sunni Arab extremists carries enormous risks. American and Iraqi officials have worked to try to persuade Mr. Sadr to use political power instead of force of arms to effect change. Though it is unclear whether Mr. Sadr has total control over his militia, if he thinks he is being marginalized within the government, he could ignite another rebellion like the two he led in 2004.
Some senior American commanders say that the efforts to make peace with Mr. Sadr through politics may have failed, and that a military assault on Sadr strongholds may be inevitable.
Falah Shanshal, a legislator aligned with Mr. Sadr, on Monday denounced the idea of a new coalition. "We're against any new bloc, new front or new alliance," he said. "We have to make unity between us, to be one front against terrorism and to liberate the country from the occupation."
Iraqi officials say that the other main risk is a potential backlash against the parties involved in the talks from other leaders in their own ethnic or sectarian populations.
For Mr. Hakim and Mr. Maliki, any bid to join Sunni Arabs in an alliance against Mr. Sadr could invoke the wrath of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the most powerful Shiite cleric in Iraq. Since the toppling of Saddam Hussein, the ayatollah has worked hard to bring various feuding Shiite factions into one greater Shiite coalition to rule Iraq. That coalition, including Mr. Sadr's allies, is the dominant bloc in the 275-member Parliament.
Mr. Hashemi, the Sunni Arab leader, risks alienating other members of the main Sunni bloc in Parliament. Sunni Arab insurgents could also decide to step up violence against Mr. Hashemi and his Iraqi Islamic Party. Three of Mr. Hashemi's siblings have already been killed.
We're now in stupid land.
Sadr once had about 10,000 members of the Mahdi Army. Now he has US trained and armed members.
A lot of people still have no respect for Sadr, they call him crazy, or a pain, anything but the most powerful politician in Iraq. Because this is who he is.
Why?
A couple of weeks ago, he went into the US funded state TV station and took it over, doing two hours of live remotes from Sadr City, where they denounced the government. Someone rolled up into the Higher Education ministry and kidnapped a couple of dozen people.
And it wasn't Hakim and his Badr Organization.
It is late in the day to be talking about rolling up and isolating Sadr as if the Madhi Army wasn't taking over Baghdad block by block. But what is so insanely reckless is that the people doing it are running to Washington for permission. Not even realizing that Sadr's strongest appeal is his impecable nationalist credentials.
When his father was killed by Saddam in 1999, agents came to pay him off. Sadr refused to shake his hand and rejected the money, knowing it was a death sentence. One of his aides made nice, took the money and saved his life.
He has been making one consistent nationalist argument, which is the Americans have to leave, since 2003. He has fought them since 2004.
The idea of the US attacking Sadr is desperately insane. It is a serious question if Iraqi units wouldn't quit or turn on US forces if ordered to turn on their families. But it now means the US has two enemies, the Sunni resistance and the Sadrists. Which is not going to result in any kind of victory, but could undo what government is there and leave Sadr the unquestioned master of Iraq.
It's 2006, it's late to be picking sides in Iraq, and the outcome can only be bad.
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Steve!
I took the latest Zogby Interactive poll last night and one question related to the best solution for Iraq. It presented the options rather confusingly as:
I don’t know which one of those America trying to pick sides between Shia and Sunni warring groups is, but somehow I don’t think it’s on that list of ways towards a solution.
Steve,
Do you think that the extra 20,000 troops reportedly being sent over are going to be committed to an assault on Sadr City? Will we see Falluja Redux as the final flame-out, like the Christmas bombing of Hanoi?
( punt)
( a reasonable conclusion)
When they can’t negotiate, they bomb. (Both sides)
There’s been all to much talk – by McCain and others – of “taking out Al-Sadr” while moderate Iraqis are seeing Al-Sadr as the only one standing up to the colonialists and also trying to protect their neighborhoods. There are no words for how bad it is now – and how bad it is going to be unless we get out now.
Having GWB for your Prez is like discovering that your brother is the Unabomber — except there’s nobody to urn him in to.
If Bush thinks the path to victory goes through Sadr city, then it will happen during the time when the 57k troop rotation is supposed to happen. Jan-Feb? Of the 57k troops, 20k are combat.
Nice post, Steve. Do you think this begins to explain the Cheney visit to Saudi Arabia, the Hadley memo leak, etc?
It’s possible the factions in Iraq are coming to ask US permission to form an anti-Sadr coalition. But it also seems plausible that this is something Cheney et al wanted, and they pushed it. Maybe the Iraqis are reading the tea leaks and are reacting, not instigating. The Hadley leak was designed to clear the way for a “strongman” government focused against the growing influence of Sadr.
No matter what, it does seem insane. We’re inviting multi-variant civil war, with some Sunnis fighting other Sunnis, some Shia fighting other Shia, and coalitions fighting each other. If you’re a US soldier, who is the enemy?
There’s going to be a regional war. And from there?
scarecrow @ 8
A handful of folks in Washington, D.C., from the looks of things.
Swopa @ 10
Well, that should be easier for our troops than Baghdad. None of the WH/neocon bunch has ever served!
If you’re a US soldier, who is the enemy?
Hint: His initials are GWB.
Damn – Swopa beat me to it.
Why would anyone enlist?
“Shock and awe”
“Mission Accomplished”
“Strategy for Victory”
“Stay the course”
“Not stay the course”
“Benchmarks” but not “timetables”
“Until we finish the mission.”
“A New Way Forward”
???
Excuse the OT, but for anyone interested in returns from TX 23, go to Burnt Orange Report and to B and B.
scarecrow @ 14
“Boy, Are We Fucked”(?)
can someone please tell me what ever happened to the War Powers Act (circa 1973)?? wherein the president cannot commit troops to combat for more than 60 days without Congressional approval (or somesuch wording)…
Does the IWR of 2002 supercede this law?
I’m quite certain “The New Way Forward” will allay all our fears. I mean, we’re the United States, damnit. Might makes right. And, Bush is one mighty doofus.
I have a great friend, University Prof and Vietnam Anti-war activist. His son graduated from college last year and joined the Army in the “Special Forces” track (that, from what I read almost NO enlistee’s make). he asked him if he wanted to talk to me or any of his other Nam Vet friends and the kid said, different war, different army. Now, I know the kid is not stupid so I guess I don’t have a good answer except that he thinks he’s doing something worthwhile.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 13
Seems that I read recently that Sistani was in favor of the new government- implying that he is in favor of limiting Sadr’s power…Reports may be contradictory…
You have to wonder who is behind this no confidence vote—
Did Clusterfuck praise the prime minister only to bury him?
advocates of the no confidence position claim that they have the votes- all they need is a simple majority. If that’s true- wonder what’s holding them up- much better to strike quickly one would guess.
Worthwhile?
No one in the White House or the Pentagon realizes how crazy dangerous attacking Sadr City is. Hezbollah trainers are attached to the Shiite militias. Combined with a tour through American boot camp, the Mahdi militia will assure that Sadr City is a death trap for tanks. US troops will face implacable enemies in the rear in Al Anbar Province and in the front in Sadr City. The only outcome is slums to millions of Shiites will be flattened to the ground but never conquered.
George W Bush will have assured that America has commenced a never ending Holy War against all of Islam.
Meanwhile, as this all plays out, the political folks at the State Department are monkeying with the Foreign Service Exam – one of the most rigorous employment exams around (in or out of government), and one that has worked for 70 years to help keep merit at the top of the list for new hires and not political connections. The WaPo has the news on page one:
Great. Just when we need skilled diplomats, BushCo is looking at how to give resumes and references (read: political connections) more weight, and downplaying the role of merit. Yeah, that’s what we need in the diplomatic corps . . . more cronyism.
Go read the whole thing – for those not familiar with the Foreign Service Exam, the description is something else.
But why should we be surprised? At EPA, FDA, and the CDC, politics rules over science. The surprise, I suppose, is that it took them this long to go after State.
But before they can do that, they have to get the funding to make it happen. Perhaps the Dems will use their majority status to prevent this attack on the recruitment process of career diplomats.
Clusterfuck said that he would give his great speech on Iraq before Christmas- now he’s sayin it may be after. Is he waiting for a new Iraqi government?
That would be the perfect political ruse for him..He can claim that the sectarian violence was all Miliki’s fault and that the new govt. will turn things around if we give it time- (blah blah blah- you know the drill).
This may be his answer to how to “stay the course”.
Parents have a responsibility to encourage their children not to join the military at this time.
Thanks for the post, Steve.
fyi– very interesting discussion on cspan2 with Telhami, the Syrian ambassador and others– reaction to the ISG report.
(later– at 1230– Dennis Ross and Mehdi Khalaji with their reaction to the report vis a vis Palestine/Israel and direct negotiations with Syria and Iran)
lina @
17
The IWR is an open ended law specifically used to authorize this one particular fiasco outside of the WPA of 73. The IWR will be viewed historically in future generations as the end of Congressional authority to declare war.
Legal precedent has been established now, any President from now on will be able wage war this way, just get Congress to authorize force, no need to declare it “war”, therefore removing requirements to adhere to the international rules of combat. Convenient, eh?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 13
Only because they live in Stupid Land already.
SeriousKidding @ 18
RAISE THE BANNER OF CHAIRMAN MAO HIGH, AND GO FORWARD BOLDLY!
That’s what that reminds me of—real bad memories of Cold War. I couldn’t believe there were people who swallowed phrases as if they were accomplishments. And now, here we are doing the same thing.
If someone says that phrase “going forward” again, I am gonna hit something. It means nothing. It’s like magic words, wave your hands, say “We’re going forward with” something, and people are appeased. But -poof!- nothing happens.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 27
To quote John Candy: “Oy! That’s gonna leave a mark!”
Matt Browner-Hamlin @ 31
“Funny. She doesn’t look Druish.”
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 28
thanks for the info.
It doesn’t seem kosher for a mere “resolution” to have more legal weight than an “act.”
does it?
Just consider this: I thought the map above was of New Orleans, not of Baghdad. Sometimes I feel as if Baghdad is the ominous mirror reflection of New Orleans.
I don’t know why everyone who enlists does so. But I do know three people and their reasons.
1. Right after 9/11, wanted to help find Osama. Ended up first with a tour at Gitmo and then in Iraq. Osama who?
2. Couldn’t afford medical school. Was told Army would pay for medical school. Got shipped straight to Iraq.
3. Promised a $20,000 sign-up bonus. Took over a year to collect $6,000. Straight to Iraq. Back minus one finger, but the only survivor of a vehicle/IED attack.
Louisiana Girl @ 34
I don’t think you’re altogether wrong. There are the Blackwater mercs, but even beyond that, both are the broken products of a corrupt and amoral administration with its eye on macho posturing and crony capitalism rather than good or responsible governance.
It certainly doesn’t seem kosher but a Joint Resolution of Congress carries as much weight in US law as an individual Act. They normally reserve the use of Resolutions to ceremonial things, but the truth is it is a nifty end run around the Constitution under the right conditions as were exploited by the GOP with control of both houses did with the IWR.
They couldn’t risk a Senate fillibuster of a proper declaration of war so they came up with this. They relied on Americans’ ignorance of constitutional law to subvert it this way so no one could stop what was pre-ordained before Bush came to power.
Steve_G’s latest map tells it all.
http://stevegilliard.blogspot……ghdad.html
Are the toobz to this thread tied? Where did everybody go?
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 39
I was just wondering the same thing.
Hey Fini!
juggling work here while reading …
Steve G – on the map on your site, what’s in all the non-identified sections of Baghdad? are those still mixed neighborhoods?
I’m lurking. Just don’t have anything to add right now.
Ditto.
I was off reading this article from Dahr Jamail– it’s well worth the read, imho.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1211-23.htm
EvilDrPuma @ 40
I guess we just already settled this issue or something. How ’bout them Colts?
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 45
Damn poor timing, Fini. Next question.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 45
I’m a perversion of the American male…I don’t follow sports at all.
But, hey, here’s some good news: my spring Celtic Archaeology class is full. I was banking that this would draw students, and man oh man, was I right.
ummm, I meant – spoken as a Colts fan – not as a slam at you.
Siun — me too; I had the same question.
Also, I thought I read/heard recently that Sunni and/or Saddamist forces controlled access into/out of Baghdad from the West and North — so that Baghdad was to some extent under seige from forces other than Sadr’s militias.
And it never ceases to amaze me how all the militias seem to be so potent. Someone else is training them; or if we’re traing some of them, then it looks like they remember what they’ve learned when fighting as militias. That suggests it’s not the “training” per se that is failing; it’s the question of loyalty, and they ain’t buying whatever we’re selling.
Outed spy, ex-ambassador to settle in S.F.
http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/53539.html
Siun @ 41
Hey Siun! You guys having a warm day in Chicago like we are in Indy?
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @
39
Kos was in low-bagger ninja mode this morning too. Has Granholm signed any legislation today?
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 51
I thought Indy got all its weather secondhand from Chicago. :-P
I suspect it’s a regional trend. It’s fairly balmy in Iowa City, too.
jayt @ 48
I suffer alongside you. I live in Indy. The city has a pall falling over it.
well, since it’s slow, maybe I’ll post my take on the ISG Report:
fwiw, my summary of the ISG Report is as follows:
“Boy, is this fucked up. This Iraq thing is, um, really fucked up. So let’s keep on doin’ what we’re doin’ only this time with feeling and four-part harmony. We’re gonna make a quick list here of the ways in which this thing is, um, well, fucked up. We really gotta try harder. With feeling!. And if that doesn’t work, even with extra feeling and four-part harmony, WHO CARES?! At that point, Mr. President, it’ll be 2008, and your ass will be safely out of Dodge. We’ll see to it.”
Signed,
Your Friend,
Jim Baker”
With appropriate apologies to Arlo Guthrie and all – there it is.
nodding … have windows open and enjoying the fresh air
of course, I open windows when it’s twenty below too …
EvilDrPuma @ 47
Jeebus, I’d loooooove to take that class. Speaking as a Celtic descendant of course. My ancestors come from all over the ancient Celtic world of western Europe from modern day Belgium through ancient Gall and the British Isles and Ireland.
jayt @ 55
And it needs more cowbell too.
Siun @ 56
You denizens of the Lake kill me with that. My cousins from Milwaukee will visit us in midwinter late January or February every so often and literally walk around in shorts here in 30/40 degree weather.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 57
Yup. I have both Welsh and Ulster Scots ancestry (as well as Swedish, German, English, and Cherokee–Euro-Americans being mongrels and all). The class list reflects this, too–lots of Scottish or Irish names, although also one Vietnamese student!
Froomkin, on whether Bush listens, or it’s just staging. Bolten pushes Bush to listen
the “t” at the end of jayt is of course the first letter of my last name – which comes from the river separating England and Scotland on the eastern side of the island…
jinny @ 50
Yay, S.F.!
I heard rumors of this from someone who I went to high school with there.
and Fini – may I take this opportunity to compliment you on your compassionate (Christian?) approach on the thread regarding the death of Jeane Kirkpatrick the other day?
jayt @ 64
I’ll have to second that. The worst I’m going to say is that I’m sorry she wasted her life with such blinkered ways of seeing the world.
LHP upstairs. . .
Someone else is training them; or if we’re traing some of them, then it looks like they remember what they’ve learned when fighting as militias.
That post some days back, with the quote from the militia instructions … they are learning well. It’s just that they’re not doing with all that education what George and Dick and Donny had in mind. (Not that George and Dick and Donny ever bothered to actually tell anyone what they had in mind, what with all the thinking up of excuses for starting a war and kidnapping and wiretapping people, and also planning how to out NOC agents.)
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 59
Hey, I don’t have to be from Milwaukee to walk around in shorts in 30 degree weather. That’s a Tennessee homeboy thang, down heah.
We’ve been in stupid land for a long time. While I watch Iraq spiral downwards from civil war to failed state, I can’t help but remember the role of Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani in 2004. Back then, he and Muqtada al-Sadr were arguably the two most powerful politicians in Iraq, representing very different visions of the future of Iraq. Sistani favored the “quietist” tradition in Shi’i Islam, and showed a strong willingness to work with Americans, while maintaining his integrity. By contrast, al-Sadr led an army and had a determined focus to get America out, by violence and any other means necessary.
From what I could see, I found Sistani to be an inspiring leader. In August 2004, he brokered a cease-fire between al-Sadr’s Mahdi army and US forces. He also brought tens of thousand people to the streets in peaceful protest several times. Isn’t that amazing, that such a thing was even possible back then?
But ultimately, we proved unable to work with Sistani, probably the biggest single missed opportunity in the entire war. The major sticking point was whether the constitution should be entirely secular, or whether legislation should be based on Shari’a. Sistani promised protections for non-Muslims and minorities in general, and I found him believable. But for Bush to accept Shari’a as the basis for Iraq’s constitution would have been a terrible defeat among his Christianist base, so we basically blew off Sistani. And of course now we find ourselves in a place where the Mahdi army has military victory in sight, not to mention the hearts and minds of the Shi’ite majority of Iraq. In 2004, people were wringing their hands about whether Sistani would be a gateway for the influence of Iranian clerics, and now, ironically, Iran is one of the few players with any ability to pick up the pieces of the shattered nation.
I honestly believe that, by letting Sistani have his say over the Iraqi constitution, we had victory within our grasp. It makes me incredibly angry that the Christianists were able to transform that possibility into the current situation, based on a delusional vision of Iraq as a fertile ground for Christian ideals to flourish. Of course, I’m not 100% certain that’s the way it really went down, but that’s certainly the way it seemed to me at the time, and I haven’t seen much evidence to the contraty.
This December 2004 article in the Middle East Review of International Affairs makes a great refresher. I’m not sure what kind of political agenda that publication has, but the facts seem to be as I recall them. The fact that Juan Cole is prominently cited is also evidence that this article did not arise from stupid land. It’s a shame the same can’t be said for just about anything coming from the Bush administration.
Ahem,
Link to new thread.
http://www.firedoglake.com/
jinny @ 50
Joe Wilson, coming to the Bay area? . . . oh, wait a minute. That’s Santa Fe, not San Francisco.
Out here in the San Francisco Bay Area, the language of the region is “East Bay” (Oakland, Berkeley, etc.), “South Bay” (San Jose), “the Peninsula” (Silicon Valley), Marin, “North Bay” (Sonoma, Napa, Vallejo), and – viewing itself at the center – is “The City,” which of course could only be San Francisco. As a resident of the East Bay, I smile when folks refer to “The City” as “The West Bay.” Drives ‘em nuts over there.
EvilDrPuma @ 65
Thank you to both of you. I just hate it when people refuse to see the humanity in a person, no matter how reprehensible they behaved while here, they still are mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and friends to others who may have lived a beautiful life but now are in pain due to the death of their loved one.
Also, you have to respect someone that achieves an office such as Ambassador of the United States. People who serve in those positions do not necessarily espouse the policies of the administrations they represent. We do not know if she argued against Reagan’s atrocious Latin American policies in private. Either way, her soul is in the hands of God now.
Close, Busted.
:-)
Linky
Great stuff. I haven’t read all the comments and I’m tight for time, so I apologize if I am repeating things here.
First up, if you get a chance read thise great NYT op ed piece which actually recognizes why some of our enemies in the area are our enemies and what can be done about that, in our mutual best interests.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12…..ref=slogin
Next up, Sadr’s nationalist credentials also mean he is agaisnt too much entanglement with Iran, but to an outside observer, they sure seem to have been courting him hard. Hakim, otoh, has strong ties to Iran, so throwing our lot in with him, while continuing belligerence with Iran, is going to be *interesting* at best.
Given that Iran has Hakim in the mix, why do they seem to be making efforts to be nice with Sadr? Think maybe they can tell which way the wind blows in Iraq? Iran tieing all cooperation to US withdrawal from Iraq put al-Sadr in a spot where he has to give Iran a head nod.
As demonstated by the recent World Public Opinion poll
http://www.worldpublicopinion……p;lb=hmpg1
Iraqis support for the attacks on US Soldiers has grown in lockstep with the Iraqi perception that the US isn’t leaving. Iraqis and Americans both favor a timeline, while Bush and his pick for Iraq do not.
Having a campaign to “pick off” al-Sadr is not going to win us those hearts and minds we supposedly need for stability.
*sigh*
Is it too late to give the place back to Saddam Hussein and say, “Here – you take it. Guess things weren’t so bad on average, when you were in charge. Fewer deaths, less torture, adequate food, santitation, clean water, schools for the kids. Good luck with it. Oh – and don’t forget to keep the oil coming.”
Webb Family Birth Announcement
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/12/125314/86
jayt @
55
..and everybody can join in when it comes around again,….here it comes….
..almost here..coming ’round…here it comes…
Steve – odd that you use the word “them” when referring to Americans. Isn’t it “us”?
Anyway – going after Sadr now is like lopping a head of the hydra.
back to work for me.
I’d like to see a tabulation of the categories of missions the soldiers have been sent on, since mission accomplised was announced. Not that they’re big on providing details, but for a while there was talk of destroying caches of weapons.
Are we handing out guns to the Iraqis we’re “training” with the left hand and confiscating these from the same guys during their off hours as militia with the right?
How about a list of activities the troops have been asked to do?
Build permanent bases
Guard contractors
Revenge contractors
Destroy weapons
Blow stuff up
Hand out cash
Hand out weapons
Search for kidnapped soldier/bridegroom
“Train” security forces
What’s missing?
Oh it’s great to see how people tap dance around trying to manage or fix this home invasion. Sadr is part of the RESISTANCE and the U.S. lapdog media can go along with Bush’s imperialism agenda and label anybody who is resisting U.S. occupation as “radical” ohhh or “militant” ewwww or ‘anti-american” eeek, because the FACT of the matter Sadr is anti occupation and the exceptable facts of all human beings, everybody has the RIGHT to resist occupation of a foreign army, unless of course U.S. occupies your country and changes the reasoning several times. however the facts remain the same Bush’s home invasion to control iraq’s oil, just as the British did in the 1900’s will meet with resistance, and SHOULD.
kitty @
78
Because it’s a neutral discussion of events. Not one where I take sides