Tony Blair earned himself a theme song this morning.
No promises, no demands…
We are strong.
No one can tell us we're wrong.
Searching our hearts for so long. Both of us knowing…
Love is a battlefield.
The quotes that Atrios has pulled from Blair's This Week appearance read like something out of "excuses r us." My favorite quote:
Well, you see, you've got to ask, why is it that we have the problem now? And we have the problem now because people are giving us this problem.
Um…yeah. Has anyone else noticed that proximity to George Bush has an adverse influence on Blair's ability to reason and communicate?
But here, ladies and gentleman, is where the interesting reading comes into play. The reaction within the Republican party Wurlitzer apparatus versus the "more moderate" (read: disgusted with Bush's craptastic unilateral order-fests) wing has been a sight to behold. Witness:
A document that many in Washington had hoped would pave the way for a bipartisan compromise on Iraq instead drew sharp condemnation from the right, with hawks saying it was a wasted effort that advocated a shameful American retreat.
The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page described the report as a “strategic muddle,” Richard Perle called it “absurd,” Rush Limbaugh labeled it “stupid,” and The New York Post portrayed the leaders of the group, former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and Lee H. Hamilton, a former Democratic member of Congress, as “surrender monkeys.”
Republican moderates clung to the report, mindful of the drubbing the party received in last month’s midterm elections largely because of Iraq. They said they hoped President Bush would adopt the group’s principal recommendations and begin the process of disengagement from the long and costly war. But White House officials who conducted a preliminary review of the report said they had concluded that many of the proposals were impractical or unrealistic.
The divisions could make it more difficult for Republicans to coalesce on national security policy and avoid a bitter intraparty fight going into the 2008 campaign.
Now, I don't want to get anyone's hopes up unnecessarily or anything, because the winds of political change will be blowing at a pretty stiff pace the next few years as these folks amp up toward a Presidential context in 2008, but at the moment? The Wulitzer is not only down, it's been kicked to the curb by several factions of conservatives who are more used to following marching orders than thinking for themselves. This is about to get very ugly — because the situation in Iraq is not going to get better overnight, and these folks aren't exactly shy about sharing their feelings (read: staking a claim to controlling the messaging apparatus).
And so long as the hawks are driving the messaging apparatus, at the behest of George Bush, the President who would not admit a mistake, this crass attempt to wrest power from the true believer crazies and neocons "debate" is going to keep on raging — because, as everyone knows, the personal opportunism required to obtain a Presidential nod can drive folks to public declarations. To wit:
Notably fueling the skepticism has been Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who has raised pointed questions about the Baker-Hamilton panel's unwillingness to prescribe more troops, as McCain has urged, and its embrace of a regional conference with Syria and Iran.
"It's sort of hard to suddenly say everyone agrees Baker is the way to go when the leading Republican candidate for '08 is saying no," said William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard.
Although it is clear that many Republicans regard the Iraq Study Group's report as a possible exit strategy from a war that they worry could drag the party down in 2008, such plans are colliding with clear anger from neoconservatives, who have been the most ardent supporters of the Bush administration since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
"It's preposterous, period," said Kenneth R. Weinstein, chief executive of the conservative-leaning Hudson Institute, about the proposal for a new dialogue with Iran and Syria. "Talking to them is not going to bring anything but a perception of American weakness."
"The report is a monumental disappointment, for all the hype," said Richard Perle, a former Reagan-administration defense official who strongly supported the Iraq invasion. "The recommendations are either wrong or of no consequence. There is no magic bullet, but in their desire to find something, they found the wrong things."
Many of the conservatives have long distrusted Baker, viewing him as a figure of amoral, dealmaking diplomacy who unduly pressured Israel and coddled Syria when he was secretary of state.
Oh yeah. Anyone else think this is going to get awfully good over the next few months? Because it seems to me that there may be a battle going on for the hearts and minds of the Republican party…and we all know how well that hearts and minds effort has been going in Iraq. The thought that the neocons could manage this one better is laughable.
Someone pass me the popcorn…



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FITZ!
heh – zed
Morning, witchywoman!
It’s obvious to me at least, the Iraq war is all Tony Blair’s fault.
PROJECTION. That’s what this is.
Cripes, it’s Richard Perle, the moron who was the largest proponent behind diplomatic disengagement from the Axis of Evil, including North Korea. What a useless sack of dung, as if he’d know a magic bullet short of getting one in his soft, flabby gluteus maximus.
Rayne at 4 — yeah, the Richard Perle quote is a gem. hehehehe As if there has ever been anything he has promoted in his entire sorry governmental career that didn’t fit the “monumental disapppointment, for all the hype” moniker perfectly. *g*
What a churdhill!
Oh yeah. Anyone else think this is going to get awfully good over the next few months?
Well it certainly *should*.
It comes down to the media, now doesn’t it? One would hope that the media will notice that the customers of their advertising clients do NOT support this admin. However, MSM is, if nothing else, big business. At what point do they break with BushCo and go with what the public truly wants to see?
Mornin Redd
It’s clear that most of the political hierarchy- official and unofficial- is actally PLANNING on losing in Iraq..
Clusterfuck’s plan is to come up with some whiz bang “new road to victory bullshit” that will give him enough breathing room to slip out of office in 08 with the war still raging- and then to have history blame the loss on his successor..
McCain’s strategy is to advocate something that will never happen- more troops- MANY more troops. Then when we lose- he can say- “told ya so” Nanny nanny boo boo.
Dems strategy is to beat Clusterfuck and any gooper who has the bad sense to embrace him around the head and face and render them even more senselesss. The will do this for two more years and then argue that the goopers had their chance..and lost the war.
The Wall Street Journal? Well they don’t really know WHAT the fuck they want- but they’re REALLY pissed off about it..
Christy — you know, I’m sorely tempted to take up needlepoint.
Richard Perle deserves a nice Hanukah present, a pillow with a lovely, handstitched pattern that reads, MONUMENTAL DISAPPOINTMENT.
edit: Sent, of course, with a pretty Hanukah card that says, Happy Holidays! Bend over and stick this next to your head!! Agh. I hope this man is prosecuted for something within the next two years.
jayt @
8
I don’t know, and I’ve given up trying to make sense of it. I sort of equate it to the Automotive industry. We have thought for at least the last several years, the car buying public should be dictating that fuel efficiency is the primary design feature. The industry, however, persists in making Hummers. The public persists in buying them. You tell me, where’s the sense in that? And, is this a valid analogy to the relationship between the public and the main stream media?
Adelman, Cohen and Haass all just want to blame the Iraqis on MTP– Ricks was sitting there sorta bemused.
Their neocon fantasies blown all to hell along with most of Iraq and lots of her people.
Robert Upshur “Bob” Woodward would like to send ‘Eisenhower’ over to Iraq to set the course.
“The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page described the report as a “strategic muddle,” Richard Perle called it “absurd,” Rush Limbaugh labeled it “stupid,” and The New York Post portrayed the leaders of the group, former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and Lee H. Hamilton, a former Democratic member of Congress, as “surrender monkeys.”
And these people have been right all along, so we should pay attention to everything they have to say!
Screw this, I’m going for a bike ride.
Harman on with Wolfie calling for making Iraq “Yugoslavia” and singing the praises of the ISG that would keep 70,000 american troops in Iraq while staging a two year faux reduction to try to save 08 …
with Reyes unable to id sunnis and shia, with Rahm enabling Foley …
tis not a pretty picture and Nancy better get cracking!
Could someone please,for the love of gawd,round up the PNACers and teach them to crochet or something? A hobby,something to do with their hands? Ok,I’d actually like them all in prison,but short of that,I’d even volunteer to teach them something besides war profiteering and murderous greed.(to do this,I’d have to drink,heavily,but I’m willing to take one for the team) Idle hands(and in this case minds)are the devil’s workshop you know….
No one should be asking their opinions on ANYTHING anymore.Ever.
I’m going to go scream into the couch cushions now.
Rayne at 9 — you could charge admission for people to be there to see his face when he opened the package…hehehehe
so – it was all just one big exercise in futility ehhhh. this is getting tedious and soldiers and iraqis continue to die for…….. bullshit
“media and their customers”
It would be interesting for someone from inside the industry to actually talk about how that issue is playing..
There are many heavy advertising groups who are still committed to the Gooper Way- and who have invested millions in bribes- er campaign contributions to make sure that their wet dreams come true…
Oil companies, Insurance companies, Aero-space, automobile, drug companies- all of these have a vested interest in having the goopers stay in the game for 2008…that means that although they recognize that Clusterfuck is a failed president- they don’t want the bashing to get out of hand- and they don’t want the gooper party to go down with him…
They control a lot of advertising dollars- would be interesting to know how much.
Far from spreading democracy through the region, the Iraq war has strengthened a theocracy in which unelected religious figures make many of the crucial decisions.
“So far, Iran won the Iraq war,” said George Perkovich, the vice president for studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “They gained the most by far.”
Thankyou George and Tony. You guys stink.
Oooh…Have to set a reminder for Tuesday night.
PBS Frontline: Is Walmart good for America?
Heh.
I’ve had enough of these short-dicked pusbags and their hated “perception of weakness.” People — entire peoples, and their cultures — are being destroyed by our war machine. Children die every minute so these warriors can appear strong.
Enough. It must stop.
Troops
Home
NOW
The perle posse refuses to take ownership of anything. These self-appointed ME “experts” cherry pick history to suit their fantasies. Guess they missed the chapter on the British ME involvement decades ago.
Reminds me of the grandmother reading to her 4 year old grandson when he let out some silent gas. She stopped reading, sniffed the air & said, “I wonder what that smell is.” Grandson sniffed the air too & said with an innocent, puzzled look, “Hmm, I wonder what that smell is too.”
(emphasis mine)
they left out neo.
It’s not part of the neocon dream, therefore they would rather lose Iraq/Afghanistan/America than risk the dream… and provide justice for all which is in our national security interests.
Great post, Christy. This seems a critical moment, because the ISG report, whatever its faults wrt to specific recommendations, has basically said, “the people who have been running policy and advising our President are reckless whackos who got us into a terrible mess.” That’s the message we can all unite on.
And the whackos are fighting back as hard as they can to keep from being defined as whackos who should be marginalized and never be listened to.
On this morning’s Fox News panel, Juan Williams was pushing the right wingers hard to explain why we should listen to the Brit Humes and the Bill Kristols, when Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean and others were right in telling us the decision to go in was a huge mistake. The ISG report is the official bipartisan statement that says, “this was a mistake.”
So I think we need to keep pounding the point that the neocons are dangerous whackos that no one should ever listen to. That point is catching on, and we should amplify it every chance we get. JMHO.
Happy birthday Rayne!
Blair is pretty much on the hook to resign by the end of next summer. I don’t think Blair’s successor is going to be so keen on being a poodle for the Boy King. Meanwhile, the US has told the UK to stuff it over the Joint Strike Fighter, which has the British really not amused. This is a big slap in the face to our supposed special ally. We’re basically saying we don’t trust them.
Bush the Pissy is going to find it rather tough to stand firm when he has absolutely no other country giving him cover. And after about three months of intense oversight from the Democratic-led Congress I’m expecting some real ugliness from Commander Cuckoo Bananas.
Broad– prisoners make nice potholders out of empty cigarette packs- a useful hobby.
Rove seems to have had full orchestration loaded into the Wurlitzer, all primed and ready upon delivery of the ISG report.
All this tells me that not only is Bush going to ignore it, completely, they’re pressing on with attacks on Iran.
Blair:
Okay – now are we all talking about the same “problem” which is now a ‘problem’ because they made it a problem?
…..and they (Bush & Bush2) are hoping no one notices….
Is Harman a Jeane Kirkpatrick reincarnate?
egregious @ 26
Yes, Happies to Rayne from another Michigander enjoying the respite from last Wed through Fri. I’m ready for spring.
montag @ 29
Gulf of Tonkin = Straits of Hormuz
Baker is just another lieutenant in the Bush Texas mob. Looks as though neither conservatives or liberals or for that matter neocons are paying attention to what this inflated ego nut is saying.
Um…yeah. Has anyone else noticed that proximity to George Bush has an adverse influence on Blair’s ability to reason and communicate?
I find it rather alarming to think that stupidity might be contagious, but I feel vindicated in my policy of Total Avoidance.
jayt @
8
When they see themselves in danger of losing their credibility, without which they are worthless as propaganda outlets.
scarecrow @25 – spot on, once again.
John Burns from Baghdad on wolfie making it clear that the ISG “was more designed to bind up wounds in DC rather than in Iraq”
my question – what idiot thinks that embedding US soldiers (70,000!) in Iraqi units is so smart when they don’t even speak arabic?
The leading Republican candidate for ‘08 would be wise to find a better platform than “Let’s send more kids into a meat-grinder.”
Siun @ 37
Good Point! but even if they did speak Arabic they would still be just hostages.
scarecrow @
25
That was basically my take as well, going all the way back to Thursday on my blog. The only positive from ISG is that after all the media hype about how Bipartisan and Serious and Sensible and Centrist the panel was, it came back and said that Iraq is a clusterfuck, a catastrophic mistake, and even if we follow their wise counsel (snort) it still may not be salvageable.
Wolfie says “the US government is underreporting the level of violence” in Iraq – gee, perhaps good reporters would do something about that?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 4
I won’t quite go that far…but I’ll come close. This might be a different story if Blair wasn’t such a war-enabling neoliberal ratfink. But what alternative have the Brits had…the Tories, for God’s sake?
No matter what is the end result in Iraq, there is still that itsy bitsy tiny little matter called Palestinians. I see no leadership on this issue whatsoever.
Siun @ 41
As does the ISG.
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!
And, oh by the way, I think that most of the soldiers do not like or respect or care about the Iraqis…
angie @ 45
So… we just keep the ones there who do. Problem solved!
Siun @ 37
Yes, and that was clear from the outset (bind wounds in DC), wasn’t it. And your point is cogent to both issues in that the ISG had no experts on Iraq, per se, and very few who had current middle east experience whatsoever. It was always a CYA hail mary for junior; and, the only really interesting result is the petulant response from the spoiled brat. I’m sure 41 would just like to have him taken out to the woodshed, but Barbara is probably too old for that now.
Eli @ 35
I have a Bullwinkle coffee mug, with the phrase:
Stupidity at Epidemic Proportions
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Read Jimmy Carters OPED in the LA Times this week! Explains a lot!
In the end- this is a binary decision- “Do ya stay or do ya go?”
The right wingers are on to the Baker group- who are saying “go” (after one last “try” during the next two years)..Their criticizms are technically correct- but in the long run irrelevant. This stopped being about bein “right” a long time ago..
Since it’s really binary, all the difference splitting “solutions” are really bullshit. They won’t make a difference..
The die on this thing was cast in 04 when Clusterfuck won or stole a second term..he now has the power to keep this thing alive until the end of his term…
He WILL do it- unless goopers decide that it’s not in their interest to let that scenario unfold- cause it probably contains a dem white house and congress..
The game is on!
rwcole @
19
Whereas blogs are relaively cheap to produce, and therefore do no rely on advertisers. Hmmm. Another sort of freedom of the press.
Beginning on January 3 decisive and critical decisions will have to be made. The die has been cast and everyone has a stake in the pot. Only political junkies can get any kick out of anything that’s going around Iraq, including an implosion of the repugnants. The consequences are for the country as a whole and no one can pretend they look good. No one has any idea how to ‘go forward’. You’ve just gotta love that phrase. I’d advise going backwards instead.
On a lighter note: is the start of the Libby trial still scheduled for January 17.
By the way Christy, Tony Blair is a complete crock of shit. He has a way with words but never says anything straight and is totally on the same wavelength as Dear Leader. He bears great responsibility for the mess. But he’s a slippery one and will get out of paying his fines. I can’t imagine why U.S. persons are so enthralled with their British ally: it must be the classy accent or the boyish, endearing pauses and smiles with which he peppers his babbling. He even makes a point of stumbling and stuttering, some of the oldest rhetorical tricks to charm and deceive. Can’t stand the man.
rwcole @ 50
Bush’s reasoning is basically that withdrawal would be weak and bad, so run out the clock and let someone else do it. Retreat will not be part of *his* legacy, nosiree.
puppethead @ 27
I can’t imagine that Blair’s successor will have any political choice but to be less compliant. It’s not likely that British voters are going to shift from Labour to the Tories, but Blair has scraped through a couple of attempted intra-Labour mutinies, and I have a hunch that “Old Labour” is going to see his replacement as being in a still weaker position.
Swifty—You think Clustefuck LIKES having this report come out?
Ah don’t think so- it’s one of the worst things that has happened to him..
He’s going to reject it and get the shit kicked out of him for doing it.. any goopers who support him will get pummelled as well.
Clusterfuck didn’t call for this study- nor did he ever embrace it- even though some of Poppa’s people got named to it.
angie @ 45
I suspect the feeling is mutual.
What’s happening now is that official Washington is both defending the ISG assessment of how bad things are and viewing skeptically the claim that the ISG recommendations will actually work or improve matters. And this was the “centrists’” best shot. What we’re not hearing yet is the conclusion that, “well maybe there’s no workable solution associated with ’success,’ so what are we doing there? Whom are we fighting? And why? Why are our troops risking their lives and dying?”
@ 39 Jane Harman is the Lieberman of the House of Rep.
Pinochet dead!! per CNN.
EvilDrPuma @ 42
I don’t know what one calls Blair politically. He is certainly not a real Labourite, either domestically or foreign policy wise. And I am quite sure Maggie Thatcher, Reagan’s toady, would applaud what Tony the Toady has done for Bush.
Pinochet has died!
rwcole @ 50
Oh, I’d say that’s the beginning of the end. There are still huge logistical issues on ‘how’ to get out — as per SteveG’s post last week about a fighting retreat scenario — and, there is the ever present question of what American responsibility is to the, “You broke it, you bought it,” cliche. But, I agree, all those issues begin on a root decision tree, starting with ’stay’ or ‘go’. If the answer is ‘go,’ someone might want to notify the folks currently building long term military bases in Iraq. We wouldn’t want any money wasted over there.
Eli @ 52
In the end, though, I don’t think Bush is going to succeed in passing blame. Even if he avoids sounding the retreat, utter failure will be part of his legacy. The larger part, in fact.
TeddySanFran @ 33
USS Liberty, WTC93, Vinell in SA, Embassies, USS Cole, WTC9/11, Madrid, British Tubes…..
Visualize a global criminal network so entwined with govt/intel politicians/lobbies and legitimate business that every once in a while they have to ‘go to the mattresses’.
Steve @ 56
Couldn’t agree more. It’s an embarassment that she comes from California.
Eureka Springs, AR @
31
I think that Jeane would have had to have died before Jane was born to be as case of reincarnaion. But we still have time for possession.
rwcole @ 54
It wasn’t his idea, certainly, but (at least until the report came out) the consensus was that it was to give Dubya some cover to withdraw gracefully without losing face (”The Wise Old Men *told* me to!”), but I don’t think anyone expected them to slam him so hard.
I want to know if 41 knew about that part of it, and if so, whether he tried to stop it or gave it his blessing as the spanking Junior never had and desperately needed.
The root of Perle’s qualms about the ISG report
may be found here.
Eli- Yeah I think that’s his position- he can go out with his boots on and some future president can do the “cut and running”.
This is going to become even MORE devisive in the next two years- and people are going to get more and more frustrated…We have not reached the tipping point for “get the fuck out NOW”- but we’re getting closer- another year of this bullshit may do it.
Siun @ 59
About fucking time. We don’t have to say nice things about him, do we?
Eureka Springs, AR @ 57
Well, that’s a situation that strains John Donne’s dictum.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 58
“New Labour” is a bit of a misnomer, yes. To my mind, Blair is the British equivalent of a DLC/Blue Dog Democrat–a tough-talking corporate toady coating surrounding a chewy amoral center.
EvilDrPuma @ 61
I agree completely. LBJ did not escape blame for Vietnam simply because he wasn’t in office when it collapsed. But Dubya is, how you say… not very bright.
Eli @ 46
And that reminds me, I haven’t thought of it in weeks, but was there ever any word about Ahmed Altaie, the soldier from Ann Arbor who disappeared in Oct?
Eli @ 71
…In the same sense that the ocean is not very desiccated.
“Vital Israeli interests”
Yeah- the Golan Heights.
absolutely true, scarecrow.
I just wonder how our soldiers who were told that they were fighting AQ and in defense of America for what happened on 9/11 and that they were gonna find stockpiles of WMD (wearing all kinds of inadequate protective gear, btw) feel? Such confusion and still and yet, they are killing and dying.
How the heck are they or the American people going to reconcile that?
LBJ basically committed suicide slowly after he left office..
Clusterfuck will NEVER do that- it presupposes a conscience.
HotFlash @ 64
Oh dear, Pinochet may be angling for a position. /snerk
rwcole @ 54
Oh no, I couldn’t think anything of the sort. This is a huge big “F” on junior’s report card in every single sense. I can only imagine that HW Bush’s oil/military industrial buddies got together and said, “We need to put something on the table to save junior’s ass because he’s about to bring the whole gravy train to a screeching halt.”
That Junior is too stupid to take his medicine from the real ‘power’ behind his presidency; that is what I find interesting — not amusing — truly tragic, really, but interesting.
Tragedy is characterized by a protagonist having a fatal flaw. In Junior’s case, the tragic flaw is blatant ignorance, so it is difficult to elicit much in the way of pathos. It is a terrible chapter in history, and it won’t even make a good mini-series some day.
The American people really need to find a common voice to denounce the entire political spectrum. I see FDL as a perfect start down that path.
montag @ 69
“For whom the bell tolls?”
Premature reincarnation happens sometimes..
Look at Nixon- back in the White House- dumber and even less ethical perhaps- but there he sits.
Siun @ 59
Wonder if Henry the “K” Kissinger will attend his ol’ buddies funeral? It’s infuriating for me to see this war criminal being consulted by heads of state like Boobie Bush. Kissinger is a disgrace.
Totally OT, but Glenn has a interesting piece today asking “Did Rahm lie about his knowledge of Foley?” The answer is yes.
I remember watching this interview and coming away with the same reaction Glenn did – Rahm had no clue about the emails, now it’s pretty clear he was lying to us all along.
Glenn also has a great series going about the DHS using a serial killer as an informant, with Alberto’s knowledge and consent.
johnSwifty at 77 — it does presuppose an ego of monumentally obtuse and substantial proportions — or a fundamental lack of any ability to actually SEE reality for what it is. Either way, though, it just screams “doofus,” doesn’t it?
rwcole @ 76
It might not take a conscience – his ego might be devastated by the idea that his ultimate legacy is not as the Resolute He-Man Deciderer, but as the most colossal and despicable failure ever to besmirch the Oval Office.
But I wouldn’t count on it. He’d just tell himself that all 200 million Americans who hate his guts are just stupid hippies and nerds, and at least mommy still loves him and tells him he’s smart and brave and handsome and wonderful.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 81
Can Kissinger risk travel to that funeral? Won’t he be arrested on the spot?
shhh.
johnSwifty @ 78
I would make the small addition that it is willful ignorance. Denying all other information gives Bush the superficial belief that he’s right about whatever his “gut” tells him. Contradiction and fact are anathema to him.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 83
all id.
Noonan @ 82
Well, you know, it worked so well in “Silence of the Lambs.” Except that Hannibal Lecter escaped.
johnSwifty @ 78
“A” fatal flaw?
TeddySanFran @ 87
Well, we *have* been saying he’s an idiot.
johnSwifty @ 79
The later line to that is “the death of any man diminishes me,” I think (close paraphrase, at any rate).
I guess Donne hadn’t met any real monsters in his time….
Noonan @ 82
The one who was actually killing people *while* wired? Fucking lovely.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 83
Yep, there aren’t any special words more apropos. Nothing more erudite, and it’s funny you should use that word, I just had this conversation at a dinner party last night and that’s the word we arrived at. Runners up where, ‘mook’ and ‘rube;’ and, I don’t even know what a mook is.
I’m content with doofus. It says it all and he deserves no more erudition than that.
Noonan @ 82
String him up.
rwcole @ 77
rw, I disagree. Not about the conscience part, the other thing. If only to get away from his mother’s constant harping about what a disgrace he is to the family. She might even pull some Crowley magik out of her…um, hat and fabricate him a conscience.
I seriously think he does have it in him.
Swifty- I’m not sure that “ignorance” is the fatal flaw…Someone will capture it’s essence eventually and produce a best seller..
Perhaps we should think of comic characters rather than tragic ones- tragic characters embody greatness- but are brought to tragedy by a flaw..Comic characters may PRETEND to greatness that they don’t possess- and piss all over themselves as they attempt to be something that they are not..
Inspector Cluseau is funny largely because of his incredible failure to recongnize or admit his (obvious) limitations–and is bouyed along the way by incredible luck and an ignorant adoring public and press who refuse to admit that he’s an idiot.
This, I think, get close to the pathos of Clusterfuck.
The divisions could make it more difficult for Republicans to coalesce on national security policy and avoid a bitter intraparty fight going into the 2008 campaign.
oh goodie! I’m sure that the media will be repeating the mantra “but the Congressional Republicans haven’t got a strategy for dealing with Iraq” in 2008 like they did with Dems all last year…..
Eli @ 89
Point taken. I said he wasn’t a good tragic protagonist in a classic sense. But your point is sadly on the mark.
johnSwifty @ 93
Doesn’t work for me – “doofus” doesn’t really convey the petulant malevolence. “frat-boy prick” maybe comes closer, but still isn’t quite all the way there.
Instead of an Up-Pennsylvania-Avenue delegation of Wise GOP Solons like Hugh Scott and Barry Goldwater in 1974, Earthlings need the Mommies — Bar, Laura, Karen, Harriet, Frances, and Condi — to tell the BoyKing the rays in his Oval Office rug are from the setting sun, into which he must now ride.
rwcole @ 54
If you are talking Them with a capital T, things could get interesting. Soon. Taken out of our hands, you know. Do you suppose he’s too stupid to stay out of small planes? Does he have any life-threatening allergies? I hear they can come on late in life.
rwcole @ 96
Except, of course, that in Comedy no-one dies…
There’s an op-ed in today’s NYT by Roger Cohen (I can’t find the cite) that discusses whether Iraq is a “nation,” to which a national army and/or police force could be loyal. He concludes there’s not. “The US wants to hand over a natin to a people loyal first to a tribe or sect.”
He also describes the plight of a Sunni just trying to move around Baghdad, knowing that every time he encounters a checkpoint run by the “Iraq” army or police, it’s just as likely that he will be killed by the Shias who are actually manning that checkpoint.
johnSwifty @ 98
I think the basic problem here is that you’re describing him as the protagonist rather than the villain…
mook
p.lukasiak at 96 — well, I’m not holding my breath on that one…but that is a fabu comment. :)
Eli @ 84
I’m betting that dessicated (love that word) old cow never said anything of the sort even once in his life. But, I’m sure he was ready to build an intense emotional bond with any woman who did. Can anyone think of a possible example…hmmmm?
Eli @ 92
The one who was actually killing people *while* wired? Fucking lovely.
Yes, including going after a DEA agent’s family while wired – oh – no warning was given to the agent, thank you.
The ISG report recommendations are unrealistic. Baker, Hamilton, and the traditional conservative foreign policy establishment they represent saw, unlike happy times Bush, that Iraq was bad. Yet even they could not come to grips with how bad it really was and how fast it was getting worse. Events superseded them. So while their description of the deteriorating situation in Iraq is fairly accurate as far as it goes, it does not go far enough. Where the real disconnect occurs, however, is in the report recommendations. These do not address current conditions but those that might have been back in late 2003 and most of 2004. At the end of 2006, they are irrelevant. Except . . .
The report has placed a 15 month (first quarter of 2008) time limit on the process outlined in its recommendations. It is clear that these can’t be met so the bottomline of the ISG is that whether the recommendation goals are met or not (and they can’t and won’t be) we need to be out of Iraq within that time frame.
The neocons hate this. They will criticize the ISG as being unrealistic and they will be right to do so. Their problem is they will be attacking the ISG report from their own bases much deeper in La La Land. They still have important allies in Bush, Cheney, and the departing Rumsfeld who, like they, prefer a fact free, faith based foreign policy. As for the even loonier McCains and Liebermans, they are off their meds, off the farm, heck, off the planet.
I agree with Christy that this leaves the traditional crooks in the Republican Party in something of a bind. On the one side, they have the kooks and on the other, they have a plan that won’t work. What to do? What to do?
It is a popcorn moment.
While enjoying the disarray, we still need to keep pressure on the core conclusion of the ISG report, the November elections, and 70% of Americans which is we need to get out of Iraq sooner rather than later. This is all the more important as Bush in full weasel mode is desperately trying to find a way to stay there.
Noonan @ 82
Yes, and Glenn’s a courageous bulldog. He won’t let go of that one. There’s more to come on that outrage.
Eli
Well in black comedy- everyone dies.
rwcole @ 96
Oh, I quite agree, but I just can’t go there. To allow comedy into the equation is to admit that I somehow take pleasure from Junior’s idiocy and there is just far too much pain associated with his actions — you’re right, I’m sure, but I cannot allow myself to laugh at him while his damage continues to escalate.
TeddySanFran @ 101
In my extended family, we have a song we sing at family gatherings. It goes like this, to whatever tune catches your fancy:
We are men
We haven’t got a clue.
We need women
To tell us what to do.
We usually chant it in a minor key.
Eli @ 99
I was struck by a line in a Newsweek article this week that discussed the ISG. It said Bush isn’t stupid (or some synonym), he’s just bullheaded and unwilling to admit he’s made a mistake. Just like he refused at first to create the DHS and so many other things, he’ll probably fight this tooth and nail, and sometime next year cave in (when the recommendations are moot).
scarecrow @ 110
Good. We need to know.
EvilDrPuma @ 115
Not just us, though. And that’s the problem.
Eli @ 104
I’m not, I’m not, I protest. I’m saying he’s decidederly NOT a protagnonist. And I’m perfectly willing to say he’s a villain if someone can make an argument that he actually understands the ramifications of his actions. I think he’s just too big of a frat-boy prick, doofus to even see past his next dose of designer ‘happy’ drug.
johnSwifty @ 117
Okay, okay. I won’t prolong the protagony.
I’m thinking of the guards’ chant at the Wicked Witch’s castle as Toto escapes under a uniformed one. I don’t know what the song’s called; I’ve always sung it “O-reo.”
Eli @ 116
You’re right, of course; but still, it’s better that somebody knows than that nobody does.
Hugh @ 109
Hugh rocks!
Eli @ 116
I see this as another front on the war to remove Bush from office. This front is aimed at bringing down A.G. Gonzales.
Mommybrain @ 113
Cute. Reminds me of the “Men’s Prayer” from “The Red Green Show:”
I’m a man, but I can change. If I have to. I guess.
Noonan @ 114
That assessment might have some value if it weren’t for the fact that it wasn’t quite that way–the Bushies didn’t want Congress to create DHS, because that might have limited their ability to structure the department in such a way that their cronies could benefit.
In addition, the original objection Bush had was that some unionization would be preserved under the Congressional plan, and that would have interfered with his desire to privatize much of it. Bush wanted control over what legislation Congress eventually would enact.
oh boy – ed meece and vernon jordan on cnn to tell us about iraq … spit!
Mommybrain @ 113
I’m hearing that to the tune of Leonard Cohen’s, “Hallelujah.”
EvilDrPuma @ 54
the british public have held their noses and voted for blair. they HATE how he is fuckwad’s poodle. they will welcome somebody new who will ignore what our brainless twit is doing/not doing. the only reason that “labor” is still in power is the total haplessness of the tory party.
All this man-bashing! Incivility!
[*clutches pearls*]
mmmmmm. Shiny tasty pearls.
Eli @ 118
I’m refusing to laugh at that too! (but not very well)
whut’ll y’all do if jr’s chosen Time’s person of the year?
naw. rummy’s got that all sewed up & ready to slide off the side ‘a th’ ship.
&, so far, paintballshooter’s still snickering outtasight behind the bushes, waiting for someone’s pet quail to stroll out into the open…
u sure that was pinochet?
i guess there’s more than one way to trace lineage tw different administrations, huh?!
dangwhatalosstohumanity…
Siun @ 125
I’m sure I’m not the first one to say I hate Meeses to pieces.
Good morning, Christy. Sorry I didn’t respond sooner but I got sidetracked by my bout with stomach flu. (Probably more than you wanted to know, huh?)
Rayne @ 20
Speaking of Walmart… They’re marketing a new video game, “Left Behind: Eternal Forces,” based on the apocalyptical Left Behind books. Quoting Oberon in one of my Wiccan lists:
“Gamers are charged with creating Christian militias who roam the streets of New York City, looking to convert non-believers and killing those who they are unable to draw to their side. In fact, after particularly bloody battles, players must use prayer to recharge their “soul points” that have been diminished by the killing.
Most disturbing is the game’s apparent attempt at religious indoctrination – aimed at children and focused on violent, divisive, and hateful scenarios.”
If you wish to join in the campaign to let Walmart know that you oppose their marketing such a product, you can do so here: http://ga3.org/campaign/tell_w…..urr58nei5?
I’d love to see an elgatonegro comment on meese….
fahrender @ 127
the british public have held their noses and voted for blair. they HATE how he is fuckwad’s poodle. they will welcome somebody new who will ignore what our brainless twit is doing/not doing. the only reason that “labor” is still in power is the total haplessness of the tory party.
All true, but the distinction between “New Labour” (”Let’s call ourselves Labour but act like Maggie Thatcher!”) and “Old Labour” (liberals) shouldn’t be lost in their. Maybe the Brits will have some luck purging New Labour from the system after Blair leaves…the same as we could stand to do with the DLC/Blue Dog crowds.
I don’t believe that Bush is stupid either..He is of above average intelligence- and probably has some skills in the area of manipulation and bullying..
What he lacks is incredible
He lacks the ability to concentrate for a long enough period of time to get to the underlying nature of a situation, to determine it’s causes, and to come up with appopriate solutions..
This weakness affects his ability to lead- if someone came to him with a complete and perfectg analysis- he wouldn’t be able to distinguish it from ten thousand words of total bullshit- he can’t hold his breath long enough to stay under water and get to the bottom of things..
He also doesn’t have the analytical skills to ask appropriate questions- to demand clear thinking- or to lead a group to a workable decision..
Therefore- the group learns that:
Whoever gets to him first gets their plan approved-
It doesn’t matter how good their thinking is- it only matters if it is bold- contains some of Clusterfuck’s favorite words- and is SHORT
He would ALWAYS prefer to do something half assed now rather than to figure out a better solution..
Once he makes a decision- he loses interest in it. He has NO DESIRE to follow up and see whether what he decided is working- or if it is even being done…
He doesn’t realize that the decision is where the work BEGINS- not where it ends..
For all these reasons- any organization that he is in charge of will inevitably fail.
egregious, retirin’ in five — thanks for the wishes!
jeffreyw — here, let’s play a little game:
Or maybe this one:
Richard Perle really does have a sigular perspective; too bad it’s only from a Likud point of view.
TeddySanFran @ 128
Oh, there’s no doubt that much of the world’s ills derive from an over influx of testosterone. But, here too is this and I’ll apologize to Shaw because I’m too lazy to find the quote, “The resonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man persists in adapting his environment to himself. Therefore; all progress is due to the unreasonable man.”
Condi will be person of the year– for beating the odds of probability and accomplishing absolutely NOTHING in six years and in two positions.
Do you realize what the odds are against that?
johnSwifty @ 136
As is most catastrophe.
rwcole @ 135
Sounds like a doofus to me!
rwcole @ 137
Depends on who she’s working for, doesn’t it.
with jr. in full “cry”, pinochet just brought things around to complete the circle?
ain’t no rhyme, but something somewhere just dinged.
please tell me it’s too early to recycle history just yet…
The DLC is a tumor on my party.
Eli @ 141
Condi’s immediate supervisor and his supervisor: the Crown Princes of FUBAR.
Adie @ 142
Surely you don’t mean an angel got his wings!
rwcole @ 135
I’ve wrestled with this question for a long time, and I think he’s mentally defective. He was never that bright, nor interested in school (let us not forget that this tendency extends well back into grade school, by all accounts). He may once have been of mildly above average intelligence, but not after twenty-five years of intensive boozing and likely cocaine use.
I think he’s damaged goods and every attempt to acquaint him with reality is a threat to the facade he’s built up around himself. He’s not just stupid, he’s a warped personality, too.
He hasn’t failed at every job he’s had just because of bad luck….
Hugh @ 110
“looking at life through a rear view mirror”
marshall mccluhan
TeddySanFran @ 144
I’ve been reading Kabbalah, daemons have wings too.
I hope that some day someone finds out why Clusterfuck quit flyin with the TANG…
The true answer to that question will, I believe, explain much about his presidency…
I’ll guess he became afraid of it.
I just don’t take anything Condi Rice says seriously. Looks as though Cheney never did either. And that’s what really counts.
TeddySanFran @ 145
*S-K-A-W-U-I-S-HHH-!*
OMG! Those were wings?!
wellll. that warn’t no angel!
rwcole @ 148
From what I was ever able to tell, it may have been connected to his hobbyist’s interest in South American herbal remedies.
montag @ 147
Fetal alcohol syndrome.
Plus dropped on head.
Plus emotionally stunted when Poppy & Bar withdrew emotionally upon death of sister.
I vote to make the Lebanese, the Afhganis, and the Iraqis “People of the Year” — opposite a group picture of Bush/Cheney/Rumy/Rice
Puma- well that at least explains why he didn’t take his physical- but he quit flying well ahead of that- and was scheduled for “trainer” flyin with another pilot- for some reason- why?
rwcole @ 149
One reporter asked him, when he was thinking about running for president, if the rumors were true that he had crashed a plane on landing. He didn’t say yes, he didn’t say no. In his typical fashion, he only said, “where’s the plane?”
There’s a guy who has spent most of his life learning how to evade the truth about himself. He did the same thing all through the campaign–lying by evasion.
My battery dies…must…make…one…more…point. Junior is a classic Freudian case of Oedipal complex in many regards, but I think the drug use and narcissism have warped that frame as well. That the rest of America did not see that (or was not given to see that) is the true tragedy — not just for us — but for the world.
Peace friends. Later!
EvilDrPuma @ 153
“Some speculate” he scared hisself but good flyin’ high. And quit when testing was implemented.
TeddySanFran @ 153
ouch ouch ouch & amen!
rwcole @ 136
in other words, he’s not stupid. he’s a fucking IDIOT!
rwcole @ 154
Maybe he just didn’t feel like it any more. All those commoners giving him orders and stuff.
Montag–Hmm- I hadn’t heard that one- that WOULD explain the whole fuckin mess rather nicely.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 142
I’ve been looking for a phrase that describes my feelings about the DLC, and this one nails it.
Why is it I don’t see a certain Senator from NY appearing on the Sunday talking brain shows?
Well, off topic, I see where Augusto Pinochet has died. I would like to take this opportunity to extend my condolences to his family and to the people of Chili.
While not quite achieving the humanitarian status of say…Mohandas Ghandi, he was, in his outspoken and clearly-defined opinions, a worthy representative of the longing for downtrodden Latinos everywhere, for status and respect.
Across the Grand Canyon…make that the roadside ditch…of my personal disagreements with he and his supporters being a bit careless with the use of firearms, electricity, and power tools, on their countrymen, I would just like to say, that he will be missed. :o)
witchywoman @ 162
The Democratic Party needs a doctor.
ALL the people who don’t agree with me are tumors on my party.
fahr- Yeah “idiot” probably covers it pretty well…
Have there been ANY echoes or commentary or responses to Dana Milbank?
enhancements: tsf
johnSwifty @ 157
NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooojohnnnnnnnn—…—…—…sssssssssssssssssssssss
*idget idgit idjet id id id*
rwcole @ 169
he has absolutely no capacity for reflection, and no humility …..
Yes, this will be good to watch. And while we’re eating all that popcorn, let’s really concentrate on putting pressure on Congress to get the troops out of Iraq in 2007. I intend, beginning with the first day of the new Congress on 1/4/07 to email and/or call each of my senators and my congressional representative every single day with a simple message:
I will sign the mesage with my real name and address and I will send or call it in each and every day until they get our kids out of there. I urge everyone here to do the same. It’s not much effort, but if we all did that, and did it consitently every day, I think it would send a very powerful message.
We all only have three congressional representatives, two senators and a congressperson. 3 – 15 second phone calls, 3 emails. That’s all it takes. Easy to do while we wallow in our schadenfeude.
In for a penny, in for a pound.
The ISG Report is allowing the Republicans to divorce themselves from Cheney/Bush.
But poor Tony isn’t so smart. Instead of embracing the ISG and giving himself breathing room, he cuddled up and gave Bush a Heimlich hug. Now he’s going to go down in flames with the Shrub. The ISG Report will be snapped up by the Blair opposition, as well. People with brains know that it’s a ticket on which to divorce themselves from abject failure and to keep the stain of failed policy at a distance.
My impression is President is nothing more than an overindulged, and overindulgent spoiled brat. I see his type everyday in the school in which I teach. He’s quite common, actually.
fahrender @ 171
In his first inaugural speech, he said we would be a “humble” nation. I think his speechwriters confused humble and humiliated….
Oklahoma kiddo @ 175
common as a weed …..
1. Jeane Kirkpatrick
2. Auguste Pinochet
Good things come in threes, right?
TeddySanFran @ 177
Meaning that Henry Kissinger dies of loneliness now that his friends are gone?
Tanbark – that was very good – done us proud
o.k. my friends, time for me to head for the land of nod. i hope it won’t be the sleep of reason ….
DLC:
Former chairs
President Bill Clinton
Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana
Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut
Rep. Dave McCurdy of Oklahoma
Sen. John Breaux of Louisiana
Sen. Sam Nunn of Georgia
Sen. Charles Robb of Virginia
Former House Democratic Leader Rep. Richard Gephardt of Missouri.
“humble” and “humiliated” have the same root..
I guess if ya get humiliated enough- ya end up humble.
Back on topic: Kiddo, about your question about Hillary taking a cue from junior, and “bunkering down”…her problem is that as recently as a few weeks ago, she was hawking the “stay the course” snakeoil for junior, and now that those “terrists” in the ISG, led by DaddyBush’s bestest bud, James Baker, have snuck in and set the bushCo carny tent on fire, she’s got some fences to mend.
And they can’t be mended by having to answer some tough questions about “how now, triangulating cow?”
Best to lay low, watch the poll numbers (in a courageous, leader-like way…) and see which way the wind is blowing. :o)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 174
but none a them ‘re preznint, yet.
let their enablers beware the shrub family parenterrifying example, lest similar results be – wrought – on humanity…..
TeddySanFran @ 177
;->
rwcole @ 182
Not if you’re one of the deluded aristocracy….
HIs ego writes checks it can’t cash & his overdrafts have always been covered by his enablers.
montag @ 175
humbled?
An example of Them
Of course, nothing has been stopped at all. Even 41, Baker and their ilk have bosses, be it the Trilateral Comm or a similar group.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 182
My problem with the DLC is its dedication to corporatism. At some point someone said “the Reblicans are eating our shorts because they have more money. They’re getting their money from big corporations. We need to get that corporation money. Let’s sell out to big corporations.”
A snippet from a description of what I suspect is Clusterfuck’s personality type:
General: ENFPs are both “idea”-people and “people”-people, who see everyone and everything as part of an often bizarre cosmic whole. They want to both help (at least, their own definition of “help”) and be liked and admired by other people, on bo th an individual and a humanitarian level. They are interested in new ideas on principle, but ultimately discard most of them for one reason or another.
Social/Personal Relationships: ENFPs have a great deal of zany charm, which can ingratiate them to the more stodgy types in spite of their unconventionality. They are outgoing, fun, and genuinely like people. As SOs/mates they are warm, affectionate (l ots of PDA), and disconcertingly spontaneous. However, attention span in relationships can be short; ENFPs are easily intrigued and distracted by new friends and acquaintances, forgetting about the older ones for long stretches at a time. Less mature ENFPs may need to feel they are the center of attention all the time, to reassure them that everyone thinks they’re a wonderful and fascinating person.
Kathryn, thank you.
And Teddy: “…Henry Kissinger dies of loneliness…”
New keyboard, please? :o)
New thread — thought everyone could use some fresh digs…
rwcole @ 169…I don’t think “idiot” can explain GWB. The analysis will go on for years but for now I think that he fits into the very rare category of “Stupid Psychopath”. GWB has been successful because Babs and Poppy covered up and cleaned up for him. What little of GWB’s pathologic behavior that has leaked out: blowing up frogs, branding people with hot coat hangers, mocking a woman before her execution etc. fits psychopath. I’m sure Babs covered up the really bad animal torture, the fire starting and the bed wetting. The stupid is already out in the open.
Let us not forget that sometimes the leader of a country leads his military to:
spy on the country’s own people
grab people off the streets and make them “disappear”
commit torture.
And let us not forget that the people of a country are able to
restore democracy
repeal past immunities that the guilty granted themselves
pursue justice.
Goodbye and good riddance . . .
. . .
. . .
. . .
August Pinochet.
witchywoman @ 189
That’s my problem with them as well, and it’s a big one. Corporate personhood is the single worst idea in post-Civil War American history, and its kissing cousin deregulation comes in second. These are exactly the wrong ideas for a progressive party with its eye on the general welfare.
new thread
Clusterfuck=DarkSpector Cluelessoul
when anyone loses the ability to be truly self critical, that person, or institutution or country or church or family has lost their moral center. It is that ability, the one of a well informed conscience, that determines whether anyone is part of the moral world. That world is made up of people who can look at any picture and see more than self interest, can see the lives impacted by a moral or immoral action. George Bush has no ability in that direction – none and that does not bode well for any of us. So, it is up to those who have been developed in such a way so was to be both self critical and self loving to take the reins. Jimmy Carter’s recent book is one in which he is being destroyed by critics, but his moral thinking could not be more on target. I have yet to hear George Bush say anything except fear and subtle hate mongering statements.
Hearts and minds? Of Republicans? Not much to win in either category.